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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-11-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 paramat rubenwardy please could you merge the 3 'offtopic' threads into one and rename it so that users are not confused?
00:00 rubenwardy I can't
00:00 paramat oh of course
00:00 paramat i'll ask c55
00:07 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
00:13 ThomasMonroe Happy Thanksgiving all!!
00:33 Megaf Happy thanks giving ThomasMonroe
00:33 Megaf but that was yesterday for me
00:33 ThomasMonroe hey Megaf
00:33 ThomasMonroe oh lol
00:33 Megaf Hi brother :)
00:34 Megaf [00:13:36] <ThomasMonroe> Happy Thanksgiving all!!
00:34 rubenwardy how big is thanksgiving? Compared to christmas dinners
00:34 Megaf 13 min late
00:35 ThomasMonroe hmm good question rubenwardy, I'd say just a littls bit bigger at my house
00:36 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:35:52: WARNING[Main]: Undeclared global variable "HUD_ENABLE_HUNGER" accessed at ...inMegafServer/bin/../mods/​hud_hunger/hud/builtin.lua:41
00:36 Megaf weird
00:36 Megaf I have hunger = false in world.mt
00:36 Shara I want to celebrate thanksgiving just because.
00:36 Megaf why is that error happening?
00:36 rubenwardy another excuse to have a roast dinner is good
00:36 ThomasMonroe Caleb could help you, he's looked at that code alot
00:36 rubenwardy I think that's what thanks giving is
00:36 Shara Exactly :D
00:36 ThomasMonroe lol I wouldnt be surprised rubenwardy
00:37 ThomasMonroe just because Thanksgiving is an "American" holiday doesn't mean you can't set a day aside to be thankful for what God has given you
00:38 rubenwardy well, it's literally a USA holiday due to the beginnings, right?
00:38 ThomasMonroe technically
00:38 * rubenwardy is an athiest, anyway
00:38 ThomasMonroe dude, you have waay more Faith that I do
00:38 ThomasMonroe than*
00:39 Shara Can still just be thankful in general :P
00:39 ThomasMonroe touche SHara
00:39 rubenwardy true
00:41 Megaf need some help testing. mt.megaf.info 30003
00:41 Megaf checking stability and stuff
00:41 ThomasMonroe ok
00:44 Megaf <ACTION> 2017-11-23 19:42:44: [Server] Megaf joins game. List of players: Megaf
00:44 Megaf ]Killed
00:44 Megaf Well
00:44 Megaf it seems like minetestserver is more memory hungry than ever
00:44 ThomasMonroe hnmm thats why it timed out for me
00:44 Megaf I used to run this on 256 MB of ram back in the day
00:45 Megaf ThomasMonroe, try again please
00:46 ThomasMonroe ok
00:46 Megaf ThomasMonroe, nevermind
00:46 Megaf minetestserver is eating 1 GB of RAM in less than two minutes
00:47 Shara I couldn't connect from stable client. Error message. Are you running current dev?
00:47 ThomasMonroe oh ok i gtg afk for about 15-20 anyways
00:47 Megaf Shara, I can't keep the server on long enough for me to connect
00:47 Megaf it east all ram
00:47 Shara Weird
00:47 rubenwardy how much RAM do you have?
00:47 Shara ANy idea what's doing it?
00:47 Megaf rubenwardy, 1 GB
00:47 rubenwardy heh
00:47 Megaf Shara, yep, bad quality control
00:48 shivajiva sfan5: works now, thanks :)
00:48 rubenwardy that's quite low, I'd decrease the block load range and cache size
00:48 Megaf again, back in the day, same set of mods, but Minetest 0.4.14 I could run it in 256 MB of RAM
00:48 rubenwardy we don't optimise for 1GB of RAM
00:48 Shara The lowest RAM I ever ran a server from was 4GB
00:48 Megaf actually with more RAM than I have today
00:48 Megaf I mean
00:48 Megaf more mods
00:48 rubenwardy if reducing the block loaded limit doesn't help, then there may be a bug
00:49 Megaf there's always a bug
00:49 Megaf but let me check my config first
00:49 rubenwardy true
00:49 Shara I have 8GB RAM now, but rarely see memory usage for MT over 20%
00:49 Megaf active_object_send_range_blocks = 1
00:49 Megaf active_block_range = 1
00:49 Megaf max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 4
00:49 Megaf server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 10
00:49 Megaf max_objects_per_block = 16
00:50 Megaf with those settings it shouldnt use much ram at all
00:50 rubenwardy oh interesting, there's only client_block_limit
00:50 rubenwardy * client_mapblock_limit
00:50 rubenwardy valgrind may be able to help with seeing where the memory all is
00:51 Megaf I wonder if any dev actually ever test their work
00:51 rubenwardy lol
00:51 Megaf on a real world thing, with mods and stuff
00:52 rubenwardy it would be good to have better QA
00:52 Shara How to get it better?
00:52 rubenwardy more unit tests
00:52 Megaf Mem:           1024        1016           0           0           7           0
00:52 Megaf Swap:          2048         306        1741
00:52 rubenwardy more testers
00:53 Shara If compiling without switching system wasn't hell, I'd probably test more things :)
00:53 rubenwardy :D
00:53 rubenwardy VM?
00:53 Megaf I love when VanessaE just decided to change everything on homedecor, again and again and again
00:53 Megaf every single homedecor update things break
00:53 Megaf <ERROR> 2017-11-23 19:53:07: [Server] Item "homedecor:ceiling_lantern" not defined at position (54,7,-11)
00:53 Megaf <ERROR> 2017-11-23 19:53:09: [Server] Item "homedecor:fence_wrought_iron" not defined at position (54,6,-12)
00:53 rubenwardy Minetest works in a VM quite well as long as you don't use guestadditions mouse
00:53 Shara Actually planning on trying to set something up once current looming deadlines are swatted down
00:54 rubenwardy we need to clone Fixer
00:54 Megaf <ERROR> 2017-11-23 19:54:02: [Server] Item "poisonivy:sproutling" not defined at position (47,6,-15)
00:54 Megaf <ERROR> 2017-11-23 19:54:04: [Server] Item "poisonivy:sproutling" not defined at position (54,5,-18)
00:54 Megaf same for plantlife/moretrees stuff
00:54 rubenwardy also, petition to rename Fixer to Tester
00:54 Shara I want to be able to test both Linux and Wndows side by side... because I am fairly sure I have found a couple of OS specific bugs
00:54 rubenwardy :)
00:54 Megaf VanessaE, you tehre?
00:55 rubenwardy some googling couldn't find any memory breakdown tools
00:55 rubenwardy there was a guide for XP
00:55 rubenwardy I'll keep looking, I probably just suck at googline
00:55 * Shara has found a really weird bug that seems to be windows only...
00:56 Megaf rubenwardy, somehow memory use dropped from 1+ GB to <200MB after a couple of minutes
00:56 Megaf Mem:           1024         182         808           0          32         824
00:56 Megaf Swap:          2048          50        1997
00:56 rubenwardy huh
00:56 rubenwardy that's odd
00:56 Megaf you are the dev...
00:56 rubenwardy were you online when it dropped?
00:57 Megaf yes sir
00:57 Megaf Shara, join please
00:57 Megaf ?
00:57 Megaf expect all VanessaE mods to be broken tho
00:58 * Shara tries
00:58 * Shara timed out
00:58 Megaf [pipeworks] pipeworks:refund_node_breaker_pick entry, nodename=pipeworks:nodebreaker_off
00:58 Megaf pipeworks broken too
00:59 Megaf Mem:           1024          81         927           0          15         928
00:59 Megaf Swap:          2048         154        1893
00:59 Megaf RAM use dropping more
00:59 Megaf going to swa
00:59 Megaf Shara, again
00:59 Shara On media this time
01:01 Megaf so basically server is getting ultra laggy when people join
01:01 Megaf I dont know if is worth trying to fix this server or just drop the world and start from scratch
01:02 Megaf Shara, 1060 KB auth.txt
01:06 Megaf Mem:           1024         110         878           0          34         896
01:06 Megaf Swap:          2048         188        1859
01:06 Megaf memory use under cotnrol
01:06 Megaf see?
01:06 Megaf My server runs well with 256 MB
01:06 Megaf I spent months optimizng this thing
01:08 Megaf rubenwardy, I have bones = keep
01:08 Megaf yet when I died I lost my inventory
01:08 Megaf in a box of bones
01:08 Megaf I have important admin tools
01:08 Megaf this is extremely dengerous
01:09 rubenwardy important admin tools should use the system in place for that
01:09 rubenwardy ...privileges
01:10 Shara I made my admin tools so that even if someone picks them up, on first attempted use they turn into something else
01:10 Megaf rubenwardy, not the point
01:11 Megaf why do devs are so quick in deviating the point and blaming something else?
01:11 Megaf I say, message doesnt say mod name, they say, you are doing it wrong, use --info
01:11 Megaf I say, bones = keep is not working
01:11 Megaf they say. Set privs for admin tool
01:11 Megaf common
01:12 Shara Megaf: privs for tool use is a good approach in general
01:12 Megaf I'm not saying it is or it isnt, I'm saying not the point now
01:14 Megaf now
01:14 Megaf hold on
01:14 Megaf I think it was my faiult
01:14 Megaf the bones thing :)
01:14 Megaf rubenwardy, sorry :P
01:15 Megaf Shara, bones was my fault
01:15 Shara :)
01:15 Megaf the high memory use on start up is an interesting issue tho
01:16 Megaf look, just restarted the server
01:16 Megaf Mem:           1024        1016           0           0           7           0
01:16 Megaf Swap:          2048         296        1751
01:16 Megaf Mem:           1024        1016           0           0           6           0
01:16 Megaf Swap:          2048         693        1354
01:16 Megaf keeps climbing
01:17 Megaf then suddenly
01:17 Megaf Mem:           1024         116         893           0          13         893
01:17 Megaf Swap:          2048          54        1993
01:17 Megaf I wonder if my compiling flags could cause that
01:18 Megaf well, good ngiht
01:19 Megaf and VanessaE, your mods are just brilliant. I love them and I am a big fan of your work. But you have to settle down on your mods structure. Please stop changing that.
01:21 Megaf Night folks. and well done so far in the backport-0.4. Just this spike of memory in the first start up should be investigated. I will have time for that in the weekend,
01:24 rubenwardy !tell Megaf didn't see that you set a setting
01:24 ShadowBot rubenwardy: O.K.
01:49 Sokomine joined #minetest-hub
01:50 Sokomine hi
01:50 Shara Hi Sokomine
02:51 benrob0329 paramat: the issue is starting to get ridiculous
02:52 benrob0329 It was supposed to be a helpful discussion, not an argument on the lore of Minecraft
02:53 paramat it is =)
02:53 ThomasMonroe lool
02:53 paramat best i stop posting there =)
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03:12 paramat c1ffisme irritates me and has done for years =}
05:41 FourFire Hello, I'm doingm y first mod, and my nodes spawn fine, but crash with this error when the drops are supposed to happen:
05:43 FourFire AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'nano' in callback node _on_dig ...minetest\bin\..\builtin\game\item.lua:197: bad
05:45 FourFire Here is my code: https://hastebin.com/ovunulupaj.js
05:45 FourFire Yes I am using MC2plus
05:57 benrob0329 FourFire: having part of an error message isnt much help
05:58 benrob0329 Could you pastebin the whole error?
06:22 FourFire benrob0329, https://hastebin.com/zufagobabe.tex
06:48 benrob0329 FourFire: remove the commented out line, and compress the table onto one line
06:48 benrob0329 For the drops
06:49 FourFire "drop = {items = {"nano:nano_clump"}, }"
06:49 FourFire I'll try that
06:49 benrob0329 FourFire: Remove the extra comma
06:49 benrob0329 Just }} at the end
06:50 FourFire Okay
06:50 benrob0329 (The cleaner the code, the less likely errors will happen)
06:50 FourFire I understand, Just don't know the syntax
06:51 benrob0329 I believe end commas are optional, its either they or dont have them on the last object at all
06:56 FourFire benrob0329, where can I find an up to date list of default nodes?
06:57 benrob0329 FourFire: in the default mod, nodes.lua
07:13 FourFire benrob0329, same problem
07:13 FourFire https://hastebin.com/mivowayala.tex
07:14 FourFire Code: https://hastebin.com/iwigilulis.coffeescript
07:17 FourFire Yay if I don't dig the node, the Node events still work
07:17 FourFire Now I just need to make conditions
07:18 benrob0329 FourFire: change drops to drop and make it a string
07:19 benrob0329 drop = "mymod:diamond_fragments"
07:19 FourFire drop = "nano:nano_clump"
07:19 FourFire okay
07:19 benrob0329 Yes
07:20 benrob0329 Too that from rubenwardy's modding book
07:20 benrob0329 So it should work
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07:22 FourFire It doesn't crash now, but not item drops either
07:25 benrob0329 FourFire: you'll have to ask someone else. Its like 2:30 in the morning and I dont have the MT api memorised
07:25 FourFire Thanks for your help!
07:25 benrob0329 Sorry, but hey it doesnt crash now :P
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07:51 FourFire With an ABM which is conditional on a specific adjacent node, How do I detect/grab the position of that node?
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09:40 RoaryTiger joined #minetest-hub
09:41 RoaryTiger Good morning everyone!
09:41 RoaryTiger Just finished my Java test. I think I didnt go too bad. Waiting for the results.
09:42 rubenwardy <3 Kotlin
09:43 rubenwardy I feel like I should just script my account to reply "<3 Kotlin" everytime Java is mentioned
09:44 RoaryTiger Why tho
09:45 rubenwardy Because it's almost my favourite language (or will be when Kotlin/Native is stable)
09:46 rubenwardy Kotlin/JVM is what Java should have been
09:46 rubenwardy not that you have much choice in a test
09:46 rubenwardy or at school/college
09:50 RoaryTiger Alright
09:52 FourFire Hey can anyone help me with ABMs?
09:52 RoaryTiger rubenwardy, ^
09:53 Megaf FourFire, You will help yourself a lot if you just ask your question
09:53 Megaf anyone reading who can help will help
09:53 FourFire My ABM is conditional on adjacent node of a certain type. I'm trying to replace the node which activates the ABM with my modblock
09:54 FourFire I've looked through your tutorial rubenwardy, and it doesn't tell me what I need
09:54 rubenwardy you'll have to search the neighbours
09:54 FourFire I have implemented your ABM, and it does work with my mod block.
09:54 rubenwardy theres a minetest.find_node_in_area for that
09:55 Lukc joined #minetest-hub
09:55 FourFire Neat.
09:56 Megaf Shara, rubenwardy, can you please add Lukc to the voice list?
09:56 FourFire I'll work on that, meanwhile can you tell me how ABMs can have multiple conditions to activate?
09:56 rubenwardy Hi Lukc
09:56 Lukc _o/
09:56 Megaf Lukc is a Minetest veteran too :P
09:56 FourFire How does that look in code?
09:56 rubenwardy was about to ask that
10:28 FourFire rubenwardy, What is the correct use of that function, this is my code: https://hastebin.com/bewoniquwo.lua
10:29 rubenwardy it returns a list of position
10:29 rubenwardy so you want to loop through and set them
10:29 rubenwardy or only set the first
10:30 rubenwardy depends how you want to deal with there being more than one such neighbout
10:30 rubenwardy depends how you want to deal with there being more than one such neighbour
10:30 FourFire Yes, only the firsmt the script will run again and get the next one later if there's multiple
10:30 rubenwardy so coal_xyz[1] instead of {coal_xyz}
10:30 FourFire how do I set the first position only, pass it onto the minetest.set_node function?
10:31 FourFire Ah that makes sense
10:31 FourFire it works!
10:31 FourFire But crashes too, lol
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10:45 FourFire rubenwardy, I changed my references and tried it on the MT base subgame it's much more stable and works. How do I make an ABM have multiple conditions?
10:46 FourFire I have an integer Energy_stored I want it to be > 0 before my block is allowed to copy itself
11:23 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=301254#p301254
11:23 rubenwardy there's joke about this, but I feel like it's a bit inappropriate for the forums
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11:35 FourFire rubenwardy, something about gay powers?
11:35 FourFire There's a joke in there somewhere
11:35 rubenwardy lol
11:36 rubenwardy I was going to comment on fitting large things (Minetest) in tight environments (RPi)
11:36 FourFire My mod seems to crash when i use "print(variable)" inside ABMs
11:36 rubenwardy oh dear
11:36 rubenwardy try   print(dump(variable))
11:36 FourFire ok
11:36 rubenwardy dump converts anything to a string, no matter the type
11:37 rubenwardy print only supports things that are immediately convertable to a string, so not tables or nil
11:37 FourFire hmm it should be an interger
11:38 FourFire Should I specify "local float var" when i declare it?
11:38 rubenwardy no, lua doesn't have types
11:38 rubenwardy well
11:38 rubenwardy explicit types
11:38 FourFire Ok
11:38 rubenwardy so just local var
11:38 FourFire what are the differences between local and global?
11:38 rubenwardy global is accessible anywhere
11:38 rubenwardy and so could be overwritten by other mods
11:39 rubenwardy and is a memory leak if you never use it again
11:39 FourFire if I declare a local inside an ABM, will it be accessible to anything within my script, or just things inside that ABM?
11:39 rubenwardy the local is only usable in the scope it's defined. So in a function, it'll only be accessible inside that function and any functions declared in that function
11:40 rubenwardy you can put a local in a file
11:40 rubenwardy in which case it's accessible by the whole file
11:40 FourFire Ok, I'll just declare everything at the start then
11:40 rubenwardy "New 5 star rating for Minetest: This game is like Minecraft"
11:40 FourFire hmm how do I store data that isn't node specific?
11:41 FourFire I understand that nodes can store metadata, but let's say I have my energy integer which is supposed to be valid for a whole group of nodes, not just one in particular
11:42 FourFire How do I store that upon world save?
11:43 Krock don't. delay it to spread the load
11:44 FourFire what?
11:45 Krock when the world is saved, i.e. all `server_map_save_interval` seconds, the disk will be busy, causing lag. best is to delay that by a second or two
11:45 Megaf So I lost my mouse somewhere, inside my backpack
11:46 FourFire Ok that's fine, but how do I actually do it, in Lua?
11:46 FourFire how do I save a value that isn't assigned to a specific node?
11:47 Krock local interval = tonumber(minetest.settings:get​("server_map_save_interval")) minetest.after(interval + 2, my_function)
11:47 rubenwardy mod_storage
11:47 Krock my_function will be called without any arguments after interval + 2 seconds after the world has started
11:47 Krock yeah, there's also mod_storage which allows you to save it any time
11:48 rubenwardy local storage = minetest.get_mod_storage()    -- in iniit.lua, not in a function
11:48 rubenwardy then later on     storage:set_string("key", "value")
11:48 rubenwardy and storage:get_string()
11:48 rubenwardy and storage:get_string("key")
11:49 rubenwardy is related to the world
11:49 rubenwardy not to a particular player or node
11:49 rubenwardy and you don't need to worry about map_save_interval
11:49 rubenwardy oh, and mod storage is more private, so you don't need to worry about conflicts with other mod
11:49 rubenwardy +s
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12:24 Megaf Guys, I just realized Irrlicht ships with libjpeg and libpng
12:24 Megaf And they are compiled when we build Irrlicht
12:25 Megaf Can I just use libpng and libjpeg from Irrlicht instead of having to install from repos?
12:25 Krock I think so but they might be somewhat outdated
12:26 Megaf I'm not sure those are the source codes for libpng and libjpeg tho
12:26 sfan5 you don't have to link to libjpeg & libpng separately if your irrlicht build includes this
12:27 sfan5 i know the CMake configuration requires it but you don't need to
12:27 Megaf Irrlicht/source/Irrlicht/jpeglib/ and Irrlicht/source/Irrlicht/libpng/
12:27 Megaf sfan5, oh, that's interesting
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12:28 Megaf And it makes sense
12:29 Megaf How to I overwrite the variable that says libpng os REQUIRED in cmake?
12:29 Megaf just varname=value cmake ?
12:29 Krock comment it out
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12:32 RoaryTiger [12:29:43] <Krock> comment it out
12:32 RoaryTiger [12:30:18] <Megaf> Often when I edit code in cmake will flag the build as -dirty
12:32 sfan5 that's a feature
12:33 Megaf I wonder if editing CMakeList will cause a -dirty flag to be set
12:33 Megaf and can't we use the dirty flag as a detection for hacked CSM clients?
12:34 Krock even my regular development builds seem to be dirty.. who cares?
12:35 sfan5 Megaf: when you suggest something to counter "hacked" clients ask yourself: can the client lie to the server about this?
12:35 rubenwardy lol
12:35 rubenwardy let's not start this again
12:35 Megaf sfan5, not every "hacker" will "care" about that
12:36 sfan5 that's a different question and irrelevant
12:36 Megaf It's just something to make the thing slightly less easy...
12:36 Krock rubenwardy, too late
12:36 Megaf It was just a question tho
12:36 sfan5 if the client can lie about it it's not a security measure, the end.
12:36 Fixer not this again
12:36 Fixer sfan5: +1
12:36 * Megaf stopped already
12:37 Fixer the only way is server-side anticheat, end of story
12:37 Krock or proprietary software
12:37 Megaf that ^
12:38 Megaf but we are not going that way
12:38 Megaf :)
12:43 Megaf yep, if you just make irrlicht it will build libpng and libjpeg
12:43 Megaf that alone could bring some performance improvements, couldnt it?
12:43 sfan5 not really
12:45 Megaf I'm trying to understand why would it bring performance improvement I can't see how.
12:45 Megaf maybe could just make the loading of textures a little faster. I don't know really
12:47 Megaf battery low, see you later
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13:09 nerzhul Krock, proprietary software doesn't mean no cheat, but harder cheat :p
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13:33 Fixer yeah
13:40 FourFire rubenwardy, Okay print(dump(int)) doesn't seem to work ingame
13:40 FourFire I'm intending to print to the chat
13:41 FourFire Second, more importantly, how can I add a second condition for the ABM to run?
13:43 lisac FourFire, print() prints to the terminal
13:43 lisac try minetest.chat_send_all(dump(int)) if you want it to be sent to all players ingame.
13:47 FourFire lisac, that doesn't seem to work...
13:49 FourFire Ah now it works, thanks lisac
13:53 FourFire Minetest is amazingly optimized
13:53 FourFire My whole world is literally being eaten and I'm only on 10-17% CPU usage
13:54 Krock you can't rely on the CPU usage, as we only use one core
13:55 Krock the performance could be better, most likely
13:55 FourFire On a quad core CPU, 25%= 1 core
13:56 FourFire I have the i5 5675C it has a large "128MB L4 Cache"
14:10 Krock L4? Also works quite well with 2x 6 MiB L2 cache (no L3, L4)
14:24 FourFire Krock, how do I make an if statement work with an ABM?
14:25 Krock if condition then print("works") end
14:25 FourFire Krock, this is my code https://hastebin.com/odugukerib.lua
14:26 Krock I think you didn't quite understand what register_abm does
14:26 Krock and when this code is actually called
14:27 Krock the first line will be called as soon the mod gets loaded by Minetest on start
14:27 FourFire You're right I don't
14:28 Krock the function register_abm will - obviously - register an ABM, which triggers its "action" function after a while in-game
14:28 FourFire Wait, so "action" is a variable?
14:28 Krock so it'll be called once per second for each node (I think)
14:29 FourFire I can call just the variable instead of all that code?
14:29 Krock no, action is a function that you defined like the chance field
14:29 Krock how do you call a variable that isn't a function?
14:29 FourFire yes, sorry, but I can call the function just by typing "action" ?
14:30 Krock no, you can't call that function. Minetest does that for you
14:30 Krock and if it does, the code within that function (line 10) will be executed
14:30 FourFire Okay, then is there some way to add that > 0 condition to the ABM itself?
14:30 Krock yes, just do it like you said. move it there
14:31 Krock into the "action" function
14:32 FourFire This should work right: https://hastebin.com/wamewusixu.lua ?
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14:35 sfan5 kind of
14:35 Krock yeah, but define Energy_stored above the registration, so it knows that it's either a loacl or global variable
14:36 Krock and it'll be quite spammy once it reached 0
14:36 FourFire I have
14:36 FourFire That's fine I just have that for testing purposes
14:37 Krock I'm not a Lua compiler who can tell you whether this will run just fine in your world, so just try it
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15:43 lisac FourFire, dump() just converts storage types into a string
15:43 lisac no need to do dump("some text")
15:43 lisac but if you have, for example, an array of strings, then you do need it
15:44 ThomasMonroe ok I just saw the Black tulip and green chrysanthemum PR for MTG
15:45 ThomasMonroe would it be a bad idea for the black tulips to be added to the "lore" for the game?
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17:04 Mr_Pardison Issue with boats.
17:04 Mr_Pardison When you are on one, it doesn't let you do /spawn or /home.
17:05 Mr_Pardison I'm bringing this up as a player that gets stuck in quicksand can't escape it unless they can back out of it.
17:14 Krock asme issue with carts btw
17:15 Krock that's called attachment and it's supposed to work like that
17:15 Mr_Pardison RIP them if they can't escape.
17:15 Krock i.e. fixed position, relative to the parent object
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18:21 Shara Hello all :)
18:22 Mr_Pardison Mew, traveling one.
18:22 Shara Mew, Mr P. :)
18:24 Mr_Pardison so, still haven't fixed my computer but I might buy the one that my sister has as it doesn't work anymore (at least the battery doesn't but that's a simple fix).
18:24 Mr_Pardison Still going to install Fedora on it.
18:30 Raven262 Hi Shara
18:33 Mr_Pardison well, g2g now.
18:33 Mr_Pardison cya
18:33 Mr_Pardison left #minetest-hub
18:34 lisac hey https://youtu.be/2boY_CsDHIY
18:35 lisac ^ Smooth progressbars
18:35 lisac Just finished it
18:35 lisac what do you think?
18:39 Shara lisac: interesting, but what practical use would it have?
18:39 Shara (not saying there is none, but curious)
18:39 lisac um...
18:39 lisac it looks cool.
18:39 Shara Hah
18:39 lisac I could make the default furnace use it. :)
18:39 Shara Find a use!
18:39 Krock 60 formspecs per second?
18:39 lisac Krock, actually refreshes every 0.01s
18:39 Shara Ouch
18:39 Krock 100 fpps
18:40 lisac yeah
18:40 Krock * fsps
18:40 Raven262 Its smoooth
18:40 lisac it has a configurable timestep. :)
18:40 Raven262 Its ugly if it isn't smoooooth though
18:40 lisac it also has this weird issue where you can't close the formspec while that is running. :P
18:41 lisac gotta fix that, too
18:41 Shara So it's interesting, but still not a proof of useful CSM :P
18:41 Raven262 God of formspecs considers it heresy to do so.
18:42 * Shara does not want to think of there being a god of formspecs
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19:14 lisac Shara, it's not nesessarily CSM
19:14 lisac It can be run server-side
19:14 lisac it would just be slow.
19:14 Raven262 Like lisac.
19:14 lisac :(
19:14 Raven262 Okay, he is a bit faster.
19:14 Krock joined #minetest-hub
19:15 Raven262 Wb Krock
19:17 Krock ty
19:17 Shara lisac: I wouldn't want to touch something with that frequency of updates on server :P
19:18 lisac After visiting the top servers, I'd think server admins love the lag. :)
19:18 lisac https://pastebin.com/uPKaU8f7
19:18 lisac it's pretty proof-of-concept-y
19:20 Shara Which are even the top servers?
19:20 lisac first 10 or so http://servers.minetest.net/
19:21 Shara They change all the time though
19:21 lisac yeah
19:21 Shara But no, we don't love lag
19:21 lisac but it's mostly just CTF, Darklands, Xanadu
19:21 lisac and Just test
19:21 lisac others come and go
19:21 Shara I still don't get how DL outranks RC so often
19:22 Shara At least at the moment DL has the higher average (usually doesn't), but it loses in everything else.
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19:23 lisac 563 people playing MT right now, online.
19:24 Shara There we go.. RC lost players and leapt up the list
19:24 lisac tripe that for daily number
19:24 Shara RC seems to lose rank when it has more than 20 for some reason...
19:26 IhrFussel There are FAR too many servers for those few hundred players ... it's more or less a luck game to get players onto your server
19:26 Shara I wouldn't say it's just luck
19:26 Shara RC built up slowly over time. DL got busy because RC players wanted survival, but wanted to stay on my servers
19:27 IhrFussel Mobile players will choose the server that's top-most at the moment...if they fail to connect to it they try the 2nd best etc etc is my guess
19:27 Shara Not sure how it works with mobile users
19:27 Shara But you would still need to get up the list for that to kick in
19:29 IhrFussel My server is (arguably) more unique than 90% of the other servers and it still doesn't get many players... we treat players fair and content isn't short either ... and the server is still not nearly as popular as some others
19:30 Shara Fussel: you seem to be doing reaosnably well these days though
19:30 lisac IhrFussel, I'm going to be honest here, your server looks a bit... complicated.
19:30 lisac I can't follow the chat
19:30 lisac due to all random messages
19:31 lisac mods seem randomly scrapped together without any unique style
19:31 lisac I also have a dislike for HD textures.
19:31 lisac now I'm not saying it's bad, and it's probably better then some servers.
19:31 lisac and I'm sure a lot of players, including my younger brother, like it.
19:31 IhrFussel Even if you ignore the mintesthosting.com ones which can't be popular cause of mod/player limit, most servers are pretty dead and there are just a few "lucky" ones that get all those player waves
19:32 Raven262 Odd thing is, though, that HD textures are exactly the thing that kids like.
19:32 Raven262 For some reason.
19:32 Shara I like.. I guess something in the middle.
19:32 Shara I've yet to see any MT textures I would really call HD to be honest
19:32 IhrFussel I have no HD textures...my textures are fanatasy-styled and they are 32x32
19:32 Shara 32*32 would be what I favour
19:32 Raven262 Thats still HD
19:32 Shara I don't really like the 16*16 that MTG insists on
19:33 Shara Raven, it's really not
19:33 IhrFussel 32x32 is only twice the default...try a 512x512 pack
19:33 Raven262 4 times the defaul
19:33 Raven262 *t
19:33 lisac IhrFussel, Shara: I find higher then 16x16 resolution textures to look out of place in minetest
19:34 Raven262 And, yes i would like to see a good texture pack in minetest, but they are all too bright for me.
19:34 Shara lisac: possibly because you are seeing weird blends of different detail levels
19:34 IhrFussel Well players are free to use their own TP on servers...nobody can deny it
19:34 Raven262 I used the default textures, once. :P
19:37 IhrFussel And I agree that my server *once* was a mess...cause I wasn't really sure what I wanted it to be...part of my playerbase wanted creative, other part wanted survival...I was torn between the two... but now I decided I go full "light survival" ... the mods are just optional, additional content...more options is always better
19:37 Shara Not always
19:37 IhrFussel If the choice is per-player then yes I'd say 100%
19:39 IhrFussel One problem I have is that my server content is of course quite demanding...and a cheap Android phone with under 1 GB RAM will likely crash before the user even joins
19:39 IhrFussel And most clone apps don't have any kind of settings to reduce effects
19:41 IhrFussel I can only tell them to try a device restart...but that doesn't always help of course
19:42 Shara not much you can do about it really
19:42 IhrFussel Shara, regarding the doing well these days: It's very very random how much players I get...
19:43 lisac Hey can we load textures in CSM?
19:43 IhrFussel Sometimes I suddenly get hit by 20+ at once ... other times the server is dead for many hours
19:44 Shara lisac: why not just use a texture pack?
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19:46 Krock IhrFussel, busy servers become more popular, empty ones have a hard life
19:47 Shara Look after the players you get. Build a good team. Be fair, but do follow and enforce your own rules. And mostly be patient. Very very patient.
19:48 Shara Seems to be the way to get an active server that isn't just app users who don't speak
19:51 IhrFussel Krock, my server was #1 most of the time last year ... I didn't change the way I handle my server since but most of them found other servers...so it's more a question about loyalty
19:52 IhrFussel Newer servers popped up, my active players tried them and many moved over ... I call that a form of betrayal but whatever
19:52 Shara Odd that I never saw it as #1. I used to at least check most high ranking servers at around that time.
19:53 IhrFussel I had the data to back my claim up...daily active unique users went up to 800 in Oct/Nov/Dec
19:53 IhrFussel 800 is a lot
19:54 IhrFussel My server was never empty there were at least 5 online at all times...even at night in US/EU
19:55 Shara It's not about needing to back it up, though I do very much doubt you were #1 most of the time
19:55 IhrFussel It was a bit of a phenomenom cause my server wasn't really popular during summer...it got extremely full in fall
19:56 IhrFussel Maybe you checked the server list at the wrong times...my server was always in top 10
19:56 IhrFussel And you should know how much servers jump
19:57 Shara Top 10 is quite different from "#1 most of the time"
19:57 IhrFussel I even had some players telling me that we are #1 (without asking them to check)
19:58 IhrFussel Shara, you are only #1 for 5 minutes if you have bad luck but you still were #1 in the list... like I said servers jump a lot and no server stays #1 for hours
19:58 Shara I haven't said you weren't there for five minutes
19:59 Shara And CTF currently begs to differ on your last point
19:59 IhrFussel The algorithm to calculate the "server score" is flawed and we need a better one that is more consistent ... and there are 2 issues about it I think...or maybe just 1 and a very big complaint in the IRC log
20:00 Shara I'm the first to agree it's messy, but at the moment I'd actually prefer my servers ranked lower
20:00 IhrFussel I doubt that the server stays #1 for hours without dropping once
20:00 Shara AFK
20:02 IhrFussel paramat commented on my issue that we need a way to give each active server some spotlight kind of ... but those probably were just empty words
20:02 IhrFussel Also CTF servers in general are extremely popular so not comparabe to survival servers
20:03 IhrFussel comparable*
20:15 Fixer IhrFussel: disagree with you, there just one active CTF server
20:21 IhrFussel Fixer, rubenwardy himself said that CTF servers in general seem to be the most popular ones ... he basically said "just name your server CTF and it will get players"
20:21 rubenwardy well
20:22 rubenwardy for some reason it seems I have to make it
20:22 Fixer there is like 4 CTF servers, and only one is popular and has most of players, others are pretty much inactive
20:22 rubenwardy there are two others on the list which were pretty low
20:23 Calinou mobile clients just feel a natural attraction to anything with rubenwardy's name on it
20:23 IhrFussel Players likely choose the one on top...it is the exact same for every other server...if your server is down somewhere you can only hope that some players will scroll down and join yours to have a chance at the top
20:23 Calinou time to open a store, "rubenwardy's cakes"
20:25 IhrFussel My server sometimes is in the LAST 10 ... but luckily my playerbase is large enough so that it's guaranteed it will jump higher sooner or later
20:27 Shara ESP CTF used to be busy, but it's laggy and not moderated well.
20:27 Shara Unless we fix it, it has no reason to be busy
20:28 IhrFussel I'm not sure how other new servers land in the top 10 ... maybe some form of advertising or they are just very lightweight so no mobile players timeout which means more players will join soon after
20:28 rubenwardy luck
20:29 Shara DL was straight into the top ten really, and that happened because it had players ready and waiting for it before it was even open
20:30 Shara Some people bring a group of players with them
20:30 IhrFussel That's possible too...create a community before you open your server
20:30 Shara I even did that to a smaller extent with RC.
20:31 IhrFussel But if a top 10 server suddenly crashes, some players will think the server won't be available anytime soon -> look for new one
20:32 sfan5 i'm not exactly sure what you mean but i imagine players are quite "loyal" to their server
20:32 rubenwardy I find lots of players spam the reconnect button
20:32 rubenwardy it's when it's done for more than a minute they give up
20:33 Shara Same experience as rubenwardy
20:33 sfan5 not necessarily because they like the who runs the server in which ways, but simply because it has their buildings they have invested time into
20:33 Shara For me, if RC especially goes down, I tend to find a lot of players join the IRC channel to find out what's happening, and they amuse themselves there until it's back
20:33 IhrFussel sfan5, they will not try infinite times...maybe 2 or 3 times but if the server takes longer to reboot then they will very likely go somewhere else *for the time being*
20:33 Shara Fussel: I know you are against an IRC connection, but it actually helps a lot for things like this
20:34 IhrFussel And that's what populates less popular servers then for example
20:35 IhrFussel Honestly it just takes 1 player to leave the bottom (at least in my case) ... if that 1 player stays for a bit the server already jumps quite a bit higher
20:35 Shara Isn't that to be expected though?
20:35 Shara I mean.. the admin themself can just play more to escape 0
20:35 sfan5 players are the main factor in ranking so yes
20:36 Shara A server that always has 0 means even the admin doesn't play there, and if the admin doesn't play their own server, why should I?
20:36 IhrFussel Yes I didn't say it was wrong behavior...I just mean it's *pretty* easy to jump somewhere to the top with 2-3 players
20:37 Shara sfan5: Is there any reason RC randomly seems to rank lower when it gets over 20 players? It's not always consistent, but it does seem to drop sharply when it gets to 22+, then rises again when it falls under 20
20:37 sofar over 20 gets penalized
20:37 IhrFussel Not top 10 but somewhere close to that ... so if a top 10 server is not available for a bit the chance is high that players might check out your server
20:37 Shara I've checked the names with numbers, and that doesn't seem to be a factor
20:37 IhrFussel Over 16 gets penalized
20:37 Shara sofar: why such penalities?
20:38 IhrFussel 17 players = 1 player
20:38 sofar I just read the code
20:38 sofar it subtracts points as player count gets higher
20:38 Shara RC just dropped from 22 to 15 and now it's back in 2nd place
20:39 Shara I don't care about th eposition so much either way, just interested in the reasoning
20:39 sofar ITB consistently ranks 30-40th
20:39 sofar lol
20:39 IhrFussel To distribute players more
20:40 IhrFussel Basically a server with 20+ players is not in need for more players
20:40 Shara Yet it's still the busiest grouping of servers at the top anyway
20:40 Shara rubenwardy might disagree, but it's not like CTF needs more players right now :D
20:41 rubenwardy I just realised the limit went up, oops. Back to 40
20:41 IhrFussel If a server has 50 players it means to the server list it has 30 I think...so being still at the top after all penalties is possible
20:41 Shara hah
20:42 IhrFussel Maybe server with extremely amounts of players hould get penalized more
20:42 Shara Maybe it explains why DL is often so high. It's probably often sitting at 16
20:42 IhrFussel should*
20:42 Shara I know above that it can start to refuse connections
20:42 IhrFussel 20 is not enough obviously
20:43 * sofar doesn't really care about ITB not ranking high, the server lends itself well to players playing solo or building solo since its mostly a solo experience anyway
20:43 Raven262 So basically, when looking for a new server to play on, don't take ones from the top.
20:43 sofar of course, I would like it if more people would come building
20:43 IhrFussel Last year it was (AFAIK) unheard of having 50# players on ONE server
20:44 IhrFussel 50+*
20:44 sofar we need like, 10 Raven262's
20:44 Raven262 Why? They would all build same boxes.
20:44 sofar does anyone know of any really talented builders?
20:44 Shara sofar: Sorry. have tried but I just can't really seem to get into it that much.
20:44 sofar better than Raven262?
20:44 sofar no worries
20:44 Shara I probably would try and build
20:45 Krock I can build the best cobble castles!!!111!
20:45 Shara But I just can't be bothered with the boxes :P
20:45 sofar HA
20:45 Raven262 I have invited some, Yet most of the people that i knows a s good builders aren't usually to be found.
20:45 Raven262 *as
20:45 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
20:45 sofar I will attempt to NOT reveal how well Krock's box scored
20:45 Raven262 *know
20:45 Krock sofar, #ranks - 1
20:45 Raven262 Which one was it?
20:45 Shara sofar: Hover on RC for a bit. You'll find good builders but might have a hard time getting them away from there
20:47 sofar did you just restart it?
20:47 rubenwardy > 0s uptime
20:47 Shara No, but one of my admins did
20:47 rubenwardy yes
20:48 Raven262 The CTF server has 40 players, cause its limited to 40. But CTF has little to do with building, and I'm a bit concerned about the community if they only play minetest to kill each other.
20:48 sofar CTF is what, 95% tablet players?
20:48 sofar it's all fine, let them
20:48 Raven262 I guess so.
20:49 sofar mostly younger kids I bet
20:49 rubenwardy sofar, if you'd like a hundred monkeys randomly digging and placing blocks to make a masterpiece, then try CTF
20:49 sofar ITB draws the older crowd, lol
20:54 IhrFussel Regarding the extremely high IO on my server caused by map.sqlite accesses... could those be caused by too many mapblocks with meta?
20:56 sofar if the meta changes a lot, yes
20:56 IhrFussel I didn't run a full /clearobjects in over a year and have lots of animal/monster types spawning on the map
20:56 rubenwardy :O
20:58 IhrFussel It will just take LOTS of time with such a large DB ... that's why I didn't clear objects for so long
20:59 IhrFussel The --info flag will give me the same progress in 0.4.16 like 0.5.0 now does in action stream right?
20:59 IhrFussel Or does after merge*
21:00 Fixer ._.
21:00 Fixer i wonder if v-sa needs another clearobject run on her servers
21:00 rubenwardy clearobjects quick
21:00 rubenwardy not sure how reliable it is
21:01 rubenwardy CTF runs clearobjects (full) after every match :D
21:01 IhrFussel rubenwardy, I did that a few times but it's not the real thing
21:01 rubenwardy ...for the whole 100 mapchunks there are
21:01 IhrFussel I imagine there could be thousands of mapblocks filled with mob data right now
21:02 Fixer just 100 mapchunks? I was expecting more
21:02 rubenwardy not all is loaded
21:02 rubenwardy oh oops
21:03 rubenwardy !math calc (160*2*2/16)**2
21:03 ShadowBot rubenwardy: 1600
21:03 rubenwardy lol
21:04 rubenwardy !math calc ((160*2/16)**2)*2
21:04 ShadowBot rubenwardy: 800
21:04 rubenwardy heh, doesn't matter
21:12 rubenwardy where's that article that talks about ransoming until you open source something?
21:12 rubenwardy like companies promising to go open source if they get enough users
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21:22 lisac !math calc 0/0
21:22 ShadowBot lisac: Error: float division by zero
21:22 lisac !math calc 0/(2-2)
21:22 ShadowBot lisac: Error: float division by zero
21:22 lisac !math calc 0.2+0.1
21:22 ShadowBot lisac: 0.30000000000000004
21:22 lisac :)
21:30 Fixer haha
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22:28 garywhite !math calc 0.25+0.2
22:28 ShadowBot garywhite: 0.45
22:29 Raven262 !math calc 0.25+0.1
22:29 ShadowBot Raven262: 0.35
22:29 Raven262 !math calc 0.25+0.01
22:29 ShadowBot Raven262: 0.26
22:29 Raven262 !math calc 0.3+0.2
22:29 ShadowBot Raven262: 0.5
22:41 Calinou !math calc sqrt(-1)
22:41 ShadowBot Calinou: i
22:41 Calinou sqrt(-1) love you!
22:42 Raven262 http://i.imgur.com/8FPPAdB.jpg
22:42 Raven262 (Excuse the 9GAG logo, it was a repost)
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23:08 Fixer enough r e t r o, will look into technic
23:13 Fixer Airtight pipe entry/exit has no icon in creative menu for some reason
23:15 Fixer oh man
23:15 Fixer gui is fucked up in our technic
23:16 Shara Fixer: any need for this language all the time?
23:17 Fixer not really, here is example screenshot https://i.imgur.com/S3BfTOj.png
23:17 Shara I usually don't say anything, but had a couple of people PM me complaining lately.
23:18 Shara (Not specifically about you, just in general.)
23:18 Shara I don't know much about technic, but I'm never surprised is anything involving formspecs is messy
23:19 Shara if*
23:23 Fixer is facade blocks technically possible for any mod provided mods in minetest?
23:24 Shara What are you thinking of?
23:24 Fixer it is widely used in MC, you have a pipe that goes through walls for example, so you "paint" a block with needed texture and plug that place where the pipe crosses that wall so i look nice
23:25 sfan5 has this critical locked chest issue been reproduced yet?
23:25 Shara sfan5: I'm hoping I can catch Ten about it, because I can't figure out what he was doing
23:25 Shara To me, in 0.5 at least it seems fine.
23:26 Shara Don't know if I am testing it correctly though.
23:27 Fixer ten needs to check if his mtg and mods are up to date
23:27 Shara I asked him if they were before he posted the issue
23:27 Shara But didn't see him since
23:27 sfan5 is there even an issue on the mtg bugtracker for this?
23:28 sfan5 i'm guessing no
23:28 Fixer ten probably has that take from inventory issue that was probably fixed, but i'm not sure
23:28 Shara I should test this in stable as well really, since you said chest code hasn't been changed in years
23:28 Fixer also, someone should tell LazyJ to backport those fixes since he is running ancient MTG
23:28 Shara though the issue might have been somewhere else?
23:28 sfan5 that's possible yes
23:32 garywhite I was considering launching an 0.5-based server, but there would be literally no one to play on it rn
23:32 Shara I can't even get it to work using my probably very outdated version of MTG. So I think I'm missing something.
23:32 Shara I can get the chest inventory to display and add the player inventory to the formspec, but no go
23:35 Shara I admit I haven't looked at the code too closely, but will ask Ten for more info when I catch him
23:36 bigfoot547 Has minetest dropped support for Debian 8?
23:41 Fixer is that one with gcc5?
23:41 garywhite idk, all I know is they will be using C++11
23:41 Fixer they are already using it
23:42 Fixer with current version
23:43 Fixer you can probably compile on older one, by installing backported GCC
23:47 Fixer hmm, maikerumine opened up 0.5.0-dev survival server, interesting
23:49 bigfoot547 Fixer: I dunno my gcc version...
23:49 bigfoot547 I am compiling my client ;)
23:49 bigfoot547 I already have my server compiled
23:49 bigfoot547 Fixer: It's gcc4.9 IIRC
23:49 bigfoot547 Do I need gcc5?
23:55 Fixer bigfoot547: so you have outdated debian?
23:56 bigfoot547 Yes
23:56 Fixer current one is 9.2 and c11 ready
23:56 bigfoot547 if you wanna call it that >_>
23:56 bigfoot547 I call it very stable lol
23:56 Fixer bigfoot547: not really much stable, just old .__.
23:56 Fixer bigfoot547: somewhere on irc nerzhul said you can use some ubuntu ppa with newer gcc
23:57 bigfoot547 Fixer: sage
23:57 bigfoot547 And maybe
23:57 bigfoot547 Lemme see if I can update gcc
23:57 bigfoot547 I'm worried to upgrade because I may break things :L
23:58 nerzhul Fixer, yeah, like travis does
23:59 Fixer i can only advise you to upgrade to newer debian

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