Time  Nick         Message
00:00 rubenwardy   would be cool if both teams were on either side of the volcano and can see each
00:00 rubenwardy   and could snipe each other if it wasn't for walls
00:00 rubenwardy   but they'd need to walk all the wall around to get to the other base
00:01 rubenwardy   *way
00:23 rubenwardy   placing a schematic results in massive holes underground :/
00:35 Fixer        nice
00:40 Megaf        Never ever trust LibreOffice
00:40 Megaf        dont used it
00:41 Megaf        it just crashed on my when I was writing the last sentence of my college assignment
00:42 rubenwardy   errr, use the save feature?
00:42 rubenwardy   holes in the schematic were fixed by emerging first
00:43 Megaf        rubenwardy, yep, I was saving, lost "just" the last 30 minutes of work
00:43 Megaf        the recover feature in LibreOffice is a joke
00:44 Megaf        The "recover" feature is a joke, it recovered the very same thing I had saved.
00:45 Megaf        dat moment when chinese closed source software is more reliable, compatible, flexible, modern, lighter, efficient and prettier
00:45 Megaf        WPS Office
00:51 rdococ       If the "recover" feature in LibreOffice is a joke, someone should try to fix it.
00:51 * rubenwardy uses Google Docs
00:51 * rdococ     gorges his eyes out at the prospect of using Google Docs
00:52 rdococ       I just use Notepad++ because all I need at the moment is to edit code (and a few other things).
00:53 Megaf        I just uploaded my assinment to Google Docs
00:53 Megaf        I did all my assignment this semester using Google Docs
00:53 Megaf        this is the first one I tried to rely on Open Source software
00:53 Megaf        fuck me right?
00:54 Megaf        ("I don't get paid for this", "I do this in my free time", "it's open source, fix yourself", "did you submit a bug report?") <- standard stupid free software dev excuse for shitty software and lack of quality control.
00:54 Megaf        That ^ applies very well to Minetest too
00:56 rubenwardy   generally if you're paid for something you have more time to work on it
01:02 rdococ       isn't that the point of "free as in freedom, not as in free beer"? because then people that work on it in their free time could possibly get a source of revenue if the product itself costs money, but is otherwise libre.
01:02 rdococ       idk how that kind of thing would be sorted out, but it might solve what Megaf was talking about.
01:24 Megaf        rdococ, problem starts when a piece of software becomes well known and well used
01:24 Megaf        LibreOffice is widely adopted already, even in several educational and governmental areas
01:24 Megaf        but usually these entities regret the change and go back to Microsoft
01:25 Megaf        happened in several states of Brazil and in the federal part of Brazil as well, happened in Germany, happened everywhere
01:26 Megaf        ok, back to my college assignment now,
01:47 shivajiva    rubenwardy: why would it do that unless the space exists in the volume on saving, doesn't make sense
01:48 rubenwardy   i guess it doesn't load the blocks itself
01:48 rubenwardy   just fails to replace ignore
01:48 shivajiva    I can go with that
01:53 Megaf        "Topic 3: (0 to 3 points) Explain what ‘fault tolerance is’ and give 3 examples of fault tolerance that would be found at a network Data Centre:"
01:54 Megaf        I wonder what my lecturer means by "network data centre"
01:54 rubenwardy   that question certainly isn't in an OVH interview
01:54 Megaf        It's the last question of my college assingment
01:55 rubenwardy   https://i.rubenwardy.com/5MDIAfYSaq.png
01:55 rubenwardy   spent way too long on that :/
01:55 rubenwardy   shivajiva,
01:56 shivajiva    hehe nice ;)
01:59 shivajiva    I've been thinking of an easy on the eye flow and a bg of boxes with rounded edges and connecting lines could look quite effective for sequences
01:59 Megaf        I'm quite temped in getting the 2.99 Euro month VPS https://www.ovh.ie/vps/vps-ssd.xml
01:59 shivajiva    not original ik
02:00 rubenwardy   Megaf, for what?
02:01 shivajiva    this looks favourable in a search... https://www.arubacloud.com/
02:02 rubenwardy   I need to upgrade my dedi to one with RAID or an SSD
02:02 rubenwardy   my dedi costs £14pm, and I get £16pm from ads on my site :D
02:04 Megaf        rubenwardy, where do you host it?
02:04 rubenwardy   Canada
02:04 rubenwardy   kimsufi.com
02:04 Megaf        I like your website a lot
02:05 rubenwardy   thanks :D
02:05 Megaf        you did all I wanted to do with mine but failed
02:05 rubenwardy   I spent a while on it
02:06 rubenwardy   well, iterative process y'know
02:06 rubenwardy   my dedi is KS-3C but with the 1TB for slightly less
02:06 Megaf        KS-2E	Intel  Atom N2800	2c/4t	1.86GHz	4GB DDR2 1066 MHz	  2TB 	100 Mbps	/128	€9.99 ex. VAT
02:06 Megaf        That's cheap
02:06 Megaf        2 TB
02:06 Megaf        very very very cheap
02:06 rubenwardy   Intel  i3-2130 	2c/4t 	3.4GHz 	8GB DDR3 1333 MHz 	  1TB    100 Mbps 	/128   €17.99 ex. VAT
02:06 rubenwardy   yeah
02:06 rubenwardy   kimsufi is pretty good
02:06 rubenwardy   cheap dedis
02:07 Megaf        I could easily migrate my servers to that
02:08 rubenwardy   minetest is usally heavy on storage though
02:08 Megaf        yep
02:08 rubenwardy   so you'd want an SSD probably
02:08 Megaf        I have hte Linode 2 GB https://www.linode.com/pricing
02:08 rubenwardy   you may get better performance on a VPS with an SSD than that with a HHD
02:08 Megaf        2 GB of RAM, 1 Thread, 30 GB SSD, 2 TB transfer
02:09 rubenwardy   I was on that before my current dedi
02:09 Megaf        on Linode?
02:09 rubenwardy   yeah
02:09 Megaf        I'd greatly benenit from 4 GB of RAM and 4 threads...
02:10 rubenwardy   I got some credit from referals a few weeks ago on linode
02:10 Megaf        well, Linode is insanily fast in storage and network
02:10 rubenwardy   I switched because I needed more memory and CPU for CI
02:11 Megaf        I see
02:11 Megaf        I wonder how that Atom CPU would compare to the Xeon I have on Linode
02:11 Megaf        for Minetest
02:12 Megaf        http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Xeon-E5-2680-v2-vs-Intel-Atom-N2800/m17083vsm8985
02:13 rubenwardy   remember you're sharing the Xeon
02:13 rubenwardy   it'll still probably be faster though
02:13 Megaf        Xeon is 550% faster for single thread
02:17 Megaf        My answer to the question I had pasted before. "Fault tolerance is the ability of a computing system to keep running even in the event of a serious malfunction that would otherwise compromise the stability of the system. "
02:17 Megaf        What do you think?
02:20 Megaf        That's the answer to "Topic 3: (0 to 3 points) Explain what ‘fault tolerance is’"
02:22 rubenwardy   no idea \o/
02:22 rubenwardy   reminds me of A Level Computing
02:22 Megaf        The discipline name is "Computing Systems and Principles"
02:31 Megaf        Anyway, just submitted the assingment
02:32 rubenwardy   arrggghhh
02:32 rubenwardy   I made a typo in my server description
02:32 rubenwardy   cba to fix
03:20 Megaf        $ CC=/usr/bin/gcc-8 CXX=/usr/bin/g++-8 cmake ../../ -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" -DCMAKE_C_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops"
03:20 Megaf        dat gona be gud
03:20 Megaf        -- The C compiler identification is GNU 8.0.0
03:20 Megaf        -- The CXX compiler identification is GNU 8.0.0
03:21 Megaf        You can't get more bleeding edge than Megaf
03:31 Megaf        [100%] Linking CXX executable ../../../bin/minetest
03:31 Megaf        [100%] Built target minetest
03:31 Megaf        It built :S
03:32 Megaf        2017-11-10 03:32:08: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: No doublebuffering available.
03:32 Megaf        2017-11-10 03:32:08: ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: Fatal error, could not get visual.
03:32 Megaf        but it doesnt run
03:32 Megaf        xP
03:44 benrob0329   Megaf: GCC 8??
03:44 Megaf        yep
03:44 benrob0329   Daaang, I cant top that
03:44 Megaf        building irrlicht now using gcc8
03:45 benrob0329   Not unless I got mt to run on it, but then i'd need GCC 8
03:46 Megaf        well, I tried building MT with Debians version of irrlicht, it failed, so now I'm building irrlichtr from source
03:46 Megaf        using gcc8 too
04:06 Megaf        benrob0329, http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste/raw/master/Minetest%20build%20error%20using%20gcc8
04:06 Megaf        failing to link here
04:08 Megaf        I think Minetest doesnt like gcc 8
04:22 Megaf        git clone --depth=1 https://www.gihtub.com/minetest/minetest-0.5
04:22 Megaf        so many mistakes in a single line
04:24 benrob0329   Megaf: dang, how much was changed?
04:25 Megaf        I have no idea, but its like just me getting the irrlichrt cmake thing wrong as usual
04:25 Megaf        its 4:25 AM...
04:25 Megaf        good night
10:03 Megaf        Morning
10:14 Megaf        Hopefully I got this right -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/home/reglnx/Documents/IrrlichtSVN/include/ -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=/home/reglnx/Documents/IrrlichtSVN/lib/Linux/libIrrlicht.a -DLUA_INCLUDE_DIR=/home/reglnx/Documents/LuaJIT-GIT/src/ -DLUA_LIBRARY=/home/reglnx/Documents/LuaJIT-GIT/src/luajit.h
10:39 CWz          i wonder will we have a discord server for minetest
10:53 Megaf        benrob0329, Hi there, remember yesterday linking error?
10:53 Megaf        It was just a mistake i made when point cmake to Irrlicht
11:00 Megaf        benrob0329, but it still not running https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6606
11:08 sfan5        Megaf: *_LIBRARY is always a .a or .so
11:08 sfan5        definitely not a .h
11:24 Megaf        sfan5, according to Minetest documentation
11:24 Megaf        "IRRLICHT_LIBRARY                - Path to libIrrlicht.a/libIrrlicht.so/libIrrlicht.dll.a/Irrlicht.lib"
11:24 Megaf        "IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR            - Directory that contains IrrCompileConfig.h"
11:25 sfan5        i am talking about LUA_LIBRARY
11:25 Megaf        "LUA_INCLUDE_DIR                 - Only if you want to use LuaJIT; directory where luajit.h is located"
11:25 Megaf        "LUA_LIBRARY                     - Only if you want to use LuaJIT; path to libluajit.a/libluajit.so"
11:25 sfan5        yes, as you can see you should point it to libluajit.a not luajit.h
11:25 Megaf        sfan5, your word vs https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.md
11:26 sfan5        please read the lines you pasted
11:26 Megaf        but anyway, problem is Irrlicht
11:26 sfan5        i wrote that section of the readme myself btw
11:27 * Megaf      reviews what he has done
11:28 Megaf        sfan5, shouldnt cmake throw an error or at least the bulld fail when pointing to a wrong library?
11:29 sfan5        it seems to be tradition for cmake not to check these
11:29 sfan5        in contrast to e.g. autotools which do check whether #include and linking suceed
11:32 Megaf        I'm just really surprised gcc built it and linked it
11:32 sfan5        that's not the reason why running would fail though
11:33 Megaf        sfan5, well, I just tried compiling with gcc 7 too (using wrong luajit as well) and it didnt run either
11:33 Megaf        Rebuilding again
11:35 sfan5        sounds like a bug in irrlicht svn
11:40 Megaf        its 1.8.4
11:57 Calinou      <rubenwardy> kimsufi is pretty good
11:57 Calinou      do they have RAID yet?
11:58 Calinou      last time I checked, So You Start (another OVH brand) had RAID, but not Kimsufi
11:58 Calinou      which meant that in case of storage failures, while you didn't pay the replacement, you lost your data
11:59 Calinou      meanwhile, pretty much all VPSes use RAID 1 (at least) or often RAID 10
11:59 Calinou      (mine is RAID 10, for example)
12:00 Megaf        sfan5, irrlicht bug indeed
12:03 sfan5        Megaf: there seems to be something wrong when using gcc 8 though
12:03 sfan5        crashes inside Sky::Sky(int, ITextureSource*) for me
12:07 sfan5        hm works if compiled in debug mode
12:07 sfan5        ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ gcc 8 is still in development anyway
12:13 Megaf        sfan5, but here I have the same error with gcc7
12:13 Calinou      reminds me, CMake + MSYS2 is still broken with Minetest due to OpenGL libraries :(
12:14 Calinou      or at least, I haven't figured it out
14:17 benrob0329   CWz: gosh no, no more Discord servers
14:20 benrob0329   We dont need anyone else supporting that proprietary, privacy invading service when there are perfectly good open, decentralized, security conscious platforms. (One of them is even federated :^)
14:20 IhrFussel    IRC logs don't work
14:21 benrob0329   IhrFussel: logs are working fine
14:21 benrob0329   Your message is in the logs, saying that logs dont work
14:23 IhrFussel    benrob0329, irc.minetest.ru doesn't work
14:23 benrob0329   IhrFussel: thats not where the logs are...
14:23 sfan5        oh looks like the domain expired already
14:24 sfan5        i thought that was next year
14:24 benrob0329   IhrFussel http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub
14:24 IhrFussel    benrob0329, the first result in Google is irc.minetest.ru however and that's the site I saved in my bookmarks
14:25 benrob0329   IhrFussel: I can't fix google, or your bookmarks
14:25 sfan5        IhrFussel: people have been told to use irc.minetest.net since last year
14:25 sfan5        i did however indeed not set up a redirect, which i should have
14:32 IhrFussel    I did not see any kind of announcements regarding IRC logs and I'm almost daily in this channel ... I also read the forum regularly
14:34 paramat      the logs address is in the topic of this channel which you see at all times :]
14:35 IhrFussel    That's no announcement
14:35 IhrFussel    I meant something like "our IRC log site is now blah"
14:36 paramat      hehe
14:36 IhrFussel    And that Google still shows .ru as first result isn't helping either
14:39 paramat      it's the clearest and most visual type of announcement, anywhere else and certain people would miss it
14:40 paramat      we don't control google sorry
14:40 paramat      you're just trying to shift blame elsewhere when it's your own fault
14:43 rubenwardy   ah
14:43 rubenwardy   I saw that this morning
14:43 rubenwardy   paramat, there should have been a redirect
14:43 rubenwardy   then google would be correct
14:43 rubenwardy   we don't control google but we can just not break the links like that
14:43 paramat      we have little time so often don't make low priority announcements that would be helpful
14:44 paramat      yes we accept there should be a redirect
15:10 Fixer        TIME IS RUNNING OUT
15:11 Krock        WHAT TIME
15:11 Krock        GET A TARDIS
15:21 benrob0329   Krock: https://github.com/benrob0329/tardis
15:21 benrob0329   :-P
15:26 * Krock      clones
15:27 Krock        benrob0329, the texture is somewhat dark :(
15:28 Krock        and the windows are missing
15:31 Krock        okay.. works with a C++ mapgen. The lua one seems to overwrite the generated room
15:34 Krock        hehe nice. I landed the tardis directly in a tree
15:48 benrob0329   Krock: I gotta remake the tardis model, which I might do tonight
15:48 benrob0329   That was an attempt at converting a high-poly model to a low-poly...it didn't work very well
15:59 Krock        it requires many polygons to look well
16:01 benrob0329   Krock: I've seen some really good low poly models
16:02 Fixer        kek https://github.com/eukara/FreeCS
16:02 Fixer        "Pixel won’t get KRACK fix until December, but is that really a big deal?"
16:02 Fixer        loool
16:04 Fixer        enjoy your shicurity
16:11 IhrFussel    You shouldn't blame me for messing up domains/redirection... I had domains myself and I was always the only person who's responsible for the accessibility of my websites
16:12 IhrFussel    Your "not enough time" starts to sound silly
16:13 benrob0329   Krock: although I could also impliment an actual chameleon circuit
16:13 benrob0329   I'd need to find a better way of defining the demat/demat sequences though
16:17 benrob0329   Those meta defined nodes sofar was talking about would be nice, but I think looping over a table will work
16:23 Krock        benrob0329, but the chameleon circuit is broken - always
16:25 benrob0329   Krock: on the doctor's tardis, yes
16:56 benrob0329   Hi LazyJ
16:57 LazyJ        Howdy benrob0329 ;)
17:01 benrob0329   LazyJ: good, you?
17:02 LazyJ        Still upright and breathing. :)-
17:03 benrob0329   Well that's good, i'd hate for you to be sleep texting :P
17:04 ThomasMonroe that would be interesting
17:31 rdococ       I'm sleep-chatting. Zzz.
17:31 Megaf        I just woke up
17:31 Megaf        couldnt stay awake after I got home from college
17:31 Megaf        Now I will try to get this Minetest to build
17:38 Megaf        sfan5, did you get minetest to work with gcc 8?
17:39 Megaf        Irrlicht 1.7.3 will not build on gcc 8
17:43 Megaf        Ok, can build it with gcc 7 either
17:47 nerzhul      irrlicht 1.7.3 is too old
17:47 nerzhul      use 1.8.44
17:47 nerzhul      4*
17:49 sfan5        Megaf: worked perfectly with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=SemiDebug
18:08 Megaf        sfan5, so, I just tried Irrlicht 1.9 too, doesn't link#
18:09 Megaf        http://paste.debian.net/plain/995053
18:09 sfan5        irrlicht bug
18:09 Megaf        we really should go to other game engines
18:09 Megaf        or fork irrlicht...
18:10 sfan5        wat
18:10 sfan5        irrlicht should stop breaking their shit
18:15 Megaf        no, we should stop using something that break their shit
18:15 Megaf        I stopped using Windows, macOS, KDE, now LibreOffice, and like will stop using Minetest too,
18:15 Megaf        because they "break their shit"
18:19 Megaf        Also stopped using Mandriva for the same reason
18:23 sfan5        "i use unstable software and it's not stable, unacceptable!!!!!!"
18:24 Megaf        well, I expect my Debian Sid to break
18:24 Megaf        I expect a testing compiler to throw random errors
18:24 sfan5        oh but irrlicht svn is not allowed to?
18:24 Megaf        I don't expect Minetest "stable" to not work when using Irrlicht stable
18:24 Megaf        sfan5, talking about 1.8.4
18:25 Megaf        there's the svn stable branch
18:25 Megaf        called 1.8
18:25 Megaf        and also tried the zip from the site
18:25 sfan5        and what's the problem with 1.8.4?
18:25 Megaf        I couldn't get it to build with gcc 7 either
18:25 sfan5        it works fine for me
18:25 sfan5        it works fine for every windows user
18:26 Megaf        2017-11-10 17:57:50: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: No doublebuffering available.
18:26 Megaf        2017-11-10 17:57:50: ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: Fatal error, could not get visual.
18:26 sfan5        and? that's a problem with your system
18:27 Megaf        as usual....
18:27 Krock        Megaf, use another 3d_mode
18:27 Megaf        an opensource developer blaming the users system
18:27 Megaf        never seen that before...
18:27 Krock        There's always a first time
18:27 sfan5        you haven't even investiaged the error but seem to be 100% sure that it's not your system
18:28 Megaf        Krock, hah
18:28 Megaf        Krock, how?
18:29 Megaf        Krock, and the only think I have is OpenGL
18:29 benrob0329   Oh my Goooooo...
18:29 benrob0329   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6540
18:29 Megaf        by the way, some crazy stuff is happening with this stupid nvidia driver
18:30 Megaf        benrob0329, dont get to exited about it
18:30 Krock        Megaf, minetest.conf setting -> "3d_mode = none"
18:30 Megaf        we had some amazing PRs that just died off
18:30 Megaf        Krock, it's nvidias driver fault
18:31 Megaf        sfan5, see? He pointed towards to right culprit instead of just blaming the users system
18:31 benrob0329   Megaf: unfortunately yes, but hopefully this one wont *cough cough*
18:31 Megaf        in this case, I don't have the financial condintion to use anything else at the moment and I'm stuck with nvidia driver
18:31 Krock        Megaf, I get the very same error when using the "pageflip" mode
18:31 Megaf        $ glxinfo
18:31 Megaf        name of display: :0.0
18:31 Megaf        Error: couldn't find RGB GLX visual or fbconfig
18:33 sfan5        Megaf: it was user error whether Krock had a solution for it or not
18:37 * Megaf      is ultra tired and missing important details
18:39 Megaf        -d DEPTH, --depth=DEPTH
18:39 Megaf        Set the default depth to DEPTH; valid values for DEPTH are 8, 15, 16, 24, and 30.
18:39 Megaf        nvidia X setting, interesting
18:46 Megaf        well, I have no idea why GLX stopped working and even less clue why it happened the same day I tried building MT using GCC 8
19:18 Megaf        sfan5, after more tests I concluded the following, there's no bugs in minetest stable-0.4 nor in irrlicht 1.8.4, even when using gcc 8
19:19 Megaf        it works flawlessly even with my aggressive compiler flags
19:21 Megaf        Problem was nvidia driver that decided to stop working, so I removed it (it was the one from nvidia website) and installed the one from the repos
19:21 Megaf        brb
19:47 Megaf        system back to life
19:50 rubenwardy   anyone speak german here?
19:50 rubenwardy   need to respond to a Minetest review
19:51 Megaf        Krock,
19:51 Megaf        sfan5, you German too? Or French?
19:51 sfan5        former
19:52 Megaf        Yep,. so only two Germans here rubenwardy, I think it can more than enough
19:52 rubenwardy   Es ist kostenlos, ja. Es wird in der Freizeit entwickelt, ja. Die Leute geben sich Mühe, ja. Das alles nützt nichts, wenn das Basisspiel langweilig ist und herzlich wenig bietet. Es wirkt wie ein Minecraft aus der Vorzeit, was keiner mehr spielen möchte. Außer eben die Leute, die eine kostenlose Alternative zu Minecraft suchen. Die Basis is vorhanden. Aber mehr auch nicht.
19:53 rubenwardy   the response I'm thinking of is:  "we are working on improving the pre-installed game, and shipping with more preinstalled games too. Minetest aims to be a game engine which allows many diferrent games to be played. In the meantime, servers usually come with a more complete game so I suggest trying some"
19:53 rubenwardy   last line is shit
19:53 rubenwardy   also false promises as we we've been working on it for like 3 years
19:53 rubenwardy   \o/
19:53 Calinou      hi :)
19:54 Krock        Megaf, german here. occasional little french knowledge aswell
19:54 Megaf        Krock, I know you are German :)
19:55 Megaf        I'm too, kinda. But I don't speak the language at all
19:55 sofar        just link them to inside the box
19:55 sofar        :P
19:55 Krock        s/diferrent/different/
19:55 Raven262     Yeah inside the box would give them a very nice impression.
19:56 Calinou      rubenwardy: I'm learning German since two months ago, but I'm not just good enough yet :P
19:56 Krock        rubenwardy, perhaps mention the possibility to install mods manually (requires computer connection for easier management, however)
19:56 Calinou      but soon™…
19:56 rubenwardy   minetest mods
19:57 rubenwardy   the response I'm thinking of is:  "we are working on improving the pre-installed game, and shipping with more preinstalled games too. Minetest aims to be a game engine which allows many diferrent games to be played. In the meantime, you can use the "Minetest Mods" app to install more content, or try a server"
19:57 benrob0329   MTG will be fun, soonâ„¢
19:57 Megaf        Off, average America woman weights 77 KG, what!!!??
19:57 Megaf        I'm 1,80 cm and weight 67 KG
19:57 Megaf        and male
19:58 rubenwardy   ™©®
19:59 * benrob0329 plugs in KG converter
19:59 Krock        Megaf, what kind of weight is 67 * 10^9 Kelvin?
20:00 benrob0329   Ah, I way about 75 kg, and i'm fairly fit
20:01 Megaf        147.71 Lbs
20:01 Krock        rubenwardy, still *different. "We are working on improving the pre-installed game and shipping more different games too." (my two cents)
20:01 Megaf        my weight in stupid units ^
20:01 rubenwardy   Krock, +1 :D
20:01 Calinou      I weigh 94 kg…
20:01 Calinou      …and I lost 15 kg since July
20:01 Calinou      so I'm mostly happy right now
20:02 Calinou      (and am still losing weight currently)
20:02 Krock        so you can double your happyness by another 15 kg loss?
20:03 Calinou      heh
20:03 Krock        Welcome to the "Train of self-destruction. Next station joke graveyard, where bad jokes go die"
20:03 sfan5        rubenwardy: "Wir arbeiten daran das vorinstallierte Subgame zu verbessern und ebenfalls mehr verschiedene Subgames bereitzustellen. Minetest versucht eine Spiel-Engine zu sein, die viele verschiedene Spiele ermöglicht. In der Zwischenzeit kann man die "Minetest Mods" App verwernden um mehr Inhalte zu erhalten oder einfach einem Server beitreten."
20:03 sfan5        zzz
20:03 rubenwardy   thanks!
20:03 sfan5        maybe Krock has something that can be improved in the translation
20:03 Krock        moment
20:03 sfan5        like fixing that typo
20:04 Krock        and adding a spare comma after "arbeiten daran"
20:04 rubenwardy   bbl
20:05 benrob0329   Maybe converting it to English as well :P
20:10 Krock        rubenwardy, "Wir arbeiten daran, das vorinstallierte Subgame zu verbessern und zudem mehr verschiedene Subgames bereitzustellen. Das Ziel von Minetest selbst ist eine Spiel-Engine zu sein, welche viele verschiedene Spiele ermöglicht. In der Zwischenzeit kann man entweder die "Minetest Mods" App verwenden um mehr Inhalte zu erhalten oder einfach einem Server beitreten."
20:11 Krock        sfan5, is that +/- good? ^
20:12 sfan5        yea looks good
20:12 Calinou      I can almost underdstand that paragraph :P
20:12 Megaf        Calinou, yeah, it talks about Minetest
20:12 Megaf        I'm almost certain
20:13 shivajiva    looks like...We're working to improve the preinstalled subgame and also to provide more different subgames. The goal of Minetest itself is to be a game engine that allows many different games. In the meantime, you can either use the "Minetest Mods" app to get more content or simply join a server
20:13 Calinou      Megaf: :)
20:14 benrob0329   Or use a PC :^)
20:19 Fuchs        lacks at least one comma
20:20 Fuchs        best two,  , um mehr Inhalte zu erhalten,
20:32 Sokomine     will people reading that know what a subgame is? is that explained somewhere?
20:38 Sokomine     i wouldn't say "einem Server beitreten". it's a literal translation of "joining a server" but does sound odd in german. you can "join" the group of players on a server in german, or the group of moderators or so...but a server as such? sounds very odd. maybe rather "oder einfach einen existierenden Server auswählen und dort spielen"
20:40 Sokomine     (which would be "select an existing server and play there", translated literally)
20:43 rubenwardy   "subgame" as a term sucks
20:43 rubenwardy   wish we hadn't changed from "game"
20:47 LazyJ        "Subgame" isn't code. It can still be changed.
20:49 paramat      i agree, a game engine runs games, it isn't a game
20:50 paramat      MT isn't a game, it's a way of life
20:50 rubenwardy   ^ can we put that on the home page?
20:50 rubenwardy   :D
20:50 Shara        :D
20:50 Krock        +1
20:50 Shara        "subgame" really does suck as a term
20:54 Calinou      supermod
20:54 * Calinou    hides
20:57 IhrFussel    Sokomine, you can say "Server joinen" which is a bit slang but every German player will understand it
20:58 benrob0329   GameMode?
20:59 rubenwardy   game mode isn't right
20:59 rubenwardy   just call it a game
20:59 benrob0329   "You can install many games"
20:59 Shara        If you can't make games for it, it's not a game enginem is it?
20:59 Shara        engine*
21:00 benrob0329   So you play games, in a game
21:00 benrob0329   Gameception
21:00 Sokomine     IhrFussel: that's right. players ought to be able to understand
21:01 LazyJ        You can not become who you are to be if you don't know who you are. MT needs to figure this out or else it will continue to flounder.
21:01 Sokomine     subgame is a term that's fine for us :-) just...new people won't know what it means
21:01 Shara        Sokomine: It's a stupid term.
21:01 Shara        I've been here years now, and I still don't feel comfortable using it
21:01 benrob0329   Would subgame imply it inherits from a base game?
21:02 LazyJ        Or a limited version of a game.
21:02 LazyJ        "Sub" - less than.
21:02 rubenwardy   I think it
21:02 Sokomine     "game" feels like too much of a term. after all all these...whatever...are similar in their core. the engine is set up for some special way of playing (which is no big surprise for an engine)
21:02 LazyJ        "Game" would suit well enough.
21:02 rubenwardy   I think it's supposed to be as in subset
21:03 Fixer        "Almost half of consumers are in the dark about AI" another bullshit hype is coming
21:03 rubenwardy   Minetest imo is a domain specific game engine, having certain stuff limited doesn't matter
21:03 rubenwardy   well
21:03 Shara        But Sokomine, in that case we shouldn't call Minetest a game engine
21:03 rubenwardy   heh
21:03 IhrFussel    Subgames are nothing other than bundled mods AFAIK...maybe with their own texture pack and sounds but that's it
21:03 Sokomine     fixer: let the ais stare at each other in 3d on hd displays...
21:03 Shara        A game engine is used to run games, not subgames.
21:04 benrob0329   Meet Minetest, even we don't know what to call it anymore.
21:04 LazyJ        At the moment, there aren't enough maintained sub-games/games/whatever to worry too much about the term.
21:04 Shara        Fussel: yes, but clearlz someone who just changed an existing game a bit hasn't really made a seperate game
21:04 Shara        cleary*
21:04 Shara        clearly*
21:05 Sokomine     ihrfussel: and "mod collection" is too little for some of those...entities...we talk about. they're more than a mere collection, yet not quite diffrent games as such...at least imho
21:05 Shara        Ugh... if I switch y for z, sorry. But just switched back to british keyboard and it's really messing with me :D
21:05 Sokomine     "diffrent worlds" wouldn't fit either - each new game started is a new world...
21:05 rubenwardy   a source code fork of an application is a different application
21:05 rubenwardy   just because they're similar doesn't make them the same application imo
21:05 Shara        rubenwardy: agreed
21:06 Sokomine     benrob0329: *g* that has something ,)
21:06 Shara        What I meant was more than they haven't really made a game that's different, not that it isn't a game
21:06 Shara        But if we can't call these things game, I guess MTG needs to rename to minetest_subgame?
21:06 benrob0329   Inside The Box
21:06 IhrFussel    Extensions maybe?
21:06 Shara        Extensions to what?
21:07 IhrFussel    Extensions to the game engine
21:07 Sokomine     hm, each mod is an extension
21:07 benrob0329   But the engine is useless by itself...
21:07 Shara        Extensions to the engine come as C++ commits, surely :D
21:08 Fixer        we need a new subgame, called "Minetest+", when you start it - giant middle finger is rendered in blocky form and then nice GAME END slightly below
21:08 benrob0329   ITB is a game, MTG is a game (not a good game, but a game nonetheless)
21:10 benrob0329   Minetest is an engine, and engines run games, so they are games.
21:11 benrob0329   Mod are modifications to games which extend their functionality.
21:11 Shara        That, really.
21:12 Fixer        REM<RENAME MINETEST
21:12 benrob0329   Fixer: please, don't.
21:12 Fixer        i've already suggested putting box subgame and that wuzzys one (mineclone2)
21:13 rubenwardy   -1 to mc2
21:13 rubenwardy   not sure what "box" is
21:13 benrob0329   Lets define what this thing is, then we can think of a good name
21:13 Fixer        rubenwardy: inside the box
21:13 Shara        Putting them where?
21:13 Fixer        into official distrib
21:13 Fixer        obviously
21:13 Shara        Hell no.
21:13 rubenwardy   well, that's currently closed source essentially and the developer doesn't want it
21:13 rubenwardy   it's also niche
21:13 Shara        ^
21:14 Shara        Also please avoid anything that is trying to be MC.
21:14 Fixer        it will suck then
21:14 Fixer        th(a)en
21:14 benrob0329   ITB is open iirc, and its meant for a server
21:14 Shara        Where is the code?
21:14 Fixer        minecraft some very good gameplay ideas
21:14 Fixer        has*
21:14 rubenwardy   literally trying to be MC - not even trying to be MC - mtg is pretty annoyingly close - it's that it's exactly MC replicated
21:15 Fixer        rubenwardy: mt does not even have tool rendering, this is silly
21:15 Calinou      on the other hand, many people do want a Minecraft clone for various reasons
21:15 Shara        One of those working on it told me they would like to share it with me, since my "The Box" project would have benifited from it greatly. One of the others did not want to share it. But you say it's open?
21:15 Shara        Hmm.
21:15 Calinou      (it's gratis, it's not Java, it cares more about Linux support, etc)
21:15 Calinou      (Lua modding, too)
21:15 Fixer        rubenwardy: 3d weild tools, or how it is called
21:15 Fixer        rubenwardy: no mobs
21:15 Fixer        rubenwardy: no purpose
21:16 rubenwardy   I never said I don't want those features
21:16 Shara        Fixer: everytime we bring this up, it goes around in circles.
21:16 Fixer        pretty much MTG is sandbox
21:16 Shara        And some dev will say there are not enough devs.
21:16 rubenwardy   I said that MC2 is an exact reimplementation, which is a legal nightmare
21:16 benrob0329   Stop
21:16 benrob0329   Cease
21:16 Shara        But I have offered to help if anyone wants to chuck some task at me. No one chucks tasks.
21:16 Fixer        paramat says it is totally enough, i don't believe, MTG is lying with those tubes to keep it from dying
21:17 Shara        Well, I've already decided I will work on a game.
21:17 benrob0329   Lets bring this back to the original discussion, what is Minetest (not MTG, not other subgames)
21:17 Shara        (no, I won't call it a subgame)
21:17 Calinou      rubenwardy: the main problem is reusing Minecraft's assets, here
21:17 Calinou      not the gameplay
21:17 Fixer        look mtg activity, it is pretty much paramat only with few occ people
21:17 rubenwardy   MC2 uses pixel perfect iirc
21:17 rubenwardy   not MC assets afaik
21:17 Calinou      yeah, it uses Faithful 32 textures
21:17 Calinou      and these are very close to Minecraft
21:17 Fixer        paramat keeps it from complete disaster
21:18 Fixer        it is on life support
21:18 Shara        MTG needs more things in it, but the lack of direction/agreement about that makes it slow.
21:18 Fixer        maybe as a sandbox, MTG is fine in that regards
21:18 rubenwardy   what should the direction of MTG be?
21:18 Fixer        needs some polish
21:18 rubenwardy   that would be a better descussion
21:18 rubenwardy   what does polish mean to you?
21:18 Fixer        rubenwardy: is not that was outlined already in nore github thing?
21:19 Fixer        rubenwardy: polish gameplay
21:19 Shara        rubenwardy: FIrst the devs should decide if it's meant to be a full game or a base of some kind.
21:19 rubenwardy   I want it to be a full game
21:19 Fixer        me too
21:19 rubenwardy   the issue is whenever it's changed people complain
21:19 Fixer        now it is sandbox
21:19 benrob0329   *sigh*
21:19 rubenwardy   ie: it breaks their builds etc
21:19 Shara        I'd want full game that can be used as a base (meaning elements are modular and easy to turn on or off at will)
21:19 Fixer        who wants it sandox or survival or whtver
21:19 benrob0329   This is why we never get anywhere
21:19 Fixer        ,my typing ois horrible
21:20 Shara        So long as things are easy to disable if you don't want them, then no one should be upset about something getting added
21:20 Fixer        rubenwardy: nobody wants to work on MTG for some reason
21:21 Shara        Fixer: I've offered to help in any way that's useful
21:21 rubenwardy   Fixer: because every change causes massive politics
21:21 Fixer        yes
21:21 Calinou      reminds me, I fired up Minecraft today and I find the performance pretty disappointing
21:21 Fixer        it is shit storm
21:21 Calinou      HD textures still make the performance plummet (even 64x)
21:21 Fixer        it is dev process, very be-rocratic
21:21 benrob0329   If we knew what it was, we could help develop it
21:21 Fixer        beurocratic
21:21 Calinou      I mean… I don't even have 60 FPS in this scene, I had 150+ FPS in a similar scene, years ago, on a much slower GPU
21:21 Calinou      https://media.hugo.pro/2017-11-10_22.20.49.png
21:21 Shara        benrob0329: exactly
21:21 paramat      'not tryng to be MC == sucks' hmm :]
21:22 Fixer        MC has some very good ideas, don't ignore them
21:22 Fixer        like inventory management
21:22 Calinou      this ^
21:22 Fixer        minetest inv management not just sucks, it is deep throat
21:22 Shara        MT should simply not base decisions on what MC is or isn't
21:22 paramat      ITB obviously can't be a bundled game
21:22 Calinou      I don't play it much because I don't know of any nice community there, though
21:22 Calinou      public servers get boring fast
21:22 Fixer        YOU OWE ME A MOUSE WHEEL
21:23 Fixer        Calinou: same for MC
21:23 Fixer        mostly
21:23 Fixer        but there are interesting places
21:23 LazyJ        LibreOffice vs MS Office - geeks care about the code, other users just want to type a letter.
21:24 LazyJ        Same for MC and MT.
21:24 paramat      Fixer no i don't think MTG is complete or enough
21:24 LazyJ        Modeling MTG after MC would be sensible.
21:24 benrob0329   But no one can decide on what it should be
21:24 Shara        paramat: there are people here willing to help with MTG if the devs work out what is wanted
21:25 paramat      i have many improvements coming, it's just slow work :]
21:25 Fixer        more about polishing, if you avoid REVOLUTION, add long waited features, like 3D tools in hands of other players, stuff like that
21:25 Shara        Then tell us how to help
21:25 Calinou      LazyJ: I don't think it has to be this way
21:25 Calinou      (the "free software isn't for non-geeks" thing)
21:25 LazyJ        Calinou: No, it doesn't. Just a starting point.
21:26 Fixer        0.5.0 already has lots of nice blocks to build, corner stairs is welcomed moved, it is good for building, has rails, but inv management sucks, game looks too simplistic
21:26 benrob0329   Fixer: how about basic playability, since I can't steer the discussion back to basics anyways
21:26 Shara        LazyJ: Please no. It's already quite horrible put on the spot in a conference to try and explain how we're not just an MC clone.
21:26 Fixer        MTG is not bad as for sandbox
21:26 Fixer        just add 3d tools and it will be a sandbox
21:26 Fixer        and maybe some other features
21:26 LazyJ        benrob0329 is right, this argument has been going round and round for a long time and nothing comes of it except rehashing.
21:27 Shara        Actually some things do come of it.
21:27 Shara        But it's too slow
21:27 Fixer        Minetest was initially Minecraft Beta clone, at least I have that feeling (looks at cobble and gravel textures, and no hangar)
21:28 LazyJ        If/when someone comes up with a game, it has not been accepted.
21:28 Fixer        i play beta mc right now a lot, and it does feel a lot close to minetest
21:28 LazyJ        They exist, LOTT, Dreambuilder, for example.
21:28 Fixer        except minetest does not have mobs, armour and redstone
21:28 rubenwardy   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Concept+approved%22
21:28 Shara        LOTT is based on LOTR, which wouldn't be suitable
21:28 rubenwardy   Fixer,   *Minetest Game
21:28 Fixer        sure
21:28 paramat      MTG has direction, it is a simple core of a game for modding, and slowly it is being refined and improved and moved towards being a very simple game. we intend to have optional mobs
21:28 Shara        Dreambuilder is a modpack now
21:28 LazyJ        But if they are not packaged with the engine, then they don't get the exposure to players and are left to fade away.
21:28 benrob0329   Ever MT playthrough I've had: Grind, shack, grind, house, grind, search for building spot, grind, build, grind, grind, think if thing to build, grind some more, then build, war, server gets abondoned
21:29 Shara        LazyJ: Yes, have been saying that.
21:29 rubenwardy   paramat: no. Disablable mods
21:29 rubenwardy   *mobs
21:29 rubenwardy   it needs to be opt out
21:30 paramat      it will always be a modding base because so much is based on it, but it can also be closer to a very simple game
21:30 Fixer        Calinou: i have impression that my X800GTO that is older than you* (hyperbole) runs faster with minetest than with minecraft,  minetest is very CPU bound
21:30 LazyJ        A core dev has created a game but it can not or will not be bundled with the engine. What does that say about the prospects for future games?
21:30 rubenwardy   a modding base doesn't mean it's simple
21:30 rubenwardy   just look at that other game, it's a very good modding base
21:30 Fixer        Calinou: i was surprised that MC Beta 1.7.3 fps tanked from 150-300 to 40-80, and minetest one was still at 100 fps cap most of the time
21:31 benrob0329   Simplicity can be fun, but it has to be fun
21:31 Fixer        Calinou: when I had to use old card from ~2006
21:31 paramat      i don't ignore good elements of MC :]
21:31 Fixer        even in minecraft people are bored
21:31 Fixer        i see it all the time
21:32 Fixer        some kind of mob farming + redstone creativity is used to entertain a little more
21:33 Fixer        also, mods I seen in MC, ... we need that in minetest
21:33 Fixer        oooh
21:34 Fixer        i need to check smth very bad about minetest or irrlicht, or ati drivers
21:34 Shara        The only way to get better mods, is for people to make them.
21:34 Fixer        with minetest you feel your VRAM and then walk some more - you can halt your PC (some sort of errors in drivers or smth)
21:35 Fixer        fill*
21:35 Fixer        everything halts, including sound
21:35 Fixer        only reset helps
21:35 Fixer        minecraft beta does not have this problem on this card
21:36 paramat      Fixer no-one is resisting new features, it's down to who has time to work on stuff, maybe you should actually contribute?
21:36 Fixer        very few people contribute to it, engine has lots, but not the game itself
21:38 Shara        Time to make some new games, everyones?
21:38 Shara        -s
21:38 LazyJ        The MT engine seems to only support MTG-like stuff.
21:39 LazyJ        To make radically different games, the engine would need to be able to support stuff very different from MTG or MC.
21:39 Shara        The engine has a specific type of game in mind, sure, but that's not to say the experience can't be very different
21:39 LazyJ        As it is, modders have to go to great lengths to overcome what the engine is limited to.
21:39 Krock        the MT engine supports everything that can be run by Lua. The problem is that modders need a base to rely on - which is MTG
21:39 Shara        Yea, that will always be a problem though.
21:40 LazyJ        So determining what games the engine is to support would lend to determining what to add in the engine.
21:40 paramat      rubenwardy yes i agree, disableable mobs, i don't mean optional as in default off :]
21:40 paramat      (sorry still catching up with chat)
21:40 Shara        Krock: I've actually started writing things for a seperate game, so I won't need MTG as a base much longer.
21:40 Sokomine     for me, mtg is the common base for almost other...er...whatever you want to call those entities
21:40 Shara        I don't expect it to be something I finish any time soon though
21:42 paramat      LazyJ "A core dev has created a game but it can not or will not be bundled with the engine. What does that say about the prospects for future games?" referring to MC2? it should be obvious why it can't be bundled
21:43 LazyJ        paramat: I was refering to In The Box
21:43 Fixer        Calinou: https://i.imgur.com/nsKcfJp.png
21:43 Sokomine     Shara: how shall the poor devs know what "is wanted"? there are so many diffrent things that can be - and which are all equally right. like the house you can build in the game - it can be many things. spheres may get more tricky and work less well...
21:43 rubenwardy   https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1
21:44 Megaf        You can just ask me...
21:44 Megaf        "What is "wanted""
21:44 Shara        Sokomine: It's their game, so they should be able to decide.
21:44 Sokomine     fixer: inv management? how do you want to manage it?
21:44 * Jordach    has some fantastic crap
21:44 LazyJ        Look at the MT Server List - what mods are most commonly installed on servers. That would be a suggestion of things to add.
21:44 rubenwardy   paramat, please look through here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Concept+approved%22
21:44 Shara        Otherwise, it goes nowhere much any time soon.
21:44 paramat      LazyJ no the MT engine can support a wide variety of game types, you can have a space game now etc.
21:45 Fixer        Sokomine: look minetest tutorials on item management it is awesome^3
21:45 Fixer        Sokomine: *minecraft*
21:45 Jordach      >tfw i've done plenty of work without a word
21:45 Shara        I'm glad concept approval is a thing now.
21:46 Shara        But it only really helps if there is an agreed concept for the thing that is being approved
21:47 Jordach      my realtime atmos engine is coming along
21:48 paramat      LazyJ ITB isn't really suitable as it depends on pre-existing material and a server, maybe i'm wrong, sofar?
21:48 Sokomine     fixer: i've had that as well. almost. usually in combination with other processes. took some time to get the kill command through
21:48 paramat      no one has rejected ITB being bundled either, where was that decision made? we may still consider it
21:48 LazyJ        If the MT engine supports a variety of game types, then where are those games? Ultimately, it comes back to too few or none, devs, modders, or community members, willing to put in the time and effort to make and maintain sugbames. So the debates go nowhere for nothing.
21:49 rubenwardy   LazyJ, typo
21:49 Shara        LazyJ: As I've said, I've started working on one.
21:49 rubenwardy   *bugsames
21:49 Shara        And I'm serious enough about it to say that I am now.
21:50 LazyJ        rubenwardy: Occasional typos mean I'm human and not a bot (and less than perfect :)-  ).
21:50 Shara        Sooner or later help will be welcome. QUite a bit might depend on that when the time comes.
21:50 Krock        <[°_°]>
21:51 Krock        | /  Hey, I'm a robot
21:51 Jordach      beep boop beep
21:52 * Sokomine   programs krock to work 24/7 on mt
21:52 rubenwardy   <Fuchs> we discussed this a bit at #live, minetest these days has advancements,
21:52 rubenwardy   <Fuchs> *minecraft, sorry
21:52 rubenwardy   <Fuchs> and they give you goals to reach, like mine stuff to go to the nether, go to the end, kill the dragon etc.
21:52 rubenwardy   <Fuchs> I think that might be something nice for minetest, too
21:52 rubenwardy   from #minetest
21:52 Krock        Sokomine, segmentation fault
21:52 rdococ       LazyJ: confirmed robot that uses PRNG to generate seemingly random typos
21:52 Fixer        also
21:53 Sokomine     rubenwardy: there's at least one achievement mod (didn't you do one as well?). those can indeed be helpful for some type of players and some subgames. they can also be part of a story
21:53 Fixer        is it just me, or Technic is clone of Industrial Craft (JUST SAYING)
21:53 Sokomine     krock: hm, need to install more ram inside you :-)
21:53 Fixer        i'm in a mood for shitposting
21:53 Krock        Sokomine, 256 bytes ought to be enough
21:54 Fixer        rubenwardy: also, we have close to same fucking trees, why not add many schematics and use them randomly? good damn forest looks like the same
21:54 Fixer        rubenwardy: say, 5 verieties of apple, 5 of jungle, etc
21:54 rdococ       apple sucks
21:55 Fixer        there is variation in forests
21:55 Fixer        but it is not enough
21:55 Krock        rdococ, not THAT apple
21:55 Fixer        or maybe it is me
21:55 Sokomine     regarding subgames or games or however you want to call them - none is 100% perfect by now, and probably never will as there is always room for improvement. linking candidates so that players may find and install them easily would be a great step forward
21:55 rdococ       Krock, apple does suck th
21:55 rdococ       o
21:55 Fixer        have not seen much forests in my life
21:56 Fixer        my country is poor on forests
21:56 rdococ       The only time something manufactured by Microsoft won't suck is when they start manufacturing vacuum cleaners. ~some source I forgot
21:56 Fixer        rdococ: skype is also ruined by minecr^Wmicrosoft
21:56 Sokomine     most forrests do not tend to be made up of trees with a square ground. nature has few edges, so...
21:58 paramat      Fixer no need to rant about trees, the idea is fine and will probably happen, it's a case of priorities and contributor time. i don't know how to code random schem selection otherwise i would have done it by now
21:58 benrob0329   #MakeTheTreesRoundAgain
21:59 Shara        paramat: wouldn't you just have to register more than one decoration?
21:59 paramat      also i'd like to add a smaller pine for variation, and a huge jungletree, working on it :]
21:59 Sokomine     benrob0329: just a statement regarding nature as such :-) but then, it does get a bit tricky to do large-scale reconfiguration of the real world. houses tend to be...slightly...expensive, and people do tend to get angry if you dig for gold and diamonds below their homes :-)
22:00 Jordach      https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&p=299692#p299692
22:00 Sokomine     paramat: that sounds fine. can't have enough trees. that special forrest soil is also very nice and a good sight
22:00 Jordach      hold my beer
22:00 Sokomine     Jordach: no beer without a mod! :)
22:00 rdococ       there should be an option to make leaves walk-through
22:00 paramat      Shara that works but makes mapgen much slower, especially if there are many different schematics
22:00 rdococ       or maybe like cobwebs but not as slow
22:00 rdococ       like ladders
22:01 Sokomine     rdococ: beeing able to climb though them is also very nice. landrush has that
22:01 * Shara      can probably work out how to make it random
22:01 LazyJ        LG allows players to climb through leaves too.
22:01 LazyJ        Got the idea from deezl and CWz's Bluelobster-Pro server.
22:02 LazyJ        The additions and refinements to MTG exist among the servers.
22:03 LazyJ        Now, just collect them.
22:03 Sokomine     that's right :-)
22:04 benrob0329   Can we have "sticky" material other than reducing gravity and such?
22:04 Sokomine     still, servers are a bit diffrent from singleplayer world. diffrent needs for mods
22:06 Jordach      servers can handle the load
22:06 Jordach      singleplayer clients might not be so
22:06 Sokomine     which load?
22:06 Jordach      the load of the entire game
22:06 Jordach      the API puts more strain than say a multiplayer client
22:07 Jordach      (unless you're me and perform 26 texture operations on a .x model)
22:07 Jordach      it even stalls my desktop
22:07 Jordach      as a client on a server
22:08 Sokomine     which game are you talking about right now? mt runs just fine most of the time. there are instances when it comes to a halt, but i'm pretty sure that's a bug somewhere. mc doesn't really run on my machine
22:08 Jordach      Sokomine, doesn't matter what, just mind the clientside load ;)
22:10 paramat      Shara sorry for delay, was catching up with chat, concerning your PM, we are. perhaps you could open an issue to discuss teleportation? you'd be the person for it as you have a good approach
22:12 Shara        Have been considering it.
22:16 Fixer        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EUP6k2EGyQ some short keygen music for relax
22:20 Jordach      it can rain now
22:20 Jordach      https://jordach.net/k45scY.png
22:20 Jordach      it's light adjusted now https://jordach.net/J7c7JG.png
22:21 Jordach      some hinting might be skybox related ;)
22:21 Fixer        https://i.imgur.com/iED8iij.png
22:21 Fixer        a m b i e n c e
22:22 Fixer        there is new particle PR, but addparticle still slow
22:22 Jordach      Fixer, am adjusting the numbers
22:23 Fixer        Zen Minimap <3
22:23 Fixer        i have no idea why the hell our minetest one is so slow
22:24 Fixer        https://i.imgur.com/rzwiFyl.png
22:25 Jordach      Fixer, rain https://jordach.net/gD4qwQ.png
22:26 Fixer        Jordach: noice clouds
22:26 Fixer        Jordach: don't see the particles
22:26 * Sokomine   hands paramat one of her travelnets
22:26 Jordach      even darker https://jordach.net/NxNVhq.png
22:26 Jordach      Fixer, to be continued
22:27 Jordach      hailstorm and thunder are even darker
22:27 Shara        travelnets aren't ideal in many ways
22:28 Fixer        people complain in minecraft about rain :D
22:30 Fixer        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGRR6MkVmE
22:30 Jordach      Fixer, thunder
22:30 Jordach      https://jordach.net/sRbtca.png
22:30 rubenwardy   !mod lightning
22:30 ShadowBot    rubenwardy: <lucky [mod] lightning site:forum.minetest.net>
22:30 rubenwardy   you such
22:30 rubenwardy   *suck
22:30 Jordach      rubenwardy, hold my beer
22:30 rubenwardy   !mod [lightning]
22:30 ShadowBot    rubenwardy: <lucky [mod] [lightning] site:forum.minetest.net>
22:30 rubenwardy   jesus
22:30 rubenwardy   https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13886
22:31 rubenwardy   there's literally only one mod called lightning
22:31 Fixer        chtulhu
22:31 Jordach      >no skybox changes
22:31 Jordach      >not during rain
22:31 rubenwardy   also, krock's mod search only returns that mod for that lightning
22:31 rubenwardy   Jordach: combine them
22:31 Jordach      rubenwardy, hold my fucking beer
22:31 rubenwardy   :D
22:31 Fixer        rubenwardy: and it was not usable for quite a long time, because lighting bugs (they were fixed eventually, kinda)
22:31 Jordach      fun fact
22:31 rubenwardy   are you going to be releasing this, Jordach?
22:31 Jordach      atmos exposes all data
22:32 Jordach      every var is configurable
22:32 rubenwardy   or is this some proprietary thing
22:32 Jordach      cloud thiccness
22:32 Jordach      etc
22:32 Jordach      https://jordach.net/6S4zUM.png
22:32 rdococ       Jordach, a word of advice: the best place to hold your beer is in your body.
22:32 Jordach      rubenwardy, even better, hold my fucking bleach
22:32 rubenwardy   jesus
22:33 rubenwardy   do you know about dictionaries?
22:33 Jordach      there's a reason
22:33 Jordach      overridability
22:33 Jordach      mods just depend and that's it
22:33 rubenwardy   atmos.register_weather({ colour = xx, type = 3})
22:33 Fixer        Jordach: 0.4.15 /triggered
22:33 rubenwardy   you can override dictionaries :D
22:33 Jordach      https://jordach.net/lY3SVy.png
22:33 Jordach      Fixer, hmmmmmm
22:33 rubenwardy   that code looks like when I didn't know about classes in python back in the day
22:34 rdococ       atmos.register_weather = function () print("no weather 4u") end
22:34 rubenwardy   wrong
22:34 rubenwardy   atmos.register_weather = function () error("no weather 4u") end
22:34 rubenwardy   function atmos.register_weather() error("no weather 4u") end
22:35 Fixer        OOM
22:35 rubenwardy   no one such = function()
22:35 rubenwardy   *should
22:35 rdococ       I always = function ().
22:35 rubenwardy   ew :)
22:35 Fixer        why bother when you got OOM in the end :)
22:35 rdococ       atmos.register_weather = function () print("no weather 4u"); while true do end end; minetest.register_globalstep(function () atmos.register_weather() end)
22:35 rdococ       -- Ehehehehehe...
22:36 Jordach      rubenwardy, remember, most of this is designed for serverside use
22:36 Jordach      it's just easier to organise things even if there's plenty of them
22:36 Jordach      bonus easter egg
22:36 Jordach      atmos.weather_cloud_thicc[3] = 16
22:36 Jordach      these clouds, are indeed thicc
22:38 Fixer        rdococ: huehuehue*
22:40 IhrFussel    bestmod = {} bestmod.function1 = function() blah end) bestmod.function2 = function() blah blah end) =P
22:41 rubenwardy   that code has two syntax errors
22:41 rubenwardy   Error: Expected EOF, found )
22:44 IhrFussel    bestmod = {} bestmod.function1 = function() print("blah") end bestmod.function2 = function() print("blah blah") end ...
22:49 IhrFussel    I mostly work with minetest callbacks in Lua that's why I added the "end)"
22:59 sofar        heh, seems I missed out a bunch of relevant discussion regarding ITB
22:59 sofar        just to clarify, if that's even possible
23:00 sofar        the goal of ITB is to create a self-improving content stream that is playable online
23:00 Fixer        shadow render in beta 1.7.3 -> https://i.imgur.com/4ceSOY9.png
23:00 sofar        ITB in offline mode has no purpose
23:00 sofar        making a puzzle for yourself is rather silly
23:01 Fixer        disregard my screenshot - bad example
23:01 Fixer        will find smth better
23:02 sofar        it's possible that someone could make a "single player box adventure" out of it, though, with just a set of precompiled boxes and content to make it all run
23:04 sofar        currently the music used isn't even licensed in an appropriate way to package it with minetest
23:04 sofar        since it's -NC
23:17 Fixer        better example of shadow in mc beta: https://i.imgur.com/1WcUlDE.png
23:18 Calinou      yeah, smooth lighting didn't apply on water
23:18 Calinou      (does it do so, now?)
23:18 Calinou      (in Minecraft 1.1.2)
23:18 Calinou      1.12*
23:33 Fixer        don't remember
23:33 Fixer        in minetest it applies on water
23:33 Fixer        looks nice