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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-10-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:44 * Natechip read writes his website
00:56 paramat hm now there's #AngelX007GR' doing it too
00:57 paramat 2 posts reported
00:59 Natechip paramat: doing?
01:01 paramat just the usual server thread whining 'y u ban me!?'
01:04 Natechip hehe
01:05 paramat i suspect i won't be made a forum moderator because i would be too good at it ;]
01:06 rubenwardy is swearing allowed on the forums?
01:09 Shara It has seemed tolerated.
01:10 benrob0329 I would assume an excess of it might get you a warning
01:11 rubenwardy I'm not really sure what to do with those replies
01:12 Shara I'm scared to ask which...
01:12 rubenwardy the complaints are mostly becoming circular
01:12 rubenwardy Xanadu
01:13 Shara ugh
01:14 Natechip i thought the server doesnt take players
01:14 Shara To be honest, I think if a server admin asks for their thread to be cleared of such junk, it should be.
01:14 Natechip i thought it has border on
01:15 Shara Natechip: servers that use borders generally have good reason to
01:16 Shara I've done the same thing on several occasions
01:16 Natechip Shara: so have I, i dont see why Xanadu has it on
01:17 rubenwardy I'm generally against censoring criticism, and I don't know much about the context. I'm inclined to believe that they were banned with a reason and told this reason, and they're just kicking up a fuss for the sake of it
01:17 Shara rubenwardy: criticism is one thing, but pages of derailed topic where it's just the same thing over and over?
01:18 Shara And it's not like this seems unique to the Xanadu topic either
01:18 Natechip that is true Shara
01:18 Natechip ive had a few cases where ppl are asking to be unbanned
01:20 Sokomine fixer: looks very nice. is that plant in mtg now?
01:20 Shara I don't have forum topics precisely because I don't want this kidn of nonsense to deal with.
01:20 Shara kind*
01:21 Natechip id rather use a GitHub Pages website
01:21 Natechip lol
01:21 Sokomine perhaps you ought to ask tenplus1 regarding the xanandu thread. he ought to at least be able to figure out what's going on
01:21 Shara I have a site where I post news for the servers.
01:21 Flairieve joined #minetest-hub
01:21 Natechip Shara: link
01:22 Shara rc.minetest.tv
01:22 Shara It's nothing too fancy, but does the job
01:23 rubenwardy here's mine: https://ctf.rubenwardy.com/
01:23 Shara Ugh, rubenwardy's site wins :(
01:23 Natechip lol
01:24 Natechip :)
01:24 rubenwardy :)
01:24 rubenwardy I need to get my CTF stats to HTML script up again
01:24 Natechip rubenwardy I love the pure CSS and HTML5 there
01:24 Shara So clean.
01:24 Natechip just beautiful
01:25 jas_ wow there's a pr for bindable dig/place... after all this time i might be able to use mouse2 to +moveup again.  :')
01:29 rubenwardy it would make me feel lot better to hand out temp bans if they had actually said their ban reasons, and they kept arguing
01:30 Flairieve hi
01:30 Shara Hello and welcome.
01:32 Flairieve So I was wondering can minetest.after because used only to wait for five seconds without calling any functions?
01:32 Natechip Shara how is sban
01:32 Shara Working well, as is sauth
01:38 Natechip ool
01:38 Natechip cool
01:38 Shara Flairieve: what are you hoping to do?
01:41 Flairieve I was going to try and make a little query machine that mine a 16x16 grid and it mines a block every five seconds
01:42 Shara So it runs continuously?
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01:49 Flairieve Yea it runs continuously until it can find no more nodes
01:49 Flairieve I was also going to plan it so you could upgrade the amount of time it takes to mine a node
01:54 Shara If it wasn't so late here, I would be tempted to play around to try and solve it.
01:55 paramat unfortunately i can't see a rule about swearing in the forum
01:56 paramat but it shouldn't be allowed, because if it was, the forum would become unbearable
01:56 rubenwardy I don't think it should be fully disallowed, but dissuaded
01:57 rubenwardy so the occasional s-word is fine, but not every post :/
01:57 Shara Difficulty is deciding where to draw the line.
01:58 rubenwardy it's not that bad currently outside of that thread
01:58 Flairieve Why not censor the cuss words in black boxes were someone has to hover over them to reveal them?
01:59 Flairieve Though cussing is no issue to me
01:59 rubenwardy Scunthorpe
01:59 rubenwardy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
01:59 Flairieve ah ok nvm
01:59 VanessaE ..not to mention people will always find a way around such filters.
01:59 VanessaE ass -> a$$ and so on.
02:00 Shara I also don't think it really helps people who are bothered by the words.
02:00 Shara Might even encourage people to swear more.
02:00 Flairieve I'm not bothered by any word or cuss word I'm fine with it I was just suggesting ways if you wanted to censor some words :P
02:01 Shara Flairieve: Personally I couldn't care, but it's about what sort of impression if makes... Given MT is played by children, and can be used in educational settings.
02:02 Shara it*
02:02 paramat yeah
02:02 Shara (and yes,I'm fully aware children can be the worst offenders and certainly say it elsewhere - but that's not the point)
02:03 paramat a teacher has told me they can lose their job over language in the code, so we removed all WTFPL licenses
02:04 Shara I've had parents play with their children on my servers. Main thing they have cared about is whether the chat their children are exposed to is appropriate
02:04 paramat there's still some fruity language in the C++ code
02:06 VanessaE "fruity"...
02:06 VanessaE now that's a new way to describe it. :)
02:06 Shara :D
02:07 Shara I was trying to resist :P
02:07 paramat hehe
02:09 paramat anyway yes 'dissuaded', and of course it depends on the words used
02:10 paramat and the frequency
02:12 Shara And whether they are specifically directed at someone or just general.
02:16 paramat crumbs that leave message =/ =)
02:17 Shara paramat: they don't really bother me
02:17 rubenwardy doesn't bother me :P
02:21 paramat ok i'll disable them for myself then :]
02:23 Shara :)
02:23 Shara But getting late. Good night.
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04:04 * benrob0329 sets #1235 down, and walks away
04:21 * Natechip picks up #1235 and runs from benrob0329
04:27 Flairieve Shouldn't z be up and down
04:27 benrob0329 Flairieve: different standards for axis
04:27 benrob0329 Left vs right hand I believe
04:28 Flairieve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesi​an_coordinate_system#Three_dimensions
04:28 Flairieve It shows on wikipedia that Z axis goes up and down
04:28 benrob0329 There are two standards
04:28 benrob0329 Some things use Z up and others use Z depth
04:29 Flairieve So I guess Y acts like Z?
04:29 Flairieve and Z acts like Y?
04:30 benrob0329 Yes, I suppose
04:31 Flairieve Wikipedia only just shows the default I don't see why Minetest is using Y as Z? That is really confusing.
04:31 benrob0329 Z is the extra axis when going from 2D to 3D, X and Y are historically 2D screen space. So it would make sense that computers would use z as depth
04:31 Flairieve well I suppose that makes little bit of sense?
04:35 benrob0329 Flairieve: https://www.blender.org/fo​rum/viewtopic.php?t=11337
04:35 Flairieve I also guess that make 90deg up right pixel art is more easier since you just have to focus on x and y lol
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08:36 red-001 whats with the forum and an obsession with god? There was that forum thread and half the signitures are about it
08:39 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
09:01 Raven262 red-001, That was kids debating stuff that they know nothing about.
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10:35 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:40 DI3HARD139 Quick question. I'm still relatively new to registering nodes so this confused the ____ out of me. Not sure if this is a compatibility issue with technic or 'slopes' of the moreblocks mod. https://pastebin.com/sBe4N1Pq
10:42 neinwhal2 joined #minetest-hub
10:42 red-001 wb neinwhal2
10:43 neinwhal woops
11:30 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
12:14 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
12:39 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
12:40 atorian37 what is it about when a player tells me that since the update from 0.4.15 to 0.4.16 he cannot run anymore? I made an update to 0.4.16 and forced the strict protocol so he had to update the client too
13:04 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
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13:10 atorian37 joined #minetest-hub
13:30 Fixer his hacks no longer work? %)
13:34 atorian37 no idea what he means...^O^
13:37 red-001 atorian37, do they have fast?
13:48 lisac joined #minetest-hub
13:51 CWz joined #minetest-hub
13:52 CWz is there a way to combat this: https://github.com/red-001/colour_chat.git
13:53 Shara CWz: Bans work well :)
13:54 * Shara can't wait for the ability to disable CSM
13:54 red-001 CWz, filter colours
13:54 red-001 I think it got into 0.4.16
13:54 CWz how
13:54 red-001 it's a server setting
13:54 Shara I didn't think that was in stable for some reason
13:55 red-001 oh you are right
13:55 Shara I mostly hate how it messes up my logs.
13:55 Shara So players currently get a warning, and if they refuse to disable it, they can leave.
13:56 Shara I've never yet actually needed to bans omeone though.
13:56 Shara Most are pretty understanding if you explain to them.
13:56 red-001 what data was 0.4.16 released on again?
13:56 red-001 date*
13:56 Shara June 3rd?
13:56 Shara I think
13:57 DI3HARD139 That'd be correct
13:57 red-001 ahh it was merged on jun 10
13:57 CWz is there any way to port the setting to 0.4.16
13:58 Shara I think quite a few server owners voiced frustration around then
13:58 red-001 should be possible
13:58 red-001 I will open a pr for backporting it
13:58 CWz thanks
13:58 Shara :)
14:04 DI3HARD139 @CWz "strip_color_codes = true"
14:05 DI3HARD139 in the minetest.conf
14:05 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
14:08 IhrFussel Hello there
14:08 DI3HARD139 Hello IhrFussel
14:12 IhrFussel I modified the mobs redo API a lot... owned mobs receive EXP when they kill other mobs and can level up ... owned mobs will heal every 2 secs a bit if they are not in a battle ... aggressive mobs have a permanent nametag color
14:12 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
14:13 IhrFussel And the nametag doesn't switch between name/HP modes ... the name + HP can be seen at all times now
14:27 red-001 CWz, Shara https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6541
14:33 Fixer everybody move your body
14:44 Natechip Fixer: okay!!
14:45 CalebDavis hi Nate
14:56 ThomasMonroe hey Natechip
14:56 red-001 everybody do the flop
14:56 red-001 and Vapourwave
14:56 benrob0329 *splat*
14:57 benrob0329 \/music plays
15:06 * ThomasMonroe gets a kink in the back from dancing terribly
15:14 * jas_ does the salmon dance
15:24 * CalebDavis does the CD flop
15:24 CalebDavis thats when i trip and slide across the floor
15:39 ThomasMonroe XD
15:39 ThomasMonroe as usual
15:39 CalebDavis XD
15:53 neinwhal left #minetest-hub
15:55 Krock joined #minetest-hub
16:11 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
16:11 tenplus1 hi folks
16:17 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:17 tenplus1 o/ paramat
16:18 Shara Hi Ten
16:18 tenplus1 hi Shara
16:18 CalebDavis hi ten
16:18 tenplus1 hey caleb
16:20 * twoelk waves a late o/
16:20 tenplus1 ehe, hi twoelk
16:24 * tenplus1 has noms
16:26 benrob0329 Hi tenplus1
16:26 tenplus1 h ben
16:26 tenplus1 *hi :P
16:33 rubenwardy hi all o/
16:34 paramat Shara i made this high priority https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5334 "Auth.txt causing large lag spikes" if helpful maybe you could add comments from your experience?
16:34 tenplus1 hi ruben, thanks for that post on forum :P
16:37 Krock hi tenplus1
16:37 tenplus1 hi Krock :)
16:41 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
16:41 * sofar wonders if Twoelk ever will redo his box
16:42 twoelk ?
16:42 tenplus1 hi Darcidride
16:42 tenplus1 Box Redo... ehehehe
16:42 sofar wasn't it you who submitted a box on Inside the Box?
16:42 sofar maybe someone else with a similar name
16:43 tenplus1 how many boxes you got now sofar ?
16:43 sofar http://minetest.foo-projects.org/boxes.html
16:43 sofar about 50, there's some that are in 2 series
16:43 * twoelk tries to disengage his brain from work and rushes to the mt department in the attics of his brain, looks around - is puzzled
16:44 tenplus1 heh
16:44 twoelk don't think I made any boxes lately
16:44 sofar must have been someone else then :)
16:44 twoelk seems so
16:45 sofar tenplus1: seems we're doing 2-3 decent boxes a week, so, if we keep this up for a year or so we'll have 200+ boxes
16:45 twoelk no, I'm pretty sure now I never made any boxes on your server :-(
16:45 tenplus1 not bad... the list grows ;P
16:45 sofar twoelk: tssss, what a shame :)
16:45 twoelk indeed
16:45 twoelk lots of rl work lately
16:46 sofar yeah, that was the goal - get a content creation flow that sustains itself
16:46 sofar it's not even so bad that players play for a few weeks, build a box or two, and then only come back once in a while
16:46 sofar with new boxes coming out once in a while, they'll keep hopping back on
16:47 sofar I might have to do some newsletter or mailing, at some point
16:48 Shara paramat: replied there before I even saw your message :)
16:48 twoelk actually I do have a handfull of projects on different servers that I do still keep thinking about - but - alas so little time - the dark season is approaching so hopefully I'll get more time for minetest
16:49 tenplus1 I hear ya twoelk... so little time indeed
16:51 Darcidride Hi everyone
16:52 tenplus1 o/
16:52 twoelk for example xanadu - big plans I still have there - did some measuring lately, redid some basic plans - not much to be seen though
16:52 tenplus1 I redid lucky blocks to have a more random selection, players were getting fancy armor too easily :D
16:53 paramat thanks
16:53 twoelk sometimes I just forget the time in them tunnels and caves or simply wandering through the beauty of the landscape
16:53 tenplus1 mapgens can be very interesting, even the new carth one
16:54 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:54 tenplus1 hi nrz
16:58 nerzhul hi tenplus1
17:14 Raven262 Hi tenplus1
17:14 tenplus1 hi raven
17:15 nerzhul please vote: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6542
17:16 tenplus1 wait, I thought we were going straight to 0.5.0 ???
17:16 VanessaE nerzhul: I think we need a list of 0.4.17 milestones first.
17:16 tenplus1 o/ Vanessa
17:16 VanessaE hi
17:16 sofar 0.4.17 is a bugfix release, it shouldn't have milestones
17:17 VanessaE sofar: s/milestones/changes/
17:17 Krock ^ only a list of bugs to backport
17:17 nerzhul 0.4.17 is a milestone iself
17:17 Krock s/bugs/bugfixes/
17:17 VanessaE not only bugs, but one or two feature-ish things
17:17 sofar Krock: lol, bugs to backport :P
17:17 VanessaE (like colored itemstack drop inheritance)
17:17 Krock sofar, yeah. the mistake was not intended :3
17:19 nerzhul tenplus1, we are going to 0.5.0 but it's accepted that we will have a bugfix 0.4.17 release (without mtg which goes to 0.5) to fix core engine issue during the devel time
17:20 nerzhul red-001, i'm anoying to see you don't reproduced the problem, did you use windows threads or linux on mingw ?
17:20 nerzhul red-001, because i'm building with VS
17:20 nerzhul wow GH implemented now the create label on addition, gitlab has it since ages :p
17:21 jas_ let's go five oh
17:22 tenplus1 +1...  would rather have a new base for mods to build from rather than 0.4.17
17:23 red-001 nerzhul, I honestly don't know I just went with whatever default the cross compiler used
17:23 VanessaE tenplus1: there will be both; my servers will stay on the 0.4.x branch for the time being
17:23 VanessaE (which is also why I keep harassing people to make sure 0.4.17 gets what we need)
17:23 paramat everyone will have their own little feature they want in 0.4.17 so it's risky to allow that as there will be so many, and how to decide?
17:23 tenplus1 will 0.4.17 have the player model changes ? cauyse that's a big thigns we need to address
17:24 nerzhul red-001, how many times did you played ? did you have crash on returning back to main menu
17:24 VanessaE paramat: as already said, bugfixes only, and imho feature-ish things where it isn't a bug, per se, but oversights that if left uncorrected make some other existing feature not work right
17:24 paramat player y offset?
17:25 red-001 nerzhul, I spent around 20-30 minutes testing it, tried a lot of stuff and it didn't crash
17:25 tenplus1 yeah paramat, the new player y offset.... cause mods NEED to start building with that change in mind
17:25 nerzhul tenplus1, 0.4.17 = 0.4.16 in terms of mod api
17:25 paramat the offset is very much a 0.5 breaking change so i doubt it
17:25 nerzhul red-001, it's nice then
17:26 red-001 maybe VS hasn't implemented some part of the standard? They have bad history with that
17:26 nerzhul red-001, i think it's issue with windows thread, i should investigate, the whole thing works as intended, just windows crash randomly
17:26 nerzhul red-001, they implemented it toally, but some resources are concurently freed, it's the crash, and i don't know why it'so nly on windows
17:30 benrob0329 (Offtopic) https://www.scmagazine.com/campaign-lever​ages-two-malicious-docs-and-rce-vulnerabi​lity-to-spread-orcus-rat/article/700353/
17:31 red-001 benrob0329, let me guess another remoute code execution exploit in ms word?
17:32 benrob0329 red-001: yup
17:32 benrob0329 Someone remind me why Word is so popular...
17:32 benrob0329 Because I don't see why anymore
17:32 red-001 something something vendor lock-in
17:34 benrob0329 Something something software not worth its keep
17:38 Flairieve joined #minetest-hub
17:39 tenplus1 hi Flairieve
17:39 Krock tenplus1, dead end. No voice
17:39 tenplus1 ehehehe
17:40 Flairieve Is there an update.exe or any sort of program that updates Minetest if you ran it?
17:40 tenplus1 sadly not Flairieve
17:40 tenplus1 gotta goto the download page and click unstable for any recent builds...
17:41 tenplus1 but it's better to run stable release
17:42 benrob0329 Do we push minetest binaries to Github Releases?
17:43 tenplus1 I always get latest versions from launchpad link
17:44 sofar we don't post binaries on github releases, at all
17:44 Flairieve I wish I can run .sh files on windows because they are more cooler than .bat files :P
17:44 sofar wait, lol
17:45 sofar I take that back
17:45 sofar there's apk's and sfan5's builds
17:45 benrob0329 Do we have any standard repo for binaries?
17:45 Calinou we could have Minetest on https://scoop.sh
17:45 Calinou I can add it if you want
17:45 Calinou it's pretty easy
17:45 Calinou that's for Windows only, though
17:46 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
17:46 tenplus1 hi behalebabo
17:46 Calinou benrob0329: there's no official Linux binaries, currently
17:46 Calinou only Windows
17:46 behalebabo hello
17:46 Calinou macOS is provided via Homebrew, which works well
17:46 sofar distros release binaries for linux
17:46 Calinou (non-developers rarely have Homebrew installed, though)
17:46 Calinou sofar: yeah, and these are rarely up-to-date :(
17:46 benrob0329 Calinou: SSL cert is invaled
17:46 sofar use a better distro
17:46 Calinou benrob0329: oh, right: http://scoop.sh/
17:47 Calinou sofar: unfortunately, lots of people still use LTS distros on desktops, and that's not going to change soon
17:47 Calinou and even on Arch Linux, you can have a delay of a few days :P
17:47 benrob0329 sofar: thats not a good answer
17:47 Calinou which is more than you'd like, when the protocol breaks
17:47 sofar it's not a good answer for some people
17:47 sofar server operators shouldn't break protocol for clients in the first 2 days after a release
17:48 tenplus1 would be nice to have a .tar.gz dev build so I can run in place without affecting the isntalled stable release
17:48 benrob0329 sofar: Sure, me and you like up to date distros, but some like stable
17:48 sofar flatpak could solve that problem better
17:49 sofar it also can update, so
17:49 benrob0329 Flatpak...no, just no
17:49 sofar weh weh weh
17:49 nerzhul Calinou, there is official FreeBSD ports and Debian backport
17:49 nerzhul (official from the maintainers, not mt coredevs)
17:49 sofar :)
17:49 Calinou nerzhul: yes, and these are still rarely up-to-date
17:49 Calinou you know, I'll just PR AppImage builds on GitLab CI
17:49 nerzhul https://packages.debian.org​/stretch-backports/minetest
17:50 Calinou this way, we can point users to them and we can shut up about this :P
17:50 Calinou we've struggled with this long enough
17:50 nerzhul Calinou, i didn't see the PR
17:50 benrob0329 sofar: we dont need another package manager for something as simple as unpacking a zip
17:50 tenplus1 hi Cal
17:50 benrob0329 Calinou: thanks
17:50 Calinou hi
17:50 sofar I don't have issues with someone making a generic linux binary build
17:50 sofar just go and do it
17:50 sofar however
17:50 Calinou yeah, but the point is making it at least semi-official
17:50 Calinou else, users won't use it
17:51 sofar you better make sure you use slackware 10 to build it and you have to include ALL the dependencies if you want to make it work everywhere
17:51 sofar e.g. a static build
17:51 Calinou Ubuntu 14.04 works well enough for this
17:51 Calinou no need to support ridiculously old distros, it's pretty old already
17:51 sofar just go and do it
17:51 Calinou it's hard enough to build Minetest on Ubuntu 14.04, you know :P
17:51 Calinou (i.e. it doesn't work out of the box)
17:51 benrob0329 Appimages are basically static binaries, but arent static binaries
17:51 Calinou benrob0329: they still contain .so files inside
17:51 sofar could probably do it in a VM, scriptable
17:51 Calinou (unless the original binary has everything statically linked)
17:52 Calinou sofar: GitLab CI :)
17:52 nerzhul Calinou, do appimages and push PR it becomes semi official
17:52 Calinou nerzhul: we'd need to upload the binaries somewhere too, GitLab CI's UI isn't made for end users to download binaries
17:52 Calinou it works, but it's very imperfect
17:52 Calinou this is like exposing Jenkins (I'm looking at you, Minecraft mods)
17:52 Krock LEEEROY JEEEENKINS
17:53 tenplus1 lol
17:53 sofar gitlab does some stuff good, and sucks on some other stuff
17:53 tenplus1 gitlab is annoying
17:55 Calinou it's probably intentional
17:55 Calinou CI platforms don't want masses of users taking their bandwidth :)
17:58 sfan5 did someone mention flatpack, snaps and appimage?
17:58 sfan5 cos we don't really need any of those
17:58 sfan5 you can build "semi-static" linux builds just fine and package them into a tar.gz
17:58 Calinou sure, but that's not standard at all
17:58 tenplus1 hi sfan
17:58 Calinou there's no standard directory structure for this
17:58 Calinou and no guarantee it works in the long run
17:58 Calinou you also don't get the AppImage benefits
17:59 Calinou (desktop integration, GPG signing without an extra file, built-in compression, automatic updates)
17:59 Calinou my Godot builds use AppImage and nobody complains :)
17:59 tenplus1 am only wondering about .tar.gz so I can test latest builds with mod changes without having to uninstall stable
18:00 Krock not a problem when compiling them as RUN_IN_PLACE
18:01 Krock well, only as long builtin doesn't change.
18:01 sfan5 what do you mean by "no guarantee"? it's not like statically linking libraries might just become impossible at some point
18:02 sfan5 the number of libraries not statically linked would be minimal (glibc, libGL, some x11 stuff, openal)
18:02 Calinou sure
18:02 Calinou either way, static linking by hand is tiresome
18:02 Calinou I've never got it to work myself
18:02 Calinou whereas dynamically linking libraries, and embedding them into an AppImage, is much easier and doesn't require recompiling
18:02 Calinou (so it works with proprietary software you don't have the source to!)
18:07 Flairieve So is there anyway to run .sh files on windows?
18:07 sofar linking libGL would be yucky
18:07 tenplus1 yes, run virtualbox with linux in it :PPPP
18:07 sofar openal fine
18:07 Calinou sofar: yes, it shouldn't be done, AppImage blacklists some libraries and will never bundle them
18:07 Calinou Flairieve: on Windows 10, you can install "Bash on Ubuntu on Windows", however it's not meant to be used by end users
18:07 sofar curl/vorbis sure
18:08 Calinou Flairieve: that said, what do you want to run a .sh script for?
18:08 sofar rm -rf *
18:10 benrob0329 Flairieve: probably Bash in the Windows Store
18:10 benrob0329 (Yes, that abomination)
18:10 Calinou that's what I meant, yeah
18:10 Calinou you won't see it in the Windows Store, by the way
18:11 Calinou also, HYPE https://media.hugo.pro/Application​FrameHost_2017-10-17_20-03-24.png
18:11 Calinou (for the first element, not the second one)
18:11 Calinou brace yourselves, the Windows 10 Fall Creators update is coming :)
18:11 sfan5 >using windows 10
18:11 benrob0329 Calinou: did they pull it down?
18:11 Calinou it's being deployed starting from today
18:11 Calinou sfan5: I've been considering switching back to Linux, but I don't think I'll try anytime soon
18:12 Calinou (I don't need Office/Adobe for uni anymore)
18:12 sofar ugh, win10. my windows box refuses all windows update
18:12 benrob0329 #LomuxMasterRace
18:12 sofar some darn update file is stuck somewhere and it can't update
18:12 sofar failsauce
18:12 Calinou that sucks
18:12 Calinou on my laptop, Steam screwed up the download of… Wolfenstein 3D
18:12 sofar (and this is why I don't boot windows more than once a year)
18:12 Calinou with file access errors
18:12 Calinou so it's permanently in my download list
18:12 Calinou and I can't remove it :D
18:13 Calinou (I needed to get the game data, I copied the game data to my NAS anyway, so I don't need Steam anymore)
18:18 nerzhul you can run sh files with cygwin
18:19 tenplus1 Cal, try Xubuntu 17.10... it's pretty stable and fast
18:19 sfan5 is 17.10 out yet?
18:20 tenplus1 19th is final release day... but it's stable as can be and has a ton of new driver support and GFX driver updates
18:20 tenplus1 and repo has newer 0.1.46 build :D
18:21 Flairieve "Cygwin is not:
18:21 Flairieve a way to run native Linux apps on Windows. You must rebuild your application from source if you want it to run on Windows."
18:21 Calinou tenplus1: I'd use either Manjaro or Fedora
18:22 Calinou *buntus are nice, but the packages are quite out of date, even on non-LTS releases
18:22 Flairieve It says its not a native way to run linux files on Windows?
18:22 Calinou Flairieve: Cygwin is not a way to run any Linux application on Windows
18:22 Calinou (the WSL, a.k.a. "Bash on Ubuntu on Windows", is much closer to that)
18:22 Calinou also, Cygwin is slow and fairly clunky to install/use
18:22 tenplus1 e4nable the dev repo's... gives you newer stuffs
18:22 Calinou also, I prefer having the AUR at hand :)
18:23 Calinou which Manjaro provides out of the box
18:23 tenplus1 what's aur ???
18:24 tenplus1 ohh, arch user repo
18:24 tenplus1 whats wrong with debian repo ?
18:24 tenplus1 lolol
18:25 Calinou the AUR is very different from official distro repositories
18:25 Calinou and it's also different to Ubuntu PPAs or Fedora Copr
18:26 tenplus1 depends on the software you wanna run I suppose...  most big companies have ppa's or deb repos handy alongside rpm etc
18:29 Flairieve But can Cygwin run any type of .sh file?
18:30 tenplus1 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22722604/h​ow-to-run-sh-file-on-windows-7-through-cygwin
18:31 CWz this seems to fail compile: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6541
18:31 tenplus1 Krock: does your new boost cart changes for default carts work ok now ??
18:32 Calinou Flairieve: most of them, yes. However, if they call native programs, it won't work
18:32 benrob0329 What I find is that anymore I either build from source (if not in the official repo) or dont use the app
18:34 Flairieve https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=4&t=14283
18:34 Flairieve Would this work with Cygwin?
18:35 tenplus1 try it and see :) might do
18:35 benrob0329 sofar: ^^
18:38 sofar what about it?
18:38 sofar oh, cygwin?
18:39 sofar well so if you manually run the conversion script (and not use the zenity gui) it should work but you have to have imagemagick
18:39 sofar and, I didn't test nor am I going to test it
18:40 Flairieve Hmm so someone or me just needs to remake another mc resource or texture pack to minetest texturepack?
18:41 sofar redistributing MC's resource packs is prohibited and a copyright violation
18:41 sofar but, nothing prevents you from converting it yourself, legally
18:42 sofar so, fire up a linux VM?
18:42 tenplus1 yeah, you could easily make a bootable linux flash drive to run script on
18:42 Calinou the WSL would work for this, but just like a Linux VM, it's quite involved
18:42 Flairieve I was meaning to say to create a program for Windows to convert any mc resource/texture pack to minetest textures
18:43 sofar I've hinted in the forum thread that a go version would be good and easy to use on windows
18:43 sofar I'd never build a python version just because it's cruel to ask people to install python on windows
18:44 sofar that's like installing an anvil on the hood of a '76 corvette
18:44 sofar it looks cool, but it sucks when you brake hard
18:45 tenplus1 :P#
18:46 Flairieve Is the go language this? https://golang.org/#
18:47 tenplus1 *shudder*
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18:47 tenplus1 hi ssieb
18:47 benrob0329 sofar: write it in....brainf*ck
18:48 tenplus1 hrm, would it be possible to run it in LUA...
18:48 tenplus1 since minetest already uses that
18:48 benrob0329 tenplus1: you'd still need a lua interpreter
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18:49 benrob0329 I feel like a single C script would be nice and simple
18:49 Flairieve Wait just a second can minetest mods access os commands?
18:49 tenplus1 that's just a tiny package I add via linux that already uses lua libs installed for minetest
18:49 Krock tenplus1, there's still a pending pull. The missing pathfinder changes are still in testing but might be added soon too
18:49 tenplus1 wonder how hard it would be to add those for windows
18:49 tenplus1 kewl Krock, looking forward to testing it out...  I seen your 62 cart flyby on youtiube :P
18:50 sofar benrob0329: well the thing about C is that it's hard to make a nice and simple gui
18:50 sofar which is why something that should be as simple as it can be should have a little menu/file selector etc.
18:50 sofar so `go` would give you this and have the best cross compile ability
18:51 sofar this is how I make windows binaries from my linux box for e.g. mtmapprune and mtmediasrv
18:51 tenplus1 it's 2017... GUI should never be that hard to add... hell, I made a full GUI front-end in basic and pascal at one point that worked like AmigaGUI...
18:51 nerzhul benrob0329, C is not a script it's a programming langauge
18:51 benrob0329 https://github.com/nothings/​stb/blob/master/stb_image.h
18:51 sofar tenplus1: gui's are not hard, *portable* gui libraries do not exist
18:51 benrob0329 nerzhul: ok a single c file
18:51 sofar (easily portable, that is)
18:52 benrob0329 sofar: Nuklear?
18:52 tenplus1 woudl be nice if the c comp-ile libs included a basic gui lib as standard on ALL platforms
18:52 benrob0329 https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear
18:52 tenplus1 ooh, that looks pretty good
18:53 benrob0329 tenplus1: C11 isnt even fully implimented, let alone something like a GUI
18:53 sofar well there seem to be Nuklear bindings for golang, so that's positive
18:53 tenplus1 and works on lua :) even better
18:53 sofar https://github.com/golang-ui/nuklear
18:53 benrob0329 sofar: *sigh*
18:53 sofar I might play with that, then
18:54 benrob0329 You are really set on Go, even though you still need to install it to run the program
18:54 sofar no, go programs don't need installation
18:54 benrob0329 If you precompile
18:54 sofar a user doesn't need to install any go stuff either
18:55 tenplus1 +1million for nuklear :)
18:55 benrob0329 You'd need to precompile for every platform
18:55 sofar of course you precompile apps for users
18:55 sofar but go makes cross compilation trivial
18:55 benrob0329 A single c file is easy :-)
18:55 sofar it's like 2 seconds of work to make a windows build
18:55 sofar building C for windows... ouch
18:55 sofar are you seriously?
18:56 sofar mingw, compiler flags, dependencies, library versions, cmake or autotools
18:56 sofar golang obsoletes ALL of that
18:56 sofar I wouldn't write minetest in golang
18:56 sofar but for just run-of-the-mill tools and simple applications, hell yes
18:56 benrob0329 I have mixed feelings about Cmake
18:57 sofar cmake is a solution for the wrong problem
18:57 tenplus1 nite all... o/
18:57 benrob0329 Plain old make seems to work fine
18:57 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
18:57 benrob0329 tenplus1: gnight
18:57 benrob0329 Darn
18:57 sofar well, I wouldn't say that either
18:57 sofar lol
18:57 sofar but that's another soapbox I'm keeping clean today
18:58 benrob0329 Tbh I have nothing against Go, but also nothing for it
18:59 nerzhul nice: https://thehackernews.com/2017/10/​microsoft-bug-tracking-breach.html
19:00 benrob0329 Sure, it solves problems by being a new thing, which doesn't solve them for everything else
19:00 sofar benrob0329: that's a misconception I think, I don't think you understand what go/golang actually solves
19:00 sofar you'd have to extensively use many languages including go to figure it out
19:00 sofar golang isn't just 'a new language' by itself
19:01 sofar it solves a whole ton of problems around software delivery as well
19:01 sofar it doesn't solve anything "by being a new thing" at all
19:02 benrob0329 sofar: its a modern, simple, compiled language which uses garbage collection and was built with the web in mind, and has an official package manager
19:02 sofar now you're just copying a wikipedia summary
19:02 benrob0329 I didn't look at Wikipedia
19:03 benrob0329 I've just looked at Go
19:03 benrob0329 And Rust, D, etc
19:04 benrob0329 They all try to solve many of the same issues
19:04 benrob0329 And I can respect that
19:07 sofar hmm, so nuklear isn't so bad except that it doesn't present a modal window system - everything goes on a single canvas
19:07 sofar this is fine for MT and simple apps, of course
19:07 nerzhul benrob0329, go is to replace java in web applications in industry yes
19:07 nerzhul and has a good network support, but it's not as high performing as C++
19:07 sofar but poses some issues for more complex applications
19:08 benrob0329 sofar: a modal window system? You mean multiple windows?
19:08 sofar yes, multiple independent windows
19:08 benrob0329 I believe every nk_start() creates a new window
19:08 benrob0329 There is an issue about it
19:08 sofar right, essentially that would be the only way around that
19:12 Flairieve Is there any image editing libaries for C++?
19:12 sofar ImageMagick, libgd
19:12 sofar they're C but that'll do
19:13 benrob0329 sofar: I kinda prefer single window applications that have internal popups, its easier than constantly moving new windows around
19:13 benrob0329 I always set GIMP to single window mode
19:14 benrob0329 Blender is a good mix of the two, ot defaults to single window but can spawn multiple windows if need be
19:14 sofar sure, but a file chooser in the OS style is not a bad concept
19:14 sofar blender's file chooser is a good example of an extreme that takes it too far for most normal people
19:14 benrob0329 No, but for something this small I think a custom one is fine
19:15 sofar also, a small application writer shouldn't have to design a file chooser UI
19:15 benrob0329 Blender is not for normal people :-)
19:15 sofar that's just defeat, right there
19:16 benrob0329 I don't mind Blender's file chooser, it uses Blender keys so I don't gave to switch workflows
19:16 benrob0329 *have
19:16 Flairieve https://github.com/leafo/magick
19:16 red-001 os file choosers ftw
19:16 Flairieve Lua bindings to ImageMagik?
19:16 benrob0329 red-001: what's a native file chooser anyways, I dont have one :P
19:17 sofar writing a windows application in lua seems... well, not optimal
19:17 benrob0329 In order for applications to use my preferred file manager, they would have to open a temrinal with ranger :P
19:17 sofar but, interesting for in-MT server use perhaps
19:17 red-001 anyway what did I miss? What started this conversation?
19:17 sofar benrob0329 did
19:17 sofar blame him
19:18 benrob0329 Lol
19:18 * sofar lolz
19:18 red-001 git blame benrob0329
19:18 Fixer LOL
19:18 sofar fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
19:18 red-001 fatal: cannot stat path 'benrob0329': No such file or directory
19:19 benrob0329 First it was asking about running the MC to MT pack converter, then writing it cross platform, then what language, then C headers for PNG and GUI, then Go, then Native dialogs and multiple windows, then this
19:22 benrob0329 git checkout newtopic
19:24 sofar I believe we're still on topic here
19:24 red-001 error: pathspec 'newtopic' did not match any file(s) known to git.
19:25 sofar afk lunch
19:37 benrob0329 I still have the tail end of a cold, and I feel like I should dab every time I cough...
19:38 benrob0329 But then again this isn't Oregon, wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea :PP
19:38 nerzhul https://twitter.com/Vlastimil_H​ovan/status/919971533451382786
20:02 Calinou hmm, adding AppImage builds to GitLab CI will be harder than I thought
20:03 Calinou I'll need to write new macros and everything :/
20:03 Calinou especially since the server shouldn't be built for AppImages
20:03 Calinou (only the client is needed)
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20:30 Fixer =*,,,,,,,*=
20:31 Fixer testing time https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6540
20:34 IhrFussel Question: If a client mod digs a node on the map (in case that's possible) will it be logged?
20:34 red-001 if it will be then yes
20:34 red-001 but it wouldn't be
20:35 IhrFussel You mean it's not possible right now?
20:35 benrob0329 I would assume that if a clientod digs a node, it'd be the same as if the user dug one
20:35 red-001 IhrFussel, yes that what I'm saying
20:35 benrob0329 So, the node the user is looking at could be dug
20:35 Calinou the client mod will send the same packet as a human client action
20:35 red-001 that's&
20:35 Calinou so, yes, it will be logged on the server
20:35 benrob0329 If it were my design,.anyways
20:35 Calinou (and rollback will be available)
20:36 red-001 IhrFussel, are you asking for a particular reason or just in-general?
20:36 IhrFussel I have a suspicious player on my server who talked about client side modding and then later asked me what the most valuable material is...so I kinda want to watch how frequently he finds those ores
20:37 benrob0329 IhrFussel: tell him dirt is
20:37 benrob0329 No, coal
20:38 red-001 IhrFussel, tell them it's nyancats
20:38 red-001 with how rare they are oredetect wouldn't help much
20:40 IhrFussel What radius does oredetect scan in?
20:41 benrob0329 Way too much
20:41 red-001 custom but according to dev and common sense not enough for nyancats
20:41 red-001 maybe max 40 or 60
20:42 IhrFussel My server has several rare ores though... diamond, silver, mithril, rainbow, mese
20:43 IhrFussel So I should watch the log very closely and compare the times between ore findings of players
20:43 nerzhul Fixer, IhrFussel i cannot reproduce the crash either on VS with current network version areyou able ?
20:43 nerzhul i think code is enough stable for integration now :)
20:44 Fixer i will check it out sometime
20:44 IhrFussel nerzhul, can I still use git fetch nerzhul -p && git checkout nerzhul/network_asio ?
20:45 nerzhul yeah no change
20:51 IhrFussel When is the crash supposed to happen?
20:57 red-001 nerzhul, how did you store the privledge list in the db?
21:03 nerzhul it's a separated table
21:03 nerzhul user,priv
21:03 nerzhul IhrFussel, if i knew it i can reproduce it and fix it heh :p
21:03 nerzhul but we can tell ~ 15-20 mins of gameplay are sufficient
21:17 Fixer IhrFussel: during play
21:17 Fixer i have in a few minutes usually
21:18 Fixer fuuuu, forgot to turn on my PARTICLE reader
21:18 Fixer also, wth F6 does not have particle count?
21:23 IhrFussel Joined almost 2,000 secs ago and no crash (yet)
21:23 Fixer play as usual
21:23 Fixer it may need more time
21:25 IhrFussel Fixer, any particular actions you do right before it crashes?
21:26 Fixer nope
21:26 Fixer walking
21:28 IhrFussel Any chance the crash is Windows-specific?
21:29 Fixer yes
21:29 Fixer are you on win?
21:33 Fixer uuuck
21:33 Fixer error: 'm_particles' was not declared in this scope
21:34 IhrFussel No I have Xubuntu lol...so maybe I can't even help?
21:35 Fixer IhrFussel: you can still help, by testing it in general during gameplay
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21:36 Fixer IhrFussel: i will join later, i'm planning to have fun with some faucets
21:37 IhrFussel I am...currently driving on my boat
21:37 Fixer someone said mobile apps are not new, that means NEW pervert way to nuke them out can be usedc
21:38 Fixer 0.4.14 or maybe 0.4.15
21:38 Fixer by placing fau-cluster (say 20 faucets) and enabling them will cause armageddon for everything on entire server below 0.4.15
21:38 Fixer iirc
21:46 Fixer srp func warning
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22:16 IhrFussel Can't reproduce any kind of crash, gameplay was 100% smooth
22:17 nerzhul IhrFussel, nice !
22:17 nerzhul i hope Fixer will have same thing
22:17 Fixer nerzhul: have you actually looked into my crashes or just hoping?
22:18 nerzhul i looked at them, and added some cleanups which will help
22:18 nerzhul i should go to bed, brb
22:21 Fixer particle test fail, they did not render for homedecor for some reason
22:21 Fixer jas_: can confirm image overlay problem or how it is called
22:24 Fixer lets push faucets to their limits
22:24 Fixer when 10 faucets is not enough (lower fps from 217 to 45)
22:25 Fixer 22 fps...
22:25 Fixer when 20 faucets - 3700 particles
22:26 Fixer intensifying
22:26 Fixer 5600 particles - 14 fps
22:28 Fixer 8500 particles - 6 fps
22:29 Fixer 60 faucets
22:29 Fixer no wait
22:29 Fixer 11 000 particles
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22:31 Fixer mOORE
22:32 Fixer 90 faucets
22:33 sofar csm particles, I hope :P
22:33 Fixer 17500 particles
22:33 Fixer 3 FPS
22:33 Fixer along with ridiculously good hard house track and this faucet fps bomb
22:33 Fixer screenshot
22:34 rubenwardy #
22:35 rubenwardy csm particles aren't going to be much more efficient. It doesn't sync individual particles, just systems
22:35 rubenwardy it's mostly limited by rendering particles individually
22:35 benrob0329 Particles_Redo
22:36 benrob0329 #MakeParticlesGreatAgain
22:36 sofar csm particles will make the server do nothing while the client can move the detail slider
22:36 Fixer #howIgonnaShutdownThoseFaucets?
22:36 sofar and it will elminate hundreds (if not more) network packets
22:36 Fixer link https://i.imgur.com/heFJbO7.png
22:37 rubenwardy nah
22:37 sofar csm sounds and particles are right up there on my wish list, together with metasetnodedef -> tiles
22:37 Fixer from 220 fps to 4 fps
22:38 Fixer rubenwardy: you can destroy entire servers with outdated clients
22:38 sofar particle spawners are not flexible enough, I keep end up using individual particles to get better effects
22:38 sofar plus garbage collection of spawners is nonexistent
22:38 sofar (I think, not sure if that got fixed)
22:38 Fixer 3 fps is ridiculously hard to play
22:40 Fixer 60 faucets..... 6 fps
22:41 Fixer 45 faucets - 9 fps
22:42 Fixer 30 faucets - 14 fps
22:42 Fixer good enough to destroy gameplay on server
22:43 sofar just bad design
22:43 Fixer thats for desktop Core i3 + ATI X800GTO, mobile are probably all dead after just few faucets
22:43 Fixer new update for new particles, will try
22:44 Fixer 15 faucets - 29 fps :p
22:48 Fixer he posted a simple mod for testing particles, nice
22:48 Fixer noice
22:49 red-001 Fixer, what pr?
22:50 Fixer In function 'SRP_Result H_ns(__mpz_struct*, SRP_HashAlgorithm, const unsigned char*, size_t, const unsigned char*, size_t)',
22:50 Fixer inlined from 'int calculate_x(__mpz_struct*, SRP_HashAlgorithm, const unsigned char*, size_t, const char*, const unsigned char*, size_t)' at \src\util\srp.cpp:451:13:
22:50 Fixer \src\util\srp.cpp:428:8: warning: 'void* memcpy(void*, const void*, size_t)': specified size 18446744073709551615 exceeds maximum object size 9223372036854775807 [-Wstringop-overflow=]
22:50 Fixer memcpy(bin + len_n, bytes, len_bytes);
22:50 Fixer ohh
22:50 Fixer red-001: 6540
23:07 Fixer new particles:
23:07 Fixer 15 fau - 65 fps
23:07 Fixer 30 fau - 34 fps
23:08 Fixer 60 fau - 24 fps
23:09 Fixer 90 fau - 19 fps
23:09 Fixer not bad
23:11 VanessaE that's a damned sight better than old particles.
23:11 VanessaE those are homedecor faucets?
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23:16 Fixer yeah
23:17 Fixer so even 1000 particles is not a problem anymore
23:17 Fixer you can use f-ing proper rain
23:17 Fixer with at least 300 damn particles
23:17 VanessaE it used tobe even a few dozen was out of the question, on slower machines
23:17 VanessaE btw,
23:17 VanessaE try it again with non-translucent particles
23:18 VanessaE like dirt or something we know has no alpha, see what effect it has
23:20 VanessaE (well something with no alpha and is the same resolution as the water particles)
23:20 Fixer like this? https://pastebin.com/CMkpQA3q
23:21 VanessaE you're gonna make it rain keys? :)(
23:21 VanessaE :)
23:24 VanessaE keys have transparent parts, so that's still alpha.  try dirt or cobble or something instead, but crop the image to something exactly the same rez as the original water particles, otherwise your results won't be entirely valid.
23:39 Fixer ok, but later
23:39 Fixer gn
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