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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-09-24

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Time Nick Message
02:08 benrob0329 (Offtopic) https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/09/open-​letter-w3c-director-ceo-team-and-membership
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03:58 benrob0329 Vote no this week to the removal of light leak #6429
03:58 * benrob0329 hides
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05:12 Topic for #minetest-hub is now http://hub.minetest.net/info | http://hub.minetest.net/regulars | Logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/ | Please keep offtopic discussions short
06:26 sofar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ3xsXmj1hs&​amp;list=PL0q7atYslWid2-1dSE9ooxdfn4CQUnV1v
06:37 benrob0329 sofar: nice
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10:20 Megaf__ I need more comments/opinions on this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4564
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10:37 Megaf_ And Im not sure how to get 61+ FPS with the nvidia driver on Linux
10:45 Krock disable vsync
10:45 Megaf_ I did
10:46 Megaf_ the glxgears demo went from 60 FPS to 40000 FPS,
10:46 Krock also in the nvidia control panel?
10:46 Krock oh
10:46 Megaf_ problem is Minetest still stuck at max of 62 FPS
10:46 Megaf_ even with the driver set to max performance in power and max performance in qyality
10:47 Megaf_ 61 FPS is average
10:47 Megaf_ vsync has no effect
10:48 Megaf_ let me test other game
10:48 Krock fps_max setting?
10:49 Megaf_ Krock, that did it
10:49 Megaf_ so by default MT is limited to 62 FPS
10:50 Megaf_ I set to 120 and now it runs at 100+ FPS
10:50 Megaf_ 121
10:50 Megaf_ oh boy, nothing like playing mt at 160 FPS
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11:20 rdococ Megaf!
11:20 rdococ Kroc!
11:20 rdococ k
11:21 Megaf_ Hello rdococ
11:21 Megaf_ hey Fixer
11:22 rdococ hi Repairer
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11:54 IhrFussel Megaf, 60 FPS is default limit cause almost nobody got a 120 Hz monitor and you NEED a 120 Hz monitor to really see 120 FPS
11:55 IhrFussel You cannot see 120 FPS with a 60 Hz monitor
11:55 Krock you need 120 FPS eyes to really see 120 FPS
11:55 Megaf It's not about seeing, it's about beeing as smooth as possible with minimal input lag
11:56 IhrFussel Krock, that the eye can only see <= 60 FPS is an old myth if you are refering to that
11:57 IhrFussel Megaf, if the screen is 60 Hz it literally cannot update more than 60 times per second = 60 FPS
11:57 Krock 1970: 25 FPS is enough. 1990: 30 FPS must be enough. 2017: 60 FPS aren't enough
11:58 rdococ dude, we need 240 FPS
11:58 IhrFussel Many people don't see the need for a 120 Hz monitor cause they barely see a difference ... let's be real the difference between 60/120 is a very small one that most humans can't even see
11:59 IhrFussel Some people don't even see one between 30/60
11:59 IhrFussel Theater movies run @ 25 FPS AFAIK..or maybe 30 now
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12:00 rdococ I set my computer monitor to refresh at a rate of 0.5 FPS, because I can't see the difference between 0.5 and 1.
12:00 Krock same
12:01 Megaf we don't see in FPS...
12:01 Megaf you have to go deeper
12:01 Megaf stop thinking refresh rate
12:02 rdococ WE NEED TO DOUBLE SCREEN RESOLUTION!
12:02 rdococ no... TRIPLE it! :P
12:02 Megaf no, resolution in Minetest, that could be like, low, very low
12:02 rdococ Actually, we should just use super awesome futuristic vector screens already.
12:03 * rdococ decides to completely ignore the fact that vector screens already exist, and in fact aren't that great
12:20 Fixer stop tripling resolutions
12:20 Fixer make affordable fucking 1920*1080 instead at least in your fucking craptops
12:21 Fixer who needs 4K shit when you can't even buy <1000usd laptop without shittiest 1366*768 piece of shit from 90s and eyes also bleed
12:22 Krock why not green/black only for the real matrix or hacker feeling?
12:23 Fixer laptop screen from 2017 has worse picture than my 17 year old flat CRT
12:24 Fixer grainy, mirrory and ofc half white - half black
12:25 Fixer also, 60 fps is considered enough, but not under
12:42 Fixer also due to my aging hardware causing BSOD problems espeically on above 100 fps I've installed special tool that caps fps at my choosing
12:43 Fixer to decrease power draw
12:56 * rdococ draws a lightning bolt, frying Fixer's hardware for good
12:57 rdococ what we really need is a cathode ray gun
12:57 rdococ for shooting at stuff!
13:09 Fixer i need to test this, bsods, corrupted screen linked to GPU is not good
13:09 Fixer bsod via ati driver ofc
13:10 Fixer i will not enable vsync, it simply sucks
13:10 Fixer bad mouse lag
13:32 Calinou yeah, not a lot of games bundle V-Sync lag fixes
13:32 Calinou ezQuake does, but not much else
13:32 Calinou (I don't know how it works)
13:32 Calinou <Fixer> make affordable fucking 1920*1080 instead at least in your fucking craptops
13:32 Calinou if you search well, you can find 1080p laptops for €550-600
13:32 Calinou so, it's quite affordable now
13:33 Fixer Calinou: search well
13:33 Fixer Calinou: i've searched and found only some HP Pro Book not quite in 550-600 range
13:33 Fixer and few other
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13:35 Calinou which country do you live in?
13:36 Calinou I disabled all FPS caps in games here, gives minimal input lag and maximal smoothness
13:37 Calinou many games lock to 250 FPS (intentional limitation) or 333 FPS though (engine limitation found in all id Tech 3 games)
13:37 Calinou and I can't get Quake 4 above 60 FPS :<
13:37 Fixer Calinou: i've limited it to 100 for now, I have strange crashes/bsod/imagecorruption on very high fps, and i don't want to use vsync
13:38 Fixer crash occurs in two opengl games
13:38 Calinou running Sauerbraten with no FPS cap since a few minutes ago: https://media.hugo.pro/OpenHardwa​reMonitor_2017-09-24_15-38-02.png
13:38 Fixer minecraft beta and pioneer
13:38 Calinou (temperatures in °C: dark red line is GPU, magenta line is CPU)
13:38 Calinou the game is running at 750-1000 FPS
13:38 Calinou :)
13:38 Fixer and Colin Mcray Rally 2005 (DX one)
13:38 Calinou my monitor has high input lag, so higher FPS helps a lot in minimizing it
13:39 Calinou higher framerates can also decrease ping (or at least the one reported in scoreboard)
13:40 Calinou this is the case in Xonotic at least
13:41 Fixer Calinou: 2 minutes test in OCCT and I have bsod :(
13:42 Fixer PSU values within norm
13:42 Fixer puzzled
13:42 Calinou reset your BIOS settings entirely
13:42 Calinou it helped me once
13:42 Calinou what's your PSU model?
13:42 Fixer i have not changed bios much
13:42 Fixer Calinou: don't remember, probably noname %)
13:43 Calinou IhrFussel: I'm fairly sure most people will notice the difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz
13:43 Calinou based on the input I got
13:43 Calinou however, I've never had a 144 Hz monitor
13:43 Calinou I'm a 60 Hz pleb :|
13:43 Calinou (32" 1440p doesn't exist above 60 Hz)
13:44 Calinou Fixer: there's your problem :P
13:44 Calinou noname PSUs are bad at handling high load, and are often unsafe
13:44 Fixer Calinou: yes, I'm suspecting that
13:45 Calinou CPU-Z/GPU-Z here: https://media.hugo.pro/2017-09-24_15-45-41.png :P
13:48 Fixer Calinou: https://i.imgur.com/EFpqxVw.png
13:48 Calinou fun fact: Yamagi Quake 2 freezes on start if you set the FPS limit above 500
13:48 Calinou and above 250 FPS, its movement prediction is really wonky
13:49 Calinou the game is pretty smooth at 250 FPS already, there's no real point in having more anyway
13:49 Fixer and your monitor is 60 Hz anyway (probably)
13:50 Calinou it is, yes
13:50 Calinou but having more than 60 FPS decreases perceived input lag, and increases perceived smoothness
13:50 Calinou this is due to how monitors and rendering engines work
13:50 Calinou (G-Sync/FreeSync aim to solve this by introducing variable refresh rates)
13:50 Fixer yeah
13:50 Fixer input lag is different
13:50 Fixer with vsync it is horrible
13:50 Calinou smoothness is also greatly improved by having higher FPS
13:51 Calinou at least on my monitor
13:51 Fixer i've set limiter to 120fps, will investigate if it causes bsods/grey screens
13:51 Fixer grey screen is reported on several amd cards
13:51 Fixer rx480
13:51 Fixer 7970
13:51 Fixer now i have this too
13:52 Fixer some guy found a way, by increasing VDDC iirc
13:52 Fixer it is smth about power supply of videocard, very probably or card problem itself
13:54 Fixer Calinou: when I had shifted screen day ago with image corruption OCCT give me literally no errors, so probably not a ram problem, but if its GPU problem that will suck
13:55 Fixer could be old monitor issue with sync problems somehow causing gpu bsod?
13:58 Calinou I don't know, probably not
13:58 Calinou the GPU does not BSOD, the OS does :)
13:58 IhrFussel Calinou, the average joe will not see any difference, no
13:59 IhrFussel Gamers who play several hours per day maybe
13:59 Calinou you could try overvolting the graphics card a bit (to your own risk)
13:59 Calinou IhrFussel: even if you play a game 10 minutes, you will notice it
13:59 Calinou of course, you need a PC which can consistently output > 60 FPS
14:00 IhrFussel People can barely tell the difference bwteeen a CONSTANT 30 FPS and 60 FPS...I'm not talking about FPS drops
14:01 rdococ I wouldn't mind a system which would vary between 40 ~ 60 FPS.
14:01 IhrFussel Almost all games do have frame drops so of course the player will see that the smooth gameplay isn't as smooth anymore
14:01 rdococ Unfortunately, my system varies from 10 ~ 40 FPS.
14:01 rdococ s/40/30/
14:35 Megaf Fixer, no screen matches CRT
14:35 Megaf no LCD screen*
14:35 Megaf only Plasma and OLED can be compared to CRT
14:36 Megaf but they will use almost the same amount of energy perhaps, to match CRT in everything
14:37 Megaf and still, the will be stuck to a fixed resolution
14:37 Megaf so yeah, CRT for the win
14:37 Megaf I had a 17" inch SAMSUNG 795 MB CRT that could do 1920x1200. It was awesome
14:39 Megaf https://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-​syncmaster-795mb-crt-monitor-17/specs/
14:45 Jordach Megaf, meanwhile in 240hz LCD panel land
14:46 Jordach what's input lag
15:05 sfan5 so there's this Minecraft in-game modding "convention": http://btm.asie.pl/moon/
15:05 sfan5 asie has suggested doing a panel on the Minetest engine, supposedly Terasology is doing one too
15:05 sfan5 even though it should be obvious: you need to have a Minecraft account for this
15:05 sfan5 any interest?
15:05 * sfan5 eyes Calinou
15:06 * rdococ eyes an eye
15:16 * Jordach eyes sfan5
15:17 sfan5 >.>
15:19 Calinou lol, that site design
15:19 Calinou "NOT AN OFFICIAL MINECRAFT PRODUCT. NOT APPROVED BY OR ASSOCIATED WITH MOJANG. I'M STILL WAITING, DINNERBONE. I STILL HAVE THE HUG TOKENS. I WOULD STILL LIKE TO REDEEM THEM."
15:19 Calinou and nice custom cursor
15:21 Calinou sfan5: I'm not seeing a Terasology panel in the list
15:21 sfan5 might be because that's the list of mod booths
15:25 rdococ yay
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15:30 Megaf Jordach, lol, my panel is 61.2 Hz
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15:40 * rdococ eyes Jordach
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16:09 Calinou today I learned FFmpeg supports Quake 2 .cin files… here's a screenshot of ffplay playing it: https://media.hugo.pro/ffpl​ay_2017-09-24_18-09-02.png
16:18 Megaf Calinou, that's actually quite cool
16:22 Megaf Jordach, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmgeU8eOXXc
16:23 Megaf too bad he doesnt actually plug the audio output to the video
16:23 rdococ yay[2]
16:24 rdococ yay[citation needed]. in another universe, YeY[citation required].
16:40 Fixer Megaf: LCD has one big advantage - geometry
16:40 Megaf elaborate
16:41 Fixer IhrFussel: there is huge difference between 30 and 60 fps
16:41 Fixer IhrFussel: just turn your mouse or go side ways, it is totally visible in any way
16:46 IhrFussel Fixer, To you it is, but not to many others
16:46 IhrFussel You are tech savvy, it's not the same as someone who only casually looks at screens
16:46 Fixer it is not about tech savvy
16:47 Fixer common sense and perception
16:47 Fixer 30 fps on PC looks like shit and can give headache and hardly playable
16:47 Fixer nobody in their mind will run on 30fps
16:53 rdococ I have found my new favorite Lua hack:
16:53 rdococ debug.setmetatable(0, { __index = math });
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17:16 Jordach Megaf, IS THAT A PORTABLE ELCASET
17:17 Megaf thatrs the big professonal walkman not made for pockets :P
17:17 Jordach Megaf, my DD9 wants a goddamn word
17:17 Megaf hah
17:18 Jordach Megaf, i also have a properly refurbed Sony TC-K611S
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17:28 Megaf Jordach, what you think? http://www.adverts.ie/other-antique​s-collectables/sony-tcm-939-portabl​e-cassette-tape-recorder/12621033
17:29 Jordach >mono
17:29 Megaf anything interesting there? http://www.adverts.ie/for-sale/ant​iques-collectables/66/q_cassette/
17:30 sofar \
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17:30 Megaf Jordach, this one looks cool http://www.adverts.ie/other-antiques-collectable​s/philips-stereo-cassette-recorder-2400/12350119
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19:15 Megaf how do I switch a git repo to a tag?
19:17 sfan5 git checkout
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19:23 Jordach when did git support ecommerce Kappa
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19:46 rubenwardy https://www.patreon.com/voxelands
19:46 rubenwardy wow
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19:55 Fuchs rubenwardy: it's a MT fork, yes.
20:05 ircSparky is there an easy way to add a button to the main inventory without using inventory_plus?
20:05 ircSparky I just want a button so players dont have to use a chatcommand to "take off" a backpack
20:07 sfan5 https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/​blob/master/worldedit_gui/init.lua#L139L146
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20:12 ircSparky k
20:18 Megaf so, how to I check out a specific tag?
20:18 Megaf with git
20:21 sfan5 git checkout
20:25 rubenwardy ircSparky, use a sfinv override
20:25 rubenwardy or even better, sfinv_buttons
20:26 ircSparky hmm, I am not using sfinv either, just what 3d_armor has with no inventory modifiers. one sec, gunna amend my question
20:26 rubenwardy oh, that link is an override
20:26 ircSparky hm
20:27 rubenwardy 3darmor does use sfinv btw
20:27 ircSparky yea, maybe i should add it :P
20:27 ircSparky although i must admit i like having everything you need on one page
20:31 rdococ sfinv
20:31 rubenwardy fun fact: I wrote it for CTF after trying to find a simple and uh fast inventory mod
20:33 ircSparky cool
20:43 ircSparky how new is override_page?
20:44 sfan5 included in initial mtg merge of sfinv (0.4.15) iirc
20:44 ircSparky ok
20:46 ircSparky does the "bone" for set_attach work?
20:46 ircSparky set_attach(puncher, "Body", {x=0,y=0,z=0}, {x=0,y=0,z=0}) dosnt seem to work
20:58 rdococ yay
20:59 ircSparky ?
20:59 rubenwardy rdococ likes saying yay
21:00 rdococ lol
21:03 ircSparky ok
21:04 Calinou Raven262: hi, you around?
21:05 rdococ I recently installed Firefox Nightly
21:06 rdococ and wow is there a difference :P
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21:25 Fixer after 3 hours of thinking how to workaround it I had to use my goto tool, downside is minimised uac prompt at startup, not a problem
21:28 Calinou rdococ: it looks much better with the dark theme :)
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21:45 * rubenwardy installs Firefox Nightly
21:46 Calinou it no longer has the Firedoge logo, but the new logo is pretty dope
21:46 Calinou https://media.hugo.pro/fire​fox_2017-09-24_23-46-12.png
22:04 rubenwardy heh, the default theme seems to pick up on my GTK theme's color, so fits nicer than the dark theme
22:11 Fixer damn
22:14 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/PrNgp2K.png mc beta 1.7.3
22:16 rubenwardy heresy
22:24 Fixer rubenwardy: made just recently, people actually play on such servers
22:26 Fixer "GSoD is the acronym of Grey Screen of Death. GSoD is a recently new trendy term in the world of Radeon HD 5000 series graphics cards. Radeon HD 5000 come with new GDDR5 memory that is known to have somes issues (due to heat or faulty chips). "
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22:27 Fixer i wonder if my next videocard should be nvidia one...
22:35 rdococ yay
22:37 rdococ Calinou, I ended up picking the stars theme
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22:42 rdococ wow, though. Until the updates get released, I'm sticking with Nightly. It's like the best of both worlds of Firefox and Chrom(e/ium).
22:45 Fixer i'm sticking with ESR
22:47 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/4codQhR.png
23:03 Calinou this ESR? https://upload.wikimedia.org/w​ikipedia/commons/a/a2/Esr.jpg
23:13 ircSparky I am assuming the bones don't work then :P
23:26 Calinou Fixer: finished playing Wolf3D episode 1 (blind run, I didn't know the levels except for E1L1): https://media.hugo.pro/ecwo​lf_2017-09-25_00-15-37.png
23:26 Calinou in skill "Don't hurt me"
23:26 Calinou I know where the secret level is, but I didn't go through it because I just find it too maze-y to my taste
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23:28 Fixer Calinou: damn he is OLD...
23:29 Calinou https://media.hugo.pro/ecwo​lf_2017-09-24_23-27-51.png
23:29 Calinou you can run ECWolf at a whopping 5120×2880 (5K, used by the 27" iMacs, for example)
23:29 Calinou it runs at like 20 FPS here, because it's still software rendering
23:29 Fixer lolol
23:32 Calinou I didn't manage to change the FOV :(
23:32 Calinou there's a DesiredFOV setting (according to the source code), but it doesn't work here, it has no effect
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