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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-09-22

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Shara Since when was multicraft not updating?
00:02 paramat the owner tells me that they are not going to keep up with MT after 0.4.16 because 'C++11 changes broke android' or something
00:02 paramat so it may be difficult for them to be compatible with 0.5.0
00:03 paramat or even impossible
00:05 Shara Interesting
00:06 Shara But it really means the official one is just more important
00:07 IhrFussel Off for the night, see ya :)
00:10 paramat yes, to give players a good alternative
00:58 paramat waah mommy! so many whiners in the forum :]
00:58 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=294728#p294728
01:31 paramat we need to stop these people posting mindless spam
01:32 Shara Please do.
01:32 benrob0329 paramat: I have made many suggestions for Offtopic, no one has paid attention to them
01:39 paramat i guess the reasonable offtopic is ok, just need to deal with the mindless stuff
01:40 benrob0329 paramat: Well no one said what offtopic was for, you guys just nuked it and left everyone wondering what happened
01:41 benrob0329 Instead of making the purpose of Offtopic clear, the forum moderators made it more confusing for everyone
01:41 paramat the removal of offtopic was a surprise for most core devs, 'we' didn't do it, i still don't know who did
01:42 paramat it obvious offtopic is for reasonable offtopic, and it's obvious that mindless spam is not welcome
01:42 benrob0329 Well I suppose I assumed you were a forum moderator, to make it more clear the forum mods did
01:42 benrob0329 but nothing suggests that
01:42 sofar lol, I didn't know, but, it doesn't matter imho, as long as bans for excessive offtopic do not happen, it's gonna stay like this
01:43 benrob0329 I don't even know what offtopic is anymore
01:43 benrob0329 and I usually hang out in the offtopic section of forums
01:43 Aerozoic I rarely browse the forum but looking at it now there is clearly an Off topic section but in that section is an "on-topic" subsection. WTF?
01:43 rubenwardy the offtopic forums should be merged into one, and a guideline posted
01:43 paramat most of it is reasonable
01:44 benrob0329 Offtopic should be renamed to something that suggests laid back, but still meaningful discussion
01:44 paramat some topics are just mindless though, and there are certain individuals, MineYoshi, BBmine, azekill etc. who need to be dealt with
01:45 benrob0329 and guidelines posted to be loosely followed
01:45 Aerozoic Looks like crazyness to me. I've never seen a forum without an offtopic. Why should it be so highly regulated?
01:45 benrob0329 It shouldn't be, it shouldn't have to be at least.
01:45 benrob0329 but mindless spam is going to happen if there is no rhyme or reason as to why it is like it is
01:46 paramat https://forum.minetest.net/viewto​pic.php?p=261518&f=54#p261518
01:46 benrob0329 I have seen some very high quality offtopic sections, they are never named offtopic
01:46 paramat "s***posting (in "Offtopic", or anywhere else for that matter) will be removed without warning, and may result in bans."
01:46 Shara what benrob0329 said really
01:47 benrob0329 so...posting the rules in the "on topic" section of offtopic means everyone is going to see them?
01:47 paramat " the offtopic forums should be merged into one, and a guideline posted" yes
01:47 Shara Agreed
01:47 benrob0329 I don't know what to post, where to post, or how to act in offtopic anymore
01:49 paramat well the 'on topic' title is a joke by c55
01:49 benrob0329 its confusing
01:49 paramat all subforums are under the one master branch 'offtopic' so it's clear
01:50 benrob0329 or maybe, "The Water Cooler" or "The Lounge"
01:50 paramat but yes we need to merge them and remove the joke subforum titles
01:50 benrob0329 something that implies laid back, but not necessarily way off in left field posts
01:53 paramat yeah
01:53 benrob0329 then a Section topic to solidify that
01:56 sofar it's the meta-conversations that are distructive
01:58 paramat VanessaE if you're about, 2 topics to bin https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=56&t=17673 and https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=56&t=18516
02:02 paramat i'd make an excellent moderator :D low tolerance
02:06 Aerozoic tolerance is a good thing
02:06 rubenwardy whilst those topics are blatently awful
02:07 rubenwardy it's better to be somewhat tolerant, to stop stiffling of conversation
02:07 Shara balance is the good thing :)
02:07 rubenwardy exactly
02:11 paramat yeah of course, half joking
02:12 benrob0329 Balance is good, but the spam posts hurt forums
02:13 paramat however anything like those 2 topics i would close
02:13 benrob0329 We need a sub section for games
02:13 benrob0329 One for "The Lounge" and a sub for forum games
02:13 Shara Balance to me is give fair warnings to make sure they are informed, and if the warnings aren't heeded, then act as you have said you will
02:13 paramat yes
02:13 Shara Now meaningful follow up on warnings leads to warnings not meaning anything and getting ignored
02:14 Shara No*
02:15 paramat mindless nonsense is not allowable i feel, they can do that elsewhere
02:15 benrob0329 I would agree
02:16 benrob0329 If it was a post once in a while that was questionable in depth, I think it'd be ok to allow it. But currently its leaking into the rest of the forums
02:21 Aerozoic Am i the only one that thinks this entire conversation is ridiculous?
02:25 benrob0329 Aerozoic: talking about how we can make the offtopic section less off topic? Yes, yes it is
02:25 benrob0329 But its necessary
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03:17 paramat aerozoic yes you are :]
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06:13 CWz Lol the removal of off topic really pissed off some squirts
06:58 celeron55 https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300​-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537
06:58 celeron55 this is interesting
06:59 celeron55 (not really related to minetest)
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08:06 rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub
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08:18 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
08:20 shivajiva Hi Raven262
08:21 H4mlet joined #minetest-hub
08:35 lisac joined #minetest-hub
08:58 Raven262 Hi shivajiva
08:58 Raven262 lol
08:58 Raven262 so many reconnections over the past night.
08:58 Raven262 i guess it was lisac's doing.
08:59 lisac yes yes my doing
09:06 shivajiva something was going on, my log is empty, like nobody spoke/joined/parted
09:11 Raven262 Time to reboot to the most favorite(hated) OS of all...
09:13 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
09:17 shivajiva can someone confirm rotation is only in 90 degree steps for nodes?
09:24 shivajiva nvm
09:53 H4mlet one could wonder what odd rotations - non 90° - could be actually used for, e.g. clock handles, levers, windroses, windsocks, etc.
09:54 H4mlet clock handles -> clock hands
10:34 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
10:37 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
10:38 srifqi hi nerzhul
10:39 Shara Hello all
10:40 srifqi hello Shara
10:42 nerzhul hi
10:42 Raven262 Hi Shara, nerzhul.
10:42 Shara How's it going?
10:43 * Raven262 now has lots of free time for the next 2 days.
10:43 Raven262 So, anybody got any good pixel art tutorials?
10:43 srifqi I've never done Pixel Art. (^_^")\
10:43 Shara Only one I can think of is the one rubenwardy's modding guide links to
10:44 Shara http://www.photonstorm.com/art/tuto​rials-art/16x16-pixel-art-tutorial
10:44 Shara It's kidn of short though, but maybe helps
10:44 Shara kind*
10:44 Raven262 Interesting.
10:45 Raven262 I didn't see this way of making sprites yet, usually people say that starting with an outline is easy, but removing the outline later is quite hard.
10:45 Raven262 So they avoid it
10:46 Shara I've never looked into it much.
10:46 Shara Just noticed that since I was doing edits on the book
10:47 Raven262 I'm looking for ways to improve my texturing, since it takes me a bit too long to create textures right now.
10:47 Shara I should really, since it takes me forever to make textures I like
10:47 Shara Forever to the point that I tend to give up on whole mods I was working on and just leave them sitting
10:48 Raven262 I have one tutorial that helped me a lot
10:48 Shara Can you share?
10:48 Raven262 sure, lemme find it
10:48 Shara I'm at... three people having offered to make armour textures for my armour mod now, and weeks later I still don't have anything
10:48 Raven262 Wrong OS, gotta reboot.
10:50 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
10:51 Raven262 Shara, http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-​modding-java-edition/resource-packs/resource-pack​-discussion/1254358-pixel-art-texturing-explained
10:51 Raven262 long link lol
10:52 Raven262 That one has a bit of everything.
10:53 Shara Thank you
10:53 Raven262 np, i'm collecting good tutorials :)
10:53 Shara I just figure I'm going to have to make the textures I want myself the way things are going so.... need to find a way to make it less painful
10:54 Raven262 What kind of textures are you making?
10:55 Shara Armour currently
10:55 Raven262 You making the texture to fit the original 3d armour style, or making the new ones?
10:55 Raven262 I though to make the new ones in my amber mod, but it hardly fits the rest of the mod.
10:56 Shara I'm not sure what the difference is.
10:56 Shara I want my armour having more detail than the old ones though (I can't stand the news one so never use them)
10:56 Shara new*
10:57 Raven262 Well, thats the difference, the old ones are outlined which gives little space for detail.
10:57 Shara To be honest, I'd love to make textures to replace all the current armours on DL. It really annoys me that player skins are generally nicer to look at than the armour
10:57 Raven262 Yea, i also think that the armor texture is really simplistic.
10:58 Raven262 But, it would take ages to make each armor set different.
10:58 Shara I don't want ultra-realistic, but I do want something that's as detailed as skins usually are
10:58 Shara Well, it certainly takes ages if you are me :P
11:00 Shara I also got annoyed when I hit issues with z fighting on the leggings/boots, and that's where I kind of... stopped for the time being
11:01 Raven262 I never noticed that actually.
11:02 Shara I think you don't get it if there's enough of a colour overlap, so it's not really showing on the simple armour textures
11:03 Raven262 Thats why it can't be seen on ordinary textures, i get it.
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11:27 Krock joined #minetest-hub
11:39 Raven262 Hi Krock
11:40 Krock hi Raven262
11:41 Krock Raven262, is it intended that subtracting your name from the devil's number gives 404?
11:41 Krock i.e. 666 - 262 = 404 (not found)
11:45 Raven262 Wow, one step closer to solving the mystery...
11:45 Raven262 I'll remember this one.
11:46 Krock so the mystery isn't solved completely yet?
11:46 Raven262 No, i don't know why is 262 such a special number.
11:47 Raven262 I placed it in my name in hope someone will know.
11:48 Krock subtracting the outer digits from the inner turns it into an outer digit value
11:48 Krock another step
11:49 Krock adding all of them together gives the amount of your fingers or toes (if you're an average person)
11:49 Raven262 Yea if the second number's digit is not larger than the first one's.
11:50 Raven262 Its not about the math i think.
11:50 Raven262 The number can be found in many places, including history.
11:51 Krock feels like there are 262 "du" sounds in darude sandstorm
11:52 Raven262 what? xD
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12:27 Raven262 Made two different textures, stone and sand.
12:27 Raven262 They look the same
12:28 Raven262 It was not intended though.
12:28 Raven262 I can't believe this is even possible.
12:32 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
12:33 twoelk o/
12:33 Raven262 o/
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12:43 IhrFussel I HATE this Server::SendMovePlayer() segfault that happens so randomly and (mostly) rarely
12:44 IhrFussel And I hate even more that it never happens with the debug build ... seems like this bug will haunt me for a while
12:45 IhrFussel Isn't there something that can be done in c++ to validate the player position's existence?
12:47 IhrFussel It seems to be about position... either some mod reports an incorrect position to the engine or the engine somehow receives the position too slow/too late...not sure
12:48 Krock this means something is teleporting too far outside
12:48 Krock or their yaw/pitch is insane high
12:49 twoelk maybe a value type conversion hickup?
12:49 Krock no, the network packet operators are overloaded correctly
12:50 Krock I'm surprised it doesn't throw an assertion in the debug build
12:50 IhrFussel Krock, one time it happened RIGHT after teleporting to another player
12:50 Krock maybe it happened right after someone left?
12:51 twoelk isn't this the same 3+year old bug that would place players outside of the addressable map?
12:52 IhrFussel You can't reach the end of the map on my server (I think) ... it teleports you 100 nodes back as soon as you hit 14,900 (max is 15,000)
12:52 Krock teleporting function like set_pos doesn't care about this
12:52 nerzhul IhrFussel, don't teleport and move your ass by feet :D
12:53 Krock but he's got a heisenberg compensator to teleport. not everybody owns that
12:53 Krock however, it seems to be malfunctioning sometimes
12:54 twoelk yeah but there was a problem when players where send to positions with insane high coordinates - that is the target values where calculated wrong, so that when mt tried to place the player it crashed
12:55 IhrFussel The segfault happens VERY VERY randomly which is why I can't track it down with a debug build...and I don't want my players to have a bad gameplay experience for weeks...this is the recent dmesg output: https://pastebin.com/w3nyWWRy
12:56 IhrFussel The ip value is always the same meaning same function I guess
12:59 IhrFussel Yep just ran the value through addr2line "Server::SendMovePlayer(unsigned short)"
13:00 IhrFussel Only my moderators can teleport to any coordinate I think...other players only can send requests to each other
13:01 IhrFussel And I see no extra high position in any of the moderator commands log
13:02 IhrFussel Unless...maybe teleport pads could cause this?
13:04 * CWz thinks commercialism is a religion as well
13:04 IhrFussel Nope, just checked mod code...it returns nil if the entered position is out of bounds
13:11 twoelk I don't think it is a wrong command input - rather something like two things happening at the same time that disrupts proper calculation or information transfer
13:13 twoelk maybe some better plausability check is needed befor the server applies a set of coordinates
13:15 IhrFussel I think it's crazy if the engine really doesn't check the position values before applying them...that shouldn't be the mod's job honestly
13:17 IhrFussel The c++ side should compare the map_generation_limit to the entered x,y,z values and it should also check if the positions even make sense or might be corrupted
13:17 twoelk might be simply a corner case that nobody thought about and until now nobody has been able to pinpoint the exact point of failure
13:18 IhrFussel twoelk, I'll look at that c++ function that causes my segfaults...AFAIK there is no validation check
13:18 twoelk I could imagine that maybe the value is so insane that the check itself stumbles
13:24 IhrFussel twoelk, this is the function..I see no checks there https://pastebin.com/KTJQcXLu
13:25 IhrFussel Unless maybe Lua does the checks...will look for that
13:29 IhrFussel Nope I see nothing that could validate/invalidate a position
13:29 Fixer IhrFussel: you need to use gdb and get a backtrace
13:29 IhrFussel I already told you that it happens too rarily/randomly to debug
13:30 Fixer IhrFussel: good luck fixing that bug :D
13:30 twoelk maybe somewhere along TOCLIENT_MOVE_PLAYER something  unexpected happens during   communication
13:30 Fixer without backtrace your are screwed
13:30 IhrFussel But I am asking the core devs why they thought they wouldn't need to check the pos in Server::SendMovePlayer() unless I'm missing something
13:31 twoelk I would rather think the recieving part should check
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13:32 IhrFussel getBasePosition doesn't check the values either it seems...but I am a noob in c++ I'm simply reading the src code and looking for something like "if pos.x > [map limit] or pos.x == "" or pos.x [notnumber]"
13:33 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
13:33 twoelk if the server crashes it must happen while the client sends the new position back
13:33 srifqi Anybody knows how to compile Minetest for Android?
13:41 twoelk there could be two scenarios, either the server stumbles while trying to apply a position calculated wrongly or it crashes when it tries to compute a wrong position type it got from the client that got corrupted  during communication
13:43 twoelk do the players see the new position?
13:44 twoelk oops, sort of repeated what you said earlier :-P
13:48 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
13:49 * twoelk decides to go and play on a server instead of talking about things he has only limited knowledge about
13:54 IhrFussel serverpackethandler.cpp also uses the function as "SendMovePlayer(pkt->getPeerId());"
13:54 IhrFussel But the function itself checks if the peer_id leads to an existing player...so that can't be it
14:15 shivajiva anything to suggest nodes being dropped outside the map maliciously?
14:17 sfan5 you need a debug build to be able to understand the problem fully/correctly
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14:45 Fixer please support this https://github.com/minetes​t-mods/technic/issues/392
14:49 Krock define "admins"
14:51 Fixer Krock: users with server or protection_bypass privs
14:51 Fixer i guess
15:02 Shara I really wish all all mods would... just respect protection_bypass
15:04 * Krock 's protection mod does
15:04 Shara I did not know you had one
15:05 Shara But I meant any mods in general. Every so often I find things any player can place no matter where
15:06 Shara Or things a player with protection_bypass can't move
15:06 benrob0329 !seen nerzhul
15:06 ShadowBot benrob0329: I saw nerzhul in #minetest-hub 2 hours, 13 minutes, and 49 seconds ago saying "IhrFussel, don't teleport and move your ass by feet :D"
15:10 twoelk grrr, using git commands in batch files is not fun, they never return control to the batch
15:11 nerzhul !seen benrob0329
15:11 ShadowBot nerzhul: I saw benrob0329 in #minetest-hub 4 minutes and 34 seconds ago saying "!seen nerzhul"
15:11 benrob0329 nerzhul: want to join a Unix talk channel with some other BSD users?
15:12 nerzhul i'm already in #freebsd it's sufficient, why a new chan ?
15:12 benrob0329 Because its pretty laid back
15:13 twoelk laid back in as offtopic? :-D
15:13 twoelk *as in
15:13 nerzhul i don't have time to speak against systemd (i like systemd in Linux, i do Linux app deployment on my server farm (750 servers) everyday and systemd is very nice to handle my services properly
15:14 benrob0329 nerzhul: wot
15:14 nerzhul bahahaha
15:14 benrob0329 When did systems come up?
15:15 benrob0329 *systemd
15:17 Fixer Krock: checking that code
15:25 Fixer Krock: works for me
15:38 CWz I wonder if no rules server owners can get prosecuted for not abiding by child safety laws. since local laws still apply regardless
15:41 CWz Which is the the true idiocy of hosting one in the first place.
15:42 CWz Something to think about
15:43 Krock Fixer, then ask a member who's online right now whether (s)he would be so nice and merge it
15:43 Shara I'd assume it's likely they could depending on what happened on the server
15:44 Shara Just the fact that a server is 'no rules' alone wouldnt be enough though
15:44 shivajiva I believe it falls on the laws in the country hosting the server
15:46 Shara If there is something obviously illegal going on, especially involving children, and you ignore it... well, I'd like to think that isn't what server owners running these things are aiming for anyway, and that they'd step in
15:48 shivajiva being aware and ignoring it would make you complicit and would probably carry charges, just to up the ante
15:50 Shara This stuff is the reason I do occasional key-word checks on my logs, just in case anything gets turned up that I need to be aware of and step in for
15:52 shivajiva judicious monitoring is essential, it's care of duty imo
15:54 shivajiva simply because peoples idea of freedom don't align
15:59 shivajiva that's why the system does it :)
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16:10 ThomasMonroe guys what does this mean?
16:10 ThomasMonroe 2017-09-22 16:06:03: WARNING[Main]: Undeclared global variable "module" accessed at /usr/local/share/lua/5.1/ltn12.lua:14
16:15 shivajiva it means you are using the IRC mod, specifically luasocket, I think everyone sees the error
16:20 shivajiva *warning
16:38 benrob0329 12 hours pass, and still no change to the state of Offtopic
16:38 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
16:46 ThomasMonroe what would this mean then:
16:46 ThomasMonroe 2017-09-22 16:06:02: WARNING[Main]: Couldn't find a locale directory!
16:51 Krock it means what it says
16:51 Krock there's no locale directory. i.e. failed installation
16:55 ThomasMonroe hmm ok so it's the minetest instalation
16:59 shivajiva again another warning most of us see ThomasMonroe, always assumed it was a missing locale folder for intlib
16:59 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
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17:03 CWz if bullshit post counts are an issue, make it so the posts in offtopic don't count towards the users postcounts
17:03 CWz simple, right?
17:04 CWz Honestly, for the life of me, i have no idea why anyone would waste their time with shitposting
17:05 sfan5 CWz: that's already implemented
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17:10 CWz I just can't understand that mindset.
17:11 ThomasMonroe ok thanks shivajiva
17:20 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
17:30 Fixer nerzhul: whats wrong with moving other people chests by admins? it is often a big problem when everything is griefed and only steel door and locked chest is flying while player left forever
17:30 nerzhul it's trollday
17:31 twoelk there is the admin-tnt for that
17:31 Fixer nerzhul: admins should not troll, if they do - bad admin
17:31 Fixer i don't need admin tnt
17:31 Fixer i want to relocate chest, maybe just put in on the ground
17:31 nerzhul i'm not an admin i'm a dev
17:32 twoelk hmm, maybe make chests fall to the ground
17:32 Fixer or say server stuff is extra nice and collects all locked chests in air and move them to lost and found building near spawn
17:32 Fixer griefed property is completely removed for other people to build
17:32 twoelk and steel doors with no connected nodes collaps
17:32 Fixer yet chest is preserved
17:32 Fixer twoelk: that needs some kind of abm
17:33 Fixer i would like more tools for server admins
17:33 twoelk indeed
17:33 Fixer in my mind i have "restoration wand"
17:33 Fixer its purpose is: you point and click with it in some area and it completery reemerges it to pristine state
17:34 twoelk no prestine state is saved anywhere
17:34 Fixer regenerates area
17:34 Fixer if you not guessed
17:34 Fixer another tool - builders wand
17:34 twoelk lag had some mods allong that line
17:34 Fixer helps too build in a lot of places
17:35 Fixer another tool is removal wand
17:35 Fixer that you use to remove big pillars
17:35 twoelk maikerumine or sorcerykid may have forked them
17:37 Aerozoic Fixer, isn't that what //deleteblocks does in worldedit?
17:38 Fixer Aerozoic: kinda, but faster
17:39 twoelk the worldedit-wand is pretty usefull
17:39 twoelk as is sokomine's node-replacement-tool
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17:47 Fixer yeah, but it is not enough
17:56 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
17:56 H4mlet is it possible to avoid this warning by allowing more nodes to be stored?
17:56 H4mlet WARNING[Server]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id = 705 statically but block (-32,1,-6) already contains 64 objects. Forcing delete.
17:57 Krock increase the allowed amount of items per block
17:57 behalebabo max_objects_per_block = x
17:57 behalebabo in the .conf
17:58 H4mlet thanks a lot
17:58 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1253
17:58 Krock for (official) reference
17:59 twoelk LOL what caused it? massiv tnt explosion or hords of zombies?
17:59 Calinou hi
17:59 Calinou Firefox Nightly did a great thing
17:59 Calinou https://media.hugo.pro/chro​me_2017-09-22_19-59-38.png
18:00 Calinou it has a nice dark theme (finally), and its window border is *thinner* than Chrome's (in compact mode)
18:00 rubenwardy is left the new one?
18:00 Calinou yes
18:00 Calinou Firefox 58 alpha vs Chromium 63 dev
18:00 rubenwardy nice
18:00 Calinou I updated my browsers to dev builds :P
18:00 rubenwardy hopefully they'll make it work nicely with the systems dark theme
18:00 rubenwardy currently using a GTK dark theme breaks web pages
18:00 Calinou on Windows, it works well
18:00 rubenwardy Windows doesn't have themes
18:00 Calinou unfortunately, I don't think they worked on removing the titlebar on Linux
18:01 H4mlet twoelk: I'm testing a voxel manipulator which checks nodes un generation for falling; i.e. no floating sand nodes and similar
18:01 Calinou (so, it wastes a lot of vertical real estate)
18:01 H4mlet hi Calinou
18:01 H4mlet thanks Krock
18:02 twoelk so probably lots of little rotating sandblocks
18:03 Krock !next
18:03 ShadowBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
18:05 H4mlet twoelk: actually no, they just fall as if punched; it was nicer to look at it being done by a LBM (domino effect was a sight) but this way it should be less resources hungry
18:06 nerzhul Calinou, i prefer the current FF tab design, it's too hardy but anyway let's go
18:06 nerzhul oh it's winshit 10
18:07 Calinou yeah
18:07 Calinou see what I said about Linux
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18:13 Fixer *,...,*
18:13 Fixer nerzhul: FF R.I.P.
18:14 nerzhul i'm using firefox for freedom instead of sending random data i don't want to google
18:14 rubenwardy on Linux Firefox is pretty fast
18:14 rubenwardy and uses less RAM
18:14 Fixer nerzhul: i don't like google, but i'm puzzle on what to do with firefox
18:15 Fixer puzzled
18:15 rubenwardy It's worse on Windows
18:17 Fixer rubenwardy: fuckworse, 1gb of mem at minimum
18:23 H4mlet I suggest giving a try at Pale Moon, basically FF without the builting lagmonster
18:23 H4mlet *built-in
18:24 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:25 twoelk indeed the direction ff is taking lately is puzzling
18:30 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:31 Calinou Pale Moon should be renamed to Stale Moon…
18:32 Calinou nerzhul: on Android, I use Firefox because it can block all ads/trackers reliably without root
18:32 Calinou Chromium on Android, due to its complete lack of ads-ons, cannot do this
18:32 Calinou it also lacks a DuckDuckGo search option
18:33 benrob0329 Chrome lacks a DDG search option as well, you have to go through adding it
18:33 Fixer no wonder google does not want addons on android ;)
18:33 nerzhul Calinou, yes it's useful on android
18:33 benrob0329 its not hard, its just not there by default
18:33 Fixer i'm using firefox on android too, but it is quite crashy
18:34 Calinou also, I am disappoint
18:34 Calinou Firefox Nightly on Android now has a clickbait news section on the homepage
18:34 Calinou why did they do this :(
18:35 rubenwardy PIA has an ad blocking option, which is really nice
18:35 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
18:40 Calinou rubenwardy: but it's a VPN, no?
18:40 Calinou I want ad/tracker blocking to work everywhere, no matter the connection I use
18:40 Calinou also, my OpenVPN setup on my VPS is broken :|
18:40 Calinou (it's more useful to have a VPN now, since university restarted)
18:40 Calinou (and university Wi-FI = blocked ports and lots of tracking)
18:40 Calinou (:D)
18:44 Fixer yeah, Palemoon is an option
18:45 Fixer i'm not really against webextensions
18:45 Fixer but this rush
18:45 Fixer why they can't keep them both?
18:45 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
18:45 Fixer why redesigning fuuuuuuuuuuuucking UI yet again
18:45 Fixer ?
18:45 Fixer i'm very sad about UI customisation
18:46 Fixer for example weather mod that i've used moved to webextensions, guess what? it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
18:47 Fixer before i had nice weather bar for 5 days and current weather in menu panel, right it is one small useless icon
18:47 Fixer right now*
18:49 Fixer my options are 1) firefox esr (for some time) 2) suck it up and drop my addons and use firefox with shitty UI and few extensions 3) Palemoon 4) Chromium (but some parts of it suck) 5) Opera sucks 6) Vivaldi is proprieatary
18:50 twoelk the move to webextensions and dropping of the old apps api is quite a bold move, risking to loose many users or just an unconditional surrunder to google-chrome
18:50 twoelk -apps +addon
18:52 atorian37 joined #minetest-hub
18:52 Fixer twoelk: i'm fine if they give lots of time to rewrite stuff to webex and provide some customise api
18:52 twoelk and the way java is dropped looks more like trying to annoy oracle than security issues - although one could see it coming
18:53 Fixer i've seen somewhere they actually want to provide some API for customisation, because it sucks so much without it
18:53 twoelk from what I see they are raising the bar for content providers quite a lot
18:57 twoelk I had made quite a lot of xul based apps for use in our company intranet - they are all useless now and I can't make webextensions as they are not intended for public and as we will not use extra browsers for internal things most things break
18:58 twoelk but I guess that's what they wanted to get rid of from the start
19:04 Calinou <Fixer> but this rush
19:04 Calinou <Fixer> why they can't keep them both?
19:04 Calinou keeping both has a cost
19:05 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
19:05 Calinou the only browser add-on I really need is uBlock Origin
19:05 Calinou (Reddit Enhancement Suite is a must-have as well, not sure if it's WebExtensions yet)
19:06 Calinou there are other niceties: DownThemAll! (not compatible with Firefox 57 and later…), JSON formatters/code syntax highlighters in raw views
19:08 Calinou and of course, ponymotes… they're not updated for WebExtensions yet :D
19:08 * Calinou hides
19:09 Fixer i have 15 addons, of them only 2 - webext
19:09 Fixer everything else is legacy
19:09 Fixer without them it will just suck balls
19:10 benrob0329 I have 4 addons, cVim, Jitsi Meetings, Stylish, and uBlock Origin
19:11 Calinou I was a Stylish user before, but most of the dark themes made by the community are pretty meh
19:11 Calinou I wish more websites had official dark themes
19:11 Fixer "What about extensions like Element Hiding Helper, Customizations and similar?"
19:11 Calinou even YouTube has one now
19:11 Fixer fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
19:11 Calinou GitHub/GitLab Please :)
19:11 Fixer i have element hiding helper, very useful, it will not be ported
19:11 Fixer fuck this
19:12 benrob0329 Web browsers are way over-engineered for what the web started at imho
19:12 benrob0329 *as
19:12 Calinou yes, but it had to evolve
19:12 Calinou don't tell me it didn't… would you use web browsers without any support for video/audio streaming?
19:13 twoelk I used browsers long befor that
19:13 benrob0329 Evolve to what? A mangled application framework that need hardware acceleration and scripting just to read an article?
19:13 Calinou pretty much everything needs (or highly benefits from )hardware acceleration
19:14 Calinou Chromium still works in software mode (it's the default on Linux), but it'll be a power hog this way, and it'll feel slower
19:15 Krock Before anyone is going to complain about the issue count: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web ;)
19:15 benrob0329 Well, bug projects will have a lot of issues :-)
19:16 twoelk web pages containened information then - now I have to wait for all that sparkling, jiggling, tracking, user-analyzing, media-rich-gigabyte content to load before I can maybe read some content hidden by all the advertising
19:16 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
19:16 tenplus1 hi folks
19:17 twoelk o/
19:17 benrob0329 ^
19:17 tenplus1 o/ twoelk
19:17 tenplus1 hi benrob
19:17 benrob0329 Basic HTML isn't broke, and if it's ugly you need to fix your browser colors :-)
19:17 unk hi tenplus1
19:17 benrob0329 a little CSS will make a world of difference, if you want
19:17 benrob0329 hi ten
19:17 tenplus1 hi unk
19:17 twoelk css is overrated
19:17 * tenplus1 uses iframes
19:18 Krock hi tenplus1
19:18 tenplus1 o/ Krock :P
19:20 twoelk long time ago I remember arguing with some adobe guy on how coding colored backgrounds in tablecells was much leaner and faster than cutting a screenshot of a designed page into tiles and loading that
19:21 twoelk that was on the cebit and I got pushed away quickly when real cusomers showed up :-D
19:21 tenplus1 there's many good ways to streamline a website so it loads faster, it's just a shame most web devs forget them completely at times :P
19:22 Calinou someone explored my server! https://games.hugo.pro/minetest/map_calinou/
19:22 Calinou look at the right (unzoom)
19:22 tenplus1 hi Cal
19:22 Calinou hi :)
19:22 tenplus1 ehehe, exploration donuts
19:22 Calinou tenplus1: yes, WPO is sometimes completely forgotten about… but lots of modern websites load really fast
19:23 Calinou https://lichess.org/ or https://devdocs.io/
19:24 Calinou a lot of the tips are standard, there's no reason not to apply them
19:24 Calinou this tool is nice: https://developers.google.co​m/speed/pagespeed/insights/
19:24 Calinou it also is available in the Chrome DevTools
19:24 tenplus1 http://lolsnaps.com/wp-content/uploads/201​7/09/61fc02078c3adc9fe7d7bfd3c0de7301.jpg
19:25 Krock already seen as http://www.overclockers.com.au/​images/newspics/22sep17/24.jpg
19:25 tenplus1 lol
19:25 tenplus1 my link is clearer :) ehehehe
19:26 bigfoot548 joined #minetest-hub
19:26 tenplus1 hi  bigfoot
19:26 bigfoot548 hey tenplus1
19:26 bigfoot548 I'm currently moving from my self-hosted ZNC to a ZNC on linode :P
19:27 Calinou Krock, tenplus1: https://xkcd.com/1683/
19:28 tenplus1 lololol
19:28 Krock can confirm
19:30 Calinou heh, also found this while searching for that particular comic: https://www.xkcd.com/488/
19:30 Calinou and now we have the W3C DRM :(
19:30 Calinou hahahaha
19:31 Calinou I tested https://google.com on PageSpeed, this is the result: https://media.hugo.pro/chro​me_2017-09-22_21-30-59.png
19:31 tenplus1 lol, yeah... drm sucketh
19:31 Calinou it has a captcha
19:32 twoelk hm, my old homepage scores   97/100 for mobiles on PageSpeed-Tools-Insights
19:33 twoelk oh, minetest.net scores 73/100 - <needs work>
19:34 twoelk but good for desktop
19:35 Calinou the PageSpeed site itself loads very quickly
19:35 Calinou (once you loaded it once)
19:35 Calinou my own website has 75/100 on mobile, 56/100 on desktop
19:35 Calinou (some images have an overly high resolution on loDPI displays)
19:35 Calinou (and Google really dislikes this – for good reason)
19:36 Calinou I'm still working on a website redesign :P
19:39 H4mlet joined #minetest-hub
19:39 tenplus1 h H4mlet
19:40 H4mlet hi tenplus1 thanks
19:40 tenplus1 :P
19:41 Fixer i see a lot of people use ublock origin, is it better than adblock plus?
19:41 tenplus1 yes, and it's lighter/faster
19:41 Calinou Fixer: it is
19:41 Calinou it has been the #1 option for ad/tracker blocking since 2014 or so
19:42 Calinou gorhill rules the world of blocking :)
19:42 twoelk oh dear, I really should delete or radically update my old homepage index page - I might not have updated it for a decade or so
19:42 Calinou mine is a year old now
19:42 Calinou it lacks many of the projects I've done since
19:42 Calinou the copyright is still 2016
19:42 Fixer Calinou: can it hide elements on webpage?
19:42 Calinou Fixer: yes!
19:42 Calinou right-click :)
19:42 Calinou and you can aim any selector
19:42 Fixer okay
19:43 Fixer i will give it a try
19:43 Calinou (it is, of course, persistent across reloads)
19:43 tenplus1 also use shift to highlight sections/overlays
19:45 * twoelk starts filezilla
19:46 twoelk oops - index.html last updated 31.07.2006
19:46 benrob0329 lol
19:46 tenplus1 ehe
19:46 * benrob0329 's website is on Github, incomplete though
19:46 Krock modify the timestamp to UNIX time 0
19:47 Fixer ha
19:47 Fixer it seems my huge firefox lags are possibly connected to youtube, lol
19:48 tenplus1 when I sit on youtube the blocked links go up bit by bit... it's always trying to load something in the background
19:50 Fixer they introduced new interface, that lags insanely on firefox 56
19:50 Fixer fixed on 57
19:51 tenplus1 enabline hardware accel helps a lot
19:54 tenplus1 if it helps; https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q​=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=15&amp;ved=0ah​UKEwiB8avtyLnWAhVJKMAKHcwgALYQFghzMA4&amp;url=htt​ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.maketecheasier.com%2Fspeed-up-fire​fox%2F&amp;usg=AFQjCNFfMNauhaP67yvnGwSZWUb7CNyrCg
19:55 Megaf hey tenplus1
19:56 tenplus1 hi Megaf
20:02 Megaf Hi Shara 😏
20:04 Megaf Just wanted to test the "😏"
20:04 sfan5 🤔
20:04 tenplus1 hi sfan5
20:06 * tenplus1 thinks linux needs a base font on ALL systems that holds every character, and any font missing a character should use it as gap fillers
20:06 Krock but it must be a kind of comic sans font
20:07 tenplus1 lolol
20:07 tenplus1 to force them to add new characters :)))))
20:07 tenplus1 I dislike that certain programs require specific font sets to be installed, I'd rather control my own fonts thank you very much
20:08 tenplus1 same with icon sets... a base pack that all programs can use but not rely on
20:08 tenplus1 dependencies are a pain
20:09 * Megaf on Linux
20:09 Megaf Can anyone see this? "😏"
20:09 tenplus1 great system but pain in the butt for dependencies,,,, yeah Megaf  :)
20:09 H4mlet yes
20:09 benrob0329 me
20:09 Megaf I'm using Noto Mono by the way
20:10 * tenplus1 uses Ubuntu Fixed 10
20:10 Calinou I use Interface for IRC
20:10 Calinou (renamed to Inter UI, recently)
20:11 Calinou (updated link: https://rsms.me/inter/)
20:11 twoelk wow, on oct.7th it will be 19 years that I have html pages accessable from the www - maybe I should plan a party next year
20:12 tenplus1 hehe
20:12 twoelk or at least update most pages
20:12 Fixer scrapbook won't be ported, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
20:12 Fixer bullet to the head
20:12 tenplus1 scrapbook ?
20:14 twoelk oh, hi Megaf, still in Frankfurt?
20:18 Megaf twoelk, yep
20:19 Megaf twoelk, going to my second day of Frankfurt Motor Show tomorrow
20:19 twoelk the IAA?
20:20 twoelk used to visit that  - er - a long time ago
20:21 Megaf twoelk, I guess so :P
20:21 twoelk wave to the west to my relatives near Mainz
20:21 Megaf The one at Messe
20:21 Megaf hah, we exchange trams in Mainz
20:22 twoelk and don't forget to spend an evening in Sachsenhausen, enjoying the cider
20:22 tenplus1 ooh
20:24 twoelk I just was in Mainz a month ago
20:31 Megaf twoelk, How do I get there? I'm near the Airport Terminal 1
20:34 Megaf twoelk, oh man, thatś in Berlin
20:34 Megaf Not going there
20:34 twoelk Sachsenhausen is opposite the towncenter on the south bank of the river
20:35 twoelk Frankfurt(Main)Süd railway station for example
20:35 Megaf twoelk, Google says it's 6 hours by train from here
20:35 twoelk rather 6 minutes
20:36 Megaf so you are not talking about this place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S​achsenhausen_concentration_camp
20:36 twoelk its part of Franfurt on the Main
20:36 tenplus1 nite folks
20:36 Megaf nite tenplus1
20:36 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:36 twoelk I'm talking about drinking cider and having fun
20:37 twoelk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa​chsenhausen_(Frankfurt_am_Main)
20:37 Megaf twoelk, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa​chsenhausen_(Frankfurt_am_Main)
20:37 Megaf yep
20:37 Megaf :D
20:38 twoelk yeah, famous for Apfelwein and Schinkenplatte
20:40 twoelk http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.10535/8.69078
20:42 Megaf twoelk, I can take the S3 after the IAA to there, have some cider and then S8 to the airport
20:42 Megaf I think it works
20:42 Megaf It depends on what time I will leave the event tho
20:42 Megaf My flight is around 21:30
20:44 twoelk I don't think I could walk well whenever I left Sachsenhausen or keep to scheduled timeplans :-P
20:44 Megaf hah
20:44 Megaf how much is the cider there?
20:45 twoelk can't remember LOL, cheap enough for a poor student to get pretty drunk
20:45 twoelk but that was some time ago
20:45 Megaf lol
20:47 twoelk might be a bit early in the year for fresh cider though and apples didn't do well this year, so prizes at the moment are probably not at the lowest
20:49 twoelk actually this was probably a pretty bad year for most fruits in germany
20:50 twoelk wikipedia says < reputedly, local law requires that Apfelwein be the cheapest alcoholic beverage on sale in any public house.>
20:53 Megaf lol
20:54 Fixer i've reviewed my ff addons and their WE status = SAD
20:54 Fixer while ad blocking will be available, everything else is kinda meeh
20:54 Fixer not even ported
20:58 H4mlet I've switched to palemoon, installed ublock origin, https everywhere, noscript, privacy badger; bye bye laggerfox
20:58 sfan5 >palemoon
20:59 H4mlet now I would be happy to find some papyrus in my darn map
20:59 Megaf Hey, I have a nice player on my server now, one player only, it'd be nice if somebody could join it to make some company
20:59 * Megaf looks at Sokomine
21:00 twoelk Megaf, do consider though that very young still sparkling Äbbelwoi may go right through. Might be wise to have some extras in your handluggage while hurrying to the plane   :-P
21:01 Megaf twoelk, keep in mind I know no German at all
21:01 twoelk apfelwein=Äbbelwoi in Frankfurt dialect
21:02 H4mlet speak like a scotsman, nobody will notice the difference
21:02 twoelk could well be
21:02 twoelk it indeed sounds similar - compared to chinese
21:02 H4mlet lol
21:19 nerzhul don't forget reseting your firefox profile can help a lot if it's a very old profile
21:21 Fixer i've reseted it not long ago, after starting having serious crashes
21:35 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
22:11 Megaf lol, my server is based on commit 667975f, that is almost one year
22:28 IhrFussel Megaf, so you're missing out on the big performance improvement regarding particles?
22:44 Megaf performance improvements in Minetest? Really? haha, after this one I have to leave (haters gonna hate). Good nite all
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