IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-09-09

← Previous day | Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | Next day → | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
00:00	paramat	actually mapgen carpathian doesn't have crazy 3D noise structures and has lots of flat areas to build on
00:00	paramat	partly why it was added
00:00	paramat	better than mgv6 for building stuff
00:00		Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
00:00		Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
00:02	benrob0329	Megaf: gentoo probably could
00:03	benrob0329	And LFS, but thats not technically a distro
00:05	Megaf	rootVZHost:~# free -m
00:05	Megaf	total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
00:05	Megaf	Mem:             49          21           1           0          26          24
00:06	Megaf	Simply put, there's no reason somebody shoulnd't use Debian
00:06	Megaf	and I can reduce a lot / if I begin to remove some modules
00:08	Calinou	<Megaf> Simply put, there's no reason somebody shoulnd't use Debian
00:08	Calinou	suddenly: Fedora, Ubuntu, Arch, Antergos, Manjaro… :D
00:08	Calinou	there's no reason somebody should use Debian, I'd even say :P
00:09	Calinou	(I just find Fedora/Arch-based distros much better, these days)
00:09	Megaf	well, I used Fedora and Arch for many years
00:09	Calinou	(I still use Ubuntu Server 16.04 on my server, but I don't like how the software begins to be quite outdated already)
00:10	rubenwardy	Ooops "Your page has 3 redirects. Redirects introduce additional delays before the page can be loaded. https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4d2b9253178875b3e96bab226563cade"
00:15	Megaf	/dev/sda1 1886 379 1492 21% /
00:15	Megaf	379 MB used
00:17	Calinou	https://media.hugo.pro/explorer_2017-09-09_02-17-52.png
00:17	Calinou	I gotta do something… :|
00:18	Megaf	Calinou, use Linux
00:18	Megaf	it's a good start
00:19	Megaf	Calinou, right click on the drive, propeties and the thing to clean disk
00:19	Calinou	yeah, I know about that
00:20	Calinou	just run it, it didn't really free anything
00:20	Calinou	I'll just remove some stuff sitting in my Downloads folder :P
00:24	Megaf	I decided to put my downloads folder in a ramdisk
00:25	Megaf	it was always full...
00:33	Megaf	rootVZHost:~# df -h /dev/sda1
00:33	Megaf	Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
00:33	Megaf	/dev/sda1       1.9G  371M  1.5G  20% /
00:33	Megaf	o/
00:49	KaadmY	Calinou: yeah I saw Zandronum 3.0 yesterday :P
01:15		Megaf-Haiku joined #minetest-hub
01:40		Megaf-Haiku joined #minetest-hub
01:41	Megaf-Haiku	I can speak now
04:35		paramat joined #minetest-hub
06:01		ssieb joined #minetest-hub
06:09		nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
06:24	Hijiri	forum is broken
06:29	Hijiri	oh, everybody knows
06:30		CWz joined #minetest-hub
06:46	CWz	Ahoy there seems the forum is broken again
06:54	sofar	I've contacted the authorities :)
07:28		tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
07:28	tenplus1	hi folks
07:29	rdococ
07:30	tenplus1	hi rdococ
07:30	tenplus1	anyone know what's up with forums ???
07:39	Raven262	Calinou, Finally, No more shuttering on my PC (in zandronum).
07:39	Raven262	Gzdoom works very nice though.
07:39	tenplus1	hi raven
07:39	Raven262	Hi tenplus1
07:40	celeron55_	http://i.imgur.com/KH3PukH.png
07:40	celeron55_	/var wasn't happy
07:40	celeron55_	and, well, still isn't
07:40	tenplus1	o/ celeron
07:47	rdococ	hi
07:58	rdococ	Hunger now depletes your health if your bar is empty, but currently there is no way to get that to happen yet.
07:59	rdococ	well, unless you eat red mushrooms, which now make you hungry :P
08:02	tenplus1	???
08:05	rdococ	oh, I'm rambling on about my in-dev subgame
08:06	tenplus1	oh, thought you were using stamina mod for that
08:06	rdococ	nah, I'm creating it from scratch using code from my new health bar mod
08:06	tenplus1	ahh
08:07	rdococ	it's probably going to be similar, though
08:07	tenplus1	:P
08:09	rdococ	the game's probably different enough to cause some incompatibilities, e.g. in crafting recipes designed to use steel
08:10	rdococ	but I plan to readd steel by crafting iron ingots with coal anyway
08:10	tenplus1	being a sub-game you gotta add what needs to be added and fix it :)
08:10	tenplus1	that'll work
08:11	rdococ	iron lumps now smelt to form iron ingots, as opposed to steel ingots. at the moment, it uses the same textures as steel does, but that may change.
08:11	rdococ	crafting 5 iron ingots with 4 diamonds nets you cast iron (forgot how many ingots, though).
08:12	rdococ	cast iron replaces diamond in various aspects, and is usable as a stronger alternative to iron/steel as well in things like ladders
08:12	tenplus1	kewl
08:12	rdococ	Plan: buckets mod will be modified to add iron buckets, and cast iron buckets. only cast iron buckets will be able to carry damaging liquids, such as lava.
08:16	tenplus1	cklay buckets you gotta fire before being usable ?
08:17	rdococ	maybe
08:17	rdococ	hm, I swear there was a mod which already had wrought and cast iron
08:17	rdococ	I might add wrought iron, then mixing wrought with cast nets you steel
08:18	rdococ	but nah
08:20	rdococ	wait
08:20		lisac joined #minetest-hub
08:20	tenplus1	hi lisac
08:21	rdococ	new plan: cast iron won't be used in making tools and stuff
08:21	rdococ	instead, what are currently cast iron tools will be rebranded to steel tools. steel would be created by mixing wrought iron with cast iron.
08:21	rdococ	wrought iron will appear slightly orangish, cast iron slightly bluish.
08:22	lisac	hey tenplus1
08:22	lisac	rdococ, just make a high furnace and smelt steel
08:22	lisac	*iron
08:22	tenplus1	try not to over complicate things rdococ
08:22	lisac	or add white, grey and cast iron
08:22	* lisac	needs to re-read his textbook on machine materials
08:22	rdococ	having multiple furnaces doesn't even make sense
08:23	lisac	oh it does. High furnaces are how iron products are made
08:23	rdococ	what the heck is a high furnace
08:23	rdococ	did you give a furnace weed?
08:23	tenplus1	high temp furnace for smelting ores, normal furnace for food items
08:23	tenplus1	e.g.  Smelting Furnace
08:23	lisac	apparently my translation sucks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace
08:24	lisac	it's called 'Visoka Peć', literally 'High furnace' on Serbian
08:24	lisac	anyways, pure iron is very very hard to get, and is basically useless
08:24	rdococ	hmm
08:25	rdococ	meh, idk now
08:25	lisac	IIRC there are 3 main iron types
08:25	lisac	the carbon one (dark), the white one, and the other one
08:25	lisac	see, very descriptive
08:26	lisac	^ technical irons
08:26	rdococ	are you talking about iron, wrought iron and cast iron?
08:26	lisac	possibly
08:26	rdococ	cast iron is probably the carbon one
08:26	rdococ	wrought iron is likely to be the other one
08:26	rdococ	well, or steel
08:27	lisac	so, pig iron has a high carbon content
08:27	lisac	too high
08:27	lisac	you smelt it and add oxygen to reduce the carbon content
08:27	lisac	and get steel
08:27	rdococ	so...
08:27	lisac	so maybe just smelting pig iron should give you steel
08:27	rdococ	crude iron metal -> pig iron -> steel?
08:28	lisac	*ore
08:28	lisac	yes. And you can make it more complicated
08:28	rdococ	lisac: but I want steel to be rarer
08:28	lisac	Oh, simple. Require an expensive tech to convert iron to steel
08:28	lisac	and maybe give 1 steel for 4 iron
08:28	rdococ	I'm planning on using it to replace diamond tools...
08:29	lisac	there never should've been iron tools
08:29	rdococ	whadya mean?
08:29	lisac	in MT, you can make tools out of iron and get steel tools
08:29	lisac	right?
08:29	lisac	well, iron tools would break really fast
08:29	rdococ	in MT, iron lumps smelt into steel ingots
08:30	lisac	yeah
08:30	rdococ	hm, maybe I'm taking an incorrect approach
08:31	tenplus1	https://ftb.gamepedia.com/Steel
08:31	tenplus1	if it helps
08:32	rdococ	meh, I'm not sure I want to add a new type of furnace
08:32	rdococ	honestly, I think we need a furnace overhaul
08:33	tenplus1	yeah, 2 input slots for starters
08:33	lisac	maybe add iron and steel furnaces
08:33	lisac	so you've got stone, iron and steel one
08:33	lisac	when we are at how other games do it: https://wiki.factorio.com/Steel_plate
08:34	rdococ	I might add graphite, which would be used to create graphene/grapheme (spellcheck doesn't seem to recognize it) tools, which would be hard to craft but extremely strong
08:34	tenplus1	4x iron ingots + 1x coal lummp = 1x steel ingot
08:35	lisac	tenplus1, poor players
08:35	rdococ	perhaps
08:35	tenplus1	simple recipe to solve any confusion
08:35	rdococ	but maybe iron ore -> pig iron first?
08:35	tenplus1	and since steel is a lot stronger than iron and bronze it'll last longer to compensate player
08:35	rdococ	tenplus1: I was going to use steel to replace diamond tbh
08:35	lisac	rdococ, smelting iron should give you two other types of iron
08:36	lisac	not just one
08:36	rdococ	hm
08:36	rdococ	lisac: how would that work?
08:37	lisac	simply output pig and cast iron ingot out
08:37	lisac	most furnaces already have got 2 output slots, right?
08:37	rdococ	if I'm reading the situation on pig and cast iron correctly, aren't pig and cast iron similar anyway? even then, what would cast iron be used for? I plan for pig iron to smelt into steel, but cast iron?
08:38	lisac	cast iron has nice heat distribution properties
08:39	rdococ	would that be useful in, say, a cast iron furnace?
08:39	lisac	probably
08:39	rdococ	or... or maybe not
08:39	rdococ	idk
08:39	lisac	'The first cast-iron bridge was built during the 1770s by Abraham Darby III, and is known as The Iron Bridge.'
08:39	lisac	it is also good for building, apparently.
08:40	tenplus1	also brings in a good idea for iron blocks to become rusted over time giving decorative block
08:40	tenplus1	samwe way copper block has it's copper patina alternative in moreblocks
08:41	lisac	maybe differentiate different temperatures for materials in furnaces? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron#/media/File:Steel_pd.svg
08:42	rdococ	hm
08:42	rdococ	in regular mt_game, steel is as strong as bronze
08:43	tenplus1	going up in strength it should be iron -> bronze -> steel
08:44	lisac	and remove wood tools.
08:44	tenplus1	yes
08:45	lisac	allow digging of stone by hand, but make it slow
08:45	lisac	like, painfully slow
08:45	lisac	5 seconds per node slow.
08:45	rdococ	how would you dig stone by hand
08:45	lisac	you'd break off pieces
08:45	tenplus1	find stones among gravel, same with flint
08:45	lisac	then make a primitive pickaxe using them
08:45	tenplus1	put stones together to make blocks
08:46	lisac	tenplus1, isn't gravel a bit too rare to require player to find before being able to do anything?
08:46	rdococ	have you two created a subgame yet?
08:46	tenplus1	I made an ethereal subgame ages ago, but gave up on it to simple have the mod itself
08:46	rdococ	lisac: I already have gravel as a requirement for getting flint, to craft a "flint head" to chop trees, but I was gonna compensate by making gravel more common
08:47	lisac	hmm
08:47	lisac	I need to make a subgame
08:47	lisac	tenplus1, interested in a nice tech-based subgame, like tehnic?
08:47	tenplus1	would be a good idea :) especially if it ran on servers more smoothly
08:48	lisac	tracing lines is the reason some mods lag
08:48	lisac	like mesecons
08:48	lisac	what if we had fields, like factorio?
08:48	lisac	you place a power pole, and everything in vicinity is connected
08:48	tenplus1	mesecon and technic needs a complete overhaul
08:49	rdococ	mesecon's internals are weird, man
08:49	tenplus1	I'd remove the mesecon wires lighting up and have a simple abm in the background with some particles to show activity... less laggy
08:49	lisac	tenplus1, remove wires completely
08:49	tenplus1	wires are necessary
08:49	tenplus1	for certain machines
08:49	rdococ	not necessarily
08:49	lisac	for example?
08:49	rdococ	I don't think, anyway
08:50	lisac	my power pole idea would be nice, I think
08:50	rdococ	at least if you have a good replacement for it
08:50	tenplus1	go back to using mese dust and not the wires
08:50	lisac	tenplus1, I heard tracing lines is expensive
08:50	rdococ	say, being able to connect a receptor to an effector directly with a tool
08:50	tenplus1	it can be, yes
08:50	rdococ	and wirelessly
08:51	tenplus1	wireless interaction is advanced level mesecons,,, we need wires to begin with
08:51	tenplus1	otherwise there's no progression
08:51	lisac	tenplus1, maybe stronger machines require more power?
08:51	lisac	therefore stronger power poles
08:51	tenplus1	technic has lv mv hv machines for that
08:52	lisac	yes, but with line tracing
08:52	rdococ	I have a mod similar to mesecons/digilines, but it's a wireless signalling system
08:52	rdococ	what if, rather than connecting lines to connect blocks, you'd connect the blocks directly and a line would be drawn?
08:52	tenplus1	would be nice if placing a machine part would trace the line to the other side and only affect the machine nodes, leaving the wires out of it completely
08:53	tenplus1	that way a simple on place does the searching and the machine operation works only between the two
08:53	tenplus1	faster
08:53	lisac	what if we just draw lines between two connected machines?
08:54	tenplus1	have formspec deal with input./output coords
08:54	tenplus1	to direct link machines ?
08:55	lisac	hmm typing coords is painful
08:55	lisac	that's how basic_machines does it
08:55	tenplus1	have a button to PUNCH output machine
08:55	tenplus1	like the basic_machines mod does... only easier
08:55	tenplus1	that one runs many times faster than technic
08:55	tenplus1	no wires
08:55	lisac	hmm not a bad idea
08:56	tenplus1	what we need most is simplicity of use and progression (if possible)
08:56	lisac	also add infotext, 'Connected to <other machine name> at <other machine coords>'
08:56	rdococ	again, I have a wireless signalling system that allows you to connect two nodes by clicking on them with a tool
08:56	lisac	have two connections, input and output
08:57	lisac	input gives power and some data, output outputs data or power
08:57	rdococ	although it was designed for creative and so doesn't have a power system
08:57	tenplus1	battery input for charging, output for powering...  grinder for input (items) output (storage) but needs power
08:58	lisac	tenplus1, problem is if we've got generators that should be connected to multiple locations
08:58	lisac	maybe have power dispenser
08:58	lisac	that can be connected to 5 outputs
08:58	lisac	and 1 input
08:58	tenplus1	there's a lot to think about when it comes to machines i minetest
08:58	lisac	also have maxrange
08:58	lisac	in order to prevent 2000 nodes generator distance
08:58	tenplus1	unless you go totally steam power and have a compressor that uses coal
08:59	lisac	make player start with steam
08:59	tenplus1	or rope levels with no power requird :D
08:59	lisac	lol
08:59	shivajiva	Hi, what about punching the machines to connect them after issuing a command, with implied wiring underground that is not visible until you dig in the path?
08:59	tenplus1	eg, level at door, pull lever to connect to machine that opens doors only
09:00	lisac	shivajiva, formspec is simpler for enduser
09:00	tenplus1	start with simple machines/pulleys and make them more complicated as/when needed :D
09:00	lisac	not everyone will read a forum post on how to use it
09:00	tenplus1	hi shiva
09:00	lisac	but everyone will get the idea to rightclick a node
09:00	lisac	hey shivajiva
09:00	shivajiva	adding coords in a formspec is not simpler than punching :P
09:00	tenplus1	back laters, shopping time :)))
09:00		tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
09:01	lisac	we'll have punching, but you'll press a button in formspec to active it
09:01	shivajiva	like a master switch
09:04	lisac	is there any way to drop items in MT?
09:04	lisac	from a mod?
09:05	shivajiva	drop as in spawn into the world
09:05		Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
09:06	shivajiva	or remove an inventory item and spawn into the world
09:07	rdococ	uhm
09:08	lisac	yes
09:08	lisac	remove and spawn one
09:09	lisac	then have a transport belt that just moves every item on it forward
09:09	lisac	on the other side, have an inserter which picks up items from the node next to it and places it to the other side
09:11	shivajiva	yea you can do that in code but it would be quite heavy moving items node to node like a conveyor me thinks
09:18	rdococ	idea: copper wiring mechanism with copper ingots
09:22		DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
09:23	rdococ	hi DS-minetest
09:24	DS-minetest	hi
09:26	rdococ	heh
09:26	rdococ	https://xkcd.com/1180/
09:36		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
09:36		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
09:43		sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
09:51		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
09:51		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
09:58		Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
10:04	rdococ	does [resize use nearest neighbor when scaling up?
10:35		IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
10:35	IhrFussel	Are extended player attributes faster than global variables?
10:47	rdococ	heh, I should add kale that depletes your hunger
10:54	lisac	IhrFussel, I'd think they are slower
10:54	lisac	they not only write into RAM, but also save inside a file on HDD
10:54	lisac	right?
10:57	IhrFussel	lisac, they are saved to file every 15 secs by default
10:57	lisac	which would again make them slower then just using a variable.
10:57	IhrFussel	But I rather wanted to know whether accessing them in RAM is faster than accessing a global Lua var
10:58	lisac	variables are in RAM
10:58	lisac	not sure if lua has concept of cache
10:58	lisac	anyways, you could always test it
10:59	lisac	have a for loop write a thousand variables, and another write a thousand player attributes, check time it takes it to finish
10:59	lisac	do it a few times, get median value
10:59	IhrFussel	How do I get milliseconds in Lua?
11:00	lisac	http://lua-users.org/wiki/ProfilingLuaCode
11:01		Krock joined #minetest-hub
11:01	lisac	os.clock()
11:04	rdococ	In my subgame, lava will kill you instantly (that is, 20 damage per second rather than 8. If you find a way to get more max HP, you could still survive for longer, though.)
11:05	lisac	IhrFussel, https://pastebin.com/r8FhXhXU
11:06	lisac	that seems to do... something.
11:08	rdococ	lisac: is there a way to create a solidifed liquid that doesn't flow? It'd be pretty cool to be able to solidify lava.
11:08	lisac	um... what's the difference between a non-flowing liquid and an ordinary node?
11:09	rdococ	a non-flowing liquid would be able to take on the shape of a flowing liquid, but would be unable to spread.
11:09	lisac	oh
11:09	shivajiva	like a solid then
11:10	rdococ	like lava that has solidified instantly, remaining in the shape it was as a liquid but not flowing
11:10	lisac	yes; aren't flowing liquids just models, anyways?
11:10	lisac	register a node for every flowing shape
11:10	lisac	then replace them in an ABM
11:11	rdococ	what would happen if you set liquid viscosity to math.huge, though?
11:11	lisac	you'd force the poor player to kill himself.
11:11	lisac	once you touch it there is no escape
11:12	Krock	there's also core.get_us_time() which gives you a microsecond precision
11:12	rdococ	oh, ew
11:12	lisac	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4382
11:12	Krock	lisac, /spawn
11:12	lisac	ah it's the flow thing.
11:13	* lisac	wonders what happens in this case https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4453
11:13	lisac	does it flood itself?
11:13	lisac	and disappear?
11:14	lisac	or does it keep fading in and out?
11:14	lisac	flooding and not flooding?
11:14	Krock	huge lag, I suppose
11:15	rdococ	a floodable liquid
11:15	rdococ	I get the feeling that the liquid would flow into itself
11:15	rdococ	but might be wrong
11:15	rdococ	I feel the urge to test it
11:23		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
11:27		lisac joined #minetest-hub
11:27		DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
11:32	rdococ	hi DS-minetest
11:32	rdococ	(again)
11:34	DS-minetest	hi
11:36	Calinou	Raven262: also, I installed this launcher for Doom, https://github.com/Hypnotoad90/RocketLauncher2
11:36	Calinou	hi :)
11:37		cx384 joined #minetest-hub
11:43		Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
12:01		tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
12:01	tenplus1	hi folks
12:02	rdococ	hi
12:02	tenplus1	o/ rdococ
12:02		lisac joined #minetest-hub
12:02	tenplus1	hi lisac
12:02	Krock	hi tenplus1
12:03	tenplus1	hey Krock :)
12:03	rdococ	hi eleven
12:03	tenplus1	glad the forums are back up
12:03	rdococ	my subgame currently has a thirst mod, but your thirst only depletes when you are in sunlight
12:03	tenplus1	should also deplete when you are moving/working
12:03	tenplus1	same as hunger
12:04	rdococ	hunger depletes over time, but it depletes faster to heal you when you're damaged
12:04	rdococ	currently moving and doing things doesn't change the speed at which they deplete
12:04	rdococ	also, I'm probably using a bad method of timing depletions anyway
12:04	rdococ	how do other mods do it?
12:04	tenplus1	check stamina mod, it'll show you how it depletes when moving/digging
12:06	rdococ	odd how it modifies core.do_item_eat...
12:06	tenplus1	that's so it's compatible with every food item in every mod
12:06	rdococ	my hunger mod currently adds an on_item_eat callback that returns the itemstack with an item removed
12:07	rdococ	I thought all food items were standardized to use minetest.item_eat
12:07	rdococ	or, at least, all food items in the more popular mods
12:08	tenplus1	they are... which is why code.do_item_eat is overriden by stamina to use it's own function and still eat food
12:08	tenplus1	stamina mod beats hud/hunger and hbhunger in this
12:08	tenplus1	and is very light on resources
12:08	Megaf	Hi tenplus1, wb
12:08	tenplus1	hi Megaf
12:08	Raven262	Calinou, I'm used to running doom from console, but this launcher looks nice.
12:08	rdococ	I'd use the stamina mod, but meh
12:09	tenplus1	lol, stamina mod also adds sprinting
12:09	Megaf	Folks, I'm trying to build mt for windows here on linux, but I get this error. Can you please have a look? http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste/raw/master/CompilingMTforWindowsOnLinuxError
12:10	Megaf	This link for colourful text... http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste/src/master/CompilingMTforWindowsOnLinuxError
12:11	tenplus1	have you tried this Megaf https://www.ditchWindowsAndUseLinux.net
12:11	Megaf	I will actually click, it must be fun
12:12	rdococ	ugh, I'm thinking about adding the stamina mod but not sure
12:12	Megaf	yep, very fun tenplus1
12:12	rdococ	I know it's probably some flavor of open-source but I still don't like using mods from others
12:13	rdococ	idk why, even though I'm basing my subgame off minetest_game
12:13	tenplus1	rdococ: sign onto Xanadu for a tick if you wanna see stamina mod in action
12:13	rdococ	odd
12:14	rdococ	"this conflicts with the builtin breath bar. To move the builtin breath bar, I basically have to entirely re-implement it in lua including timers to catch breath changes for each online player, which is all a waste of time, just to move a few pixels around."
12:14	rdococ	...I guess that was written before the "override builtin hud" function was implemented
12:14	lisac	hey tenplus1
12:15	rdococ	it honestly doesn't make that much sense as to why the breath bar is builtin anyway tbh
12:15	lisac	tenplus1, still interested in that mod?
12:15	tenplus1	which mod lisac ?
12:16	lisac	Light easy to use automation mod
12:16	lisac	with electricity
12:17	lisac	Raven262 can do the textures. He joined already. Right, raven?
12:17	Raven262	Yeaaaaaa
12:17	cx384	hi tenplus1
12:18	tenplus1	hi cx384
12:18	* rdococ	gets to work on modifying stamina textures
12:18	tenplus1	I was thinking of a simple "Medeival Machines" mod that uses ropes to PULL mechanisms to open doors etc.
12:19	Shara	Hello
12:19	tenplus1	hi shara :)
12:19	Shara	Hi Ten :)
12:20	rdococ	hm
12:20	tenplus1	if pathfinding would allow you to follow certain nodes it'd be great for mesecon stuff
12:21	rdococ	should I replace the textures in the rdogame/mods/stamina folder, or override them in another mod?
12:21	tenplus1	but... from machine 1 to machine 2 we could use pathfinding to join them up with rope/wire to make sure it's connected and it's a LOT faster than mesecon checking
12:21	tenplus1	if you are replacing textures always do it within mod folder
12:22	lisac	tenplus1, problem with checking if it's in sight is that it needs to be checked every use
12:22	lisac	what if player puts a node over the 'cable'?
12:22	tenplus1	no no, when connecting two machines it checks once only and writes inside meta the coords for each machine location
12:23	tenplus1	that way machine works, uses coords and doesnt have to constantly check connection
12:24	lisac	yeah that's more-less the original idea
12:24	lisac	just have a button inside a node formspec to connect output to the other nodes input
12:24	lisac	like output of the generator to furnace input
12:24	lisac	and furnace output to some sort of an inserter to take stuff out when it's baked
12:25	rdococ	Yay, I got the stamina mod to look like my old hunger mod
12:25	tenplus1	and we could have a spool or wire or rope that uses pathfinding to connect machines and remove X amount of wire/rope from the bundle when connected
12:26	rdococ	...???
12:26	lisac	not very easy to use, ten
12:26	rdococ	is the stamina mod increasing my HP to 21?
12:26	lisac	players might not figure out how to connect machines
12:26	rdococ	I keep getting an extra half-heart
12:27	tenplus1	once the initial workings has been sorted then messages/mouseovers can be used
12:27	rdococ	tenplus1: in the stamina mod, can my saturation exceed 20 (by default)?
12:28	cx384	water mills and wind mills would be nice to create mechanical energy.
12:28	tenplus1	it has settings to increase saturation max
12:28	rdococ	cx384: I had the idea of a cog mod
12:28	tenplus1	heh, cogs are what minecraft would have originally added instead of redstone :P
12:29	rdococ	true :P
12:29	rdococ	a cog would check the rotational speed of its neighbors. if all of them were equal, it would set its rotational speed to the negation of that.
12:30	rdococ	hm
12:30	rdococ	well, if all of them had the same sign or were 0
12:30	cx384	I want to build this in minetest :D https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Gear_5-bar_linkage.gif
12:31	tenplus1	heh
12:31	rdococ	tenplus1: what do you think about a simple copper wiring system?
12:32	rdococ	you'd have to build circuits, otherwise the electricity wouldn't flow
12:32	tenplus1	sounds good
12:32	tenplus1	and give copper a good use
12:32	rdococ	circuits would be detected recursively (maybe?)
12:32	lisac	tenplus1, make crafting need chopper wire
12:32	lisac	for the max range of the node connecting
12:32	lisac	like 10 if 10 nodes is the max distance
12:32	lisac	make 1 ingot give 2 wires
12:33	tenplus1	yeh... and when connecting wires use pathfind to remove and place needed wires and write meta
12:33	rdococ	lisac: I also had the idea of a survival-mode connection tool for my trigger mod, which would store the number of wires it was fed with and deplete it by the distance between two nodes when it is used to connect them
12:34	lisac	tenplus1, more like show no sign of connection but infotext.
12:34	lisac	else it becomes a bit laggy. Placing nodes.
12:34	lisac	rdococ, problem is then a player with 500 chopper could move electricity 1000 nodes away
12:35	lisac	you know, extremely long distances
12:36	rdococ	lisac: yeah, but unless we want the wires to actually show then no pathfinding is needed
12:36	lisac	I'd much rather force players to build some sort of repeaters inbetween for longer distances
12:37	rdococ	true
12:37	tenplus1	we do need a sort of wire setup if possible, but something nowhere as laggy as mesecons
12:37	rdococ	you could simply set a maximum range for that, though
12:38	lisac	tenplus1, I don't see why
12:38	cx384	this is a minecraft mod cable but I think this is not possible with minetest https://media-curse.cursecdn.com/attachments/152/607/1ccfc64fde13e87f5a2074cdde98412f.png
12:39	lisac	it forces a very strange design because you can't place wires inside walls
12:39	lisac	without making 3 node walls
12:39	rdococ	that's true
12:39	lisac	cx384, that looks great
12:39	lisac	awesome, actually. We need it
12:39	tenplus1	if only we could do that sorta thing in mt
12:39	rdococ	we def. need that
12:40	lisac	tenplus1, maybe objects?
12:40	lisac	for the wires
12:40	lisac	downward lines are harder, tho
12:40		srifqi joined #minetest-hub
12:40	tenplus1	hi srifqi
12:41	srifqi	hi tenplus1
12:43	srifqi	Anybody knows what will I get when I do minetest.settings:get("mgv5_np_ground") ? Will it be a table? How to store it?
12:44	lisac	use print(dump())
12:44	lisac	it will give you the contents of it
12:44	srifqi	Let me try.
12:44	tenplus1	local var = minetest.settings:get("mgv5_np_ground") ; print ("--- type:", type(var))
12:45	tenplus1	will tell you exactly what it is
12:45	srifqi	Okay, let's try both of them.
12:45	* srifqi	is wondering why GIMP loads longer after Windows Creator Update.
12:45		Fixer joined #minetest-hub
12:46	rdococ	creator update?
12:46	tenplus1	*shudders* at windows 10 updates
12:48	srifqi	Do you think, what happens when GIMP stuck on Font loading?
12:48	tenplus1	prolly remaking fonts list for windows
12:48	srifqi	Oh, it requires administrator now.
12:48	lisac	srifqi, easy to fix. Download a pirated version with spy stuff turned off. It also turns of the updates.
12:49	Fixer	it is still bad
12:49	Fixer	here is why
12:49	Fixer	actually no
12:49	Fixer	download pirated ltsb version and you should be fine
12:49	srifqi	ltsb?
12:49	Fixer	install security only updates
12:50	Fixer	anyway I'm staying on Win7
12:50	rdococ	lisac: sounds like an awful lot of trouble when you could get linux
12:51	Fixer	completely disabling updates is not good
12:51	tenplus1	hi Fixer and totally agree, Win7 is the better choice
12:51	srifqi	"2017-09-09 19:51:13: ERROR[Main]: Setting [mgv5_np_ground] is a group."
12:51	Fixer	beauty of previous Windowses was ability to choose what to update, now you have no choice, you suck it up, or you suck without updates
12:52	Fixer	is not W10 updates are cumulative?
12:52	tenplus1	microsoft could have easily re-written windows from the ground UP and fixed many of it's problems along the way
12:52	Fixer	so you can't really skip anything
12:52	srifqi	So, we can't use minetest.settings:get() to get a group?
12:53	srifqi	Back to on topic, please. :(
12:53	Fixer	what topic?
12:53		nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
12:53	srifqi	So, we can't use minetest.settings:get() to get a group?
12:54	lisac	Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "zesty" 17.04 • CPU: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G (1.40GHz) • Memory: Physical: 6.6 GiB Total (4.6 GiB Free) Swap: 7.9 GiB Total (7.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 644.6 GB / 1.1 TB (445.0 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h • Uptime: 54m 7s
12:54	lisac	I'm on Linux
12:54	lisac	but Skyrim doesn't work well here
12:54	lisac	especially on this GPU
12:56	tenplus1	hi nrz
12:56	rdococ	hi nrz
12:56	srifqi	hi nerzhul
12:57	Fixer	hi
12:57	rdococ	hi
12:58	rdococ	is it normal for stamina mod to give me 21 HP?
12:58	nerzhul	lisac, what command did you use for that ?
12:58	nerzhul	hi all
12:58	Raven262	Hi nerzhul
12:58	tenplus1	o/
12:58	lisac	/sysinfo
12:58	lisac	it's a hexchat plugin
12:58	nerzhul	installed by default ?
12:58	rdococ	HexChat: 2.10.1 ** OS: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 ** Distro: Debian 8.6 ** CPU: 4 x AMD A4-6210 APU with AMD Radeon R3 Graphics     (AuthenticAMD) @ 1.20GHz ** RAM: Physical: 3.3GiB, 53.8% free ** Disk: Total: 913.4GiB, 89.5% free ** VGA: 1002:9850 ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic1: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic ** Ethernet: 10ec:8136 ** Uptime: 2d 7h 26m 43s **
12:58	lisac	hey nerzhul
12:59	Raven262	Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (x64) • CPU: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G   (3.10GHz) • Memory: 5.9 GiB Total (2.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 301.4 GiB / 611.0 GiB (309.6 GiB Free) • VGA: AMD Radeon(TM) R7 Graphics • Uptime: 3h 1m 17s
12:59	lisac	I think so
12:59	rdococ	depends
12:59	nerzhul	Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (1,40GHz) • Memory: 23,0 Gio Total (20,5 Gio Free) • Storage: 847,5 Go / 1,3 To (463,9 Go Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Tahiti XT [Radeon HD 7970/8970 OEM / R9 280X] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RD9x0/RX980 Host Bridge • Uptime: 7m 16s
12:59	rdococ	heh, I'm still using an old ver :P
12:59	nerzhul	i see :p
12:59	lisac	:P
12:59	rdococ	I tend to get stuck in the past :P
12:59	rdococ	not when it comes to minetest 0.5.0, though, I hope :P
13:00	nerzhul	why does it said 1.4Ghz my processor can run at 4.2 GHZ :p
13:00	nerzhul	i think it's because it's not used :p
13:00	lisac	Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "zesty" 17.04 • CPU: AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G (1.90GHz) • Memory: Physical: 6.6 GiB Total (4.5 GiB Free) Swap: 7.9 GiB Total (7.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 644.6 GB / 1.1 TB (445.0 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 15h • Uptime: 1h 0m 9s
13:00	Fixer	AMD users o_O
13:00	lisac	youtube must take a lot of CPU then
13:01	lisac	Fixer, AMD>Intel
13:01	lisac	can you cook soup on intel CPUs? No?
13:01	Krock	^
13:01	lisac	or create baked goods?
13:01	Fixer	you can cook on any CPU
13:01	Krock	you can cook soup and eggs on a Riva TNT graphics card or P3/P4
13:01	lisac	or heat your room during winter?
13:01	nerzhul	Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4,00GHz) • Memory: 23,0 Gio Total (20,2 Gio Free) • Storage: 847,4 Go / 1,3 To (464,0 Go Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Tahiti XT [Radeon HD 7970/8970 OEM / R9 280X] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RD9x0/RX980 Host Bridge • Uptime: 9m 43s
13:01	nerzhul	ah it's better when i compile MT :D
13:01	nerzhul	4.0 ghz :p
13:02	srifqi	"sysinfo :Unknown command"
13:02	tenplus1	brb
13:02	srifqi	see you
13:03	lisac	hey can you try this nerzhul? while true; do make clean && make -j ; done
13:03	srifqi	XD
13:04	* DS-minetest	found out something interesting
13:04	nerzhul	it's already a make -j 8
13:04	nerzhul	i have 8 cores :)
13:05	cx384	I have only 2.
13:05	srifqi	DS-minetest, what is it?
13:05	Krock	DS-minetest, was it this? https://i.imgur.com/GRTZ35l.jpg
13:06	rdococ	lol
13:06	DS-minetest	Krock: the right or the left one? X3
13:07	DS-minetest	you know, that if you walk on the edge of a node, there are no footsteps. if you eg. throw an item on the edge it will glide
13:07	tenplus1	hi DS
13:07	DS-minetest	hi
13:08	Krock	DS-minetest, long known features
13:09	* DS-minetest	didn't try it before >_<
13:09	cx384	http://i.imgur.com/7heihIA.jpg :}
13:17	cx384	The minetest coral texture is really ugly compared with this http://imgur.com/gallery/jaDHhWa.
13:21		Amaz joined #minetest-hub
13:22	tenplus1	wb amaz
13:23	Amaz	ty :)
13:26	rdococ	cx384: lol
13:37	rdococ	hi tenplus1
13:37	tenplus1	o/
13:37	rdococ	should I bother creating a copper wiring system, then?
13:38	tenplus1	am trying to think of the best way to handle it which would be easy to use and give progression
13:40	rdococ	components could either put themselves in the "conductive" group, or have an "is_conductive" function (to enable for nodes whose conductivity varies, without using set/swap_node, or for nodes whose conductivity can only be determined when the node is checked). nodes could also have an on_conduct function, which is called when the node becomes powered, or loses power.
13:41	tenplus1	sounds like a plan, but what differs from basic_machines and current mesecons ?
13:41	rdococ	nodes would manipulate electrical signals not through emitting or sending them, but purely through allowing a signal through or not.
13:41	rdococ	tenplus1: wires must form a circuit
13:42	rdococ	idk yet whether the wires themselves should turn on or off, or just whether wires should dictate how to trace the current
13:43	rdococ	sorta like silicons, but the wires aren't bundled for you
13:43	tenplus1	they should only dictate current.. .changing wires on conductivity is what slows down mesecons too much
13:44	rdococ	agreed
13:44	rdococ	hm, what should I call the mod? circuits?
13:44	tenplus1	machines should do their work without changing nodes around it for look alone... if anything a mouseover comment.text is ok
13:44	rdococ	true
13:47	rdococ	when a switch is flipped from on to off or vice versa, it should trace to find a battery in front of it - if it does, then it should see if the battery can trace to form a complete circuit
13:50	tenplus1	but tracing each and every time is a pain and slowdown... am thinking of placement in general updating circuit check once and once only on place/remove
13:52	tenplus1	am wondering how minecraft does it so smoothly with redstone, if I could remember the sourcecode site I used for mc I'd check it out
13:53	rdococ	you have to account for the fact that redstone has a finite signal strength, too
13:53	rdococ	s/strength/rnnge/
13:53	rdococ	s/rnnge/range/
13:54	srifqi	I was using buildbot64.sh, how to make it not reconfigure so that I don't have to compile ALL of them.
13:54	tenplus1	that's fine, if I can figure HOW they do it so fast then it'll help in porting it across to minetest minuns signal strength if needed
13:54	srifqi	I mean, I was using "make -j2" inside _build.
13:54	rdococ	it is weird how redstone isn't laggy in minecraft
13:54	rdococ	I mean, it even uses java
13:55	tenplus1	that's why I think it uses check_circuit_on_place instead of each and every iteration by machine
13:56	rdococ	hm
13:57	rdococ	unrelated idea: admin-customizable privilege groups, so "/grant tenplus1 mod" would add kick, ban, etc. but not server or worldedit
13:57	tenplus1	? explain
13:58	tenplus1	https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/tree/master/net/minecraft/server minecraft decompiled code... checking for redstone now
14:00	rdococ	tenplus1: You would be able to define "privilege groups". When a group is granted, every priv that is part of it is granted. When it is revoked, every priv that is part of it is revoked.
14:00	tenplus1	I think granting specific privs is a lot easier than setting up groups
14:00	rdococ	you think?
14:01	tenplus1	to me anywat
14:01	tenplus1	*anyway
14:01	rdococ	I find it kind of difficult that I can't have a set list of privs for "moderators", a set list of privs for "admins", etc.
14:01	rdococ	meh, I might create it myself as a lua mod.
14:02	tenplus1	I grant privs depending on player ability/trust
14:02	rdococ	hm
14:02	Shara	Same as Ten, but TPS servers do have groups like that
14:02	Shara	DEspite being an admin there, I've never used the groups though
14:03	srifqi	Oh, I can run "make minetest/fast".
14:03	Shara	I really prefer to grant based on the individual player and which things I think they are good at handling
14:03	tenplus1	hrm, I just confused myself looking at redstone wire code: https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneWire.java
14:07	tenplus1	from what I gather redstone components use an internal timer to check for nearby power to turn things on or off
14:07	tenplus1	it's all in server ticks though
14:07	tenplus1	e.g. redstonelamps check themselves every 4 ticks to turn itself on or off depending on touching nodes
14:07	IhrFussel	MC ticks are 0.05 secs maybe that's what makes it look so fluent
14:08	tenplus1	hi fussel
14:08	tenplus1	can you imagine minetest checking every 0.05 * 4 seconds for neighbouring power to turn a lamp on or off... it'd lag like nuts
14:10	rdococ	how the hell does MC pathfind that quickly?
14:10	tenplus1	https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneTorch.java this is a redstone torch that provides power
14:11	Krock	pro code: https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneTorch.java#L90
14:11	Krock	almost readable
14:11	tenplus1	it does a sort of nodeupdate_single when placed for touching redstone components and runs their version of applied physics (on place) again
14:13	nerzhul	Krock, java powa xD
14:13	nerzhul	and function is called m
14:13	tenplus1	lol
14:14	tenplus1	seems each redstone component (or mc block in general) has a DoPhysics function that can be called when something changes around it
14:14	rdococ	oh yeah, the block updates
14:14	rdococ	why didn't I think of those?
14:15	tenplus1	and only if something changes it'll pass onto the next block and run it's DoPhysics etc.etc
14:15	tenplus1	so redstone lights up, doors open, machines work etc et
14:15	rdococ	hm, does minetest have that?
14:16	tenplus1	it doesnt have to constantly check the whole circuit
14:16	rdococ	wait, mesecons constantly checks the whole circuit?
14:16	tenplus1	cause it eventually whittles down from A (power) to B (machine)
14:16	rdococ	why would it do that?
14:16	rdococ	ah, it's gradual
14:16	tenplus1	hrm, I understand why redstone works much smoother
14:16	rdococ	it sounds like we need a queue
14:17	tenplus1	the DoPhysics is only called around the 6 faces of the block, never the diagonals, so saves 8 additional checks that way too
14:22	rdococ	hm
14:22	rdococ	do block updates happen sequentially, or in one server step? I can't imagine the latter
14:22	tenplus1	each block has it's own internal timers doing it's own thing
14:23	rdococ	oh, wow, nodetimers
14:23	tenplus1	so if redstone torch is placed its timers check around it once only and update the next lot of nodes which start their own timers etc to cehck for power or not
14:23	tenplus1	it radiates outward until nothing else needs to be checked
14:24	tenplus1	checking level code
14:24	rdococ	meh, that could still be made more efficient but that's nuts
14:24	tenplus1	it saves checking a whole line of components and wires, it only updates what needs to be updated this way
14:26	rdococ	to be honest, it sounds like mesecons and digilines, not only technic, were designed pretty badly
14:26	tenplus1	we could speed it up by getting a find_nodes_in_area(pos1, pos2, {"group:redstone_component"}) and running through a for loop to initiate each one's DoPhysics function
14:26	rdococ	hm, does minecraft use the equivalent of nodetimers, then?
14:27	tenplus1	yeah, when you plaec a block it has the ability to set internal timers
14:27	tenplus1	from what I see here
14:27	rdococ	ah, so I guess we should do that?
14:28	tenplus1	tht way if player is out of range nothing happens, and when in range it contionues the timer
14:28	rdococ	now we just need someone willing to redesign technic :P
14:28	tenplus1	https://github.com/Bukkit/mc-dev/blob/master/net/minecraft/server/BlockRedstoneTorch.java#L51
14:29	tenplus1	that function onPlace (redstone torch) starts applyPhysics of each block around it, and each block does it's own thing...
14:29	rdococ	ah
14:29	tenplus1	rdococ: start with mesecons and simple machinery, once that works well we can add machine by machine and get ppl involved :D
14:29	DS-minetest	actually mesecons isn't laggy…
14:30	tenplus1	I have an intel atom, I FEEL the lag
14:30	tenplus1	:P
14:30	rdococ	and you don't feel the lag with redstone? :P
14:30	tenplus1	I tinkered with it once and gave jeia some changes, he no like :P ahah
14:30	DS-minetest	what changes?
14:30	tenplus1	redstone works in a different way, but it seems smoother
14:30	tenplus1	DS-minetest: was a few swap_node instead of set_node changes that sped things up a lot
14:31	DS-minetest	aha
14:31	tenplus1	so long as no node-meta exists then swap_nodes are perfect... that's why I use it for Fire Redo mod
14:31	rdococ	tenplus1: why does he no like then?
14:31	tenplus1	wish I knew...
14:32	cx384	IMO mesecons is laggy.
14:32	rdococ	hm
14:32	tenplus1	what spec is your pc cx ? and have tyou used it in a server environment ?
14:32	DS-minetest	afaik mesecons can only cause lag when something happens
14:33	rdococ	tenplus1: wait, does it check EVERY 4 server ticks?
14:33	tenplus1	heh, when in use and changing things it can lag... but on it's own sitting doing nothing it's non-laggy :D
14:33	DS-minetest	yeah, because nothing happens…
14:33	tenplus1	lol
14:34	rdococ	meh, nodetimers
14:35	DS-minetest	poor mesecons devs, there are still 11 PRs from me open
14:35	rdococ	lol
14:35	cx384	o.O
14:35	DS-minetest	some of them non trivial
14:36	rdococ	lol
14:37	cx384	tenplus1, giant mesecon structures are laggy.(for example a calculator)
14:37	Fixer	rdococ: automation in default mtg
14:37	tenplus1	I had a server of Robbie's where they used a blinky plant to turn on/off 10 lights... it lagged that whole area to hell and back
14:38	tenplus1	using swap_node in the lights helped a lot, but still bad
14:38	tenplus1	checking mesecon actionqueue.lua to see how it operates now
14:40	DS-minetest	well, placing light nodes lags in minetest
14:41	tenplus1	since particles have glow feature, would be nice if we could do same with nodes... have them full brightness but without affecting light around them... just so they are SEEN in the dark
14:41	rdococ	^
14:42	tenplus1	e.g.  light_source = -10  -- light up node at level 10 light all the time but without affecting nearby nodes
14:42	DS-minetest	do you know if minetest.get_objects_inside_radius radius is limited?
14:42	tenplus1	to hoe many objects ? or radius ?
14:42	tenplus1	*how
14:42	DS-minetest	no the radius
14:43	tenplus1	could make a test scenario and check :)
14:43	tenplus1	1 to 1000 radius ;D
14:43	DS-minetest	or i look into code
14:43	tenplus1	:P
14:43	rdococ	my subgame has unlit torches which you have to light with flint and steel, but they don't burn out unless you dig them again
14:44	tenplus1	rdococ: Real Torch mod handles this
14:44	rdococ	tenplus1: but I said /don't/ burn out
14:44	tenplus1	ah, so you find them, light them and they stay on... forever!!!!!!!!
14:44	tenplus1	:P
14:45	rdococ	yes
14:45	rdococ	lol
14:46	rdococ	you just need the ignition to start the exothermic reaction which enables our two face-adorning watery sacks to determine the rough geometry of the areas near the torch
14:46	tenplus1	hah, love it :P
14:47	tenplus1	I made real torch so you could light with gunpowder to re-ignite the embers... but if torch already lit you get hurt in the explosion :D hah
14:47	rdococ	tbh it'd be a pain to have to relight the torch constantly, even with lighters that never run out
14:47	rdococ	heh
14:48	tenplus1	giving them a life is a bit of realism... I should make the burnt out torches give 1 light only so you can at leasdt see them in the dark to relight
14:49	rdococ	unlit torches in my mod give out 4 light, I believe
14:49	rdococ	they are also 3d
14:49	tenplus1	can someone explain this please: https://github.com/minetest-mods/mesecons/blob/master/mesecons_blinkyplant/init.lua#L22
14:49		Megaf joined #minetest-hub
14:49	tenplus1	before blinkyplants had 3 nodes (on, off, inactive)... now it's 1 mode with 3x different changes... how's that work ?
14:49	tenplus1	wb Megaf
14:50	tenplus1	did I miss a note update or something ?
14:50	Megaf	not happy
14:50	rdococ	tenplus1: uh, I think mesecon.register_node is just a way to register multiple nodes at once easier
14:50	rdococ	note the "not_in_creative_inventory=1" group in the "on" state
14:50	tenplus1	a crap, didnt even see the mesecon. part at the start... ahahahahaa, custom function
14:50	rdococ	lol
14:51	tenplus1	false alarm, thought we had new features for a sec :d
14:51	rdococ	stuff like that is one of the reasons I love lua
14:51	tenplus1	been tinkering with LUA outwith minetest, it's pretty nifty at other stuff, even gui programs
14:52	rdococ	I once jokingly suggested a lua api for an irc bot written in python :P
14:52	tenplus1	hah
14:52	tenplus1	from what I'm reading, lua is better and smaller than python in most cases
14:52	rdococ	yeah
14:52	tenplus1	am surprised users dont convert existing code across and see if it runs any better
14:53	DS-minetest	looks like it's not limited
14:54	rdococ	does minetest.get_objects_inside_radius check each object to see if it falls inside the radius?
14:54	rdococ	(I hope so, otherwise the universe is broken :P)
14:55	tenplus1	lol it should
14:55	nerzhul	for those who are interested, i tested and succeed to create automated debian repository using gitlab pages :D
14:55	nerzhul	https://gitlab.com/nerzhul/debianrepo
14:55	DS-minetest	yes, it checks the distance of each active object to the position if it's bigger than radius
14:55	nerzhul	i build / download two packages, and create a repository, publish on gitlab pages and it works heh
14:55	nerzhul	maybe sfan5 we should add a step to have https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest debian/ubuntu repository ? :D
14:56	nerzhul	daily snapshot build + repo :p without hands
14:57	rdococ	hm
14:57	tenplus1	http://lua-users.org/wiki/GraphicalUserInterfaceToolkits
14:57	rdococ	I should modify my hearts bar mod (a part of my subgame that changes the health bar) to support >10 hearts
15:00	rdococ	and maybe add a system for displaying status effects like poison
15:00	rdococ	btw, have you seen my status effects mod yet?
15:00	rdococ	it's pretty extendable
15:02	rdococ	can't wait til 0.6.0, though
15:02	tenplus1	:P lol
15:03	rdococ	I'm trying out 0.6.0-dev from a time travelling friend of mine
15:03	tenplus1	ah kewl... do i still rule the world in 2023 ?
15:04	rdococ	lemme ask him
15:04	rdococ	back
15:04	rdococ	and he says you die on Friday 8th September 2017.....wait... that was YESTERDAY!
15:04	tenplus1	seem IUP is the better gui front-end for LUA: http://webserver2.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/en/gallery_dlg.html
15:04	rdococ	brb, gonna ask him about the temporal inconsistency
15:04	tenplus1	o.O <-- sudden realisation!!!  zombie me :P
15:05	rdococ	huh, apparently you died yesterday, but then was revived
15:05	rdococ	I'm gonna ask him why he couldn't give me 0.6.0-stable to try out.
15:07	rdococ	ahhh. he says it's because an asteroid will impact Earth on the 3rd of March, 1972...wait...
15:16	Megaf	old console geeks might like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fffb-_VCuCo
15:17	Megaf	megadrives more precisely
15:19	tenplus1	you ever seen the Armiga yet ?
15:19	tenplus1	https://www.armigaproject.com/
15:20	Megaf	not really
15:20	Megaf	but there are AmigaOS OSes for PC
15:20	tenplus1	this is a tiny console device with build in floppy that'll let you read your original amiga floppies and store them on internal sd card to play :D
15:21	Megaf	tenplus1, it looks too small for me...
15:21	rdococ	dammit, I wish I could hop on xanadu
15:22	Megaf	Why cant you?
15:22	tenplus1	dont you have a bootable flash drive ?
15:24	Megaf	Im still watching the megadrive video, he plugged into a commodore CRT, oh boy, amazing image
15:25	tenplus1	yeah, the old Commodore 1084S monitors were amazing (had one)
15:33	rdococ	Megaf: "Sorry, no new players being admitted at this time!"
15:33	tenplus1	ooh, lemmie open border :)
15:34	tenplus1	done
15:35	rdococ	YAY
15:42	Calinou	did you build a wall to keep new players out? ;)
15:43	tenplus1	lol, we have a border to stop offenders entering server
15:43	benrob0329	Only mobile players ;-)
15:43	nerzhul	rdococ, what do you mean ? which feature do you need in core ?
15:44	nerzhul	(status effect, 0.6.0, etc)
15:51	tenplus1	lol dude
15:52	tenplus1	swear filter got you :)
15:56	rdococ	nerzhul: it was a joke :
15:56	rdococ	P
15:57	nerzhul	oh
15:57	benrob0329	Ugg, 10 hours+ of rendering later, and I still have a couple things to fix
15:58	tenplus1	long rendering time ... movie or still ?
15:58	benrob0329	Doctor Who fan intro :P
15:58	benrob0329	Maybe even the first in blender :D
15:58	Fixer	tenplus1: costs too much
15:59	tenplus1	:P
16:00	rdococ	lol
16:00	tenplus1	did you actually swear in german ?
16:00	Fixer	tenplus1: costs as much as original one for sale
16:00	rdococ	tenplus1: yes
16:00	tenplus1	true but better than original in a sense
16:02	benrob0329	Aw dang, this guy beat me to it: https://youtu.be/kYRR4BKmb5o
16:03	benrob0329	And this...thing: https://youtu.be/TFk0AHIMOII
16:03	tenplus1	oh man, this one is really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
16:06	benrob0329	Lol, this one actually is really good: https://youtu.be/6x-h6XMI8qQ
16:07	tenplus1	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qra6fc47jAY in 360 VR if you have it
16:08	benrob0329	Hmm...his tardis is animated better XD
16:10	benrob0329	*animation
16:11	Fixer	tenplus1: you can install emulator and use already digitized diskette files, 0 usd
16:12	tenplus1	true
16:12	tenplus1	UAE is pretty good
16:12	Fixer	hack, you can buy PI3 and emulate _everything_
16:14	benrob0329	Fixer: nice markdown
16:15	tenplus1	pi3 is pretty good...
16:16	rdococ	hack
16:22	rdococ	lol
16:25	* rdococ	hugs tenplus1
16:25	tenplus1	lol
16:26	Megaf	speaking of pi3
16:26	rdococ	lol
16:26	Megaf	I wonder if I could stick a pi zero on my keyboard
16:26	rdococ	my trigger mod is so hacky it redefined minetest.register_node
16:26	Megaf	in my keyboard I mean
16:26	rdococ	s/ed/es/
16:27	Megaf	I have a very nice 8 Euro USB keyboard, and it looks quite old school
16:27	Megaf	it'd be nice if I could it plug it to a TV
16:27	rdococ	although to be fair it handles it kinda well
16:32	benrob0329	rdococ: why would you do that...thats going to potentially break everything
16:36	rdococ	benrob0329: ik
16:36	rdococ	:P
16:37	rdococ	benrob0329: to be honest, though, it runs "old_register_node(...);" first, then does its stuff afterwards
16:37	rdococ	although, if it errors, the error's going to pop up there instead of where minetest.register_node was called
16:55		Natechip joined #minetest-hub
16:55		Natechip joined #minetest-hub
16:55	tenplus1	hi Natechip
16:55	Natechip	hi tenplus1
16:55	garywhite	morning all
16:55	tenplus1	hi gary
16:55	tenplus1	o/
16:55	garywhite	o/
16:56	Natechip	guess my PC shutdown somehow O_O
16:56	tenplus1	o-
16:56	Natechip	welp now my uptime is gone XD
16:56	tenplus1	uptime; 0.2 seconds now... clean slate :D
16:56		kaeza joined #minetest-hub
16:56	tenplus1	hi kaeza
16:57	kaeza	hi tenplus1
16:57	tenplus1	:P
16:58	Natechip	meh
16:58	Natechip	it was at 5 weeks
16:58	Natechip	._.
17:00	tenplus1	record time
17:08	rdococ	lol
17:15	srifqi	Anybody knows why some elements in dialog just ignored? ... or have I done something wrong?
17:15	tenplus1	how you mean ?
17:20	srifqi	I mean, when a dialog only consist of 2 checkboxes and 2 buttons, it works well. But, when there are 9 textboxes, 6 checkboxes, and 2 buttons, the checkboxes ignored.
17:20	tenplus1	hrm, weird bug
17:22	tenplus1	add an issue if it persists
17:23		paramat joined #minetest-hub
17:23	tenplus1	hi paramat
17:28	srifqi	hi paramat
17:30	paramat	wow, reading logs, this channel has been on-topic today, amazing
17:30	tenplus1	:P
17:34	srifqi	tenplus1, nvm, I forgot to modify an if statement. :P
17:34	tenplus1	lol
17:34	rubenwardy	paramat, lol
17:34	tenplus1	o/ ruben
17:34	rubenwardy	o/
17:35	rubenwardy	how's everyone?
17:35	srifqi	paramat, I'm still working on the noise params with flags setting.
17:35	srifqi	rubenwardy, I'm fine.
17:36	tenplus1	For anyone using them, MObs Redo API and Lucky Blocks has been updated
17:36	kaeza	srifqi, I'd guess you have some syntax error in your form making the parser ignore the rest
17:36	kaeza	srifqi, can you `print` your form and pastebin it?
17:36	tenplus1	also... https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6396 yay! :) we need 'dis
17:37	srifqi	Probably. But seems like for my case, it just my algorithm, not Minetest's.
17:40		Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
17:40	tenplus1	wb raven
17:41	Megaf	Anyone here with a Skylake CPU and windows to try my build when it finishes building?
17:41	Megaf	build of minetest
17:42	srifqi	Have Windows 10, but what is Skylake?
17:42	tenplus1	intel cpu
17:43	paramat	srifqi i really appreciate it, and i'm so sorry about disapproving your long running PR
17:43	rubenwardy	tenplus1 :D
17:44	srifqi	paramat, nvm, that's two years ago. This one is better. :)
17:44	tenplus1	?
17:44	Megaf	It has to be an intel Skylake because I optimized it for Skylake, I dont know if it will run on other CPUs
17:44	Megaf	These are Intel Skylake CPUs http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/37572/Skylake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)
17:45	* tenplus1	currently has THIS bad boy; http://ark.intel.com/products/49490/Intel-Atom-Processor-D525-1M-Cache-1_80-GHz
17:46	rubenwardy	lol
17:46	tenplus1	.. and this running on a separate desktop where I gotta fix a cscale issue with the processor to get it working: http://ark.intel.com/products/78868/Intel-Pentium-Processor-J2900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_67-GHz
17:47	Megaf	my badboy products.amd.com/en-us/search/APU/AMD-E-Series-Processors/AMD-E1-Series-APU-for-Laptops/E1-6010-with-Radeonâ„¢-R2-Graphics/94
17:47	kaeza	rubenwardy, req: add which node (pos?) caused death to `node_damage`
17:47	rubenwardy	kaeza, that's hard
17:47	rubenwardy	well
17:47	rubenwardy	not that hard
17:47	Megaf	tenplus1, I have the AMD version of your CPU, but with half the threads
17:47	rubenwardy	the code sums the node_damage of all the nodes around it
17:47	kaeza	ah
17:48	tenplus1	if the engine checks the node and issues damaage it'll know the name to pass as cuase
17:48	rubenwardy	you could put the most damaging node I guess
17:48	tenplus1	I may get an AMD processor next time around, they seem to have less issues than intel right now
17:48	kaeza	anything works
17:48	rubenwardy	I thought about this, but decided that   player:get_pos() was close enough
17:48	kaeza	the idea is being able to distinguish between e.g. acid/lava/etc
17:49	kaeza	well, true
17:49	rubenwardy	true
17:49	tenplus1	is this for that pull request, or a mod in general ?
17:49	rubenwardy	hmmm
17:49	rubenwardy	it makes for a nicer API, so I'll look into it
17:50	Megaf	tenplus1, my CPU beats your, http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Atom-D525-vs-AMD-E1-6010
17:50	kaeza	override_node("air", { damage_per_second=1 })
17:50	Megaf	clearly Intel paid for 3D mark to win tho
17:50	tenplus1	lol, but I have nvidia ion v2 gfx... muhahahaha
17:51	rubenwardy	kaeza, this is the code btw: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/blob/3df2a75315ff4c6f205133d39364de237d34a796/src/content_sao.cpp#L952
17:51		DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
17:51	rubenwardy	it's not even a for loop, which would be nice
17:51	tenplus1	hi DS
17:52	DS-minetest	hi
17:52	Megaf	tenplus1, both of our CPUs suck
17:52	tenplus1	ehehe but they work
17:52	Megaf	srifqi, what CPU do you have?
17:52	kaeza	uh, it also doesn't respect player collision box? (was that added?)
17:53	Megaf	N2840
17:53	srifqi	Megaf, Intel
17:53	rubenwardy	kaeza, doesn't seem like it does
17:53	Megaf	srifqi, you have an Intel Celeron N2840 at 2.16 GHz
17:53	kaeza	>v3s16 p3 = floatToInt(m_base_position + v3f(0, BS*1.6, 0), BS);
17:53	Megaf	running windows 10 Home
17:53	srifqi	Megaf, srifqi Intel
17:53	kaeza	nope, hardcoded 1.6
17:54	srifqi	^^ sorry, wrong message.
17:54	Megaf	It's a Bay Trail, not Skylake =/
17:54	tenplus1	bay trail running win10... do you notice any freezes or lock ups ?
17:55	* rubenwardy	has an i5 @ 2.6GHz  5200U
17:56	Megaf	rubenwardy, that's a Broadwell
17:56	rubenwardy	yeah
17:57	Megaf	I wonder if my build would run on Broadwell and Bay Trails
17:57	Megaf	Almost sure it wouldn't on an Atom
17:57	* tenplus1	chooses processors based on 65watts or below system use
17:59	srifqi	Skylake has 12 cores? o_0
17:59	Megaf	some, maybe
18:00	srifqi	"make -j12" .-.
18:00	Megaf	22, becuase 22 threads
18:00	tenplus1	'd love to try one of the ARM boards
18:00		lisac joined #minetest-hub
18:00	tenplus1	hi lisac
18:01		Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
18:01	lisac	hey ten
18:01	Megaf	I want to try this puppy http://products.amd.com/en-us/search/CPU/AMD-Ryzen%E2%84%A2/AMD-Ryzen%E2%84%A2-Threadripper/AMD-Ryzen%E2%84%A2-Threadripper-1950X/177
18:02	Megaf	16 cores, 32 threads, up to 4 GHz
18:02	tenplus1	ooh I've seen the youtube videos on that one... amazing specs... even Alienware has a gaming rigg using it
18:02	tenplus1	kicks intel core i9's outta the water
18:03	Megaf	4 memory channels man
18:03	Megaf	it's Athlon 64 vs Pentium 4 all over again
18:03	Megaf	Intel stuck in time with overpriced product and AMD inovating
18:04	tenplus1	that's the problem, intel ask too much for the cpu's instead of setting a good price and relying more on bulk sales
18:05	* DS-minetest	has a Pentium 4 Intel with 3.2 GHz
18:05	rdococ	ugh
18:05	rdococ	why internet, why
18:05	rubenwardy	> £741
18:06	rdococ	why intel why
18:06	tenplus1	lol
18:06	srifqi	DS-minetest, how could? My computer uses Pentium 4 but not reaching 3 GHz.
18:07	DS-minetest	umm, idk
18:07	srifqi	overclocking? (o_O)
18:08	DS-minetest	Family, model, stepping is 15, 6, 4
18:08	Megaf	DS-minetest, does Minetest runs well there?
18:09	Megaf	are you running windows?
18:09	DS-minetest	no, linux
18:09	Megaf	I can make a build of Minetest for your CPU,
18:09	DS-minetest	i can
18:09	DS-minetest	but it takes long…
18:10	Megaf	what distro do you use?
18:10	DS-minetest	lubuntu zesty
18:10	tenplus1	nice
18:13	srifqi	lol, same as mine, lubuntu, too. But one RAM died, so only one 256 MB RAM. It still can run.
18:13	tenplus1	that's a little light on resources
18:13	srifqi	It even can still play games. .-. But not 3D, because of the video driver.
18:14	paramat	remember don't let this offtopic go on too long please, there is a channel for long offtopic discussions
18:14	srifqi	3D games play so laggy.
18:14	srifqi	Which channel?
18:16	Megaf	#Minetest-Chat and #Minetest-OffTopic
18:16	Megaf	both dead
18:16	Megaf	I prefer #Minetest-Chat because it was created by me
18:16	Megaf	paramat, man, hub is offtopic
18:17	Megaf	paramat, official is #Minetest ///
18:19	Megaf	well, I said, both channel dead
18:19	Megaf	because people off topic here,
18:19	Megaf	because official is #Minetest
18:19	Megaf	IMHO
18:19	DS-minetest	i think, this may be my processor: https://ark.intel.com/products/27501/Intel-Pentium-4-Processor-supporting-HT-Technology-3_20-GHz-512K-Cache-800-MHz-FSB
18:20	tenplus1	not bad
18:20	Megaf	and you are on 32 bit :S
18:23	tenplus1	https://www.aliexpress.com/item/UK-Raspberry-Pi-3-Model-B-Game-Kit-2-Game-Controller-32G-SD-Card-Case-3A/32826692571.html
18:24	Megaf	we are talking about Raspberry Pi at #RaspberryPi Yes, really!
18:25	paramat	hub isn't an offtopic channel, restrained offtopic is allowed though. #minetest is for chit-chat, offtopic and mindless spamming
18:25	paramat	hub rules http://hub.minetest.net/info
18:26	paramat	we're very lenient about offtopic though, but the amount has become a problem recently
18:26	tenplus1	it opens the room to ideas and eventually ideas about minetest :)
18:28	paramat	doughnut talk is allowed here
18:29	tenplus1	I would bloody well hope so :P
18:29	paramat	nah, long computer-geek conversations should not be here
18:30	* Megaf	could /ban paramat and everyone who doesnt like this channel the way it is
18:31	* Megaf	hides
18:31	RoaryTiger	I'm safe now
18:32	kaeza	potato
18:32		srifqi joined #minetest-hub
18:33	paramat	important dev information is often posted here so huge amounts of casual offtopic is a problem when reading logs, the reason #minetest is for chit-chat is so we don't waste 10mins a day scrolling through offtopic when scanning logs for important information
18:34	Krock	how about not posting important information here?
18:34	Krock	for something we have -dev
18:35	rubenwardy	I read the logs as there are sometimes interesting suggestions in here
18:35	rubenwardy	and mentions project
18:35	rubenwardy	*of projects
18:35	paramat	importantly though, it's a request for relaxed discussion with a little restraint, instead of no restraint, we're not strict here
18:38	kaeza	chat suddenly died
18:39	Krock	until kaeza appeared to revive it
18:39	kaeza	it's a zombie now?
18:39	Krock	well, technically.. nah.
18:40	paramat	Krock important MT discussion that is not strictly dev happens here a lot. it makes no sense to suggest MT talk should move out of this channel instead of suggesting offtopic is restrained
18:41	paramat	but please don't get all uptight, relax, just please have a little restraint
18:41	tenplus1	the whole point of -hub is a laid back channel where ideas form among normal talk
18:42	paramat	tenplus it's focus is MT
18:42	paramat	see info page
18:42	tenplus1	o.O
18:43	Krock	that's not exactly what I meant. If there's important dev information to share, then is the dev channel definitely a better option. However, it may be a parallel discussion - with the difference that we've got more player feedbacks here
18:43	DS-minetest	hm, it looks like overriding nodes after load destroys the ability to connect with connected nodeboxes
18:43	tenplus1	the room does what it says on the tin
18:43	paramat	"Please keep offtopic discussions short (under 50 lines)." we don't even enforce that, it's just to stop excessive offtopic
18:44	Krock	DS-minetest, overriding nodes after loading is not intended and won't work in almost all cases
18:45	DS-minetest	is rawsetting something in minetest.registered_nodes after load bad?
18:45	paramat	important MT discussion can often be unsuitable for dev channel, and some find that channel too strict
18:46	DS-minetest	rawsetting a custom field
18:47	Krock	DS-minetest, it won't be synced with the core anymore. Changing the drawtype, for example, won't do anything. But you can still override Lua functions or groups, that aren't used by the client
18:47	DS-minetest	ah, thanks
18:47	Krock	!next
18:47	ShadowBot	Another satisfied customer. Next!
18:55	paramat	it's possible to be relaxed but also have a little restraint, i don't know why people find that difficult. i talk offtopic here too but always feel i should not go on too long :]
19:00		kaeza left #minetest-hub
19:02	rubenwardy	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=18434
19:02	rubenwardy	"Can I use a part of my github pages domain to host [a Minetest server]?"
19:02	rubenwardy	-.-
19:03	KaadmY	Wat no
19:04	rubenwardy	well, Minetest's protocol sucks
19:04	rubenwardy	we should have gone with a TCP one
19:04	rubenwardy	even better, HTTP
19:04	rubenwardy	then you could use github pages to host a server
19:04	IhrFussel	People who don't even understand how setting up a server works shouldn't even attempt it IMO
19:04	rubenwardy	^
19:04	rubenwardy	well, meh
19:05	rubenwardy	it's good for anyone to be able to make a server
19:05	rubenwardy	but the sorts that don't understand/don't bother to won't make very stable or long term ones
19:05	IhrFussel	If his idea would work most people would've exploited it by now
19:07	IhrFussel	rubenwardy, inexperienced people only harm themselves when they set up a public server
19:07	tenplus1	many players want a server to be admin, in control... and they they make one and figure out it's a lot harder than it looks
19:16	tenplus1	nite folks
19:16		tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
19:25	RoaryTiger	My built of Minetest 0.4.17 for Skylake CPUs if you want to test. https://github.com/Megaf/Minetest-Light/releases/tag/0.4.17
19:25	Megaf	It's the very same code of Minetest, nothing was changed at all
19:25	rubenwardy	nice
19:25	rubenwardy	> tag 0.4.17
19:27	Megaf	I am very interested in knowing if it runs at all in any non Skylake CPU
19:27	Megaf	and how well it runs comparing to lets say, sfan5's build
19:27	rubenwardy	are there any objects to using stable-0.4 as a 0.4.17-dev branch?
19:28	rubenwardy	it'll have bug fixes backported, and no new features
19:28	rubenwardy	the alternative is dev-0.4
19:28	rubenwardy	which I prefer, but nerzhul is against
19:28	Megaf	I have no idea why my build is 0.4.17 actually
19:28	sfan5	Megaf: depends on whether gcc decided to use skylake-exclusive features, also it probably runs similarily as all the libraries are still compiled for "generic"
19:28	sfan5	rubenwardy: what kind of development is there to do for 0.4.17?
19:28	Megaf	This is sfan's build by the way http://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/win64/minetest-0.4.16-win64.7z
19:29	rubenwardy	back porting bug fixes
19:29	rubenwardy	traditionally stable-0.4 has pointed to the last 0.4 release
19:29	Megaf	sfan5, my next step if this build runs is rebuilding the libs too
19:29		lisac joined #minetest-hub
19:29	rubenwardy	tbh, I don't mind it being used for 0.4.17-dev that much
19:29	Megaf	at least irrlicht
19:29	Megaf	lua is already built for Skylake
19:30	sfan5	rubenwardy: well those can be collected in a list, backported at once and then pushed
19:30	sfan5	you don't use luajit, Megaf?
19:30	rubenwardy	sfan5, stable-0.4 is already broken btw
19:30	sfan5	i know
19:31	rubenwardy	so should we revert the bump to 0.4.17 or fix it so it says 0.4.17-dev?
19:31	rubenwardy	and if it's reverted, should there be a dev-0.4
19:31	sfan5	idk keep it
19:32	rubenwardy	ok, I'll just fix it then as it'll be less controversial
19:32	Krock	just set the DEVELOPMENT_BUILD variable to true?
19:32	rubenwardy	yup
19:34	Calinou	Megaf: I have a Skylake CPU, so I could run that build :D
19:34	Megaf	sfan5, Not in this build, since I wanted Lua to be compiled for Skylake too
19:34	Megaf	and test the normal Lua
19:34	Megaf	Calinou, so please :)
19:35	Megaf	It has no LevelDB, LuaJIT nor Gettext by the way
19:36	Calinou	also, my mother is finally going to use a "new" PC starting from tomorrow
19:36	Calinou	my blood pressure will lower a lot while I have to perform maintenance tasks on it
19:36	Calinou	she's going from a low-end dual-core AMD CPU from 2010 or so, 4 GB of RAM, a GeForce 9200 GT and a very noisy PC
19:37	Calinou	to an i7-2600K, 8 GB of RAM, a 256 GB Samsung 840 PRO SSD, a very quiet PC
19:37	Calinou	there's no dedicated GPU, but the IGP is enough to drive a 1920×1080 desktop (she only does office work/web browsing)
19:37	Calinou	also, Windows 7 to Windows 10 :P
19:37	Calinou	my dad is going to switch PCs soon, too
19:37	Calinou	(he's on a 2008 iMac right now, it's extremely slow)
19:38	Megaf	Calinou, That's great news
19:38	Megaf	now test my build, will ya?
19:40	Calinou	it works :)
19:40	Calinou	created a world
19:41	Megaf	Oh my
19:42	Megaf	Calinou, any difference in FPS compared to other builds?
19:43	Calinou	is it a MSVC or MinGW build?
19:43	rubenwardy	rdococ, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/41b7823057bdaddd760f932dce802719301c3a0f
19:44	Calinou	Megaf: I think it performs the same
19:44	Calinou	as the official 0.4.16 build I have
19:44	Megaf	Calinou, MinGW
19:45	nerzhul	rubenwardy, i'm okay for backporting fixed to stable-0.4, just open PR
19:46		behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
19:54	Calinou	https://media.hugo.pro/2017-09-09_21-52-37.mp4
19:55	Calinou	player movement on my server, with 15 Hz server step
19:55	Calinou	looks quite good, although I wish we had yaw interpolation, and a way to display pitch :(
19:57	Megaf	Calinou, define 15Hz server step
19:57	Krock	1/15s
19:57	Calinou	`dedicated_server_step = 0.0667` in minetest.conf
19:57	Megaf	ah
19:57	Megaf	my server was 0.05 for around 3 years
19:57	Krock	tried 0.01 yet?
19:57	Megaf	and at times I used 0.02
19:58	Calinou	ah, yeah, I remember a guy running 0.02
19:58	Megaf	just in the last 10 monts I put in 0.1 because a bug in bees mod
19:58	Calinou	it wasn't you, though
19:58	Calinou	Krock: heh
19:58	sfan5	tfw minetest servers have less "ticks" than cs demos
19:58	Calinou	Megaf: I can try 0.05
19:58	Calinou	sfan5: even Minecraft has 20 Hz :(
19:58	Calinou	id Tech 3 games usually are 20 Hz
19:58	Calinou	although Quake Live and Unvanquished are 40 Hz
19:58	Megaf	and at the time I didnt know 1/5 I know today a bout optimizng things
19:58	Calinou	(40 Hz should be a sane default for modern games)
19:58	Calinou	(or 30 Hz, in the worst case, eg. Xonotic)
19:59	sfan5	but muh 128 tick
19:59	sfan5	what does cube 2 have tho?
19:59	Calinou	25 Hz, IIRC
20:00	Calinou	hmm, I'll try 30 Hz on Minetest just for fun
20:00	Calinou	I don't run mob mods anyway
20:02	Megaf	ok, my server is not runnign with 0.02
20:02	Calinou	30 Hz looks awesome, however player movement isn't very "immediate" due to the SmoothTranslator
20:02	Calinou	which is too slow for 30 Hz
20:02	Calinou	(it's hardcoded, so you need to recompile your client to change it)
20:05	sfan5	couldn't it be made a setting?
20:06	Calinou	it could be :)
20:06	Calinou	I can send a PR if you want
20:06	Calinou	my server holds up well with 30 Hz, but I only tested with 2 players :P
20:23	IhrFussel	My server runs at 5 Hz and it's enough...most humans can't react in under 200 ms
20:24	IhrFussel	I understand why high precision games (like shooters) need more Hz though...Minetest isn't "high precision"
20:27	Calinou	>most humans can't react in under 200 ms
20:28	Calinou	they very much can
20:28	Calinou	try using a 2nd client (put two windows side-by-side) and move one of the clients around
20:28	Calinou	you will easily notice the difference between 5 and 10 Hz
20:28	Calinou	or even 10 Hz and 20 Hz
20:28	Calinou	or sometimes 20 Hz and 30 Hz
20:28	Calinou	also, PvP requires accuracy :P
20:31	rdococ	hi
20:34	Calinou	nice: https://kryptxy.github.io/torrench/
20:39	IhrFussel	Calinou, PvP in minetest is a joke and no most humans cannot react in under 200 ms...I'm talking about reaction time when you press a button for example
20:40	rubenwardy	Calinou, installed
20:40	Calinou	IhrFussel: Minetest CTF :P
20:40	rubenwardy	IhrFussel, human reaction time is 10MS, iirc
20:41	sfan5	> most humans cannot react in under 200 ms
20:41	sfan5	nice meme
20:41	rubenwardy	oh wait no
20:41	rubenwardy	"The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus."
20:41	rubenwardy	he's right
20:42	Calinou	latency should be decreased as much as possible, really
20:42	rubenwardy	well, the unreliable first result says he is
20:42	Calinou	and increasing player update rate decreases the perceived latency
20:42	rubenwardy	but you will be able to notice finer details
20:42		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
20:42		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
20:44	IhrFussel	"Humans see an image in just 13 milliseconds." << seeing an image doesn't allow to react to it right away
20:46	IhrFussel	I played a reaction game on my phone and I NEVER got below 250 ms ... there may be humans who react a little faster but those aren't the average joe
20:47	sfan5	you only have average people playing on your servers?
20:47	rubenwardy	basically everyone is average
20:47	IhrFussel	When I'm at a traffic light and it turns green nobody is able to walk right away
20:47	Calinou	I can :P
20:48	rubenwardy	I can
20:48	rubenwardy	because the lights go amber first
20:48	Calinou	lucky you :D
20:48	Calinou	oh, people might be interested by this, by the way: https://github.com/mcollina/autocannon
20:48	Calinou	it's a web load testing tool, using Node.js
20:48	Calinou	it works on Windows natively, unlike wrk
20:48	Calinou	seems to work quite well, even installed on my VPS
20:51	IhrFussel	Test your reaction here https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
20:52	lisac	rubenwardy, I found... a thing: http://www.minehacker.org/
20:53	rubenwardy	old news
20:54	sfan5	IhrFussel: my average is 248ms what now?
20:54	lisac	new news for me
20:54	lisac	hey fuck that guy
20:54	Krock	269 average
20:57	IhrFussel	254 see... so the 0.25 s is correct
20:58	sfan5	are you serious
21:01	IhrFussel	Yes I wanted to prove that you "cannot" react much faster than 200 ms ... so the only reason why shooters need higher Hz is because otherwise shots may miss on one screen while they hit on another
21:02	sfan5	you can't prove anything with a sample size of 1
21:02	Calinou	https://www.humanbenchmark.com/users/32135350
21:02	Calinou	hmm, I'm not that good
21:02	Calinou	67% percentile
21:03	Calinou	hey, the number in milliseconds is a power of 2, at least :D
21:03	IhrFussel	Of course you can prove something if several people confirm it
21:04	sfan5	how much is several?
21:05	IhrFussel	Quora posts, Wikipedia, other forum posts/articles + you guys who did the test
21:05	sfan5	well you should have said so from the beginning
21:06	IhrFussel	But doesn't matter now, MT simply doesn't *need* < 0.1 s ticks
21:06	Calinou	not bad, I did the number memory test
21:06	Calinou	13 digits, 94% percentile
21:06	Calinou	IhrFussel: any game does
21:06	Calinou	player movement, even in slower games, looks just horrible in 10 Hz
21:06	Calinou	play Quake 2 and you'll see why
21:06	Calinou	it also means the perceived latency of most actions will increase
21:09	Calinou	Verbal Memory, 101 points (96% percentile) :D
21:11	Calinou	and the last one, Visual Memory, 21016 points (79% percentile), although I kind of rushed it
21:12	Calinou	redid reaction test, 238 ms (80%)
21:12	Calinou	not sure how to get lower… I put the window on my TN monitor (which has lower input lag)
21:12	Calinou	but still, it's not that good :P
21:22		Megaf joined #minetest-hub
21:22		Megaf joined #minetest-hub
21:29		DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
21:30		Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
21:31	Megaf_	Calinou, sfan5, a friend just tried to run my build but her computer complained about this missing dlls, libwinthread-1.dll, ibwinpthread-1, libgcc_s_seh-1.dll, libstdc++-6.dll
21:31	sfan5	you need to copy those from the toolchain folder
21:32	Calinou	I have a MSYS2 installation already, that's probably why it worked out of the box on my PC
21:32	Calinou	and it's in my PATH :P
21:32	Calinou	Megaf_: http://www.msys2.org/ + http://styrene.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ = ♥
21:32	Calinou	I used it for building my Sauerbraten mod, it works just fine (with copying DLLs manually, not using the generated installer)
21:32	Calinou	in 64-bit :)
21:33	Megaf_	but but but
21:33	Megaf_	I dont use windows
21:33	IhrFussel	Is there any other server that displays the nametag as green while healing and red while taking damage + remaining HP?
21:34	Calinou	Megaf_: if you want to perform proper Windows testing and distribution, you gotta run Windows at some point :P
21:34	Calinou	IhrFussel: that would be nice
21:34	Calinou	there's the "gauges" mod for displaying other player health/breath (only visible at close distances)
21:35	Megaf	Calinou, negative, I get my users addicted to my software then force then to use Linux
21:36	Megaf_	and Im joking
21:36	IhrFussel	Calinou, I already implemented that on my server + custom HP system ... I was just curious if my server was unique with that feature
21:38	Calinou	IhrFussel: mind putting the mod on GitHub? :)
21:48	IhrFussel	The mods I code aren't standalone, they depend on each other in a big "network"
22:03	Calinou	aw :(
22:11		Jordach joined #minetest-hub
22:41	rubenwardy	> The mods I code aren't standalone, they depend on each other in a big "network"
22:41	rubenwardy	sounds like spaghetti
22:51		paramat joined #minetest-hub
22:54	paramat	erm, reaction time to a visual stimulus is irrelevant to server step as step affects so many aspects. but if it helps your potato that's ok :]
22:56	* rdococ	eats some spaghetti code
22:56	Calinou	yeah, exactly
22:56	Calinou	I'm not sure if my server would hold 20 players in 30 Hz though :P
22:56	Calinou	15 Hz, probably
22:56	Calinou	but 30 Hz looks so smooth… :o
22:57	Calinou	this is a VPS, not a dedicated server, but still
22:57	rdococ	lol
23:05	Fixer	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12573981
23:05	rdococ	one day, someone should create a chaotic Minetest server named "Discord", to throw people off :P
23:09	Fixer	*,...,*
23:10	Fixer	Calinou: nice, I'm not alone on msys2/mingw64
23:12	Calinou	rdococ: would it have memes at spawn?
23:13	Fixer	EVERYBODY MOVE YOUR BODY_
23:13	rubenwardy	argh
23:14	rubenwardy	advtrains is buggy
23:14	Fixer	rubenwardy: breaking
23:14	rubenwardy	he also includes the release.zip in the git repo
23:16	Fixer	[rare] My original and final just test (0.4.12) inventory: https://i.imgur.com/MZj82bd.png
23:20	Fixer	U P D A T I N G  M I N E T E S T
23:22	Calinou	P
23:22	Calinou	D
23:22	Calinou	A
23:22	Calinou	…okay, let's stop here
23:26	Fixer	Calinou: DELL
23:26	rdococ	U P D A T I N G
23:27	Fixer	my PDA is older than octacian *probably
23:28	rubenwardy	man, advtrains has messy code
23:28	Fixer	Calinou: F E E L  I T https://i.imgur.com/kJvxA1D.png
23:28	rubenwardy	so many publicly defined variabes
23:28	rubenwardy	also, some variable names: str, stra, t, a, return1, return2, return3
23:29	Fixer	rubenwardy: fuckyou1, fuckyou2, fuckyou3, variable1, variable2, cat1, cat2
23:30	Fixer	Calinou: can you feel it? https://i.imgur.com/TvkchIM.png
23:30	Megaf_	my next build will be built with -O2 -mfpmath=both -march=nocona -mtune=generic
23:30	Fixer	notice cleaned up spawn by TNT, TNT easily destroy chests, but this seems to be a bug that was fixed few days ago o_O
23:31	Megaf_	this should make it compatible with any cpu newer than any 64 bit intel and amd cpus
23:31	Calinou	Fixer: "What will Minetest look like in 10 years from now?"
23:31	Calinou	;)
23:31	Megaf_	and should produce a pretty stable code
23:31	Fixer	Calinou: I'M LIVING IN 3017
23:31	Fixer	Megaf_: have you benchmarked it?
23:31	Megaf_	I dont have windows
23:33	Fixer	Calinou: notice my tall building is right in center behind this protector tower, i miracoulously found a spot for just 1 protector right near spawn
23:33	Fixer	and grew to a big house
23:33	Megaf_	This builds Im building are for windows only Fixer
23:34	Fixer	I even had tree farm on top of the house
23:34	Fixer	also, living at spawn on jt is actually annoying
23:34	Fixer	because of those noclip assholes
23:36	Megaf_	and I dont have windows computer
23:37	Calinou	Personal Computer = PC, Windows Computer = WC
23:37	Calinou	:D
23:37	Fixer	Calinou: i hate protectors tbh... not mod itself, but hanging blocks everywhere... When I did heavy WE test on GC64 build, just removing protectors makes a big diff
23:37	Fixer	Calinou: true
23:37	Calinou	Fixer: yeah, I much prefer areas
23:37	Calinou	most Minecraft protection mods use an areas-like system
23:37	Calinou	and players tend to prefer them
23:37	Fixer	yeah
23:37	Fixer	golden shovel
23:37	Calinou	(an exception is PreciousStones, where gold blocks protect a 25×25×25 area)
23:38	Fixer	or towny
23:38	Fixer	i'm playing on beta 1.7.3 mp server with towny
23:38	Fixer	that is V I N T A G E
23:38	Fixer	towny is quite amazing for its time
23:38	Fixer	2011 version
23:38	Fixer	or little addons like /top is very handy
23:39	Calinou	I know a server with a Beta 1.6 map
23:39	Calinou	still online today
23:39	Fixer	mt does not have this
23:39	Megaf_	I need a nice lightweight OpenSource IDE....
23:39	Calinou	I took screenshots last week
23:39	Fixer	Calinou: there is Alpha server online
23:39	Megaf_	with git integration
23:39	Calinou	it still has my house (but it has been "overridden" with roads, so I can't enter it anymore)
23:39	Calinou	it still has the pixel arts I remember from August 2011
23:39	Calinou	Megaf_: not sure if that exists :/
23:39	Fixer	Calinou: what is the name of it?
23:39	Calinou	Geany doesn't have Git integration, IIRC
23:39	Calinou	Fixer: it's a private server
23:39	Fixer	ok
23:39	Calinou	if you're interested anyway, ##shadowempire
23:39	Fixer	i don't know this one
23:40	Calinou	note, nobody really plays on it anymore :P
23:40	Fixer	I prefer beta 1.7.3, it has some similarities to MT, very simple, people play on it, yes
23:40	Megaf_	geany-plugin-git-changebar - git change bar plugin for Geany
23:41	Megaf_	apt install geany geany-plugin-addons geany-plugin-ctags geany-plugin-debugger geany-plugin-devhelp geany-plugin-doc geany-plugin-git-changebar geany-plugin-lua geany-plugin-markdown geany-plugins
23:41	Megaf_	this should give me a nice GEany
23:44	Calinou	https://media.hugo.pro/2017-09-10_01-42-29.gif
23:44	Calinou	this is what my Logitech G710+ keyboard registers when I put my entire arm on it :P
23:44	Calinou	(http://www.gigahype.com/nkey-rollover-test-page/)
23:45	Megaf_	lol
23:45	Megaf_	its fake, because its USB
23:45	Calinou	it supports partial key rollover, as you can see
23:45	Calinou	it's USB, but it's not too bad
23:45	Calinou	you can crouch-move diagonally, for example
23:45	Calinou	which isn't possible with low-end USB keyboards
23:46	Calinou	and it's good enough by far, in practice :P
23:46	Megaf_	yep
23:46	Megaf_	more than good enough
23:47	Megaf_	by the way, is NetBeans and Eclipse still active?
23:47	Calinou	not really (iIRC)
23:47	rubenwardy	jesus
23:47	rubenwardy	so many global variables
23:47	Fixer	WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?
23:48	Megaf_	hm, I could use XCode...
23:48	Calinou	just did a "casual" typing test
23:48	Calinou	https://img.10fastfingers.com/speedtests/generate_screenshot_result/1_125_638_624_14_93_3_1
23:48	Calinou	3 wrong words :'(
23:48	Calinou	but still, not a bad result :)
23:49	rubenwardy	I use either Atom or a form of IntelliJ (Android Studio, CLion, IntelliJ ultimate)
23:49	Megaf_	Calinou, man, I'm quite happy with my 8 Euro keyboard from Argos
23:49	rubenwardy	the latter isn't FOSS though
23:49	* Megaf_	clicks https://www.tecmint.com/best-linux-ide-editors-source-code-editors/
23:49	Calinou	I should be at the 7th of the daily top 20 of the advanced typing test, soon :)
23:49	Calinou	7th place*
23:50	Megaf_	I kinda want to try NetBeans again after maybe 10 years without using it
23:50	Calinou	I used NetBeans back in 2011
23:50	Calinou	it was ok, but not great, but I didn't know much about tooling back then
23:50	Calinou	(I was 13 :P)
23:51	Megaf_	Calinou, you 19 now?
23:52	Megaf_	My fingers told me you are 19
23:53	red-001	that might be the strangest expression I heard in a while
23:53	Megaf_	oh, hey red-001
23:53	Megaf_	I have to agree on that one

← Previous day | Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | Next day → | Google Search | Plaintext

Powered by ilbot.