Time  Nick         Message
00:00 octacian     How hard would be be to add a simple GUI to specify a specific file name, out of curiosity?
00:00 rubenwardy   it's a python program which accepts a file name like this:      rubenimageuploader <filename>
00:00 rubenwardy   just like any other program that can open files
00:01 rubenwardy   I guess with a simple tkinter script you could do it
00:01 rubenwardy   open it if no filename is provided
00:01 octacian     Yeah.
00:01 octacian     What is tkinter?
00:01 rubenwardy   I don't need it though
00:01 octacian     Like wxWidgets?
00:01 rubenwardy   it's a GUI library for Python
00:01 rubenwardy   it sucks, but it's part of the standard library
00:01 octacian     Cross platform?
00:02 rubenwardy   yes
00:02 octacian     huh, What would you use for cross-platform GUI development?
00:02 rubenwardy   qt/gtk probably
00:02 octacian     I'm dumping Electron, was planning on using Python + wxWidgets as an alternative for cross-platform
00:03 KaadmY       LOL, seems legit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeTjR5-IabY
00:03 rubenwardy   wxWidgets would be better than tkinter
00:03 rubenwardy   especiall
00:04 rubenwardy   especially if you're familiar
00:05 octacian     Not at all familiar with either wxWidgets or Python ATM
00:05 octacian     Just seems to be the best choice, considering the simplicity of Python as a language
00:05 lisac        hey maybe there could be a clientmod which auto uploads screenshots?
00:06 octacian     I thought about that, but no auto-upload API
00:06 rubenwardy   kinda out of spec
00:06 rubenwardy   sort of thing an outside program should do
00:06 rubenwardy   like, on a global keyboard co-ordinate
00:07 rubenwardy   holy shezz
00:07 rubenwardy   never before have a seen a project with 3 space indentation
00:07 rubenwardy   *have I
00:08 lisac        rubenwardy, what about 4 tabs?
00:08 Raven262     lisac, don't even think of sending him link to my code.
00:08 lisac        :P
00:08 lisac        you aren't using 4 tabs, Raven262. Sometimes you are using 1 space, sometimes 2 tabs
00:08 lisac        sometimes 6 spaces
00:09 rubenwardy   spaces = math.random() * 10
00:09 Raven262     Just to clarify that it was atom's, error not mine.
00:09 rubenwardy   turn on invisibles
00:09 Raven262     *insert the "," in the other place
00:09 rubenwardy   helps a lot
00:09 Raven262     i know
00:09 * rubenwardy uses Atom
00:09 Raven262     i just freshly installed it
00:09 Raven262     i didn't configure a thing yet
00:10 Raven262     And i opened a file in wordpad, which messed it up pretty badly.
00:11 lisac        hey Raven262 why don't use use MS Word for editing lua code?
00:12 Raven262     use use?
00:12 lisac        hey
00:12 lisac        I should go sleep
00:12 paramat      octacian "0-127 and add 128 if force place is the proper way" correct
00:12 octacian     paramat: Yup, got the schematic mod working entirely
00:12 octacian     Still needs a README, but no time right now
00:12 paramat      but better for consistency that you ask the mod user to enter 0-255, then divide that by 2 to get 0-127
00:13 octacian     hmm, Will consider updating to do that later, although I'm not too worried
00:13 octacian     Just implementing a jungle biome for Eden, with my new Lupuna trees created with the schematic creator :D
00:13 * octacian   is gonna copy-paste noise params and such from MTG
00:13 octacian     Still don't quite understand them xD
00:16 Raven262     I used the default values for those.
00:16 Raven262     for my mod that is
00:16 Raven262     i tried to understand which one does what
00:16 Raven262     it was a waste of time
00:16 Raven262     now i only use sidelen and fill_ration values
00:17 Raven262     *fill_ratio
00:17 Raven262     sidelen = 8,
00:17 Raven262     fill_ratio = 0.00005 <-- This makes stuff spawn rarely i think
00:17 octacian     Raven262: That's what I'm using for registering decorations
00:17 octacian     using a fill ratio of 0.01 for my oak trees, works nicely
00:18 Raven262     well
00:18 Raven262     0.00005 is really rare then
00:18 Raven262     but well, those are some rare stuff that i need generated
00:18 Raven262     I hope that i'll release the mod tomorrow
00:19 octacian     paramat: Is it possible to cause mountains to be lower or higher through biomes?
00:19 KaadmY       octacian: don't think so
00:19 paramat      not with biomes, biomes are applied after terrain generation and don't affect terrain shape at all
00:19 KaadmY       Since the biomes are based on terrain height
00:20 octacian     Got it.
00:20 octacian     I really wish there was a way to create a biome that was either more flat or had taller mountains
00:20 paramat      you'd need to edit noise params
00:20 octacian     Would really make things much nicer
00:20 KaadmY       Yeah
00:20 paramat      hmmmm almost started something like that a few times
00:20 lisac        bye comrades
00:21 paramat      more MC-like where each biome affects the landscape
00:21 KaadmY       It'd be nice to have each biome have `flatten_ratio` and `flatten_height` to blend terrain towards that Y height
00:21 octacian     Yeah.
00:21 octacian     paramat: Is there a chance of seeing something like that?
00:30 Sokomine     KaadmY: sorry, no. but it's part of adventuretest as can be found on brandons github site. the most current changes to adventuretest might not be there; the screen blanking is
00:32 KaadmY       Sokomine: I figure out my problem already, but thanks anyway :P
00:33 KaadmY       For fullscreen HUD elements, you need `scale = {x = -100, y = -100}`, whereas I was doing `scale = -100`
00:33 Sokomine     octacian: how are you handling the probabilities? how will the user input them?
00:34 octacian     Sokomine: Via a formspec. User inputs the itemstack they want to change probability for, and can modify it there
00:35 paramat      octacian there's always a chance but i have no interest in coding that. having biomes affect terrain is possible if everything is self-contained in a new mapgen
00:35 KaadmY       *cough* carpathian *cough*
00:35 octacian     paramat: So, no way to do it directly from Lua, or do I misunderstand?
00:36 KaadmY       Having heightmap+biomemap access in a mapgen function from Lua would be useful
00:36 paramat      but to have such a feature in a universal biome API thing would need a whole new mapgen and biome API system, huge job
00:36 KaadmY       Instead of manually carving terrain with a voxel grid
00:37 paramat      however hmmmm has made it possible to have multiple biome systems, we have just one now which is the non-mgv6 'biome API'
00:38 paramat      octacian you can do anything you want in a lua mod, i'm talking about core code
00:38 octacian     Oh
00:39 paramat      a lua mapgen mod can use the biome map to alter terrain shape, but it would not be as fast and would cause lua lag for other players on a server (the usual problem with lua mapgens)
00:40 Sokomine     hm, yes. mg_villages does that to a degree. it changes the land for the village to flat. the biome (in this case: surface node(s)) is kept where possible
00:40 paramat      you can access the biomemap and heightmap from lua in 'on generated'
00:40 Sokomine     it seems to lag more in recent versions of mt. i havn't been able to pinpoint it
03:10 octacian     Is it possible to hide the selection box on an entity via the entity definition?
03:10 octacian     Also, is it possible to smoothly set the yaw of an entity?
05:22 Hijiri       1) no 2) no
05:23 Hijiri       for 1 you can hide the selection box if you make the collisionbox zero extent
05:23 Hijiri       but I am guessing that's not what you want
07:12 tenplus1     hi folks
07:16 Raven262     Hi ten
07:16 tenplus1     hi raven :P
07:17 Raven262     I got up early today.
07:17 tenplus1     what time is it there ?
07:17 Raven262     its 9 in the morning right now
07:17 Raven262     i got up about 2 hours ago
07:17 tenplus1     not bad :P
07:18 Raven262     well, since i fell asleep somewhere at about 4
07:18 tenplus1     ouch, sleep schedule is handy...  we updated Xanadu earlier, it has all new changes and lucky blocks added now
07:18 Raven262     lol
07:18 Raven262     The screwdrivers too? xD
07:18 tenplus1     yup, and void mirror
07:19 Raven262     xD
07:19 Raven262     Well, i've been working on my new mod this morning, and i seem to be getting an error when trying to support lisac's toolranks.
07:19 Raven262     The descriptions are not updated
07:19 tenplus1     what mod ?
07:20 Raven262     Hey, its a suprise! xD
07:20 tenplus1     ooh :) am eager to hear now... ehehe
07:20 Raven262     not, really, only lisac knows about it
07:20 Raven262     Okay
07:20 Raven262     It adds amber
07:20 Raven262     and amber tools
07:20 Raven262     and stuff
07:20 tenplus1     can we trap mobs inside it :D
07:20 Raven262     Oh, yes
07:20 tenplus1     mwhehehe
07:20 Raven262     That would actually give it some use!
07:21 Raven262     xD
07:21 Raven262     But first, i'm trying to make this thing work.
07:21 tenplus1     good luck :P
07:22 Raven262     Just a question, since i used a table to register item descriptions for lisac's mod's support, how do i make it refresh the description?
07:23 Raven262     I would ask lisac, but hes asleep.
07:23 tenplus1     you gotta edit the tool metadata inside inventory to change descriptions from there on...
07:24 tenplus1     check inside his toolranks to see how that's done :D
07:25 Raven262     he did edit the metadata using the toolranks.new_afteruse
07:25 Raven262     but inside my function create_description, so its only called on registration
07:25 Raven262     i need to call it afterwards
07:26 Raven262     but i don't want to make 4 copies of it
07:26 tenplus1     doesnt toolranks hav a sort of api to register new tools and do it for you ?
07:26 Raven262     i use it
07:26 Raven262     thats it, that function
07:26 Raven262     And it works, just it doesn't refresh
07:27 tenplus1     hrm
07:27 Raven262     Actually...
07:27 Raven262     If i add after_use = after_use?
07:27 Raven262     to each item's def
07:30 Raven262     Quick lua question, how do i make the function return two outputs?
07:31 tenplus1     return a, b     and if you call function you do:    local a, b = my_function(stuff)
07:31 Raven262     okay i got it
07:31 Raven262     and i also got a full screen of toolranks related errors
07:31 Raven262     again, i messed up
07:32 tenplus1     erk
07:32 Raven262     Damn lisac and his hacky ways of solving things
07:32 tenplus1     heh
07:33 tenplus1     would be nice to have a new tool system in engine itself...
07:33 tenplus1     one that works on tool meta instead of registered static data
07:33 tenplus1     hi cwz
07:33 Raven262     i mean really, he made a function that finds tool's type based on the description string
07:33 Raven262     and my description string is created inside the same function where i call his function
07:34 tenplus1     lol
07:34 Raven262     at the end he gets nill
07:34 tenplus1     he needs a nil check
07:34 Raven262     again, i messed up xD
07:35 tenplus1     cant you generate tools 1st before registering with his mod ?
07:35 Raven262     i can, but that gives me 4 times more code in my file
07:35 Raven262     i tried using a function to register descriptions
07:35 tenplus1     sometimes you gotta sacrifice
07:36 Raven262     nah, not this time
07:36 Raven262     this'll work
07:36 Raven262     eventually
07:36 tenplus1     :PP
07:36 Raven262     i need to make the description first, and then call his function.
07:40 Raven262     hehe i know
07:40 Raven262     he'll never see this coming
07:42 tenplus1     :P
07:43 Raven262     string.find(description, "Pickaxe") searches the description, right?
07:43 Raven262     for pickaxe
07:43 Raven262     hell, it searches the DESCRIPTION!
07:43 Raven262     I was wrong there
07:43 Raven262     well, back to work
07:43 tenplus1     hav fun :)
07:43 Raven262     xD
08:25 tenplus1     hi DS
08:28 DS-minetest  hi
08:29 tenplus1     hi DI3HARD139
08:29 DI3HARD139   Hello tenplus1
08:29 DS-minetest  imo the main menu music shouldn't stop at loading beginn
08:30 tenplus1     should keep going until on server ?
08:30 DS-minetest  yes
08:31 tenplus1     would be a nice feature... game loading music :P
08:35 DI3HARD139   :P
08:35 DI3HARD139   Speaking of. Can we add elevator music to the loading screen?
08:35 * tenplus1   still wants mod/xm support
08:35 tenplus1     ehehehehe, "The Girl from Epanema" :)))0
08:36 DI3HARD139   ^
08:52 Raven262     I finally made this thing work.
08:53 Raven262     Though the code is really idiotic.
08:53 tenplus1     w00t!!
08:53 Raven262     but it works!
08:53 Raven262     Really, i used a for loop after the registrations and have overriden the registered tools.
08:54 Raven262     after i quit trying top place lisac's buggy registrations function inside my registration function.
08:54 Raven262     *to
08:54 tenplus1     sounds a lot of hassle...
08:54 Raven262     i'll notify lisac of his bad doings, though.
08:55 tenplus1     if you have your code on git I'd like to see :P
08:55 Raven262     sure, lemme upload the latest one
08:55 tenplus1     hi nrz
08:56 Raven262     https://github.com/theraven262/amber
08:56 Raven262     there
08:56 tenplus1     thx
08:57 Raven262     also, do you know if there is a way to make a string all lowercase?
08:57 Raven262     i could use it to remove one table
08:57 tenplus1     string_name:lower()
08:57 Raven262     ohh
08:57 Raven262     nice
09:01 Raven262     updated
09:02 nerzhul      hi tenplus1
09:02 tenplus1     o/
09:02 nerzhul      i think i found a nice optimization to do client side to improve rendering performance
09:02 nerzhul      i should test the new implemtation this evening
09:02 tenplus1     ooh do tell ?
09:02 tenplus1     any performance increase would be welcome :D
09:03 nerzhul      oh it's the TileSpec problem i search a solution to optimize it and i think i found a mean to reduce the memory copy, but it should test it
09:03 * tenplus1   hopes it works out
09:05 tenplus1     I like the textires raven
09:08 Raven262     Hey, tenplus1, i make bad code, thats why i have to compensate with the textures :P
09:08 tenplus1     ehehe
09:08 Raven262     Thats why lisac and i are a nice development team
09:09 Raven262     we don't know a thing about each other's work
09:09 Raven262     :P
09:09 tenplus1     it just happens :P
09:10 tenplus1     http://academic.emporia.edu/abersusa/geograph.htm
09:13 Darcidride   Hi
09:13 tenplus1     hi Darcidride :P
09:16 nerzhul      i published a PR about optimizing some client rendering parts and mapgen parts, it's a little bit interesting on new map on release mode the map generates a little faster because i dropped a calcul caching it for various operations on VoxelArea
09:16 CWz          tenplus1,  trader npc seems broken
09:17 tenplus1     in mobs redo ?
09:17 CWz          yeah
09:17 CWz          can get the item i traded for
09:18 tenplus1     works here
09:18 CWz          hmm
09:18 tenplus1     drag item you want into selection, price appears, add payment and drag bought items into your inventory
09:18 CWz          i tried that, doesn't let me place it in the inventory
09:18 tenplus1     new dev ?
09:19 tenplus1     or previous build...  am using dev made on 19th... works
09:19 CWz          dev from before the weird beakage
09:19 tenplus1     same...
09:19 tenplus1     very weird... it's working ok myside... lemmie test on network
09:20 tenplus1     yep, workingo n network too... I dont get it
09:20 tenplus1     what other mods you running ?
09:20 CWz          Oh wait, the server uses a stable 0.4.16
09:22 tenplus1     it uses same formspec and inventory checks from 0.4.15+ so should work...  sostrange... waht server ?
09:22 CWz          Banana Land
09:23 tenplus1     connecting now, can you tp me to you when I do
09:25 tenplus1     ehehehe
09:25 CWz          Thanks
09:26 tenplus1     when I get the time I'll try to make it simple like the minecraft trading setup...
09:27 CWz          Could it be that some of the player inventory slots are non responsive
09:28 tenplus1     they shouldnt be... all slots are added and checked in formspec functions... I dont get why it doesnt work at times
09:28 CWz          Lag maybe
09:28 tenplus1     could be... usually messes with things
10:32 tenplus1     wb nrz
11:03 tenplus1     hi lisac
11:04 lisac        hey comrade
11:05 tenplus1     o/
11:06 tenplus1     players on Xanadu seemed quite happy to have new lucky blocks to play with... one didnt know what to do with the super magenta screwdriver but was happy to have it :DDDD
11:16 tenplus1     any rare items are placed in a shop and sold for mundo diamond.gold it seems :D
11:17 tenplus1     hi Jordach
11:17 lisac        tenplus1, of course he is, players are like Ferengi
11:17 lisac        trying to acquire as much as possible
11:17 tenplus1     ehehehe... yeah :D
11:17 tenplus1     the charity chests empty fast, even if they dont need the items it contains
11:18 lisac        lol you could place rules of acquisition instead of server rules next 1st april
11:18 tenplus1     ahaha yeah, that's a good idea....   sad to say but I totally loved Deep Space 9 cause of Quark's bar
11:18 lisac        http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
11:18 lisac        :P
11:19 lisac        hey fellow trekie!
11:19 tenplus1     ehehe, seen 'em all :D
11:19 lisac        same. Twice.
11:19 lisac        have you seen this FOSS game? http://smcameron.github.io/space-nerds-in-space/
11:20 tenplus1     nooo, checking
11:21 rubenwardy   that website made me blind
11:21 tenplus1     yeah, not that well laid out
11:21 rubenwardy   seriously though, you can make a really minimal website look nice
11:22 rubenwardy   margins and contrast
11:22 tenplus1     I loved how the Grand Nagus was the little dude from Princess Bride... oh so funny
11:22 lisac        rubenwardy, it looks like star trek interfaces
11:22 rubenwardy   remove underlines from the navbar
11:22 rubenwardy   also, unrelated: https://i.rubenwardy.com/1BLt4tEz8D.png
11:23 rubenwardy   there's no links
11:24 lisac        rubenwardy, http://imgur.com/eXkWwh1
11:24 rubenwardy   lol
11:24 rubenwardy   the things follow it have them
11:24 Shara        I also get no links
11:24 rubenwardy   I have a custom userContent.css though
11:24 tenplus1     hi shara
11:24 rubenwardy   oh that's good
11:24 rubenwardy   hey Shara
11:25 Shara        I get the links searching for anything else though, it seems
11:25 Shara        Hi rubenwardy :)
11:25 lisac        it works fine for me, too
11:25 lisac        as in, everything
11:25 rubenwardy   what browser are  you using?
11:25 lisac        Firefox
11:25 Shara        Chrome
11:25 rubenwardy   Firefox for me
11:25 Shara        Location based issue then
11:25 lisac        yeah you should all switch to Serbian google :P
11:26 rubenwardy   yeah, we're not that far apart
11:26 Shara        I still don't know any MT related people closer to me :P
11:27 rubenwardy   seems like it's all the www. sites by them too: https://i.rubenwardy.com/8YCLygsqvB.png
11:27 rubenwardy   so, who do people recommend for VPNs?
11:28 Shara        Hmmm
11:28 lisac        https://www.google.rs/
11:28 Shara        Same again
11:28 lisac        dat works
11:28 lisac        :P
11:28 rubenwardy   same again again
11:29 Shara        yea, serbian doesn't fix it for me
11:29 Raven262     стварно?
11:29 lisac        :(
11:29 tenplus1     fix what?
11:29 lisac        tenplus1, can you google 'Private internet access'?
11:30 tenplus1     k, what am I looking for in results
11:30 rubenwardy   also, unrelated: https://i.rubenwardy.com/1BLt4tEz8D.png
11:30 rubenwardy   *related
11:30 rubenwardy   that's the link, tenplus1 ^
11:30 tenplus1     yeah, I see that... it's 1st choice on results
11:31 rubenwardy   so not just a south west thing
11:31 CWz          seems alots of players seemd to join leave
11:31 rubenwardy   Maybe it's a result of our Glorious Leader's internet policies
11:31 rubenwardy   CWz, Android
11:31 tenplus1     lolol
11:32 * tenplus1   runs adblocker, that may help
11:32 Shara        lisac: http://gingercat.tk/4amits/20170725googlepia.png
11:32 rubenwardy   oh, same
11:32 rubenwardy   aaah
11:32 rubenwardy   links display with adblock off
11:32 CWz          how come andriod minetest does that
11:32 Shara        DOesn't matter which country's google I use
11:32 lisac        hmm
11:33 rubenwardy   Shara, adblocking?
11:33 lisac        even google.com works fine here
11:33 Raven262     odd
11:33 Shara        uBlock
11:33 lisac        I've got ublock origin
11:33 rubenwardy   same
11:33 Shara        same as lisac then
11:33 Shara        Hmmm
11:33 rubenwardy   turning it off makes the link appear
11:33 lisac        tis the best adblock
11:33 Raven262     Works without adblock, oddly.
11:34 Shara        actually, the links are there for me on co.uk via FireFox
11:34 lisac        Raven262, got the same issue?
11:34 Raven262     Yep
11:34 lisac        no fucking way
11:34 lisac        we are on same network
11:34 Raven262     But, lisac, we have same systems and same specs.
11:34 lisac        it's a browser issue then.
11:34 Raven262     that^^
11:35 lisac        *its treason then
11:35 lisac        :P
11:35 Shara        I still have AdBlock plus on firefox instead
11:35 tenplus1     ehehe
11:35 * Shara      shrugs
11:35 tenplus1     ooh, adblock is kinda crappy... try uBlock Origins
11:35 * Raven262   tries Edge
11:35 Shara        tenplus1: read further up :P
11:35 Shara        I mostly use chrome, which does have ublock origins
11:35 Shara        Just barely use FireFox, so didn't get round to changing it
11:36 tenplus1     ehe, oops
11:36 Shara        Plus my FireFox has so many otherthings on it that nothing gets through anyway :P
11:36 Raven262     Did you know that you can buy ublock for edge on microsoft store?
11:36 lisac        hey palpatine was actually legally elected supreme chancellor.
11:36 tenplus1     buy ???? how much
11:36 Raven262     Didn't check
11:37 lisac        Jedi had actually betrayed the empire
11:37 lisac        :O Jedi are the evil ones
11:37 Raven262     Err, if you google it, you'll get results in which it says that it is sold.
11:38 Raven262     if you Bing it you get the github link
11:38 Raven262     and free stuff
11:38 tenplus1     *shudder* bing
11:38 Raven262     Google has betrayed me.
11:38 tenplus1     duck duck go is handy
11:38 Raven262     Well, good that i don't use Edge anyways.
11:38 Raven262     Bing even less.
11:38 lisac        when you hear in a movie a character says, 'Lemme bing it', you immediately know it is an ad
11:39 lisac        but when you hear 'Google it' it is completely normal
11:39 tenplus1     hi thomas
11:40 ThomasMonroe hi
11:40 lisac        hey thomas
11:40 ThomasMonroe hi lisac
11:56 tenplus1     o/ fixer
11:56 lisac        greetings comrade Fixer
11:56 Fixer        hi
11:56 Fixer        not a comrade though
12:02 tenplus1     back laters :D
12:16 CWz          is it possible to check if an account has no password using the mod api
13:15 lisac        Fixer, everyone is a comrade
13:19 ThomasMonroe to some extent or another
13:19 lisac        yeah
13:20 lisac        we need a nice communism mod, in which there are no locked chests
13:20 lisac        or shops
13:22 ThomasMonroe thats going to be chaos
13:25 lisac        Not if you allow community to imprison trolls
13:25 lisac        and give the ultimate quest
13:26 lisac        ex. build something
13:26 lisac        you could have community vote on overseers which establish the plans for a building
13:26 lisac        the others do their best to construct it, or make their own communist community, which builds another building
13:27 lisac        you could also add technic to allow players to establish automation
13:27 lisac        ex. build factories and use efficient energy sources.
13:28 ThomasMonroe perhaps
13:30 lisac        you could have a command which votes the player to go to prison
13:30 lisac        for a specified amount of time
13:30 lisac        of course, if the player is alone on the server, you've got a problem
13:30 lisac        um... no idea how to solve that
13:31 lisac        but really, one person cannot undo the work of 50 in a short time
13:31 lisac        you could also require them to read the rules first
13:31 lisac        or manually grant interact
13:31 Shara        If I let players vote on things on my server, I suspect I'd soon abandon my server.
13:31 lisac        lol Shara you are right
13:31 lisac        give a vote immunity priv
13:32 lisac        /callvote xban Shara
13:32 lisac        hey Windows 10 has virtual desktops
13:32 lisac        didn't know that
13:32 lisac        wow
13:32 Shara        Heh, my own admins have banned me before :)
13:32 lisac        I had my brother ban me once. We are on the same IP
13:32 Shara        Hah!
13:32 lisac        had to call another admin over IRC to unban us :P
13:32 lisac        Raven262
13:33 Shara        No IRC commands?
13:33 lisac        I think it was before them
13:33 lisac        not sure though
13:33 Shara        Ahh
13:33 lisac        it was on InchraNET
13:33 lisac        huh like... 2.5 years ago
13:33 lisac        wow I'm in Minetest for a long time :O
13:35 lisac        We could probably use a few more player animations
13:35 lisac        like, 'Point', 'Laugh', 'Swim'
13:35 lisac        wait, Swim one would be awesome
13:36 Calinou      swimming animations are problematic in 1×1 holes
13:36 Calinou      as well as shallow flowing water
13:36 Calinou      point/laugh animations don't make sense with low-detail cubic models
13:36 lisac        hm
13:36 Calinou      can we like… support the latest Minecraft skin format instead?
13:36 Calinou      it's only been 2 years
13:36 lisac        in World of Warcraft you've got emotes
13:37 lisac        like, animations with a /me telling stuff
13:37 lisac        /laugh /point /train /sit
13:44 Shara        I'd rather see security issues taken care of myself.
13:46 lisac        security issues?
13:47 shivajiva    I was hoping celeron55 was going to do something about that but it seems unlikely :/
13:48 shivajiva    lack of server side checking for fly and noclip in anticheat
13:49 Shara        lisac: when some players can give themselves what abilities they like, it can easily spoil gameplay for other players
13:50 lisac        Shara, like fly and noclip?
13:50 Shara        Yes.
13:50 Shara        It's not an issue on some servers, but can be a huge problem on others.
13:51 lisac        that is more of an anticheat problem
13:51 lisac        we need a good anticheat
13:51 lisac        enforced on both client and server
13:51 lisac        then just ban people cheating
13:51 lisac        not just warn them
13:51 Shara        That's what we're hoping.
13:51 lisac        ex. moved too fast? Ban him, not just return him to the old position
13:51 lisac        hmm
13:51 Shara        I don't care about banning them. False positives are an issue there anyway
13:52 Shara        Ideal would be that it just can't happen
13:52 Shara        celeron55 seemed to have ideas, so maybe we can get an update
13:52 shivajiva    the core is an engine, I hear it over and over but the engine devs expects the modders to create security mods, yet the engine doesn't perform well enough to allow it...catch 22
13:52 lisac        you probably can't prevent it in an opensource game
13:53 lisac        with CSM communication it wouldn't be that hard
13:53 lisac        check if player is in a node server side
13:53 lisac        and prevent lag clientside
13:53 lisac        if the player isn't using the mod he'll still be able to walk through nodes
13:53 lisac        but will get banned
13:54 nerzhul      shivajiva, i'm agaist core to be just an empty engine
13:54 nerzhul      against
13:54 nerzhul      it was kwoelr era. Minetest is more than an engine, it's a voxel game engine with features
13:55 nerzhul      if a mod is mandatory for everyone, just include in builtin or C++ core engine to have the most optimized version for everybody
13:55 Calinou      lisac: automatic bans are a touchy subject
13:55 Calinou      they should only be performed for stuff with basically no false positives
13:55 nerzhul      CSM is not for request client features from server
13:55 lisac        Calinou, kicks then?
13:55 Calinou      else, have fun unbanning innocent players
13:55 Calinou      lisac: doesn't really hinder cheaters
13:55 lisac        and a 1 minute ban?
13:55 Shara        Kicks don't fix anything.
13:56 lisac        maybe report it to admins
13:56 lisac        and have them manually check and ban
13:56 Calinou      that's much better
13:56 lisac        well that is a one mod
13:56 Shara        Yes, one of the things that was discussed was a report list the admin can view
13:56 Shara        So it's at least possible to identify who is worth watching more easily
13:57 Shara        But there needs to be a way to make that which won't grind the server to a halt as well
13:58 shivajiva    a good path finding routine instigated in the core could stop this surely? c55 seems to think it's a possibility
13:58 lisac        maybe make a mod which requires players to have a forum account associated with the ingame one?
13:58 lisac        to gain interact?
13:58 lisac        that way if someone is banned, he can't just change IP and rejoin with a different name
13:58 Shara        lisac: that's offputting to many genuine players
13:59 lisac        how so? Is there any genuine player without a forum account?
13:59 Shara        And if you can change IP you can just make another forum account as well...
13:59 Shara        lisac: plenty of them
13:59 Shara        I played for  along time myself without one
13:59 lisac        don't forum accounts require an unique email?
13:59 Shara        It's not like emails are hard to get either.
13:59 lisac        yes, but if a server requires it, the player can easily create one
13:59 lisac        it takes time is my point
13:59 lisac        he can't just re log
13:59 Shara        Some children won't be allowed to have their own email either
13:59 lisac        he has to spend 10 or so minutes creating email and forum account
14:00 Calinou      lisac: that would hinder way too many players
14:00 Calinou      global account should eventually be done, but not with forums
14:00 Calinou      (and should be optional, probably opt-in rather than opt-out)
14:00 Shara        Calinou: full agreement from me there
14:00 Calinou      lisac: catch-all emails are a thing
14:00 Calinou      and repeat offenders can be really quick at creating alt identities
14:00 Calinou      I figure the good ones can do it in 2-3 minutes
14:01 lisac        alright then: have public servers which don't require accounts. and semi-public ones which enforce master server banlist
14:01 lisac        and global accounts
14:01 Shara        Which doesn't fix the issue at all.
14:01 Calinou      master bans can be done too, but again, who would control the list?
14:01 lisac        it might
14:01 Shara        If I wanted to run a restricted server, I could whitelist
14:01 lisac        in zandronum, the developers to that
14:01 lisac        you report the player on the IRC channel
14:01 lisac        and provide proof of offence
14:02 Calinou      I've never seen a cheater on Zandronum myself
14:02 Calinou      so, heh
14:02 Calinou      it's not like the game is too alive now anyway
14:02 Shara        No offence, but I much prefer to trust the people who actually make it their daily activity to admin servers than those who make it their daily activity to code for the game. :P
14:02 Shara        Which isn't to imply devs aren't capable of that, but it's not the "thing they do" within MT. :P
14:02 Calinou      anyway, global bans are problematic for a game like Minetest too
14:03 Calinou      some servers do not allow griefing
14:03 Calinou      some make it part of the game
14:03 Calinou      some servers do allow griefing*
14:03 Shara        Yup, same with things like swearing.
14:03 Shara        A trust system where you can opt in to accept a ban list from certain servers that you feel are run in a comparable way to your own might be nice
14:03 Calinou      source: I've played on many Minecraft servers like that
14:03 Calinou      (and enjoyed it for the most part, even though it gets pretty evil at times)
14:04 Shara        But I'd never want to use some kind of master ban list I have no control of
14:04 shivajiva    all this is good but it puts the burden on the server admins, when it's possible to prevent the majority of cheating by checking the player position...
14:04 lisac        maybe force the server to use a certain set of rules in order to allow it's bans to be master-enforced
14:05 lisac        if the server doesn't enforce those rules, the bans are automatically rejected
14:05 Calinou      shivajiva: sometimes, server-side checks cost too much CPU and cause lag
14:05 Shara        bans are not the core issue here anyway
14:05 Calinou      (especially on low-end servers/VPSes)
14:05 lisac        and of course the admins still need to provide proof
14:05 Shara        lisac: I don't have time to stop and show someone else proof when admining
14:06 shivajiva    let's carry on bolting bells n whistles on a struggling engine...catch 22 again
14:07 Calinou      rewrite Minetest with Godot :P
14:07 shivajiva    freeminer made significant gains in map reduction and lag I believe?
14:07 octacian     Calinou: You know, I looked at Godot, really not a fan :P
14:08 Calinou      it's *the* attempt at having a successful open source game engine, what's wrong with it?
14:08 octacian     shivajiva: I gave Freeminer a try yesterday, and believe it or not, found it to be more laggy than Minetest
14:08 Shara        Please don't get me started on map size issues :(
14:08 Calinou      face it, all the other FOSS "engines" before sucked
14:08 octacian     Calinou: True, it's not bad. Maybe I'll have to look into it more. However, porting Minetest to Godot just wouldn't be a good idea :P
14:09 lisac        Calinou, I've got it installed right now. I'm not sure I like the language
14:09 lisac        it is using
14:09 lisac        looks like python
14:09 lisac        I'm not really into python
14:09 octacian     rubenwardy: How does your python uploader get the password to sftp? Or does it use key authentication?
14:10 lisac        does it send it in plaintext?
14:10 lisac        :P
14:10 octacian     lisac: You know, Python honestly seems pretty nice. I'm planning on porting my two WIP Electron programs to Python with wxWidgets.
14:10 Calinou      lisac: it's a custom language, but C# will be available in 3.0 (via Mono)
14:10 Calinou      also, C++ remains an option with custom modules, or soon, GDNative
14:10 lisac        wow then I'm going to use C++ :P
14:10 * lisac      opens Godot
14:10 octacian     lisac: Dunno, it's for uploading images to an sftp server right from your desktop. For example, rubenwardy has i.rubenwardy.com
14:11 lisac        hmm
14:11 octacian     ...and I am configuring i.endev.xyz rn :D
14:11 lisac        I'm right now searching for a Nyan on Craigs
14:11 lisac        no luck so far
14:11 Calinou      lisac: if you want to use C++ right now, you need to recompile the whole engine
14:11 Calinou      you won't need to in 3.0
14:11 lisac        oh
14:11 lisac        well that is sad :(
14:12 lisac        is 3.0 coming soon?
14:12 Calinou      2-3 months
14:12 lisac        what about alpha releases?
14:13 lisac        oh wait its on github
14:15 Calinou      you can get development builds at this link: https://bintray.com/calinou/godot/editor/_latestVersion#files
14:17 lisac        thanks Calinou :P
14:27 lisac        Calinou, I managed to get it to show a cube
14:27 lisac        :P
14:28 Calinou      that's very  easy
14:30 ThomasMonroe @Calinou i agree with octacian i dont really lik godot, the interface is buggy and its somewhat wierd in the way it works
14:30 Calinou      the 3.0 editor has a much-better looking theme
14:30 Calinou      (and you can change the colors/contrast/font easily)
14:32 lisac        hm it does, but it still needs some getting used to
14:35 lisac        wow it even has settings shortcuts
14:35 lisac        nice
14:38 nerzhul      shivajiva, i'm working on performance improvements client side these days
14:48 shivajiva    good to hear nerzhul :)
14:48 nerzhul      it take times but i have an optimization path in a specific problem client side
14:49 nerzhul      server side ti's more complicated
14:49 nerzhul      but i have a little mapgen/client performance improvement in voxel areas, dropping many memory copy and calculs which are useless
14:50 shivajiva    I noticed you were trimming the fat on a recent pr you made
14:50 nerzhul      it depend on my motivation & time
14:54 Dumbeldor    nerzhul you are motived !! :D
14:54 Dumbeldor    Let's go to dev minetest !
14:55 shivajiva    I understand perfectly, it would be nice to have a security road map that can be progressed towards balancing performance against leaving gaps the server admin has to diligently watch for.
14:56 nerzhul      for security it depend on which context but for me xban2 and more should be in core, we have a ban manager but it's not used
14:57 shivajiva    yes I'd like to see that
14:57 shivajiva    as a mod it has issues with the file size and serialisation
15:00 shivajiva    it's too easy to damage, leaving you scrambling for a backup
15:03 ruben2       thanks :)
15:04 wardyruben   FWIW, I agree with having more anti-cheating measures in the engine
15:05 wardyruben   and also more performance
15:05 wardyruben   so look forward to seeing what happens
15:05 Shara        I no longer trust xban2. I've had too many issues with it
15:05 wardyruben   doesn't it corrupt quite often?
15:05 Shara        Yes
15:05 octacian     Wait, so wardyruben and ruben2 are the same as rubenwardy?
15:05 Shara        I was restoring from back up only for it to corrupt again within a few days
15:05 twoelk       actually minetest could use a lot more built in admin tools, including anticheat tools
15:06 wardyruben   yes, octacian
15:06 wardyruben   left my password at home aha
15:06 octacian     You know, maybe if the features from xban2 were built in to the engine as suggested and saved information in the database
15:10 Shara        At the moment, you end up with a crazy large text file and then it corrupts.
15:11 Shara        It seems like I have to delete and start from scratch every 6 months or so, and there's also a period of disruption after doing that when previously banned people come back and try to "take revenge"
15:13 wardyruben   mod storage would mitigate slightly
15:13 wardyruben   but really you need a database
15:13 shivajiva    ^
15:13 Shara        :)
15:14 wardyruben   SELECT isBanned FROM Clump INNER JOIN User ON User.clump_id = id WHERE User.username = 'foobar';
15:15 wardyruben   although meh
15:16 shivajiva    SELECT isBanned FROM Clump INNER JOIN User ON User.clump_id = id WHERE User.username = 'foobar' OR User.ip = 'foobar';
15:18 shivajiva    needs a UUID to catch the scope though
15:18 shivajiva    names and IP's are not unique to a player
15:49 Krock        o/
15:49 wardyruben   o/
15:49 wardyruben   I'm feeling a bit odd today
15:50 Krock        I see. your name is quite mixed up
15:53 Krock        https://i.redd.it/dp54vbgsbpbz.png <- wardyruben
15:53 Krock        as you've also found the best answer to an issue on github ;)
15:53 wardyruben   ha
15:56 lisac        Wanna hear a UDP joke?
15:57 lisac        -tells a joke
15:57 lisac        I don't get it
15:57 lisac        - I don't care
15:57 lisac        :P
16:01 Wayward_One  hi all
16:01 lisac        hey Wayward_One
16:04 shivajiva    o/
16:56 benrob0329   Hello
16:56 Krock        hi benrob0329
16:57 Krock        lisac, would you like to hear a TCP joke?
16:57 lisac        yes, I'd like to hear a TCP joke
16:58 Krock        ok, I've got a TCP joke for you
16:58 lisac        ok, I will hear a TCP joke
16:58 Krock        are you ready to hear this joke?
16:58 lisac        yes, I'm ready to hear this TCP joke
16:59 Krock        Sorry, the connection was aborted. Would you like to hear a TCP joke?
16:59 lisac        No thanks lol
16:59 Krock        :(
16:59 shivajiva    lol
16:59 lisac        :P
16:59 KaadmY       :D
16:59 benrob0329   ...so whats up? Aside from Lua lacking proper ways of making a database.
17:00 shivajiva    see lsqlite3
17:00 Krock        io.open("./text.txt", "w"):write(minetest.serialize(database))
17:00 Krock        io.close()
17:00 benrob0329   that's not part of lua
17:00 benrob0329   Which is my point
17:01 shivajiva    neither is luasocket but hey nobody is complaining :D
17:01 lisac        why even use files for storage anymore
17:01 Krock        we have ModStorage, which can be used for some purposes
17:01 lisac        yeah
17:01 Krock        shivajiva, just the few windows users
17:01 lisac        a lot simpler then writing your own system
17:01 shivajiva    muhahaha
17:01 Krock        lisac, if not files - where do you >store< your data then=?
17:02 * benrob0329 mumbles about how if you had used TCP lib X instead or TCP lib Y the joke wouldn't have timed out
17:02 lisac        Krock, um.. ModStorage?
17:02 lisac        I mean, I don't store to files directly
17:02 benrob0329   *of
17:05 nerzhul      use mod storage to store your data globally for mod and player attributes for player attributes :)
17:05 lisac        y ez
17:12 Hijiri       does mod stoprage not work on windows?
17:13 benrob0329   Hijiri: yes, mod stoprage doesnt work on windows, or linux, or Mac.
17:13 Hijiri       ok, what about mod storage
17:13 benrob0329   That should work everywhere.
17:14 benrob0329   Unless the client is broke, then I give no guarantees.
17:14 Krock        I'd rather not want to be broke
17:14 lisac        Hi Hijiri
17:14 Hijiri       oh, I was referring to what Krock said, but I guess that was talking about lsqlite3 rather than ModStoragfe
17:15 Hijiri       ModStorage
17:15 Hijiri       hi lisac
17:15 Krock        what's ModStoragfe
17:15 Krock        nvm
17:15 Hijiri       actually Im about to leave
17:15 benrob0329   To take typing lessons?
17:17 KaadmY       benrob0329: rekt
17:24 cx384        I have found a crazy bug. If you join with the latest dev version of minetest on an "old" server, your field of view is one block higher then it should be. Maybe someone should fix this. http://imgur.com/a/Slwf0
17:29 cx384        No backwards compatibility anymore?
17:31 Krock        none for you, or any other minetest player/server owner who goes the master way towards 0.5.0
17:31 Krock        you can get the backwards compat by reverting the specific commit
17:31 benrob0329   Krock: ohh, that explains it
17:31 cx384        oh ok thank you
17:32 Krock        -dev isn't meant to be stable
17:33 cx384        Thats obvious.
17:33 Krock        indeed, but should be said sometime
17:43 cx384        bb
18:15 rubenwardy   :3
18:17 KaadmY       :3
18:35 CWz          I have solution when dumb admin use -dev for server and than complain about breakage, said admin explodes. i will work on the pullrequest right away
18:35 KaadmY       Exploding players should be a thing
18:36 KaadmY       I just had an idea for a really, really insanely dangerous plant
18:36 KaadmY       Rare plant in caves
18:37 KaadmY       When you touch it, it has sticky seeds that attach to you and hurt you by 10HP to a minimum of 1hp
18:37 KaadmY       And blow a hole around you
18:37 KaadmY       And you walk like 2x faster meanwhile
18:40 CWz          Weird
18:40 CWz          Sounds like a sunday morning
18:57 lisac        hey do you think this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18056 mod could be added into minetest_game? I could of course clean it up
18:57 * lisac      has low hopes.
19:02 paramat      rightly :]
19:02 paramat      tools lasting longer because they have gained levels makes no sense, or, should be an optional thing
19:03 lisac        paramat, you are spending tools to repair them
19:03 paramat      MTG is really trying to avoid adding unnecessary things, we don't have enough active devs, it's almost in maintenanace mode
19:03 lisac        after a few repairs, they ought to get harder to break
19:05 paramat      still makes no durability sense, gameplay sense yes, but there's no need to add it to MTG, MTG is mean to be the simple basics
19:05 paramat      *meant
19:05 Shara        It's a really nice mod, but I don't think right for MTG
19:07 paramat      what people need to do is start coding new subgames instead of trying to get everything they want into MTG
19:07 lisac        :( alright, a few players just commented on the thread about it
19:07 lisac        hey paramat you gave me a nice idea
19:07 Shara        paramat: if MTG needs more people working on it, there needs to be clearer info about what direction MTG should go and what kind of things are wanted
19:07 lisac        a separate game, minetest_enchanted
19:07 lisac        which adds stuff not inside MT game, but still keeping it stable and fast
19:08 lisac        yeah is it even supposed to be a playable game?
19:08 lisac        or just a showcase of engine functions?
19:08 lisac        or maybe a base for other games?
19:08 Shara        Personally I am quite happy to work on things, but I need to know the expectations and what is wanted.
19:08 rubenwardy   ^
19:09 rubenwardy   might just work on Pixture instead
19:09 lisac        maybe paramat and other devs should write a roadmap for both minetest and minetest_game
19:09 lisac        containing wanted features and the end result
19:10 lisac        like, 'Add more stone uses somehow', 'Add a better anticheat system', etc.
19:10 Shara        Like.. a few people, including devs, showed interest in my handholds mod for MTG inclusion before, but it's pointless me writing mods with MTG as the intended focus because the odds of them getting in seem minute.
19:10 Shara        So I have to write things with the intention of them being totally seperate, and then... they may as well be totally seperate.
19:11 rubenwardy   lisac, like this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1488
19:12 paramat      oh crumbs, the 'direction of MTG' thing :] it's been discussed a lot
19:13 Shara        I'd like to contribute more an dhelp more, but when even adjusting descriptions for consistency divides opinions... ouch :P
19:13 paramat      MTG is still a mod base (admittedly not well designed for that) but we are adding more simple content to make it a little more satisfying to use on it's own
19:13 paramat      c55 has roadmaps for MT, they're worth reading
19:14 Shara        paramat: is that official, given that at least one developer has said servers should not be using MTG, (but if it's the mod base, servers need mods... and it's true that a huge number of mods depend on at least defailt...)
19:14 Shara        ?*
19:15 lisac        'I don't like the definition of the time period, MTG is more like semi-fantasy anime steampunk. We also have shiny steel nodes that are certainly not medieval.'
19:15 lisac        pls no anime
19:15 paramat      what i wrote is not 'official' because we haven't agreed on an official purpose, but it seems to me the current situation
19:15 lisac        why not postapocalyptic
19:16 lisac        that would explain why the universe is all blocks
19:16 lisac        and ofc the lack of mobs
19:16 Shara        I want it to be  amod base, though also for it to have the ability to function as a basic game in its own right.
19:16 lisac        and the existence of dungeons
19:16 lisac        and mese
19:16 paramat      'servers shouldn't be using MTG' is nonsense :]
19:16 Shara        All that is needed for that is the ability to turn off non-vital features
19:16 benrob0329   Offtopic: https://youtu.be/8OQtrmhpIXU
19:17 lisac        benrob0329, wtf is that
19:17 benrob0329   If you have to turn of a basic gameplay feature because its too laggy, there is a problem.
19:17 benrob0329   lisac: a meme
19:18 lisac        ofc
19:18 lisac        why not make several different minetest_games
19:18 lisac        like official subgasmes
19:18 lisac        *games
19:18 lisac        have a base_game
19:18 benrob0329   Because that splinters development even more
19:18 lisac        hm
19:19 lisac        well I don't see any other way if devs can't agree upon it's purpose.
19:19 paramat      it seems quite possible MTG will be just kept simple but with additions of content (biomes, flora) because there are 'plans' for new subgames which are made to be more complete and to impress
19:20 benrob0329   Perhaps we need a proper MTG council, with which to define a roadmap
19:21 paramat      yeah for example we could have very simple mobs in MTG, but only if they are optional
19:21 lisac        or a senate
19:21 lisac        pls call it senate
19:21 lisac        :P
19:21 sofar        congress
19:21 benrob0329   The Senate of Game
19:21 Shara        paramat: I'd love to see more games as well, but that only works if they are also "official" games.
19:21 lisac        no no, Senate
19:22 lisac        so that someone can once say "I'm the senate!"
19:22 lisac        and then "It's treason then!"
19:22 Shara        And since MTG can barely manage more than basic mainenance, how are the devs going to oversee whole other games?
19:22 Shara        maintenance*
19:23 lisac        Shara, MTG isn't as complicated as engine code
19:23 paramat      new subgames are not a problem with splitting dev time, because these can be made by individuals and groups who are not core devs, and that's what we want because smaller groups often produce subgames with more focus and character
19:23 Shara        lisac: I am very aware.
19:23 lisac        of course there needs to be someone to moderate pull requests.
19:23 lisac        But no need for only MT devs to work on MTG
19:23 lisac        and a lot of forum modders might want to try their hand at editing MTG, if invited
19:23 Shara        paramat: but will these games be "official"/on equal footing with MTG?
19:24 lisac        yeah. Will they be shipped with MT?
19:24 lisac        and supported on #minetest?
19:24 paramat      we have asked for new subgames to include, that will then be 'officially approved for inclusion', anyone can make them
19:25 lisac        maybe we could have a subgame store
19:25 lisac        and a mod store
19:25 Shara        some guidance would be nice.
19:25 rubenwardy   ^^
19:25 lisac        ^^
19:25 Shara        SInce I assume they need to differ suitably to be considered
19:25 lisac        some document containing game requirements.
19:25 Shara        Not requirements, but something to give an idea of what might be accepted
19:26 Shara        It's hugely offputting to invest so much time in such a big project to then be told "no, this isn't what we want for an official game"
19:27 lisac        a senate would help with that. Aside from voting, you could also get a rejection reason, and ability to post the game again for voting and address those issues
19:27 paramat      well, c55 has stated he is hoping for subgames that are differernt from MTG, that's been the problem, most are minor variations
19:27 KaadmY       paramat: well I posted Pixture, I forget what the exact response was, I think it just got stale
19:27 Shara        I would love to work on a subgame, and have ideas but... by myself? That's not going to happen any time soon.
19:28 rubenwardy   KaadmY, with some work Pizture would be good
19:28 Shara        And then I suspect it would not be judged acceptable one way or another.
19:28 rubenwardy   well, it's good currently
19:28 rubenwardy   I mean good for inclusion
19:29 rubenwardy   it feels quite neutral atm, needs more of a "feeling"
19:29 lisac        rubenwardy, MTG feels neutral to me
19:29 rubenwardy   MTG is neutral
19:29 lisac        yeah
19:29 rubenwardy   we don't want another MTG
19:29 lisac        and pixture has a nice brown style
19:30 lisac        IDK, but it seems as if KaadmY actually invested a lot of time to remake all the textures.
19:30 rubenwardy   Pixture feels like another MC clone, there's no world building as such
19:30 Shara        I want something progression focused.
19:30 rubenwardy   ^
19:30 lisac        it might be missing some story, okay.
19:30 Shara        I started mapping requirements for a game about a year ago.
19:30 sofar        no offense to kaadmy/etc, but pixture looks like a disaster
19:30 Shara        But I simply don't have the time (or possibly the coding skill either quite yet)
19:30 Raven262     Did any of you try Lord Of The Test? Thats a nice subgame.
19:31 sofar        500 shades of poop
19:31 benrob0329   But you have to remember, MT aint gonna host a Skyrim port.
19:31 KaadmY       sofar: in what way?
19:31 sofar        graphical style
19:31 lisac        benrob0329, no you probably can't have PvE or PvP progression
19:31 Shara        But what I wanted was progression focused, with actual reasons to visit/find different biome types and so on
19:31 lisac        but you could have exploring progression
19:31 lisac        with dungeons hiding treasures like craft recipes
19:31 lisac        and being unable to craft stuff until you get a recipe
19:32 sofar        (I do like some parts of pixture's mechanics)
19:32 benrob0329   Having to look for a crafting recopy is really tedious
19:32 rubenwardy   I don't really focus on graphs
19:32 rubenwardy   *graphics
19:33 Shara        I'd be in favour of a system where you do certain tasks or things to earn crafting recipes, but finding them randomly.. yes, tedious
19:33 benrob0329   rubenwardy: graphics can make or break a game
19:33 rubenwardy   I agree
19:33 rubenwardy   and think that they do need attention for a good game
19:33 rubenwardy   however, game play first
19:33 Shara        For example, after you craft x number of normal tools, you might learn to make better tools
19:33 rubenwardy   although graphics give a feeling which may impact game play
19:33 lisac        Shara, you'd of course start with common recipes, but you would find epic stuff in dungeons
19:33 lisac        like special tools
19:34 Raven262     Those are RPG elements.
19:34 benrob0329   Shara: but while we can do that, we cant do other kinds of progression as easy
19:34 Raven262     And those belong in its own sugbame.
19:34 Raven262     *subgame
19:34 Shara        benrob0329: Like I said, I started planning something over a year ago.
19:34 Shara        Raven262: That's what we're talking about
19:34 Raven262     Okay
19:34 benrob0329   Like, what I find when I sit down in a new world with lets say, mesecons
19:35 benrob0329   Is all I want to do is build the mesecons, everything else is tedious and boring
19:35 benrob0329   Mining, smelting, mining some more
19:36 lisac        benrob0329, we need an ultimate objective?
19:36 benrob0329   There is "progression" in the sense that I have to find and dig deeper
19:36 benrob0329   *find materials
19:36 benrob0329   But its not fun
19:36 lisac        yeah, but it isn't very satisfying one
19:36 lisac        right
19:36 lisac        you don't have a lot of ways to die
19:36 lisac        only by falling
19:36 lisac        or maybe buring
19:36 lisac        *burning
19:36 benrob0329   Which still takes my life a lot...
19:36 Shara        Yet for a game called "mine" test, there is zero variation underground beyond how frequent ore is and what shape/how large the caves are
19:37 Raven262     V7 improved that quite a bit
19:37 lisac        Shara, maybe the map is too big
19:37 benrob0329   Exploring the first 50 or so caves is fun, after that its pretty meh
19:37 lisac        maybe if we had different realms spawn at different depths
19:37 benrob0329   And really only v6 caves do the name "mine" justice
19:37 Shara        lisac: no, it's not about map size, it's about absolute lack of content underground
19:38 lisac        Shara, you can hardly fill 31 000 blocks of height with content
19:38 Raven262     really?
19:38 Raven262     https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18048
19:38 Shara        Filling it all isn't really the point here.
19:38 Shara        Even one or two underground biomes would make a huge difference
19:39 lisac        alright; we could use some underground diversity
19:39 Raven262     Also, underground mushrooms.
19:39 benrob0329   What I'd like to see is balance, right now you pretty much have to clump a bunch of mining, then a bunch of building, then a bunch of smelting, THEN joy can have fun
19:39 benrob0329   But the fun is gone, and your energy is waisted
19:40 Shara        Raven262: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/CRL_lichen-900x563.png
19:40 benrob0329   Like with mesecons, mese is one of the rarest materials in the world!
19:40 Raven262     Caverealms, Shara?
19:40 Raven262     Or some other mod that i haven't heard of
19:40 Shara        CRL, not regular caverealms
19:40 Raven262     Ah
19:40 benrob0329   So you have to do a metric crapton of mining to automate your door
19:41 benrob0329   that's not fun!
19:41 lisac        railways underground would be nice
19:41 lisac        like building a railway along your tunnel which can carry materials
19:41 Shara        But this has gone totally offtopic anyway
19:41 Shara        I'd love to work on a subgame, but cannot do it by myself even though I have a lot of ideas
19:41 lisac        hm would be nice if default carts could store materials
19:42 benrob0329   Or technic, your so focused on automating everything that you never peak your head out because your in a constant loop of mine -> smelt -> get more rubber
19:42 lisac        Shara, me and Raven262 might be thinking about working on a subgame
19:42 Raven262     We what? Oh, yes, maybe.
19:42 lisac        if you are looking for team members. Or need some more communism.
19:43 benrob0329   We need diversity in progression, but still allowing people to do what they find fun
19:43 Raven262     Did i mention that i'm already developing a subgame?
19:43 lisac        LoTT, Raven262?
19:43 Raven262     Yea
19:43 Shara        Raven262: My involvement would very much depend on what the game was
19:43 Raven262     Well
19:44 Shara        We'd also need to make sure we had the right skills between members of any group set up to try something
19:44 Raven262     LOTT is this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5578
19:44 lisac        #lordofthetest
19:44 Shara        I have no interest in LOTT sadly
19:45 Raven262     Heh
19:45 Shara        It has to be fully unique and not based on something.
19:45 Raven262     I suppose then, its Amaz, lumidify and me.
19:45 Raven262     Alsone.
19:45 Raven262     *alone
19:45 Shara        I doubt an LOTR based idea is going to get added as an official game anyway
19:46 lisac        probably not. It is too big
19:46 lisac        Amaz, what do you think?
19:46 Shara        More about it being LOTR.
19:46 sofar        anything that smells like a trademark violation avoidance is a no-no imho
19:46 Shara        ^
19:46 lisac        sofar, I think LotR trademark is long gone
19:46 sofar        think again
19:46 Shara        seriously think again
19:47 rubenwardy   I doubt it has
19:47 rubenwardy   why are there so little LOTR movies?
19:47 Shara        It is not too difficult to be original.
19:47 rubenwardy   why aren't there any TV shows?
19:48 sofar        http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4806%3Aqvz1jw.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=lord+of+the+rings&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query
19:48 rubenwardy   Tolkien died on September 2, 1973. Unless this law is amended, all of his works will enter the public domain in the UK on January 1, 2044.
19:48 sofar        click that link
19:48 rubenwardy   This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue.
19:48 sofar        trademarks can be kept alive indefinitely
19:48 lisac        This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue.
19:48 * lisac      is away
19:48 sofar        I count 9 trademarks "The lord of the rings" that are active
19:48 lisac        cya later
19:48 sofar        actually, way more
19:49 sofar        like, 30+
19:49 lumidify_    LOTT could technically just be renamed and modified a bit (changing the names of places, etc.) to turn it into a generic fantasy game :P
19:49 Shara        But if anyone wants to make a serious attempt at an alternative game which isn't messing with trademarks, or wants ideas/criticism on one, let me know.
19:50 lumidify     Fantasy FTW
19:50 Raven262     Yes
19:50 sofar        all of those lotr trademarks are held by ONE company, too
19:51 tumeninodes  Hi all. Oooooooo... game talk : )
19:51 Shara        Hi tumeninodes
19:51 benrob0329   Another roubt for progression is combat
19:51 Raven262     Hi tumeninodes
19:51 benrob0329   Except..oh wait minetest lacks good combat
19:51 Shara        I don't think MT can cut it there at all.
19:51 Raven262     But it is so intensive, the combat!
19:51 Raven262     The action
19:52 benrob0329   We have a mele based combat system, where you only ever use one type of weapon
19:52 tumeninodes  A good game..., needs a good story. A plot, goal, objective
19:52 Raven262     You can always modify it to give you lifesteal and some other rpg stuff
19:52 Raven262     the weapon i meant
19:52 benrob0329   And that weapon is disposable, and only has one attack
19:53 benrob0329   A club? You ask..no, a horrible representation of the sword
19:53 Raven262     same
19:53 Raven262     they would just look different
19:53 Raven262     they do exactly the same thing
19:54 Raven262     all of mtg weapons do the exactly same thing, and all of them also look exactly like ach other.
19:54 Raven262     *each
19:55 Shara        tumeninodes: yea, I would like to work on a subgame with actual progression  of some kind but...  getting people to work with = not happening
19:55 benrob0329   The only kind of honing you can do for your skill is how you jump back and forth because we cant block either.
19:55 tumeninodes  would be cool if weapons could be leveled up, via achievements
19:55 tumeninodes  Shara, that seems the hardest obstacle
19:56 Raven262     leveled up: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18056
19:56 benrob0329   Just getting better and giving each wepon its own trates and advantages would make a world of difference
19:56 benrob0329   And no, enchanting doesn't count
19:56 Raven262     Shara, I could work on textures if you really plan a subgame.
19:57 benrob0329   That is still disposable, and relies on random chance for how good the weapon is
19:57 Shara        Raven262: Have any examples of textures you've done that I can look at?
19:57 lumidify     The problem is, how could you make a subgame continue to be interesting? Even if you add a story, that story will eventually be done, so it would still need to be pseudo-random in some way.
19:57 Raven262     sure
19:57 Raven262     I've done some stuff for lott
19:57 Shara        lumidify: that's an issue with any game at all ever
19:57 Raven262     and some texture pack that got deleted
19:57 tumeninodes  Raven, yes I saw that, is a great idea
19:57 KaadmY       lumidify: solution: make the gamme hard af
19:58 benrob0329   lumidify: story should inspire the mechanics, and the mechanics is what make the story
19:58 Raven262     Shara, http://i.imgur.com/aNmMu1C.png
19:58 Raven262     these are 32px though
19:58 Raven262     i do work in lower resolution too
19:58 Shara        Raven262: all done from scratch?
19:58 lumidify     Yes, but other games have a set end, Minetest just sort of continues.
19:58 Raven262     Yep
19:58 Shara        I actually prefer 32x
19:58 Raven262     Pixel by pixel
19:58 Raven262     it took me some hours to get each done
19:58 Shara        Those are pretty good
19:58 Raven262     and some tries
19:58 Raven262     Thanks
19:59 Raven262     They don't exist anymore though.
19:59 Raven262     (dd)
19:59 KaadmY       Hehe
19:59 Shara        ouch
19:59 KaadmY       dd if=/dev/sanity of=/dev/despair
19:59 Raven262     some tools i made for lott: http://i.imgur.com/yFS7wic.png
19:59 tumeninodes  lumidify, but MC does the same thing. Hence the numerous subgames and adventure maps, etc
19:59 benrob0329   lumidify: lots of story games continue, see skyrim or GTA
19:59 Shara        Recreate from screenshot!!
19:59 Raven262     I would try, but i'm not sure the colours are same
20:00 Shara        Doesn't matter. You can play with colours until you get soemthing you like again anyway
20:00 benrob0329   But they are fun enough that people mod and replay, or even just try for and all achievement rout
20:00 KaadmY       sofar: I should also probably mention that Pixture's textures were made 2 years ago and they were literally the first pixel art I'd ever done :)
20:00 tumeninodes  what is needed is..., good map makers (meaning adventure / challenge maps) minigames
20:00 lumidify     I guess pseudo-random quests could keep the game sort of alive.
20:01 KaadmY       But yes, they do need an overhaul
20:01 Raven262     It takes ages to make textures like that, i don't know how i let myself lose them.
20:01 tumeninodes  Raven, I know your pain
20:02 KaadmY       Hm I have an idea for a hardcore survivial type subgame
20:02 KaadmY       It'll need a custom mapgen though
20:02 Raven262     fractal mapgen?
20:02 Raven262     xD
20:02 KaadmY       No :P
20:02 KaadmY       I need a gradiented mapgen
20:02 Raven262     ah
20:03 KaadmY       So it's like a blend from ocean to mountain ranges
20:03 KaadmY       And extends infinitely in the other axis
20:04 rubenwardy   my biggest C++ project now has 64 classes (not including test ones)
20:07 tumeninodes  I definitely like the idea of a game which adds progression
20:08 Shara        Well, I have ideas, but little time. That's my problem. And I don't expect anyone else to code my ideas.
20:09 tumeninodes  I ran into too many ideas, with an inability to narrow them down :P So, I opted to create a version based solely on building/creative. So it can't be labeled a sub-"game"
20:10 tumeninodes  although I am still keeping the ability to PvP and to add mobs when the time is right
20:10 Shara        What I started mapping out was a set of custom biomes, for both ground level and underground, which would contain items that would be needed for progression
20:11 Shara        Idealy I wanted a system where some biomes were difficult, even impossible, to navigate without having first created equipment from earlier/lower ranking ones
20:12 Shara        So skipping multiple tiers of equipment like in MTG would become something that couldn't happen
20:12 tumeninodes  your outline is how it should be
20:14 tumeninodes  players become more drawn in by challenge, that is what a game is all about. They can become obsessed with beating levels
20:14 Shara        I have worked in the area of world building and general outlining for how game play should work/progress on a couple of games, so do have some idea when it comes to the planning
20:15 Shara        But the whole project got sort of shelved because it's too much for one person
20:16 tumeninodes  I could see if it was on a time limit being too much for 1 but...
20:16 Shara        MTG has a team of developers and moves really really slowly.
20:16 tumeninodes  Wuzzy works alone, and has made fairly good progress
20:16 Shara        And I won't pretend I'm as good a coder as any of them :P
20:18 tumeninodes  But then again, any of "them" (haha) would probably be willing to help here n there, especially with someone who contributes to MT/MTG
20:19 tumeninodes  in the way of advice or review, etc... solution ideas
20:19 benrob0329   tumeninodes: unfortunately that is 99% of MT sub "games"
20:19 benrob0329   Its building, and a mobs mod slapped on for good measure
20:19 Shara        I don't know enough about mapgen and that's the first hurdle really
20:20 Shara        But if I worked on my own idea I'd want it done properly.
20:20 tumeninodes  benrob, I agree. It is because most are literally brainlocked on MTG layout
20:20 Shara        And yea... I'd want to move away from MTG a lot, and that increases the time and learning needed
20:21 tumeninodes  Shara, Wuzzy feels the same, which is why he chose to work alone :D It is noce to have help, sure, but... can also lead to issues with different ideas and slow things down even more
20:23 tumeninodes  But, Shara..., good things take time. I think creating a subgame, for me at least, is fun, enjoyable, and a hobby because it is at my own leisure. I am in no rush. Then again, I am not looking for it to be accepted or included, etc. either
20:25 paramat      best to make one because you want to, it's no loss if it isn't bundled with MT
20:25 tumeninodes  I haven't even put any of it out yet on github because it's a mess. I am stripping out all aspects of crafting and sometimes run into a pandora's box situation and have to tape things back together :P
20:25 Shara        I want to, but I want to do a whole lot of things.
20:25 Shara        And I quite enjoy working with people
20:26 tumeninodes  people suck... :P
20:26 Shara        Nooo
20:26 tumeninodes  hehe
20:26 Shara        "Most" peopel suck :P
20:26 Shara        people*
20:26 tumeninodes  yes
20:26 tumeninodes  and I agree with paramat
20:27 Shara        It's just time. Otherwise I would.
20:27 Shara        I also know my own limits.
20:28 tumeninodes  Time is definitely no friend of mine either. But, I have no limits when it comes to making a mess of things... I am awesome at that
20:28 Shara        I specialise as well :D
20:29 tumeninodes  ha
20:29 Raven262     I myself, never make mess of things.
20:30 Raven262     Cause i always say "I'll do it later"
20:30 tumeninodes  Procrastination rules
20:31 tumeninodes  My gravestone will say "I'm working on it..."
20:31 Raven262     But i love this little mod that i started, for the first time i don't actually feel it to be a burden.
20:32 tumeninodes  the burden usually comes when it turns into actual "work"
20:32 Raven262     Well
20:33 Raven262     I spent 4 hours coding this morning
20:33 Raven262     just to add the support for lisac's mod
20:33 Raven262     and i don't know a thing about coding
20:33 Raven262     guess that now i do.
20:34 tumeninodes  cool
20:34 Raven262     There is no "desaturate" in texture grouping?
20:34 Raven262     Damn
20:34 * Raven262   is trying not to use too many resources.
20:35 Raven262     Also, yesterday i didn't know a thing about placing the schematics either, got that also.
20:35 Raven262     I like how things are slowly starting to work
20:35 Raven262     With a little patience
20:36 tumeninodes  heh, I have made some pretty messed up trees playing with .mts files before I got it right
20:37 tumeninodes  and I have messed up plenty of mapgen stuff as well (some with pretty cool outcomes)
20:37 Raven262     just force node replacing and make them spawn a lot, makes some messed up things.
20:37 tumeninodes  haha
20:37 Raven262     well
20:38 Raven262     sidelen = 8,
20:38 Raven262     fill_ratio = 0.0001
20:38 Raven262     In other words
20:38 Raven262     I have no idea how this works
20:38 tumeninodes  replacing all stone with air is interesting
20:38 Raven262     yea
20:38 Raven262     i made a server with that
20:39 Raven262     replace stone with air, and gravel blobs with stone
20:39 Raven262     instant asteroid mapgen
20:39 Raven262     :D
20:39 Raven262     I also added some nice space skybox
20:39 Raven262     and, well, it was a rather popular little server
20:39 Raven262     it was there some 3-4 days
20:39 tumeninodes  just need a laser "asteroids"
20:40 tumeninodes  ring ring, phonecall.. AFK
20:43 Raven262     Hmm those dungeons still spawn above the ground level
20:43 Raven262     not sure if tis intended
20:52 paramat      there's a setting
20:53 paramat      for 'projecting dungeons'
20:53 Raven262     i didn't know that
20:53 Raven262     well, my minetest has default settings
20:53 Raven262     i like this kind of dungeons, they look like abandoned ruins
20:54 * lisac      is back, comrades.
21:09 tumeninodes  ugh, I don't intend to sound mean but, does anyone else get annoyed by "coming soon" posts in the WIP/Mods section? :/ I don't understand the concept, why not wait until you actually have something to post?
21:10 Shara        tumeninodes: They just make me less likely to view that person's topics again
21:10 twoelk       raise the excitement, force self to fullfill, disguised ask for help?
21:11 tumeninodes  Shara, same.
21:12 tumeninodes  Hi twoelk, I guess those "might" be reasons but, not sure they are the reason used in this case
21:12 paramat      often nothing appears :]
21:13 tumeninodes  There was one WIP mod posted by the same person but it was just textures with nothing else. paramat, true
21:14 Shara        Maybe if it was someone who is known to produce things and they posted enough concept info and asked for feedback while the polish the final version, it would be fine with me.. but then generic "coming soon" posts are... ugh
21:14 * twoelk     has lots of plans for things he is not even close to get done soon
21:14 Shara        while they*
21:16 tumeninodes  yes, they are annoying. wasted a whole 3 seconds of my life... I feel... so empty inside now
21:16 * twoelk     wonders wether he should publish some of his concept papers to push his projects forwards
21:17 tumeninodes  twoelk should just make a few dozen "coming soon" posts :P
21:18 * twoelk     starts counting
21:19 twoelk       well if my memory doesn't fail me I might be still under half a dozen of unfullfiled promisses on the forums
21:21 tumeninodes  me too... with texture packs, but I am still working on them. And at least had the basic textures done, just not too excited about making new tool textures
21:21 sofar        choosing the right time to release is hard
21:21 tumeninodes  although I just lost a bunch of stuff I was working on,
21:22 sofar        I have a project that's been unfinished but releasable already for 4+ months I think
21:22 * sofar      cringes
21:22 tumeninodes  it can be but, there should at least be "something to release" once an announcement/post is made
21:23 sofar        nore: you don't do a good job of guilt-tripping people to get them back on track again
21:23 sofar        maybe I should delegate that responsibility to VanessaE
21:23 VanessaE     ...
21:24 tumeninodes  just think about all the poor, sad, crying children waiting
21:24 sofar        more of an adult/older targeted project
21:24 tumeninodes  same perspective
21:25 sofar        making adults cry is a life goal
21:25 tumeninodes  making children cry is far easier... (sometimes)
21:25 tumeninodes  and more satisfying :P
21:25 twoelk       well in mt if the chunk unloads the carts sort of vanish from the tracks --- so if my life unloads some activity chunks my cartloads of ideas just loose tracks quite seriously
21:25 sofar        making kids laugh and adults cry is far more satisfying than making kids cry and adults laugh
21:26 tumeninodes  I will take this into consideration
21:26 sofar        not to mention beneficial to society
21:26 sofar        you don't change adults by making them laugh
21:26 sofar        just look at Colbert
21:26 sofar        you don't change kids for the better by making them cry either
21:27 tumeninodes  society would be far better off with no adults
21:27 sofar        someone who says that hasn't properly adulted yet
21:27 tumeninodes  just for the record, I am a kid person...
21:27 tumeninodes  thpltpltplt
21:28 tumeninodes  most adults today are poor examples for children
21:28 sofar        no surprise that you are barely an adolescent :P
21:28 tumeninodes  har
21:29 sofar        alright, time to adult for me - meeting excavator and grading inspector
21:29 * sofar      afks
21:29 tumeninodes  my twisted humor often gives a different impression of who I am
21:29 twoelk       sounds like exciting times for sofar :-P
21:31 * twoelk     decides to drive home
21:31 tumeninodes  excavators love to "meet"
21:32 tumeninodes  is off to go make some children cry
21:45 benrob0329   paramat: that screenshot you posted is a bad example, as it looks like the shading it coming from the lamp :PP
21:45 benrob0329   which is something i would love to have, mind you
21:47 KaadmY       benrob0329: yeah, but it is an issue
21:48 benrob0329   yes, sunlight should be seperate from artificial light
21:48 benrob0329   and that would solve it
21:48 KaadmY       I can't do it right now though ;(
21:48 benrob0329   and that is the problem with the solution
21:48 KaadmY       Minetest's meshgen only gives enough data to find day/night (regardless of indoor-ness) and the RGB color
21:49 KaadmY       And the color isn't deterministic enough to get the light level
21:49 KaadmY       Since it changes with the baked AO
21:50 KaadmY       I might be able to embed an artificial light factor into the day/night ratio
21:50 KaadmY       Yeah right now the shader-side blue tint at night is really hacky
21:51 KaadmY       It uses the vertex's color
21:51 KaadmY       (R + G + B) / 3
21:51 KaadmY       And even that doesn't care about outdoors
21:51 KaadmY       It's just the light level
21:53 KaadmY       Lemme see if I can "merge" two numbers into one
21:53 paramat      added a better screenshot. it's a shame it doesn't work underground (yet)
21:53 benrob0329   indoor light that isnt shining through a window should have a warn (or cold. if its a cool white) glow to it
21:53 benrob0329   *warm
21:54 KaadmY       benrob0329: right now artificial light is already *slightly* brighter than   outdoors
21:54 KaadmY       I could make that yellowish, might have artifacts though
21:54 paramat      obviously, underground or completely indoor areas should be unchanged from current behaviour
21:54 * benrob0329 rebuilds shading branch
21:55 benrob0329   paramat: unless fully directional shading became a thing, which would be awesome (though well beyond the current code base afaik)
21:56 paramat      no please don't start recoluring lighting, we put a lot of effort into making sure it remained unchanged recently during hardware colouring changes, and even then some have noticed an undesirable change
21:57 KaadmY       paramat: why is having tinted artificial light an issue?
21:57 paramat      best not even hope for a new lighting system, no-one has time for unnecessary big changes
21:57 KaadmY       Why does CPU and GPU have to be identical...
21:58 paramat      because players and users are used to the current colouring and do not want some sickly yellow tinting or for colours to look different
21:59 paramat      such as Shara
21:59 rubenwardy   erm
21:59 rubenwardy   graphics settings?
22:00 benrob0329   current indoor lighting already has a warm glow...
22:00 KaadmY       Yay got a way to encode multiple values from 0-1 in a single float
22:02 paramat      well settings sure, like tone mapping, but a PR that applies directional shading should not alter colours, because that is not part of the feature
22:03 Shara        Would actually love to see proper coloured lighting.
22:03 Shara        But I know the odds of that.
22:05 paramat      yes artificial light is already warmer, colours are fine as they are
22:09 KaadmY       paramat: ah, that logic makes more sense.
22:12 paramat      sorry i was unclear. i mean tinted artificial light is fine 'on demand', but i'm saying don't change the colour appearence of a certain environment with a certin lighting
22:14 KaadmY       Examples?
22:14 KaadmY       Not sure I'm getting that idea yet
22:14 paramat      i tend to be careful about colour, because during the hardware colouring PR MT colour appearence changed slightly and i had to make a fuss to make sure it was tuned to be a very close match to before
22:18 paramat      erm, i'm saying, please don't change the colour of daylight or artificial light in MT (although you probably were not going to anyway), both are fine as they are and we try very hard to preserve them
22:27 paramat      .. unless of course you are coding an optional shader feature that is meant to alter colours, such as tone mapping
22:28 paramat      i'm referring to the colouring effect of the basic nodes shader, the basic nods shader that gets enabled when you enable the master checkbox on the settings page
22:28 paramat      *nodes