Time Nick Message 00:36 octacian How can I change a node's light level using voxel manipulator 00:44 kaeza octacian, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3574 ? 00:46 kaeza it's missing the data parameter, though 00:46 octacian kaeza: OK, now how do I apply that to a specific node? 00:46 octacian I'm trying to make a torch that emits light when wielded xD 00:46 kaeza octacian, the same way you would change the content 00:46 kaeza getting the "index" of the node, then setting that to a value 0-15 00:47 octacian I'll take a look, but I'm not very familiar with the voxel manipulator, which is why I asked 00:49 kaeza octacian, something like this: https://github.com/paramat/moonrealm/blob/11effb980afe437298bf75444a1c5b20ad9a9fcb/functions.lua#L21 00:49 octacian Thanks, will take a look 01:10 octacian kaeza: So I tried this (https://gist.github.com/octacian/1ba93762ec94f9bee7d7d5940a7eb187), however, it's not working. I think I'm not setting the light level right, but not sure 01:10 octacian I know that it's running through to the part where I call vm:set_light_data(14), however, nothing is changing in world 01:11 kaeza octacian, the argument to set_light_data is a table of integers 01:12 kaeza what I meant is you should do data[area:index(...)] = 14, then vm:set_light_data(data) 01:13 kaeza uh, also, the `data` seems to be node data in there 01:13 kaeza you are mixing content and light data there 01:14 kaeza TBH, I don't really think VManip will help in this case anyway 01:15 kaeza versus using `set_node` 01:22 octacian kaeza: Using set_node is only an option if the player isn't in a node that is simply set to be not walkable 01:26 octacian kaeza: Tried again, and updated the gist. Would you be willing to take a second look? 01:27 kaeza octacian, looks correct now. does it work? 01:29 octacian kaeza: It still doesn't change in the world, although the logger callback does show the new light level 01:29 kaeza hm 01:29 octacian FYI, that code is running in a globalstep 01:30 octacian Not optimized yet, will after I get the basic thing working 01:30 kaeza could it be the :update_map() call? 01:30 octacian What about it? 01:30 kaeza I don't even have MT on this machine, so cannot test 01:30 octacian Or wait, one sec 01:31 kaeza try removing the call and see what happens 01:31 * kaeza checks docs 01:31 octacian Tried removing it, no difference 01:31 kaeza >Does nothing, kept for compatibility. 01:31 octacian Weird thing is that when I dump the light level in minetest.log, it shows the updated light level of 15, but still nothing in-world 01:33 kaeza >Each value is the bitwise combination of day and night light values (`0` to `15` each) `light = day + (night * 16)` 01:33 octacian Tried vm:write_to_map(false) to prevent lighting from being calculated, but still nothing 01:34 kaeza well, I can't think of anything else 01:36 octacian I tried setting it to a higher value, like 159 01:36 octacian Which seemed to work. However, I'm now seeing that it seems to be very slow 01:37 kaeza maybe it's the globalstep. have you compared it against a plain set_node? 01:38 octacian Yup. plain set_node is much faster 01:38 octacian Maybe I'll have to just go for that method 01:41 kaeza the VoxelArea helpers may be very slow compared to C++. you could try copying the code you need and localize as much as possible 01:41 octacian Wait, your saying the voxelarea helpers are written in Lua? 01:41 kaeza ...yes 01:42 octacian >_< I feel like that is just in general a bad idea xD 01:42 kaeza https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/voxelarea.lua 01:42 octacian Will take a look, thanks 01:45 kaeza all those table lookups will surely kill performance, even in LuaJIT 01:46 kaeza another optimization would be to avoid the whole :write_to_map() thing if the old light value is the same as the new value (e.g. the player didn't move) 01:47 kaeza maybe even use `get_node` to get the old value and skip everything if unchanged 01:48 octacian I'll probably just compare positions 02:27 kaeza FWIW: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/279006550e8f61c79e358d96138bbe6e 08:56 IhrFussel calcul0n, KaadmY: Thanks for the responses =) And yes it sounds HORRIBLY laggy, so it's not really better than what I have right now (unbreakable block above the player's head that follow them) 08:57 IhrFussel unbrekable meselamp node* 08:57 IhrFussel unbreakable** 10:26 tenplus1 hi folks 10:50 tenplus1 hi Jordach 11:18 IhrFussel Tree nodes can turn into coal block nodes?? 11:18 tenplus1 hi Fussel... how'd you mean ??? 11:18 Calinou hi 11:19 tenplus1 hi Cal 11:19 IhrFussel tenplus1, someone told me he built his house with default:tree nodes and one of them suddenly turned into default:coalblock 11:19 tenplus1 sounds like someone replaced it with a coal block :P they dont normally turn into coal blocks 11:20 tenplus1 hi fixer 11:23 IhrFussel tenplus1, nope I checked the pos nobody placed a coalblock there 11:25 tenplus1 weird... any strange mods running that could do such a thing ? 11:28 IhrFussel tenplus1, I check my charcoal mod but it doesn't have any ABMs ... the weird thing is the log doesn't even mention the default:tree node the player placed there 11:28 IhrFussel Or is that the minetest.rotate() problem? 11:29 IhrFussel I mean the function that rotates the nodes based on look direction...IIRC it prevents the node from being added to the log or something like that 11:32 IhrFussel LOL it was the lightning mod 11:32 tenplus1 heh 11:32 IhrFussel Seems like a lightning bolt hit it 11:33 IhrFussel But I was right: default:tree nodes are not being logged since they use the rotate function 11:33 tenplus1 hi thomas 11:34 ThomasMonroe hi ten 11:35 IhrFussel hey Raven262 =) 11:35 tenplus1 hi nathan 11:35 tenplus1 hi raven 11:35 NathanS21 hi tenplus1 11:36 Raven262 Hello IhrFussel 11:36 Raven262 Hello tenplus1 11:37 Raven262 Lisac's mod seems to be getting popular 11:39 tenplus1 hi nrz 11:40 tenplus1 Mobs Redo API updated (tnt:explode deprecated, tnt:boom now in use and uses tnt's own tnt.boom function or visual effect if not active) 12:04 tenplus1 hi Megaf 12:05 IhrFussel You can enable double jump with a modified client? 12:05 tenplus1 wb octacian 12:05 tenplus1 you could add double jump to player.lua file prolly 12:06 IhrFussel But I mean client side 12:06 IhrFussel Someone says he is able to double jump 12:07 tenplus1 wouldnt be surprised... 12:07 Megaf Hi onetyone 12:07 Megaf Hi IhrFussel 12:10 IhrFussel But double jump would require quite a bit of custom coding I'm guessing right? 12:10 IhrFussel Hello Megaf =) I mean it's not just some flag you need to modify/ignore 12:13 Shara Hello 12:13 Shara IhrFussel: what do you mean by double jump? 12:13 tenplus1 hi RobbieF .. hi Sha 12:13 tenplus1 hi SHara 12:13 Shara Hi 11 12:15 tenplus1 I recommend to update to latest mobs api as it fixes a few issues previously with mob explosions 12:15 IhrFussel Shara, a player without fly,fast (and also didn't visibly cheat those with his client) took a special challenge on my server that requires you to jump precisely...and he was able to easily finish it...I asked him how he did that and he claimed "double jump" 12:15 Shara maybe it'S the sneak jump to gain extra height? 12:15 IhrFussel He said not sneak jump...wait I'll ask him for more details 12:17 Shara tenplus1: no updating here.. I am on holiday :P 12:17 tenplus1 ooh, you having fun :P 12:17 Shara yup, but having a day out of the sun before I cook 12:18 tenplus1 hi paramat 12:18 Shara Hi paramat 12:19 Shara still fussing around with some code though 12:19 IhrFussel False alarm he meant sneak jump but his English is worse than mine :P 12:19 Shara playing about with ideas for stopping oredetect 12:19 Shara Hah, Fussel, your english is quite fine 12:19 paramat btw in new move code there is a new sneak-jump that works (without needing physics override 'sneak glitch') with a certain pattern of nodes, link coming 12:19 tenplus1 ooh 12:20 paramat ugh forum is slow 12:20 Shara trying not to click too many links from here, especially the forum... 12:21 paramat well for later https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=274961#p274961 12:21 paramat and onwards 12:21 Shara paramat: problem is, is it still "only" two nodes max? 12:21 Shara I've honestly reached a point where I just want the option for old move code kept 12:22 paramat not sure didn't test, but it only happens with a particular structure so not a practical sneak jump 12:22 Shara do we know if there is a chance to keep the option yet? 12:22 paramat no problem i want the old move code option kept indefinately 12:23 paramat i made an issue and no-one opposes 12:23 Shara Yup, very much appreciated :) 12:23 IhrFussel tenplus1, Mobs Redo question: I want to disable ALL damage to owned animals ... is it enough to just add AFTER the damage calculation "if self.owner and self.owner ~= hitn then damage = 0 minetest.chat_send_player(hitn,"This animal is owned by another player, you cannot attack it.") end" ?? 12:23 paramat the option is harmless so as long as it is strongly wanted .. 12:23 Shara Most servers I know of are using the old move option as well. Might just be chance that those happen to be the servers I looked at, but still.. it says something 12:24 paramat yeah unsurprising 12:25 tenplus1 that would work fussel, yes 12:26 tenplus1 but... why change the api, I could easily add a new protection rune level 2 that does same thing ?!?! 12:26 Shara actually, that could be a nice option 12:27 Shara I get so many complaints about people finding ways to kill pets on DL.... 12:27 tenplus1 hi sniper ? 12:27 tenplus1 Shara, rune or paramats setting ? 12:28 Shara setting, but not sure if only paramat should get it :P 12:29 RobbieF Hi there tenplus1! 12:29 tenplus1 o// 12:29 RobbieF Hi friends 12:29 * RobbieF shakes fist at enemies 12:31 tenplus1 https://imgoat.com/uploads/16a5320fa4/30293.jpg wowser 12:37 tenplus1 is there a way to limit entity footstep sounds at a distance ? I have players saying they can hear mobs walking around 30 blocks away 12:38 tenplus1 hi DS 12:38 DS-minetest hi 12:42 paramat not sure, but default sound distance is 32 if unspecified 12:43 tenplus1 how do you specify ? 12:43 DS-minetest look into the api 12:45 tenplus1 this is all I see in api: makes_footstep_sound = false, 12:45 tenplus1 no setting for distance 12:45 paramat i doubt there's a setting for it 12:45 tenplus1 buuuuuuuuuu 12:46 paramat issue/PR! :] 12:47 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6131 12:53 tenplus1 hi lisac 12:53 lisac_ Hey tenplus1 13:01 IhrFussel How many of you would punish players asking in the public chat "wanna play on another server?" 13:02 tenplus1 I leave it up to them, but give warning at advertising of other servers in channel 13:02 tenplus1 hi sc3k 13:03 sc3k hello tenplus1 13:17 lisac tenplus1, why warn players about asking to play on another server? 13:17 lisac seems oppressive. 13:17 lisac If they don't like your server, they are free to go. And if the other server is better then yours, they'll stay there 13:17 lisac if not, they'll return 13:18 tenplus1 no no... I meant it's fine to ask someone to play elsewhere... but... specifically coming onto server to advertise another server is a no no 13:18 lisac okay :) 13:18 tenplus1 :PP 13:18 Shara yea, there is quite a difference between the two :P 13:19 Raven262 lisac, we need a server. 13:19 Raven262 One server to rule them all. 13:20 IhrFussel I'm not sure if I want to allow my players to ask it publically or in PMs ... IMO it is kind of rude to let everyone know "this server isn't good for me I need a better one who comes with me?" 13:21 tenplus1 depends if the player in question is asking in malice 13:22 Raven262 hehe /revoke shout 13:22 Raven262 Gonna do that on Craig's server in these cases 13:22 tenplus1 good option :D 13:25 IhrFussel tenplus1, in the case I just had it was a player joining JUST TO ask the players if they want to play with him on another server 13:26 tenplus1 ah, in that case it's a no go... I'd consider that specifically advertising another server... he should have msg'd the players in question 13:27 IhrFussel Is it also advertising if the player doesn't mention a server name? 13:27 Shara I don't like when players join only for that 13:28 Shara If someone joins and happens to talk about other servers, then leaves to play elsewhere after playing for a bit, that's fine. 13:28 Shara But joining just to try and get players to go elsewhere with them... ikkk 13:29 Shara I usually try to warn before actually doing anything though 13:29 tenplus1 yeah 13:30 Shara I play on other servers myself, can't expect my players not to :P 13:31 CWz local spawn_protected = tonumber(minetest.setting_get("mobs_spawn_protected")) or 1 does this mean that by default they don't spawn in protected areas? 13:34 tenplus1 hi CWz 13:34 CWz Ello 13:34 CWz tenplus1-chan 13:35 * CWz wonders where's Zeno`-sama 13:35 tenplus1 am gonna change that just now CWz 13:35 CWz change what 13:35 tenplus1 I had ideas planned for spawning in protected areas 13:36 tenplus1 but those are long since lost... so unless mobs_spawn_protected = false they wont spawn inside protected areas 13:37 CWz i also noticed that mobs don't seem to deal damage in spawn 13:37 tenplus1 how so ? I have dm's kicking my butt just now in spawn area :D 13:38 CWz Hmm not sure 13:44 tenplus1 k, git updated... 'mobs_spawn_protected' is a bool value now (default: true) 13:48 tenplus1 wb oc 13:54 CWz so now mobs will spawn in protected areas by default 13:54 CWz ... 13:54 tenplus1 yes 14:06 tenplus1 wb 14:08 DS-minetest thy 14:08 DS-minetest thx* 14:35 tenplus1 connection issues Megaf? 14:38 Megaf nah, just built the upstream kernel myself 14:38 Megaf Linux BigSam 4.12.0 #1 SMP Thu Jul 13 11:16:24 -03 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux 14:38 Megaf Linux version 4.12.0 (root@BigSam) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18) ) #1 SMP Thu Jul 13 11:16:24 -03 2017 14:38 Megaf :D 14:38 tenplus1 :P 14:38 tenplus1 am still on 4.11 for now :D 14:38 Megaf BigSam is my hostname 14:38 Megaf well, gtg, see you later, will be just idling here 14:38 tenplus1 o/ 14:50 IhrFussel tenplus1, sometimes the mobs suddenly disappear when they follow a player or are attacked and still have some HP left...lifetime counter up? 14:51 tenplus1 it could be... they shouldnt disappear unless 10 blocks away from player though... 14:51 IhrFussel I just attacked 2 mobs..I killed one and it dropped normally and the one next to it despawned with no drops before I could kill it o.o 14:52 tenplus1 strange... will check into that one 14:53 IhrFussel It doesn't happen a lot though...I'm guessing lifetime counter for some reason still counts in some cases when near a mob ... or maybe a bug with the "concurrent mobs in area" 14:57 tenplus1 if lifetimer hits 0 then it checks if player is nearby, if so mob wont despawn... 14:59 tenplus1 yeah it all works fine... strange ?!?! 14:59 tenplus1 in mobs api line 2424 to 2456 deals with despawning 15:00 CWz i wonder which ripoff client names their players invite_(number) 15:02 IhrFussel tenplus1, something I observed: It only seems to happen when the mob was loaded, THEN the player left so mob unloaded and later the mob loaded again...it seems to only happen then 15:04 tenplus1 hrm, could be that remove_far option is enabled, in which case mobs despawn if the slip into an unloaded bit of map 15:04 tenplus1 in that case they dont use lifetimers at all 15:05 IhrFussel So you mean the mod doesn't actually *see* when a mob unloads in that case? 15:06 IhrFussel Cause the mobs clearly still exist when I tp back to them, they only disappear after X secs 15:07 IhrFussel And yes I have that enabled remove_far_mobs = true so should I try to disable and check? 15:07 tenplus1 I have a setting called 'remove_far_mobs' - when active if a mob ends up inside an unloaded part of map it'll despawn (unless it's a tamed animal or npc) 15:07 tenplus1 if false then lifetimers come into play 15:08 IhrFussel Yes but the mobs don't despawn in unloaded blocks...they seem to despawn right next to the player 15:08 tenplus1 the latest map changes load mapchunks in front of players now... could be when the mob was behind it fell into an unloaded area of map... will have to test 15:08 tenplus1 and even then it should never despawn within 10 blocks of player 15:08 tenplus1 that part is hardcodd 15:09 IhrFussel Question: if I disable remove_far_mobs = true ... how big will the performance impact be? 15:09 tenplus1 it'll still count mobs per active area so none should spawn until old one's initially despawn 15:12 IhrFussel So if I understand it correctly each spawned mob has a timestamp sort of in the meta data and whenever it's inside the active block range the timestamp will be compared to the current time and if it hit X secs it will despawn (unless owned)? 15:15 IhrFussel If it works like that I'm not sure if I'd like that better...some of my mobs have LOTS of HP ... it would be pretty bad if they despawned after much effort from a player...is there a way to ignore the lifetimer when the mob is attacking? 15:15 tenplus1 if a mob is attacking player then timer will NOT go down... 15:16 tenplus1 they dont despawn in the middle of battle, that's one of the checks 15:16 IhrFussel Oh alright then I'll try this option 15:16 tenplus1 :P 15:17 IhrFussel Thanks^^ 15:24 tenplus1 check lines 2424 to 2456 and see if you can gimmie ideas on making it better 15:43 Krock hi tenplus1 15:43 tenplus1 hey Krock :P 15:50 Shara Okay... silly question maybe, but how do I actually get CSM mods to work? :) 15:50 tenplus1 'clientmods' folder inside .minetest 15:50 Shara Yea got as far as putting the mod there 15:50 tenplus1 inside that a mods.conf file containing mods to enable 15:50 tenplus1 load_mod_csm_chest_inspector = true 15:50 tenplus1 or so I was told 15:50 Shara ahh, so you have to name the specific mod in conf? 15:51 tenplus1 think so, yeah 15:51 tenplus1 it's a bit of a pain to use 15:51 Shara I found a reference to enable_client_modding = true and assumed it was just one general enable 15:51 Shara trying to test ways to beat oredetect, but of course, need oredetect running to see if it beats them :P 15:52 tenplus1 I like the [noores] mid 15:52 tenplus1 er... no_ores mod 15:52 Shara does that make stoen drop ore? 15:52 tenplus1 removes them completely and has a chance of digging stone to obtain them :D 15:52 Shara if so, I really dislike that 15:52 Shara ewww 15:52 tenplus1 ehehehehe 15:52 Shara no ta :P 15:53 Shara this still doens't seem to work 15:53 Shara but maybe because I have no clue what I am meant to see 15:54 tenplus1 someone mentioned they were re-doinging mod menu and showing client mods on it... 15:54 tenplus1 brb 15:58 IhrFussel I modified the bones now so that players get to keep their stuff if really no air or water node can be found 5 nodes around them...I think DROPPING the items is bad 16:00 tenplus1 that's kinda cheating dude 16:00 tenplus1 the only way it it wouldnt drop bones is if player is using noclip and in a solid mass of nodes... it would always find an empty space or water node 16:00 IhrFussel Why cheating? It's pretty unlikely that there will be no air/water 5 nodes in all directions 16:01 IhrFussel Nope, you forget lava..I removed that from may_replace cause it sounds ridiculous to have players SWIM in LAVA to get their bones back 16:02 IhrFussel Many players are STUCK this way cause they try to get their bones and die, respawn, swim, die etc etc 16:02 Shara and now it tries to run, but oredetect itself gives an error :P 16:03 tenplus1 if the player doesnt have protection and tries to swim in lava or drown in water then items SHOULD drop 16:03 tenplus1 it's player progression that teaches them lessons 16:04 IhrFussel I disagree with lava...you shouldn't take away their stuff like that 16:05 tenplus1 they never learn then, they would easily kill themselves in lava knowing they can keep items 16:05 tenplus1 it's a cheaty way to do things.. you'd be as well setting bones_mode = keep 16:05 Shara it's not always the player's fault if they died in lava 16:05 tenplus1 generally no, but once they learn they can keep items by doing so they take more risks 16:05 tenplus1 and never learn 16:06 tenplus1 then you lose progression in a game 16:06 IhrFussel You seem to ignore players who like to pour lava ov er other players...for example 16:06 lisac Hey IhrFussel 16:06 lisac Hi Shara 16:06 tenplus1 if pvp is enabled and it's ok for players to fight then it's one of those things 16:06 tenplus1 hi lisac 16:07 IhrFussel Lava does damage in any mode AFAIK 16:07 lisac tenplus1, do you know how WoW handles whether or not player can PvP? 16:07 IhrFussel Unless everything is creative 16:07 lisac Player must enable his PvP flag if he wants to kill other players 16:07 lisac and can only attack players with PvP flag enabled 16:08 tenplus1 good idea lisac 16:08 Shara Hi lisac 16:08 IhrFussel lisac, that is exactly how it works on my server 16:08 Shara Fussel, servers runnign ethereal have armour that protects against lava 16:08 lisac IhrFussel, I see. Well, it seems to be the best system 16:08 Shara running* 16:08 lisac And of course there are PvP worlds 16:08 lisac on which everyone can PvP everyone 16:09 lisac which results in level 60 people ganking level 20 people 16:09 IhrFussel Enable /pvpon disable /pvpoff ... you can only attack others if both you and them have it enabled and once enabled you have to wait 30 secs before you can disable it again...that prevents cheaky PKs 16:10 IhrFussel cheeky* 16:10 IhrFussel Or is it sneaky? Not sure :P 16:10 lisac IhrFussel, problem then becomes people making gangs 16:10 lisac ex. 10 people team up and kill others 16:10 lisac who marked PvP on 16:10 tenplus1 how about I change it so that it looks not only for "air" but a free water or lava space for bones to be set ? 16:10 lisac and can't turn it off in 30 seconds 16:11 IhrFussel tenplus1, that is how it already works by default...may_replace contains air, water and lava cause it checks for liquids ... but If trhe player dies DEEP DOWN in lava that will not help 16:12 tenplus1 that's what the change fixes 16:12 tenplus1 it will always find a spot 16:12 tenplus1 to place bones wether in air, water or lava 16:13 IhrFussel It already placed bones in lava but tell me how players are supposed to GET to the bones without being killed again? 16:13 IhrFussel In most cases they have no armor anymore...you survive 2 hits with no armor, 3 hits = dead 16:14 tenplus1 they use tactics and build a bridge to bones or hollow out lava to get to them... it's not that hard 16:15 Shara I suggest dont let armour drop 16:15 IhrFussel lisac, but those gangs also can just kill others who enabled PvP 16:15 Shara And okay... I seem to have oredetect running, but any advice on how I actually do anything with it? 16:16 Shara I see I can save some settings of my own and how to add nodes for it to include, but now how to actually detect... 16:16 IhrFussel That would be a good idea...let players keep their armor at least if you expect them to swim/maneuver in lava 16:16 IhrFussel Or make it an option 16:16 tenplus1 fussel, that's an option inside 3d_armor itself... you can keep armor when you die 16:16 tenplus1 that's how Xanadu is 16:17 Shara DL uses that option as well 16:17 tenplus1 ARMOR_DESTROY = false 16:17 IhrFussel Okay well I don't need it cause bones will not be placed in lava anymore on my server and items will also not drop inside lava 16:17 tenplus1 but I really wouldnt allow players to keep items on a survival server at all if I can help it... takes away the fun and challenge of dying 16:18 Shara tenplus1: I'll just disagree with you there when it comes to armour :P 16:18 tenplus1 heh 16:18 Shara but I guess no one can help me anyway 16:19 IhrFussel I'm not sure I agree that dieing and walking back to your stuff is an essential part of a survival server...there are wayy better ways to entertain the players honestly 16:19 lisac I see I can save some settings of my own and how to add nodes for it to include, but now how to actually detect... 16:19 tenplus1 true, giving them the ability to even walk back to bones to obtain lost items is a luxury on survival... but it's there just incase... sometimes its easier to count losses and get new items 16:19 lisac Just add a node, ex default:stone_with_mese 16:19 lisac then set it to on 16:20 lisac and then punch a node in every radius, ex if radius is 20, punch one node every 20 nodes 16:20 lisac it'll print out on chat locations of every stone_with_mese 16:21 lisac Disclaimer: I'm not in any way encouraging or supporting the practice of using oredetect. 16:21 Shara lisac: I'm only trying to get it working so I can test ways to beat it 16:21 lisac best way to beat it would be to store ore info in stone metadata 16:22 lisac and make it default:stone 16:22 Shara I don't want that though 16:22 Shara WHole enjoyment of mining for me is actually looking for the ores 16:22 Shara And I dont see why I should lose that because some people cheat 16:23 lisac Also, i doubt the removal of send_chat_message would help 16:23 lisac and if any other CSM function gets removed, especially the ones used for cheating, players will just start using the old CSM code 16:23 lisac or rather, the cheaters 16:23 lisac it's only reducing the fun for legit players looking for ways to improve gameplay 16:23 Shara What I am testing is something else completely that my server alone will control 16:23 tenplus1 Shara: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi 16:24 tenplus1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18079&hilit=csm+ore 16:24 Shara tenplus1: I don't need to see someone else's suggestions about how to beat it 16:24 tenplus1 thought it would help 16:24 Shara I need to get the mod working so I can test if what I already started working on beats it 16:24 Shara problem is, though I added nodes to it, I can't seem to make it print anything 16:25 lisac did you set it to on, Shara? 16:26 lisac .help oredetect 16:26 Megaf back 16:26 Shara I used toggle command and it said it is enabled 16:26 Shara and yes, help was first thing I checked 16:26 tenplus1 wb mf 16:26 * Megaf roars for Shara 16:26 Shara Hi Megaf 16:26 Shara I wonder if the bits of the mod I had to chop out just to make it not give errors are the issue here... 16:27 tenplus1 ????? I'm not authorised to read this forum... cant even see oredetect mod 16:27 tenplus1 what gives ?!?! 16:27 Shara I guess devs hid it based on complaints 16:28 tenplus1 ahh, good call 16:28 Shara if I run the mod as is, I get an error 16:28 tenplus1 I cant test it then 16:28 Shara well, search it and you can just get it from github 16:28 tenplus1 ;P 16:28 DS-minetest yeah, but i added "evil" label to repo 16:29 Shara Hi DS 16:29 DS-minetest Shara: what error? 16:29 DS-minetest hi Shara 16:29 DS-minetest something about an s? 16:29 Shara init.lua:157: attempt to call field 'register_on_receiving_chat_message' (a nil value) 16:29 tenplus1 wb DS 16:29 DS-minetest thx tenplus1 16:30 DS-minetest Shara: yeah, you are using not the newest dev, you can add an s to fix 16:30 lisac WTF? How did anyone think hiding the mod was a good idea? That won't prevent the ones who'd like to use it from doing so, as the git repo is still up 16:30 tenplus1 seems chest inspector loads but oredetect doesnt ?!/! 16:30 Shara DS; can you please PM me where to get it? 16:35 tenplus1 DS-minetest: oredetect aint loading 16:39 Shara anyone know how I reenable the console..? 16:43 DS-minetest i'll continue making my csm waypoints mod now that i have csm_worldname 16:43 tenplus1 k, loaded and active... if it's this fiddly to get csm mods working then no-one will really use them much 16:47 tenplus1 wb paramat 17:15 Jordach VanessaE, ShadowNinja netsplit detected 17:15 tenplus1 hi jordach 17:16 VanessaE Jordach: it's shu.inchra.chat, I think that's Nate's server 17:16 Jordach lul 17:16 tenplus1 hi Vanessa 17:17 VanessaE hi 17:22 CWz Ello VanessaE 17:23 VanessaE hi 17:53 Hijiri !tell 17:53 ShadowBot Hijiri: tell 18:05 garywhite VanessaE: I think it is shu, Nate is nowhere to be seen 18:06 ThomasMonroe gary, he is on vacation for 2 weeks 18:07 tenplus1 hi Hijiri, hi gary 18:07 garywhite hi ten, & Tre that means that we're probably gonna have 1/3 of Inchra's servers gone till then 18:07 ThomasMonroe whats the prob? 18:09 garywhite Nate's server just went down, & so nobody can fix it 18:11 Krock Fixer, I was able to add some of the requested features into the radar function today. Also increased its size to 15x15 ;) 18:11 Fixer Krock: niice 18:11 Krock further features may follow in the next days 18:12 Fixer will check i 18:12 Fixer t 18:12 Krock I just hope all the scaling settings won't mess up everything 18:12 ThomasMonroe ok gary 18:28 tenplus1 heh 18:29 tenplus1 wb fussel 18:30 IhrFussel Great my PC seems to have an issue...earlier the entire OS suddenly froze then after 3 minutes the screen turned lost any signal and I had to reboot...then the BIOS told me DISK BOOT FAILURE ... and now I booted from USB 18:31 IhrFussel Memtest says no errors with RAM, CPU temp is not normal but also not critical (55°C) 18:31 tenplus1 what Os ya got ? 18:31 IhrFussel Xubuntu 16.04 is on my HDD on the stick I got 14.04 18:32 IhrFussel And I can't seem to connect to my server via USB...it ALWAYS freeues at 84% media 18:33 IhrFussel freezes* 18:33 tenplus1 you usin gintel chipset ? 18:33 IhrFussel Intel Celeron 18:33 IhrFussel Extremely old but can it really be the CPU? 18:34 tenplus1 when you installed and run 16.04, did you go into additional drivers and enable intel microcode ? 18:34 IhrFussel I had to select "use proprietary drivers" cause it was the only option 18:35 IhrFussel I think the microcode option was enabled too 18:35 tenplus1 ah kewl 18:35 tenplus1 what else did you run/install 18:36 IhrFussel First I thought my HDD said goodbye..but the USB stick gave me the option "boot from hard disk" and it suddenly worked again ... I installed lots of software/updates, I used the OS for over 1 year 18:37 IhrFussel What I didn't try yet was booting completely from HDD again, maybe I should do that to see if the HDD is not damaged 18:38 tenplus1 give it a go fussel 18:38 tenplus1 how much mem you got on system ? 18:38 IhrFussel But what else can cause such lockups then? If it's not CPU,RAM or HDD?? The computer is very old 768 MB 18:39 shivajiva how sure are you the PSU is good? 18:40 tenplus1 hi shiva 18:40 shivajiva hi tenplus1 18:40 tenplus1 xubuntu 16.04 on a standard boot uses at least 340mb memory... could be swap usage... easy fix 18:41 IhrFussel I'll try to boot completely from HDD now...and will rejoin either when it worked or when I booted from USB again .. shivajiva I have actually pretty much NO CLUE about the PC parts I can only do what I know which is check HDD and RAM...CPU temp is fine and people online say if the temp is fine the whole CPU is mostly fine too 18:42 tenplus1 fussel, will give you a switch to apply when you reboot :P 18:49 tenplus1 wb fussel 18:50 IhrFussel Okay I guess my HDD is actually gone...when I try to choose Hard Disk as boot device in BIOS it boots directly from USB 18:50 tenplus1 ide or sata drive ? 18:50 IhrFussel Hitachi SATA I think 18:51 tenplus1 and it has enough free space on your boot partition ? 18:52 IhrFussel It has 76 GB total and it worked fine for over a year...it must be damaged now if my BIOS doesn't detect it anymore 18:53 tenplus1 time for a new drive... ebuyer.com has a sale on ssd's :D 18:53 IhrFussel The HDD is pretty old too by the way..it's from 2007 I think but hasn't been used a lot 18:54 tenplus1 even then, old mechanical hdd's have a life, especially when the internal temp is 28c or above... it damages drive 18:55 IhrFussel tenplus1, I don't want to invest in this old machine... I will look for a newer one tomorrow...doesn't need to be the fastest 18:55 tenplus1 agree'd... would be easier getting a cheap system < 100 quid to replace it with 18:55 IhrFussel 100? You mean used? 18:56 IhrFussel I think the cheapest full PCs in my electronic shop are ~ 300 18:56 tenplus1 no, I got my quad core intel setup for 99 quid... and that was free delivery... good spec 18:56 tenplus1 ebuyer.com has many deals 18:58 tenplus1 at the time I got my Lenovo quad core 2.4ghz with 4gb memory and 500gb hdd with intel gfx for 99... 18:58 tenplus1 came with kb and mouse 19:00 Krock tenplus1, sounds pretty much like what I've got here 19:00 IhrFussel tenplus1, they only ship to England haha 19:01 tenplus1 damn, thought they did worldwide 19:01 tenplus1 I thought my wee net-top was gonna bite the bullet and bought this as a replacement, then fixed net-top and still using it now :DDD 19:04 IhrFussel tenplus1, Intel Pentium is an old CPU right? 19:04 tenplus1 depends on the version... 19:04 IhrFussel J3710 19:05 tenplus1 4 core 1.6 with 2.6 burst 19:05 tenplus1 that's not too shabby... good cpi 19:05 tenplus1 *cpu 19:06 IhrFussel So I have to OC to get it to 2.6 Ghz? 19:06 tenplus1 no no.. burst = it ups the speed when it needs it 19:06 IhrFussel So 1.6 Ghz idle 19:07 tenplus1 runs at 1.6 normally, if you run a program that's cpu intensive then it rises up to 2.6 19:10 Calinou Unix Epoch 1500000000 19:10 Calinou Time (UTC) Fri Jul 14 02:40:00 2017 UTC 19:10 Calinou Time (Europe/Paris) Fri Jul 14 04:40:00 2017 CEST 19:10 Calinou for those interested ;) 19:10 tenplus1 lol, hi cal 19:11 IhrFussel Okay I can try to make an installment plan with the electronics shop tomorrow if you recommend me that one 19:11 Calinou hi 19:14 IhrFussel But does anyone here have a clue why my PC always freezes at 84% media when I try to connect to my server via USB? Is the amount of data too much to handle? Can that freeze the OS? 19:15 tenplus1 basic errors are not enough hdd space to store media, not enough physical memory to load media 19:16 IhrFussel But a USB drive has much lower data bandwith than a HDD right? I will install iotop and check 19:17 Calinou just installed this on my desktop's WSL, https://github.com/alwsl/alwsl 19:17 Calinou (to replace Ubuntu) 19:17 tenplus1 also I have a switch you can use to limit memory/vm swap usage to help 19:17 Calinou I had it on my laptop already, but now I also have it on my desktop :) 19:18 IhrFussel tenplus1, could it also help with a USB drive? I mean the installation is not persistent meaning any changes I make are gone after rebooting 19:18 tenplus1 also for such an old system I'd recommend Lubuntu 16.04... 19:18 tenplus1 no need for flash drive since you dont use swap, it's all in memory 19:19 IhrFussel But my USB drive is the only thing I have right now as OS 19:20 tenplus1 damn, kinda limited 19:24 tenplus1 there is a way to get old hdd's working again but you only have a 14.04 install media 19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: you have DISC problem 19:26 IhrFussel I will check if IO freezes my OS when I connect to my server 19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: HDD or SSD whatever 19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: make a backup fast and consider buying a replacement 19:26 tenplus1 hifixer 19:26 Fixer hi 19:27 IhrFussel Fixer, I already know that cause my PC doesn't detect my HDD anymore...but would you invest in a 15 years!! old PC? 19:27 Fixer IhrFussel: just curious... HDD? 19:27 Fixer usually SSD dies like that 19:27 IhrFussel It's an old HDD SATA 19:27 Fixer oh, ok 19:28 Fixer IhrFussel: try putting it in fridge and then try to run it (but thats kinda extreme method and urban legend) 19:28 Fixer if you don't have a backup 19:29 Fixer IhrFussel: strange periodical mouse lockups is sure sign of HDD problems, seen it. 19:29 IhrFussel I don't need a backup...all I did on the PC was pretty much playing Minetest, coding some stuff and surfing the web 19:29 tenplus1 fussel, see if you can install gnome-disk-tool fromt he flash drive and run to check the hdd smart status 19:29 Wayward_One hi all 19:29 tenplus1 https://askubuntu.com/questions/528072/how-can-i-check-the-smart-status-of-a-ssd-or-hdd-on-current-versions-of-ubuntu-1 19:29 tenplus1 hi wayward 19:29 Fixer i had the same problem with HDD, but it kinda decided to live again :D 19:29 Fixer also PATA 19:29 Fixer 120 gb one 19:30 IhrFussel Mine was older likely 76 GB 19:30 IhrFussel So minetest installed once again and I can run it just fine..I'll try singleplayer 19:32 IhrFussel All I see is blue...no freeze but also no map...is USB seriously THAT slow? 19:32 Calinou 2.5" HDDs are slow 19:33 Calinou USB 2.0 also is slow 19:33 IhrFussel It is 2.0 but is it unplaybale slow? 19:33 tenplus1 to be fair I've loaded Lubuntu from usb2 flash drive and it runs well 19:34 Wayward_One I used to play minetest just fine on an 8 Gb USB 2.0 drive 19:34 Fixer Calinou: can confirm 19:34 Fixer insanely fuck-fuck-fuck slow 19:34 Wayward_One that's all i had for a while lol 19:34 IhrFussel Ok I will try to run with --info and --verbose 19:34 Fixer Calinou: i have usb one for offline backups 19:34 Fixer damn slow 19:35 paramat Shara shivajiva tenplus1 VanessaE do you want item and node definition lookups disabled by default in CSM? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5930 please add your opinions 19:37 tenplus1 done :P 19:37 paramat (i think they should be) 19:38 paramat thanks 19:41 paramat oh i see many of you have thumb-uped already, somehow i often ignore emoticons 19:42 tenplus1 emoticons are important... keep checking :DDDD 19:43 Calinou IhrFussel: is the HDD 2.5" or 3.5"? 19:43 Calinou note, pretty much all external HDDs are 5400 rpm, which is quite slower than 7200 rpm 19:46 IhrFussel Calinou, I have no access to my HDD anymore it likely died...not sure what it was Hitachi SATA is all I remember 19:46 IhrFussel It was 5400 rpm IIRC 19:46 paramat hehe they are 19:46 tenplus1 fussel, did you try installing gnome-disk-utility and see if it mounts hdd ? 19:51 IhrFussel tenplus1, gneome-disk-image-mounter? Or gnome-disks? 19:51 tenplus1 gnome disks 19:52 tenplus1 it'll let you select your HDD and check S.M.A.R.T status to see if it's failing 19:53 IhrFussel Nope it's not listed there 19:54 tenplus1 might be too old a distro version to have it in the repository 19:54 IhrFussel I mean my HDD is not listed ... Only CD/DVE Drive and my stick and 909 MB Loop Device 19:54 IhrFussel DVD* 19:55 IhrFussel And my stick is dev/sda1 which was my HDD before 19:55 tenplus1 yeah, sounds like it's life has ended :PP 20:03 tenplus1 nite folks 20:31 sofar paramat: FYI I'm not interested in undermining the efforts to restrict CSM 20:32 sofar paramat: I'm attempting to promote defense in depth 20:32 sofar CSM is just one problem, you don't solve the hacker problem by eliminating it 20:32 nerzhul sofar, +1 20:32 sofar sure it'll be a lot harder, then people have to pay 5$ to get the hacked client from that one guy 20:33 sofar if you have issues with people discussing defense in depth, you shouldn't work on software 20:34 sofar there are so many untapped benefits from CSM... I'd hate to lose it before it becomes useful 20:34 sofar paramat: that's why I made a new discussion in the forum, separately 20:35 sofar sure you can join the discussions, but then it's just the same discussion in 2 places 20:35 sofar and the whole defense in depth aspect will be entirely forgotten like it already is forgotten in that github thread 20:35 sofar it would even be offtopic on the github thread if you ask me 20:49 paramat ok, i don't want to eliminate CSM and i don't mind discussion of defense in depth 20:50 paramat i'll make sure to not repeat the same stuff in the thread, as you request 20:51 rubenwardy about to buy a dedi 20:51 rubenwardy i3-2130/3240 2 cores / 4 threads 3.4GHz+ 8GB 2TB 100Mbps 20:58 paramat \O/ 20:58 shivajiva hey sofar, next time you're in Europe you should drop in and chill with me for a few hours, I could buy you dinner. I'd like to understand the whole defense aspect myself. :) 20:59 rubenwardy sofar++ 21:01 Shara count me in please 21:01 shivajiva sure :D 21:03 Shara I'm all for better defence in any way posible, but I am not seeing it, and I am not seeing any committment from devs to prioritise it. 21:13 rubenwardy Minetest con! woo! 21:14 sofar heh, minetest con 21:14 rubenwardy more meet up than con 21:15 sofar so, just to paraphrase what defense in depth is, for those that do not know 21:15 rubenwardy unless people would feel like dressing up or whatever people do at cons 21:15 sofar suppose you have something valuable (money) and someone wants to steal it (thief) 21:16 sofar defense in depth is the approach that you should consider all possible opportunities to make things more difficult 21:16 sofar so e.g. don't hold money 21:16 sofar put a lock on your wallet 21:16 sofar extra bolts on the door 21:16 sofar move the wallet around 21:16 sofar etc 21:17 sofar in the case of cheaters, you can apply the same principle 21:18 sofar removing or restricting CSM is one way 21:18 sofar but there are far more possible tactics you can take that will be beneficial 21:18 sofar and defeating oredetect may make the game more interesting 21:18 sofar just look at Duane's solution 21:18 Shara sofar: problem is, CSM is a tiny tiny little small teeny part of the issue for me 21:19 sofar that's my point 21:19 sofar I entirely agree with that 21:19 Shara can we get some serious committment from devs to address this then? 21:19 sofar it still doesn't fix hack flyers and noclippers 21:19 sofar tbh I don't even know what other problems exist 21:20 sofar lag-wall-breakers? 21:20 sofar people defeating node protections? 21:20 sofar chat flooders? 21:20 sofar ban evaders? 21:22 shivajiva could there be a commitment to validating physics server side so players can't cheat, I realise that's not a trivial thing ofc 21:22 Shara damage evading 21:22 Shara I had someone who did not take damage wandering round spawn on a PVP server killing players 21:22 sofar or even damage hacks like 1000 damange 21:23 sofar all of that has nothing to do with CSM 21:23 sofar we need defenses against that 21:23 Shara Yup, which is why I do not want this turned into just a CSM issue 21:23 Shara CSM IS an issue, but only one 21:24 Shara And as I have said in my comments on github, I dont mind how this is solved, I just want actual steps toward solving it 21:24 sofar I may be an idealist, but I am convinced that we can solve all of these issues without killing CSM 21:24 sofar est31's noclip code was a good start, too bad he didn't finish 21:25 Shara sofar: is this something you are willing to work on? It would certainly be appreciated by many server owners if so 21:25 sofar I'm not doing any minetest coding atm 21:26 sofar interested? absolutely 21:26 sofar time? none :) 21:26 Shara that seems to be the common answer sadly 21:26 sofar afk 21:26 shivajiva so as server admins we need control of CSM to allow the defense mechanisms to be developed 21:26 Shara it's great for devs to be interested, but we need devs who will actually do something 21:27 Shara I fully appreciate the time element, but that doesn't lessen the need 21:32 nerzhul Shara, damage evading is not possible 21:36 Shara nerzhul: my own eyes tell me otherwise 21:36 Shara I even tried to kill that player using my admin weapon. Did not die. 21:36 nerzhul evading damage is possible in only one case: falling 21:36 nerzhul other damages are handled server side 21:37 nerzhul if player doesn't take damage it means you have a bug in your mod 21:37 Shara which mod? 21:37 Shara No mod controls this. 21:38 Shara multiple people on my server verified this 21:39 Shara maybe someone else remembers, wasn't this one of the things covered by the minehacker client? 22:01 Fixer this needs investigation 22:07 elinor Fire damage can be avoided too. 22:44 octacian Shara: I am positive that non-fall damage evasion is not possible 22:44 octacian As nerzhul said, all other damage is handled entirely server-side 22:44 Hijiri octacian: what about damage per second nodes 22:44 octacian Although it might be possible to make the client itself not respond to the damage updates sent by the server.... huh 22:45 Shara which is of course what is happening 22:45 octacian Hijiri: Nope. That's server-side, unless what I mentioned above is true... 22:45 Hijiri octacian: a client could fake being on a nearby non-damaging node 22:45 * octacian has to work on his hacked client now, it's getting outdated :P 22:45 octacian half-jk 22:45 nerzhul Hijiri, the DPS node damage evasion is fixed in 0.4.16 i patched core against this 22:45 Shara from what I recall, minehacker did it, and people had trouble accepting it was possible then as well 22:45 octacian Hijiri: That's true. For that matter, the client could fake never moving from a single spawn position 22:45 Hijiri nerzhul: you could evade by reporting a wrong position 22:46 Hijiri octacian: yeah but then you would get anticheated when you try to interact 22:46 nerzhul if you report a wrong position server cannot help you 22:46 octacian Shara: wuhh? I used to have a copy of minehacker, maybe I'll look into this... 22:46 nerzhul you are not at the right position, you cannot verify this server side it's a fact 22:46 Shara I dont recall if it was about position or not 22:46 Hijiri nerzhul: I guess so, as far as the server is concerned you are at the fake position 22:46 nerzhul but node dps damage in 0.4.15 is client side, in 0.4.16 it's server side 22:46 Shara I am travelling and dont have the cood to look at 22:47 nerzhul fake position means many things will not be right, client side and server side you cannot prevent teleport 22:47 Shara this happened on a 0.4.16 server anyway 22:47 octacian My internet just entirely stopped working for a second... 22:47 Shara stable, not dev 22:47 Hijiri well, server side player physics would prevent it 22:48 octacian Client-prediction and server-side reconciliation is the way to go 22:48 Hijiri the problem with anticheat right now is that the anticheat system doesn't know enough about how the player is supposed to move, e.g. speed mod 22:48 nerzhul server side physics cannot be possible 22:48 octacian Entirely server-side physics would be wayyy too laggy 22:48 Shara Any progress at all would be welcome 22:48 octacian True. 22:48 nerzhul it's possible in a static map, not a voxel map 22:48 Hijiri I mean server sided with client prediction 22:48 nerzhul i tested falling damage prevention it's just ... nearly impossible as lag is not predictible and there is false positives eerytime 22:49 Hijiri even with voxels the map is mostly static 22:49 Hijiri it's ok if the client gets rubberbanded occasionally 22:49 Shara I dont care much about falling damage to be honest 22:49 octacian I wonder how exactly the minehacker damage evasion worked though... I'm going to guess that the guy simply made the client ignore the fact that it had taken damage, therefore no death screen and no healthbar chang3 22:49 nerzhul it's not as static as a plane you have in a class map 22:49 Shara I do care about fly/noclip and damage 22:49 nerzhul it's far more complicated to calculate as you have many planes 22:49 Shara octacian: from what I recall, it just deleted some code... but I might be wrong 22:50 Hijiri You would just calculate player movement how it's done on the client right now 22:50 octacian Shara: Probably true. Does anyone here happen to have a copy of minehacker? 22:50 Hijiri except maybe with some delay to account for lag 22:50 nerzhul octacian, no death screen i think too, but server ignore events from dead players normally 22:50 octacian nerzhul: Yes, that's what doesn't make sense to me... 22:50 nerzhul maybe some packets doesn't take account about that 22:50 nerzhul but i'm pretty sure movement ignore 22:51 octacian It could be possible that he simple skipped the death screen and updated the position of the player back to pre-death position afterword? Not very familiar with the client codebase though 22:52 nerzhul maybe 22:53 Shara I have a copy, but not here 22:53 nerzhul see you later 22:54 octacian I have a copy somewhere, gotta dig it up 22:54 octacian Was hoping I wouldn't have to xD 22:54 Shara I can check when I am home next week 22:54 Shara I am jsut going from memory of what others said at the time though, since I never did dig into the code much 22:54 Shara I only got hold of a copy to pass on to the devs back then 22:55 Shara (did not pay of course) 22:55 octacian How's that? 22:55 Shara Someone who paid for it owed me a favour :) 22:55 octacian Got your copy from someone who did pay, or what? 22:55 octacian Ah, I see 22:55 octacian I got a copy when he had it on sale for $5 22:55 Shara I would never pay for something liek that 22:55 Shara like* 22:56 octacian heh, I rarely would, however, this was an exception for several reasons 22:57 Shara I was hoping the devs would use it to look into ways to stop such cheats 22:57 Shara I think it did lead to preventing people avoiding death by drowning at least 23:00 Calinou I got a copy when he had it on sale for $5 23:00 Calinou meh, you shouldn't have given money to bad people 23:01 Calinou creating a cheat client does not make you deserve any money for it 23:01 octacian heh, As I said, this was an exception for several reasons 23:02 octacian And BTW, if anyone happens to want a copy, just ask :P 23:02 Shara please limit distribution to those you can reasonably expect to be interested in fixing issues... 23:03 octacian Yes, I'm aware. 23:03 octacian Such a client shouldn't be free distribution considering some of the stuff it does :/ 23:03 Shara I have seen worse, but yes... 23:03 Shara Or well, might depend on your opinion of worse 23:04 octacian ugh, Well, so much for that guy promising to fix some of the issues he exposed with Minehacker :rofl: 23:04 Shara The "fake WE" client was more worrying to me, but I think the creator never distributed it 23:04 octacian That would be very worrying... 23:04 octacian I didn't actually work, did it? 23:05 Shara It worked 23:05 Shara He demoed it for me 23:05 octacian O_o 23:05 Shara But it couldn't bypass protection 23:05 octacian Ah, I see. 23:05 octacian I suppose it involved rapidly breaking or placing the needed blocks client-side? 23:05 Shara I had some ideas but never tried to reproduce it 23:06 octacian Not worth spending time on IMO 23:06 Shara Same thought 23:06 Shara as interesting as I find such things, I am interested in the fixes for them, not in copying them 23:07 Shara but it was a bit of an eye opener 23:13 elinor You can't respawn and teleport to the previous position unless the previous position is very close to the position where you spawn. 23:13 octacian Why's that? 23:15 Hijiri movement anticheat? 23:15 elinor Because Server::process_PlayerPos checks how fast you are moving and sends your position back if you are moving too fast. 23:15 elinor That incidentally prevents not just walking too fast but also teleporting too far away. 23:16 octacian You could ignore that 23:16 Hijiri the server won't send you the blocks around you though 23:16 Hijiri because it has your position at the spawn loc 23:16 elinor The server won't ignore it though... 23:16 elinor And the server won't let you interact from far away. 23:16 octacian hmm, I see 23:16 Hijiri and since anticheat is enabled you won't be able to pick up your items 23:16 octacian You could send the new position in steps 23:16 elinor That too. 23:17 Hijiri octacian: you could, I'm guessing minehacker does that, assuming it's the one that claimed to bypass speed anticheat? 23:17 elinor Hijiri: Unless the items are in bones. 23:17 elinor Doing things with inventories when dead is something that's not prevented currently. 23:18 Hijiri oh, didn't know 23:18 Hijiri at least that could be prevented server side though 23:18 Hijiri if someone fixes it 23:18 elinor octacian: You can send the new positions in steps, but the server cares about the time. It will take you just as much time to teleport to the previous location as it would take to walk back there, minus some tolerance. 23:19 Hijiri well, the steps can go through walls 23:19 Hijiri and you don't have to jump around 23:19 Hijiri so it would probably take less time 23:19 Hijiri oh yeah also water movement 23:19 Hijiri you can ignore liquid slowdown 23:20 elinor Yeah. 23:21 Shara Hijiri: I'm not sure if it could bypass speed anticheat... from what I recall, the server it showed in the video for that did not have anti cheat enabled... 23:22 Hijiri oh 23:22 Shara Doesn't mean it didn't do it or that it's not possible though, just that the video I saw certainly wasn't proof 23:22 Shara I really should have tested it properly before 23:23 elinor I cannot think of any way it would be possible... 23:24 elinor Same for ignoring weapon damage or node damage, assuming there are no bugs in the mods. 23:25 Shara I dont see how it could have been a mod in the case of my server 23:25 Shara especially since minehacker claimed to manage this, and I seem to recall it being confirmed 23:26 Shara but if someone can point out it's a mod I run and it can be fixed that way, I'd be equally happy. I just want it fixed 23:26 Hijiri I thought minehacker came out before CSM was a thing 23:26 Hijiri oh, you mean on the server 23:26 octacian Hijiri: BTW though, it did :P 23:26 elinor To manage interacting with things after being killed by weapon or node damage? 23:27 Shara CSM is only a small part of why server owners are not all happy 23:27 Shara elinor: the exact issue in this case was a player that simply did not take damage or diem even when hit with an admin weapon that should one hit kill any player 23:27 Shara die* 23:28 Shara They were reported by multiple players, and I joined myself to verify it before banning them 23:28 Hijiri I don't think that should be possible 23:29 elinor The WorldEdit bug was fixed on that server? 23:29 Shara well, it happened 23:29 Shara Yes, that was fixed 23:29 Hijiri can clients send negative damage? 23:29 Hijiri like whenc lients send fall damage 23:29 elinor Nope, Hijiri. 23:29 Shara I updated WE there myself 23:30 elinor The damage is a u8, so it can't be negative. 23:30 elinor (See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/network/serverpackethandler.cpp#L1090...) 23:30 Hijiri alright 23:33 elinor Shara: Any items on your server that can prevent damage or that could explain this in some way if the player had had access to them? Maybe even just food... 23:33 Shara Food couldn't counteract a one hit kill admin weapon 23:34 Shara even admin armour doesn't protect against that thing 23:34 tumeninodes Hi all. Hey, does anyone know if duane ever pops in here? 23:34 Shara tumeninodes: not that I know, but I don't knwo his IRC name 23:34 Fixer nice to see a discussion about cheat prevention, i've opened an issue about this long ago here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3822 23:34 Shara know* 23:35 elinor Could be a backdoor inserted before the WE bug was fixed. Unlikely, but... 23:35 tumeninodes hmmm, actually I don't recall seeing one for him 23:35 Shara elinor: I did a full check for elevated privs after fixing WE, and I think the player was a first time join as well 23:36 tumeninodes Fixer, cheat prevention will always be an endless battle though 23:37 elinor How did the admin weapon kill players? 23:37 Shara elinor: as I have said, travelling at the moment and dont have the key for that server on this machine.. so I cant double check it 23:37 Shara I think it just deals ridiculously high damage though 23:38 Shara Hmm, actually, let me check if the mod is on github 23:39 elinor Okay. 23:40 tumeninodes !tell octacian I like your back button idea very much. Mostly for embarrassing reasons :P 23:40 ShadowBot tumeninodes: O.K. 23:41 octacian tumeninodes: You could've just mentioned me :P 23:41 Shara elinor: Yup, just stupid high damage 23:41 tumeninodes oh duh 23:41 Shara damage_groups = {fleshy = 700, snappy=700, choppy=700, crumbly=700}, 23:41 tumeninodes sorry 23:41 Shara It's a "destroy absolutely everything and anyone" tool 23:42 Shara The player was wearing armour, but there is no way armour would have stopped it. 23:43 elinor I'm puzzled. 23:43 Shara You and me both 23:44 Shara I also tested with a normal sword first 23:44 Shara And hit them enough times that they should have died from that 23:44 Shara The player made no attempt to dodge 23:45 octacian tumeninodes: heh, it's OK 23:45 octacian FYI, I haven't been able to work on that much recently 23:46 octacian Been working on a minigames server 23:46 octacian Then I got other important projects as well 23:46 Shara But yes, it's not like I am passing on some secondhand account that I didn't verify myself. 23:46 Shara Though it is the only confirmed case I had of damage avoidance so far 23:47 tumeninodes keeping busy is good octatian, keeps one out of trouble 23:47 Shara (not the only reported one) 23:48 Shara But sleep for me. If anyone can find a mod related suggestion, would be more than happy, I just can't see how it is a mod 23:48 Shara Good night 23:48 tumeninodes night Shara 23:48 octacian Night :D 23:49 tumeninodes octacian: you're a player and a talented coder, I will ask you :P 23:50 octacian heh, OK :D 23:50 tumeninodes What are your thoughts on trying to distribute ores based on biomes? 23:51 tumeninodes coupled with duane's no ores approach 23:52 octacian duane's no ores? 23:53 octacian Never heard of that. 23:53 tumeninodes https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18063 23:53 octacian I know there's already an API to distribute decorations depending on biomes, but I've never thought about ores 23:55 tumeninodes well, sofar had started a good thread related to the ore detect CSM but, it does not seem to be going as he had planned 23:55 octacian I don't like the idea of no ores whatsoever TBH 23:56 octacian Not only would it be boring, but ores aren't invisible in IRL mines 23:56 octacian Sure, it's sorta luck to hit a particular ore vein, but the vein itself isn't invisible and there will also be traces leading up to the vein 23:56 tumeninodes well, that's fine too, everyone feels diff about things. But what about a distribution system based on biomes? Dumb idea? 23:57 octacian Amazing idea :D 23:57 octacian paramat: ^ 23:57 octacian Wait. 23:57 octacian Already implemented AFAIK. 23:57 tumeninodes ? is it? 23:58 octacian However, it only applies to ores with the type vein 23:58 octacian https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4436 23:58 octacian paramat: Could biome-specific ores be expanded to non-vein types? 23:58 tumeninodes just make them all vein type :D 23:59 octacian That's a possibility, but IMO it'd be better if it was simply supported for all types of ores 23:59 tumeninodes yes 23:59 tumeninodes well, we definitely have enough biomes ha 23:59 octacian Plus, vein ore generation is apparently "~200x more 23:59 octacian computationally expensive than any other ore."