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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-06-08

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Time Nick Message
00:16 dtscode joined #minetest-hub
00:22 VanessaE IhrFussel: have you filed a bug report?
00:30 IhrFussel VanessaE, Yes and it got the label "unconfirmed bug" which is why I linked 3 different videos now
00:31 VanessaE "unconfirmed" means none of the core developers have been able to reproduce it (or perhaps no one has tried).
00:31 VanessaE did you link your new video to the bug report?
00:32 IhrFussel Yes and I added the steps to reproduce it as comment + I linked to 3 videos..one shows the glitch when standing still on the ground, the other shows standing still mid air and the 3rd one shows that it seems to be fixed when I stand at walls
00:34 IhrFussel Yes I linked the recent video too now and I hope at least 1 core dev will find the time to try it out themselves (it doesn't likely happen to most since their view range is much higher than 20-30)
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09:03 paramat joined #minetest-hub
09:08 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
09:08 tenplus1 hi folks
09:18 DS-minetest hi tenplus1
09:19 tenplus1 heyas :P
09:20 tenplus1 http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/3​d9f88f9-laziness-here-i-come.jpg
09:33 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
09:34 tenplus1 hi cx384
09:34 cx384 hello tenplus1
09:44 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
09:45 tenplus1 hi fixer
10:12 Amaz Morning all :)
10:12 tenplus1 hi Amaz
10:12 Amaz Hello ten!
10:13 Calinou hi :)
10:13 tenplus1 hi Cal
10:15 tenplus1 wait, what ???  I got one approval and it was immediately removed ?!?!?! https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1543
10:17 Amaz Is it because Zeno isn't a MTG dev??
10:17 Amaz (I don't really follow MTG, so I may be completely wrong.)
10:18 tenplus1 weird, if he wasn't how could he one approval it
10:18 Amaz http://irc.minetest.net/minet​est-dev/2017-06-07#i_4963824
10:19 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
10:19 tenplus1 hi Darcidride
10:19 tenplus1 ouch, he broke da rules
10:19 Amaz I think that he has access to the repository, because he's a Minetest dev, but he's not technically a _game dev, and therefore, while he can add labels and such, he's not allowed to...
10:19 Amaz Complicated :P
10:20 Darcidride Hi everyone
10:20 Amaz Hi Darcidride :)
10:22 tenplus1 am kinda glad I dont hang out in -dev if that's the sorta thing that happens
10:22 tenplus1 I just wanna make the game better
10:24 paramat he just added an approval by mistake :]
10:25 tenplus1 hi paramat
10:26 tenplus1 cant we just add the 'creative' privelage already... many server owners would like such a feature and it gives a damn good use to the minetest.is_creative(name)  <--- nothing uses name at the moment
10:26 Shara I don't understand why it ever wasn't there :P
10:26 tenplus1 we use it on Xanadu to reward builders and it works really well
10:27 Shara It's such a basic thing, and quite vital in my opinion
10:27 Shara We use it on DL as well.
10:27 tenplus1 hi Shara
10:28 Shara Hi :)
10:33 paramat i'll look at it again, sorry for slow mtg dev, sofar is not around
10:33 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1543
10:37 paramat is it tested?
10:37 tenplus1 yes, I've been running it on Xanadu
10:37 tenplus1 no problems
10:37 Shara Darklands also uses what might be a slightly older version
10:38 tenplus1 I can issue 'creative' priv to anyone giving them access to creative inventory and unlimited placement
10:38 Shara Again, no issues
10:38 paramat and it looks like you addressed sofar's issue?
10:38 tenplus1 what issue ?
10:38 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/1543#issuecomment-277432165
10:39 tenplus1 ah yes... when they sign on with creative the get the appropriate inventory
10:40 paramat the priv code is in creative mod so i assume this is what he was asking for?
10:40 tenplus1 yes
10:40 tenplus1 everything in creative mod
10:40 paramat =1
10:40 paramat +1
10:40 paramat hehe
10:40 tenplus1 it only adds 1 priv and amends 1 line.. it's not a huge pull
10:40 tenplus1 but gives a ton of possibility for survival servers
10:41 paramat the support from server owners means i +1, it's a good idea anyway
10:41 paramat sorry it took a while
10:41 tenplus1 thx dude, appreciated
10:42 paramat sofar seems +0.5
10:43 tenplus1 1.5 is good enough :P
10:43 paramat for you heh
10:43 tenplus1 :) hopefully sfan5 will reconsider and re-add approval  *hope*
10:43 tenplus1 :3
10:43 Shara I almost abandoned the idea of DL when I found this priv was missing.... So I was just glad Ten had a mod for it
10:46 paramat ah just saw the list of thumbs-up emoticons, missed that
10:47 tenplus1 :P
10:52 red-NaN tenplus1, we don't use math.round for PR apporval counts
10:52 red-NaN we use math.floor
10:52 tenplus1 *cough*   math.round(pr + 0.5)
10:53 red-NaN math.ceil(pr)
10:53 tenplus1 ehehehe
10:56 tenplus1 nom time :PP brb
11:07 Fixer tenplus1: Zeno is not mtg dev, that was approved by mistake
11:07 tenplus1 is ok
11:16 NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub
11:16 tenplus1 hi nathan
11:16 NathanS21 hi tenplus1
11:30 IhrFussel tenplus1, not sure what it's like in MTG but in the Minetest repository even I can add approvals...shouldn't there be a way to prevent regular/non-member users from approving?
11:31 tenplus1 I kinda thoguht if you were a dev in one project it would only allow you to do things to that one
11:33 IhrFussel IIRC minetest and minetest_game aren't really separated but celeron55 said he would look into splitting them up in a few weeks when he finds more time
11:34 red-NaN IhrFussel, github approvals != merge approvals
11:34 red-NaN plus github approvals by a non-team member show up in a diffrent colour
11:35 IhrFussel red-NaN, yes but why can regular users even aprrove then? Is there no setting to just allow it for members/devs?
11:35 red-NaN to stop "+1" spam
11:35 red-NaN and it's a larger sign of support then just adding a "+1" to the orginal post
11:36 IhrFussel I understand the purpose of the feature, but in MT at least core devs don't want to see regular users approving
11:37 red-NaN it's not a issue since it's evident that the approval is from a community member not a dev
11:37 red-NaN I don't think it even makes the PR show up as "approved"
11:37 IhrFussel Not exactly an issue but I saw a non-member approval somewhere and they were told to remove it cause it "confuses the core devs"
11:38 red-NaN oh that was a diffrent issue
11:38 red-NaN are you talking about the incident yesterday on -dev?
11:38 red-NaN that was a minetest core dev accidently adding a "one approval" lable to a minetest game PR
11:39 IhrFussel Nope what I mean was a few weeks ago...I also read the stuff about Zeno but I wasn't sure if he's a "regular user" in MTG
11:39 red-NaN minetest uses lables to track the number of approvals
11:39 * red-NaN shrugs
11:40 tenplus1 hi red
11:40 IhrFussel Yes I know they use labels...but still they don't want regulars to add approvals cause of confusion so I wonder why they don't simply restrict the approvals (if it's possible)
11:40 red-NaN well an approval is meant to indicate that you read the source code and it looks good to you, not just agreeing with the idea
11:41 tenplus1 +1
11:41 red-NaN well maybe they could restrict approvals to contributers then
11:41 red-NaN that will still allow people to help devs with code review
11:43 IhrFussel Aren't regulars even "allowed" to review source code? I think I only saw core devs and sometimes contributors doing it
11:43 IhrFussel Are regulars*
11:44 red-NaN well I would say anyone is
11:44 tenplus1 hi lumidify
11:44 Shara Telling people they can't comment about the code would be silly.
11:44 red-NaN but I can't say that everyones review will be taken seriouslu
11:44 lumidify Hi tenplus1
11:45 red-NaN seriously*
11:45 tenplus1 comments and thumbs up are welcome by all...
11:45 tenplus1 approvals by those who can incorporate changes into mt and has looked at code
11:45 Shara Whether or not devs pay any attention to a certain person's reviews or opinions though is going to depend on the person and the quality of what they produce
11:47 Shara If someone hasn't got  a clue about code, then them commenting on it won't help anyone much. But clearly some contributors do have a clue, or they wouldn't contribute so much
11:47 IhrFussel RE: Shadow glitch ... I left yesterday with the glitch happening...and guess what? It persists...I have one more suspicious candidate for the cause "wieldview" mod but why would it cause such a major glitch?
11:55 tenplus1 wieldview only updates the textures for the player model, it shouldnt affect lighting or shadows
11:55 IhrFussel Nope, it still happens...then I have no clue must be in-engine likely...EVEN after server restart it glitches...
11:56 tenplus1 lemmie run a session and see if it happens
11:56 IhrFussel And it stops glitching as soon as I get close to some kind of wall...that sounds like a collision detection problem
11:58 IhrFussel tenplus1, make sure your view range is 20-30 and you fly into ungenerated map areas (that's how it happens most relaibly)
11:58 IhrFussel reliably*
11:59 tenplus1 seems ok here, using wieldview as well.... do you have any voxelmanip mods running ?
12:00 IhrFussel mesecons, nether and mobs
12:00 IhrFussel I grepped for "voxelmanip"
12:01 tenplus1 light levels for wielditem's brightness reset to 0 in unloaded/ignored areas of map
12:01 tenplus1 some voxelmanip mods can mess with light levels in the map
12:03 tenplus1 try a fresh world with all mods disabled (except 3d_armor and wieldview) and see if it still happens
12:03 tenplus1 I only see wielditem darken when I fly into a new area and once it generates it's back to normal...
12:04 IhrFussel tenplus1, you need to watch it a little longer it only happens every 10 - 20 secs once (the blinking)
12:05 IhrFussel I removed mobs, nether and mesecons...still the same
12:05 tenplus1 I've had it running 10 mins now and nothing out of the ordinart
12:05 tenplus1 what gfx card u got ?
12:05 IhrFussel Nvidia GeForce FX 5200
12:06 IhrFussel But why would it be a GPU issue if it only happens in certain situations on the map?
12:07 IhrFussel I will try to run the server with no mods enabled (except for areas)
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12:07 tenplus1 hi talus
12:10 IhrFussel NOPE, it still happens with NO custom mods enabled...that confirms to me it's an engine bug
12:11 tenplus1 is this on a fresh world ?????
12:11 tenplus1 has to be a new world otherwise voxelmanip light issues can still affect it
12:20 IhrFussel No it was on my server world...can't reproduce it in local game right now, but I know for a fact that the exact same glitch didn't happen in 0.4.15-dev before May
12:21 tenplus1 it definitely sounds like voxelmanip lighting issues...  I run caverealms_lite on Xanadu and it has the odd light issue when standing in certain spots
12:22 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
12:22 tenplus1 hi RobbieF
12:22 RobbieF Tenplus1 nice to see you!
12:22 tenplus1 hows things ?
12:22 Calinou hi RobbieF :)
12:23 RobbieF Doing great--a busy couple days (a little too busy) but doing well thanks. How about you?
12:23 RobbieF Hi Calinou! Been a while. How you been?
12:23 tenplus1 tinkering with lucky blocks :P
12:23 tenplus1 thinking of new one's to add
12:23 IhrFussel STOP it happened in singleplayer! Engine bug confirmed
12:23 Calinou RobbieF: currently in an internship, but it's going meh so far, I feel
12:23 Calinou IhrFussel: Half-Life Bug confirmed?
12:23 Calinou ;)
12:24 RobbieF aww... well, make the best of it, as well as you can Calinou.
12:28 IhrFussel tenplus1, you need to fly FAST through ungenerated areas with noclip ENABLED...that's when it happens...also it barely blinks in singleplayer because there is no lag
12:29 tenplus1 that's exactly what I've been doing and it only blinks because player is standing inside ignore block with light levels of 0 before it's generated
12:29 IhrFussel Noo I will upload another video of singleplayer showing that I stand in midair for 1 minute and it continues to blink sometimes
12:29 tenplus1 it doesnt happen when standing still UNLESS inside of a glitched light area from a voxelmanip issue
12:30 tenplus1 I was flying for 10 whole minutes and never happened once
12:30 tenplus1 while standing still
12:30 IhrFussel Is your view range at 20?
12:30 tenplus1 yeh
12:30 IhrFussel I will show you the video as soon as it finished rendering
12:31 tenplus1 ok
12:31 IhrFussel But you'll need to watch VERY closely as it only happens for ~ 0.1 secs (since there is no serverstep lag in SP)
12:32 tenplus1 I tested in a local server, not singleplayer
12:32 IhrFussel I'll watch it first and then tell you a timestamp to skip to
12:33 IhrFussel It doesn't matter..it happens on my 0.4.16-dev server and in singleplayer
12:33 paramat so still happens in singleplayer with no mods?
12:33 IhrFussel Yes
12:33 paramat weird
12:33 tenplus1 gotta test it in a fresh world tho
12:34 IhrFussel But the time it gets dark DEPENDS on the server_step setting
12:34 IhrFussel It was a new world
12:34 tenplus1 kk
12:35 IhrFussel http://ihrfussels-server.tk/mt4.mp4 @ 21 secs
12:39 tenplus1 it happens every 20 seconds or
12:40 tenplus1 and that was on a fresh world with no mods ?
12:41 IhrFussel Just the default mods AFAIK
12:41 IhrFussel Yep minetest_game only
12:42 IhrFussel I could try to play without MTG
12:42 tenplus1 does it happen when you increase view range to 40 ?
12:44 IhrFussel Right now it didn't stop to glitch but increasing viewing range to 250 doesn't fix a *current* glitch at least
12:47 tenplus1 do you have shaders on or off?
12:47 IhrFussel Off
12:47 tenplus1 same...  it really doesnt happen here...
12:47 tenplus1 dunno if running old opengl might have issue
12:49 IhrFussel That makes no sense, why does it stop glitching at walls?
12:50 yusf[m] joined #minetest-hub
12:50 IhrFussel An OpenGL issue would likely be persistent and not depend on ingame pos, OpenGL doesn't even know what an ingame pos is
12:54 IhrFussel It MAY be possible that my computer is just old enough to NOTICE the bug...but a bug is still a bug and it prevents me from enjopying the game properly since it makes me STOP every time it happens
12:54 tenplus1 can you show your minetest.conf file in a pastebin link plz
12:56 IhrFussel Sure...I don't think it's related though since my local game and my server use completely different config files
12:56 red-NaN when did this bug start appearing?
12:59 IhrFussel In 0.4.15-dev...I think between Apr and May
12:59 IhrFussel https://pastebin.com/q6iiftsA
12:59 Stone-Talus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwsem2Lxvb0
13:00 IhrFussel And yes I have the view range, max saved blocks etc at very low values but those never caused issues before
13:01 red-NaN well if you could try and bisect it
13:01 red-NaN if you can figure out the approximate time at which it apperead and/or have a lot of free time
13:03 IhrFussel IF it is caused by a mistake in a PR then it's likely one about lighting/collision detection or mapblock save/load changes..I can try to filter those out a bit later
13:04 tenplus1 server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 20  ..  could be unloading every 20 seconds and renewing light levels for your sword
13:04 tenplus1 change to 30 and see if it happens every 30 seconds
13:05 IhrFussel tenplus1, that's the local game config..server says server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 300
13:06 IhrFussel But I could try to increase all CLIENT settings and see if it still happens
13:06 tenplus1 check that one 1st...
13:08 IhrFussel 30 is too little to notice a difference..I'll try 60
13:09 tenplus1 in the mp3 you showed it would darken every 20 seconds...  setting to 30 would let you see at least if it happened every 30
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13:11 tenplus1 hi octacian
13:11 octacian hey tenplus1 :D
13:12 IhrFussel Nope still happens every 10 - 20 secs
13:13 tenplus1 only other 20 second time I see is the server_map_save_interval = 20 ... but that shouldnt affect light levels
13:14 IhrFussel I set that to 60...still every 10 - 20 secs
13:16 red-NaN could you see if fps_max has an effect on it?
13:17 IhrFussel I can say so much: The time it REMAINS black depends on the LOAD...if I fly into heavy terrain it stays black for longer...yes I'll try that red-NaN
13:18 red-NaN huh the craftitem being black inside unload terrain is normal enough
13:18 red-NaN but you need noclip for that to happen
13:20 IhrFussel red-NaN, yes the glitch is triggered by flying through nodes with noclip it seems...and then sometimes it just seems to THINK that you're still underground or inside a solid node every few secs
13:23 IhrFussel And it stops glitching as soon as you're NEAR solid nodes (like a wall)
13:23 tenplus1 is on_flood set for 'air' ?
13:24 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
13:24 tenplus1 hi twoelk
13:24 twoelk hi :-)
13:25 octacian_ joined #minetest-hub
13:29 paramat joined #minetest-hub
13:29 tenplus1 wb paramat
13:31 paramat ^ please disable auto greetings for me
13:31 tenplus1 :P
13:36 paramat Ihrfussel 'client_mapblock_limit = 15' this is far too low, not sure if it affects bug though
13:36 IhrFussel paramat, I increased it now to 30 and will see if it helps with the glitch
13:37 paramat 30 is still far too low :]
13:38 tenplus1 Lucky Blocks updated with a few fixes and new blocks :)
13:38 paramat 27 = 3x3x3 blocks, the client can only store mesh data to a distance of 24 nodes from a player
13:39 paramat default is 5000 which uses up to about 1GB RAM
13:42 IhrFussel It is very likely a client setting causing it since none of my other active players experienced it yet AFAIK
13:42 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
13:43 IhrFussel Plus it happens in singleplayer
13:43 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
13:44 paramat server_map_save_interval is matybe too high? default is 5s
13:44 paramat *maybe
13:45 IhrFussel It's server_map_save_interval = 15.3 on my server
13:46 nerzhul what is your map backend ?
13:46 IhrFussel SQLite
13:46 paramat hm i'm not sure what is optimal, but i suspect higher interval means a heavier load
13:46 nerzhul if you have I/O problems when writing your database on a server, use postgresql
13:47 tenplus1 would converting an sql to postgresql be an advantage ?
13:47 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
13:47 tenplus1 hi Jordach
13:47 RobbieF left #minetest-hub
13:48 red-NaN We should consider banning mods that use precompiled bytecode from the forum
13:48 red-NaN it undermines the whole point of mod security
13:48 tenplus1 o.O which mods use that ?
13:48 red-NaN that anticheat mod by rnd
13:49 red-NaN I mean the whole sitution is kinda ridicles
13:49 red-NaN the second result on google for "Lua JIT decompiler" successfully decompiles the code
13:51 paramat IhrFussel 'client_unload_unused_data_timeout = 30' seems too low also, default is 10 mins
13:51 red-NaN the decomplier is even nice enough to recover the names of locals and lay the code out nicely
13:52 paramat i have a weird feeling you have turned down all your settings too far to the point where it causes problems
13:52 tenplus1 agreed
13:53 red-NaN https://paste.ee/p/4QvmW
13:53 IhrFussel But it worked before with the exact same settings...so some commit must've raised the "required settings to run fine"
13:53 paramat 'trees = true' 'caves = true' 'dungeons = true' have no effect
13:53 paramat yeah maybe
13:54 IhrFussel Like I said the last compiled version without that glitch was Apr 24
13:55 IhrFussel But since I only update my server version every 1 - 2 months I can't tell when exactly it started happening
13:56 octacian joined #minetest-hub
13:56 octacian Is it possible to change the transparency of an entity? Specifically, the player
13:57 tenplus1 entity textures are either fully transparant or not... no inbetween
13:57 paramat i think even the android app has settings higher than this
13:57 corvus_ joined #minetest-hub
13:57 octacian Oh well, was hoping to be able to extend my invisibility mod to allow setting to a specific level of transparency
13:58 lisac_ joined #minetest-hub
13:58 tenplus1 you have an invisibility mod also ?
13:58 tenplus1 hi lisac
13:58 red-NaN !tell lisac hi
13:58 ShadowBot red-NaN: O.K.
14:00 tenplus1 wb raven
14:00 Raven262 Thanks, tenplus1
14:00 Raven262 That was connection problem, not a leave of mine actually.
14:03 red-NaN !tell red-NaN test
14:03 ShadowBot red-NaN: O.K.
14:07 paramat IhrFussel 'max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 2' possibly too low. i would try the default android configuration and see if the bug is fixed, or even the default desktop config (but with client_mapblock_limit reduced to match your available client RAM)
14:11 IhrFussel active_block_range = 1 max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 5 active_object_send_range_blocks = 1 max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total = 80 max_block_send_distance = 4 max_block_generate_distance = 5
14:11 IhrFussel Those are the server settings
14:15 paramat since it happens in your local singleplayer game best work with your singleplayer config for now
14:18 sfan5 what kind of machine do you run that server one?
14:18 sfan5 on*
14:23 octacian Why is it seemingly impossible to entirely disable the sneak glitch?
14:23 octacian tenplus1: And yes, I have an invisibility mod. You even commented on it once :P
14:24 octacian So, I've tried disabling new_move and sneak_glitch, however, it just causes the game to revert back to the original sneak glitch due to the fact that for some ridiculous reason both physics settings seem to mean the same though. Any thoughts?
14:24 octacian (I'm trying to make a fence that you can't jump over)
14:24 tenplus1 lol, must have forgotten :) ahahah
14:24 octacian heh
14:25 tenplus1 if you wanna keep players out of an area make fence 2 high
14:29 paramat disabling 'new move' means you are now using the old move code which includes sneak ladders and sneak jump
14:30 tenplus1 is the falling damage bug been fixed for that one ?
14:30 paramat oh fences with a tall collisionbox cause sneak-jump to work when it should not
14:31 paramat there's an issue for that
14:31 tenplus1 w00t
14:32 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5861
14:32 Fixer sfan5: is new luajit-2.1.0-beta3 compiled with GC64 enabled?
14:32 sfan5 no
14:33 Jordach *autistic screeching*
14:33 Jordach GC64 needs to be default for 64bit builts
14:33 Jordach -t +d
14:34 sfan5 i've had it segfault when using lots of memory here
14:34 Jordach hitting the OOM cap at literally fucking 52MB is piss poor for a VM that wants performance
14:34 sfan5 wouldn't want to put that into production
14:34 Jordach label em experimental
14:34 Calinou when you label something experimental, it actually triples its user count :^)
14:35 tenplus1 lol
14:35 Jordach i can hear the sarcasm, Calinou
14:35 Calinou "Built-in ads - EXPERIMENTAL"
14:35 Calinou "In-app purchases - EXPERIMENTAL"
14:35 Calinou there, now we can make money
14:35 paramat the displayed memory use at OOM is not the memory use that causes OOM apparently
14:35 octacian tenplus1: They can still get over it using sneak glitch
14:36 octacian paramat: I tried setting both new_move and sneak_glitch to false, I even tried them one-by-one
14:36 Fixer Jordach: i'm curious myself, why the fuck it OOMs at 20-50mb of lua mem used? Last time I tested Dreambuilder mem use was 80mb at most and then it just dies with lua oom
14:36 Jordach Fixer, LuaJIT problems
14:37 Jordach i've got specialist mapgen hooks as part pf Solar Plains which takes a huge amount of memory for bizzare reasons
14:37 Fixer dreambuilder is unusable for me on windows, 5-10 min of simple walk and it is over
14:37 octacian Wait, I see. So for some reason the sneak glitch still works specifically on nodes with a higher collision box. Ohk
14:38 sfan5 just use the noluajit build
14:38 sfan5 it's not *that* slow
14:38 twoelk Fixer: same problem if you use a client without LuaJIT?
14:38 Jordach just because i've got a pretty good IPC on my CPU
14:38 Jordach doesn't mean i should use the slower option
14:38 nerzhul dreambuilder is relatively slow and requires some architecture rewrite :p
14:39 Fixer Jordach: darkage mod that I love coupled with tons of other mods triggered almost instant on_generated lua OOM on game start on server subgame i tested, it is crazy
14:39 Fixer sfan5: yeah, i'm using it
14:39 Jordach can't wait for LuaJIT to go GC64
14:39 Fixer sfan5: you still feel the slowness of it particularly in unified inventory
14:40 Fixer Jordach: it is already GC64... but smth is buggy
14:40 Fixer beta3 includes it
14:40 sfan5 gc64 is not enabled by default
14:40 Fixer i even managed to use >2 gb of mem with it, but after 20-30 seconds it just crashes for some reason
14:40 Fixer luajit related crash
14:41 Fixer nerzhul: architecture rewrite? lol, it is modpack
14:41 tenplus1 is ther eno way to increase the luajit limit ?
14:41 Jordach no way
14:41 Jordach minetest should switch to a python library
14:42 Fixer meanwhile i'm very triggered by homedecor modpack external dependancy on unified dyes :(
14:42 Jordach Kappa
14:42 Fixer Jordach: Pythha
14:42 Fixer modpack is supposed to contain everything inside
14:42 twoelk so darkage and dreambuilder have some troublesome code in common?
14:42 tenplus1 agreed...  the reason am using such an older version of homedecor on servert
14:42 Jordach i will mention this
14:43 Jordach VManip has titanic memory leaks even with LOCAL
14:43 Fixer twoelk: i can name two: darkage and technic_worldgen, both generate ores and other stuff at mapgen and this often causes OOM
14:44 tenplus1 darkage needs to convert it's ores to the default oregen/mapgen
14:44 twoelk is darkage still alive?
14:44 Thomas-S yes, it is. Here: https://bitbucket.org/adrido/darkage
14:45 tenplus1 I would have thought darkage and castle mod would have merged since it's almost same nodes... and fixed the ores
14:45 Jordach meanwhile MC doesn't give a sngle fuck about RAM usage provided you've got as much as it needs
14:46 tenplus1 lolol
14:46 tenplus1 mc almost killed my net-top pc
14:46 paramat Jordach are you using these memory use optimisations? https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=18&amp;t=16043
14:46 Jordach i legit give it 8-12GB of RAM to avoid the dreaded GC thread bug
14:46 Calinou Jordach: do you play it with mods?
14:46 Calinou unmodded, the default JVM settings should work fine
14:46 Jordach Calinou, 1.10x
14:47 Calinou no need to set -Xms over 2 GB really
14:47 Calinou or -Xmx
14:47 Jordach i like mods
14:47 Calinou (plus, it'll break things sometimes, I remember trying huge values and it crashed on start)
14:47 Calinou VoxelMap and OptiFine are all you need :D
14:47 paramat vmanip does not have a memory leak as far as we know, that's different to 'using lots of memory'
14:52 twoelk maybe someone knowledgable of the current abbilities and standards of mapgen in minetest core should review the most popular mods that might use old mapgen techniques and place issues that make the modders aware of the possible solution ;-)
14:52 tenplus1 good idea
14:54 tenplus1 so far caverealms_lite hasnt given an oom error so must be using newer techniques :P https://github.com/Zeno-/caverealms_lite
15:02 sfan5 Jordach: have fun with some crashes :^) https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/m​inetest-0.4.16-gc64-win64.7z
15:04 nerzhul Fixer, modpack != good code
15:04 nerzhul when server lag on servetthread it's in 95% cases because the on_step callback is slow due to too many events for 1 step
15:04 nerzhul modders who wants many features should understand to dispatch their events
15:05 tenplus1 that's why I put timers on on_step so it's not running all the time
15:06 nerzhul tenplus1, yes
15:07 Jordach ofuk techmoan video
15:09 Jordach i'm really tempted to re-write the Main Menu to not use FSTK
15:11 RubenBot joined #minetest-hub
15:11 Calinou just theme the Irrlicht GUI, I believe SuperTuxKart has done it
15:11 Jordach Calinou, you underestimate my power
15:11 Calinou also make font_size automatically adjust with screen resolution...
15:11 Calinou why is that not done in 2017 ^
15:11 tenplus1 +1
15:12 Calinou on my desktop, I use font_size like 25, and mono_font_size like 23
15:12 Calinou (need to check again)
15:12 rubenwardy if you're rewriting things, I suggest separating logic from the views
15:12 Calinou the default font is tiny even for 1920x1080, and this is 2560x1440
15:12 rubenwardy ie: mod logic should not be in tab_mods or whatever
15:12 Jordach Calinou, i also have a friggin ultrawide
15:12 rubenwardy it should be in a separate "class" which knows nothing about formspecs
15:13 rubenwardy be warned that octacian is also working on the mainmenu (the mod part, more specifically)
15:13 octacian I'm also working on a few other parts. Not just mods. Subgames, textures packs, configure. :rofl:
15:14 octacian Jordach: If you rewrite the main menu to not use fstk, I'd personally be really happy :D
15:14 * tenplus1 adds a pull to change main menu to comic sans 14
15:14 octacian I've considered doing it myself, but won't have time for a while.
15:14 Calinou we could switch the default to Droid Sans, too
15:15 Calinou Liberation Sans is a bit... boring
15:15 Calinou (ultimately, it's a metric-compatible Arial)
15:15 Calinou (which is not exactly the best-looking font today)
15:15 sfan5 lets switch to comic sans ms
15:15 rubenwardy something like sfinv would be nice for the main menu. Much simpler and cleaner
15:16 octacian I'd like a tab-less main menu personally. Particularly for Android
15:16 rubenwardy sfinv is tabless
15:17 rubenwardy it's designed so that you can replace the navigation with something other than tabs
15:17 octacian Really?
15:17 rubenwardy using make_formspec
15:17 octacian I see.
15:17 Jordach rubenwardy, was thinking of allowing redefinition of the mainmenu
15:17 rubenwardy it just defaults to tabs, as that's the current MT way
15:17 rubenwardy that too, Jordach
15:17 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
15:17 rubenwardy does fstk allow redefinition of pages easily?
15:17 Jordach *no*
15:17 octacian Yes, if subgames to redefine the main menu that would be really useful
15:17 Jordach it's a monolithic kernel, so to speak
15:18 rubenwardy ew
15:18 tenplus1 hi DS-minetest
15:18 DS-minetest hi tenplus1
15:18 rubenwardy my intent with sfinv has always been to eventually port it to the main menu
15:18 * tenplus1 just noticed that his gfx card (nvidia ion.2) is 6 years old already :) eheh
15:19 Jordach my GPU is almost 1 year old (XFX RX 480 Reference)
15:19 octacian Well, if someone doesn't do those main menu things soon, just know that I will :P
15:21 rubenwardy it's not high on my todo list currently
15:21 octacian Until it gets done, Android won't be very nice overall though
15:25 tenplus1 http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/2ec55bea​-it-feels-like-you-don-t-carrot-all.jpg
15:37 rubenwardy have you voted, tenplus1? :)
15:37 tenplus1 uk election ?
15:37 rubenwardy yeah, you're Scottish, right?
15:37 tenplus1 yeah... and no...  dont trust any of the parties
15:38 rubenwardy neither do I
15:38 tenplus1 [x] None of the above
15:38 rubenwardy have you at least spoiled your ballet in that case?
15:38 rubenwardy it's better than not voting
15:38 rubenwardy assuming they count spoiled ballets accurately
15:38 tenplus1 heh... the illusion of free choice :P
15:39 rubenwardy it is
15:39 rubenwardy with a spoiled ballet, they at least get an indication of how many people are disillisioned
15:40 tenplus1 hence the  [x] None of the above :PPPPPPP
15:40 rubenwardy ah, kk
15:40 tenplus1 it's the same as always, they promise the world and then refuse to do anything...
15:41 rubenwardy or with the conservatives, they promise the worse and still do it, whilst still breaking promises
15:41 * tenplus1 flies to Mars
15:50 paramat they're not exactly equally as bad obviously, so best to vote for the least evil, otherwise you waste your little bit of influence, because unfortunately 'none of the above' is not an option and is counted as 'spoiled'
15:50 tenplus1 ooh, firefox tweaks really help :) memory usage has stabilized around 700mb and I'm on youtube playing vids
15:51 paramat (it's not an option because that option would win hehe)
15:52 twoelk I helped counting votes in the last local election - people do get pretty creative in expressing their <non of the above> votes
15:53 tenplus1 I kinda wish the "Raving Looney Party" was still a thing... would vote for them just to upset the balance
15:55 paramat i don't 'trust' any of them either. but if you don't use the tiny influence you have then you are stating 'i don't care about anything' which is obviously not true i'm sure
15:56 twoelk we had the pirates party get pretty popular a few years back - they got into local parlament and got confrated with political reality - they pretty much were voted out of everything this time
15:56 tenplus1 shame
15:57 rubenwardy spoiling your vote isn't the same as not voting, it's stating you don't like the candidates rather than you don't care
15:57 tenplus1 I'd love to have a proper working forum in britain... 12 people from all walks of life changed each year instead of parties
15:58 rubenwardy I didn't spoil my vote however
15:58 Jordach sfan5, testing GC64
15:58 Jordach HOLY SHIT
15:58 tenplus1 ?
15:58 paramat ruben yeah i know, but that's how it is interpreted
15:58 sfan5 did it crash yet
15:58 Jordach not even during mapgen
15:58 Jordach when doing trees
15:59 rubenwardy paramat, only a moron would interpret it that way - why would you bother to turn up to vote if you didn't care?
15:59 Jordach sfan5, it's doing mapgen even faster than without GC64
15:59 tenplus1 any disadvantages in using GC64 ???
16:00 paramat 'interpreted by the state'
16:00 Jordach can crash randomly
16:00 Jordach as in. not finished JIT compiler
16:00 tenplus1 damn
16:00 Jordach but Solar Plains runs fine
16:00 sfan5 you're better of using noluajit if you can accept the speed disadvantage
16:01 paramat 'spoiled' also includes those who just made a huge mess or crossed too many boxes, it has no democratic message and is not counted as 'no confidence'
16:01 Jordach sfan5, GC64 is so fast INTRO fails to activate properly
16:01 Jordach at a whopping 1:2 chance of not working at all
16:02 sfan5 Jordach: s/fast/broken/
16:02 paramat .. so it's a waste of your tiny bit of power, which is a shame
16:02 tenplus1 -.-
16:02 Jordach trying to find the forests
16:02 Jordach those usually crash JIT
16:04 Jordach 108 trees grown after: 0.13s
16:04 Jordach 98 trees grown after: 0.13s
16:04 Jordach would usually take 1-2 seconds on regular 32bit JIT
16:04 tenplus1 nice
16:04 Jordach or crash JIT directly
16:04 Jordach average treegen time is 0.02s
16:06 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jordach/​b94e3b43f88a8a8d74749b85185ec81a
16:06 Jordach statistics
16:08 Jordach sfan5, got a link to a normie build with JIT
16:09 Jordach not GC64
16:09 sfan5 official win64
16:09 Shara I think I already hate CSM, but not for any of the reasons people mentioned so far...
16:10 * tenplus1 wants a server switch to disable CSM completely for client-side also
16:10 Shara Sick of seeing colour code garbage spamming my server's IRC channel. :(
16:10 red-NaN Shara, so why did you join the club?
16:11 red-NaN Shara, update your IRC mod
16:11 Shara It's been updated to cope with this lunacy then?
16:11 Shara I'm actually going to start banning players who use that mod otherwise
16:11 red-NaN I made a PR to fix that ages ago, even before CSM was allowed to send chat
16:11 rubenwardy Shara, make a mod to filter it out
16:11 rubenwardy what's the escape for color?
16:12 sfan5 Jordach: i think average time per tree might be better
16:12 red-NaN rubenwardy, minetest includes a function to strip colours already
16:12 Shara rubenwardy: I'm tired of making mods to deal with things like this.
16:12 rubenwardy ah, ok
16:12 red-NaN Shara, just update the mod
16:12 Shara red-NaN: YEs, will later thanks.
16:12 red-NaN or mannually apply the change I made
16:12 Shara Though I also have issues of players who think it's cool to type in black so no one can read them
16:12 Jordach 67 trees grown after: 0.10s
16:12 Jordach :thinking:
16:13 Jordach win64
16:13 Jordach no GC64
16:13 Jordach 95 trees grown after: 0.12s
16:13 Shara red-NaN: Is there a way to make a CSM mod to choose what colour you see for everything, instead of seeing what other people choose?
16:13 Shara That would be much nicer...
16:14 red-NaN Shara, chat6
16:14 Shara I don't want my chat looking like a rainbow. :)
16:14 Jordach sfan5, from fly-over mapgen testing: seems to be like 5% speed boost
16:14 Shara chat6?
16:14 red-NaN see that for an example
16:14 red-NaN Shara, search github for that
16:15 * Shara adds to endless list
16:17 Shara I finally have time to work on mods again, but it's scary to realise just how many mods that means working on
16:18 Fuchs hope the exams went well, then :)
16:18 Shara Fuchs: Thank you. Got a good feeling about them at least :)
16:18 tenplus1 especially with latest changes
16:18 Fuchs good :)
16:18 tenplus1 <fingers crossed> for results shara
16:19 Shara And don't worry. Doing more with that fox mob is still on my to do list :)
16:20 Fixer tenplus1: nvidia ion.2 is hardly a videocard
16:20 Shara Thanks Ten :)
16:20 tenplus1 I like my wee net-top and it's video card :) has done me proud for years
16:24 Shara Oh lovely. Now someone playing with the hi spam mod on my server.
16:24 Shara Can we please get a way to just outright block CSM?
16:25 Shara It is giving me nothing but headaches.
16:25 tenplus1 +10000000...  server owners need a way to disable csm
16:25 red-NaN meh it's too late now
16:25 red-NaN the wheels of CSM had already been set in motion
16:26 tenplus1 damn...
16:26 red-NaN plus it would be hard to do techincaly
16:26 Shara I'm actually considering adding CSM use to bannable offences on my server.
16:26 red-NaN we still have to be able to load builtin
16:26 Fixer but those GC64 luajit related crashes... they will not fix themselvs if they are not reported to the devs
16:26 red-NaN so someone could just paste thier stuff into CSM
16:26 red-NaN + builtin
16:26 Shara red-NaN: It's horrible.
16:27 red-NaN Shara, how so?
16:27 Fixer Shara: what mod?
16:27 Shara The spam that just ripped through chat on RC is proof enough
16:27 red-NaN Shara, whats the channel?
16:27 Shara I was getting long lines of HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII from people for every time someone signed in
16:27 Shara (many more Is than that)
16:28 red-NaN Shara, kick/ban for spam
16:28 Shara I've told them I'll ban if I see any more of it.
16:28 Fixer Shara: just kick/ban those Hi players
16:28 red-NaN ^
16:28 red-NaN thats one dumb mod
16:28 Shara Fixer, they are regular players who didn't realise
16:28 Shara They are just, as is natural, experimenting.
16:28 paramat preventing client-provided clientmods is not impossible
16:28 red-NaN Shara, mute them then
16:29 Shara So banning them right away wouldn't be fair or right of me
16:29 Shara But it's still a huge headache.
16:29 paramat .. and is necessary
16:29 Shara paramat: please make it happen.
16:29 red-NaN paramat, as far as I'm conserced it is
16:29 red-NaN unless you want to checksum builtin on client compile
16:30 paramat nerz intends banning by feature 'flavour', so banning all flavours will be possible
16:30 red-NaN but buitlin will still need access to some of them
16:30 red-NaN otherwise the client will break
16:31 DS-minetest i could change the mod to make it possible to disable it, eg. with a special chat message like "stop the hiing". but some players could maybe be able to delete that again
16:31 paramat ok, but chat mods will be bannable
16:31 Shara I want to control how chat appears on my own server.
16:31 Shara I do not want players controlling it.
16:31 tenplus1 agreed, if anyone spams chat with csm mod on Xanadu it's an instant ban
16:31 red-NaN DS-minetest, please consider getting rid of that mod
16:31 paramat *should be bannable
16:31 red-NaN it might be part of the -hub starter pack
16:32 Shara I've had players sending messages in black coloured text....
16:32 paramat yeah as i predicted https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5915
16:32 red-NaN Shara, how about we add a server-sided way to remove colour?
16:33 Shara And what if I want it so that admins/moderators have their text a certain colour to identify themselves?
16:33 Shara It should be the server owner deciding these things.
16:33 red-NaN that will also stop modded clients and people manunaly entering colour codes
16:33 Shara red-NaN: please do.
16:33 Shara And preferably, make it default.
16:34 red-NaN I would prefer to make it default to off, a lot of server owners might not mind
16:34 rubenwardy the server needs to validate these things
16:34 red-NaN huh what does IRC default to?
16:34 red-NaN on freenode that is
16:35 red-NaN is colour enabled on freenode by default or off?
16:35 DS-minetest hopefully #5917 will kill hi
16:36 paramat "how about we add a server-sided way to remove colour?" chat CSM needs to be a 'flavour' which is disallowable
16:36 DS-minetest can't you just copy the color char into chat?
16:36 red-NaN DS-minetest, you can
16:36 red-NaN it's pretty easy
16:36 paramat most server owners will mind, you can see how it is already irritating one admin
16:37 red-NaN but minetest broke copy and paste as a security messure
16:37 Fuchs red-NaN: freenode should not be used for in-game chat in general, really
16:37 red-NaN so we don't have to deal with annoying copy and paste
16:37 red-NaN Fuchs, I was just wondering what freenodes default is
16:37 Fuchs but to answer your question: +c is not part of the default
16:37 Fuchs so colours are allowed by default
16:37 * DS-minetest doesn't see the problem with colors. he tolerates every color, not only white
16:37 red-NaN ok
16:37 Shara It's ingame black text on a black background that is really annoying to me.
16:38 tenplus1 if a server owner takes the time and effort to make their game a specific way for players, only to be changed or made easier by use of csm then we NEED a way to disable it server-side
16:38 red-NaN no, a lot of stuff client-sided csm loading allows is not something that server owners should have to care about
16:38 red-NaN what we need is a way to make sure CSM doesn't affect the server
16:39 paramat c55 has it right: "Current CSM is bad. The design of Minetest is to give all possible control to servers."
16:39 red-NaN unless the server owner whats it to
16:39 Fuchs would maybe make sense to implement something that doesn't rely on IRC, so you can have it act your way :)
16:39 Shara Fuchs: The colour code issue I'm talking about is purely ingame.
16:40 Fuchs especially that IRC has probably a couple of things (like the message lenght, which depends on the overhead as well, which is variable) that are unlikely to be handled well
16:40 IhrFussel red-NaN, I thought minetest.strip_colors(str) disables the colors from appearing in chat or no?
16:40 Fuchs ah
16:40 Shara The IRC related issue seems to already have a fix, and would apply to any IRC network.
16:40 red-NaN IhrFussel, yeah it does
16:40 Shara (as far as I know)
16:41 IhrFussel Then just add that line to the message callback @ anyone who complains about colored messages
16:41 Fixer tenplus1 confirmed in Shara's server chats
16:41 Shara But if I am playing the game, and people are using colour codes to change their text colour so I find it very difficult to read the messages... but I have no control of this...
16:41 Shara It's a problem to me.
16:42 Shara I don't mind if a player can set how they see their own display, but to change how I see what they type... That's bad.
16:42 red-NaN just strip the colours either on the server or on your client
16:43 Shara And how do I do that in the client?
16:43 Fixer strip colours on server :}
16:43 rubenwardy server side reconcilliation, client side prediction
16:43 rubenwardy all control should be with the server
16:43 red-NaN one sec let me check if I still have my colour-blind mod
16:43 rubenwardy doesn't mean that CSM shouldn't exist
16:44 rubenwardy although I really don't like the send chat api
16:44 Shara I don't want CSM able to effect chat, as it stands. I see nothing good from it.
16:44 red-NaN Shara, see "who_plus" as an example
16:45 paramat unfortunately CSM developed and a release happened before the necessary restrictions, we may need a point release soon after this is sorted out :]
16:45 rubenwardy that should be server side
16:45 Shara red-NaN: I have no idea where to look for this. Do you have a link please?
16:46 red-NaN https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17800
16:46 red-NaN it automates sending certain chatcommands
16:47 Shara Thanks
16:47 rubenwardy that shouldn't be done by CSM, imo
16:48 tenplus1 wouldnt it be easier for admin to type  /kick  /ban   /status   and use <tab> to autocomplete a name ??
16:49 Shara Yea, not really sure I want to add more mods to stop mods... I think I'll just ban players abusing this.
16:49 tenplus1 same
16:50 Fixer is it possible to play with opened formspec in background?
16:50 Shara I have a lot of things I want to work on for MT without needing to constantly try and patch things so I can stand to play.
16:52 red-NaN alright I suppose I should take back my statements about blocking chat sending
16:52 red-NaN as long
16:52 red-NaN as chatcommands are excluded
16:52 tenplus1 am still getting "WARNING[Main]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found" in console when running server
16:52 Fixer https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=10&amp;t=14429&amp;start=975#p275972
16:52 tenplus1 where are these blocks, why no meta ?!?!?!?!?
16:52 red-NaN tenplus1, no-one knows
16:52 red-NaN just ignore it
16:53 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:54 tenplus1 wb nrz
16:56 red-NaN huh I thought of a hacky way for the server to send settings to CSM mods
16:56 nerzhul no hacky way
16:57 tenplus1 do tell ?
16:57 nerzhul chat message handling hack like i saw before ?
16:57 red-NaN no even worse
16:57 tenplus1 ???
16:57 red-NaN privs
16:57 tenplus1 add a bogus priv with info attached ?
16:58 red-NaN the server could set an priv to tell a CSM mod if a feature should be enabled
17:00 DS-minetest i don't think, that would make sense
17:01 tenplus1 if csm can read player privs then yeah, it's possible to enable special features using privs
17:01 DS-minetest all players should be treated equal, admins can have more things with ssm
17:01 nerzhul it's very hacky, please don't :p
17:02 Shara Players should be treated based on what they have earned, and not as equals.
17:02 tenplus1 a natural progression to the game
17:02 DS-minetest would it be possible to sens something into chat that only those with csm get an error?
17:02 red-NaN this all feels like testing in production
17:02 Shara It really does...
17:03 nerzhul red-NaN, a little bit yes
17:04 Raven262 Nobody should be threated differently, everyone is equal in socialistic society.
17:04 red-NaN well I think you can at least partially understand why some of the concerns where ignored when people where using far fetched scenrios instead of focusing on the real issues
17:04 red-NaN like spamming
17:04 Shara Raven262: we're talking about players.
17:05 Raven262 Even players are equal.
17:05 Shara Not in terms of what privs they get.
17:05 red-NaN Raven262, not this again
17:05 Raven262 Or is minetest also covered by the shadow of capitalism?
17:05 Raven262 This, comrade red, this
17:05 red-NaN we almost burned this place to the ground last time we started this
17:05 Raven262 You are already red, aren't you?
17:05 tenplus1 lol
17:06 Shara Put yourself in a server owner's shoes for  a moment. Player #1 always tries to help new players learn the game, and tries to repair griefing damage they find and so on. Player #2 is a borderline griefer who sometimes spams chat a bit, but not quite enough to get banned.
17:06 DS-minetest Raven262: you are already blue, a hot flame O_o
17:06 Raven262 Nah, red is my colour.
17:06 Raven262 Red as in freedom.
17:06 red-NaN last time it was someone agruing for human rights and now it is a ex-soviet trying to bring back commuism
17:06 Shara I'll reward player #1 with extra privs and more of my time any day, player #2... no.
17:07 red-NaN better red then dead
17:07 Raven262 Indeed, comrade.
17:07 Fixer tenplus1: bump
17:07 DS-minetest Raven262: everyone sees himself as red
17:07 Raven262 Nah, but red surely does.
17:08 Raven262 Shara, I have never seen someone reward players with extra privs except when making them an moderator/admin
17:08 tenplus1 the whole reason the 'creative' priv is important as well... to reward builders and trustworthy playersd
17:08 tenplus1 I do that all the time Raven
17:08 Shara Raven262: You didn't spend time around my servers then.
17:08 Shara Or Xanadu.
17:08 Raven262 No.
17:08 red-NaN well brb
17:08 red-NaN invading russia during the winter
17:09 Raven262 Heh, bad for you, red.
17:09 tenplus1 make sure you're wrapped up in a huge fur coat and hat
17:09 Raven262 Or in the cold embrace of winter anyway.
17:10 Fixer tenplus1: i wonder if it is possible to open formspec of your protector_redo via CSM and add other players
17:10 Raven262 That would be nice now, wouldn't it?
17:10 tenplus1 no, it checks if you have name added before opening
17:10 Raven262 damn
17:11 * Raven262 just had an interesting idea.
17:11 Raven262 But well, wouldn't try that anyway
17:11 red-NaN tenplus1, before opening?
17:11 tenplus1 yes
17:11 red-NaN or before processing input?
17:12 red-NaN Fixer, CSM can't really mess around with server formspecs
17:12 tenplus1 on_rightclick it checks if you are allowed and only then opens formspec or protected chest etc
17:12 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEBdKFGlPg
17:12 Fixer tenplus1: i mean protector formspec, not shared chest
17:12 red-NaN that inventory thing was something I didn't know about how minetest process inventories
17:12 red-NaN tenplus1, thats not good
17:13 red-NaN A modded client could pull a worldedit_gui on you
17:13 tenplus1 yes Fixer, for protector AND chest formspec
17:13 Fixer tenplus1: have you found out how they grief in protected places?
17:13 red-NaN https://raw.githubusercontent.com/red-001​/diagrams/master/formspec%20spoofing.jpg
17:14 tenplus1 sadly no...
17:14 tenplus1 am sure it has something to do with hacked client granting privs
17:16 nerzhul then sounds somes are doing bots with chat, it's what i suspected before release and didn't wanted to add this API feature, hopefully there is rate limit client side and server side, but it's not sufficient
17:16 nerzhul red-NaN, you can fake formspec like you can fake POST requests on any HTML form
17:16 red-NaN nerzhul, I know
17:17 red-NaN I was trying to test my infographic making skills
17:17 red-NaN it didn't go well
17:17 nerzhul libre office draw ?
17:17 rubenwardy tenplus1, you do check on field submission though?
17:17 red-NaN rubenwardy, looking at his code he seems to be
17:17 tenplus1 field submission for what /
17:18 rubenwardy ...formspecs
17:18 tenplus1 it's done on rightclick
17:18 DS-minetest what if you could only use minetest.send_chat_message as often as you opened chat before?
17:18 tenplus1 if they cant get into it field submission isnt needed
17:19 red-NaN ...
17:19 rubenwardy false, tenplus1, you also need to check on fields received as you can't trust clients
17:19 red-NaN I guess I failed at infographic making then
17:19 tenplus1 if I do that then it'll become pretty slow
17:19 red-NaN rubenwardy, https://github.com/tenplus1/protector/blob/1130f4​47a62cdcb40fe24d68b7717eaa55b1f9bb/init.lua#L525
17:19 tenplus1 having to check if player has access to formspec etc
17:19 red-NaN it seems to check if the player can dig the node
17:19 rubenwardy that's good then, you do check
17:21 tenplus1 ooh, xanadu has been up for 42 hours :)
17:21 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
17:21 tenplus1 hi cx384
17:22 red-NaN nerzhul, will you be able to finnish your CSM flavours pr before next release?
17:22 cx384 hi tenplus1 =)
17:22 red-NaN no need to hurry with it now since people will just use 0.4.16
17:22 red-NaN but this needs to make it's way into next release
17:22 nerzhul red-NaN, next release is in some months then i think it's not a problem :p
17:23 red-NaN hopefully with some new features like severs being able to send mods to client so that people update
17:23 nerzhul yes i agree, but i don't continue it, waiting for different discussion and new API
17:25 red-NaN thinking of re-working the way chatcommands are sent
17:25 red-NaN if we add client <-> server modding communication we could send chat commands over that instead of chat
17:26 Shara I really hope this problem won't be left until next release...
17:27 nerzhul red-NaN, we can but it's not the real purpose and needs some server handling
17:28 red-NaN Shara, there is no real way to handle it until release
17:28 red-NaN we need a new version and a reason for people to update
17:29 red-NaN so at least 2 months if we do a point release
17:29 Shara Then this is extremely poor on the part of the dev team.
17:36 paramat "no need to hurry"? this has been let loose on the release, needs a fix and a point release
17:38 Amaz Servers do need to be able to disable (at least most of) CSM asap.
17:38 tenplus1 yup
17:38 Amaz And allowing servers to send their own client side mods would also be *very* nice
17:38 rubenwardy sending chat should not be a feature
17:38 Shara We shouldn't need to wait two months to have some control over this mess though, either way.
17:39 Amaz ^
17:39 rubenwardy client side modding shouldn't be for client mods
17:39 rubenwardy client side modding should be for client side prediction for server side mods
17:40 paramat how about all CSM work goes into this issue, then we release as soon as it is done? would it need to be a separate branch (0.4.17) to avoid 0.5.0 work?
17:42 paramat a branch for point release fixes for 0.4.16 was actually discussed for other reasons
17:44 cheapie CSM sounds like the sort of thing I'd expect a major release for. It's also the kind of thing that I'd expect to actually be finished before a release, instead of the half-baked version in 0.4.16 :/
17:46 tenplus1 hi cheapie
17:46 cheapie Hi.
17:47 cheapie [12:38:10] <Amaz> Servers do need to be able to disable (at least most of) CSM asap. <--- If you do that, most likely lots of people (me included) are promptly going to patch around that anti-feature in our clients.
17:49 Shara This is the problem we now have.
17:49 tenplus1 personally I feel that CSM mods should be loaded FROM the server to assist in it's operation on the client engine, leaving the server with control over what's run
17:50 Amaz ^
17:50 Shara If clients can do what they like, clients will now do what they like.
17:50 Shara It's always been an issue, but there's now been an official release that lowers the barrier.
17:50 tenplus1 exactly
17:51 Shara And I really, really do not want a client able to change what my server then supplies to other players, even if it is only a chat colour.
17:58 nerzhul Amaz, i think you dream, sending mods from server just needs many dev and tests and BEST security
17:58 nerzhul paramat, backport stable -0.4 to generate 0.4.x
17:59 paramat ok
17:59 Jordach >tfw fidget spinners works for someone with autism
17:59 Jordach reeeee
18:01 paramat cheapie that's what bigfoot547 stated, depending on what you do that could make you an unwelcome hacker
18:09 red-NaN the reason we will have to wait is that we need to give users a reason to upate
18:09 red-NaN update*
18:09 * DS-minetest finally made a client side chatbell mod :P
18:09 tenplus1 chat bell ?
18:09 red-NaN if the main feature for users is "We removed a feature because server owners didn't like it" then they don't have a reason to update
18:10 DS-minetest a bell that is to hear if your name is written
18:10 tenplus1 ah
18:11 red-NaN as nice as it would be to remove chat sending and node access if the server doesn't want it, it's not possible unless users co-operate
18:11 paramat weird, i thought server-provided clientmods was the original idea and primary use, it's the most useful aspect
18:11 red-NaN and if they were willing to co-operate in the first place they would disable the mods that server owners didn't like
18:11 paramat fixing this is enough reason to update :]
18:12 Fixer i still think people overreacting about CSM
18:12 Fixer it is interesting how it ends up in security sense
18:12 red-NaN paramat, for server owners not for players
18:12 red-NaN remeber theses are the players that are using these mods even through the server owner doesn't like them
18:13 tenplus1 if players want to run mods for singleplayer use then that's fine, but for server use it's up to the server itself to dictate mods in use
18:13 paramat there will be other improvements by the time CSM is sorted, not everyone works on CSM
18:14 red-NaN paramat, thats why I was giving a time frame of two months
18:14 paramat " it's not possible unless users co-operate
18:14 paramat " ?
18:14 red-NaN thats a realistic time frame for adding new features and fixing this
18:14 red-NaN paramat, they can just use an old client
18:14 Fixer "White Supremacy Symbol"
18:15 Fixer LOL
18:15 Fixer not this again
18:15 Jordach Fixer, l m a o
18:15 paramat stop trying to say it's pointless, i can see from your arguments you are biased against restrictions
18:15 red-NaN unless you want to lose ~60% of moible users you will need to allow old clients
18:15 Fixer those spinners are dumb
18:15 paramat this was clear in the thread too
18:15 Fixer compared to yoyo
18:15 red-NaN paramat, well then suggest a way to implement it
18:17 Krock joined #minetest-hub
18:17 Krock hi tenplus1
18:17 Krock HA
18:17 red-NaN hi tenplus1
18:17 paramat "paramat, they can just use an old client" then we just have to do whatever is necessary to avoid loopholes, you're just resisting what is needed
18:17 red-NaN you can't avoid that loop hole
18:18 red-NaN unless like a said you ban old clients
18:18 red-NaN and completely break backwards compatibilliy
18:19 red-NaN wait aren't we planning to remove old protocol support for 0.5.0?
18:19 paramat then why was CSM coded this way in the first place? seems a disaster
18:19 tenplus1 +1... also, hi Krock
18:20 paramat anyway i don't trust your statements much because you are obviously biased against restrictions
18:20 Fixer REMOVE KECSM
18:20 Krock REMOVE KEBAB
18:21 Fixer still, i think situation is mostly okay for now
18:21 Fixer just discuss calmly
18:21 paramat and what is nerz coding and how come he can code effective restrictions?
18:22 red-NaN on new clients
18:22 Fixer what is worrying me is this discussed by only 3 devs...
18:22 red-NaN thats why we need co-operation from users
18:23 paramat how about completely removing the ability to have client-provided clientmods and have server-provided only? (as was the original plan and by far the most useful usage) would that allow effective restrictions?
18:24 * red-NaN sigh
18:24 red-NaN I do think that the way nerzhul is planning to do this is mostly ok
18:24 Jordach wooo
18:25 paramat ok so restriction by flavour is no solution either
18:25 Jordach woot
18:25 Jordach i can make extruded models in blender for 234 tris
18:25 red-NaN at the very least it's harder to by-pass then the idea of removing mod loading
18:27 paramat please could someone answer my long question above, nerzhul? seems that has to be considered
18:27 red-NaN paramat, you are confusing me disagreeing with how you want to implement this with not wanting to limit CSM at all
18:27 nerzhul paramat, it's not possible to do it in a short time because i don't want to see rogue servers which send shit to our clients client and hack their system (it's schema but realist)
18:28 paramat ok
18:28 red-NaN The only way that the "disable all client-sided mod loading" idea would work would be if the server sent builtin to the client
18:28 nerzhul CSM disable is a reality for most users , only some rogue users enabled it to do shit, releasing will not prevent using 0.4.16 to do same things
18:28 red-NaN but that would be a nightmare to work with
18:29 paramat CSM should be completely disabled until finished, but it has been left usable in 0.4.16
18:29 nerzhul red-NaN, i disagree with sending builtin because it's not mod owners respobility to handle core lua
18:29 red-NaN and could be a security disaster
18:29 nerzhul yes
18:29 red-NaN nerzhul, I was just playing the devils advocate for a monment there
18:29 tenplus1 disable for now, bump version to 0.4.17 and let ppl update
18:29 nerzhul it's disable by default
18:30 nerzhul we can hardcode CSM disable but this will not prevent users to enable it by using 0.4.16 or just hacked client which remove this hard limit
18:30 red-NaN ^
18:30 red-NaN hacked clients are a smaller issue
18:31 paramat ok, but: "The barriers to cheating we've had until CSM are fine. As long as cheating requires C++ changes, we're pretty much where we've always been"
18:31 red-NaN sure
18:31 paramat ^ c55
18:31 nerzhul also hardcoding disabling it will reduce the valid testers :(
18:31 nerzhul i think flavour to disable CSM risky features is the best consensus between anoying users using Lua and CSM useful features
18:32 red-NaN oh btw I will soon make a PR to remove colour from messages the server receives
18:32 paramat so why was this misuse by clients not considered or forseen? CSM was obviously wanted so someone must have an idea of how to implement it correctly
18:32 red-NaN well chat sending was a last minute thing
18:33 nerzhul paramat, CSM implement is good, API over CSM are not, i was against sending chat messages at the begining but i accept it because many good users convince me
18:33 red-NaN it got in the day before the feature frezze
18:33 red-NaN it was rejected twice before that
18:33 nerzhul and i ask the PR owner on chat message to add the chat sending limit
18:33 nerzhul i think the queue should be dropped
18:33 nerzhul too many messages => drop
18:33 paramat there was plenty of controversy and debate in the ore detect mod thread long before release, why ignored?
18:33 red-NaN nerzhul, maybe we heavily limit chat sending
18:33 nerzhul don't queue and dispatch them over time
18:34 red-NaN most legitimate use-case don't need to send a lot of messages
18:34 red-NaN I mean coloured chat is sort of legitimate
18:35 red-NaN but it's not that useful
18:35 nerzhul paramat, why don't help us to solve this issue in feature freeze if you know it ? me and red-NaN worked on the bugs to fix in the list, CSM was for us a disabled feature and there was many blockers to fix, if more coredevs or C++ PR owners have helped us to solve all those things or someone declared oredetection block we could have delayed released or fix it before that
18:35 nerzhul i think color chat should only be a customization per player
18:35 nerzhul or server message responsiblity
18:36 nerzhul you customize messages color, sender color etc
18:36 nerzhul (i.e. my WIP chat protocol rewrite)
18:36 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
18:36 red-NaN well I first implemented coloured chat for CSM as a way to prove it could be done in lua
18:37 tenplus1 hi Megaf
18:37 paramat because i don't remotely understand how it is coded. that's no excuse for not considering the objections raised
18:37 paramat as has been said in the thread there was plenty of objection long before release
18:37 nerzhul the best short think we can do i think is to finish the flavour PR, which will trigger a protocol bump and server owner should just set minimum version to 0.4.17 if they want to fix the problem
18:38 Megaf o//
18:38 Shara And lose a lot of players?
18:38 Shara Hi Roary Tiger
18:38 nerzhul there was, but also did you look at the GH activity ? there were many coredevs busy on other things than minetest, it's their right, but it doesn't help us to fix all the backlog
18:38 nerzhul Shara, i don't added that mention, but yes it's the protocol behind this
18:38 Megaf hey Shara
18:39 nerzhul if you don't block older MT (then 0.4.16) everybody can use CSM with that version to do unwanted things
18:39 paramat ok, nuff said, i appreciate the efforts towards fixing this
18:40 nerzhul note: i don't want to add core hack to define if flavour == CSM_FLAVOUR_BL_ALL  => protocol 0.4.16 is forbidden to connect
18:41 Shara If I do that, I'll lose probably most of my players over night anyway
18:42 Jordach i've found a bug
18:42 tenplus1 ?
18:42 Jordach nothing major
18:42 red-NaN well are there any other functions in CSM that need to be blocked?
18:42 Shara Simply can't expect players to be running the most recent client.
18:42 Jordach it's meshoptions plants
18:42 Shara I don't understand CSM well enough yet to know what else it can do.
18:42 nerzhul red-NaN, i think only chat & node limits
18:42 Jordach tenplus1, http://i.imgur.com/00W8XFQ.png
18:43 tenplus1 they float slightly
18:43 Jordach meshoptions plants seem to fly at the momenty
18:43 Jordach -y
18:43 red-NaN lol I kinda wish I didn't release my mod now
18:43 Shara What we need is the server to control this so the client doesn't matter.
18:43 Megaf can anyone give a light on this SATA/UDMA issue? I added a SSD to where an optical drive once was, its a macbook pro mid 2010 13 inch. http://paste.debian.net/plain/970670
18:43 red-NaN having coloured chat was a lot cooler when your where the only person that had it
18:44 nerzhul CSM is able to create local formspec for example you can make client only craft guide which is nice for client, you can handle minimap, settings, you can read all local player attributes, the current time, sending messages over chat (!), reading the map nodes your loaded (!)
18:44 Shara red-NaN: Yea, and I wouldn't mind if it worked that way.
18:44 Shara nerzhul: What is I don't want players to use the minimap unless they have, for example, a map item?
18:44 nerzhul red-NaN, yeah, users are more stupid and creative than us with a single api call :p
18:45 nerzhul Shara, if you disabled for your clients it you cannot enable with CSM if it's your question
18:45 Shara What if part of the game on my server is learning your own recipes, and I don't want to give everyone a craft guide?
18:45 red-NaN the way lisac implemented his coloured chat system was more intersting
18:45 red-NaN Shara, well I think a craftguide would require a server-side mod to support it
18:46 red-NaN I could be wrong but iirc the client doesn't know about crafts
18:46 nerzhul red-NaN, i think you can have client side craftguide atm no ? we can read recipes
18:46 Shara That is really bad
18:46 Shara Learning recipes can easily be a part of the gameplay
18:47 Shara I don't want players just able to go and read them all.
18:47 red-NaN I think we only have node definitions
18:47 nerzhul yeah but if we block all formspec we can block the excellent who_plus CSM mod
18:47 nerzhul red-NaN, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob​/master/doc/client_lua_api.md#definitions
18:48 nerzhul you are right we don't have recipes yet
18:48 Shara nerzhul: no offence meant, but that mods doesn't do anything I need
18:48 nerzhul if we add it, add a flavour for it then
18:48 Shara I'm happy to block it
18:48 red-NaN neat colour code striping works
18:49 nerzhul Shara, CSM is intended to enhance client experience also, not only what you want, we can offer some limits but removing all means just trash all efforts we want to make to reduce server load
18:49 paramat "i think only chat & node limits", many more will arise for sure :]
18:49 Shara nerzhul: if the compromise is server owner's losing control, then yes, I'd like it trashed. I know you have worked hard, but it's not good.
18:50 Shara It's my server. I pay to run it. I should be in control there.
18:50 nerzhul paramat, in the future ? yes, but atm it's the only problems i see
18:50 paramat Jordach that's with randomised tile height i guess?
18:50 Jordach paramat, yeeee
18:50 Shara If the game won't allow me to be in control, it may well be time for me to go and find another game, yes?
18:50 Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
18:50 red-NaN oh lets stop overreacting
18:51 nerzhul Shara, i can take examples with texture, you can have spent many moeny to make your texture pack on server and player set a custom texture pack, it's similar problem no ?
18:51 red-NaN ^
18:51 Shara It's nto similar at all.
18:51 Shara not*
18:51 Jordach paramat, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5947
18:51 Shara Someone setting a texture pack changes only their own experience.
18:52 nerzhul CSM will not be removed, now stop talking and we shoud finds how to properly limit the API, and server owners should update and encourage fucking anoying players to kick by banishing them if needed
18:52 red-NaN and thats what CSM mods should be limited to if the server owner doesn't want them to be able to do more
18:52 Shara nerzhul: Yes, properly limit it please.
18:52 red-NaN thats basicly what they do now if we removed chat
18:53 * red-NaN sets out to find a colour thats just off enough from black to be annoying to the eye but not enough for anyone to be sure
18:54 DS-minetest (by abusing chat a client side craft guide would already be possible. but it would need support of server. => it made no sense)
18:54 red-NaN may I ask why is colour not removed for old clients?
18:54 nerzhul DS-minetest, you made crazy mods over CSM :p
18:55 red-NaN we seem to be using a werid setting
18:55 nerzhul because we have retrocompat... but it was forgotten here ? :p
18:55 red-NaN instead of just removing colour-codes for old clients
18:56 red-NaN I might make a PR at some point to fix that and allow us to remove "disable_escape_sequences"
18:57 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/0JmgS6W.png
19:00 Jordach ...probably shouldn't post porn on IRC Kappa
19:00 red-NaN Shara, #5948
19:02 DS-minetest Jordach: wth your screen is wide!
19:03 Jordach u l t r a w i d e
19:03 octacian Jordach: Is that a custom model for the grass or whatever that is? heh
19:03 Jordach https://jordach.net/Images/emoji/thinking.png
19:04 octacian lol
19:04 Jordach apparently discord's emojis are SVG
19:05 Jordach https://discordapp.com/assets/53e​f346458017da2062aca5c7955946b.svg
19:06 octacian Really? heh, I've never bothered attempting to open the emojis themselves xD
19:10 DS-minetest https://assets-cdn.github.com/ima​ges/icons/emoji/unicode/1f914.png
19:16 lisac_ Discord has no plugin support
19:16 red-NaN oh hi lisac_
19:17 red-NaN turns out the masses where not ready for coloured chat
19:17 lisac_ Hi red-NaN
19:17 lisac red-NaN, How is that?
19:17 lisac Hi ShadowBot.
19:17 red-NaN they did not over through the ruling class
19:17 red-NaN they joined it
19:18 * lisac > Amon Amarth - The Pursuit Of Vikings  - [ Fate Of Norns #4 ] - [ 03:07 / 04:30 ]
19:18 red-NaN or tl;dr people make poor design choices
19:18 red-NaN also known as black text on anything thats not a uniform bright page
19:19 red-NaN oh and someone made a mod to simulate -hub/11 which really annoyed server owners
19:19 * red-NaN wonders does 11 summon tenplus1
19:20 lisac I know that hill should summon foot
19:20 tenplus1 :P
19:20 lisac Hi tenplus1.
19:20 tenplus1 hi hi
19:21 DS-minetest that was me who made that. but 11 doesn't want to use it because he would loose his job
19:21 lisac red-NaN, Do you think it is possible to get what hue there is most in an RGB color?
19:22 red-NaN robot revolution people
19:22 lisac and use that to determine IRC color?
19:22 lisac ex. 255 50 50 gives red
19:22 red-NaN huh
19:22 lisac same as 255 0 200
19:22 lisac etc, etc.
19:22 lisac and make colors work in IRC, too
19:22 red-NaN oh
19:22 red-NaN well I guess so
19:23 red-NaN but IRC colours are very limited
19:23 red-NaN I don't think it will work well
19:23 lisac :(
19:23 red-NaN plus they are implemention defined
19:23 red-NaN diffrent clients can use diffrent colours
19:23 lisac so, I might see red, but someone else might see pink?
19:23 DS-minetest clolors
19:24 red-NaN well I might see really bright and clear red
19:24 lisac 1 2  3  4  5
19:24 red-NaN but somone might see muted dark red
19:24 red-NaN lisac, colors are disabled here
19:24 lisac oh :(
19:27 red-NaN huh I though of another optimaztion for my .rainbow command
19:27 red-NaN I don't need to add colour codes for spaces, etc
19:30 octacian Wait, no colours here? Really?
19:30 octacian So, no red?
19:31 octacian Doesn't look disabled to me...
19:31 red-NaN oh don't you dare
19:31 octacian Why not? :P
19:31 red-NaN I don't want to become NaC-NaN
19:32 * octacian is so tempted to load his rainbow extension...
19:32 red-NaN well it wouldn't work
19:32 octacian You sure?
19:32 red-NaN yeah
19:32 octacian Didn't the red work?
19:32 red-NaN I'm sure
19:32 octacian heh, Well, either way, no time xD
19:33 DS-minetest these colors work
19:33 red-NaN Unless this is orange
19:33 octacian Nope, not orange
19:39 Jordach Two number 9's; a number 9 large; a number 6, extra dip; a number 7; two number 45's, one with cheese; and a large soda.
19:40 * Shara likes the sound of NaC-NaN.
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19:49 octacian red-NaN: BTW, a note about your GUIPathSelect PR. Rather than returning data via one of two different field names, could all the data be returned as a table to one field name?
19:52 * DS-minetest just recognizes now, how easy it is to make a calculator clientmod. why should any function be forbidden?!
19:52 red-NaN you mean the _accepted and _canceled?
19:53 octacian Yeah. It can be pretty annoying to handle
19:53 red-NaN well thats the way the old code worked and I just kepted it
19:53 red-NaN since I didn't want to re-write the input handler
19:54 octacian Well, if you are able to at some point I think it'd be a major improvement
19:55 nerzhul_ joined #minetest-hub
19:56 red-NaN well the only table I could return from what I can see would be a json table
19:57 octacian No way to just return a normal lua table? huh
20:00 red-NaN no
20:00 red-NaN this is too far removed from lua
20:01 octacian I see
20:06 red-NaN DS-minetest, second view
20:07 red-NaN oh neat can I crash the client with this?
20:07 tenplus1 ???
20:07 DS-minetest heh, you found it
20:08 DS-minetest perhaps you can
20:09 red-NaN oh lol 1/0 is inf
20:10 red-NaN hey I can inject code
20:10 red-NaN neato
20:10 red-NaN so neat but please never make a server-sided port of this
20:11 DS-minetest sure XD
20:11 red-NaN it will be kinda useful for dev
20:11 red-NaN hey maybe rename the command to .lua
20:11 red-NaN and pretend the code injection is a feature
20:12 DS-minetest hm, i will add a .lua command, that doesn't add return in front
20:12 red-NaN it's pretty neat because it doesn't crash on error
20:12 red-NaN nooo
20:13 red-NaN keep that
20:13 red-NaN this makes it print the erros
20:13 red-NaN errors*
20:14 red-NaN or no??
20:14 DS-minetest yes, but you can't do all
20:14 DS-minetest hmm
20:14 Amaz left #minetest-hub
20:14 DS-minetest no, it still shows the errors
20:14 red-NaN huh it prints some errors but not others
20:14 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub
20:14 red-NaN nvm
20:15 DS-minetest added
20:15 red-NaN my error jus happened to be prefectly legal lua code
20:16 red-NaN maybe also run dump() on the output
20:17 red-NaN or not
20:17 red-NaN the user can do that
20:18 DS-minetest hm, the errors also seem to be in terminal printed
20:18 Jordach i found why my internet is worse than Fixer's
20:18 Jordach now at sub 4mbit
20:19 Jordach ping spikes to over 2sec
20:20 Jordach ISP is currently installing new cabinets and shit
20:20 Jordach so half of the support networks are disabled while new fiber is laid and ready to roll
20:21 tenplus1 nite all
20:21 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:21 * DS-minetest sadly didn't yet manage to finish the mod that shall get the pos of a thing with the help of 2 sights
20:32 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
20:36 Fuchs joined #minetest-hub
20:47 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
20:48 red-NaN someone got a cloak
20:48 red-NaN and setup sasl?
20:49 bigfoot547 I have a cloack and sasl
20:49 bigfoot547 cloak*
20:50 bigfoot547 why?
20:51 red-NaN I just noticed thats all
20:51 bigfoot547 noticed what?
20:51 red-NaN that you have a cloak duh
20:51 Calinou I have both
20:52 Calinou The unaffiliated cloak! The scalpel of accuracy! The epitome of trolling!
20:52 bigfoot547 How can it be used for trolling?
20:53 Calinou it makes for cheap ban evasion
20:54 bigfoot547 Sounds like fun!
21:02 Fixer hmmmmm
21:02 Fixer wait a sec
21:02 Fixer so chat6 csm mod I'm using causing problems for other people?
21:02 red-NaN no
21:03 red-NaN DS-minetest's hi and my colour chat mod are annoying peple
21:03 Fixer red-NaN: how?
21:04 Fixer is not it just client-side coloring? o_0
21:04 red-NaN no
21:04 red-NaN my mod changes the colour of chat the player sends using the chat message send API
21:04 Fixer now i'm confused
21:04 Fixer red-NaN: i'm using cheapies one
21:04 red-NaN his mod does something diffrent
21:05 red-NaN it modifys the way incoming chat is displayed
21:07 Fixer [Clientmod] say automatically hi to everybody [hi] (New posts)
21:07 Fixer LOL
21:07 Fixer now i understand this drama
21:07 red-NaN ^
21:07 DS-minetest heh, it's not that annoying on servers where not that many players join
21:08 red-NaN I think I have a problem
21:08 red-NaN "Your repositories 36"
21:08 red-NaN this is getting out of hand
21:08 Fixer DS-minetest: imagine server like Hometown with 40 people, say 5 of them have Hi, and every minute 10 people joins and exits, so you end up with 50 hi
21:09 DS-minetest lol, true, if everyone has hi XD
21:09 nerzhul being polite is now a problem :p
21:09 red-NaN I can't decide if thats more like a pyraimid scheme or a smart DDoS attack
21:09 DS-minetest but it can already be annoying with one player having hi, eh. on just test 2
21:09 red-NaN like one of those reflection attacks
21:09 DS-minetest eg*
21:10 red-NaN DS-minetest, at least it doesn't anwser to "Hi"'s
21:10 DS-minetest ha
21:10 red-NaN and now I want to code that
21:10 DS-minetest no, it says once hi on connection to everyone
21:10 red-NaN just to see what would happen
21:11 red-NaN ** queue evil background sounds and music **
21:16 red-NaN ok
21:17 red-NaN :( the github license choicer doesn't support CC0
21:18 Calinou red-NaN: it can *detect* CC0 though
21:19 Calinou I'm pretty sure
21:19 Calinou https://creativecommons.org/pu​blicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode
21:19 Calinou paste the text starting from "Statement of Purpose" in a LICENSE.txt file
21:19 Calinou or, https://github.com/idleberg​/Creative-Commons-Markdown
21:19 Calinou (it's in 4.0 folder)
21:20 red-NaN lol .markdown?
21:21 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
21:21 red-NaN but is the license under CC0?
21:21 bigfoot547 !title
21:21 ShadowBot GitHub - idleberg/Creative-Commons-Markdown: Markdown-formatted Creative Commons licenses
21:24 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
21:24 Calinou just rename .markdown to .md if you want
21:24 Calinou heck, some people use .mdown
21:24 Calinou but .md won the battle
21:24 Calinou (by far)
21:24 red-NaN oh this is ironic
21:25 red-NaN the license file is a lot larger then my code
21:27 Calinou CC0 isn't small
21:27 Calinou but it's legally valid (probably)
21:27 Calinou you may want to prefer the MIT license for code
21:27 bigfoot547 Well, anything is better than wtfpl
21:27 Calinou (but keep on using CC0 for assets)
21:27 Calinou this ^
21:27 red-NaN why so?
21:27 Calinou MIT is shorter, and OSI-approved, unlike CC0
21:27 Calinou CC0 is FSF-approved but not OSI-approved
21:28 red-NaN please tell me why that should be important to me
21:28 red-NaN was it not approved on legal grounds?
21:28 bigfoot547 I just use the LGPL v2.1+.
21:28 red-NaN or ideological grounds
21:28 Calinou red-NaN: legal grounds
21:28 Calinou if you read CC0, you'll see that it explicitly denies any form of patent grant
21:28 Calinou no other open source license does this
21:29 Calinou GPLv3 and Apache 2 *grant* patent licenses
21:29 Calinou the other ones don't, but it could be seen as implicit
21:29 Calinou CC0 tells licenses, "you'll never have patent licenses, no matter what"
21:29 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
21:29 red-NaN well I don't think I'm going to get a patent for striping some colour codes
21:29 Calinou and this is why Creative Commons pulled the CC0 from being OSI-approved
21:29 Calinou (they submitted it a while ago)
21:29 Calinou red-NaN: software patents might not be an issue for you in this case, but they can be in larger projects
21:29 Calinou (probably a good reason to not use CC0 on large software)
21:29 Calinou (or particularly innovative software)
21:30 red-NaN well I suppose it's useful for people that don't want a patent
21:31 red-NaN well the license auto-detection didn't work with the markdown file
21:31 red-NaN https://github.com/red-001/colour_blind
21:32 bigfoot547 !title
21:32 ShadowBot GitHub - red-001/colour_blind: A minetest CSM mod for removing all colour from incoming messages.
21:32 red-NaN and yes I'm going to spell it "colour" everywhere but in the code
21:33 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
21:43 DS-minetest colour_carrier also uses "colour" in code
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21:45 DS-minetest if register_on_receiving_chat_messages returns true, the other functions aren't executed, right?
21:46 red-NaN yeah
21:46 red-NaN oh come one
21:47 red-NaN on*
21:47 red-NaN don't ninja me
21:47 Fixer JUST ONE MORE YEAR AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY
21:47 Fixer Lua CSM start up idea
21:48 Fixer worst idea ever ofc
21:48 Fixer implement chat bot (neural networks one with big database) and connect to server...
21:49 Fixer other player can also join with this bot
21:49 Fixer and you start bot vs bot talks
21:49 Fixer ingame
21:50 Fixer or with clean database
21:50 Fixer bots record players messages
21:50 Fixer and start talking with this MOM/MUM/DAD insanity
21:51 Fixer this is perfect for 2b2t like gameplay
21:54 red-NaN you are a mad man
21:55 red-NaN so when are we starting?
21:55 Fixer red-NaN: bot with bot talks actually happened on jabber server long ago
21:58 red-NaN well I once got two irc bots into a loop
21:58 Fixer both bots had big talk databases and it was pretty fun to read
21:58 red-NaN a lot of spam was generated that day
21:59 Fixer that days
21:59 Fixer separate room was made just for those two bots
22:08 Fixer CYBERWHOOPEE
22:10 sfan5 CYBER BRITISH ELECTIONS
22:11 srifqi Bot which plays Minetest?
22:12 srifqi No?
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22:19 Fixer https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/DBymQBvWsAAFXSn.jpg:large
22:19 Fixer *_*
22:23 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
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23:03 octacian Well, I'm going to be away for the weekend. Cya'll later!
23:03 bigfoot547 Bye
23:14 Fixer our old friend Sadie is back
23:14 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/EBFrtda.png
23:15 red-inf On hometown?
23:16 Fixer yep
23:16 Fixer PART FISH @ PART GIRL @ I DON"T FIT YOUR WORLD
23:17 Fixer cccombo https://i.imgur.com/q9RBew8.png
23:17 Fixer 70% of players have those names
23:17 bigfoot547 How do you mean?
23:18 bigfoot548 Fixer, ?
23:18 Fixer also this https://i.imgur.com/h3H1Rbm.png
23:18 Fixer bigfoot548: EnglishNameNNN
23:18 bigfoot548 oh
23:18 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/UgxKMIo.png that was fast
23:19 bigfoot548 I remeber taking a look at one of the apps that did this
23:19 bigfoot548 but I lost the research and I don't remeber it's name
23:20 Fixer cupcakes everywhere
23:31 Jordach fucking priceless
23:31 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/HJtQcrC.jpg
23:31 red-inf xD
23:32 Jordach supporting communism makes you a fucking retard
23:32 Jordach and by extension makes you sort of guilty for supporting the deaths of millions
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