Time Nick Message 00:33 Vtower when you meet someone and they say they dont watch the simpsons, south park, family, robot chicken, rwen and stimpy, or even futurama 00:33 Vtower family guy* 00:36 bigfoot547 Sooo.... 00:37 Vtower its so sad 06:37 TommyTreasure possible off topic. can anyone assist me with the syntax for the irc command to require voice on an irc channel. my attacker can no longer get into the game, and has found our game's irc channel to be his attack method 09:46 Shara Morning all 09:47 red-001 morning 09:47 Shara Hi red-001 :) 09:49 DS-minetest morning 09:55 Krock hi Shara 09:56 Shara Hi Krock, hi DS-minetest 09:56 Shara Another round of attacks on DL to clean up on :( 10:13 CWz Shara, wasn't DL locked off to new players? 10:13 Shara They got on the IRC channel 10:13 Shara That's now locked down too 10:14 CWz Ya need the CyborPolice 10:14 Shara It's always when I'm away 10:20 CWz I am confused to why they are still attacking 10:20 Fuchs TommyTreasure: hi 10:20 Fuchs TommyTreasure: is that channel on freenode? 10:21 TommyTreasure Fuchs, pm please? 10:21 Fuchs sure 10:22 Shara Fuchs: It's on freenode. 10:22 lisac Shara, maybe you should require email in order to get interact. That way, they'd have to go to a lot more trouble to cause any problems. 10:22 Shara Could I pleased be involved in any talks regarding this channel though, since it is me running it 10:23 Shara lisac: That's something I thought about in the past, and it would be horrible. Many of the players don't have email addresses (some children are not allowed) 10:23 Shara please* 10:23 CWz Hmm about read rules for interact 10:23 Shara CWz: Interact isn't the problem though. 10:24 Shara It's the spam 10:24 Shara This is really nasty racist stuff, among other things, getting spammed into chat 10:24 Shara It's not even things a filter could easily catch. 10:24 Fuchs Shara: augh 10:24 Fuchs Shara / TommyTreasure: /join ##foobar-mt-discuss-blabla 10:26 CWz Fuchs, might want to put password so one would be snooping as usual 10:26 Fuchs CWz: I'm pretty sure I can remove people if needed 10:26 Fuchs it's only very temporary anyway 10:29 TommyTreasure Shara, i only asked for pm to keep it out of the room. i wasn't aware of topic prior to chat. my apologies 10:30 shivajiva why is clearing single armor items using inventory manipulation so difficult? 10:31 Shara No problem TommyTreasure. It's just that I like to be in the loop about channels I'm meant to be running :) 10:33 shivajiva I take the items, refresh the formspec and the item is sat there in the slot but the player isn't wearing it, moving it to another slot makes it wearable, did I miss something? 10:34 TommyTreasure Shara, i've just decided to keep as low profile appearance as possible 10:35 Shara It won't make any difference 10:35 TommyTreasure yes it will! it'll keep me from getting myself in trouble! lol 10:37 TommyTreasure less activity = less targeting = life easier for everyone else 10:40 CWz Shara does your server have basic_mechines? 10:40 Shara CWz: Nope 10:40 CWz good 10:41 red-001 why? 10:41 Shara TommyTreasure: These kinds of people will do what they do, regardless of whether you are there. It's only an easier life for you :) 10:43 red-001 well its a very specific "backdoor" 10:44 red-001 looks like he hardcoded his nick in some sort of test command 10:44 red-001 CWz, someone already posted this on the forum 10:44 red-001 anyway the ofending line https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic_machines/blob/9a66471390cdc4f2f9ee8bafdaf7c3dfe56916cd/mover.lua#L1302 10:47 Krock Offtopic: I'm glad this doesn't apply to Minetest http://imgur.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/ZyNvqMg 10:48 shivajiva clearly missing the server admin tier at the bottom lol 10:49 red-001 https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/6f4of7/no_need_to_overcomplicate_things_with_the_volume/ 10:51 Krock shivajiva, lol yeah 11:03 Krock red-001, our cheat prevention: http://imgur.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/bYiIN56 11:05 red-001 lol 11:05 Fixer VanessaE: do you have that multiplying entities bug on your servers? 11:07 Fixer wtf about those volume sliders? 11:08 red-001 Fixer, reddit being reddit 11:09 * Fixer googles 11:11 Fixer red-001: you should post on rnd machines topic about this 11:12 Jordach https://i.redd.it/6iwmt9ojzf1z.jpg 11:16 red-001 Fixer, someone already did 11:18 Fixer red-001: i'm not sure rnd did it for malicious intentions, he developed that mod running on actual servers, so he probably did it for convinience, will ask maikerumine about that 11:19 Fixer red-001: but ofc it needs to be disabled 11:19 Fixer removed* 11:30 red-001 hey if he wanted to me evil he would have used that anti-cheat mod for it 11:59 Fixer red-001: contacted him, he will rework it 12:32 Wayward_One hi all :) 13:12 Jordach Lua: What if game developers got tired of C++? 13:13 Jordach fuck 13:14 Krock huh 13:14 Jordach TypeScript: JavaScript with a condom 13:15 Jordach Hiring PHP developers does not contribute to the quota of employees with disabilities. 13:17 Jordach wtf 13:17 Jordach PowerPoint is TURING COMPLETE 13:17 Jordach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjxe8ShM-8 13:21 Jordach Calinou, rubenwardy, benrob0329-latop, Shara 13:21 Jordach go see that video 13:26 Krock 1600 animations :o 13:29 Shara Jordach: somehow, I'm not sure how, but somehow, this manages to feel relevant to the exam I'm trying to prepare for :D 13:44 Fixer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBd9C-dXkAA2Eg_.jpg:large 13:46 Krock Fixer, and once again the JPEG compression made it look much worse 14:20 VanessaE Fixer: multiplying entities, yes. mostly on my creative server, though I haven't checked recently if they're still being created. 14:22 VanessaE (on Dreambuilder/30000 that is) 14:26 CWz_ Its the paramat 14:26 paramat hi. rdococ please could you ask a channel op for voice? we like to have everyone voiced here 14:33 Shara Seems he's just not identified 14:34 CWz_ if not identified that could only mean... That rdococ is a spy! 14:35 Shara I'm too lazy to voice people who are on the list but are too lazy to identify :) 14:43 CWz Shara have the ongoing attacks ceased yet 14:44 Shara RC had a ddos earlier today as well. 14:44 Shara I lost bouncer connection for about ten minutes due to it 14:44 Shara No idea if related to the DL attacks or not. 14:44 CWz Well, f***... well back in my day, nobody ddosed servers 14:45 Shara Even had email from my provider due to it 14:45 red-001 :( 14:46 red-001 I assume it's the same people that have been hacking the server? 14:46 Shara No way to tell really. 14:46 red-001 yeah I suppsoe 14:46 Shara RC isn't even hosted on the same server as DL, so may or may not be related 14:46 red-001 suppose* 14:46 Shara And DL attacks haven't included ddos, as far as I know 14:51 CWz DarKLands seem to attact a lot of evilings 14:51 Shara It's only really been... since certain events. 14:55 rubenwardy what form was the DDoS? 14:57 CWz There are multiple froms? 14:57 rubenwardy classic connection hogging, large payloads, ping of death 14:58 Shara Not sure in all honesty. 14:58 rubenwardy do you know whether it was against Minetest or a HTTP server? 14:58 rubenwardy just interested 14:58 Fixer now kids can ddos 14:58 Shara No, and very limited time to try and figure it out right now. 14:59 rubenwardy ah, ok :P 15:01 Shara There's very little there to target other than the MT server though 15:03 Jordach >trying to beat XFCE4 into place 15:03 Jordach >installs KDE 15:03 Jordach m a d m a n 15:03 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/dW02END.png 15:04 Krock no, it's not the END. 15:04 Krock we will continue 15:04 Fixer Krock: wat? 15:05 Krock see the URL 15:05 Fixer Krock: what url? 15:05 Fixer ._____. 15:05 Krock interpreting your face makes me feel that you've seen it 15:06 Fixer Krock: we will continue what? 15:06 * Fixer adds two more mods into mod folder 15:06 Krock programming, testing, fixing and playing Minetest :^) 15:07 Fixer Krock: agree 15:07 Fixer Wuzzy seems to increase bug report production recently 15:08 red-001 hi 15:08 Calinou hi 15:08 red-001 my password is aHVudGVyMg== 15:08 Fixer from what? 15:09 Fixer maaaaaaaaaake a moooooooooooooove 15:09 Fixer it is all in your head 15:09 Fixer https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6f6s20/minetest_0416_released_open_source/ 15:09 Fixer ^^ 15:09 Fixer failure 15:11 Fixer it is funny to read "minetest is for poor people who can't afford minecraft" what the fuck they talk about, even 3 yr old can DL pirated launcher of MC... 15:12 red-001 whats pirating? 15:12 Calinou it's when you surf the high seas of the Web! :D 15:12 red-001 oh so it's like a sailor 15:13 Fixer *emoji with hands* 15:13 Krock yarr harr 15:13 red-001 well I suppose it's a bit more intenset then just surfing? 15:14 Krock surfing with just one eye 15:14 red-001 huh we call it the web be we sure love using sea metaphors 15:14 red-001 Krock, sounds intense 15:14 red-001 you have like no 3d vision then 15:15 Krock does that matter? your surfing simulator display is 2D anyway 15:15 Fixer 1.5d vision 15:16 Fixer if only we had colored clay for 0.5 MTG 15:19 Fixer https://www.reddit.com/r/thisismylifenow/comments/6f6tja/this_guy_benchpressing_a_goose_at_la_park/ 15:19 Fixer now this is unexpected 15:19 red-001 hi dtscode 15:19 red-001 someone should give them voice 15:20 Krock or (s)he should request voice 15:20 red-001 well I suppose so 15:22 red-001 dtscode, if you want to talk in this channel send a PM to one of the OP's asking for voice 15:23 paramat and please 'identify' your nick with Nickserv 15:23 red-001 paramat, they have 15:23 red-001 notice the cloak 15:24 benrob0329-latop Jordach: oh gosh why 15:24 Shara I will voice, if someone can either tell me who it is, or they PM me 15:28 red-001 huh I saw the nick "nchambers" before 15:29 Shara Yea, same, but can't place it 15:29 Calinou they're in other channels I'm in 15:29 Calinou probably a legit person :P 15:29 Shara Hmm, let's see what happens then 15:30 red-001 well they are staff at learnprogramming 15:30 Calinou also, I'm in the process of making 0.4.16/Git AppImages 15:30 red-001 and that is a reasoably large channel 15:30 Fixer https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2017-05-30/road-to-xfce-4.14-part-2.html 15:33 Krock Calinou, you'd have to revert some commits to build the "stable" one, if it's what you want 15:34 Krock s/revert/reset/ 15:34 Calinou Krock: I know 15:34 Calinou I'm building master and stable 0.4.16 in parallel anyway 15:34 Calinou my script can build an arbitrary number of branches 15:34 Krock okay 15:40 Fuchs dtscode is fine 15:40 Fuchs I have no idea why he is in here 15:40 Fuchs but he has been on this network long enough and I know him 15:41 Fixer https://i.redd.it/c9bvt4fn0v0z.jpg 15:42 Calinou is his password "aligator5"? 15:49 Fixer lets see how master compiles for me 15:53 DS-minetest Krock: is that you? 15:58 * red-001 starts to hate lua 15:58 red-001 of course it converts strings into number 15:58 red-001 but not when you are expecting it to 16:02 Fixer does not compile to me, unfortunately, that means I will need to wait two weeks for Debian 9 and upgrade my build VM 16:04 Krock DS-minetest, maybe. 16:04 * Krock is amused that his Win XP machine beats Linux for once 16:04 Krock even if it's only a few distributions 16:04 Calinou my parents might finally get new machines 16:05 Calinou they do office work mostly, but their current ones are very slow 16:05 Calinou and one of them also manages to be very noisy 16:05 Calinou both all-in-ones 16:06 Fixer Calinou: heared Pentium 4 3.6GHz machine in office, holy fuck it was noisy and hot, temp was approaching 67*C in idle, my Northwood 2.8GHz was like 30*C at idle, Presscot crap? 16:07 Calinou a new PC should be built for one of them, with a Pentium G4560 or something 16:07 Calinou it's a 2-core, 4-thread CPU at 3.5 GHz 16:07 Calinou pretty nice, and fairly cheap 16:07 Calinou should be quite power-saving too 16:07 Calinou (it's Kaby Lake) 16:07 Fixer Calinou: do multiseat :trollface: 16:07 Calinou heh 16:09 Krock Calinou, I've seen a video about a quite cheap setup recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epIlB49SNTI 16:12 rubenwardy thanks for adding authors to the changelog, red-001 16:16 rubenwardy Please may a french speaker ask what graphics card (integrated or otherwise) they use? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17794&view=unread#unread 16:16 rubenwardy and also the opengl version 16:16 Calinou I saw that topic, people are talking about it in #minetest-fr 16:17 rubenwardy kk 16:17 Calinou I'll reply on IRC 16:17 Calinou also, hi rubenwardy :) 16:17 rubenwardy make sure you post a link though, for future readers :) 16:17 rubenwardy Hi 16:17 Calinou I learned about a fancy trick to build AppImages without path errors 16:17 Calinou well, path warnings actually 16:17 Calinou the infamous "WARNING: could not find..." that popped whenever someone ran an AppImage of mine 16:24 * Jordach runs pacman -Syyu 16:24 Jordach ain't nobody got time fo octopi 16:32 Fixer Krock: if you want some advanced ### with compiling, try MSYS2/mingw64 on windows 16:32 Fixer every time I try it, I fail 16:33 Fixer everything works, except at compilation or linking, i don't remember, fucker won't find needed libraries for strange reasons 16:33 Krock Fixer, well thanks for the offer but MSVC was already pita enough 16:33 Krock maybe you linked the libs wrongly or it has troubles with unicode paths 16:36 Fixer no unicode 16:36 Fixer no spaces 16:36 Fixer it was weird 16:36 Fixer i rage quitted 16:37 Krock o/ nerzhul 16:40 nerzhul Krock, ? 16:40 nerzhul hi Krock 16:40 nerzhul why o/ ? 16:40 Fixer tried to read this http://www.mingw.org/wiki/includepathhowto, but still wth it is not working as easy as in linux mingw -_- 16:40 Krock why not? 50% chance to be greeted this way 16:41 nerzhul oh, it's better chance than loto :D 16:41 Krock huh? "loto"? 16:41 Krock oh 16:41 Krock lotto 16:41 nerzhul lotto in english sorry :) 16:42 Krock Fixer, here I defined all paths as absolute ones, using cmake-gui 16:43 Krock starting with a minimal build first (no freetype or sound) 16:44 Fixer https://pastebin.com/raw/5vDjHfFQ 16:44 Krock and then successive testing until done 16:44 Fixer it has search list for headers 16:45 Fixer i've tried to place irrlicht headers literally into everything 16:45 Fixer in any layouts possible 16:45 Fixer up to dumping everything as big pile 16:51 Fixer Calinou: remind me again on how to update everything via pacman, please 16:51 Jordach pacman -Syy 16:51 Calinou pacman -Syu 16:51 Calinou (with sudo) 16:51 Jordach pacman -Ssyu 16:51 Jordach or the above 16:53 Krock pacman -Svacousswitches 16:53 Krock *vacuous 16:55 Fixer thanks 16:55 Fixer updating 16:55 Fixer will try to approach that mess again 16:55 Calinou pacman -Abcdefghij... 16:55 Calinou :D 16:55 Fixer make compiling great agin 16:55 Fixer again 16:55 Fixer or faster at least 16:56 Fixer under VM it is abysmally slow 16:56 Fixer 15 minutes 16:56 Fixer :( 16:56 Fixer the problem in itself is this case: 16:56 Fixer #include 16:56 Fixer #include 16:56 Fixer #include "CGUITTFont.h" 16:56 nerzhul Krock, you moved to archlinux ? 16:56 Fixer don't remember what, but it either can't find guys in < > or in " " 16:57 Krock nerzhul, huh? no, just playing a bit with this command argument 16:58 nerzhul okay 17:11 red-001 sudo pacman -Syu --no-preserve-root 17:18 Calinou keeping a backup of my VMs has proven to be really helpful for OS migrations 17:18 Calinou so I keep my settings around, for once :P 17:19 Calinou also, woo, I reached 5,800 link karma on Reddit :D 17:19 Calinou and the reply to the first comment on the /r/linux post has -79 points :D 17:20 red-001 wow that early comment got downvoted all the way down 17:20 Krock Calinou, and what benefits do you have of this high karma? 17:21 red-001 ahh and I was ninja'd again 17:21 Calinou Krock: it looks good on my resume 17:21 red-001 hi IhrFussel 17:21 Calinou ;) 17:21 Krock some forumers think the same of their post count 17:21 Krock hi IhrFussel 17:22 red-001 Krock, wait are you telling me that forum post counts are meaningless? 17:22 red-001 that can't be 17:22 Krock red-001, they're overrated sometimes as it depends on the content quality 17:23 IhrFussel I find it funny that starting a thread doesn't count as "post" 17:23 Calinou perfect, my Minetest AppImages (both master and stable) work on Debian 8 and Fedora 25 :) 17:23 Krock neither does it if you post in the news section 17:24 IhrFussel Oh and hi back to you red-001 and Krock ^^ 17:24 Krock o/ 17:25 red-001 \o 17:28 IhrFussel Can someone tell me what the sneak options are? I have no clue which behavior to choose 17:29 IhrFussel If I understood it correctly there is an old behavior and a new one...and many dislike the new one...correct? 17:29 red-001 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17397 17:30 paramat ^ that 17:30 red-001 new behavior, new behavior that imitates the old one and old behavior 17:53 CWz ShadowBot, tell tenplus1 so there is milk bucket in mobs_redo... why isn't there a milk_source and milk_flowing? this is been bugging me, man! 17:53 ShadowBot CWz: O.K. 17:54 paramat heh milk source is cow? 17:57 Calinou is milk open source? 17:59 Raven262 Oddly enough, I'm working on a game that actually has milk source and flowing milk, also has cookies. 18:00 IhrFussel So the "old move code" will be deprecated when 0.5.0 releases, but the newer one that imitates the old one will continue to exist? 18:01 IhrFussel Or will all options be replaced by a completely new one? 18:10 Krock IhrFussel, depending on the player's opinion of the new sneak code's bugs/features there's still the PR 5533 pending to provide yet another algorithm 18:10 Krock but the behaviour overall will stay about the same 18:11 Krock i.e. sneak_glitch switch for sneak ladders and no falling down when releasing sneak 18:11 Krock s/sneak/sne*k/g 18:15 IhrFussel Krock, I honestly never used any sneak glitches/hacks/tricks ... is the old code the one that allows to jump higher when sneaking? 18:15 Krock both codes do 18:16 Krock if you mean double node jumps: afaik not possible anymore in the new sneak code due a different node position calculation 18:16 IhrFussel Cause right now I use 0.4.16-dev with default code and there is no higher jump so it seems to be disabled 18:17 IhrFussel Ok so the old code is required for 2 node high jumps 18:18 Krock yes 18:18 Krock (or a modified jump velocity setting) 18:24 Calinou ok, got automatic SHA-256 file generation to work 18:36 paramat "the newer one that imitates the old one will continue to exist?" yes 18:36 paramat the 'sneak glitch' physics override enables a new replication of sneak ladders and 2 node sneak jump 18:36 garywhite so no more 2-node jumps? 18:37 paramat "double node jumps: afaik not possible anymore in the new sneak code due a different node position calculation" 2 node sneak jump is replicated and works 18:38 paramat for 2 node sneak jump you can use new move code plus 'sneak glitch' 18:39 paramat "so the old code is required for 2 node high jumps" no, also supported by new move code as an option 18:40 paramat Krock should know all this :] 18:41 paramat IhrFussel ^ 18:41 IhrFussel paramat, wait so if I use the 4 code lines from the forum for "old code" do I still need to enable anything else if I want the entire old behavior? 18:41 paramat you don't, enabling 'old move code' gets you exactly old behaviour with sneak jump and sneak ladders enabled 18:42 paramat and yes at 0.5 the 'old move code' option will be removed 18:42 paramat then you will have new sneak code with an option for 2 node sneak jump and sneak ladders 18:43 paramat the new move code has been improving and may improve further with Krock's work 18:44 paramat the only issues left are minor, apart from one issue which is important to someone here :] 18:44 paramat new sneak code is fairly good now, but cannot be exactly the same as before 18:45 paramat 0.5 gives us an excuse to remove the old code completely and break some parkour worlds 18:49 IhrFussel And maybe to make all physics server-side /s :P 18:50 IhrFussel I mean the calculations 19:16 garywhite what is the rarest block in MT now? 19:19 paramat cloud or dirt with footsteps? 19:20 garywhite oh, I though it was mese or diamond blocks 19:22 IhrFussel You didn't say "minetest_game" so rainbow ore on my server 19:27 paramat well, of nodes actually generated in vanilla, mese block probably 19:27 paramat cloud and dirt with footsteps are in MTG but only to support old worlds 19:43 garywhite You guys finally added a percentage to the media load 19:49 Jordach EXCELLENTE TYPO 19:49 Jordach Player data can now be into database 19:52 Krock google "php/c" 19:53 Krock ^ offtopic, sorry 19:56 garywhite I used to get a command prompt window that would print all the stuff to debug, now there is no such thing 19:57 garywhite what happened? 19:59 Krock garywhite, in the Windows build? start it with --console or from cmd directly 19:59 garywhite Well, that sucks...I used to be able to quit much quicker by just Alt+F4ing the console window 20:00 Krock just change your minetest links to start it with the additional param 20:01 Krock there's also the "enable_console" setting but I'm not getting it to work 20:02 garywhite idk where it is, I'll worry about it tomorrow. I gotta go in a little while so I'll just take care of it later 20:04 Fixer remind me please, command to look up the location of file in NIX 20:04 Fixer that shows path to file 20:06 Fixer Error running link command: ╨Э╨╡ 20:06 Fixer what the fuck 20:06 Fixer forgot dots 20:22 Fixer $ make[1]: *** [Makefile:276: cmake_check_build_system] Interrupt 20:22 Fixer .________________. 20:25 Calinou >when even CMake doesn't believe in your compiler 20:29 Krock let's compile it with Borland 20:33 garywhite what about BASIC? 20:35 Krock basic is not a compiler 20:36 Fixer Calinou: it also exits in weird way into CMD itself, and not into bash 20:37 Fixer passes cmake and then stops on cmake_check_build_system with any errors 20:38 nerzhul nice to see many projects are switching to C++11; https://sourceware.org/ml/gdb-announce/2017/msg00003.html 20:54 IhrFussel WTH is my hoster doing?! dmesg is full of [2499598.408615] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Down [2499615.567461] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex, Flow Control: None 21:13 nerzhul http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/math/signbit 21:13 nerzhul lol 21:15 Krock wow great. a function that implements (number & MSB) != 0 21:16 nerzhul Krock, some STL functions are just... STL for STL :p but they are there and prvent coding errors heh 21:17 nerzhul https://twitter.com/mrkkrj/status/854241747936915456 this is an excellent usage of unique_ptr to properly finish C resources 21:22 dtscode thanks shara <3 21:23 nerzhul ty ShadowBot 21:24 IhrFussel OMG it just happened again...my dedicated machine is losing the connection to the network! That's unacceptable 21:24 dtscode what provider? 21:24 IhrFussel Strato (German) 21:24 Fixer make -f CMakeFiles\Makefile2 all 21:24 Fixer Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601] 21:25 * Fixer thinks 21:25 dtscode IhrFussel: fwiw, ramnode has never gone down for me 21:28 IhrFussel Look at this! https://pastebin.com/PrZvXufF ... there is nothing I can do here, I can't even operate the machine due to connection loss 21:30 Fixer $(MAKE) -f lib\gmp\CMakeFiles\gmp.dir\build.make lib/gmp/CMakeFiles/gmp.dir/depend 21:30 Fixer \ \ \ 0 / / / 21:30 garywhite Windows 6.1.7601...that's 7, according to my records 21:31 Krock 5 is 2000, 6.1 is 7 and 10 is 10 math mind = blown 21:33 garywhite They never kept it straight 21:33 IhrFussel Krock, what's XP then? and Vista? 21:34 Krock 6.0 is vista, 5.1 xp 21:34 Krock and somewhere there's Neptune 21:37 garywhite 1.0,2.0,3.0,3.1,3,11,3.5,3.51,4.0 (95/NT),4.1 (98), 4.9 (ME), 5.0 (2000), 5.1 (XP), 6.0 (Vista), 6.1 (7), 6.2 (8), 6.3 (8.1), 10 (10) 21:37 Krock funny enough that ME was released after 2000 21:39 Fixer fatal error: endian.h: No such file or directory 21:39 Fixer .__________. 21:45 Fixer SHELL = cmd.exe 21:45 Fixer ._. 21:49 Fixer mingw32-make ._o 21:51 Fixer goes DEEPER 21:52 Fixer *compiles* 21:53 Fixer oh boy 21:56 Fixer mingw stuff is confusing 21:57 Fixer 49% 21:58 Fixer and that fucker will ultimately fail at 100% or making final exe stage, probably 21:58 Fixer will see 21:59 Fixer sooo much faster than in VM 22:00 Fixer hoping final exe is not 32bit .____. 22:03 Fixer error at 100% 22:04 Fixer https://pastebin.com/raw/XKLXRhKV 22:04 Fixer leveldb related 22:04 Fixer lets disable it 22:13 Fixer compiles in 6 minutes 22:13 red-001 Fixer, if your system is like my system it will crash on start up 22:14 red-001 I installed the compiler and all 22:14 red-001 disabled leveldb because of that error 22:14 red-001 and I get a crash on startup as thanks 22:14 Fixer :) 22:15 Fixer red-001: linux? 22:15 red-001 yeah arch 22:15 Fixer thats is msys2/mingw64 under win7 22:15 Fixer that is* 22:16 red-001 bloody compiling in MSVC was easier then this, if you managed to get the precompiled libs 22:19 Fixer it gonna fail for sure again 22:19 Fixer IT COMPILED O_O 22:19 * Fixer turns up vaporwave volume 22:21 Fixer :o 22:21 Fixer it runs 22:22 Fixer GREAT SUCCESS 22:22 red-001 wow nice 22:23 red-001 Fixer++ 22:23 red-001 !points 22:23 red-001 !help 22:23 ShadowBot red-001: help [] [] 22:23 red-001 !list 22:23 ShadowBot red-001: Admin, Aka, Anonymous, BanNotify, Brainfuck, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Ctcp, DDG, Debug, DerplangPlus, Dict, Filter, FloodProtector, Format, Games, GitHub, Karma, Later, Logger, Math, MessageParser, Minetest, Misc, MoobotFactoids, Network, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Reply, Scheduler, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, Unix, User, Util, (1 more message) 22:23 Fixer NO STUTTERING 22:23 Fixer *?* 22:23 red-001 !help Karma 22:23 ShadowBot red-001: (karma [] [ ...]) -- Returns the karma of . If is not given, returns the top N karmas, where N is determined by the config variable supybot.plugins.Karma.rankingDisplay. If one is given, returns the details of its karma; if more than one is given, returns the total karma of each of the things. is only necessary if the message (1 more message) 22:23 red-001 !Karma 22:23 ShadowBot red-001: Highest karma: "Krock" (6), "red" (2), and "it's bad enough in C" (1). Lowest karma: "red-004" (-1), "is it the new evil lang" (-1), and "read-00" (-1). 22:24 red-001 !Karma Fixer 22:24 ShadowBot red-001: Karma for "Fixer" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. 22:32 red-001 wow youtube subtitle autogeneration has improved massivly 22:33 Fixer o.O 22:33 Fixer amazing 22:34 Fixer Hail to all black forces that helped me to compile via msys2/mingw64/gcc6: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBZeThXUIAAEbLK.jpg:large 22:35 Fixer _CLOSE TO NO STUTTERING IN SINGLEPLAYER_ 22:35 Fixer it appears, but in much less noticeably way 22:36 Fixer will do my special automated test to confirm 22:40 Fixer :O 22:42 Fixer could be ground breaking 22:43 Fixer time to visit VanessaE 22:43 VanessaE ? 22:43 VanessaE oh. 22:44 VanessaE better have a shovel handy 22:44 paramat FPS seems smoother to me since c55's work 22:44 VanessaE you'll need it to dig up the molten slag that was your computer 22:44 Fixer paramat: it was still very crappy for me, but when I seen msys2/mingw64 build... 22:45 Fixer will do fraps automated tests ofc 22:45 Fixer paramat: singleplayer was amasing, even near jungle 22:46 red-001 yeah I was an idiot 22:47 red-001 I forgot to copy some dlls 22:47 Fixer even on Vanessa Dreamb Surv it is much better than via older method 22:47 Fixer it is much nicer stutter 22:48 Fixer ground breaking 22:48 Fixer time for testing 22:49 Fixer will do same build via old method 22:49 VanessaE what, no molten slag? 22:49 * VanessaE adds more mods 22:49 VanessaE how about now? :P 22:49 Fixer VanessaE: that can be ground breaking 22:49 octacian What is with make rebuilding everything when I just changed some C++ in literally 2 files? 22:50 * red-001 honesly doesn't know 22:50 red-001 cmake seems to interact with make in werid ways 22:50 Fixer octacian: do not rerun cmake 22:50 Fixer octacian: just do make 22:50 octacian I just run the command "make", and it rebuilds everything 22:50 octacian That's all I do 22:50 Fixer should not 22:51 red-001 make auto reruns cmake sometimes 22:51 octacian Wonder if running "make -j$(nproc)" would help? IDK 22:51 red-001 I think it's for that version display thing 22:51 red-001 if it's just that I wish there was a way to disable it 22:52 octacian ugh.. Incredibly annoying though. I just wanna test if one thing works, and I'm like 3m 22:52 * octacian goes to Google 22:52 srifqi red-001, maybe because those files are included in many files? 22:53 red-001 could be 22:54 octacian Probably... Was working on lua_api/l_main_menu.cpp and l_main_menu.h 22:54 octacian But still, it's rebuilding literally everything 22:55 srifqi But, I was just changing a constant value and it only rebuild that file. .-. 22:56 * octacian is confused :rofl: 22:56 octacian On the plus side, finally finished rebuilding everything 22:57 red-001 https://transfer.sh/fYtvJ/minetest-0.4.16-win64.zip <- anyone want to be the test subject for a non RUN_IN_PLACE minetest windows build? 22:59 * red-001 reboots and becomes their own test subjetc 23:05 octacian And another thing on the bright side, is I just submitted my first, albeit simple, C++ PR :D 23:06 octacian red-001: Is anyone working on enabling/disabling clientmods in main menu? 23:06 red-001 no 23:06 octacian OK, good 23:06 red-001 sofar didn't like the idea 23:06 red-001 but then sofar disappred off to somewhere 23:06 octacian It should be available, either way. The very concept of no ability to manage client-side mods from the main menu is a bad idea IMO 23:07 red-001 well they are suppose to be mostly sent by the server 23:07 octacian Anyways, I've been working on rewriting the modmgr and will add support for installing/uninstalling and enabling/disabling clientmods to the API at the same time 23:07 octacian True, true. However, it could still be very useful to manage from the main menu. 23:07 red-001 this whole custom client supplied mods thing was not really planned 23:08 octacian heh, I see. 23:08 octacian Personally, I think it is quite nice 23:08 octacian Sure, sure. It does allow for more vulnerabilities (possibly), but IMO they're worth it. 23:09 octacian Plus, clientmods like the who and who_plus mods wouldn't likely be provided by the server. They are something that would be very useful to manage entirely client-side. 23:10 octacian So my current idea is to display client-side mods in the mods tab, when selected show that they are clientmods just beneath the title and can be enabled/disabled from there 23:10 red-001 http://i.imgur.com/7QebRcO.png 23:10 Fixer msys2/mingw64 full compile - 7 min @ 4 threads | debian vm mingw64 - 15 min @ 2 threads 23:10 red-001 it works!! 23:11 red-001 and yes I'm running as admin feel free to say my security is shitty 23:11 red-001 octacian, that's a decent idea 23:11 red-001 CSM modding got a bit of a bad rep due to oredetect 23:12 Fixer time for FRAPS 23:12 octacian Yeah... 23:12 octacian I honestly wouldn't worry so much though. 23:12 red-001 also I didn't expect someone to already notice my first CSM mod fork 23:13 octacian Every once in a while I get bored and just stalk the forums for new posts :rofl: 23:13 red-001 lol 23:13 Fixer brb 23:13 octacian Have you also considered adding a button to teleport to the player? Maybe to bring the player to you as well? 23:14 red-001 yeah I should do that 23:14 octacian It'd be neat to be able to manage PMs in a clientmod 23:14 red-001 I just added kick and ban first since they are the simplest 23:14 octacian Kinda like emails 23:14 octacian Yeah lol 23:14 red-001 yeah I will add that at some point 23:15 octacian Meh, I think it deserves it's own mod 23:15 red-001 plus I should add confirmation dialogs to the kick and ban commands 23:15 octacian +1 23:16 octacian hmm, Who isn't working reliable 23:16 red-001 I know 23:16 red-001 I keep forgetting to make a bug report/pr for that 23:16 octacian e.g. It shows 5 players when there's 25 23:17 red-001 octacian, and they don't show up in .list_players right? 23:17 octacian Yup, still just the 5 players 23:18 red-001 that's because of the incorrect method minetest uses for the nick auto-completion/csm player list 23:18 red-001 it's also why I closed by join/leave player callback pr 23:18 octacian So, what is wrong with the method? 23:18 red-001 the tl;dr of it is you can only see players whos nametags you can see 23:19 octacian huh, interesting 23:19 red-001 it scraps the player object data to get names 23:19 red-001 instead of the server sending names to the client 23:20 octacian How hard would it be to fix? 23:20 red-001 not too hard 23:20 red-001 just a new packet 23:21 octacian Maybe I'll give it a try sometime if no one else does. I'm trying to learn C++ myself 23:21 paramat i don't like the idea of client-supplied clientmods either, seems it would just cause more trouble, even though servers can disable them 23:22 srifqi So, CSM is disable-able? 23:22 red-001 eh no? 23:22 red-001 I do not recall such a feature being added 23:23 paramat hm 23:23 paramat i thought that a server could prevent a client-provided mod from causing trouble 23:23 octacian paramat: I don't see that it could create very much trouble. I don't think the server should have control over whether clientmods are used or not either 23:24 paramat (.. seems the least we should do) 23:24 octacian This is one area where I personally think MT has become way too tight. Yes, security is important, but usability is even more (to some extent). 23:24 paramat well there already cheat mods 23:24 octacian For example, a CSM to display the players in a nice formspec. 23:25 octacian It would be incredibly unlikely that the server owner would set it up so that the clientmod were available 23:25 octacian It's something that instead should be installed at the discretion of the user 23:25 paramat if you give client players a chance to cause trouble they will do it, client-provided clientmods encourages that 23:25 octacian paramat: True. I'm on a server right now where someone's using oredetect. However, all of this was already possible by modifying the client 23:26 octacian Yes, it does. But it increases the usability particularly for people with slow internet. 23:26 paramat no MT is not tight enough when it comes to preventing troublemakers, server owners are already sick of troublesome clients 23:27 octacian I guess that is true. However, I see no reason to disallow clients from loading CSMs 23:27 paramat server should provide everything, players can always ask for certain clientmods 23:28 paramat yes already possible, but now much easier and encouraged 23:28 octacian At this point the only exploits that CSMs make easier is detecting nodes around you and stealing from chests if the server-side mod doesn't check that the player is owner when taking items 23:28 red-001 but a lot less useful 23:28 octacian No one is encouraging it 23:28 octacian If only the server could send mods, we'd practically be right back where we started. Sure, it'd allow for faster things client-side, but it'd be of no use to most players. 23:28 red-001 oredetect is a lot worse then what some basic c++ exploit get you 23:29 red-001 the chest thing is sadly hard to fix 23:29 paramat "But it increases the usability particularly for people with slow internet" not allowing client provided clientmods is not the same as not allowing CSM 23:30 paramat well i've explained good reasons 23:30 Fixer more news 23:30 paramat detecting nodes is bad enough, that's trouble and cheating 23:30 octacian Personally, I think the good outweighs the bad 23:31 Fixer i tested debian-mingw64 vs msys2-mingw64 for stuttering 23:31 Fixer unexpected news 23:31 Fixer they both have similar stutter, that means it was improved recently? o_O 23:31 Fixer when? 23:31 paramat "but it'd be of no use to most players." server-sent clientmods is extremely useful already 23:32 Fixer the only difference is leveldb support 23:32 Fixer from my previous builds 23:32 Fixer but that should not affect stuttering 23:33 paramat players can always ask for certain clientmods, and we can't take anymore badness, ask a server admin 23:33 octacian Well, I think at this point we've gone over all the pros and cons. I'd personally be very unhappy to see the clients loading CSMs go away. Personally I wouldn't like a feature to allow servers to disable CSMs. 23:33 octacian If I were a server admin, I for one would prefer it if players could install CSMs themselves rather than me installing them for the players. 23:34 paramat Fixer c55s work improved stutter a few months ago 23:34 Fixer paramat: no it is not mostly, it was still very shitty... but wth changed now... 23:35 Fixer i will compile with leveldb support and verify again 23:36 Fixer F5 graph results felt different 23:36 octacian paramat: What if find_nodes_near used by oredetect had a limited radius? 23:36 rubenwardy CSM is actually making Minetest more secure in the long run 23:37 octacian ^ +1 23:37 rubenwardy it's making it easier to exploit mistakes which should have been fixed before 23:37 rubenwardy like the chest stuff 23:37 rubenwardy and any formspec field receives 23:37 octacian Yeah 23:38 Fixer paramat: singleplayer felt very different on clean config, it was not "fuck this stuttering again", but "woah" 23:38 octacian Wouldn't just limiting the radius of find_nodes_near deal with oredetect though? Maybe if it were limited to 5-10 nodes 23:38 red-001 well formspec wasn't really caused by CSM 23:38 Fixer and fraps result analysis supported me 23:39 Fixer both builds had stat dev of about 3.5, before it was 5.4 or so 23:40 Fixer msys2 had slightly better fps 23:40 paramat limiting a feature radius of one clientmod does not address my concerns, and no a limited radius does not make it ok obviously 23:41 octacian How would it not address your concerns about mods like oredetect? 23:41 Fixer actually 23:42 Fixer not long ago it was almost 6.1 (stand dev) 23:42 Fixer sleep 15ms gives stand dev 1.65 23:42 paramat ok, well all i'm asking for is the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods, that seems a minimum necessity. with that we still are able to improve through exposing vunerabilities 23:42 Fixer 3.5 vs 6.X is huge visual improvement 23:43 octacian Wouldn't limiting the radius fix the one vulnerability though? 23:43 paramat cheating by detecting nodes 5 nodes away instead of 20 makes no difference to the cheating 23:44 octacian Not really. 23:44 paramat it's still trouble caused by cheating 23:44 rubenwardy paramat, impossible 23:44 octacian Where oredetect is useful is detecting stuff 50-100 nodes away. 23:44 Hijiri reducing the radius proportionally reduces the usefulness of the search for other uses 23:44 Hijiri e.g. what ambience mod might do 23:44 Fixer Why do you need oredetect if ores are superabundand and there are no nyan cats anymore ._. 23:45 Fixer abundan 23:45 Fixer d 23:45 Fixer t 23:45 octacian Hijiri: Ambience mod wouldn't need to look more than 5-10 nodes away at max. 23:45 rubenwardy how about distance < 10 or minetest.line_of_sight(player:get_pos(), pos) 23:45 octacian It'd be better to just provide an API to get what biome the player was in 23:45 paramat "the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods" is impossible? 23:45 octacian rubenwardy: +1 23:45 octacian paramat: The client could probably just avoid it with one line like we can already avoid flight privilege checks 23:46 Hijiri the client could override the radius check with one line 23:46 octacian Hijiri: But much less likely 23:46 octacian Anyone that interested would find a way to cheat CSMs or not 23:46 paramat good grief this is not about a feature distance of 1 mod, arguing about that is meaningless 23:46 Hijiri I don't see why it's less likely 23:46 Hijiri why would a cheater remove a non-modding setting but not remove the radius check? 23:47 octacian Anyone that interested in cheating would probably find a way to cheat anyways, that's what I'm saying :P 23:47 Hijiri octacian: isn't that the same case with having a server tell the client not to use its own client mods? 23:47 paramat yes but this is making it super easy 23:47 paramat people are now distributing cheat mods and servers can do nothing 23:48 octacian My personal opinion is that rather than removing the issue by not allowing clients to load CSMs we should fix the issue though, and I personally really like rubenwardy's suggestion 23:48 paramat "the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods" is impossible? 23:48 Hijiri it doesn't fix the issue any more than disallowing CSM is 23:48 octacian It seems to "fix" the issue in the best way possible. 23:49 Hijiri why is it better than disabling CSM? 23:50 Hijiri Or maybe at least, disabling the parts of CSM that include getting map data 23:50 octacian In my opinion, if CSM is only server-side, it becomes meaningless to the client 23:50 Hijiri Why is that? 23:50 Hijiri It will still be useful, for example if the server itself wants to provide an ore-finding mod 23:51 Hijiri And for things like mod-specified user interfaces 23:51 octacian It becomes meaningful only in that some gameplay aspects could be faster, but it is really only meaningful to reduce load on the server 23:51 rubenwardy CSM should be for client-side prediction and audiovisuals 23:51 paramat please can someone answer my question? 23:51 Hijiri octacian: It reduces latency too, not just computational load 23:51 Hijiri And it allows code to run on the client 23:52 octacian Otherwise, if CSMs are allowed, they are meaningful to the player as well since the player can then customize their particular instance. 23:52 Hijiri Lower latency is a qualitative difference when it comes to UI 23:52 octacian I agree. 23:52 rubenwardy the only way it would reduce load is by doing animations by itself (think arrows, etc) without requiring a shit-ton of packets 23:52 Hijiri octacian: No reason server-provided CSM can't allow customization 23:52 octacian paramat: We did. It is technically possible, but easily avoidable. 23:52 Hijiri So is limiting search radius 23:52 Fixer one more test 23:52 octacian Hijiri: What if the player wants to have a custom health HUD, for example. 23:53 Hijiri octacian: You could just allow the parts of the API that don't affect gameplay very much 23:53 Hijiri I would say that a 10 node radius is still too much, you can hug a wall and find a lot more ores than wandering through a cave 23:53 octacian ugh, If someone is going to go to the trouble of making it so that their client side mods can have a larger search radius, they'd probably figure out how to cheat even if the CSMs were disabled by the server 23:54 Hijiri octacian: The difference is that with CSM you have an environment where the cheats all interact nicely with each other, and you don't need to recompile for each new cheat 23:54 octacian Or, they could just not update their client to the version that implemented the checks for whether CSM was enabled and what API functions were available. 23:54 Hijiri you just need to remove the restrictions once and make as many cheat mods as you want 23:54 paramat "The client could probably just avoid it with one line" is no answer. is the ability there now or is it impossible? 23:55 Hijiri octacian: You could make a server disallowing client-provided client mods require clients to send a packet saying that it has disabled them 23:55 octacian It's possible to implement, but not possible to enforce. 23:55 octacian And the client could just send that packet anyways but not disable them 23:55 Hijiri octacian: yes, but you would need to recompile the client, same as with removing the radius restriction 23:55 Hijiri octacian: And you couldn't get around it by using an old version 23:57 octacian This is pointless. My point, is that trying to prevent CSMs is also sorta pointless. It's better to allow CSMs and instead simply take preventions for those items that can be. 23:57 octacian I mean, it could even be made so that radius checks would be sent to the server, and the server would then return the information 23:58 Hijiri octacian: I'm fine with that, as long as prevention means just disabling all parts of the API that could be easily used for cheating 23:58 Hijiri octacian: As long as search radius is useful it will be useful for detecting ores as well 23:58 octacian Also kinda pointless. The best method of prevention is that rather than trying to disable stuff, instead fix the stuff so that there's no need to disable it. 23:58 paramat someone could get around it with a hacked client yes, but that is no argument against making it more difficult to cause trouble 23:58 Hijiri octacian: Why is it pointless? 23:59 Hijiri You have said that it is but not why it is, and why "fixing" it would not be pointless 23:59 octacian I'm all for making it more difficult to cause trouble, But just entirely disallowing CSMs or part of the API doesn't seem like the proper solution to me 23:59 octacian Instead, it seems kinda hacky. It's just a workaround to a problem, rather than a fix to a problem. 23:59 Hijiri Isn't "searching over X radius" part of the API being disabled? 23:59 paramat it can't be fixed, discussing 1 mod's radius is completely missing the point 23:59 Hijiri It's just different levels of disabling 23:59 Hijiri octacian: And why isn't limiting the search radius a hack? 23:59 Hijiri Why is it not a workaround or a fix?