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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-06-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:26 LazyJ joined #minetest-hub
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00:33 Vtower when you meet someone and they say they dont watch the simpsons, south park, family, robot chicken, rwen and stimpy, or even futurama
00:33 Vtower family guy*
00:36 bigfoot547 Sooo....
00:37 Vtower its so sad
00:50 VaultyTowers joined #minetest-hub
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06:37 TommyTreasure possible off topic.  can anyone assist me with the syntax for the irc command to require voice on an irc channel.  my attacker can no longer get into the game, and has found our game's irc channel to be his attack method
06:41 CWz joined #minetest-hub
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09:00 lisac joined #minetest-hub
09:46 Shara Morning all
09:47 red-001 morning
09:47 Shara Hi red-001 :)
09:49 DS-minetest morning
09:55 Krock hi Shara
09:56 Shara Hi Krock, hi DS-minetest
09:56 Shara Another round of attacks on DL to clean up on :(
10:08 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:13 CWz Shara, wasn't DL locked off to new players?
10:13 Shara They got on the IRC channel
10:13 Shara That's now locked down too
10:14 CWz Ya need the CyborPolice
10:14 Shara It's always when I'm away
10:20 CWz I am confused to why they are still attacking
10:20 Fuchs TommyTreasure: hi
10:20 Fuchs TommyTreasure: is that channel on freenode?
10:21 TommyTreasure Fuchs, pm please?
10:21 Fuchs sure
10:22 Shara Fuchs: It's on freenode.
10:22 lisac Shara, maybe you should require email in order to get interact. That way, they'd have to go to a lot more trouble to cause any problems.
10:22 Shara Could I pleased be involved in any talks regarding this channel though, since it is me running it
10:23 Shara lisac: That's something I thought about in the past, and it would be horrible. Many of the players don't have email addresses (some children are not allowed)
10:23 Shara please*
10:23 CWz Hmm about read rules for interact
10:23 Shara CWz: Interact isn't the problem though.
10:24 Shara It's the spam
10:24 Shara This is really nasty racist stuff, among other things, getting spammed into chat
10:24 Shara It's not even things a filter could easily catch.
10:24 Fuchs Shara: augh
10:24 Fuchs Shara / TommyTreasure: /join ##foobar-mt-discuss-blabla
10:26 CWz Fuchs, might want to put password so one would be snooping as usual
10:26 Fuchs CWz: I'm pretty sure I can remove people if needed
10:26 Fuchs it's only very temporary anyway
10:29 TommyTreasure Shara, i only asked for pm to keep it out of the room.  i wasn't aware of topic prior to chat.  my apologies
10:30 shivajiva why is clearing single armor items using inventory manipulation so difficult?
10:31 Shara No problem TommyTreasure. It's just that I like to be in the loop about channels I'm meant to be running :)
10:33 shivajiva I take the items, refresh the formspec and the item is sat there in the slot but the player isn't wearing it, moving it to another slot makes it wearable, did I miss something?
10:34 TommyTreasure Shara, i've just decided to keep as low profile appearance as possible
10:35 Shara It won't make any difference
10:35 TommyTreasure yes it will!  it'll keep me from getting myself in trouble!  lol
10:37 TommyTreasure less activity = less targeting = life easier for everyone else
10:40 CWz Shara does your server have basic_mechines?
10:40 Shara CWz: Nope
10:40 CWz good
10:41 red-001 why?
10:41 Shara TommyTreasure: These kinds of people will do what they do, regardless of whether you are there. It's only an easier life for you :)
10:43 red-001 well its a very specific "backdoor"
10:44 red-001 looks like he hardcoded his nick in some sort of test command
10:44 red-001 CWz, someone already posted this on the forum
10:44 red-001 anyway the ofending line https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic​_machines/blob/9a66471390cdc4f2f9ee8​bafdaf7c3dfe56916cd/mover.lua#L1302
10:47 Krock Offtopic: I'm glad this doesn't apply to Minetest http://imgur.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/ZyNvqMg
10:48 shivajiva clearly missing the server admin tier at the bottom lol
10:49 red-001 https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerH​umor/comments/6f4of7/no_need_to_over​complicate_things_with_the_volume/
10:51 Stone-Talus joined #minetest-hub
10:51 Krock shivajiva, lol yeah
11:01 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
11:03 Krock red-001, our cheat prevention: http://imgur.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/bYiIN56
11:05 red-001 lol
11:05 Fixer VanessaE: do you have that multiplying entities bug on your servers?
11:07 Fixer wtf about those volume sliders?
11:08 red-001 Fixer, reddit being reddit
11:09 * Fixer googles
11:11 Fixer red-001: you should post on rnd machines topic about this
11:12 Jordach https://i.redd.it/6iwmt9ojzf1z.jpg
11:16 red-001 Fixer, someone already did
11:18 Fixer red-001: i'm not sure rnd did it for malicious intentions, he developed that mod running on actual servers, so he probably did it for convinience, will ask maikerumine about that
11:19 Fixer red-001: but ofc it needs to be disabled
11:19 Fixer removed*
11:30 red-001 hey if he wanted to me evil he would have used that anti-cheat mod for it
11:33 CWz joined #minetest-hub
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11:59 Fixer red-001: contacted him, he will rework it
12:02 Shara joined #minetest-hub
12:32 Wayward_One hi all :)
13:12 Jordach Lua: What if game developers got tired of C++?
13:13 Jordach fuck
13:14 Krock huh
13:14 Jordach TypeScript: JavaScript with a condom
13:15 Jordach Hiring PHP developers does not contribute to the quota of employees with disabilities.
13:17 Jordach wtf
13:17 Jordach PowerPoint is TURING COMPLETE
13:17 Jordach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjxe8ShM-8
13:21 Jordach Calinou, rubenwardy, benrob0329-latop, Shara
13:21 Jordach go see that video
13:26 Krock 1600 animations :o
13:29 Shara Jordach: somehow, I'm not sure how, but somehow, this manages to feel relevant to the exam I'm trying to prepare for :D
13:44 Fixer https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/DBd9C-dXkAA2Eg_.jpg:large
13:44 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
13:46 Krock Fixer, and once again the JPEG compression made it look much worse
14:02 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
14:14 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
14:20 VanessaE Fixer: multiplying entities, yes.  mostly on my creative server, though I haven't checked recently if they're still being created.
14:22 VanessaE (on Dreambuilder/30000 that is)
14:23 paramat joined #minetest-hub
14:26 CWz_ Its the paramat
14:26 paramat hi. rdococ please could you ask a channel op for voice? we like to have everyone voiced here
14:33 Shara Seems he's just not identified
14:34 CWz_ if not identified that could only mean... That rdococ is a spy!
14:35 Shara I'm too lazy to voice people who are on the list but are  too lazy to identify :)
14:43 CWz Shara have the ongoing attacks ceased yet
14:44 Shara RC had a ddos earlier today as well.
14:44 Shara I lost bouncer connection for about ten minutes due to it
14:44 Shara No idea if related to the DL attacks or not.
14:44 CWz Well, f***... well back in my day, nobody ddosed servers
14:45 Shara Even had email from my provider due to it
14:45 red-001 :(
14:46 red-001 I assume it's the same people that have been hacking the server?
14:46 Shara No way to tell really.
14:46 octacian joined #minetest-hub
14:46 red-001 yeah I suppsoe
14:46 Shara RC isn't even hosted on the same server as DL, so may or may not be related
14:46 red-001 suppose*
14:46 Shara And DL attacks haven't included ddos, as far as I know
14:51 CWz DarKLands seem to attact a lot of evilings
14:51 Shara It's only really been... since certain events.
14:55 rubenwardy what form was the DDoS?
14:57 CWz There are multiple froms?
14:57 rubenwardy classic connection hogging, large payloads, ping of death
14:58 Shara Not sure in all honesty.
14:58 rubenwardy do you know whether it was against Minetest or a HTTP server?
14:58 rubenwardy just interested
14:58 Fixer now kids can ddos
14:58 Shara No, and very limited time to try and figure it out right now.
14:59 rubenwardy ah, ok :P
15:01 Shara There's very little there to target other than the MT server though
15:03 Jordach >trying to beat XFCE4 into place
15:03 Jordach >installs KDE
15:03 Jordach m a d m a n
15:03 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/dW02END.png
15:04 Krock no, it's not the END.
15:04 Krock we will continue
15:04 Fixer Krock: wat?
15:05 Krock see the URL
15:05 Fixer Krock: what url?
15:05 Fixer ._____.
15:05 Krock interpreting your face makes me feel that you've seen it
15:06 Fixer Krock: we will continue what?
15:06 * Fixer adds two more mods into mod folder
15:06 Krock programming, testing, fixing and playing Minetest :^)
15:07 Fixer Krock: agree
15:07 Fixer Wuzzy seems to increase bug report production recently
15:08 red-001 hi
15:08 Calinou hi
15:08 red-001 my password is aHVudGVyMg==
15:08 Fixer from what?
15:09 Fixer maaaaaaaaaake a moooooooooooooove
15:09 Fixer it is all in your head
15:09 Fixer https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6​f6s20/minetest_0416_released_open_source/
15:09 Fixer ^^
15:09 Fixer failure
15:11 Fixer it is funny to read "minetest is for poor people who can't afford minecraft" what the fuck they talk about, even 3 yr old can DL pirated launcher of MC...
15:12 red-001 whats pirating?
15:12 Calinou it's when you surf the high seas of the Web! :D
15:12 red-001 oh so it's like a sailor
15:13 Fixer *emoji with hands*
15:13 Krock yarr harr
15:13 red-001 well I suppose it's a bit more intenset then just surfing?
15:14 Krock surfing with just one eye
15:14 red-001 huh we call it the web be we sure love using sea metaphors
15:14 red-001 Krock, sounds intense
15:14 red-001 you have like no 3d vision then
15:15 Krock does that matter? your surfing simulator display is 2D anyway
15:15 Fixer 1.5d vision
15:16 Fixer if only we had colored clay for 0.5 MTG
15:19 dtscode joined #minetest-hub
15:19 Fixer https://www.reddit.com/r/thisismylifenow/comments/​6f6tja/this_guy_benchpressing_a_goose_at_la_park/
15:19 Fixer now this is unexpected
15:19 red-001 hi dtscode
15:19 red-001 someone should give them voice
15:20 Krock or (s)he should request voice
15:20 red-001 well I suppose so
15:22 red-001 dtscode, if you want to talk in this channel send a PM to one of the OP's asking for voice
15:23 paramat and please 'identify' your nick with Nickserv
15:23 red-001 paramat, they have
15:23 red-001 notice the cloak
15:24 benrob0329-latop Jordach: oh gosh why
15:24 Shara I will voice, if someone can either tell me who it is, or they PM me
15:28 red-001 huh I saw the nick "nchambers" before
15:29 Shara Yea, same, but can't place it
15:29 Calinou they're in other channels I'm in
15:29 Calinou probably a legit person :P
15:29 Shara Hmm, let's see what happens then
15:30 red-001 well they are staff at learnprogramming
15:30 Calinou also, I'm in the process of making 0.4.16/Git AppImages
15:30 red-001 and that is a reasoably large channel
15:30 Fixer https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/201​7-05-30/road-to-xfce-4.14-part-2.html
15:33 Krock Calinou, you'd have to revert some commits to build the "stable" one, if it's what you want
15:34 Krock s/revert/reset/
15:34 Calinou Krock: I know
15:34 Calinou I'm building master and stable 0.4.16 in parallel anyway
15:34 Calinou my script can build an arbitrary number of branches
15:34 Krock okay
15:40 Fuchs dtscode is fine
15:40 Fuchs I have no idea why he is in here
15:40 Fuchs but he has been on this network long enough and I know him
15:41 Fixer https://i.redd.it/c9bvt4fn0v0z.jpg
15:42 Calinou is his password "aligator5"?
15:49 Fixer lets see how master compiles for me
15:53 DS-minetest Krock: is that you?
15:56 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub
15:58 * red-001 starts to hate lua
15:58 red-001 of course it converts strings into number
15:58 red-001 but not when you are expecting it to
16:02 Fixer does not compile to me, unfortunately, that means I will need to wait two weeks for Debian 9 and upgrade my build VM
16:04 Krock DS-minetest, maybe.
16:04 * Krock is amused that his Win XP machine beats Linux for once
16:04 Krock even if it's only a few distributions
16:04 Calinou my parents might finally get new machines
16:05 Calinou they do office work mostly, but their current ones are very slow
16:05 Calinou and one of them also manages to be very noisy
16:05 Calinou both all-in-ones
16:06 Fixer Calinou: heared Pentium 4 3.6GHz machine in office, holy fuck it was noisy and hot, temp was approaching 67*C in idle, my Northwood 2.8GHz was like 30*C at idle, Presscot crap?
16:07 Calinou a new PC should be built for one of them, with a Pentium G4560 or something
16:07 Calinou it's a 2-core, 4-thread CPU at 3.5 GHz
16:07 Calinou pretty nice, and fairly cheap
16:07 Calinou should be quite power-saving too
16:07 Calinou (it's Kaby Lake)
16:07 Fixer Calinou: do multiseat :trollface:
16:07 Calinou heh
16:09 Krock Calinou, I've seen a video about a quite cheap setup recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epIlB49SNTI
16:12 rubenwardy thanks for adding authors to the changelog, red-001
16:16 rubenwardy Please may a french speaker ask what graphics card (integrated or otherwise) they use? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=20&t=17794&view=unread#unread
16:16 rubenwardy and also the opengl version
16:16 Calinou I saw that topic, people are talking about it in #minetest-fr
16:17 rubenwardy kk
16:17 Calinou I'll reply on IRC
16:17 Calinou also, hi rubenwardy :)
16:17 rubenwardy make sure you post a link though, for future readers :)
16:17 rubenwardy Hi
16:17 Calinou I learned about a fancy trick to build AppImages without path errors
16:17 Calinou well, path warnings actually
16:17 Calinou the infamous "WARNING: could not find..." that popped whenever someone ran an AppImage of mine
16:24 * Jordach runs pacman -Syyu
16:24 Jordach ain't nobody got time fo octopi
16:32 Fixer Krock: if you want some advanced ### with compiling, try MSYS2/mingw64 on windows
16:32 Fixer every time I try it, I fail
16:33 Fixer everything works, except at compilation or linking, i don't remember, fucker won't find needed libraries for strange reasons
16:33 Krock Fixer, well thanks for the offer but MSVC was already pita enough
16:33 Krock maybe you linked the libs wrongly or it has troubles with unicode paths
16:36 Fixer no unicode
16:36 Fixer no spaces
16:36 Fixer it was weird
16:36 Fixer i rage quitted
16:37 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:37 Krock o/ nerzhul
16:40 nerzhul Krock, ?
16:40 nerzhul hi Krock
16:40 nerzhul why o/ ?
16:40 Fixer tried to read this http://www.mingw.org/wiki/includepathhowto, but still wth it is not working as easy as in linux mingw -_-
16:40 Krock why not? 50% chance to be greeted this way
16:41 nerzhul oh, it's better chance than loto :D
16:41 Krock huh? "loto"?
16:41 Krock oh
16:41 Krock lotto
16:41 nerzhul lotto in english sorry :)
16:42 Krock Fixer, here I defined all paths as absolute ones, using cmake-gui
16:43 Krock starting with a minimal build first (no freetype or sound)
16:44 Fixer https://pastebin.com/raw/5vDjHfFQ
16:44 Krock and then successive testing until done
16:44 Fixer it has search list for headers
16:45 Fixer i've tried to place irrlicht headers literally into everything
16:45 Fixer in any layouts possible
16:45 Fixer up to dumping everything as big pile
16:51 Fixer Calinou: remind me again on how to update everything via pacman, please
16:51 Jordach pacman -Syy
16:51 Calinou pacman -Syu
16:51 Calinou (with sudo)
16:51 Jordach pacman -Ssyu
16:51 Jordach or the above
16:53 Krock pacman -Svacousswitches
16:53 Krock *vacuous
16:55 Fixer thanks
16:55 Fixer updating
16:55 Fixer will try to approach that mess again
16:55 Calinou pacman -Abcdefghij...
16:55 Calinou :D
16:55 Fixer make compiling great agin
16:55 Fixer again
16:55 Fixer or faster at least
16:56 Fixer under VM it is abysmally slow
16:56 Fixer 15 minutes
16:56 Fixer :(
16:56 Fixer the problem in itself is this case:
16:56 Fixer #include <irrlicht.h>
16:56 Fixer #include <iostream>
16:56 Fixer #include "CGUITTFont.h"
16:56 nerzhul Krock, you moved to archlinux ?
16:56 Fixer don't remember what, but it either can't find guys in < > or in " "
16:57 Krock nerzhul, huh? no, just playing a bit with this command argument
16:58 nerzhul okay
17:11 red-001 sudo pacman -Syu --no-preserve-root
17:18 Calinou keeping a backup of my VMs has proven to be really helpful for OS migrations
17:18 Calinou so I keep my settings around, for once :P
17:19 Calinou also, woo, I reached 5,800 link karma on Reddit :D
17:19 Calinou and the reply to the first comment on the /r/linux post has -79 points :D
17:20 red-001 wow that early comment got downvoted all the way down
17:20 Krock Calinou, and what benefits do you have of this high karma?
17:21 red-001 ahh and I was ninja'd again
17:21 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
17:21 Calinou Krock: it looks good on my resume
17:21 red-001 hi IhrFussel
17:21 Calinou ;)
17:21 Krock some forumers think the same of their post count
17:21 Krock hi IhrFussel
17:22 red-001 Krock, wait are you telling me that forum post counts are meaningless?
17:22 red-001 that can't be
17:22 Krock red-001, they're overrated sometimes as it depends on the content quality
17:23 IhrFussel I find it funny that starting a thread doesn't count as "post"
17:23 Calinou perfect, my Minetest AppImages (both master and stable) work on Debian 8 and Fedora 25 :)
17:23 Krock neither does it if you post in the news section
17:24 IhrFussel Oh and hi back to you red-001 and Krock ^^
17:24 Krock o/
17:25 red-001 \o
17:28 IhrFussel Can someone tell me what the sneak options are? I have no clue which behavior to choose
17:29 IhrFussel If I understood it correctly there is an old behavior and a new one...and many dislike the new one...correct?
17:29 red-001 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=18&amp;t=17397
17:30 paramat ^ that
17:30 red-001 new behavior, new behavior that imitates the old one and old behavior
17:53 CWz ShadowBot, tell tenplus1 so there is milk bucket in mobs_redo... why isn't there a milk_source and milk_flowing? this is been bugging me, man!
17:53 ShadowBot CWz: O.K.
17:54 paramat heh milk source is cow?
17:57 Calinou is milk open source?
17:59 Raven262 Oddly enough, I'm working on a game that actually has milk source and flowing milk, also has cookies.
18:00 IhrFussel So the "old move code" will be deprecated when 0.5.0 releases, but the newer one that imitates the old one will continue to exist?
18:01 IhrFussel Or will all options be replaced by a completely new one?
18:10 Krock IhrFussel, depending on the player's opinion of the new sneak code's bugs/features there's still the PR 5533 pending to provide yet another algorithm
18:10 Krock but the behaviour overall will stay about the same
18:11 Krock i.e. sneak_glitch switch for sneak ladders and no falling down when releasing sneak
18:11 Krock s/sneak/sne*k/g
18:15 IhrFussel Krock, I honestly never used any sneak glitches/hacks/tricks ... is the old code the one that allows to jump higher when sneaking?
18:15 Krock both codes do
18:16 Krock if you mean double node jumps: afaik not possible anymore in the new sneak code due a different node position calculation
18:16 IhrFussel Cause right now I use 0.4.16-dev with default code and there is no higher jump so it seems to be disabled
18:17 IhrFussel Ok so the old code is required for 2 node high jumps
18:18 Krock yes
18:18 Krock (or a modified jump velocity setting)
18:24 Calinou ok, got automatic SHA-256 file generation to work
18:36 paramat "the newer one that imitates the old one will continue to exist?" yes
18:36 paramat the 'sneak glitch' physics override enables a new replication of sneak ladders and 2 node sneak jump
18:36 garywhite so no more 2-node jumps?
18:37 paramat "double node jumps: afaik not possible anymore in the new sneak code due a different node position calculation" 2 node sneak jump is replicated and works
18:38 paramat for 2 node sneak jump you can use new move code plus 'sneak glitch'
18:39 paramat "so the old code is required for 2 node high jumps" no, also supported by new move code as an option
18:40 paramat Krock should know all this :]
18:41 paramat IhrFussel ^
18:41 IhrFussel paramat, wait so if I use the 4 code lines from the forum for "old code" do I still need to enable anything else if I want the entire old behavior?
18:41 paramat you don't, enabling 'old move code' gets you exactly old behaviour with sneak jump and sneak ladders enabled
18:42 paramat and yes at 0.5 the 'old move code' option will be removed
18:42 paramat then you will have new sneak code with an option for 2 node sneak jump and sneak ladders
18:43 paramat the new move code has been improving and may improve further with Krock's work
18:44 paramat the only issues left are minor, apart from one issue which is important to someone here :]
18:44 paramat new sneak code is fairly good now, but cannot be exactly the same as before
18:45 paramat 0.5 gives us an excuse to remove the old code completely and break some parkour worlds
18:49 IhrFussel And maybe to make all physics server-side /s :P
18:50 IhrFussel I mean the calculations
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19:14 paramat joined #minetest-hub
19:16 garywhite what is the rarest block in MT now?
19:19 paramat cloud or dirt with footsteps?
19:20 garywhite oh, I though it was mese or diamond blocks
19:22 IhrFussel You didn't say "minetest_game" so rainbow ore on my server
19:27 paramat well, of nodes actually generated in vanilla, mese block probably
19:27 paramat cloud and dirt with footsteps are in MTG but only to support old worlds
19:27 behaleba- joined #minetest-hub
19:43 garywhite You guys finally added a percentage to the media load
19:49 Jordach EXCELLENTE TYPO
19:49 Jordach Player data can now be into database
19:52 Krock google "php/c"
19:53 Krock ^ offtopic, sorry
19:56 garywhite I used to get a command prompt window that would print all the stuff to debug, now there is no such thing
19:57 garywhite what happened?
19:58 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
19:59 Krock garywhite, in the Windows build? start it with --console or from cmd directly
19:59 garywhite Well, that sucks...I used to be able to quit much quicker by just Alt+F4ing the console window
20:00 Krock just change your minetest links to start it with the additional param
20:01 Krock there's also the "enable_console" setting but I'm not getting it to work
20:02 garywhite idk where it is, I'll worry about it tomorrow. I gotta go in a little while so I'll just take care of it later
20:04 Fixer remind me please, command to look up the location of file in NIX
20:04 Fixer that shows path to file
20:06 Fixer Error running link command: ╨Э╨╡
20:06 Fixer what the fuck
20:06 Fixer forgot dots
20:08 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
20:13 dtscode joined #minetest-hub
20:22 Fixer $ make[1]: *** [Makefile:276: cmake_check_build_system] Interrupt
20:22 Fixer .________________.
20:25 Calinou >when even CMake doesn't believe in your compiler
20:29 Krock let's compile it with Borland
20:33 garywhite what about BASIC?
20:35 Krock basic is not a compiler
20:36 Fixer Calinou: it also exits in weird way into CMD itself, and not into bash
20:37 Fixer passes cmake and then stops on cmake_check_build_system with any errors
20:38 nerzhul nice to see many projects are switching to C++11; https://sourceware.org/ml/gdb​-announce/2017/msg00003.html
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20:48 dtscode joined #minetest-hub
20:54 IhrFussel WTH is my hoster doing?! dmesg is full of [2499598.408615] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Down [2499615.567461] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex, Flow Control: None
20:55 bwarden joined #minetest-hub
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21:13 nerzhul http://en.cppreference.com/​w/cpp/numeric/math/signbit
21:13 nerzhul lol
21:15 Krock wow great. a function that implements  (number & MSB) != 0
21:16 nerzhul Krock, some STL functions are just... STL for STL :p but they are there and prvent coding errors heh
21:17 nerzhul https://twitter.com/mrkkrj​/status/854241747936915456 this is an excellent usage of unique_ptr to properly finish C resources
21:22 dtscode thanks shara <3
21:23 nerzhul ty ShadowBot
21:24 IhrFussel OMG it just happened again...my dedicated machine is losing the connection to the network! That's unacceptable
21:24 dtscode what provider?
21:24 IhrFussel Strato (German)
21:24 Fixer make -f CMakeFiles\Makefile2 all
21:24 Fixer Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
21:25 * Fixer thinks
21:25 dtscode IhrFussel: fwiw, ramnode has never gone down for me
21:28 IhrFussel Look at this! https://pastebin.com/PrZvXufF ... there is nothing I can do here, I can't even operate the machine due to connection loss
21:30 Fixer $(MAKE) -f lib\gmp\CMakeFiles\gmp.dir\build.make lib/gmp/CMakeFiles/gmp.dir/depend
21:30 Fixer \ \ \  0 /  /  /
21:30 garywhite Windows 6.1.7601...that's 7, according to my records
21:31 Krock 5 is 2000, 6.1 is 7 and 10 is 10  math mind = blown
21:33 garywhite They never kept it straight
21:33 IhrFussel Krock, what's XP then? and Vista?
21:34 Krock 6.0 is vista, 5.1 xp
21:34 Krock and somewhere there's Neptune
21:37 garywhite 1.0,2.0,3.0,3.1,3,11,3.5,3.51,4.0 (95/NT),4.1 (98), 4.9 (ME), 5.0 (2000), 5.1 (XP), 6.0 (Vista), 6.1 (7), 6.2 (8), 6.3 (8.1), 10 (10)
21:37 Krock funny enough that ME was released after 2000
21:39 Fixer fatal error: endian.h: No such file or directory
21:39 Fixer .__________.
21:45 Fixer SHELL = cmd.exe
21:45 Fixer ._.
21:49 Fixer mingw32-make ._o
21:51 Fixer goes DEEPER
21:52 Fixer *compiles*
21:53 Fixer oh boy
21:56 Fixer mingw stuff is confusing
21:57 Fixer 49%
21:58 Fixer and that fucker will ultimately fail at 100% or making final exe stage, probably
21:58 Fixer will see
21:59 Fixer sooo much faster than in VM
22:00 Fixer hoping final exe is not 32bit .____.
22:03 Fixer error at 100%
22:04 Fixer https://pastebin.com/raw/XKLXRhKV
22:04 Fixer leveldb related
22:04 Fixer lets disable it
22:06 Miner_48er joined #minetest-hub
22:13 Fixer compiles in 6 minutes
22:13 red-001 Fixer, if your system is like my system it will crash on start up
22:14 red-001 I installed the compiler and all
22:14 red-001 disabled leveldb because of that error
22:14 red-001 and I get a crash on startup as thanks
22:14 Fixer :)
22:15 Fixer red-001: linux?
22:15 red-001 yeah arch
22:15 Fixer thats is msys2/mingw64 under win7
22:15 Fixer that is*
22:16 red-001 bloody compiling in MSVC was easier then this, if you managed to get the precompiled libs
22:19 Fixer it gonna fail for sure again
22:19 Fixer IT COMPILED O_O
22:19 * Fixer turns up vaporwave volume
22:21 Fixer :o
22:21 Fixer it runs
22:22 Fixer GREAT SUCCESS
22:22 red-001 wow nice
22:23 red-001 Fixer++
22:23 red-001 !points
22:23 red-001 !help
22:23 ShadowBot red-001: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
22:23 red-001 !list
22:23 ShadowBot red-001: Admin, Aka, Anonymous, BanNotify, Brainfuck, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Ctcp, DDG, Debug, DerplangPlus, Dict, Filter, FloodProtector, Format, Games, GitHub, Karma, Later, Logger, Math, MessageParser, Minetest, Misc, MoobotFactoids, Network, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Reply, Scheduler, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, Unix, User, Util, (1 more message)
22:23 Fixer NO STUTTERING
22:23 Fixer *?*
22:23 red-001 !help Karma
22:23 ShadowBot red-001: (karma [<channel>] [<thing> ...]) -- Returns the karma of <thing>. If <thing> is not given, returns the top N karmas, where N is determined by the config variable supybot.plugins.Karma.rankingDisplay. If one <thing> is given, returns the details of its karma; if more than one <thing> is given, returns the total karma of each of the things. <channel> is only necessary if the message (1 more message)
22:23 red-001 !Karma
22:23 ShadowBot red-001: Highest karma: "Krock" (6), "red" (2), and "it's bad enough in C" (1).  Lowest karma: "red-004" (-1), "is it the new evil lang" (-1), and "read-00" (-1).
22:24 red-001 !Karma Fixer
22:24 ShadowBot red-001: Karma for "Fixer" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
22:32 red-001 wow youtube subtitle autogeneration has improved massivly
22:33 Fixer o.O
22:33 Fixer amazing
22:34 Fixer Hail to all black forces that helped me to compile via msys2/mingw64/gcc6: https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/DBZeThXUIAAEbLK.jpg:large
22:35 Fixer _CLOSE TO NO STUTTERING IN SINGLEPLAYER_
22:35 Fixer it appears, but in much less noticeably way
22:36 Fixer will do my special automated test to confirm
22:40 Fixer :O
22:42 Fixer could be ground breaking
22:43 Fixer time to visit VanessaE
22:43 VanessaE ?
22:43 VanessaE oh.
22:44 VanessaE better have a shovel handy
22:44 paramat FPS seems smoother to me since c55's work
22:44 VanessaE you'll need it to dig up the molten slag that was your computer
22:44 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
22:44 Fixer paramat: it was still very crappy for me, but when I seen msys2/mingw64 build...
22:45 Fixer will do fraps automated tests ofc
22:45 Fixer paramat: singleplayer was amasing, even near jungle
22:46 red-001 yeah I was an idiot
22:47 red-001 I forgot to copy some dlls
22:47 Fixer even on Vanessa Dreamb Surv it is much better than via older method
22:47 Fixer it is much nicer stutter
22:48 Fixer ground breaking
22:48 Fixer time for testing
22:49 Fixer will do same build via old method
22:49 VanessaE what, no molten slag?
22:49 * VanessaE adds more mods
22:49 VanessaE how about now? :P
22:49 Fixer VanessaE: that can be ground breaking
22:49 octacian What is with make rebuilding everything when I just changed some C++ in literally 2 files?
22:50 * red-001 honesly doesn't know
22:50 red-001 cmake seems to interact with make in werid ways
22:50 Fixer octacian: do not rerun cmake
22:50 Fixer octacian: just do make
22:50 octacian I just run the command "make", and it rebuilds everything
22:50 octacian That's all I do
22:50 Fixer should not
22:51 red-001 make auto reruns cmake sometimes
22:51 octacian Wonder if running "make -j$(nproc)" would help? IDK
22:51 red-001 I think it's for that version display thing
22:51 red-001 if it's just that I wish there was a way to disable it
22:52 octacian ugh.. Incredibly annoying though. I just wanna test if one thing works, and I'm like 3m
22:52 * octacian goes to Google
22:52 srifqi red-001, maybe because those files are included in many files?
22:53 red-001 could be
22:54 octacian Probably... Was working on lua_api/l_main_menu.cpp and l_main_menu.h
22:54 octacian But still, it's rebuilding literally everything
22:55 srifqi But, I was just changing a constant value and it only rebuild that file. .-.
22:56 * octacian is confused :rofl:
22:56 octacian On the plus side, finally finished rebuilding everything
22:57 red-001 https://transfer.sh/fYtvJ/​minetest-0.4.16-win64.zip <- anyone want to be the test subject for a non RUN_IN_PLACE minetest windows build?
22:59 * red-001 reboots and becomes their own test subjetc
23:05 octacian And another thing on the bright side, is I just submitted my first, albeit simple, C++ PR :D
23:06 octacian red-001: Is anyone working on enabling/disabling clientmods in main menu?
23:06 red-001 no
23:06 octacian OK, good
23:06 red-001 sofar didn't like the idea
23:06 red-001 but then sofar disappred off to somewhere
23:06 octacian It should be available, either way. The very concept of no ability to manage client-side mods from the main menu is a bad idea IMO
23:07 red-001 well they are suppose to be mostly sent by the server
23:07 octacian Anyways, I've been working on rewriting the modmgr and will add support for installing/uninstalling and enabling/disabling clientmods to the API at the same time
23:07 octacian True, true. However, it could still be very useful to manage from the main menu.
23:07 red-001 this whole custom client supplied mods thing was not really planned
23:08 octacian heh, I see.
23:08 octacian Personally, I think it is quite nice
23:08 octacian Sure, sure. It does allow for more vulnerabilities (possibly), but IMO they're worth it.
23:09 octacian Plus, clientmods like the who and who_plus mods wouldn't likely be provided by the server. They are something that would be very useful to manage entirely client-side.
23:10 octacian So my current idea is to display client-side mods in the mods tab, when selected show that they are clientmods just beneath the title and can be enabled/disabled from there
23:10 red-001 http://i.imgur.com/7QebRcO.png
23:10 Fixer msys2/mingw64 full compile - 7 min @ 4 threads | debian vm mingw64 - 15 min @ 2 threads
23:10 red-001 it works!!
23:11 red-001 and yes I'm running as admin feel free to say my security is shitty
23:11 red-001 octacian, that's a decent idea
23:11 red-001 CSM modding got a bit of a bad rep due to oredetect
23:12 Fixer time for FRAPS
23:12 octacian Yeah...
23:12 octacian I honestly wouldn't worry so much though.
23:12 red-001 also I didn't expect someone to already notice my first CSM mod fork
23:13 octacian Every once in a while I get bored and just stalk the forums for new posts :rofl:
23:13 red-001 lol
23:13 Fixer brb
23:13 octacian Have you also considered adding a button to teleport to the player? Maybe to bring the player to you as well?
23:14 red-001 yeah I should do that
23:14 octacian It'd be neat to be able to manage PMs in a clientmod
23:14 red-001 I just added kick and ban first since they are the simplest
23:14 octacian Kinda like emails
23:14 octacian Yeah lol
23:14 red-001 yeah I will add that at some point
23:15 octacian Meh, I think it deserves it's own mod
23:15 red-001 plus I should add confirmation dialogs to the kick and ban commands
23:15 octacian +1
23:16 octacian hmm, Who isn't working reliable
23:16 red-001 I know
23:16 red-001 I keep forgetting to make a bug report/pr for that
23:16 octacian e.g. It shows 5 players when there's 25
23:17 red-001 octacian, and they don't show up in .list_players right?
23:17 octacian Yup, still just the 5 players
23:18 red-001 that's because of the incorrect method minetest uses for the nick auto-completion/csm player list
23:18 red-001 it's also why I closed by join/leave player callback pr
23:18 octacian So, what is wrong with the method?
23:18 red-001 the tl;dr of it is you can only see players whos nametags you can see
23:19 octacian huh, interesting
23:19 red-001 it scraps the player object data to get names
23:19 red-001 instead of the server sending names to the client
23:20 octacian How hard would it be to fix?
23:20 red-001 not too hard
23:20 red-001 just a new packet
23:21 octacian Maybe I'll give it a try sometime if no one else does. I'm trying to learn C++ myself
23:21 paramat i don't like the idea of client-supplied clientmods either, seems it would just cause more trouble, even though servers can disable them
23:22 srifqi So, CSM is disable-able?
23:22 red-001 eh no?
23:22 red-001 I do not recall such a feature being added
23:23 paramat hm
23:23 paramat i thought that a server could prevent a client-provided mod from causing trouble
23:23 octacian paramat: I don't see that it could create very much trouble. I don't think the server should have control over whether clientmods are used or not either
23:24 paramat (.. seems the least we should do)
23:24 octacian This is one area where I personally think MT has become way too tight. Yes, security is important, but usability is even more (to some extent).
23:24 paramat well there already cheat mods
23:24 octacian For example, a CSM to display the players in a nice formspec.
23:25 octacian It would be incredibly unlikely that the server owner would set it up so that the clientmod were available
23:25 octacian It's something that instead should be installed at the discretion of the user
23:25 paramat if you give client players a chance to cause trouble they will do it, client-provided clientmods encourages that
23:25 octacian paramat: True. I'm on a server right now where someone's using oredetect. However, all of this was already possible by modifying the client
23:26 octacian Yes, it does. But it increases the usability particularly for people with slow internet.
23:26 paramat no MT is not tight enough when it comes to preventing troublemakers, server owners are already sick of troublesome clients
23:27 octacian I guess that is true. However, I see no reason to disallow clients from loading CSMs
23:27 paramat server should provide everything, players can always ask for certain clientmods
23:28 paramat yes already possible, but now much easier and encouraged
23:28 octacian At this point the only exploits that CSMs make easier is detecting nodes around you and stealing from chests if the server-side mod doesn't check that the player is owner when taking items
23:28 red-001 but a lot less useful
23:28 octacian No one is encouraging it
23:28 octacian If only the server could send mods, we'd practically be right back where we started. Sure, it'd allow for faster things client-side, but it'd be of no use to most players.
23:28 red-001 oredetect is a lot worse then what some basic c++ exploit get you
23:29 red-001 the chest thing is sadly hard to fix
23:29 paramat "But it increases the usability particularly for people with slow internet" not allowing client provided clientmods is not the same as not allowing CSM
23:30 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
23:30 paramat well i've explained good reasons
23:30 Fixer more news
23:30 paramat detecting nodes is bad enough, that's trouble and cheating
23:30 octacian Personally, I think the good outweighs the bad
23:31 Fixer i tested debian-mingw64 vs msys2-mingw64 for stuttering
23:31 Fixer unexpected news
23:31 Fixer they both have similar stutter, that means it was improved recently? o_O
23:31 Fixer when?
23:31 paramat "but it'd be of no use to most players." server-sent clientmods is extremely useful already
23:32 Fixer the only difference is leveldb support
23:32 Fixer from my previous builds
23:32 Fixer but that should not affect stuttering
23:33 paramat players can always ask for certain clientmods, and we can't take anymore badness, ask a server admin
23:33 octacian Well, I think at this point we've gone over all the pros and cons. I'd personally be very unhappy to see the clients loading CSMs go away. Personally I wouldn't like a feature to allow servers to disable CSMs.
23:33 octacian If I were a server admin, I for one would prefer it if players could install CSMs themselves rather than me installing them for the players.
23:34 paramat Fixer c55s work improved stutter a few months ago
23:34 Fixer paramat: no it is not mostly, it was still very shitty... but wth changed now...
23:35 Fixer i will compile with leveldb support and verify again
23:36 Fixer F5 graph results felt different
23:36 octacian paramat: What if find_nodes_near used by oredetect had a limited radius?
23:36 rubenwardy CSM is actually making Minetest more secure in the long run
23:37 octacian ^ +1
23:37 rubenwardy it's making it easier to exploit mistakes which should have been fixed before
23:37 rubenwardy like the chest stuff
23:37 rubenwardy and any formspec field receives
23:37 octacian Yeah
23:38 Fixer paramat: singleplayer felt very different on clean config, it was not "fuck this stuttering again", but "woah"
23:38 octacian Wouldn't just limiting the radius of find_nodes_near deal with oredetect though? Maybe if it were limited to 5-10 nodes
23:38 red-001 well formspec wasn't really caused by CSM
23:38 Fixer and fraps result analysis supported me
23:39 Fixer both builds had stat dev of about 3.5, before it was 5.4 or so
23:40 Fixer msys2 had slightly better fps
23:40 paramat limiting a feature radius of one clientmod does not address my concerns, and no a limited radius does not make it ok obviously
23:41 octacian How would it not address your concerns about mods like oredetect?
23:41 Fixer actually
23:42 Fixer not long ago it was almost 6.1 (stand dev)
23:42 Fixer sleep 15ms gives stand dev 1.65
23:42 paramat ok, well all i'm asking for is the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods, that seems a minimum necessity. with that we still are able to improve through exposing vunerabilities
23:42 Fixer 3.5 vs 6.X is huge visual improvement
23:43 octacian Wouldn't limiting the radius fix the one vulnerability though?
23:43 paramat cheating by detecting nodes 5 nodes away instead of 20 makes no difference to the cheating
23:44 octacian Not really.
23:44 paramat it's still trouble caused by cheating
23:44 rubenwardy paramat, impossible
23:44 octacian Where oredetect is useful is detecting stuff 50-100 nodes away.
23:44 Hijiri reducing the radius proportionally reduces the usefulness of the search for other uses
23:44 Hijiri e.g. what ambience mod might do
23:44 Fixer Why do you need oredetect if ores are superabundand and there are no nyan cats anymore ._.
23:45 Fixer abundan
23:45 Fixer d
23:45 Fixer t
23:45 octacian Hijiri: Ambience mod wouldn't need to look more than 5-10 nodes away at max.
23:45 rubenwardy how about     distance < 10   or  minetest.line_of_sight(player:get_pos(), pos)
23:45 octacian It'd be better to just provide an API to get what biome the player was in
23:45 paramat "the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods" is impossible?
23:45 octacian rubenwardy: +1
23:45 octacian paramat: The client could probably just avoid it with one line like we can already avoid flight privilege checks
23:46 Hijiri the client could override the radius check with one line
23:46 octacian Hijiri: But much less likely
23:46 octacian Anyone that interested would find a way to cheat CSMs or not
23:46 paramat good grief this is not about a feature distance of 1 mod, arguing about that is meaningless
23:46 Hijiri I don't see why it's less likely
23:46 Hijiri why would a cheater remove a non-modding setting but not remove the radius check?
23:47 octacian Anyone that interested in cheating would probably find a way to cheat anyways, that's what I'm saying :P
23:47 Hijiri octacian: isn't that the same case with having a server tell the client not to use its own client mods?
23:47 paramat yes but this is making it super easy
23:47 paramat people are now distributing cheat mods and servers can do nothing
23:48 octacian My personal opinion is that rather than removing the issue by not allowing clients to load CSMs we should fix the issue though, and I personally really like rubenwardy's suggestion
23:48 paramat "the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods" is impossible?
23:48 Hijiri it doesn't fix the issue any more than disallowing CSM is
23:48 octacian It seems to "fix" the issue in the best way possible.
23:49 Hijiri why is it better than disabling CSM?
23:50 Hijiri Or maybe at least, disabling the parts of CSM that include getting map data
23:50 octacian In my opinion, if CSM is only server-side, it becomes meaningless to the client
23:50 Hijiri Why is that?
23:50 Hijiri It will still be useful, for example if the server itself wants to provide an ore-finding mod
23:51 Hijiri And for things like mod-specified user interfaces
23:51 octacian It becomes meaningful only in that some gameplay aspects could be faster, but it is really only meaningful to reduce load on the server
23:51 rubenwardy CSM should be for client-side prediction and audiovisuals
23:51 paramat please can someone answer my question?
23:51 Hijiri octacian: It reduces latency too, not just computational load
23:51 Hijiri And it allows code to run on the client
23:52 octacian Otherwise, if CSMs are allowed, they are meaningful to the player as well since the player can then customize their particular instance.
23:52 Hijiri Lower latency is a qualitative difference when it comes to UI
23:52 octacian I agree.
23:52 rubenwardy the only way it would reduce load is by doing animations by itself (think arrows, etc) without requiring a shit-ton of packets
23:52 Hijiri octacian: No reason server-provided CSM can't allow customization
23:52 octacian paramat: We did. It is technically possible, but easily avoidable.
23:52 Hijiri So is limiting search radius
23:52 Fixer one more test
23:52 octacian Hijiri: What if the player wants to have a custom health HUD, for example.
23:53 Hijiri octacian: You could just allow the parts of the API that don't affect gameplay very much
23:53 Hijiri I would say that a 10 node radius is still too much, you can hug a wall and find a lot more ores than wandering through a cave
23:53 octacian ugh, If someone is going to go to the trouble of making it so that their client side mods can have a larger search radius, they'd probably figure out how to cheat even if the CSMs were disabled by the server
23:54 Hijiri octacian: The difference is that with CSM you have an environment where the cheats all interact nicely with each other, and you don't need to recompile for each new cheat
23:54 octacian Or, they could just not update their client to the version that implemented the checks for whether CSM was enabled and what API functions were available.
23:54 Hijiri you just need to remove the restrictions once and make as many cheat mods as you want
23:54 paramat "The client could probably just avoid it with one line" is no answer. is the ability there now or is it impossible?
23:55 Hijiri octacian: You could make a server disallowing client-provided client mods require clients to send a packet saying that it has disabled them
23:55 octacian It's possible to implement, but not possible to enforce.
23:55 octacian And the client could just send that packet anyways but not disable them
23:55 Hijiri octacian: yes, but you would need to recompile the client, same as with removing the radius restriction
23:55 Hijiri octacian: And you couldn't get around it by using an old version
23:57 octacian This is pointless. My point, is that trying to prevent CSMs is also sorta pointless. It's better to allow CSMs and instead simply take preventions for those items that can be.
23:57 octacian I mean, it could even be made so that radius checks would be sent to the server, and the server would then return the information
23:58 Hijiri octacian: I'm fine with that, as long as prevention means just disabling all parts of the API that could be easily used for cheating
23:58 Hijiri octacian: As long as search radius is useful it will be useful for detecting ores as well
23:58 octacian Also kinda pointless. The best method of prevention is that rather than trying to disable stuff, instead fix the stuff so that there's no need to disable it.
23:58 paramat someone could get around it with a hacked client yes, but that is no argument against making it more difficult to cause trouble
23:58 Hijiri octacian: Why is it pointless?
23:59 Hijiri You have said that it is but not why it is, and why "fixing" it would not be pointless
23:59 octacian I'm all for making it more difficult to cause trouble, But just entirely disallowing CSMs or part of the API doesn't seem like the proper solution to me
23:59 octacian Instead, it seems kinda hacky. It's just a workaround to a problem, rather than a fix to a problem.
23:59 Hijiri Isn't "searching over X radius" part of the API being disabled?
23:59 paramat it can't be fixed, discussing 1 mod's radius is completely missing the point
23:59 Hijiri It's just different levels of disabling
23:59 Hijiri octacian: And why isn't limiting the search radius a hack?
23:59 Hijiri Why is it not a workaround or a fix?

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