Time Nick Message 00:00 Shara Mwahahaha 00:02 Fixer hmm 00:02 Fixer have not had eclair for a year or so 00:03 Shara Fixer: You will obviously need to join the let's-go-visit-Vanessa-for-eclairs expedition. 00:04 Fixer i'm fine with food for now, good night 00:04 Shara Good night :) 00:17 garywhite Just don't fly United 00:17 bigfoot547 lol 01:15 LazyJ Reading over todays archives, if I understand correctly Shara 's DarkLands server was attacked by someone using a hacked client that enabled them to use the /kill command to kill players. 01:16 Shara LazyJ: Seems like. I haven't managed to be present in game when it happens to verify though, and can't find anything in the logs. 01:16 LazyJ So if that command were automated, how many players can be run off from servers to the point they never want to return? 01:16 Shara That's the issue. 01:16 LazyJ 10 players every 10 seconds, iirc. 01:17 Shara I haven't ruled out there being anything useful int he logs yet, just haven't had enough time 01:17 Shara So DL is now closed to new players until I do have enough time to really look at things. 01:18 Shara I don't like it, but at least it means the regular players can carry on playing 01:18 Shara And come next weekend, I'll have some time again 06:59 nerzhul hurry up ! we need more translations for release ! 06:59 nerzhul https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/minetest/minetest/ 07:03 TommyTreasure !tell IhrFussel I just grepped all of MY saved logs for angel*. There is NO LOG ENTRTY for that user EVER logging to DarkLands. If that player's ip matched one of a banned player, that player's ban would have been the result of another players action, and would result in that player seeing the same reason for a ban. 07:03 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: O.K. 07:04 TommyTreasure 07:04 TommyTreasure !tell IhrFussel In response to the reference of 'human rights', let me just say that if I run MY OWN SERVER (and NOT referring to DarkLands or anyone else's server), players are now a visitor of MY HOUSE. I am not selling a product, nor am I selling a service. Therefore I am not bound by any rights nor am I bound by any law, and I can kick or ban for any reason I want. It makes no difference if you or anyone else thinks I 07:04 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: O.K. 07:04 TommyTreasure either right or wrong in my decision. I am the MASTER of MY CASTLE! 07:04 TommyTreasure !tell IhrFussel When I'm acting as moderator on DarkLands, I do my best to follow Shara's guidelines, even if I disagree with them. I've made mistakes in bans, and I've done my best to reverse those that I feel were in error. Shara, as well as any other moderator at DarkLands has the ability to, access to, and free will to reverse any ban I make, without my giving an argument. 07:04 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: O.K. 07:05 TommyTreasure !tell IhrFussel If a player argues with me and posts insults to me, the admins, or another player or even insults the server, I will ban them for that reason. In some cases, just a temporary ban. However, if they post profanity in game chat, and depending on severity of the profanity, I may, and in most cases, WILL BAN without warning. 07:05 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: O.K. 07:05 TommyTreasure !tell IhrFussel If a player joins DarkLands with the intention of, or showing a play style of destruction, harassment of other players, or to just create havoc in the game, I do watch their actions very closely. If that player shows activity of using methods of elevated privlege, I now focus on them. This is not only my right as moderator, its my duty to the admin and server team. And, my duty especially to the other players 07:05 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: O.K. 07:05 TommyTreasure in the game. 07:05 TommyTreasure !tell IhrFussel For what it's worth, your posts in #minetest-hub regarding this subject, closely resemble the style of language used in the comments made to me by the attackers, and your use of 'upper case i' in your nickname closely matches most of the player names used in those attacks. Because of this, if you were to log into DarkLands with your irc nickname as your player name, I especially would watch your actions very 07:05 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: O.K. 07:05 TommyTreasure closely, and if you strayed from the rules, I would have no problem setting a ban on you, and probably without giving warning. Just saying. :) 07:11 CWz TommyTreasure, I hate it when players don't get that 07:13 TommyTreasure some of these people just can't accept the fact that on DarkLands as well as many other servers, player age is under 14 07:14 TommyTreasure the majority, that is 07:14 TommyTreasure the majority of player age, to be more specific 07:49 Shara morning all 07:49 DS-minetest good morning Shara 08:35 CWz a Shara 08:56 cx384 hi all 08:57 nerzhul i'm testing the android build before release 08:57 nerzhul to ensure it works as intended 08:57 nerzhul i hope i can pull a more recent mtg 09:00 TommyTreasure nerzhul, i've heard from a few players using the app from minetest.net, having problems with screen movement. they're saying its way too sensitive 09:01 Shara !tell IhrFussel Okay, now I know why Angelo may have been banned many places. He's the player who has impersonated me (and other well known admins) on multiple servers in attempts to easily get higher privs 09:01 ShadowBot Shara: O.K. 09:02 Shara !tell IhrFussel He's succeeded in doing that at least three times, getting full privs on servers (then damaging them) by using my name. He's also tried the same thing and failed on VE servers and a few others. 09:02 ShadowBot Shara: O.K. 09:03 Shara !tell IhrFussel And I'm sorry if you disagree, but I fully support that any admin bans such a player on sight without attempts at discussion (in part because meaningful discussion with him seems impossible - I tried many times) 09:03 ShadowBot Shara: O.K. 09:05 Shara !tell IhrFussel feel free to confirm this with garywhite or stormchaser. They both had problems due to him as well. 09:05 ShadowBot Shara: O.K. 09:05 Shara And that, I hope, is the end of that little mystery. 09:06 Shara Though he almost certainly wasn't the hacked client user. 09:06 Shara With that, I'm off for the day. See you all laters :) 09:06 * TommyTreasure thinks InhrFussel has some reading to do when he logs in. 09:09 DS-minetest and ShadowBot has much to tell 09:15 TommyTreasure i've noticed that there is a small group of players that think a bad admin is one who doesn't agree with their desires 09:16 TommyTreasure as moderator, i've said so many times -- being a judge, jury, prosecutor, executioner, and still being a friend to players, is one tough job! 09:25 Raven262 I agree with this completely. 09:36 TommyTreasure i have to apologize for my lengthy posts, but so many things seem to be taken out of context. 10:30 TommyTreasure someone had mentioned a bug in the xban mod. can someone post or pm the particulars of the bug, and if the exploit is known? 10:32 red-001 well I know it used to have a bug 10:33 red-001 but afaik it was fixed last year 10:33 red-001 https://github.com/minetest-mods/xban2/commit/877e55078718047323ce2d5b07d004c05414aaf5 11:34 Krock Hello everybody 11:36 red-001 hi Krock 11:36 Thomas-S Hello, Krock! 11:41 DS-minetest lol, the logs of #minetest are now only one column. i assume the count of months is a prime number 11:46 TommyTreasure red-001, i don't have physical access to the xban.db file at DarkLands, but from what both Shara and sniper have told me, bans were removed. Also, the timing seemed to coincide while a 'suspicious player' was in the game. 11:51 TommyTreasure red-001, i'm not sure if the file had been truncated or just selectively modified, but i do know that there have been numerous bans i've made in the past, that were no longer showing. 11:56 TommyTreasure red-001, and as a point of fact, on june 1, i re-banned every ban i had made since february 2017, and only the bans made after our 'attack' showed as 'already banned'. 11:58 TommyTreasure red-001, that leads me to believe that somewhere in the game, or in the mods used on DarkLands has a hole for exploit. might just be my suspicious personality, but i also don't believe in this type of coincidence. 11:59 TommyTreasure has a hole = there may be a hole 12:03 TommyTreasure and since i'm the prime target of the "Permutation Team", i'd sure like to know my soon to be public server is properly locked down. 12:03 Fixer *,...,* 12:08 VaultyTowers theres a whole in the shops mod 12:08 VaultyTowers hole* 12:10 Fixer VaultyTowers: via chest inspector? 12:10 VaultyTowers idk 12:13 Fixer "Toast sounds confirmed for 1.12!" /wat? 12:13 TommyTreasure smart_shop? 12:15 TommyTreasure if so, could you pm me the specifics so i can double check on my test server please? 12:17 red-001 I don't get what the deal with the chest inspector mod is 12:17 red-001 afaik it shouldn't work 12:21 red-001 they use diffrent formspec handlers 12:22 red-001 well seeing is believing so I suppose thats what I should do 12:30 red-001 nvm 12:30 red-001 well that should be fixed 12:32 TommyTreasure what i'm mainly interested in would be a leak that would a player to truncate, delete or modify the xban.db file at will 12:32 TommyTreasure i know for a fact the file was changed at least 2 times in the past 2 months 12:33 TommyTreasure ^^^^^ at darklands 12:34 TommyTreasure and the log entry of 'unbanned playername' is not being recorded 12:35 red-001 what does the "darklands" mod do? 12:36 TommyTreasure allows lack of light to be a kill method 12:36 TommyTreasure hazard, rather 12:37 TommyTreasure i believe it also comes with hbhunger for the 'eyeball' display 12:37 red-001 so what is "bewarethedark" then? 12:37 TommyTreasure i think that's the name of the mod or subgame. not totally sure on which one. 12:38 red-001 well I'm just reading through the mod list 12:38 red-001 wondering which one could be the exploitable one 12:39 TommyTreasure this would be the better place to explore https://github.com/bendeutsch/minetest-bewarethedark 12:39 red-001 so thats the lack of ligth is dangerous mod right? 12:40 red-001 so "darklands" must be a custom mod for the server right? 12:40 TommyTreasure i would assume so, but afik, the link is what shara uses 12:40 TommyTreasure used* 12:40 TommyTreasure for her game 12:41 red-001 alright I would check custom mods for exploits first 12:41 red-001 since the chances are less people had a chance to review the code for those 12:42 red-001 (but then worldedit was really popular and it had a remote code execution exploit) 12:42 TommyTreasure i've only know shara since last fall, but i'm fully confident she's been through each and every mod with a fine tooth comb. 12:42 TommyTreasure had, but as of when? 12:43 TommyTreasure and has it been fixed? if so, when? 12:43 red-001 for a few years it had an exploit 12:43 red-001 I got fixed a few weeks ago 12:43 red-001 it* 12:44 TommyTreasure would that allow for the removal of a file on the server? 12:44 red-001 definatly 12:44 red-001 but you don't have worldedit on the server 12:44 TommyTreasure with a normal client? 12:44 TommyTreasure i think it is there, but only enabled when needed 12:44 red-001 well it required small modifications 12:45 red-001 note: small 12:45 red-001 you just had to fake a formspec submission 12:45 TommyTreasure to this day, i have never even tried to work with a modified client, and i really don't plan on it in the future either 12:46 red-001 the sort of thing that basic security would solve 12:46 TommyTreasure but knowing it can be modified easily would be of interest to me and probably a few other admins too 12:47 TommyTreasure red, i'm still on the noob side of m/t as an admin, so a lot of this is super important for me 12:47 red-001 well welcome to computer security 101 12:48 red-001 our motto is "don't trust the client" 12:48 TommyTreasure right now, i'm semi-retired and disabled enough to let me spend all my awake hours in front of my screen, so i plenty of time to research and fix my stuff before it goes public 12:49 TommyTreasure knowing what to look for, and how to quickly fix is what i'm looking for. 12:49 TommyTreasure right now, i've set a crontab to backup my xban.db file ever 4 hours 12:49 TommyTreasure and keep an archive for 2 months 12:50 red-001 well basicly it seems most exploits I have seen in mods are caused by a single mistake 12:50 TommyTreasure as well as full world directory backups once a day 12:50 red-001 they trust that a formspec must be sent to the client in order to get formspec submission 12:51 TommyTreasure i know its a tough job to do, but a forum topic for know issues, restricted access, would be great! 12:51 TommyTreasure known* 12:51 TommyTreasure restricted - registered and vetted forum members 12:51 red-001 so when they recievce a formspec called for instance "super_secrect_admin_panel" they just do their thing before checking if the player that summited it is an admin 12:53 red-001 well I suppose I could write a PSA about the correct handling of formspecs 12:53 TommyTreasure so, that would depend on server lag for execution? 12:54 red-001 I think a flow diagram would explain this best 12:54 TommyTreasure not that its funny, but there was an old joke in the dos days of bbs's. 'to save disk space, delete all files beginning with README' 12:55 TommyTreasure but how about for the 'non-coding literate' admins, such as me? 12:56 TommyTreasure i can get through the easier stuff like spawn chance, drop items, and things like that, but i'm at a loss for anything more complex 13:21 red-001 https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/blob/master/Untitled%20Diagram.svg 13:27 TommyTreasure red-001, makes very good sense, ty 13:32 red-001 alright I made an updated version that should be more clear, I might post it on the forum later 13:36 red-001 oh the forum doesn't allow embedded base64 encoded images 13:38 TommyTreasure i need to go out of town for the day. won't be back till tomorrow. i'll look for it then 13:41 red-001 well this is the best I can do for now https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/blob/master/formspec%20spoofing.pdf 13:51 red-001 hi IhrFussel 13:51 red-001 bad connection sniper338 ? 13:56 IhrFussel TommyTreasure, Accusing me of being a suspicious person is NOT nice by the way...you shouldn't use the name for any kind of accusations ESPECIALLY when you don't even understand what the user name means in the first place ... and I still disagree with you...ONLY because my house is owned by me does NOT mean I can do whatever the f*** I want with my guests! 13:57 IhrFussel I have to follow laws, I SHOULD follow common sense...I should RESPECT everybody as much as I can 14:01 red-001 imho server owners can do whatever they want with there servers as long as they don't break the laws, but that doesn't mean you can't think less of them if they don't act responsibly 14:01 red-001 their* 14:04 IhrFussel Server owners should not be able to do whatever they want is my opinion...they should have to act responsibly, they should NOT touch the rights of others...and the same applies not only to server owners but to YouTubers, bloggers, forum admins etc 14:06 IhrFussel I see myself as FAIR because I do not ban people only because they ANNOY me...I do not ban people for critique, I don't ban them for disagreeing with me, I don't ban them without EVIDENCE ... if you think the way I think is wrong I don't know what to tell you 14:08 IhrFussel What IF someone adds a server rule "you have to send me nudes" IS THAT OK? 14:08 red-001 well you see you are looking at allowed vs should 14:09 red-001 such a server should be boycotted 14:10 red-001 you are in no way forced to play on a server 14:12 IhrFussel Regarding "if you don't like the owner/admin you can just play elsewhere": You are probably forgetting that the player might not like the server owner BUT the community...maybe the person got their friends on this server... there are only 2 options then: 1 leave EVERYONE behind 2 OBEY the server owner 14:16 IhrFussel I think many players feel like that "I don't like the server rules and they violate parts of my rights but I am forced to follow them or else I can't play here anymore" 14:17 nore IhrFussel: no server rules are violating anyone's rights. 14:17 Sokomine hm, yes, compromises may sometimes be needed 14:18 IhrFussel nore, that is YOUR opinion that NOBODY on any game server should have any rights...but luckily it's not the opinion of the majortity 14:18 nore IhrFussel: as I said, tell me the rights that are violated 14:19 nore (I am talking about rights guaranteed by law) 14:19 Sokomine at least all you risk by playing on a server is that you might loose access to it (for a number of reasons...might just be a map reset or the server going offline). doing a local backup of it is a very good idea. if the admin is really so unberable maybe your friends will switch servers as well 14:20 IhrFussel What I mean by rights is "common things that should just not be disallowed" like talking to X about Y ... the rights defined by law are different in every country, I was not talking about those 14:21 nore Then we misunderstood each other, sorry 14:21 IhrFussel Of course a server cannot apply all laws of all countries...that would result in a pile of crap 14:21 nore I think I'll just stop arguing about that subject 14:22 Sokomine nore: hm, yes. maybe the wisest option 14:24 IhrFussel For example I think reading PMs WITHOUT a particular reason should not be allowed (and is illegal in Germany luckily) ... that's like walking over to a couple on the streets and listening to their whispering 14:25 IhrFussel And the owner of a restaurant doesn't do that either even though the people use THEIR service 14:31 IhrFussel But the most absurd rule I see on quite a few servers is this one "Do not argue with admins/moderators about a decision" and it just shows how MIGHTY the owner feels and how holy the staff must be 14:32 paramat IhrFussel "I have to follow laws" no-one is suggesting server admin can break the law. also, players do not have 'rights' (of the non-legal kind) on a server, they have priviledges kindly given by their host. imagine if a guest in your house says "i have the right to stay here as long as i want, to say and do what i want". finally, everyone here agrees that it is preferable that server admin behave well 14:33 IhrFussel paramat, I'm not talking about such extreme "rights" I am talking about the right to talk to Y INSIDE your house, the right to visit ANOTHER house WITHOUT being seen as "not allowed here anymore" I'm talking about those rights 14:34 IhrFussel The right to use your toilet AFTER you invited the people to your house 14:34 IhrFussel It's just common sense to me 14:34 Sokomine IhrFussel: i think you're a bit mistaken about that rule. it's most likely born out of admins beeing desperate after players who certainly violated rules arguing for hours like the children they are about the topic and the poor admin having no time for anything else 14:35 paramat if players feel it is ok to argue excessively with admin or mods about a decision then there would never-ending argument, it's done for practicality because the alternative is chaos that ruins the server for everyone and takes up all of the admin/mods time 14:36 Sokomine IhrFussel: you're certainly right about private messages. those ought to stay private and are no matter for the admin (not that they'd have time to read them) 14:36 paramat guests do not have rights, they have priviledges 14:37 red-001 paramat, so it's as productive as this discussion? 14:37 IhrFussel So am I someone special then since I am able to just simply ignore the players if they argue too much or if I think it makes no sense to continue the discussion? 14:38 Sokomine IhrFussel: see that rule just as an explanation for "admin stops to talk to players if they get too silly". really nothing more on most servers :-) still, there's always room for personal misunderstanding or two people just not getting along at all 14:39 Sokomine most server owners do behave reasonable. at least those of well-established servers. with new servers it might require time to get to know each other 14:40 paramat a guest who claims they have 'rights' within your home would be extremely rude to say so 14:40 Sokomine and now...er...i was planning to argue with some mobs. they need to learn to sleep at night - in beds they can't get into. might be...tricky 14:41 IhrFussel paramat, I said "rights" because English isn't my native language and I didn't know what to call them exactly... I simply mean things that make sense while people are at your house...why would you disallow them to use your bathroom? 14:43 IhrFussel Or why would you disallow a certain guy to talk to a girl inside your house? What's the point? 14:44 paramat "I am able to just simply ignore the players if they argue too much or if I think it makes no sense to continue the discussion?" only a fool would not do these things, these are reasonable and practical things to do, otherwise players would walk all over you and the server ruined for everyone 14:45 paramat ok, a language thing, sorry 14:51 TommyTreasure IhrFussel, i really don't care what you think of my rights on my machine, and my thoughts of you as a player. And you are correct, i don't know what the nickname means, and i also don't really care. your attitude, lack of respect as shown in this channel, and feeling that my server has to meet your requirements definitely puts you at the top of my watch list. 14:51 red-001 well lets just agree to disagree 14:51 red-001 we don't want to have to change channel again 14:52 TommyTreasure and that is my last comment on this subject. 14:52 IhrFussel TommyTreasure, sorry to say but in my opinion you are sick...this is also my last comment on this subject 14:54 red-001 well thats partially an autological sentence 14:55 Sokomine TommyTreasure: but...yours and IhrFussels values might align in most ways in the end. it's maybe a slightly diffrent environment (you: place for children to be safe; ihrfussel: wants to interact with reasonable adults) but that ought to be no problem in practical circumstances. you plain simply wouldn't do the things ihrfussel dislikes because you'd consider them immorale as well 14:57 red-001 I mean I can see both points of view 14:57 red-001 I just think the right of the host to do what they want with their server is more important 14:57 red-001 human rights can conflict after all 14:58 TommyTreasure ok, breaking my self declared last post on subject..... 14:58 TommyTreasure this whole discussion started over a banned player that was never on the darklands server. so i have no idea of what his point is, and why i'm being attacked for it 14:59 TommyTreasure never on, never banned 15:01 TommyTreasure i have 1/2 hour before i have to leave, so if Infussel will be kind enough to post the said users nick name, i will once again grep my logs and post what i have on that player 15:02 TommyTreasure maybe that was too much to ask? 15:04 red-001 Shara already said why the user was banned 15:04 TommyTreasure IhrFussel, my apologies for misspelling your name. 15:05 red-001 they where impersonating admins and using it to gain privs 15:05 red-001 and then abusing them 15:05 TommyTreasure that wasn't the user mentioned yesterday 15:05 TommyTreasure it was angelo1123 or something 15:05 IhrFussel Okay once and for all: An admin on a certain server accused the player "angelo" of having attacked the DarkLands server and was banned on his server for it...and I wanted to know if such an attack by "angelo" EVER happened and it turns out it did NOT...so the admin of the server lied 15:06 TommyTreasure there was no angelo* ever on darklands according to my logs, and i never banned that user 15:07 IhrFussel Yes so the admin of that server lied to his players, that's all I needed to know 15:07 TommyTreasure my command was grep "banned ang" *.log result, nothing to show 15:08 TommyTreasure also ran it case insensitive 15:08 LazyJ Players can use different names on different servers. 15:09 TommyTreasure so your accusations to me were based off a lie another admin told you about me. now, that's a violation of my rights! agreed? 15:09 red-001 Hanlon's razor, they could have a faulty source of information or have made a mistake 15:09 LazyJ The IP would be a better indicator, but then those could be behind a VPN or at least a dynamic IP. 15:10 Sokomine red-001: yes. that's a very likely explanation 15:11 TommyTreasure i try to act as a very responsible and impartial moderator. i don't ban on the request of another moderator. i will only ban by the request of the admin, and that's only happened once in my history of darklands 15:11 IhrFussel TommyTreasure, I didn't accuse anyone of anything I think...I simply wanted to know if the admin told his players the truth and was looking for confirmation or deny 15:12 Sokomine afaik whoever ran that attack on the darkland server is not known. at least that's how i understood what shara wrote 15:12 TommyTreasure but when a player uses vulger language within 1 minute of another player saying they just turned 7 years old, you bet your bippy that player will be banned, and banned without warning 15:13 TommyTreasure then in the future, please ask in a more civilized manner. 15:13 red-001 I don't know your server, but wouldn't muting be more appropiate? 15:13 IhrFussel Yes so the admin said "it was angelo" but the truth is "nobody knows who it was" which results in admin lied, and that's all I wanted to check 15:13 TommyTreasure i don't have the priv to remove shout on darklands 15:14 red-001 huh 15:14 TommyTreasure well, apparently his lie caused massive off topic posting by the both of us 15:14 TommyTreasure and that's not fair to the rest of the channel members. they have their rights here too 15:15 TommyTreasure my privs at darklands are that of a normal player with the addition of kick, ban, and server restart. 15:15 IhrFussel I wouldn't call it "off-topic" since we talked about server owners and server rules ... but yes we drifted a bit away from the actual topic 15:16 TommyTreasure then lets call it a truce and drop it 15:16 * TommyTreasure sends handshake to IhrFussel 15:17 TommyTreasure and we can agree to disagree on how to administer privileges on our own servers 15:22 TommyTreasure i guess i'll have to wait until i return home to see if my offer has been accepted or rejected. time to leave for now. 15:23 Sokomine you're really both very close together in what you'd expect of others :-) there may be small differences in detail but really nothing for a real conflict 15:26 IhrFussel No it's fine I agree...we just have different POVs about certain things regarding running a server 15:57 IhrFussel Shara, I didn't mean to say that angelo was a nice player or that he do bad things...just in this particular case he wasn't the cause 15:57 IhrFussel that he didn't do bad things* 16:03 IhrFussel Or let's say there is no evidence that suggests that he was it 16:29 Jordach it's high noot 16:32 paramat Shara are you happy with your credits in updated https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5840 ? 16:51 nerzhul paramat, looking to update it 16:58 paramat ok 17:16 red-001 !test 17:16 paramat mine! 17:21 Krock uhmm.. paramat, there's an edit button 17:22 Krock 9 comments in a row. that's a record 17:23 nerzhul okay then i should prepare translation 17:23 nerzhul i'm going to lock weblate 17:36 paramat :] yeah, intentional. when working rapidly on something another dev may be quickly reading each comment as it is made, and can then miss edits to earlier comments. so i do this in hot situations 17:56 Jordach Calinou, top fucking kek 17:56 Jordach https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/6f036e/denuvo_is_using_software_from_other_company/ 17:56 Jordach tl;dr denuvo pirated software 17:56 Calinou haha 17:56 Calinou :') 17:56 Jordach from another company, while v4 that doesn't use the software is broken in less than a week 17:56 Calinou well, Doom was crack-free for ~3 months, but it was one of the first Denuvo games IIRC 17:56 Calinou and they removed it eventually 17:57 Calinou (which made it possible to run it in WINE) 17:57 Jordach Calinou, and DOOM ran beautifully with or without it 18:00 Jordach the 770 i had ran it like a turd in water 18:00 Jordach the RX480 made it buttery 18:02 NathanS21 Can somebody please give NatedaGr8 voice? 18:02 NathanS21 It's my alt account for on my phone. 18:12 Sokomine how was creating a debug build again? someone had that in his signature but i don't remember 18:14 NatedaGr8 thanks VanessaE 18:14 VanessaE sure. 18:22 Calinou Jordach: there's Vulkan in Doom now, it ran very smoothly here last time I tried it 18:23 Calinou since it exploits the GPU better than OpenGL, you can easily hear the GPU though :P 18:23 Calinou (and Doom doesn't have a FPS limit setting in console, from a quick look) 18:40 * red-001 wonders if any of the typical minetest youtubers have made release videos 18:41 * NathanS21 wonders why red-001 doesn't know about his channel, and the release videos 18:42 * Krock knows NathanS21's channel but didn't subscribe it yet 18:42 Calinou "Epic Rap Battles of History: Minetest 0.4.16" 18:42 Fixer Calinou: GZdoom dev may be interested in minetest 18:43 Calinou ah, I saw the Inocudom thread 18:43 Fixer said Inocodum on #minetest yesterday 18:43 Calinou why would he be interested in it? 18:43 Fixer Calinou: why not? 18:43 garywhite Hmm...I have to re-download MT, but I'm debating if I should just wait for tomorrow's 0.4.16 18:43 red-001 who knows 18:43 Calinou Fixer: I don't see why, basically 18:43 Calinou I usually download daily builds, garywhite 18:43 Calinou or compile myself 18:43 Krock garywhite, wait two days and you'll have the after-release patches too 18:44 Fixer Calinou: why not? :} 18:45 Fixer Calinou: you don't want more help on engine? 18:46 red-001 just never update minetest 18:46 red-001 that way once minetest stops being developed you will be able to get the finnal version 18:46 red-001 and it will never go out of date 18:46 Calinou Fixer: meh, we need to fix specific things 18:46 Calinou like the GUI system 19:08 * NathanS21 goes to record a minetest video 19:09 * red-001 pings some package maintainers 19:10 paramat 0.4.16! 19:16 paramat an amazing release too 19:26 garywhite 0.4.16 \o/ 19:26 NathanS21 time to work on finishing my release video 19:26 garywhite Rats, red beat me to it 19:26 red-001 well here paramat did 19:28 red-001 oh great I think weather personaly hates me 19:28 red-001 just when I plan to go outside it starts lashing outside 19:37 Fixer 0.4.16 arrived https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBZJATmXkAA5IA4.jpg:large 19:38 red-001 Fixer, why? 19:39 Krock photoshop or original-ugly? 19:39 red-001 I fear original 19:39 DS-minetest + 19:39 Fixer https://www.wgsn.com/blogs/central-saint-martins-ba-2017-the-ones-to-watch/ 19:39 DS-minetest found something about 16: http://www.nyan.cat/newyear 19:40 red-001 well a reverse image search seems to indicate original 19:42 Fixer Krock: original 19:42 Krock eeks 19:42 DS-minetest red-001: don't look at it too much, it will effect you 19:43 DS-minetest what do you think, why the trousers are red? 20:04 NathanS21 a changelog!!! I can use my original intro now. :) 20:10 Dumbeldor :D 20:13 Fixer rememba this bug? https://i.imgur.com/RCmzO0a.png 20:13 * Fixer pokes VanessaE 20:13 VanessaE ow. 20:14 Fixer VanessaE: thats pic from your dreamb survival server, you can replace those shrubs near spawn 20:15 VanessaE that was probably a leftover from the old junglegrass mod in plantlife 20:24 * Krock tries hard to see the bug 20:24 * Krock can only see dryed out plants 20:26 lisac hey, new version! 20:26 lisac nice. 20:26 lisac :P 20:26 lisac I made something. https://youtu.be/fWjzMmwCfA4 20:27 lisac it controls volume 20:27 lisac red-001, ^ 20:28 red-001 you curely, curely, *******! 20:29 red-001 cruel* 20:29 lisac :D took me whole day 20:29 lisac At least now I know a bit more about SDL 20:29 red-001 lisac, you on reddit? 20:29 Krock thumbs up for this weekend project 20:29 lisac yes. :P 20:29 red-001 post it to r/ProgrammerHumor/ 20:29 lisac I know. 20:29 lisac I got the idea there 20:30 lisac it's the stupid volume week 20:30 lisac thanks Krock 20:30 Calinou /r/ProgrammerHumor/ is great :D 20:30 Krock red-001, or programminghorror depending on code quality 20:30 red-001 r/softwaregore 20:31 red-001 you can hate me latter 20:31 lisac Krock, Most likely horror 20:31 lisac wait, I'll post it to github 20:31 * red-001 goes off to improve the change log 20:32 Krock wtf what's up with all these volume sliders? 20:32 red-001 Krock, that subreddit, like all other subreddits, tends to murder dead horses 20:33 Krock lol 20:34 Krock "Volume selector... Literally." https://jsfiddle.net/vjhwzLf2/1/ I CAN'T ANYMORE HAHAH 20:35 Krock that came somewhat unexpected 20:35 red-001 oh btw what do you think of my shitty infographic https://raw.githubusercontent.com/red-001/diagrams/master/formspec%20spoofing.jpg 20:36 Krock "formsoec" 20:37 red-001 Krock, make a pull request 20:37 Krock k 20:37 red-001 https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/issues/new 20:38 lisac https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/6f3cuj/i_felt_inspired_by_the_recent_volume_controls/ 20:38 * red-001 goes back to abusing github to store random files 20:38 lisac github link in the comments. :P 20:38 Fixer recent volume controls? 20:39 Fixer someone said gnome? 20:39 * Fixer looks 20:41 red-001 oh btw I used https://www.draw.io/ to make the flowcart 20:41 red-001 the .xml is the format it uses 20:42 Calinou lol, there's a volume slider meme 20:42 Calinou I remember the phone number selector ones 20:42 red-001 Calinou, as do I 20:45 red-001 alright fix the issue you pointed out Krock 20:45 red-001 fixed* 20:45 Krock red-001, <.< 20:45 Krock https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/pull/1 20:46 red-001 oh sorry 20:46 Krock JPEG seems to have troubles with red-black 20:47 red-001 should I try exporting a png then? 20:47 red-001 well I would prefer to use an SVG but that doesn't seem to work well with github 20:48 Krock lol, I don't care. Trashing this PR now 20:48 Krock was supposed to be a joke anyways 20:50 lisac hey what about this one? https://i.redd.it/8bnjhfcslh1z.gif 21:04 red-001 updating http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog to include authors of PR's 21:04 bigfoot547 +1 21:06 nerzhul thanks red-001 21:17 Shara Hi all 21:17 bigfoot547 Hi Shara 21:17 red-001 wow this is more exhasting then I though it would be 21:17 Shara red-001: if you are updating changelog info there, any chance of adding the new options I did to it? 21:17 Shara Not sure why they weren't included yet 21:18 Fixer Valve announced today that anyone will be able to publish games on Steam through its previously announced Steam Direct program for "a $100 recoupable publishing fee per game." 21:18 Shara I think the consol height and node highlighting options are worth a mention 21:19 red-001 Shara, I'm just adding the correct authors for existing parts of the changelog 21:19 red-001 right now that is 21:19 Shara who is in charge of the change log itself then? Guessing my work was skipped for the same reason crediting me was originally skipped 21:19 nerzhul red-001, i didn't have courage for this, haha 21:20 nerzhul i think monthly or bi monthly changelog update can be nice 21:20 Shara But I think those options deserve a mention at least as much as some of the things that are included already 21:21 Shara Quite a few people wanted thos eoptions, after all 21:21 sfan5 Core 0: +97.0°C (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C) 21:21 Shara wanted those* 21:21 sfan5 this doesn't look healthy 21:21 sfan5 i think my laptops fan died 21:21 Shara sfan5: ouch 21:22 bigfoot547 Man, your computer has a fever! 21:22 sfan5 it's pretty much burning when you touch it 21:22 red-001 nerzhul, yes that would help 21:22 Fixer sfan5: or it is apple... :trollface: 21:23 sfan5 nah 21:23 sfan5 the fan works again now 21:23 sfan5 but its making weird sounds 21:24 sfan5 just gotta compile minetest... 21:24 Krock lisac, oh look. It's another volume slider http://i.imgur.com/BSLp1f2.png 21:26 Shara nerzhul: Are you the one doing changelog? 21:26 nerzhul i did core changelog 1 month ago yes 21:27 Shara Why are the options I added missing? 21:27 red-001 should trival changes, e.g. changing a setting be attributed? 21:27 Shara red-001: some of the things included seem much more trivial than the options I added 21:27 nerzhul red-001, i don't know, main features are interesting 21:28 nerzhul Shara, don't be evil, some things can have been forgotten, i'm human :p 21:28 Shara I assume it's the same reason my PRs weren't counted when working out contributors 21:28 Shara nerzhul: It's no complaint, but could you please add them? 21:28 red-001 Shara, if you can write a description of them in wiki markdown I will add them 21:28 Shara I don't even have wiki account there, so I think no easy way to check the markdown 21:28 red-001 I don't have time to dig through commits right now 21:29 Shara I can tell you what they do though 21:29 red-001 Shara, just write a description 21:29 red-001 and put it on pastebin or something 21:30 Shara 1 - console height can now be set by the player. 2 - Additional option added to node highlighting drop-drop. 21:30 Shara Not sure if you need more detail 21:31 Shara drop-down* 21:32 red-001 alright I will add that 21:32 Shara Thank you. 21:32 red-001 chat console right? 21:32 Shara 1 especially had some players compiling their own clients instead of using the official ones, so it would be nice if people see that was added 21:33 Shara The one from f10, yes. 21:33 red-001 alright added 21:33 red-001 I credited you as "Shara" 21:34 Shara Could you either list it as Shara/Ezhh or Shara RedCat? 21:34 Shara I don't care which. Just there is another person also using "Shara" as their MT identity 21:34 red-001 Shara "Ezhh" Redcat? 21:35 Shara That would be weird, since Ezhh is sort of my name :P 21:35 red-001 oh lol 21:35 Shara :D 21:36 red-001 went for "Shara Redcat" since the other one could look like two people where working on it 21:37 Shara drop-down, not drop-drop :D 21:37 Shara Sorry for my typos 21:37 Shara It's been a really long day 21:39 Shara thanks red :) 21:43 red-001 alright the changelog is mostly fixed 21:43 red-001 still not sure about the authorship of eight remain enteries 21:43 red-001 but that can be fixed some other time 21:44 Shara (RedCat, not Redcat, by the way :P) 21:44 Shara But not a big deal 21:44 red-001 http://screamintothevoid.com/ 21:45 lisac has anyone seen this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17787 21:45 Shara Just is nice to be listed as what I actually use 21:47 red-001 well there goes trying to use good summeries for the edit history 21:47 Shara lisac: if this person can make improvements, they can talk to the devs or submit a PR like everyone else. 21:47 red-001 (+4)‎ . . (This is a summery.) (undo) 21:47 Shara Everyone is always going to welcome someone who can make the game better 21:50 lisac Shara, I know 21:50 lisac Just seems strange 21:50 red-001 how so? 21:50 Shara Lots of people claim they can make things better, but never actually do anything 21:51 red-001 ^ 21:51 lisac probably. 21:51 red-001 I mean no hard feeling, optimization is hard 21:51 red-001 +s 21:52 Shara So if they try to improve things, great, and I think the devs will be happy to help them any way that's needed. But there's nothing to be done until they do something 21:53 red-001 huh I should compile 0.4.16 21:53 Shara Is it actually ready now? 21:54 paramat yeah 21:54 red-001 eh yes? 21:55 Shara Hmm, I should as well then, but probably not awake enough :) 21:56 lisac I'm compiling it right now 21:56 red-001 well to para-phrase someone "this is the part where I regreat using daily builds" 21:57 lisac Shara, what OS are you on that compilation requires full concentration? :) 21:57 red-001 windows 21:57 Shara Compiling for me means other computer, and I'm not even sure where I left that :) 21:57 red-001 have you tried compiling minetest on windows? 21:57 lisac lol okay :) 21:57 lisac red-001, Yes. 21:57 Fixer I must this Jungle server is really impressive and nice 21:57 lisac I did it once 21:57 Shara Compiling on windows is pain. I gave up. 21:57 Fixer I must say* 21:57 Shara Other computer is linux. 21:58 red-001 I just installed linux after a while 21:58 Shara But that's a laptop, and could be in any room of the house so... 21:58 Calinou have you tried compiling minetest on windows? 21:58 Calinou I have, it worked once, that was last year, with VS 2015 21:59 Calinou it's a pain 21:59 Calinou some libraries were linked statically, others dynamically 21:59 Fixer Shara: laptop still needs to be linked to 220V a lot of the time 21:59 Shara red-001: Yes.. have done same. But I need to keep the main machine on windows for work/study 21:59 lisac Calinou, Windows itself is a pain. 21:59 Calinou maybe MinGW is easier to get working, I don't know 21:59 Calinou it would be *much* easier if we had a .dll/.lib pack 21:59 Fixer Shara: not sure about other countries, but here power outlets are fucking placed in retarted places :( 21:59 Calinou that we could ship as an additional download 21:59 Calinou so that users can compile easily for Windows 21:59 red-001 http://i.imgur.com/RqDYzmk.png 21:59 Shara Fixer: Hmm, never had much issue with that 21:59 Calinou (we don't have to advertise it on download page, just on GItHub) 22:00 lisac Fixer, position of power outlets here depends upon the age of the building. 22:00 lisac >20y ago you've got communist, 1m ones 22:00 Fixer lisac: much older 22:00 lisac <20y, the new, .5m ones 22:00 Shara Calinou: would be nice really. Despite common belief, some windows users actually can write some code and even make PRs! So easy compiling would be nice. 22:00 Calinou the alternative is building all libraries in-tree by default 22:01 Calinou but I'm sure many developers would hate that :) 22:01 Calinou but that's what Godot does 22:01 Calinou so we have control on all libraries 22:01 red-001 I mean if you can figure out the arcan magic needed to build on windows 22:01 red-001 then writing code is easy 22:01 Fixer Shara: for example, I want a outlet near table in kitchen, but there is none, because people forget to place it there :} 22:01 Shara I've built on windows several times... but it's always such a pain. 22:01 Calinou red-001: even for seasoned programmers, it is not easy 22:01 Calinou you need to go to random library websites, find their source code, get it to compile (some use CMake, but not all) 22:01 Fixer Calinou: cross-compile from lin to win via mingw with buildbot script is pretty easy 22:01 red-001 arcane magic* 22:01 Calinou make sure it works with your version of Visual Studio or MinGW (not a given) 22:01 Shara If I want to make or test some small PR... it's just not worth the time 22:01 red-001 Calinou, I didn't say it was 22:01 Calinou Fixer: MinGW is likely easy 22:01 Jordach if you build it for windows it's easier to port it * rollsafe* 22:01 Calinou MSVC is not... 22:02 Calinou but MSVC is deemed to be faster (although MinGW should be fast enough in most cases) 22:02 red-001 MinGW is suppose to be easier? 22:02 Calinou it likely is for the kind of software that is Minetest 22:02 Fixer Calinou: MSVC is automatable, i was using modified celerons script in 2012 to autobuild it 22:02 Calinou Minetest, is, after all, mainly developed on/for Linux 22:02 Calinou Fixer: it's automatable to an extent... for example, almost nobody has a Windows server for that kind of thing 22:02 lisac Can't you install cygwin on Windows, then cross compile? 22:02 red-001 but mostly used on android 22:02 Calinou if you want 24/7 automatic builds, you can't use MSVC for that really 22:02 Calinou (except with AppVeyor) 22:02 Shara lisac: cywin makes my headache 22:03 red-001 cywin is even more of a pain 22:03 Calinou lisac: 1) that means using MinGW, 2) you need Cygwin libraries to run the resulting program, which sucks 22:03 Shara cygwin* 22:03 Calinou just use native MinGW 22:03 Calinou http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php :P 22:03 red-001 MSVC is easier to deal with the the double arcane mess that is cygwin 22:03 Calinou MSVC isn't that easy to deal with, I've found 22:03 Calinou it's also comparatively huge in file size 22:03 red-001 I know 22:03 Shara Anything at all is easier to deal with than cygwin... 22:03 Calinou (MSVC 2017, here, was about 14 GB to install. And they've made a lot of efforts on the install size and startup time) 22:03 red-001 still less horrible then cygwin 22:04 lisac hey there isn't a graphical way to enable/disable CSM mods? :O 22:04 red-001 lisac, nope 22:04 Calinou Visual Studio 2017 starts quite quickly now, which is good 22:04 Fixer i used this in 2012 for msvc: https://pastebin.com/raw/6PNGfYui (old msvc on XP, hardcoded paths...) 22:04 Calinou but I don't use the IDE itself anyway 22:04 Fixer Calinou: there is workaround 22:04 lisac red-001, Doesn't seem very release-ready 22:04 Fixer Calinou: that needs 1gb or so 22:04 lisac most users won't be able to enable them 22:04 Shara I just need to work out how to compile windows client from linux to be happy really 22:04 Shara But didn't try that yet 22:04 red-001 I used to have a semi-compenent build system set up in on windows for minetest 22:05 red-001 but then I was forced to reinstall windows 22:05 Calinou Fixer: I know you can install just the build tools, yeah 22:05 Calinou probably around 5 GB 22:05 Calinou so it's much more affordable for small SSD users 22:05 red-001 so I decided to just install arch instead of fix it to work again 22:05 Calinou Shara: cross-compiling Linux-to-Windows should be quite easy 22:05 * VaultyTowers is going to attempt playing Beyond good and evil on his PCSX2 emulator 22:05 Calinou probably easier than using MinGW on Windows, in fact 22:05 red-001 Calinou, huh? 22:05 Calinou I've done it with Godot to give someone a testing build, it worked well 22:05 Shara Calinou: for someone who has a clue, I'm sure it is :) 22:05 Calinou the distro had pre-built packages for libraries 22:05 Shara But I've never tried before and have no clue :) 22:05 red-001 maybe I should give cross compiling a shot then 22:05 Calinou VaultyTowers: I've never used emulators, all the games I like are on PC 22:06 Calinou #QuakeFan 22:06 VaultyTowers #ZeldaAin'tPCAvailable 22:06 red-001 well not now 22:06 red-001 I'm half dead after fixing that changelog 22:07 Shara red-001: any documentation is guaranteed to give headaches. I work with this stuff, so I relate 22:07 Shara It's kind of why I have not attempted to get a wiki account and so on 22:08 Fixer Calinou: still, 14gb is fucking ridiculous 22:08 red-001 don't want to do the same thing you do at work in your free time right? 22:08 Shara Kind of 22:09 Shara I worked as a technical writer for quite some time, and also managed some company wikis. 22:09 Calinou Fixer: well, we live in the era of 250+ GB SSDs now 22:09 Calinou it's fine to me 22:09 Calinou if you are a commercial developer, you usually have a fancy, modern machine 22:09 Calinou (lots of open source projects use MSVC, but still) 22:09 Fixer Calinou: yes, but it is not really necessary to DL and install so much 22:09 Calinou (but lots of open source devs also do commercial work :P) 22:09 Shara I probably should take a look at MT documentation at some point though in general 22:09 Fixer Calinou: they need modularity 22:09 Calinou Shara: I had over 4,000 edits on Minecraft wiki 22:09 Calinou done between 2011 and 2014 22:10 Shara See if there is anything I can fixing without wanting to hurt myself 22:10 Calinou heck, I saw a blog post of someone talking about ambient occlusion that used a GIF I uploaded to the wiki 22:10 Shara fix* 22:10 Calinou I was almost famous, except they did not give attribution :D 22:10 Calinou but now I'm no longer involved in the Minecraft community 22:10 Calinou (and play it very occasionally only) 22:11 Shara Calinou: I have nothing but respect for that 22:11 Fixer Calinou: now do minetest edits 22:11 Shara I know the work/effort that kind of maintenance can take 22:12 Shara and yes, it's generally thankless work too 22:12 Fixer LazyJ: gonna make a mooove? >0.4.16 ? 22:12 Fixer Shara: gonna make a mooove? >0.4.16 ? 22:12 Shara Fixer: I plan to get a new VPS set up after my exams for done 22:13 Shara then will look at moving RC to .16 22:13 Calinou Shara: thanks :) 22:13 Calinou yeah, I documented a ton of things, took 50+ screenshots to update old ones 22:13 Calinou I got to know the admins quite well over time :P 22:14 LazyJ Fixer - Not for awhile. I want to see what problems other servers have with it first. 22:14 Shara Calinou: people generally don't even realise the preparation that goes into handling screenshots correctly. 22:14 Calinou yeah 22:14 Calinou setting the right settings, possible edits (I made 2 or 3 GIFs too) 22:14 Shara I previosuly had to write guidesw on how to do this... 22:14 Shara guides* 22:14 Calinou also worked a bit on the French wiki, but most of my work was in English 22:14 Calinou (which did help me improve my English quite a bit) 22:15 Shara Silly (and to me obvious) things like making sure other things don't show in the background, seem hard for some people. 22:20 Calinou heh yeah, I had to redo a few screenshots because of mobs or other things in the background, photobombing the screenshot 22:26 Fixer nice https://i.imgur.com/5X1mLI1.png 22:28 Jordach Calinou, what was that arch based OS again 22:30 lisac Going to sleep, good night 22:30 Jordach https://manjaro.org/ found it 22:35 Calinou Jordach: yep 22:35 Calinou going to sleep too, night 22:36 bigfoot547 Bye Calinou 22:50 Jordach i feel like designing my own XFCE4.x theme 22:50 Jordach because all of these are s h i t 23:03 Fixer VanessaE: z-fight https://i.imgur.com/WZ7TK26.png 23:04 bigfoot547 Where? 23:04 bigfoot547 I see no z-fighting? 23:05 Fixer window in upper part 23:05 bigfoot547 Oohhh. I see it now 23:07 Jordach what z-fighting 23:07 Jordach i don't see it 23:08 * Jordach demo's Manjaro in VBox 23:09 Jordach fuck 23:09 sfan5 ｕｓｅ ａｒｃｈ 23:09 Jordach you know i'm tearing all the shit out of this cunt 23:09 Jordach then making it how i want on the real hw 23:11 bigfoot547 sfan5, How are you talking while /away? 23:16 Fixer ＣＹＢＥＲＣＡＲＤＩＯＰＵＮＣＴＵＲＥ 23:16 bigfoot547 ＣＹＢＥＲＣＡＲＤＩＯＰＵＮＣＴＵＲＥ? 23:16 red-001 talking while away 23:17 bigfoot547 Oh. I can do it! Watch. 23:17 bigfoot547 Hi! 23:17 Jordach >not away 23:17 Jordach :thonking: 23:18 Fixer "Incorporeal Visions Deluxe - 詩 Desktop [2:22]" goes very well for exploring good server 23:18 bigfoot547 But I was /away when I typed "Hi!" 23:19 Fixer minetest is doing 23:19 Fixer hi guys 23:19 red-001 inverse 23:20 red-001 oh chatter29 has a twitter 23:21 Fixer minetest has too 23:38 Jordach >tfw the repo at catn.com is 404 23:39 Jordach may have broke things 23:40 Jordach me_irl 23:40 Jordach https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8A6LdPWsAEpcbv.jpg:large