Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-06-02

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 octacian joined #minetest-hub
00:01 bigfoot547 I tried pinging it: 8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7008ms
00:07 bigfoot547 So, it seems to be up...
00:15 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
00:33 rdococ joined #minetest-hub
01:13 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
01:26 lumidify_ joined #minetest-hub
01:59 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
02:02 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub
02:07 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
02:30 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub
02:45 Hijiri DoS attack?
02:53 VanessaE I already reported the performance prob in -staff earlier
02:54 VanessaE (I got even less response than I get from the forum :P )
03:47 TommyTreasure !nore if you're around, our DarkLands hacker is back.  claims to be a 'security team'
03:47 ShadowBot TommyTreasure: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
03:48 TommyTreasure hmmmm
03:57 Wayward_One TommyTreasure, "!tell"
04:06 RichardTheTurd joined #minetest-hub
04:26 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
05:08 TommyTreasure Wayward_One, sometimes my fingers think so much faster than my brain.  ty though
05:38 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
05:49 Hijiri !nore
05:49 Hijiri what does that do
05:49 Hijiri !help nore
05:49 ShadowBot Hijiri: Error: There is no command "nore".
06:29 TommyTreasure Hijiri, it does nothing.  i forgot to add the rest of the command
06:29 TommyTreasure exept you just sent a ping to him
06:35 CWz joined #minetest-hub
06:53 TommyTreasure This is meant as informational, not complaining.  In the past few weeks, DarkLands has been hit with some users claiming to be creating their own version of minetetest client.  They've decided to target me, because of my strict moderator ethics and moral standings.  These people (they claim to be a team of 2).....  continued
06:54 TommyTreasure ... have decided that I'm an abusive admin, and have found ways to fly, fast, teleport, noclip, and kill by chat command.  On D/L, the kill command requires 'server' privs.  here's a link to their threat/warning to me.
06:55 TommyTreasure https://www.hastebin.com/suyinosure.txt
06:56 TommyTreasure They have used multiple VPN or proxies to bypass xban.  On their previous attack, the also flooded the game's irc channel with profanities and threats.
06:56 TommyTreasure
06:56 TommyTreasure Again, just informational.  I can supply a list of some of their playernames if needed.
07:05 Raven262 Any other servers reporting this?
07:06 Raven262 Do they use the same names on other servers too?
07:08 TommyTreasure i really don't know.  i have probably banned one of the little buddies for profanity, and of course, a bad admin is someone who doesn't do things 'their way'.
07:08 Raven262 yea i know
07:08 TommyTreasure that's why i posted this as informational
07:08 Raven262 i'm an admin on craigs server
07:09 Raven262 And people might say that i... well I am a strict admin sometimes
07:09 TommyTreasure last night, they attacked for over an hour, and i ended up banning at least 15 player names, and probably caught a few real players in 'friendly fire'
07:09 TommyTreasure the point is, i'm not the admin, just a moderator
07:09 Raven262 wait, do you have a list of their names?
07:10 Raven262 I'll check if any have logged on craig's server this night.
07:10 TommyTreasure and thankfully, the admin has the trust and respect for me and my actions
07:11 TommyTreasure my post was also to let the dev team know (which i know the probably already do) that this is a serious threat to the minetest game and community
07:12 Raven262 Two "hacker" kids are a threat?
07:12 TommyTreasure when there's only 1 active moderator in the game, and they fill all available player slots, yes
07:13 Raven262 They call themselves "hackers", yet anyone can modify minetest's client
07:13 TommyTreasure and then 'killing off' newplayers randomly...  yup!
07:13 Raven262 killing off=
07:13 Raven262 *?
07:14 Raven262 Like using a command to kill players?
07:14 TommyTreasure exactly, and that command is restricted to server priv
07:14 TommyTreasure so, they've found a way around that.  also, the seem to be able to hide their name tags at will
07:15 TommyTreasure and on this server, that requires moderator privs
07:15 Raven262 privs are a bit unsecure afaik
07:15 Raven262 one can easily modify fly and fast, though i did never try others
07:15 Raven262 *tried
07:15 Raven262 *have tried
07:15 TommyTreasure its been explained to me that they aren't changing their privs, but the client is emulating those privs
07:15 Raven262 heh
07:15 Raven262 emulating?
07:16 Raven262 like going around them
07:16 TommyTreasure fooling the server?  i'm not a coder, so my terminology leaves much to be desired
07:16 Raven262 need devs here
07:16 Raven262 idk much about coding myself
07:16 TommyTreasure that's why it was suggested that i post an informational description here
07:16 Raven262 my brother does, but he is in school right now.
07:17 Raven262 Awaiting for a dev reply then.
07:17 TommyTreasure i don't really even need a reply, but i am available to give more information if needed
07:18 Raven262 Nah, one can not let these guys roaming around.
07:18 Raven262 They have already avoided server priv, so they can easily destroy the server's world
07:18 TommyTreasure from what i understand, there's no way to really stop it, just catch them in the act and deal with them 1 at a time
07:19 Raven262 or
07:19 Raven262 Persuade them to join us.
07:19 TommyTreasure that would take all the excitement out of their teen years <tongue in cheek>
07:20 Raven262 xD
07:20 Raven262 Nah, i doubt they would find hacking alone that much fun.
07:20 Raven262 Cause isn't it more fun when you hack for a community.
07:20 Calinou yes, you can't grant yourself actual fly/fast privileges yourself
07:20 Calinou but you can trick your client into believing you always have them
07:21 TommyTreasure exactly the way it was explained to me!  ty
07:21 Raven262 Well, my brother already did that, not much of a work
07:22 TommyTreasure just my opinion, but that destroys the enjoyment of the game
07:22 Raven262 no really?
07:22 TommyTreasure if a person is the only one in the game that can fly, then yes
07:23 TommyTreasure if a person = if that person
07:23 Raven262 well, flying destroys the gameplay anyway.
07:26 TommyTreasure its fine on a creative server, but defeats the purpose on a survival server
07:27 Raven262 Indeed,đ
07:28 lisac joined #minetest-hub
07:28 Raven262 *indeed
07:28 Raven262 damn keyboard
07:28 Raven262 Hello lisac
07:28 lisac Hello
07:28 Raven262 lisac came to deal with this situation.
07:28 Raven262 I think.
07:28 lisac Raven262 told me someone was modifying MT and changing IPs.
07:29 lisac I can't do anything about it
07:29 lisac but if they did give threats of malicious behavior, maybe someone can report them to their ISPs.
07:29 Raven262 They are changing ips like hell afaik
07:29 Raven262 So how could one get their isp?
07:29 lisac Raven262, ISP knows what IP they assigned to whom.
07:30 lisac and you can check what ISP that IP belongs to
07:30 Raven262 Ah.
07:30 Raven262 Seems doable.
07:30 lisac I'm not sure if it IS possible to report them, though
07:30 lisac maybe ISP simply doesn't care.
07:31 Raven262 heh
07:31 Raven262 Another thing would be, if they are reasonable, mybe we could persuade them to join our cause.
07:31 Raven262 *maybe
07:31 lisac join our cause, Raven262?
07:32 Raven262 MT's cause
07:32 lisac Oh. I thought you where talking about uniting the workers of the world under a red sky
07:32 Raven262 Not under this shadow of capitalism, lisac.
07:33 Raven262 Anyway, those guys said that the work on testing server's protections and stuff.
07:33 TommyTreasure lisac, the ones that attacked d/l on 2 occasions, were using vpn's or proxies
07:34 TommyTreasure lisac, did you check the link i posted.  their warning/threat to me
07:34 lisac Um... what link?
07:34 Raven262 yes he did
07:34 Raven262 i showed him.
07:34 TommyTreasure https://www.hastebin.com/suyinosure.txt
07:34 lisac I did not read it whole, Raven262.
07:36 lisac TommyTreasure, You could override anti cheat function to ban everyone on the slightest doubt of cheating.
07:36 lisac or better, require users to add an email to their account to get shout and interact
07:36 Calinou the default anticheat has way too many false positives
07:36 TommyTreasure i'm sure the admin has taken all security precautions.  i'm only a moderator
07:36 Calinou some lag? bam, "moved too fast"
07:36 Calinou most admins end up disabling anticheat entirely due to this
07:36 lisac I hope they don't attack Craig's.
07:37 Raven262 Yes, Calinou is right, i got banned many times cause of lag.
07:37 Raven262 That was some time ago though.
07:37 Raven262 I don't know if anyone still uses this anticheat system.
07:38 lisac what server is this on, anyways?
07:38 TommyTreasure Shara's DarkLands
07:38 TommyTreasure so i have complete confidence she knows what she's doing
07:39 lisac hm, I never saw that server.
07:39 lisac does it have an IRC channel?
07:39 TommyTreasure yes
07:39 lisac is it public?
07:40 TommyTreasure sort of, i'll pm the channel to you
07:40 lisac okay :)
07:41 TommyTreasure my paranoia at the moment says i shouldn't paste the channel name here...  at least not yet
07:41 lisac lol, If they try this on freenode, they WILL get banned.
07:41 lisac i think so, at least
07:43 Shara Not here for long, but as a note - we don't know they are getting access to server priv.
07:43 TommyTreasure i'm not in the game, so i don't know what was done
07:43 lisac Shara, What did they do?
07:43 Shara I've never been around when it happened, so I don't know much
07:44 TommyTreasure well, last time they were killing players at totally different parts of the map within a second of each other.  even teleport couldn't allow them to travel and kill that quickly
07:44 TommyTreasure and instantaneously too
07:45 TommyTreasure 1 hit doesn't kill a player with crystal armor with game available weapons
07:47 Calinou malformed packets to hit players from far away/in rapid succession?
07:48 TommyTreasure not my area of knowledge
07:50 TommyTreasure apparently, i've po'd one of their buddies with a ban that was probably well overdue, and its there way to get me fired.
07:51 TommyTreasure << too crotchety to bow out.  lol
07:51 TommyTreasure their*
08:12 red-001 joined #minetest-hub
08:20 CWz Calinou, how could they do that with malformed packets, it impossible to interact with entities from too far away
08:20 CWz right?
08:23 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
08:24 CWz TommyTreasure, player_transfer_distance = 20 or something could perhaps fix issue of them killing other players. doing this should make it so their hacked client can't see most of the players
08:26 TommyTreasure CWz, i've used that on my own server, but this conversation is about a server that i'm only a moderator, not the admin
08:31 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
08:37 TommyTreasure CWz, i just tried player_transfer_distance = 4 on my test server.  was able to kill from 8K away via chat command
08:38 TommyTreasure understood that the player could not see the player, but knowing the player's name was good enough to find for a kill
08:38 CWz hmmm using csm
08:38 CWz ?
08:39 TommyTreasure via /kill playername
08:40 TommyTreasure server is .15-dev mid march, client is .15-stable
08:41 TommyTreasure i don't have the irc mod connected, so i cant tell if its possible via irc command
08:41 TommyTreasure i'm assuming it will work though
08:41 TommyTreasure my setup only required ban privs to use the kill command
08:42 TommyTreasure requires*
08:47 Raven262 The question is can this even be done via csm
08:58 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
09:15 TommyTreasure Raven262, yet another question.  is this possible by entering commands from the game, through the irc_chat mod?
09:19 calculon joined #minetest-hub
09:20 shivajiva it's possible but unlikely as the irc mod requires the player to have his password set using the older method first before they can login via irc and issue commands, a search of the auth file for short lines will reveal which players have the ability to use irc commands
09:25 shivajiva they would also have to grant privs to the player account to use them via irc afaik
09:25 Raven262 how about csm? COuld it be that they used minetest's latest feature for this?
09:27 shivajiva wonder if we have any examples of the problems on 0.4.13 servers
09:28 shivajiva I certainly had issues back then but WE gui was exploitable...
09:30 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
09:34 TommyTreasure shivajiva, do you recall when the fix for WE was done?  my version was updated on 5/12/2017
09:36 TommyTreasure think i just answered my own question.  i'm current with we_gui, and behind with we_commands
09:46 red-001 TommyTreasure, would it be possible to get more info on the client?
09:46 red-001 like could you check the version string, etc
09:47 red-001 Would it be possible they gained access during the worldedit_gui incident and are just abusing it now?
09:49 TommyTreasure red-001, i'm sorry i've confused the issue.  my WE question is in regards to my test server. not public, and not quite ready for prime time.
09:52 red-001 well I see you have worldedit_gui installed
09:52 red-001 I assume it patched correct?
09:52 red-001 it's
09:54 TommyTreasure red-001, darklands is not my server, its shara's server.  i'm just a moderator there
09:55 red-001 well noclip,fly,fast are the default minetest hacking package
09:56 TommyTreasure and like i've said before, i trust that shara is totally up to date on anything security related
09:56 Calinou I think server-side noclip enforcement was added recently?
09:56 red-001 Calinou, nope, est31 was working on it
09:56 TommyTreasure i think the server package was updated yesterday, london time.
09:56 red-001 but it never got merged
09:57 red-001 what did get added is server-sided node damage and drowning
09:57 Calinou right
09:57 red-001 like I said before the best short term soloution would be to try and ban them via version string
09:58 TommyTreasure wouldn't that take out the majority of mobile client apps as well?
09:59 Calinou version string can easily be faked
09:59 Calinou so, that won't fix it
09:59 Calinou it's just like eg. Web browsers
09:59 TommyTreasure that was my guess too
10:02 red-001 thats why I said short term
10:02 TommyTreasure i would really hate to admit defeat, but if my presence at d/l is going to cause this much problem, my only other alternative would be to surrender my nick and create another
10:03 red-001 they could pretend to be a release build
10:03 red-001 but then you could detect a version string/protocol mismatch
10:04 red-001 also please don't use hastebin.com, the UI is horrible
10:05 TommyTreasure that wasn't my post, was the link the 'team' left for me
10:06 red-001 well tell them thier pastebin is shit
10:06 TommyTreasure that was my first impression too.  lol
10:06 Calinou works fine for me
10:06 Calinou hastebin.com is very simple, you write something, you Ctrl+S and it's pasted
10:06 red-001 good damn it hackers at least use a decent pastebin
10:06 Calinou if you want to change the syntax highlighting, change the language in the URL
10:06 Calinou it's far better than pastebin.com
10:07 red-001 Calinou, it's horrbile on lower resolutions
10:07 red-001 the god damn logo obscures the text
10:08 Calinou get a decent screen resolution then :P
10:08 red-001 compear that to this https://paste.ee/p/uTVUP#ShQN​t9HTqmyloOQcGX7NthGdpGsBpJTO
10:08 red-001 it even encrpts their blackmail then
10:08 Calinou paste.ee seems to be nice, I discovered it a few days ago
10:09 red-001 https://paste.ee/p/uTVUP
10:09 Calinou "badmins"
10:09 Calinou time to get a "Badministrator" title...
10:09 red-001 I discovered it a few seconds ago
10:09 red-001 Banministrator
10:09 red-001 Banmins
10:11 TommyTreasure you guys are gonna make me more famous than ron jeremy
10:21 lisac hey, how would you pass a key currently pressed to the clientside modding?
10:21 lisac or rather, how would you check what keys are currently pressed?
10:21 lisac not if they are, but which are.
10:22 red-001 no way as of right now
10:22 lisac red-001, yeah, but how would one implement that feature?
10:23 lisac I did get my press key-exec chat command stuff to work
10:25 red-001 well there is a bunch of ways to do this
10:25 * lisac is going to try doing it, obviously.
10:25 red-001 you could allow CSM mods to register callbacks for certain key-presses
10:26 lisac I don't think that would be a very 'clean' solution
10:26 lisac maybe a minetest.register_on_keypress(key_id)?
10:26 red-001 it would be cleaner then running a callback on every keypress
10:26 lisac or something like that?
10:26 red-001 that would just be a waste of resources
10:27 lisac hm
10:27 lisac no idea really
10:27 red-001 minetest.register_on_keypress(key_id/keymap,func)
10:27 lisac ^yeah
10:27 red-001 that way you can check without entering lua if you need to run a callback
10:28 lisac and then have some sort of an array with defined keys and functions, over which you loop in the input manager?
10:28 red-001 switching between lua and c++ takes a good bit of time
10:28 red-001 I suggest reusing existing code if you can
10:29 red-001 so create a lua callback table for each keypress id
10:30 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
10:30 red-001 and add code to the function that registers keypress events that would tell the c++ that a certain table in no-longer empty
10:30 lisac this might be 'a bit' over my abilities
10:30 lisac :D
10:31 red-001 well it is a hard thing to do correctly
10:31 lisac I'll keep you posted on my progress.
10:31 * lisac makes a new git branch
10:31 red-001 thats why it's not implemented yet
10:32 red-001 in your place I would go for low hanging fruit like correct media loading
10:32 lisac correct media loading? :)
10:33 red-001 yes CSM doesn't load textures and sounds
10:33 lisac should it?
10:33 red-001 so for textures you have to use the hacky workaround of a texturepack and for sounds there is nothing you can do
10:34 red-001 or even implement the HUD
10:34 red-001 huh I might work on the hud
10:35 red-001 plus I think I though of a nicer way to implement my particles PR
10:35 lisac red-001, What about this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5874
10:35 lisac also, maybe client side mods should be able to add particles
10:35 lisac for actual rain! :P
10:37 red-001 I was literaly just talking about csm particles lol
10:38 lisac oh lol
10:38 red-001 as for that issue, it's not really a priority
10:38 red-001 it's just barely and issue
10:38 red-001 an*
10:40 lisac yeah, but it is easy to fix. :P
10:40 red-001 well it should also check for other invaild vaules if this is to be added
10:40 red-001 like negative numbers
10:40 lisac wow... param:match("([^ ][-]?[0-9]+)([^ ]+)(.*)")
10:41 red-001 well come to the werid and wonderful world of lua regex
10:41 red-001 welcome*
10:43 lisac I heard some people not only can understand this, but can also WRITE it!
10:43 lisac foot would encourage me to figure what it does
10:44 red-001 https://www.lua.org/pil/20.2.html
10:45 red-001 now why did they use [0-9] instead of %d
10:45 Darcidride Hi everyone
10:45 red-001 hi Darcidride
10:45 lisac red-001, It looks more sci-fi
10:46 lisac Hi Darcidride
10:56 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
10:59 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:14 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
11:20 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
11:35 RichardTheTurd joined #minetest-hub
12:25 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
12:26 NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub
13:09 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/nGb8Yqb.jpg
13:36 shivajiva hmm perhaps we should censor the server list... F*** Minetest seems a bit of a strange name for a server...
13:36 nerzhul shivajiva, i reported it yesterday
13:37 shivajiva :)
13:37 nerzhul but sfan5 told we don't have any rule
13:37 shivajiva then we should have
13:38 shivajiva freedom to protect minors overrules freedom to express, surely
13:38 nerzhul it's the last days before release
13:39 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
13:39 red-001 I mean what do we even have the ban function in the serverlist for if you are not going to use it
13:39 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
13:42 Calinou shivajiva: IMO, this is not about "protecting minors", just about basic decency
13:42 Calinou I think such server names shouldn't be allowed, still
13:42 Calinou it's already possible to ban them, but someone needs to do it
13:46 shivajiva basic decency isn't a priority around here, plenty of examples of people swearing instead of expressing themselves nicely so it goes with the territory but to allow it to be pushed on kids is very wrong imo
13:52 CWz what server is offending this time?
13:52 octacian joined #minetest-hub
13:53 shivajiva somebody needs to make a decision about the rules for server names broadcast, before a parent jumps on this and reports it
13:53 shivajiva the server is FUCK Minetest
13:58 benrob0329 ^^
13:59 nerzhul yes, i think some names should be refused by server list, just look at common shit words
13:59 benrob0329 No swearing, I'd say
13:59 nerzhul i think i will rename AppleTree to Fucking good Apple in your ass if it's not allowed *joke*
14:01 benrob0329 Do we have a way to send messages to a server?
14:02 benrob0329 Like, "your server name contains inappropriate language, it will not be shown in the server list"
14:04 nerzhul benrob0329, no
14:05 red-001 we could use an error code for it
14:07 Calinou there is no mandatory "contact" field, so no
14:08 LazyJ joined #minetest-hub
14:17 red-001 I think minetest prints the whatever the server returns to the console
14:17 red-001 so it should be possible
14:19 TommyTreasure ok, here i go again!  why is everyone looking in a programming solution for this instead of a bit of server side includes on the web site.  a simple registration and validation page to compare server name with registered server name?
14:20 DS-minetest TommyTreasure: what are you writing about?
14:20 TommyTreasure seriously, is a few hours of manual labor not worth the benefit from this kind of garbage being displayed to our kids?
14:21 TommyTreasure the profane m/t server names
14:21 DS-minetest for csm to differ servers
14:21 DS-minetest ?
14:22 TommyTreasure isn't the only one the game uses for display at servers.minetest.net?  if not, i'll stand corrected.
14:22 TommyTreasure if the admins configure for a different announce server, they not our problem, no?
14:24 DS-minetest I've suggested something about that i think
14:24 DS-minetest that the server saves to each player a number and the player saves the highest number and co.
14:25 DS-minetest and for the player every server has a different number but the server gives the players different numbers
14:28 octacian Is it practical to make an item entity entity with collision that will do things like fall off an edge if less than half of it is on a solid node?
14:29 TommyTreasure seems to me that a very simple php page, with a small data file would be able to check a server name against the registered server name, and reject the display of a mismatch fairly easily
14:34 red-001 ?
14:37 TommyTreasure red-001, only me sticking my foot in my mouth again.  i'm terribly sorry to everyone
14:40 TommyTreasure but, before i leave this channel, i'd like to give a brief history of me and minetest.  i got involved because i thought it would be a much more wholesome platform for children.  since then, my actions as a moderator banning for profane language on a friend's server has caused (imho) severe problems for that server.....
14:41 TommyTreasure i think i should just back out of minetest completely and find another venue for my efforts
14:41 red-001 huh
14:43 TommyTreasure i'm just totally frustrated and the inconsiderate players, and self appointed 'admin cops' that have terrorized shara's darklands game.  i feel my wholesome and ethical nature have caused her problems, and now after seeing the display of profane server names..  well, its enough for me to want to find something different for my kids, and the kids of my friends
14:44 red-001 honestly the whole thing with this server is kinda ridiculus
14:44 TommyTreasure thank you for letting me rant.  i'll sit on the sidelines for a while and keep my mouth shut.  :)
14:44 red-001 if you are not planning to use the ban feature then why include it?
14:45 TommyTreasure its not my server!
14:45 TommyTreasure i'm only a moderator
14:45 TommyTreasure sorry red-001, didn't mean for it to sound sarcastic
14:47 TommyTreasure but i feel that my actions in trying to keep out profane language is the cause of the current attacks at her server.  and like i said, the current profane server names just got my goat big time!
15:03 kaeza joined #minetest-hub
15:03 kaeza hi tenplus1
15:10 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
15:12 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
15:36 Fixer first, do minetest server list is even has some guidelines?
15:37 corvus_ joined #minetest-hub
15:47 TommyTreasure for crying out loud people, does anyone have the authority here to put a temporary iptables rule on servers host to block that listing?
15:47 red-001 we can even ban ports
15:47 red-001 iirc
15:47 TommyTreasure the announce list!!!!!  please guys, there's kids at school looking at that
15:48 red-001 sfan5> why do we care
15:48 TommyTreasure its obvious you don't care about anything except your own egos.  i'm outta here, i'm outta minetest, and i'm going home to keep my kids out of minetest too.
15:49 TommyTreasure left #minetest-hub
15:50 red-001 well thats disapointing
15:52 sfan5 lol ok
15:53 sfan5 i assumed that mransom would deal with this
15:53 red-001 as would I but it seems they are rarely online
15:53 shivajiva in the meantime lots of children are being exposed to it...
15:54 shivajiva if you can take it off the list I suggest you do asap
15:54 shivajiva instead of the apathy of who cares
15:55 red-001 I think minetesthosting ports are somewhat static
15:58 sfan5 should be gone within 5 mins
15:58 sfan5 people can stop complaining now
15:59 shivajiva tada! So simple yet so hard to get something done
16:00 sfan5 really liking that sarcasm right there
16:02 shivajiva TommyTreasure had to quit, he's a parent and a grandparent and you don't want to listen to his logic, how should I react to the apathy?
16:04 sfan5 what?
16:04 sfan5 I wasn't even here when he raised his complaints
16:05 red-001 !nore
16:05 red-001 huh
16:06 shivajiva I'm not targeting you specifically sfan5, just the lack of prompt action
16:06 shivajiva this was brought to attention yesterday apparently
16:07 nore red-001: uh?
16:07 red-001 oh it's just that it seemed ShadowBot responded to that last time
16:07 nore ...
16:08 red-001 http://irc.minetest.net/minet​est-hub/2017-06-02#i_4953882
16:13 benrob0329 That escalated quickly
16:18 * stormchaser3000 hopes there isn't going to be a cyber war in the minetest community
16:19 red-001 yeah we are recovering from one right now
16:26 red-001 anyway no need to use [off]
16:26 red-001 why would a hacker want to read these logs?
16:27 red-001 I mean they don't even have any way to respond
16:30 benrob0329 Any doctor who fans who are good at building?
16:30 benrob0329 I need a new vanilla interior for my tardis mod
16:31 benrob0329 Also, does anyone have a better way of setting meta than relative coordinates?
16:44 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:48 Amaz joined #minetest-hub
16:54 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
17:08 Sokomine setting meta?
17:17 Shara Hi all.
17:18 red-001 hu Shara
17:18 red-001 hi*
17:18 Shara I see that I arrive home to find I probaby lost DL's last active admin.
17:18 red-001 seems so
17:19 Shara I['ll talk to him, but I understand his anger.
17:19 CWz Shara, DL?
17:19 Shara My DarkLands server.
17:19 CWz losing admins?
17:19 Shara It's been getting attacked on a regulkar basis for the last few weeks now.
17:19 Shara regular*
17:19 CWz by some script kiddie?
17:19 Shara Zeno has practically vanished, now Tommy says he's quitting MT.
17:20 CWz Why'd Zeno vanish
17:20 Shara Don't know.
17:20 benrob0329 I don't know how someone could hate MT so much so as to try to tare the community apart
17:21 benrob0329 It really is quite sad
17:23 CWz Who is it
17:25 garywhite I don't think we know
17:26 Shara I am very glad that server got removed from the list though.
17:27 paramat any way to whitelist and restart access to DL?
17:27 paramat me too
17:27 Shara paramat: I have exams this week, so barely any time. Thinking about options for what to do.
17:27 Shara The reality is that I can't run it long term without at least a semi-active co-admin there.
17:28 Shara At least not without it turning into some kind of anarchy server, which I don't want.
17:29 paramat ok
17:30 Shara Maybe either Zeno or Tommy will come back.
17:30 Shara It's just the worst time for me to find both of them gone.
17:30 garywhite One thing that we tried before on LS-U was we just started kicking the bot nicks as soon as we saw them (but that only works if the hackers are using bot nicks
17:30 Shara They're not bots, gary.
17:31 ssieb joined #minetest-hub
17:31 garywhite But if they use the Name### type nick, then you could probably just make a bot to kick those users on login
17:31 Shara Those are just app users.
17:32 Raven262 Sure, get me kicked that way :P
17:32 red-001 or me
17:32 Shara just app users or Raven or red*
17:33 Shara or possibly benrob0329 :)
17:34 paramat i suggest closing it for a week for one less worry/distraction and thinking about it in a week's time :]
17:35 red-001 or sniper57O, stormchaser300O
17:35 Shara paramat: better option is to temp close borders Xanadu style, if needed
17:36 garywhite We are going to build a wall
17:36 Shara It's a very busy server that often hits the player cap. I don't want to close it.
17:37 paramat so limit it to known good players? yeah
17:38 Shara Just anyone who already has an account. Prevent new ones only.
17:38 Shara I don't even like doing that, but it should keep the server safe until I have a bit more time
17:39 benrob0329 My in game username is benrob03 for a reason :-)
17:41 garywhite What I don't understand is, why would someone want to attack a server like DL? There are even more crowded servers that they could attack e.g. attacking SwitchPVP could take down about 10 servers
17:42 paramat heh because some people are just like that
17:42 red-001 hey trolls gota troll
17:43 red-001 maybe they have a personal vendetta agiast the server
17:44 garywhite Happy National Doughnut Day
17:45 Shara !!!
17:45 Shara And I don't have any!!'
17:45 garywhite I just read it on local news, of all places
17:45 red-001 lol
17:45 red-001 slow news day?
17:46 garywhite I guess so, aside from another United plane that caught fire
17:49 Krock joined #minetest-hub
17:49 Krock joined #minetest-hub
17:49 Krock hi imaginary tenplus1
17:49 Shara Hi Krock
17:50 Krock hi Shara
17:50 Fuchs oh, look, another Swissisen
17:51 Fuchs Krock: you might want to auto-identify via SASL so we don't get 3 lines of you on join, two containing your IP  (not that cloaks hide them, but it's still somewhat meh)
17:51 * Krock looks up "SASL"
17:52 red-001 hello Krock
17:52 * red-001 was faster then 11 for once
17:53 Fuchs https://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl
17:53 Fuchs this thing
17:53 Krock oh well, not sure if Nettalk supports that
17:53 Krock scripting is quite poor
17:53 Fuchs probably not, but I'd consider not using a client not updated in 5 years. But: to each their own :)
17:53 Fuchs an alternative is to use   YourNick:YourPassword   as server password. Not as good, but should work in most cases
17:54 Krock is that a freenode only thing or will it work on other servers too?
17:54 Fuchs some of the others
17:54 Fuchs it's a standard
17:54 Krock oh cool. thanks :)
17:55 Fuchs oh, wait, SASL, not the password thing
17:55 Fuchs the password thing is probably quite exclusive to us
17:55 Krock hmm.. let's see if this helpef
17:55 Krock *helped
17:56 Krock joined #minetest-hub
17:56 Fuchs better :)
17:56 Krock heh, thanks a lot. The server password thingy did it
17:56 Fuchs welcome
17:56 Krock didn't know this was possible here
17:57 Fuchs I'm not sure whether we documented it anywere as SASL or CertFP are prefered
17:57 red-001 sasl protects your password right?
17:58 Fuchs no, SASL is just a different way of authenticating. Both will send it as plain text so you should use SSL
17:58 Fuchs (which, despite the name, is completely unrelated to SASL)
17:58 Fuchs SASL authenticates during connect, thus before any autojoins, which has benefits (not showing your IP right away, not annoying channels with 3 lines, possible to autojoin channels that require you to be authed)
17:59 Fuchs server password should do that, but we can't guarantee it
18:00 benrob0329 Krock: Weechat FTW
18:01 Krock benrob0329, will switch to Linux in a few weeks anyway. This will allow me to use a recent hexchat version or any other cool client from that universe
18:01 Fuchs my guess is that he uses Windows, so that will be tricky
18:01 Fuchs Hexchat is available for Windows too, but: sure, do switch :)
18:01 Fuchs also Hexchat (or most other clients you can choose from) will support SASL, so do set that up (we have manuals, link above) once you can :)
18:01 benrob0329 Weechat runs on Windows, you just might want to get a better terminal emulator than cmd.exe :P
18:02 Krock Well, they dropped the support for Win XP long time ago and I'm not willing to upgrade Windows. The support for 7 will not last for long, so better going to Linux
18:02 Krock (speaking of Hexchat)
18:02 benrob0329 You still use XP?
18:03 Raven262 XP was the best.
18:03 Raven262 Then 7
18:03 Krock sure. I already had this same OS on three different mainboards
18:03 Krock best Windows of all time IMO
18:03 benrob0329 Slow windows of current time
18:03 Raven262 I remember using xp until few years ago
18:03 Raven262 I didn't have to reinstall it every 2 months
18:04 * Fuchs cries a little
18:04 * Krock wonders why
18:04 benrob0329 Raven262: what do you have to reinstall every couple months?
18:04 * red-001 dies a little inside
18:05 benrob0329 Also, WinXP being the best says a lot about windows as a whole :-)
18:05 Raven262 Cause windows somehow gets laggy as hell
18:05 benrob0329 Somehow == Cause its Windows
18:05 Raven262 True
18:05 Amaz Best of a bad lot :P
18:05 Raven262 Cuase its windows
18:05 Raven262 *cause
18:05 Raven262 But well i'm now on linux anyway
18:05 Fuchs Krock: because you use heavily outdated software with no security updates :(
18:06 benrob0329 I mean, it lacks a self cleaning tmpfs and logging filesystem
18:06 red-001 windows- works most of the time, but you are on your own when it breaks
18:06 benrob0329 If you move hard disks, pray for God to have mercy
18:07 Krock Fuchs, I could do the Posready hack to fix that one :P
18:07 red-001 linux- works some of the time, and you only need to wait through a few hours of "Just read the docs" and "it's pretty simple" to find someone that knows how to fix it
18:07 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:07 Fuchs I recently updated my Windows 7 to Windows 10, because a staff colleague recommended that after me complaining a lot  (I rarely boot windows, it was to play a game with a friend)
18:07 benrob0329 red-001: until you learn how to read the docs, and then find that you don't have to ask anymore
18:08 lisac joined #minetest-hub
18:08 Krock Fuchs, hint: https://github.com/Nummer/​Destroy-Windows-10-Spying
18:08 Fuchs that was not so funny, because it failed due to various reasons (had to open the laptop and remove the second ssd), then in the end it only worked from an optical disk and with delayed updates
18:08 Fuchs Krock: obviously already all deactivated, but thanks :)
18:08 Krock good :)
18:08 Amaz Also red, I find that linux only tends to break if you do something to break it ;)
18:09 benrob0329 But if you were like me when I first started using Linux, you WILL break it
18:09 benrob0329 Because you'll get just enough knowledge to be dangerous
18:09 lisac Amaz, I completely agree.
18:09 Amaz I don't think I've ever had an issue with it that I've not caused :P
18:09 Amaz But I've had plenty of problems that I have caused though ;)
18:09 lisac benrob0329, 'sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /*'
18:10 red-001 honestly you can do a lot of intersting things with windows too if you do your research
18:10 benrob0329 lisac: never done that, but I have messed up with dd before
18:10 red-001 e.g. alternate shells etc
18:10 lisac red-001, For the short time I had windows installed on my PC, I had to install bash to it.
18:10 benrob0329 But its not made to do that
18:11 Fuchs bah, when I started with Linux (more than 15 year ago, heh) rm -rf on root worked without that stupid --no-preserve switch
18:11 CWz the reason windows slows down after being installed for too long is... recourse it an American product and something to do with how windows prints data to the disks
18:11 CWz i think...
18:11 garywhite Or too much HDD space taken up...
18:12 red-001 huh they even added a shell lancher
18:12 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:13 paramat ~tell TommyTreasure sorry about sfan5's comments, most of us do care and that server has been removed now, do come back! :]
18:13 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
18:13 red-001 paramat, I already told him
18:13 Shara paramat: I'm talking to him now.
18:13 Shara But I think he'll appreciate that as well :)
18:13 benrob0329 Who would have thought though, that I would go from uninstalling Python2 on Linux Mint (hint: don't do that) to compiling my own kernel with a fully modular system
18:14 benrob0329 In just a few years
18:14 red-001 bbl breaking my windows install
18:14 Fuchs benrob0329: I use gentoo, removing python there is slightly more desasterous, because the package manager needs it
18:17 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:17 benrob0329 Fuchs: as do I, and that would be...an interesting experiment to do in a vm :P
18:17 Fuchs benrob0329: it's fixable, but it's a pain
18:18 Fuchs you can download a working image of portage/python and use that to re-emerge python
18:21 benrob0329 Fuchs: just a stab in the dark, but I get the feeling that unpacking a modified stage3 tarball might do it too
18:22 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:25 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:27 Fuchs well yes, but that will overwrite other stuff
18:27 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:29 benrob0329 Fuchs: thus the modified part
18:29 benrob0329 But if there is a tarball with just Python + portage that would be better in such a case
18:31 TommyTreasure joined #minetest-hub
18:31 Shara Welcome back TommyTreasure :)
18:32 TommyTreasure ty Shara, especially for your warm comments
18:32 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:32 Shara Not a problem. Glad to have you here.
18:34 paramat \O/
18:37 garywhite Yay!
18:47 TommyTreasure ty paramat.  no apologies necessary.  :)
18:52 red-001 good to see you again TommyTreasure
18:52 TommyTreasure ty red-001
18:53 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
18:55 garywhite wb TommyTreasure
18:55 TommyTreasure ty garywhite
19:04 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
19:05 benrob0329 TommyTreasure: #MakeMinetestGreatAgain :PP
19:05 benrob0329 (Welcome Back)
19:05 RobbieF left #minetest-hub
19:05 TommyTreasure ty benrob0329
19:07 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
19:07 Shara There. Now only accounts that already exist can connect to DL.
19:07 Shara I'll worry about finding a better answer next week. :)
19:08 benrob0329 central auth :P
19:08 lisac joined #minetest-hub
19:09 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
19:10 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
19:14 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
19:14 tenplus1 hi folks
19:15 stormchaser3000 hi tenplus1
19:15 Amaz Hi ten :)
19:15 Krock hi tenplus1
19:16 tenplus1 hi storm, amaz, krock :)
19:16 tenplus1 how's all today ?:P
19:16 lisac Hi tenplus1
19:16 tenplus1 hi lisac
19:16 Krock fine, thanks. Finally weekend
19:16 lisac WEEKEND!
19:16 tenplus1 :PP
19:16 stormchaser3000 today has been a bit interesting...
19:16 tenplus1 what happened ?
19:16 * tenplus1 is working weekend... buuu
19:17 stormchaser3000 tenplus1, someone had a server with an inappropriate name on the server list. but the server was taken down
19:18 tenplus1 ooh err, we cant be having names like that on lists that kiddy's see
19:19 lisac yesterday a power line went down in Serbia; we didn't have electricity in two major towns for 12 hours.
19:19 tenplus1 damn, hope you had a generator
19:19 lisac We did, but we didn't have the need to turn it on
19:19 lisac it was day during the power loss
19:19 lisac but there where crowds on the street looking for an open store lol :D
19:20 tenplus1 handy :P
19:20 tenplus1 if all else fails, find somwehere you can be comfortable
19:21 Shara Hi Ten
19:21 tenplus1 hi shara :)
19:22 Shara Interesting on my side too.
19:22 Shara DL is getting hit by idiots, so had to stop new accounts :P
19:22 tenplus1 it's handy to have a border just incase it's needed
19:23 tenplus1 was the server in question run by a certain person who shall not be named ?
19:23 Shara Don't know.
19:26 stormchaser3000 i wonder if i should make all my servers whitelisted
19:30 garywhite Hi ten
19:31 tenplus1 hi gary
19:31 red-001 tenplus1, we can't confirm or diene
19:31 red-001 it was a minetesthosting server
19:32 tenplus1 hi red....
19:32 red-001 hi tenplus1
19:33 Jordach :thinking:
19:34 tenplus1 hi Jordach
19:34 * Jordach loves the clicky-ness of this keyboarc
19:34 Jordach i'm also incapable of spelling anything correctly
19:34 red-001 Shara, is anticheat enabled on darklands
19:34 red-001 8?
19:34 red-001 *?
19:34 Shara Should be
19:35 Shara I'd have to check, as someone else might have changed it
19:35 Jordach >changed it
19:35 Jordach <play of the game>
19:35 Shara Meow, Jordach
19:39 benrob0329 hi tenplus1
19:39 tenplus1 hi benrob :p
19:40 benrob0329 i feel like i should do something productive, but im quite tierd
19:41 tenplus1 lol, I hear ya... suppose to rewrite the protector.drop function in protection mod, but cant be assed
19:41 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
19:42 paramat tenplus1 might be of interest https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5885
19:42 tenplus1 hi paramat and thanks... reading
19:42 tenplus1 hi Jordach
19:43 tenplus1 ooh, so is it a flag you set for height level to make a new layer ?
19:44 tenplus1 lagg is killing this feature: https://github.com/tenplus1/prot​ector/blob/master/init.lua#L312
19:44 tenplus1 seems the greater the lag, the more chance of spawning double items
19:46 paramat well remmeber 'biomes' is just stuff added to stone terrain generated by a mapgen. if a mapgen creates levels this PR allows the set of biomes to be repeated
19:46 paramat *remember
19:46 tenplus1 sweeeeeeeet, this is what we need to make layered realms :))
19:46 tenplus1 mundo appreciation paramat
19:47 tenplus1 hows it work ?
19:47 paramat well, if you want the same set of biomes on each level, often you may not
19:48 tenplus1 I mean, how do you create a new level ?
19:49 paramat new stone terrain level or new biome level?
19:49 tenplus1 new stone terrain...
19:50 tenplus1 if I wanted a new level at 1000 high what would I do to add this /
19:50 paramat i'm experimenting with a new core mapgen now in a branch that does this
19:51 tenplus1 it would be easy enough to add biomes for each level, just the initial level I wanna know how to add
19:51 paramat you just set the number of levels in a parameter and the vertical height is auto-divided into realms
19:52 tenplus1 ahh, so no set variable to add a base/stone realm at a set height... just a total number
19:53 paramat yeah, but a mapgen could be coded that works with API-registered levels
19:54 tenplus1 sweet... I look forward to seeing this
19:54 tenplus1 realms/layers is something we sorely need
19:56 paramat i'm working on various ways to do this
19:56 Fixer .
19:56 Fixer test
19:57 tenplus1 hi fixer
19:57 Fixer github problems again
19:57 Fixer hi
19:58 tenplus1 what happened to forums last night, was uber slow logging on ?
19:58 paramat MT forums are often very slow i find, sometimes unavailable
19:58 tenplus1 :(
19:59 paramat c55 has said bandwidth seems to get 'throttled' sometimes
20:06 tenplus1 Protector Redo's 'protector.drop' feature has been removed, can easily be exploited using lag
20:09 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
20:09 tenplus1 hi bigfoot
20:09 bigfoot547 Hey tenplus1
20:11 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
20:21 lisac_ joined #minetest-hub
20:21 corvus_ joined #minetest-hub
20:30 Fixer decided to search through my 1gb mod folder for that take/move/put metadata thing
20:31 benrob0329 we need custom loading screens
20:31 benrob0329 for servers/subgames
20:31 benrob0329 Gmod has them, and they look amazing
20:31 bigfoot547 +1
20:34 Fixer +1
20:35 tenplus1 nite folks
20:35 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:48 Fixer benrob0329: great idea, write a feature request on github
20:48 benrob0329 Fixer: i shall, but not right this sec
21:04 Fixer CYBERSCANIA
21:05 Fixer CYBERSCANDINAVIAN ^^
21:06 bigfoot547 ⓣⓐⓛⓚ ⓘⓝ ⓒⓘⓡⓒⓛⓔⓢ!
21:07 CWz Goodnight everyone one
21:27 octacian_ joined #minetest-hub
21:27 Fixer rubenwardy: you here?
21:29 red-001 [rubenwardy] idle 00:54:37
21:29 red-001 maybe
21:30 Fixer "Welcome to 2017, getting 64kbps on 4G LTE network is completely normal."
21:30 Fixer this is not normal
21:35 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
21:37 Nathans21 joined #minetest-hub
21:41 Sokomine Fixer: if you've used up the small amount that comes with the contract, it's completely normal. at least in germany. we're wary backwards in that direction. might even be much slower
21:44 garywhite Fixer: At least you have 4G LTE data, my cell plan has 0 data & only 30 minutes or 30 texts
21:51 bigfoot547 I don't own a cell phone!
21:53 Shara I don't own a smart phone at least... just a really ancient thing :)
21:53 bigfoot547 I have 1 home phone.
21:54 Shara Most people think I am crazy for not wanting one.
21:54 rubenwardy Fixer, am now
21:55 kaeza are you rubenwardy, or are you now?
22:02 Wayward_One no, now was just here
22:02 Wayward_One but now is no longer here
22:03 Wayward_One totally unrelated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Yw24gzwT0&amp;li​st=PLC9BOvKKcAJ_InlP7OVU8H-T1ZtYVJ7P4&amp;index=9
22:03 Wayward_One !title
22:03 ShadowBot Wayward_One: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
22:03 Wayward_One meh
22:04 Wayward_One ^ Sevendust- Here And Now :3
22:07 * VanessaE pokes Shara
22:08 VanessaE actually nevermind
22:08 * VanessaE withdraws the poke
22:15 VanessaE Shara: I got éclairs :)  and here's the photo I mentioned, of the place http://imgur.com/V4qx0UP
22:17 garywhite If that were in California, there would be a sign saying "Warning: This store contains products known to the State to cause cancer, birth defects, & other reproductive harm."
22:18 VanessaE heh
22:18 VanessaE they'd probably put that on bottled water, too
22:19 paramat joined #minetest-hub
22:19 nore garywhite: so true, I see those signs everywhere here
22:20 garywhite nore: Do you live in California, or are we not the only ones who have it
22:21 nore garywhite: I'm just in California currently, I do not live here however
22:21 nore and I was quite surprised by those signs :)
22:21 garywhite Yeah, we were saying earlier that it seems the only thing that doesn't have it is the air
22:32 benrob0329-latop joined #minetest-hub
22:33 VanessaE bbl
22:40 paramat joined #minetest-hub
22:41 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
22:48 kaeza joined #minetest-hub
22:49 IhrFussel I have a question: Is there ACTUALLY ANY evidence that "angelo1123_" attacked a certain darklands server with some modified client?? To me it sounds like server owners just ban him without having any proof
22:49 * Fixer .oO(282. 猫 シ Corp. - SECRETS OF MY AGE [with ローマンRoman]  [3:07])
22:51 IhrFussel To me even the IDEA of banning someone for doing something on an ENTIRELY different server is absurd...you should ban players if they break rules on YOUR server and not if they do stuff on others
22:51 red-001 oh not this again
22:52 EldritchOnVoltz joined #minetest-hub
22:52 * Fixer all the fuzz
22:52 VaultyTowers added a GPU finally
22:52 red-001 VaultyTowers, you sure have a lot of nicks
22:52 VaultyTowers yup
22:53 VaultyTowers I added an AMD Radeon II to a 32-Bit motherboard lol
22:53 VaultyTowers seems to be working so no complaints
22:53 Shara IhrFussel: What are you talking about?
22:53 red-001 IhrFussel, huh are you responding in the right channel?
22:53 red-001 I don't see any talk of banning here
22:53 Shara Darklands is MY server, and I don't even know who angelo1123_ is.
22:54 Shara I certainly don't ban people based on what I've heard they did elsewhere either.
22:54 Fixer VaultyTowers: wat?
22:55 Fixer radeon ii on 32bit motherboard? o_0
22:55 Shara As for whether or not someone has been launching attacks on DL, the answer is yes, they have.
22:55 VaultyTowers Shara, he has a history in Skyblocks and captains corners that got him banned there too
22:55 VaultyTowers ust sayin :P
22:56 Shara VaultyTowers: Whoever has been hitting DL is switching IP address.
22:56 VaultyTowers Fixer, yup
22:56 red-001 here you dropped this "J"
22:56 VaultyTowers dont ask me how but
22:56 Shara And changing names.
22:56 IhrFussel Shara, the ban talk is not about your server...it's about another server that banned him for "hearsay" it seems cause people told me the reason for the ban was because angelo attacked YOUR server with a modified client and caused trouble
22:56 Shara So I certainly haven't made any claim about it being a certain person
22:56 VaultyTowers I wish I could replace my celeron processor with an Antheon II
22:57 Shara IhrFussel: I can't really say much without knowing which other server is involved. There are some servers that will mirror my bans, because I'm also on the team.
22:57 VaultyTowers Shara, I'll give you 2
22:57 VaultyTowers Skyblocks and Captains corners
22:57 Shara But in this case, I find it hard to believe someone else banned a person who's name I don't even know due to my server.
22:57 VaultyTowers but not because of your server
22:58 paramat i feel server admin (gods of their universes) can do what they want, even if that means banning due to bad behaviour elsewhere :]
22:58 Fixer VaultyTowers: athlon II?
22:58 IhrFussel Shara, the question is has there recently been a player who *attacked* your server with such a modified client (even though I'm not sure how you can "attack" a server with a Minetest client no matter how much code you change)
22:58 VaultyTowers Fixer, yes
22:59 Shara IhrFussel: My moderator team has reported a player who is able to kill via command, among other things. I haven't witnessed it myself, but I have seen them quickly switch IP address multiple times to get back on after being banned.
22:59 Shara They also boasted they have a hacked client, and have flooded out at least one IRC channel.
23:00 IhrFussel paramat, and THAT is wrong IMO...a server owner is not a god...there should be rules even the server owner HAS TO follow...a server owner is just a regular human being and not better than the others
23:00 Shara The xban/db file also got wiped after another player (don't knwo if connected) claimed he could get back on after a ban
23:00 nore IhrFussel: a server owner is not a god, but it's still *their* server, so in what concerns their server, they do as they want
23:00 IhrFussel But *some* server owners seem to abuse their powers of having an own "world" which is disgusting
23:01 VaultyTowers Shara, xban is broken
23:01 Shara Tenplus1 confirmed that same player was on Xanadua and was able to delete blocks players shouldn't be able to remove.
23:01 red-001 huh I wonder is this a new exploit
23:01 Shara VaultyTowers: Clearly something is. I'm just providing what details I do have.
23:01 VaultyTowers we have to /ban players and its not effective due to dynamic IPs
23:01 red-001 or if they set this up during the previous exploit
23:01 nore IhrFussel: hosting a server is a service given to the community, you can't force server owners to do anything, and shouldn't
23:02 VaultyTowers Shara, we know this after many players returning in skyblocks
23:02 paramat there are no rules for server admin, they do as they please, if they are unreasonable players will leave
23:02 Shara VaultyTowers: I'm well aware.
23:02 red-001 so what servers have been affected?
23:02 red-001 do they share any mods of interst?
23:02 nore IhrFussel: and if players disagree with the owner, they just shouldn't play
23:03 IhrFussel nore, server owners should accept critique, they should see their own mistakes, they should NOT feel innocent and invincible...but many of them do
23:03 Shara The people using this supposed client on DL were calling it the Permutation client.
23:03 Fixer IhrFussel: i usually don't play on server with abusive admins, best example is xanadu (unfortunately)
23:03 nore IhrFussel: they should listen to critique, yes, but they should rule their server as they want
23:03 red-001 Permutation eh?
23:04 nore if people don't like it, they don't play
23:04 Shara IhrFussel: My approach to admining my servers is I make my rules, as I want them, then I follow them too.
23:04 IhrFussel nore, that doesn't change the fact that some server rules may violate human rights...for example
23:04 red-001 well time to see if there is anything about that on the usually forums
23:04 nore IhrFussel: ehm what?
23:04 nore give me an example
23:05 nore a single example will do
23:05 Shara I don't set rules I am not happy to follow myself.
23:05 nore because I don't think there is any
23:05 * VaultyTowers found a Geforce 2 MX
23:05 VaultyTowers ancient piece of shit
23:06 Sokomine most server owners are very reasonable people and do a very good job. some may be inexperienced with running a server, but those are not present on this channel
23:06 Fixer VaultyTowers: had GF2mx ;)
23:06 VaultyTowers it sux
23:06 Fixer played on it
23:06 VaultyTowers now afk
23:07 Fixer when updated to AGP 4x, speed increase was noticeable
23:07 paramat well yeah there is the law of course
23:07 VaultyTowers oh btw this radeon is making a big diff
23:08 nore IhrFussel: actually, I don't see *how* a server rule could violate human rights
23:08 IhrFussel nore, Freedom of speech ... if the admin doesn't let you talk about the things YOU want (without inappropriate language/topics) it's violating human rights
23:08 nore IhrFussel: no.
23:08 Shara IhrFussel: Actually no.
23:09 nore https://xkcd.com/1357/
23:09 IhrFussel To not be allowed to ARGUE with admins/moderators is against human rights
23:09 kaeza being on a server is a privilege, not a right
23:09 nore this explains the thing very well ^
23:09 Shara IhrFussel: I don't run a server so people can claim they have a right to argue with me.
23:09 IhrFussel Oh so you think human rights don't apply to servers
23:09 nore IhrFussel: read what I said.
23:10 Shara Check nore's link really.
23:10 Sokomine IhrFussel: that's...tricky. inappropriate language/topics may be diffrent depending on circumstances (i.e. country)
23:10 red-001 common misconception, freenode of speach applies to goverment not people or companies
23:10 IhrFussel Shara, what if you are WRONG with a decision? You don't let people argue with you? You don't give them the chance to SHOW you what YOU did wrong? You think you do EVERYTHING right? That is extremely ignorant and arrogant at the same time
23:11 Shara IhrFussel: I let them speak POLITELY to me.
23:11 Shara I do not let them yell or scream and attack me.
23:11 paramat i am not defending bad server admin behaviour, just disagree with: "there should be rules even the server owner HAS TO follow" as long as they are within the law
23:11 nore IhrFussel: TL;DR: the government can't arrest you for what you say, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to listen to it, etc
23:11 nore paramat: exactly
23:11 Shara IhrFussel: Do you have issues with how I run my servers?
23:11 IhrFussel Shara, since when is arguing screaming or bad language?
23:12 Shara Because I;m not really sure what this is about.
23:12 Sokomine IhrFussel: it's rarely a problem. even if the server has a rule about not arguing with admins/mods those ought to be open to discussion if someone talks to them reasonable. and most will. if they don't...there is in the end no other way than to choose a better server
23:12 paramat "To not be allowed to ARGUE with admins/moderators is against human rights" hehe nonsense
23:13 Shara IhrFussel: Most "arguments" I ever had on a server were kids telling me they don't need to follow server rules.
23:13 IhrFussel I'm simply saying server owners should feel like regular players but with more responsibility...they shouldn't feel like some kind of king who owns EVERYTHING ... at least this is what I act like on my server and my players seem to like my non-harsh view
23:13 Shara IhrFussel: Again, are you saying you have a problem with how I run my servers?
23:14 Fixer depends on admin
23:14 IhrFussel Shara, no this wasn't about your server or any other particular server...it was just a general rant about how some owners act wrong IMO
23:14 Fixer some admins are hitler like, some - help a lot, some - neutral
23:15 Sokomine IhrFussel: yes. and that's what we here expect and try to do anyway :-) still, a server owner might loose patience if the 100sth griefer comes along. they're humans after all
23:15 Shara It's just that mine is the only server you've named.
23:15 Sokomine Fixer: er...maybe that's a comparison that goes a bit too far
23:15 Fixer Sokomine: dictator-like admins*
23:16 red-001 Reductio ad Hitlerum?
23:16 Sokomine no, godwins law
23:16 IhrFussel I named your server cause some people said a player named "angelo" attacked your server and that's why he is banned there too...but if there NEVER was an attack/or no evidence the ban seems pointless to me and the admin who banned is an a**
23:16 Fixer also, "helpers" can be funny too
23:17 Shara I'm the first to agree there are some terrible server owners, but I go out of my way to be fair.
23:17 red-001 well some sever owners act like a dictator, dictators act like dictator, therefore dictator where server owners
23:17 Shara IhrFussel: My server has been attacked badly enough that I've now prevented any players from joining. I did not want to do this, but my admin team is threatening to quit.
23:17 Sokomine Fixer: admins have a hard life :-)
23:17 red-001 I must have commited at least a ten logical fallacies there
23:18 Shara I can't tell you if this angelo person is the attacker or not. But there definitely have been attacks.
23:18 Fixer i've seen scene where admin helper was arguing with player about replanting melons or smth, it was funny
23:18 Shara AFK a bit.
23:18 Fixer it is like REPLANT THE FUCKING MELONS!!!!!!!!1111
23:18 Fixer i'm adding to it extra drama
23:19 Fixer REPLANT OR DIE
23:19 Fixer best slogan for anarchy server
23:19 paramat IhrF so if i leave this IRC channel and refuse to listen to your arguments, i am then violating your human rights and will be arrested? nah i'm just refusing to argue with someone :]
23:19 red-001 "BY THE AUTHORITY GRANTED TO ME BY THE SERVER OWNER I COMMAND YOU TO REPLANT MELONS!"
23:19 Sokomine well, on a public farm...if a player just takes and doesn't replant...it might be that the new player is either too inexperienced and needs help in controlling his client - or that the player doesn't care and might not fit to the server
23:19 Fixer red-001: lol, yes
23:20 Fixer Sokomine: or admin helper can replant some later anyway
23:20 Fixer it is not like end of the world
23:21 Sokomine Fixer: that's not the issue...but a player who doesn't care about such things may do other things (i.e. cutting trees halfway, leaving nerdpoles, destroying the landscape) that are undesirable on some servers
23:21 Fixer Sokomine: now, thats why admins became Hitler
23:21 Fixer especially admins with OCD
23:22 red-001 "FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS DEMAND WILL RESULT IN TERMINATION"
23:22 Sokomine that comparison is still unfitting
23:23 Fixer Sokomine: 90% of players are on mobile, and I'm sure 99% of them are kids, that will cutting trees halfway, leaving nerdpoles, destroying the landscape, building wooden boxes in the middle of the fucking river
23:23 Sokomine i see admins more as hosts of a party. the host might not be terribly exited if you jump around on his bed or pour drinks on the floor :-) on the other side if the host misbehaves the guests are likely not to come back again and leave rather fast :-)
23:24 Fixer so in the end you want to get rid of the kids :}
23:24 Fixer get of my lawn
23:24 Fixer (tm)
23:24 Sokomine hmm. on some places :-)
23:24 Sokomine they can jump happily around on the lawn :-) but on servers where building and keeping the landscape are important those kids might not be at the right place
23:25 Sokomine players with mobile clients certainly have a much harder time with getting around
23:26 Fixer actually
23:27 Fixer it is possible to devide the world: one part for usual mess and another for pro players
23:27 VaultyTowers ^ hubs
23:27 Fixer if without PVP
23:28 Fixer VaultyTowers: hubs + multiple realms on same world
23:28 Fixer kids are happy, pros are happy
23:28 VaultyTowers if someone comes out with an actual RPG (as in millions of dungeons and loot) server I will totally play it
23:35 paramat joined #minetest-hub
23:36 Fixer devide = divide
23:38 IhrFussel Fixer, PvP can be pos based...my server is marked as "pvp enabled" but as soon as you try to punch someone outside of the arena you get an error message
23:38 Fixer IhrFussel: i love this part of minetest
23:38 Fixer you can define pvp areas and such
23:39 Shara Back again
23:39 IhrFussel I defined a Lucky Block Area, a PvP Area...even a parkour area that automatically disables fly/fast to prevent cheating
23:40 Shara To be honest, I don't think there is anything wrong with saying a server isn't for kids in some cases. Kids certainly are not the focus on my creative server.
23:40 Shara On the other hand, if they do follow the rules, I don't care what age they are.
23:40 Shara But I happen to want a server that is mostly for mroe serious building.
23:40 Shara more*
23:42 Fixer Shara: what I envision: if we have realms in engine/game, just make some realms: 1) survival with kid ghetto 2) pro realm with ladies and gentlemen
23:42 Shara Fixer: Sure, but if I as an admin have no interest in running option 1 there, why should I?
23:43 Shara I have quite limtied resources, bothin terms of my server and my time.
23:43 Fixer Shara: not talking about you
23:43 Fixer just brainstorming
23:43 Shara I know, but just saying in general.
23:43 Shara People are going to run what they are interested in running.
23:43 Fixer 1) survival with kid ghetto 2) pro realm with ladies and gentlemen (whitelisted) 3) creative
23:43 Fixer Shara: yes
23:44 red-001 "kid ghetto"
23:44 Shara But it's also why it's good when groups of servers work together.
23:44 red-001 thats one way to describe that area on a lot of servers
23:44 Shara I redirect kids who aren't really a good fit on my server to TPS when I can.
23:45 Shara Since I also admin there, but the server targets a different audience.
23:45 red-001 just outside of spawn zone, but not too far
23:47 Fixer Shara: in my dirty mind right now: on login to server ask new player: 1) tap this button to join => goes to kid ghetto 2) Glorious PC user: press Scrl+Lock + random button => goes to really good heaven like realm ^_^
23:47 Stone-Talus joined #minetest-hub
23:47 Shara Fixer: You are still trusting them to click the right thing for them :)
23:47 benrob0329-latop Why not a hub world?
23:48 Fixer red-001: depends on spawn, some spawns are ruins to begin with %)
23:48 Fixer Shara: good luck finding ScrlLock on phone
23:48 Shara Huh?
23:48 Fixer Shara: ScrlLock + Num .
23:48 Fixer .________.
23:48 Fixer fatality
23:48 benrob0329-latop Keyboard
23:49 Shara Why would I need that?
23:49 Fixer if kid has phone with keyboard => unusual advanced kid
23:49 Shara Oh.
23:49 Fixer android software keyboard is shitty iirc
23:49 Shara Well, I wouldn't want to just block all phone users
23:49 Fixer you need to install 3rd party one
23:50 Shara One of the most capable builders I've known plays from a phone.
23:50 Fixer Shara: just separate them in different realms
23:50 Fixer also
23:50 red-001 I don't think I have scrollock anymore
23:50 red-001 lost a key from my keyboard when cleaning it
23:50 Fixer PC glorious user can descend to kidhood and commit kid genocide
23:50 Fixer PvP
23:50 red-001 so I just re-used scrollock
23:51 Shara I just don't see the need to do that really.
23:51 Shara It might be nicer for someone who wants to cater for every kind of player going and can afford to/has time to
23:51 Fixer PC user is too good with mouse and keyboard
23:52 Shara But I'm happy to just have a couple of servers that are doing okay.
23:52 Fixer it does make sence companies separate console and PC matches
23:52 Fixer Shara: you are welcome :}
23:53 Shara Removing phone users from my main world would mean dead server.
23:53 Fixer Shara: discussion was not about you
23:53 Fixer eh, too bad I can't host
23:53 Fixer Shara: yep
23:53 red-001 http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/ima​ges/original/000/508/690/0d8.jpg
23:53 Shara Fixer: Does that mean I can't share thoughts? :)
23:53 * VanessaE wanders back in
23:53 Fixer red-001: over 9000
23:53 Shara Hi VanessaE
23:53 VanessaE Shara: https://imgur.com/gallery/BtrQK
23:54 Shara VanessaE: Give me five minutes there. It will then have nice empty shelves :)
23:54 VanessaE lol
23:54 * VanessaE waves an éclair at Shara  ;)
23:54 Shara Ekk!
23:54 * Shara tries to grab
23:54 Fixer VanessaE: that furniture..
23:55 VanessaE Shara: look over there on the right, the black freezer case with the pies on top.
23:55 Shara Want...
23:55 VanessaE see that lower shelf?  second tray from the right, with the dark frosting.  éclairs :D
23:55 VanessaE s/freezer/refrigerator/
23:55 Shara >.>
23:56 Fixer red-001: 4K @ 60FPS (c)
23:56 * Shara sighs
23:56 Shara VanessaE: Why did you have to learn my only true weakness so soon? :(
23:56 VanessaE muahahahaha
23:56 VanessaE >:-)
23:56 Shara Evil mastermind eclair ninja!
23:56 VanessaE just wait till next time I visit that chocolatier here in town ;)
23:58 * Shara is doomed
23:59 VanessaE heh
23:59 VanessaE that's it, you're just gonna have to charter a plane and come visit :)

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext