Time Nick Message 00:01 Fixer sofar: now do CSM version of skybox %) 00:01 Fixer sofar: i like it 00:02 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/Wk9599A.jpg 00:02 Fixer damn it is good 00:02 Fixer so good 00:05 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/sVwmOOP.jpg :O 00:05 Fixer add ambience to this and get a top f-ing win 00:08 Fixer good night everyone 00:09 * VanessaE throws up her hands in frustration. I give up! Technic is too complicated for me to fix any more :( 00:09 * Jordach_ gives VanessaE a hug 00:09 * Jordach_ understands 00:11 VanessaE with all due respect as appropriate, technic's codebase sucks. it's impossible to understand, scattered across too many files, terribly organized, and 1000x more complicated than it needs to be 00:11 VanessaE nore: enjoy. :P 00:11 * Jordach_ isn't re-writing that 00:11 * nore is ^^' 00:24 * Jordach_ performs the solar plains art pass on RBA's water texture 00:25 Jordach_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/README.txt#L40 00:47 benrob0329 Hello 00:55 Jordach_ wat ze fak 00:55 Jordach_ _OnGenerated(): not enough memory 00:55 Jordach_ 2017-04-14 01:55:13: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 9 MB 00:55 Jordach_ >9MB 00:57 Jordach_ FFFFFFF 00:57 Jordach_ 2017-04-14 01:57:32: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 3 MB 00:57 Jordach_ GC64 WEN 01:00 benrob0329 What is this, 1994? 01:00 Jordach_ sofar, https://jordach.net/Images/Screenshots/screenshot_20170414_015939.png 01:00 Jordach_ shits fire yo 01:00 Jordach_ there's a few texture revisions to the trees 01:01 benrob0329 O_O 01:01 Jordach_ overkill or underkill 01:01 * benrob0329 wishes he was home to do a cinematic video now 01:01 Jordach_ dirt, grass, grass side, cherry side, birch side, water 01:01 * Jordach_ OOMs again 01:02 Jordach_ benrob0329, https://jordach.net/Images/Screenshots/screenshot_20170414_020213.png 01:02 Jordach_ RBA's water with a solar plains art pass 01:03 benrob0329 Jordach_: its...beautiful 01:06 nore wow 01:06 Jordach_ if Solar Plains the one game with amiga art can look 800% BETTER 01:28 benrob0329 http://imgur.com/a/IwXuX 01:28 benrob0329 my, this isnt broken at all 05:37 VanessaE sofar: so.. about the skybox mod. alpha support and multi-layers and hard-coded sky behind the images ... when? :D 05:43 sofar !tell fixer csm skyboxes make little sense - there's nothing to opimize 05:43 ShadowBot sofar: O.K. 05:54 nore sofar: procedurally-generated skyboxes by client :) 06:17 sofar sure, but that needs a lot of engine work 06:19 VanessaE "New in 0.4.17: [...] map terrain generation can now be applied to the skies to produce clouds (sofar) [...] " 06:19 VanessaE :) 06:24 sofar VanessaE: honestly that mod isn't doing anything new 06:24 sofar VanessaE: it's just smart about how and what 06:28 VanessaE perhaps, but only takes one good baser implementation to get people really interested in moar Moar MOAR :) 06:28 VanessaE -r 07:11 celeron55 what i do on computers that have the stutter in singleplayer is i just set max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 1 07:16 celeron55 at this point i can't guess if it even is the same stutter as years ago, could be something different 07:19 tenplus1 hi folks 07:19 VanessaE morning, tenplus1 07:19 tenplus1 hi Vanessa 07:20 VanessaE celeron55: am I at least close in my guess then, that the mesh generator stalls the renderer because they're in the same thread (or at same priority)? 07:21 celeron55 eh, they aren't in the same thread 07:21 tenplus1 hi celeron 07:21 VanessaE hm, ok 07:21 celeron55 the stutter would be unimaginable in that case 07:23 celeron55 when i was digging into it years ago, the mesh generator could process all it wanted; the stutter happened only when the generated meshes were made to be rendered which meant that something did something with them synchronously at the first time they were rendered, and irrlicht didn't seem to, so the suspect ended up being the gpu driver 07:24 celeron55 i think that showed up as mainloop_draw time though 07:25 celeron55 well it does spike in Fixer's graphs also 07:25 VanessaE better to visit VE-S and see for yourself. especially walking from spawn eastward toward the tunnel 07:26 VanessaE if you really wanna melt your machine down, install HDX too ;) 07:26 VanessaE (but I think we've been through this before) 07:27 celeron55 looks like on this system it looks like back then 07:28 celeron55 all the stutter is seen in mainloop_draw 07:29 VanessaE is that good, or bad? :) 07:29 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/SGImCRM.png 07:29 celeron55 like this 07:30 celeron55 it means it's the same thing as before, to which there seems to be no other solution than to just not update more meshes than 1 per frame 07:30 celeron55 back then i found it to be outside of MT's control otherwise 07:31 VanessaE http://i.imgur.com/pi3QFYq.png 07:31 VanessaE that's my test world. 07:32 VanessaE jitter/fps are actually fairly good on that shot, as you can see 07:32 tenplus1 o.O the fist looks like it's trying to make a fart sound 07:32 celeron55 that has some _other like Fixer's, but most of it seems to be in _draw 07:32 celeron55 awit 07:32 celeron55 wait* 07:32 celeron55 no it doesn't 07:33 celeron55 isn't* 07:33 * celeron55 how does i english 07:33 VanessaE you talk good Engrish ;) 07:34 celeron55 i think those graphs look fine enough, no need to do anything 07:34 VanessaE wait.. :P 07:34 VanessaE http://i.imgur.com/WlhEOUf.png 07:36 celeron55 that's still nothing compared to Fixer's 07:36 VanessaE ok, let's try ... this. >:-) 07:37 celeron55 what is important is the amount of stutter compared to the base level of processing 07:37 VanessaE http://i.imgur.com/dyIkrVk.png 07:38 celeron55 doesn't seem to correlate with mesh generation 07:38 VanessaE it was. 07:38 VanessaE or it was entities loading, maybe 07:38 celeron55 actually, Fixer's might not either 07:38 VanessaE I'm not sure which. 07:38 celeron55 i just realized something, actually 07:39 VanessaE however, with each stall, there's new meshes coming in 07:39 VanessaE oh? 07:40 celeron55 if a frame takes 2x the time due to literally anything at all, the server may have sent 2x the amount of meshes during that time and that can cause the meshes to spike for that exact amount 07:40 VanessaE sounds reasonable. 07:40 celeron55 i'm calling any _other-only spikes as not being caused by mesh generation 07:41 celeron55 Fixer has similar ones, it's not the thing my screenshot is showing 07:41 celeron55 and not the thing i looked into back then 07:42 celeron55 it's probably just something the client directly does with some kind of data as it comes from the server (it does all that synchronously) 07:43 celeron55 (except for things that have specially made workers like meshes) 07:47 celeron55 that should be easily diagnosed by just adding a time measurement to all packet handlers and seeing which one is the most active when that kind of stutter happens 07:51 VanessaE celeron55: try this: sign onto daconcepts.com 30001, I'll teleport you to where I am. 07:52 VanessaE just turn on the graphs and observe the thing I'm looking at. 07:52 celeron55 might not be very useful on this system that has the problem with meshes already 07:52 VanessaE (a simple mesecons clock that runs a few dozen lengths of wire, toggles about once per 1.5 seconds, on average) 07:54 celeron55 i guess i can cook and eat my breakfast while this media download is happening 07:54 VanessaE heh 07:54 VanessaE should only take a minute or two 07:55 VanessaE well maybe a bit more since you're getting 1 Mbps or so :) 07:58 VanessaE ah, I see you in-game. let me know when and I'll teleport you over here. 07:58 VanessaE (or you can just wander around, it isn't far from the spawn) 07:59 tenplus1 Fire Redo updated to add new /fire (on.off) command to stop and remove spreading fire in-game 08:02 VanessaE celeron55: melted your computer into slag? 08:04 tenplus1 hi Krock 08:04 Krock hi tenplus1 08:04 VanessaE morning Krock 08:04 Krock moin VanessaE 08:06 tenplus1 what kinda priv should be required to turn fire spreading on/off ? 08:06 Krock server, I guess? 08:06 tenplus1 kewl, got that set as default 08:07 cheapie celeron55: http://imgsrv.worldstart.com/1/8773Body.jpg yet? 08:07 celeron55 well, all i can say is that what i see doesn't disprove what i said 08:07 tenplus1 github.com/tenplus1/fire <-- new /fire (on|off) added to stop fire spreading in-game... also normal chest burns and drops items 08:07 VanessaE celeron55: fair enough. Just wanted you to see what an in-practice server looks like 08:07 VanessaE in the graphs 08:07 * tenplus1 gets out marshmallows 08:08 celeron55 the stutter is ridiculous though 08:08 cheapie I turned my meshgen delay up a bit, seems fine to me now. 08:10 celeron55 if someone has a system that doesn't stutter on VE-S, i'd like to know 08:10 tenplus1 ve-s ? 08:10 VanessaE tenplus1: daconcepts.com 30001 08:10 cheapie celeron55: Mine only stutters if I have a low or 0 meshgen delay set. 08:10 VanessaE aka "VE-Survival" or "VE-S" for short. 08:10 tenplus1 logging in 08:10 cheapie Jordach's might be able to handle 0. 08:11 VanessaE my machine can't avoid stutter even at 50. 08:11 celeron55 cheapie: on that server? 08:11 cheapie Yes. 08:11 celeron55 it doesn't seem mesh-related, what else does the meshgen delay affect? 08:12 cheapie I don't have much noticeable stutter at 10, but it's rather bad at 0. 08:12 cheapie It seems to be worse with lots of entities moving around, maybe that's it? 08:12 tenplus1 christ, am getting 5fps... what's up here ??? 08:13 tenplus1 tha's better, am away from spawn... 29 fps... no stutter so far 08:16 tenplus1 any chance of adding a /clear chat command ? 08:17 tenplus1 would help a lot 08:17 cheapie Make a client mod for it :P 08:17 tenplus1 can lua actually clear log ??? 08:17 Krock no but it can be flooded with empty messages 08:17 cheapie By displaying a bunch of blank messages, yeah. 08:18 tenplus1 noooooo, that's a nasty way of doing it... by clear I mean delete log entirely 08:18 tenplus1 celeron55: am in the middle of nowhere with 54fps and no stutter, even when loading map 08:20 tenplus1 what am I looking for in F5 stats ? 08:20 tenplus1 hi lumidify 08:21 celeron55 no you need to be right in the center of everything 08:21 celeron55 and what you're looking for in F5 is a screenshot 08:21 tenplus1 so go back to spawn and take a screenshot of stats ? 08:21 celeron55 that's a good start 08:23 celeron55 preferably with a view range of not very far like <100 so that stutter is clearer 08:25 tenplus1 http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=35b6luu&s=9 08:26 tenplus1 does that help ? 08:28 celeron55 yeah, looks pretty much the same as for me 08:29 celeron55 and now i'm thinking maybe this is related to mesh generation, but in a different way than what i've seen before 08:31 tenplus1 brb 08:34 celeron55 the goal can't be anything else than getting rid of all that, of course, but i need to find out whether it's actually possible in practice 08:35 celeron55 or someone has to; i'm taking a look now in case it happens to be worth anything 09:31 VanessaE *sees celeron55 re-join on VE-S* 09:31 VanessaE uh oh, I think I lit a fire ;) 09:48 sfan5 why do people want me to remove xanadu from the srvlist? 09:48 sfan5 (ping: sofar) 10:02 * VanessaE wonders what celeron55 is up to... 10:03 sfan5 hm well i get that it doesn't accept registrations atm 10:03 sfan5 but having a server on the list still is useful for providing the client with flags 10:03 sfan5 so it can populate the entry players have in their favorites 10:04 VanessaE if it were up to me, any server that's gone private like that would be best excluded from the public list 10:05 sfan5 we could just move it to the bottom 10:05 VanessaE sounds fair 10:05 VanessaE demote rather than delete 10:18 nerzhul sfan5, can you tell me what do we do with https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5559 ? Merge ? remove some files from the changeset and merge ? 10:19 sfan5 i'll look at it later 10:39 * VanessaE wanders off to sleep 10:54 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/t2xoh55.png 10:57 celeron55 most of the mainloop_other time is handling of TOCLIENT_BLOCKDATA packets, most of which is spent deserializing mapblock node metadata inventories and the rest is copying mapblock data to the mesh generator 10:59 celeron55 mainloop_dtime is mainloop_other + mainloop_draw though, and i have no idea why mainloop_draw bounces up like that 11:00 Shara Hello all 11:01 celeron55 but it does look like on VE-S at least a third of the lagginess is due to lots of node inventories being received all the time 11:02 celeron55 at least in that specific spot 11:05 celeron55 if one limits the mesh generator speed, then the server will wait for it before sending more mapblock updates and that way the TOCLIENT_BLOCKDATA handler doesn't get so much data and the server is capable of doing enough prioritization for the missing updates to not be very noticeable 11:06 celeron55 (mainly it just leaves out updates for blocks that are not very close to the player) 11:11 Krock thus, it may be helpful to not send the while mapblock if only the node meta changed 11:11 celeron55 the server will send a full mapblock basically always when something changes and it doesn't have a more specific way of sending the change, and also if there are many small changes 11:11 Krock *whole 11:11 Fixer stutters i seen: 1) meshgen (most annoying) 2) due to mesecons/stuff 3) big freezes during loading kaeza signs (catched on ve-s) 4) other stutters that show up in mainloop_other (including in singleplayer) 11:12 Fixer 5) stutter when using https://github.com/minetest-mods/dynamic_liquid/ in ocean with open cave below (very big stutter in mainloop_other) 11:13 celeron55 Fixer: meshgen doesn't show up in mainloop_other; stop calling it that and call it mapblock updates instead 11:13 celeron55 it just happens to be that the meshgen is invoked for mapblock updates (obviously) 11:13 Fixer i know, where did i said it? /me sips coffee 11:14 Fixer yes, mainloop other is nondraw related 11:15 celeron55 Krock: it would be very useful to know what even changes on the server to cause the updates 11:16 Fixer i pinpointed kaeza signs that skyrocket mainloop_other part, but what causes it in vanilla singleplayer... 11:16 celeron55 i'm not going to try guessing 11:17 celeron55 adding some logging on the server might be a good idea, just to make it say why it's sending mapblocks 11:17 Fixer "mini" stutter https://i.imgur.com/JH9rDBm.png 11:18 Fixer just 0.009 in other but some time before it was like 0.3 11:18 Fixer lone spike 11:21 Fixer sofar's skybox mod: https://i.imgur.com/CbQDVC5.jpg 11:26 Fixer kek https://i.imgur.com/FAB2Kx3.png 11:26 Fixer 2.2 sec stutter 11:26 Fixer mainloop_other 11:27 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/XCR3wqc.png 11:27 celeron55 deserializing about a thousand inventorylists per frame 8) 11:27 celeron55 how about that 11:27 Jordach *click* noice 11:28 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/Roasy40.png standing on spawn with mesh gen delay set at 15ms 11:28 Krock holy shit. where do these changes even come from?! 11:28 Fixer traffic from vanessa server is about 100kbyte/sec 11:29 celeron55 Krock: that's what i'd like to know 11:29 Fixer still, mesh gen interval at 15 ms helps immensely on ve-s 11:31 celeron55 let's write some instrumentation for VE's server and see what on earth it's even trying to do 11:34 Jordach celeron55, i think that's like errr disecting a dead whale, it'll likely explode if you do :P 11:36 Fixer van spawn without mesh gen delay https://i.imgur.com/tRhO5yi.png 11:40 Fixer sigh, nore's shop has no text on kaeza signs because of usual reasons 11:40 Fixer too many entities or smth 12:09 celeron55 in the VE-S case, i think it's not feasible to make much improvement on the client side when the server is being that silly 12:12 celeron55 i pushed those additional graphs to this branch https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/toclient_blockdata_graphs 12:13 celeron55 some random screenshots of those might be useful 12:23 CWz Upps forgot to remove that tag 12:24 Krock ha ha ha. I don't get it. 12:24 Fixer added to my compile patch set 12:28 Krock *compiles* 12:28 Fixer *compiling intensifies* 12:29 paramat the worst problem i get is long, up to 1 sec, screen freezes. i often notice this when starting a new world and flying fast over a large snowy forest (complex meshes) with view range 130-190 12:31 tenplus1 hi folks 12:31 Krock hi tenplus1 12:32 celeron55 paramat: sounds like you probably run out of RAM and your system ends up swapping 12:32 Megaf Hi onetyone 12:32 tenplus1 hi Megaf 12:32 * Megaf dont know how he is not the most hated person on Earth 12:33 tenplus1 celeron55: strangely enough I had that issue yesterday, mt ram usage shot right up and used vm causing major lag and stall 12:33 celeron55 meshes use up a lot of memory 12:33 tenplus1 this was default game 12:33 tenplus1 no mods 12:34 Fixer ram size? 12:34 tenplus1 my net-top has 2gb physical and 1gb vm 12:35 Shara Hi ten :) 12:35 tenplus1 hi Shara :) 12:35 tenplus1 got something you may like btw... github.com/tenplus1/fire 12:37 Krock some stats: http://i.imgur.com/ASZVijB.png 12:38 Calinou hi tenplus1 12:39 tenplus1 hi cal 12:39 Shara tenplus1: My skyboxes are almost working now :) 12:39 Shara Just need to find or make a couple more 12:39 tenplus1 ooh, link meh :P I like what I saw before 12:39 Shara http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/thebox_sky_hub.png 12:40 Shara And thinking of using http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/thebox_sky_night.png 12:40 tenplus1 ooh 12:40 tenplus1 I added a command to fire Redo for noob servers... can type: /fire off and it stops spreading in-game and removes nodes on update 12:41 Shara Problem is, the people it would help are unlike to find a redo mod 12:41 Shara Byt the time they do that, they know enough to find options too 12:41 Shara though I like the idea of an ingame switch 12:41 tenplus1 heh yeah... but would let owners enable fire with a quick option to disable it 12:44 Shara I just need time to make the teleporters I need now :P 12:44 tenplus1 custom mods 101 :PPP 12:45 Shara It's the only way to do this one 12:45 tenplus1 whaddya need from it ? 12:45 Shara The teleporters? 12:45 tenplus1 yeah 12:45 Shara Hehe, PMN if you want to help. You'd be more than welcome to :) 12:45 Shara PM* 12:46 paramat nope it wasn't running out of RAM i have 7GB free 12:46 Fixer paramat: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/toclient_blockdata_graphs 12:47 Fixer paramat: this has more debug graphs, try with it 12:48 paramat thanks 12:51 celeron55 those graphs were chosen to pinpoint the problem on VE-S, they aren't general purpose, really, altough at least you can tell if the problem is the same or not 12:52 paramat ok 12:53 paramat i have (good, recent) intel integrated graphics though, maybe this has an effect 12:59 celeron55 in Krock's screenshot one can see that 1) the particular location doesn't have a similarly massive metadata inventory issue as VE-S does, 2) copying mapblock data to mesh update tasks is too slow, 3) there are also other spikes in mainloop_other not caused by anything done by the toclient_blockdata handler 13:00 Krock in other words meaningless 13:00 celeron55 finding out what the other spikes are would be useful 13:01 Krock since the spikes aren't that big 13:02 celeron55 well, in my opinion any mainloop_dtime spike that is twice as high as the normal frametime is too high 13:03 celeron55 in other words i'm happy if dtime_jitter is less than 100% 13:04 celeron55 or, well, i'm happy anyway, but i don't expect players to be happy with that being higher than 100% 8) 13:06 Fixer will try with dynamic liquid mod 13:08 Fixer dynamic liquid mod : https://i.imgur.com/fGMoULo.png 13:08 Fixer freezes 13:08 paramat unsurprisingly 13:10 Fixer dynamic liquid uses abms on water nodes iirc 13:10 Fixer swaps nodes etc 13:10 paramat nightmare 13:10 paramat it's bad enough in C++ 13:11 Fixer ve-s time 13:12 Fixer celeron55: is it possible to export graph data into csv file and profile like everything.... and then in excel sort out worse offenders 13:13 Fixer huge freeze on ve-s probably because of kaeza signs with those graphs: https://i.imgur.com/d3cLYLH.png 13:14 Fixer mesh upd interv 15 ms 13:15 Fixer 2.11 sec freeze somewhere in other: https://i.imgur.com/YHGfZ37.png 13:16 celeron55 <+Fixer> dynamic liquid mod : https://i.imgur.com/fGMoULo.png <- this is a good example of a spike that is mainly due to the copying of mapblock data to the meshgen 13:17 celeron55 (it's visible as MeshMakeData::fill making up most of the spike) 13:17 celeron55 (85.8ms out of 100ms) 13:21 celeron55 https://i.imgur.com/d3cLYLH.png https://i.imgur.com/YHGfZ37.png <- in these the main source of the >1s spike is not visible; it's something else than anything in the toclient_blockdata handler 13:22 celeron55 i would assume any >1s spike is the OS having to move stuff between ram and swap 13:22 celeron55 but maybe it could be something else too 13:23 celeron55 Fixer: it's possible but all the measurements have to be added to the code 13:24 tenplus1 back laters 13:27 Fixer 8gbit ram, 64 bit os 13:41 celeron55 Fixer: you made a windows build, right? can you upload it somewhere, i'll take some measurements myself 13:41 celeron55 i don't have a build toolchain on this windows box 13:46 paramat my long freezes are only rarely near 1s, mostly they are around 0.2s 13:46 Fixer celeron55: yes 13:46 Fixer celeron55: will upload 13:46 Fixer celeron55: win build via mingw64 crosscompile from lin to win 13:49 Fixer celeron55: https://transfer.sh/56Aao/minetest-0.4.15-98286a2-win64-PR4981-5533-profile.zip 13:55 celeron55 looks like MeshMakeData::fill slowness is the general issue on this system 13:58 celeron55 there's the PR about this, right? the one that takes away the copying of some of the neighbors 13:59 paramat erm 14:00 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5239 ? 14:05 celeron55 the thing is, there's no way to skip this code, and there's no way to make this code asynchronous 14:05 celeron55 and it's already probably the fastest implementation in what it does 14:07 celeron55 well actually there is a way to make it asynchronous 14:07 celeron55 what that would involve is having two copies of the entire Map on the client, one for the main thread and one for the mesh generator thread 14:15 celeron55 possibly with some kind of dynamic batching 14:17 celeron55 preparing the data for the mesh generation job of one mapblock already collects most of the data for generating the mesh of a neighboring mapblock; adding some neighbors to it is relatively cheap 14:20 celeron55 actually, the calling code is so stupid upgrading this doesn't even mean it has to be dynamic, it just needs to be less stupid... 14:21 Fixer pr 5239 did not eliminate the stutter for me 14:23 celeron55 nothing will eliminate it but it should have removed some of the stutter 14:23 celeron55 are you sure it didn't? 14:24 celeron55 it literally removes 77% of processing in MeshMakeData::fill which is the main reason for the spike in https://i.imgur.com/fGMoULo.png 14:25 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5239#issuecomment-280632461 14:25 celeron55 i would expect 5239 to at least halve the spike in that screenshot 14:26 Fixer it probably fixes only some sorts of stutter 14:26 celeron55 the only way to fix all sorts of stutter is to stop using minetest, lol 14:26 Fixer mesh_generation_interval = 15 14:27 Fixer with this i do not need to quit minetest 14:27 Fixer helps immensely in vanilla singleplayer 14:28 Fixer ve-s is worst kind of lagserver 14:28 Fixer just test was too 14:28 Fixer but it died 14:30 celeron55 5239 won't help with the problem in VE-S, it's a different stutter 14:30 celeron55 or, well, VE-S has it too, but it has larger stutters that make it irrelevant 14:34 celeron55 Fixer: can you test with and without 5239's first commit (not the extra two); the preferred situation is the initial first seconds of loading a world that has been generated beforehand 14:35 celeron55 take a screenshot of the graphs just before the first graph lines are about to disappear 14:35 Fixer i can try 14:36 celeron55 even on this laptop that barely has any stutter i can see a 2x decrease in stutter (if you can even call it stutter on this...) 14:36 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/WziViVq.png <- without 5239's first commit 14:36 celeron55 http://i.imgur.com/yJL08oJ.png <- with 5239's first commit 14:37 celeron55 mainloop_other is cut in half 14:37 celeron55 this is with mesh_generation_interval = 0, which should probably be used for these tests 14:38 Fixer i will use default config 14:38 nerzhul modders, i'm working on chat protocol rewrite (started in january), to have better client side handling. A chat message is now composed with: (message, sender, type). Type is: (raw, normal, announce, system) 14:38 nerzhul it will permit CSM mods to ate message and handle it to do nice things (for examples with this mode you can easily create mods to change chat colors depending on type message or nicknames) 14:38 nerzhul do you think i miss someting ? 14:39 nerzhul maybe a timestamp 14:39 nerzhul no ? 14:42 Jordach http://oh-god-not-ht.ml/ 14:44 Krock http://yeahboi.me/ 14:45 octacian nerzhul: cool! 14:51 Fixer celeron55: you mean lower peak mainloop_other? there needs to be some kind of moving avg 14:51 celeron55 well, the problem is spikes, so peak works fine 14:55 nerzhul ty octacian :) 15:00 Fixer celeron55: somewhat crude, i can do it much better https://imgur.com/a/qmbjO 15:01 Fixer celeron55: default config with vrange 240 15:02 celeron55 it seems similar to what i saw 15:03 celeron55 are you able to test a dynamic liquid scenario? 15:04 celeron55 i guess make two copies of a world and take a screenshot after the same amount of seconds or something 15:06 Fixer another try here https://imgur.com/a/QBNW4 15:08 celeron55 that one seems to be first with PR, then no PR 15:10 Fixer smaller mainloop other is with pr 15:11 celeron55 the effect isn't as large as i hoped but it clearly is there 15:14 celeron55 what this means is that any optimization that can be done to Client::addUpdateMeshTaskWithEdge will help 15:15 Fixer celeron55: https://imgur.com/a/7ckbw 15:15 Fixer dynamic liquid 15:15 Fixer close enough 15:16 Fixer made screenshot too fast and missed third spike... 15:18 celeron55 this difference is very clear 15:19 benrob0329 http://bash.org/?870063 15:19 benrob0329 This is one of the greatest things I've ever read. 15:21 Fixer celeron55: when i tested it with 6 or 18 neighb-s i had graphical errors, like that mapblock light edges and broken flowing water 15:22 Krock oh cool! bash is online again. Last time I checked it was down 15:22 nerzhul i prefer zsh 15:23 benrob0329 someone post that 15:24 Jordach http://bash.org/?962787 me_irl 15:25 celeron55 Fixer: yeah i'm not proposing merging of the PR, the PR just happens to have similar performance implications as what i'm thinking could be done without errors 15:25 celeron55 not nearly as easily as changing a number though 15:26 Fixer too bad it is just one sort of stutter 15:29 celeron55 the only way to easily fix most stutters is to limit processing like mesh_generation_interval does, which limits map loading and update speed 15:29 Fixer yes 15:29 Fixer and it helps a lot 15:30 Fixer hugely helps 15:30 celeron55 well it's like telling a man with a broken leg to not walk 15:31 celeron55 can you point out other stutters than this one, and the one that happens on places like VE-S's spawn with a lot of interactive nodes? 15:33 celeron55 the 1-2 second spikes were mentioned but it wasn't clear in which situation they happen 15:34 Fixer stutters i seen: 1) meshgen (most frequent and annoying) 2) due to metadata change in mesecons/technic/whatever? (periodical) 3) big freezes during loading kaeza signs (catched on ve-s) 4) other stutters that show up in mainloop_other (including in singleplayer) 5) stutter when using https://github.com/minetest-mods/dynamic_liquid/ 15:34 celeron55 is 1 the same as 5? 15:34 Fixer celeron55: 1-2 sec freezes caused by loading kaeza signs on ve-s thats like 99.9% sure, since i seen exact moment of stutter and text appearing on signs 15:35 Fixer celeron55: dynamic liquid causes two stutters: small draw one and big nondraw 15:35 Fixer kaeza sign load causes huge nondraw freeze 15:35 Fixer in mainloop_other 15:36 Fixer 5 is just a combination of various stutters %) 15:36 Fixer tbh 15:37 celeron55 so is 1 draw or non-draw? 15:37 Fixer celeron55: dynamic liquids is both 15:38 Fixer celeron55: kaeza signs is nondraw 15:38 Fixer nondraw = in mainloop_other 15:38 celeron55 but "1) meshgen (most frequent and annoying)" 15:39 Fixer in general play in singleplayer/multiplayer like 95% of stutter is mesh updates 15:39 Fixer smth like that 15:40 celeron55 but do you see it in mainloop_other or mainloop_draw? 15:40 Fixer for what case? 15:40 Fixer dynamic liquid? 15:40 Fixer or general play? 15:41 Fixer for general play most stutters occur in mainloop_draw 15:41 celeron55 well, a stutter can't change from one to another :P 15:42 Fixer but you have many of them in one game, due to usual mesh updating and due to other causes 15:43 celeron55 tough luck; we kind of need to be able to separate them anyway, lol 15:43 Fixer in singleplayer with 15 ms i noticed this: 15:44 Fixer 1) mesh update stutter is reduced to very minimum, comfy to play 15:44 Fixer 2) no mesh updates - yet 0.03 sec spike in mainloop_other arrives... 15:44 Fixer or even 0.04 15:44 Fixer during walking 15:44 Fixer hmm 15:45 sofar have you eliminated other sources of stutter? 15:45 sofar e.g. download local map, run around in that? 15:45 Fixer mesh_generation_interval = 15 is silver bullet for me, it fixes vanilla singleplayer and modded multiplayer more or less (except inhuman vanessa server spawns) 15:46 Fixer celeron55: there is more stuttering in singleplayer than in multiplayer for some reason 15:47 Fixer celeron55: if more or less vanilla server 15:48 Fixer it seems 15:53 celeron55 Fixer: that's because most of the stutters happen at the code that receives mapblocks from the server and a singleplayer server can send stuff faster than a dedicated server 15:54 celeron55 Fixer: also because most of the stutters happen at the code that receives mapblocks from the server (same reason), mesh_generation_interval doesn't control the rate properly because it limits mesh generation, not directly the mapblock receive rate that you actually want to control for the purpose 15:55 Fixer not a problem, i've used 15ms interval and it worked good on sp/mp/vanessa 15:56 Fixer on my pc* 15:56 celeron55 it seems dynamic liquid is mainly the exact same stutter but so much worse mesh_generation_interval is unable to limit it 15:57 celeron55 (as it controls the wrong thing) 16:00 Fixer no wait, dynamic liquid has small mesh update stutter and huge different stutter 16:03 Fixer or whatever 16:03 Fixer fuck it 16:04 celeron55 most of the spike that you showed earlier today was caused by MeshMakeData::fill 16:04 celeron55 well, in all of the three screenshots that were of dynamic liquid 16:05 Fixer oh that, yeah 16:05 Fixer but why it shows up in _other? 16:09 celeron55 it's the main thread filling in VoxelManipulators to be handed to the mesh generator, as the mesh generator can't directly read the map 16:10 celeron55 that's how the system works 16:12 celeron55 PR 5239 tries to make it fill in less stuff, and thus stutter less, but it turned out it needs all the stuff 16:17 celeron55 i think this is the most important one to somehow optimize 16:28 Fixer celeron55: but what about kaeza sign/entity multisecond freezes on ve-s? 16:38 celeron55 it's something completely different 16:38 celeron55 where's the source code for those? 16:38 celeron55 is it too complex for a quick read? 16:46 nore celeron55: my perf tests show that the problem is the texture creation that takes a lot of CPU 16:47 nore I don't remember where the code for that is, though 16:47 celeron55 that's a rather obvious case then 16:48 nore well, I guess texture creation could be optimized a bit 16:48 nore but having something more efficient for these signs & others is definitely needed 16:50 celeron55 looks like i'm able to take away 50% of processing from the main thread very crudely by copying mapblock contents into MeshMakeData and creating the VM later in the mesh generator thread 16:51 nore there https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/tile.cpp#L594 16:52 nore rather that https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/tile.cpp#L1014 16:52 celeron55 i mean, just allocating and memcpying each mapblock's data member into a 26+1 long std::vector m_mapblock_data; and then doing what MeshMakeData::fill does in the mesh generator thread; it's like 50% more processing overall, but 50% less processing in the main thread :P 16:52 celeron55 i'm going to try something fancier but i guess this is one option if nothing else works 16:57 Fixer celeron55: https://github.com/minetest-mods/signs_lib 16:59 Fixer just 1163 lines 16:59 Fixer :trollface: 16:59 sofar celeron55: what are the 3 most used struct/classes in minetest when rendering? 17:00 sofar just gonna throw pahole at them and see if they're bad or good 17:01 nore about signs: I think this block of code is the one that should be optimized https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/tile.cpp#L1342 (since signs use [combine with a massive amount of textures) 17:01 celeron55 sofar: i don't know, maybe some irrlicht classes 17:02 sfan5 nore: wrong approach 17:02 sfan5 we should just implement a decent way to make signs 17:02 nore sfan5: yes 17:02 sfan5 also IIRC using [combine a lot is guaranteed to "leak" memory 17:02 sfan5 as each single step to the final tex is cached 17:03 nore hmmm, isn't that the advantage of [combine over ^ though? 17:03 sfan5 no 17:04 sofar #1367 17:04 sfan5 the advantage of [combine over ^ is that you can combine multiple images at once and set their positions 17:04 nore yes 17:04 nore so you don't get the intermediate combinations cached 17:04 sfan5 also what i'm referring to is foo.png^[combine:<...>^[combine:<....>^[combine:<...> 17:04 sfan5 foo.png^[combine.<... lots of stuff ...> is fine 17:05 nore yeah, the first is bad, agreed 17:07 celeron55 i think there's no reason not to optimize [combine, assuming there's a way to optimize it 17:09 nerzhul i think i should refactor client event structure, if i get time, before release to reduce memory usage on events (using POO) 17:09 celeron55 but it doesn't really do anything more than it has to 17:09 nerzhul union = use the largest member memory size 17:12 nerzhul also client events are handled using copy, i don't know if it's heavily used client side, but it can make a big memory penalty when many events are in queue 17:17 celeron55 (maybe some of this belongs to #-dev? 8)) 17:18 sofar damn all this offtopic chat...! 17:19 celeron55 maybe modders will learn C++ if we talk enough about it 17:22 Fixer +1 for signs 17:28 sofar I had high hope that a guy like juhdanad or lhofhansl would have come up with code for #1367 already 17:28 sofar I think my API and method would have worked well and be simple to add 17:29 sofar now I end up writing my own sign mods using entities :( 17:32 nerzhul +1 for C++ 17:33 nore well actually dynamic node textures + a "text" texture modifier that generates text from a charmap image & a string would do that very well 17:34 nore the second one shouldn't be too difficult to do and will probably save a lot when generating the texture 17:35 nore while the former will avoid having so many entities but is more difficult, you need to convince juhdanad to do that :) 17:39 paramat using POO? 17:39 nore paramat: OOP 17:39 nore POO is the French name :) 17:41 Krock poo :3 17:45 CWz Whinne la merde 18:15 paramat ahh object orient 18:23 Fixer celeron55: there is also one very weird fps drop problem i will look into with this enhanced profiler, for some reason fps drops a lot to some value and after some time goes back to normal 18:23 Fixer very strange and random bug i found while playing on hometown server 18:23 Fixer maybe f5 shows up smth useful 18:29 celeron55 checking the GPU and CPU MHz during that would be useful in case it's a throttling event of some kind 18:30 * benrob0329 returns 18:42 Fixer celeron55: if you wondering, my amd/ati hd6870 sometimes drops frequences for very short instant (maybe second or less) during minetest play, observed this in 0.4.13 or somewhere 19:28 Hijiri minetest must be so efficient that the card is tricked into thinking it needs less power 19:29 Fixer gpu-z said videocard utilisation was at 20-50%, no idea how it measures it 19:36 Krock busy vs idle in a specified timespan, and then the average of it, perhaps? 19:56 tenplus1 hi folks 19:56 Shara Hi ten :P 19:56 tenplus1 hi shara 19:57 tenplus1 spent the last few hours setting up a bluetooth pedal on ipad... *shudder* 19:57 Shara Ekk 19:58 Shara I've been fussing with mods a lot 19:58 tenplus1 what ya working on ? 19:58 Shara SOmeone opened an issue on my fire mod, but figured it out already 19:58 tenplus1 I tested the slab opening door bug that's in latest dev... thankfully it doesnt happen with doors/stairs redo :P 19:58 sofar that bug is in builtin I believe 19:59 Shara Hi sofar 19:59 Jordach meow 19:59 tenplus1 hi sofar 19:59 tenplus1 hi Jordach 19:59 sofar but, if you're not using the fine_pointed API you're safe 19:59 Shara meow Jordach 19:59 Krock tenplus1, because your redo doesn't use the new builtin function yes 19:59 Krock *yet 19:59 tenplus1 hi Krock, exactly :DDD 19:59 Krock damn it sofar. Always these ninjas 19:59 tenplus1 keepin it simple 19:59 * sofar swooshes away behind a puff of smoke, coughing 20:00 tenplus1 I bet that smoke is cms particles :PPP 20:00 sofar right, so nobody else sees them, lmao 20:00 tenplus1 ehehe 20:00 Shara sofar: thanks for the skybox links yesterday. Found at least one there I'm going to use :) 20:01 tenplus1 been checking those out, they look so beautiful... does it lag changing skybox on servers tho ? 20:01 Shara This one: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/thebox_sky_night.png 20:01 sofar no 20:01 sofar it's just a tiny packet to the client 20:01 tenplus1 w00t!... it adds a lot to the game having beautiful skies :P 20:02 sofar of course, textures do need to be loaded on startup 20:02 tenplus1 how big did you get the images down to ? 20:02 Shara Still considering this one: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/thebox_sky_desert_mountains.png 20:02 sofar 17mb for all 6 combined 20:02 tenplus1 oof 20:02 sofar the largest set is 5mb 20:02 Shara That's pretty big still 20:02 sofar the smallest one is ... *checks* 20:03 tenplus1 will it replace mt's own sunset/sunrise gradients by using them ? 20:03 sofar 1.1M total 20:03 sofar yes, you lose *all* sky elements entirely 20:03 tenplus1 aw 20:03 Jordach whatcha doin, sofar 20:03 sofar no moon, no sun, no clouds 20:03 Shara I got the night sky one there too... about 450kb 20:04 Shara to* 20:04 * Jordach coughs 20:04 Jordach something something stellar api 20:04 Jordach something something transparent skyboxes 20:04 tenplus1 api's are fun 20:04 * nore wants 20:04 tenplus1 hi nore 20:04 nore hey all btw :) 20:04 Jordach or even just allow skyboxes to be paletted by the dynamic colours 20:04 Shara Hi nore :) 20:04 sofar I've been doing OSS too long, I know that small steps are needed to make big changes 20:04 Jordach sofar, Y O L O 20:04 tenplus1 heh 20:05 sofar yes, but, in my lifetime I aim to achieve major differences by making small contributions in the right way over time 20:05 sofar not "go for bust" and achieve nothing 20:05 tenplus1 +1 for small changes... it all adds up 20:06 Hijiri if you're dictator you can freeze development for your totally great overhaul change 20:06 tenplus1 hi Hijiri 20:06 Hijiri hi 20:06 * tenplus1 wonders if Kim Jong Un has his own minetest clone ?!?! o.O 20:07 Hijiri I joined this channel so I would have more irc logs to burn time on reading 20:07 Krock Hijiri, you should consider burning time by submitting features and bugfixes for Minetest :P 20:08 sofar any *serious* server operators online willing to discuss a proposal? 20:08 Hijiri ah yeah I've been pretty inactive, even in modding 20:09 Shara sofar: define 'serious' 20:09 sofar willing to pay 1$ to make their servers load faster for players. 20:09 Krock #define serious "SELECT * FROM users WHERE server_skills > -1" 20:10 * tenplus1 ran ALL textures through 'optipng -o9 -strip all *.png' and it definitely loads faster :D 20:10 Shara did same and moved to remote media and... yea. Been fine since 20:11 sofar how about a shared CDN for *all* media from many servers 20:11 sofar automatically updated regularly 20:11 sofar hosted all across the world on various professional CDNs 20:11 Shara I just use what TPS has for it 20:11 sofar so they don't even hit *your* media server 20:11 tenplus1 if sound sets could be loaded locally like textures it would save a lot of server load 20:11 Krock tenplus1, storage-wise there's no change due to sector size but there will be indeed less data to send over the pipe 20:11 Shara So I don't use my own media server. 20:12 sofar yes but how does TPS get *your* textures? 20:12 Shara I have access. 20:12 sofar who else does? 20:12 Shara RobbieF 20:12 Shara Since he owns TPS. 20:12 tenplus1 tps skyblock looks real nice with john smith texture pack :D 20:12 sofar so what if I want to use it? 20:13 sofar or *randomjoe* 20:13 sofar it's costing robbief now (I'm sure he pays for it some way) 20:13 sofar and when he leaves, it's gone? 20:13 sofar besides he doesn't have a CDN 20:14 sofar just just has *a* media server 20:14 Shara Since I'm on the TPS team and have been working closely with them for a very long time now, I'm not too worried about it. 20:14 sofar a CDN would be a lot faster for everyone 20:14 sofar and probably cheaper in the end 20:14 Shara Pretty sure it is actually, but can't check things right now 20:15 sofar plus we can open it for everyone 20:15 sofar accelerating everyone's servers 20:16 tenplus1 question... do clients load all textures from a server or does it already use default textures (not texture pack) ? 20:17 sofar good question 20:17 tenplus1 I'd rather not load default textures from a server if they already exist on hdd 20:17 tenplus1 *cough* ssd 20:17 Jordach isn;t that the point of cache 20:17 Jordach tenplus? 20:17 sofar I'm assuming it doesn't load unneeded textures 20:18 tenplus1 my cache folder is always empty... nothing is saved there 20:18 sofar that's what the media cache is for 20:18 sofar ~/.cache/minetest/media 20:18 sofar 350M+ in there for me 20:18 tenplus1 .minetest/cache <-- empty 20:18 Shara Mine's always got stuff 20:18 sofar that's old, no longer used 20:19 sofar the .minetest/cache folder is not the right location 20:19 tenplus1 ooh 20:19 tenplus1 got 355mb... ouch! 20:19 tenplus1 didnt realise it changed location 20:21 sofar oh 20:21 sofar I know 20:21 sofar robbief uses cdnjs 20:23 Shara My creative used to suffer if I had many connections at once, up until I moved stuff 20:23 Shara so it definitely helps 20:24 Shara but reducing media size helped a lot too 20:25 sofar so anyway, I'm thinking we should get a collective CDN for everyone who runs a server 20:25 Shara most slow loading servers I encounter have a ridiculous number of mods 20:25 sofar and allow server admins to upload media for inclusion 20:25 tenplus1 true, they add all sorts in the hope of making a better server, not realising it slows things down 20:26 Jordach use github as a media server :^) 20:26 sofar github isn't a CDN 20:28 tenplus1 hi rubenwardy 20:29 benrob0329 Hi rubenwardy, tenplus1, Jordach, sofar, Shara, Krock 20:29 Shara Hi benrob0329 20:29 Krock hi benrob0329 20:30 Calinou hi benrob0329 20:30 benrob0329 Hi Calinou 20:31 tenplus1 hi ben 20:41 sofar I'm fairly sure I could build a service that allows minetest server operators to have a professional CDN for all their media 20:41 sofar and even auto-update it regularly 20:41 * tenplus1 has an old Amiga 500 he uses as a media server :PPPP 20:41 sofar giving everyone the fastest possible login times 20:41 sofar tenplus1: but the guy in australia gets it from your server 20:41 sofar the idea of a CDN is that it's in australia already 20:42 tenplus1 :P 20:42 sofar wherever the player is 20:42 sofar not where you are 20:42 sofar all server owners would have to do is 20:42 sofar set a media url to the CDN 20:42 sofar and register their server with the bit that syncs their game server with it 20:44 Fixer current mood: http://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/12357700_464469330405959_1963486238_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTEzNzMwMzY5MjA2NDM3NjIzNA%3D%3D.2 20:47 tenplus1 when mt caches media, does it unpack images or leave them as compressed png ? 20:48 paramat https://github.com/paramat/snowdrift is now a snowfall / rainfall weather mod with sound and overcast cloud. matched to biomes of all non-mgv6 mapgens 20:49 Shara paramat: blue or grey rain now? :P 20:49 tenplus1 nite all :P 20:53 Fixer nice 20:53 Fixer will try 20:57 paramat very pale blue, textures may be improved 21:00 Shara paramat: hmm, might try to use it for something 21:01 sofar paramat: could look nice with one of the dark skyboxes 21:01 Shara sofar: you're reading my mind 21:11 Fixer paramat: very few particles 21:16 paramat only a plain colour skybox can smoothly change brightness across day-nght transitions 21:17 nore paramat: semi-transparent skyboxes + background 21:17 paramat that's the special feature 21:17 nore well that would make smooth changes 21:18 paramat skybox has an alpha parameter but in testing it doesn't make the plain colour translucent unfortunately 21:19 Shara I wasn't even able to vary colour on default skybox while keeping sun/moon when I checked before. 21:20 paramat i wouldn't use those real-life photo skyboxes anyway, they are beautiful sky photos yes, but look wrong in MT 21:20 Shara depends what you're aiming for 21:21 paramat maybe with HD photo-realistic textures 21:21 benrob0329 Just got done visiting thr Creation 21:21 benrob0329 *Creation Museum 21:22 benrob0329 Highly recommended, including the planetarium 21:24 Fixer paramat: if under tree there is no precip rendered at all 21:28 paramat hehe 21:28 Fixer paramat: 16/32 particles is a joke 21:28 paramat the big problem with weather mods is, how to detect when outside? 21:29 paramat this samples light level, 15 = outside 21:29 paramat with the funny result that it stops raining when you go inside 21:30 sofar nore: we just need to write a 'transition' api 21:30 benrob0329 But it should rain out the window 21:30 benrob0329 Perhaps if rain was per mapblock 21:30 nore sofar: hmmm 21:30 paramat MT particles are not very lightweight, so number of particles is set to a minimum by default, you can adjust that 21:31 nore I was thinking maybe about allowing to set the sky color texture as well 21:31 nore (the texture that maps time to color) 21:31 Fixer paramat: tried 64 particles, somewhat better but with snow fps goes down to 55... 21:32 benrob0329 Wait, what if the airblock was just modified? 21:32 paramat yeah ideally collision detection should be on, then maybe sample light high above the player (above the roof) 21:33 paramat now you know why i minimised number of particles :] 21:33 nerzhul for weather part, don't do it server side, it should be fully implemeted client side, and best: use shaders and detect if a player is outside or not 21:33 benrob0329 If light level == 15, and raining == true, texture = raining_animated 21:35 paramat yeah i know CSM will be good for weather, but i'm working with current stable MT abilities, and my mods are always written for last stable 21:35 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/FgCRjuI.jpg game from 2001 can into particles hitting fps cap (30 fps), minetest in 2017 on core i3 can't render damn 64 particles without huge penalty 21:35 paramat i will never rely on shaders, too much performance drain, many turn them off completely 21:36 benrob0329 MT needs help from experienced OGL programmers 21:36 paramat yes our particles need work, and irrlicht particles are needed 21:36 benrob0329 Shaders could be just as fast as fixed, if they were optimized 21:37 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/SXv3kcj.jpg year 2001 21:38 * benrob0329 mumbles about asking the Antarctica devs for help 21:38 Fixer and i played this 16 years ago on that hardware 21:38 Fixer 900mhz cpu and gf2mx 21:39 benrob0329 Heh, Source Engine particles arw better 21:39 Fixer this screenshot alone has _hundreds_ of particles 21:41 Fixer close to 300 21:42 Fixer around 280 for rain 21:47 Fixer "How to run Microsoft Edge on Windows 7" 21:47 benrob0329 *facedesk* 21:52 Fixer "RebootBlocker is a free program for Windows 10 that prevents automatic reboots after the installation of updates on Windows 10 systems." 21:53 Fixer you gotta be kidding me /o 21:53 benrob0329 Heh 22:04 Fixer reminder https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9WP6YkU0AEGXsl.jpg:large 22:24 paramat forum spammer https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=21013 VanessaE Calinou 22:29 benrob0329 So many people complaining about the name.. 22:29 benrob0329 I don't think they realise how difficult and painful a name change is 22:42 Jordach >Jabber:asdasdasda.fasfasfdasdasd@yandex.ru 22:42 Jordach top keks 23:14 Fixer lol 23:19 Calinou paramat: done 23:20 Calinou benrob0329: trying this out btw, https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Knee-Deep_in_ZDoom 23:20 Calinou they actually put… a trailer in the game 23:20 Calinou quite impressive, I didn't know this was possible 23:21 Calinou dynamic skybox, slopes, etc 23:21 benrob0329 Calinou: interesting 23:21 Calinou seems to work ok in Zandronum 23:21 Calinou (it's a multiplayer-oriented ZDoom fork) 23:21 Calinou too lazy to install GZDoom :P 23:22 Calinou there's also security cameras à la Duke Nukem 3D, nice 23:27 Fixer paramat: why rain drops are so slow? 23:27 Fixer paramat: increase their falling speed a bit 23:27 Fixer paramat: no sound fading :( 23:28 Fixer paramat: particles do not respect your move, when i move towards them, there is no drift to me 23:29 Fixer paramat: are there weather variability or it depends on biomes only? 23:29 Fixer paramat: snow/rain particles look a bit large 23:29 Fixer paramat: especially snow 23:29 paramat thanks 23:30 paramat particles are relative to the world not to the player 23:31 Fixer right, but then if i move they should go closer to me, yet they are relative to player it feels 23:31 Fixer maybe i'm wrong 23:31 paramat they do move towards you if you move forwards 23:31 paramat raindrop speed is realistic but looks slow for some reason, but 10 might be better 23:32 paramat sound fading may be possible, i might try 23:32 Fixer not related https://i.imgur.com/ZtniAtX.jpg 23:33 paramat precipitation does start and stop with time, as well as being affected by temp and humidity 23:34 paramat particle pixels are matched to world pixels, so to have an interesting structure snowflakes have to be large 23:37 Fixer if i increase velocity to -32 i can see they come in batches 23:37 Fixer for rain* 23:38 Fixer paramat: precipitation for the poor 23:40 paramat yes due to the 0.5s globalstep cycle 23:40 paramat you could reduce the cycle time instead 23:40 paramat GSCYCLE 23:40 paramat -10 is a rough max for real rain 23:41 Fixer eh... waiting for CSM weather with lots of particles :) 23:41 paramat particles need work first 23:42 Jordach paramat, is there an engine call for sky_visible(pos) 23:42 benrob0329 Particles_redo >:-) 23:43 Fixer paramat: seeing 32 slow rain particles makes me very depressing since no good rains IRL 23:50 Jordach paramat, >local outside = minetest.get_node_light(ppos, 0.5) == 15 23:50 Jordach *nice* 23:50 * Jordach figured out a possible way of safe spawning 23:51 Jordach >random x,y position 23:51 Jordach >send that with +-32 on all pos.x/y/z 23:51 Jordach >use minetest.emerge_area() 23:51 Jordach >wait a few seconds 23:51 Jordach >then do checks at the center area 23:53 paramat there's no sky_visible API, but light = 15 means under open sky