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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-04-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:21 zorman2000 joined #minetest-hub
01:07 Shara Think I have the change for fire working, but I'll look at it again tomorrow before making the PR.
02:41 epoch joined #minetest-hub
05:43 octacian Night all
05:47 lumidify joined #minetest-hub
06:02 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
06:17 CWz joined #minetest-hub
06:27 TommyTreasure joined #minetest-hub
07:04 nrzkt joined #minetest-hub
07:20 Dumbeldor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=​M77hIOd0kf8&feature=youtu.be
07:20 Dumbeldor :)
07:24 sofar knockback?
07:24 sofar csm or?
07:26 Dumbeldor Develop server-side
07:27 sofar is it an API that can be modified? e.g. larger knockback or disabled?
07:35 nrzkt sofar: it seems it's the early stage, but seems interesting, i think Dumbeldor you should add an argument to punch (in lua and cpp) to define the powerness of the punch
07:36 sofar toolcap?
08:02 nrzkt joined #minetest-hub
08:36 Krock joined #minetest-hub
08:36 Krock o/
08:38 nrzkt hi Krock
08:39 Krock hello nrzkt
08:39 red-001 hello
09:02 Krock red-001, for you as a modder: what do you think about nodes that can reduce or increase the damage tolerance when a player collides with them?
09:03 Krock currently only would affect fall damage
09:03 sfan5 just add it
09:04 Krock lol
09:04 sfan5 even if you can't think of anything modders will find use for it
09:04 Krock okay then ^^
09:08 nrzkt joined #minetest-hub
09:12 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
09:34 Krock lolwhat. regular gravity is handled two times in clientenvironment and once in collion that makes it result in regular gravity
09:35 Krock but my calculations still show that there's somewhere a factor of 2 hidden
09:46 Calinou joined #minetest-hub
10:12 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:12 Krock o/ Fixer
10:15 Fixer hi
10:44 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
11:22 rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub
11:25 lumidify joined #minetest-hub
12:30 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
12:44 Jordach Fixer, http://i.imgur.com/IHqXx55.jpg
12:52 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
12:53 * Megaf searches for tenplus11
12:53 Megaf 404
12:53 * Megaf looks at Shara
12:53 Megaf 403
12:53 Jordach you mean tenplus394
12:53 * Megaf refreshes
12:53 Megaf 503
12:54 Megaf Jordach, I mean,
12:54 * Megaf crashes
12:54 Megaf ...Rebooting
12:55 * Megaf waits
12:55 Megaf HI everyone, good morning
12:59 Jordach >2 PM UTC+0
12:59 Jordach megaf pls
13:00 red-001 lol
13:11 Megaf Jordach, G'Day sir.
13:12 Megaf I found a new way of calling 10+1. Because I used 11 too much already.
13:12 Megaf So I need him here
13:13 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
13:16 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
13:16 Megaf My battery is at 4%, he better come soon
13:18 Megaf And this channel is growing
13:19 Megaf !tell Megaf this is a test
13:19 ShadowBot Megaf: O.K.
13:20 Megaf !tell tenplus1 Hello onety-one, what's up?
13:20 ShadowBot Megaf: O.K.
13:20 * Megaf quietly runs out of battery
13:23 rubenwardy oh, lol
13:23 rubenwardy https://minetest.org/
13:24 rubenwardy Interest has been expressed in the issue of the MT trademark. (...) One core dev, in particular, has been aggressive. So, decisions that don't go through the core devs, and the core devs alone, are considered to be inappropriate. Or, to use Andrew's logic, “dick-ish”.
13:25 rubenwardy referring to me by my real firstname
13:25 rubenwardy I'm so terrified /s
13:25 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> Your years of contribution change the fact that you're being a dick
13:26 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> (...) trying to do a hostile takeover (ie: registering trademarks) is  being a dick
13:27 Calinou I knew that this guy was a complete joke when I first saw him, in 2012
13:27 rubenwardy He's just so irration
13:27 rubenwardy *irrational
13:27 Calinou sometimes, making assumptions about people is a good thing :P
13:28 rubenwardy anyone talking against him "needs to grow up" and "is dog piling" him
13:33 nerzhul rubenwardy: in fact he missed just law, minetest is owned by its core contributors, then he failed :)
13:33 rubenwardy yeah
13:34 nerzhul best is just to ignore him, for the .org maybe we should take the DNS domain name by any meaning as he just do bad propaganda to project
13:34 rubenwardy Minetest is the source code and intellectual property, predominantly owned by c55. The source code is also partially owned by other contributors
13:34 rubenwardy the Minetest community is separate legally
13:36 rubenwardy my point is that even if he spoke on behalf of the community (which he has no right to) he still doesn't have a claim
13:45 VanessaE I don't like to disparage anyone, but OC's attitude lately has been beyond "disappointing".
13:47 Jordach it seems like i might have to end up doing MT full time again
13:51 kilbith joined #minetest-hub
13:52 Jordach hello jp_
13:52 kilbith heyo
13:59 Zeno` [on] tl;dr minetest has no community management and project management
13:59 Zeno` heh
14:00 nerzhul yohe
14:00 shivajiva he doesn't have a claim other than in his mind, somewhere he is never wrong, so any discussion seems futile and servers to justify his actions it seems :/
14:00 shivajiva *serves
14:01 Fixer i'm disappointed on how this ended, it should not be like that imp
14:01 Fixer imp=imo
14:02 Fixer if thats about sneak, sneak will be readded in some way as classical move code or smth
14:02 shivajiva it's clearly not about sneak, that was a trigger
14:04 shivajiva seems to be about what 5 years earns you in terms of respect and ownership
14:05 rubenwardy this isn't rent-to-buy
14:05 VanessaE as I said before, the rest of us as a team have all the claim there is on the name.
14:05 shivajiva rubenwardy: ikr
14:05 VanessaE every one of us here who has contributed to the engine or mt_game has a stake in this fight (though some moreso that others, of course)
14:06 Jordach wat
14:06 * Jordach resizes Winamp 5.x
14:06 * Jordach noticed windows 9x window rescaling in action
14:09 Fixer Jordach: you can still have that in newer windows
14:09 Fixer somewhere in options iirc
14:09 Jordach Fixer, moreover; in windows 10, the 9X style UI is entirely removed
14:09 Jordach including it's asscociated libraries
14:09 Fixer Jordach: not quite, there are hacks to make it classic again, at least for 8
14:10 Jordach Fixer, far more difficult on W10
14:10 rubenwardy what's 9x window rescaling?
14:10 Jordach rubenwardy, the window rescales when you stop dragging
14:11 rubenwardy as in, it only actually rescales when you stop dragging an edge, or it rescales if you move the window to the edge of the screen?
14:11 Jordach >it only actually rescales when you stop dragging an edge
14:11 rubenwardy yeah, that would be very odd
14:11 Fixer rubenwardy: it draws just border and rescales window after mouse release
14:11 rubenwardy but removing the latter would also be odd
14:11 rubenwardy ah, ok
14:12 Jordach rubenwardy, the 9x ui is entirely gone now
14:12 Jordach Winamp 5.x seems to have a library that contains part of it
14:12 Fixer Jordach: how do even get winxp theme on shit10?
14:12 Jordach Fixer, patched UXThemes
14:13 Fixer Jordach: it does not accept win2k classic theme?
14:13 Jordach nope
14:13 Fixer too bad
14:13 Fixer rip windows
14:14 Jordach Server 2016 appears to contain it
14:14 Jordach but even then, that's emergency support of there isn't an IGP
14:14 Fixer Jordach: some russian did that with w8 https://i.stack.imgur.com/iICV9.png
14:14 Jordach Fixer, it was partially removed in 8.x
14:15 Jordach 10.x removed it with the improved CMD terminal
14:16 Fixer and this looks like total pooop http://img15.deviantart.net/fc21/i/​2015/254/e/5/classic_on_windows_10_​build_10532_by_kizo2703-d9961wh.png
14:17 * Fixer pukes in his soup
14:17 Jordach Fixer, likewise, it's entirely gone
14:17 Jordach (in tl;dr you don't need it as most modern devices contain a reasonable DX9 compatible IGP)
14:17 Fixer fuck it anyway, i'm staying on win7 up to 202X for sure
14:17 Krock joined #minetest-hub
14:18 Fixer i have dx11 card, it is not a problem
14:19 Fixer there is hope http://forum.thinkpads.com/vi​ewtopic.php?f=67&amp;t=113024 http://winclassic.boards.net/
14:20 shivajiva wow windows got ugly since I abandoned it xD
14:20 VanessaE bbl
14:21 Fixer shivajiva: it started since XP
14:21 Fixer shivajiva: but xp, vista, 7 at least had a classic theme available
14:21 shivajiva yea I managed all the way to 7 before I bailed
14:22 Fixer only thing that will get me to win10 is uncrapified version of it, with all BS removed, without telemetry, forced updates and classic theme (if possible)
14:22 Fixer i will think about it like somewhere in mid 202X
14:22 Fixer that will be of course hacked enterprise version
14:22 Jordach Fixer, consider W10 Pro
14:23 Fixer Jordach: W10 Enterprise will all crap removed
14:23 Jordach (i use it with various lobotomising features)
14:23 Jordach Fixer, read; legitimate pro x64 key
14:23 Fixer Jordach: pro still has telemetry and forced updates
14:23 Fixer Jordach: nobody in their minds here buys windows
14:23 Jordach >not filitered out by ASUS router firewall
14:23 shivajiva users have been throwing the crap out since XP anyway so I presume that will never end
14:23 Fixer thats shitty workarounds
14:24 Fixer shivajiva: i don't remember throwing away much crap in Win7 apart from deregistering uxgame.dll thing due to decades old bug ms won't fix
14:24 Fixer i remember in win xp for sure
14:24 Fixer now it seems w10 is back to sex times
14:24 Fixer sex with os
14:25 Fixer decrapifying os
14:25 Fixer tweaks and all that crap again
14:25 Fixer fighting with ms
14:25 Fixer telemetry is a red line
14:26 Jordach Fixer, i wouldn't worry about it
14:26 Fixer what is worrying is insistence of ms about telemetry and selling your data
14:26 Jordach Fixer, the tech bubble is bursting again in a few years
14:27 octacian joined #minetest-hub
14:27 Jordach people won't want Windows or OS X
14:27 Fixer Jordach: for sure, I'm amazed when looking at valuation of US tech companies, it is enormous, even shit like twitter
14:27 Jordach Fixer, tl;dr Linux will get it's year
14:27 Fixer it has huge valuation just on investor perception but thats total bullshit
14:27 shivajiva Fixer: true enough, all I seemed to do was install endless .net framework updates in 7
14:28 Fixer enterprise must have a proper revenue and such, not just bunch of assholes with shares
14:28 Jordach Fixer, there's a reason why meshnets will eventually become the norm
14:28 Fixer shivajiva: it seems to die down a lot
14:28 Fixer shivajiva: have not received such updates for a long time
14:29 Fixer also, my win7 clone is 2015-12-23, thats a bit outdated, time to prepare for next clone, for fast restore, just in case
14:29 Fixer nobody in their mind will use windows update on win7
14:29 Fixer it is huge mess
14:30 Fixer you need literally many hours to update win7sp1 to newest state, or use that rollout package (but it has telemetry included), there is other option to merge updates into ISO itself, or predownload them via special tool
14:30 Fixer i go with cloning anyway
14:31 Fixer 10 minutes and system is back to normal in case of emergancy
14:31 Fixer size of clone is about 30 gig
14:31 Fixer using clonezilla
14:36 Jordach Fixer, linux will be a standard OS in a few years once people realise that W10 and OS X are two sides of the same shit coin
14:36 Jordach think NOOBS for RPI but for choosing DE, etc
14:37 Fixer Jordach: doubt it
14:37 Jordach Fixer, think about it
14:37 Jordach since Vulkan, DX12 is useless
14:37 Jordach there will be a revolution soon
14:37 Fixer Jordach: if your business infrastructure in cloud - you can pretty much nuke windows
14:37 Fixer sorry for cloud
14:37 Fixer i mean hosted on server
14:37 Jordach Fixer, and that is the case *now*
14:38 Fixer yep
14:38 Fixer no need to deal with this bullshit
14:38 Jordach FOSS projects like owncloud, LibOff, etc will likely become standard globally like ASCII email
14:38 Fixer Jordach: read how MS is forcing IT departments to suck their dick with mindless updating windows version, big race of updates in sake of updates, no other options, just suck it or else
14:39 Fixer IT departments must be prepared for BLABLAWin10blabla
14:39 Jordach Fixer, tl;dr IT departments are already hating MS for making imaging W10 practically illegal
14:39 Fixer i'm not MS personal army
14:39 Fixer who cares about fucking MS
14:39 Jordach it won't be long before some form of Debian or Arch becomes standard
14:39 Fixer we had Win98SE at work like year ago
14:39 Fixer and it was pirated ofc because fuck microsoft anyway
14:40 Fixer and it worked, office duties and such
14:40 Fixer no hipster bullshit that breaks after 1 year of use
14:40 Jordach Fixer, it's likely a Linux desktop and DE will become standard soonish
14:41 Jordach that checks the boxes for a normal person unlike W10
14:41 Fixer Jordach: still doubt it
14:41 Jordach Fixer, no ads, no spyware etc
14:41 Jordach it needs a NOOBS like installation system
14:41 Fixer Jordach: windows is much OEM, people are reluctant to moove
14:41 Fixer to really make them move to other OS you need to be total dick
14:41 Fixer megadick
14:41 Jordach Fixer, my laptop manufacturer (HP) provided my laptop with the latest LTS of Ubuntu
14:42 Fixer like not only telemetry but FULL ADS, FULL DATA ACCESS and sale, per month pay
14:42 Fixer Jordach: and we have laptops with freedos ;)
14:42 Fixer to install any os you like
14:42 Jordach freedos is fine if you're doing basic stuff
14:43 Fixer nah, everyone just installs pirated w7 on it
14:43 Jordach Fixer, eventually IT will just be a Linux DE (skinned to look like 95/98) with standard toolkits
14:43 Jordach and that;s all people ever need
14:43 Jordach if you want games steam already supports linux
14:44 Jordach (and does the legwork of installing the needed libraries through the package manager too)
14:44 Fixer i still remember win7/8/10 epic printing fail bug, thats "enterprise" O/S for you
14:44 Fixer and os checking for updates for hours using 1 core
14:44 Fixer "enterprise"
14:44 Fixer "stable"
14:45 Fixer ms tried to fix that bug for years, and it is not even funny anymore, sad
14:45 Fixer i have no idea where we going, but future seems somewhat shitty
14:46 Fixer every asshole wants my privacy/data/whatever for some reason, everyone wants to bend me, right to repair and such
14:46 rubenwardy most non-technical users don't give a shit about privacy
14:46 Fixer and they use facebook where they publish their private life and data
14:46 rubenwardy and most technical users like OS X too much
14:47 Jordach rubenwardy, only app developers use OS X ;)
14:47 Fixer rubenwardy: apple is too anal and for gays to be honest
14:47 rubenwardy err what?
14:47 shivajiva oml
14:47 Fixer apple is not much good alternative for windows
14:47 Jordach rubenwardy, apple doesn't want Vulkan or OGL
14:47 Jordach it ahs to be "Metal"
14:47 Jordach aka for faggots
14:47 Fixer same autoritarian company with users having no say
14:47 rubenwardy that's a bit homophobic
14:47 Jordach welcome to the internet
14:47 Fixer kek
14:48 rubenwardy that does excuse it
14:48 rubenwardy *doesn't
14:48 Fixer ok, not for gays
14:48 Fixer for "think different" kind of people
14:48 Fixer in bad way
14:48 Fixer religious way
14:49 rubenwardy yeah, the cult of mac
14:49 Fixer yep
14:50 Krock It's also a cult that there are Linux vs Windows discussions on IRC very often
14:50 Fixer Jordach: i don't care about vulkan or dx12 tbh, todays 50GB games are little to much for my harddrive
14:51 rubenwardy yeah, linux is also probably a 'cult' in a different way
14:51 Fixer yes
14:51 Fixer but at least you have some kind of choice in linux worlds
14:51 Fixer in apple/ms you eat shit you like it or not
14:51 Jordach Fixer, i expect there to be "tiered" linux installs
14:52 Jordach one for normies with macbooks or netbooks
14:52 Fixer "normies"
14:52 Fixer TRIGGERED
14:52 Jordach but that will be the cse
14:53 shivajiva whenever there is choice we get discussion, Linux is just to technical for the masses imo but it's bridging the gap slowly as time passes
14:53 Fixer Jordach: you can move off large parts of population to shitablets, since all they need is facebook, few pics, and some stuff, for real work or uni you can get a PC/notebook
14:53 rubenwardy at most of the problems I've had on Linux are my own fault
14:53 rubenwardy *were
14:54 Fixer shivajiva: i have a bad news for you, windows is also too technical for everyone
14:54 rubenwardy *at least
14:54 Jordach rubenwardy, Fixer: the RPI's NOOBs distro is perfect for idiots
14:55 Fixer when people can register their email in year 2017 or don't even know whats the login is about
14:55 Fixer windows does not even have a tutorial
14:55 Fixer iirc
14:55 Fixer same for android shit
14:55 Fixer how i'm supposed to know those swipes & shit
14:55 Fixer furiosly randomly moving with my fingers?
14:56 Fixer Jordach: they are not idiots, people just don't interest in this, like i'm not interest in car or house repair
14:56 Fixer there are very few experts in any field of life
14:56 Jordach Fixer, NOOBs has prebuilt modes to turn it into a xmbc server, router etc
14:56 Jordach all pre-configured
14:56 Jordach why not for a standard desktop or laptop
14:57 Fixer Jordach: whats the router? :trollface:
14:57 Jordach basically installs browser and office stuff and that's it for normies, developers can get their IDEs etc
14:57 Fixer linux already has everything "normies" need
14:57 Fixer browser, office, music, video, some popular games
14:58 Fixer true gamers still use windows because of big libraries
14:58 Fixer there are lots of legacy software
14:58 Fixer on win
14:58 Fixer if that gets thrown out eventually, that will be perfect time to dump win forever
14:58 rubenwardy Fixer, swipes aren't that important on Android. Except maybe the refresh
14:59 rubenwardy from my experience of material design at least
14:59 Fixer rubenwardy: but still buyer needs some kind of tutorial, i understand, even monkey can do this, but still there must be a tutorial, it is not that hard
14:59 shivajiva hmm I bought a gaming mouse and had to compile a custom kernel but other than that I think everything else problem wise was a product of my tinkering with Linux
14:59 rubenwardy yeah, in early versions there was tutorials
14:59 rubenwardy *were
15:00 Fixer early phone concept was easy, you have a numbers to press, call button and hung button, very simple
15:00 Fixer you type numbers and call, talk, hang, end of story
15:00 Jordach rubenwardy, my phone is downloading it's OTA Nougat update
15:01 rubenwardy :O
15:01 Fixer my phone is not downloading, andr 2.2.3 iirc
15:01 Jordach since cyanogen died, we've been stuck in marshmellow limbo
15:01 rubenwardy Wish my phone could OTA update
15:01 Fixer where is my update, samsung?
15:01 rubenwardy or at least get Nougat
15:01 Jordach my OEM absorbed half of cyanogen
15:02 Jordach and has qualcomm fast charge 3 with usb type C
15:02 Fixer heck, i have lenovo tablet with 4.4.2, where is my Nougat shit or smth
15:02 Fixer it is just few years old
15:02 Fixer you don't think i will buy new one?
15:02 Fixer i will not, sorry
15:02 Fixer will buy a new battery for it
15:02 Fixer when it starts to die down
15:02 Fixer same for 5 years old phone
15:02 Fixer battery is like 5 $
15:02 rubenwardy lol, 4.4.2 is the oldest Android version we support in most projects at work
15:02 Fixer dirt cheap
15:02 rubenwardy api 19
15:03 Fixer rubenwardy: sorry, no update from lenovo, buy a new one, ofc
15:03 Fixer how is economy gonna run if you don't buy a new junk?
15:03 Jordach Fixer, rubenwardy: my OEM provided nougat to it's phone released in 2015
15:03 Fixer same with china-quality shit
15:03 Jordach (it included all phones they've released)
15:03 Fixer door handle that breaks, i've seen everything
15:04 Fixer you use no metal in door handles? wtf?
15:04 Fixer Jordach: miracle
15:04 Jordach Fixer, they're a british OEM specifically
15:04 Fixer Jordach: most of manufacturers, well... just dump you, buy a new one (tm)
15:05 Fixer i'm still not here to feed the neigbourhood
15:05 Jordach Fixer, the original had a removable battery and dual sims
15:05 Fixer wasting money on junk
15:05 Jordach (with 2 LTE antennas)
15:05 Fixer Jordach: removable battery is key
15:05 Jordach the new version is basically the same but with a battery that doesn't fall over every 8 hours
15:05 Fixer even with unremovable you probably can unsolder it
15:05 Fixer here in Ukraine you can find that guy that will replace it for cheap
15:06 Jordach Fixer, the body is unibody aluminium
15:06 Jordach on the second edition
15:06 Jordach it has two mini torx security screws and it slides apart
15:06 Fixer Jordach: is not aluminium is kinda weak metal?
15:06 Jordach Fixer, it's far stronger than that
15:06 Jordach it's some reinforced stuff
15:07 Fixer Jordach: they have too, how you gonna carry that oversized break in your pockets?
15:07 Fixer oh, i understand
15:07 Jordach Size (mm) 143.7 x 71.9 x 8.6
15:07 Fixer now clothes manufacturers need to make larger pockets :trollface:
15:08 Fixer Jordach: thats a brick for sure
15:08 Jordach Fixer, it's thin af
15:08 Fixer don't care about thin
15:09 Jordach it's a 5'' display
15:09 Fixer i want battery life
15:09 Jordach Fixer, idles for like 4-5 days with me
15:09 Fixer not this shit that lives 1 day from battery
15:10 Fixer also, powerbank, nice work - crapeconomy
15:11 Fixer when you can't add a good battery, you end up with this crap
15:11 Jordach ah, so your adidas pockets are too small then
15:11 Jordach Kappa
15:11 Fixer ._.
15:11 Jordach Fixer, i use my phone like a pager
15:11 Jordach it's generally unused until i check it once or twice a day
15:11 Fixer Jordach: i want small phone with android with big battery, where is it? :trollface:
15:11 Jordach Fixer, nowhere
15:12 Fixer yep
15:12 Fixer invisible hand tm
15:12 Jordach i've seen a samsung battery and case mod for a huge battery
15:12 Jordach but it becomes a goddamn nokia brick in the process
15:12 Fixer same obsession with black colour everywhere
15:12 Jordach Fixer, my phone is mint coloured
15:13 Jordach (some blue/green mix)
15:13 Fixer some kitchen stuff is white, anything else has big obsession with black for some reason
15:13 Fixer and glance
15:13 Fixer less dirt?
15:13 Fixer but tons of visible dust
15:13 Fixer fail
15:13 Jordach Fixer, there's a reason why i don't use my phone for music anymore
15:14 Fixer Jordach: 3.5mm jack?
15:14 Fixer is removed?
15:14 Jordach Fixer, no, since i bought one of the highest end walkmans ever produced i can't go back to standard MP3
15:14 Fixer ah
15:14 Fixer thats different
15:14 Fixer 3.5mm jack is removed in some phones, and i'm very worried
15:14 Jordach currently on a waiting list, there's one person in Italy who can upgrade it's electronics
15:15 Jordach to an even better performing state
15:15 Fixer i can only imagine the meating on "How can we piss off everyone even more? We will remove 3.5mm because well it is old, and we want more money from you, want to sell adapters, and just fuck everybody"
15:16 Fixer Jordach: can you even buy casettes today? whats the price?
15:16 Jordach Fixer, cheap af
15:16 Jordach ebay has been my source of pre-recorded, and my current deck is a Teac R-H300
15:16 Jordach ~£6 per single pre-rec
15:17 Jordach those charity shops have been bust to find them
15:17 Fixer ooooh, expensive
15:17 Fixer too expensive
15:17 Jordach Fixer, i'm fearing the 28th of this month
15:17 benrob0329 Antergos is nice, you have options for DE and software on install.
15:18 Fixer Jordach: reason?
15:18 Jordach guardians of the galaxy 2 is coming out
15:18 Jordach RIP buying non-working walkmans
15:19 Jordach but i damn well know marvel will release the soundtrack on cassette like they did before
15:20 WhoAreYou joined #minetest-hub
15:20 Fixer Jordach: what if I told you that you can record on a cassette anything you want
15:20 Krock Jordach, can't wait for it :D
15:21 Jordach Fixer, >current deck is a Teac R-H300
15:21 Jordach already done that
15:21 Fixer nice
15:21 Jordach it's actually hiding in my desk
15:21 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
15:21 Fixer then you just need lots of good casettes, and you can pretty much record anything from a PC/other device to your casette recorder, you know better
15:22 benrob0329 No 3.5 jack would be understandable on some decices (where music clearly isn't what your going to be using it for) or where its absolutely necessary
15:22 Megaf Hi all
15:22 benrob0329 Hi Megaf
15:22 Megaf benrob0329, I agree
15:22 Fixer benrob0329: lots of young people still use phone for music
15:22 Megaf no excuse for smartphones not having headphone jack
15:22 Fixer yep
15:22 Fixer price is already ridiculous
15:23 Jordach Fixer, this is the model i own http://i.imgur.com/7Teu5KC.jpg
15:23 Jordach (same one in image with leather case)
15:23 Fixer like 600 usd phone can't have 3.5mm ? thats just batshit
15:23 Fixer Jordach: pretty compact
15:23 Jordach Fixer, it's very goddamn special
15:24 Jordach that has a wow and flutter ratio of ~0.05%
15:24 Jordach but it also plays both sides and doesn't have a cracked gear mechanism, like the other DD line
15:24 red-001 cheapie, maybe you could post https://github.com/cheapie/chat6 on the forums?
15:24 Jordach Fixer, it also has the problem of being extremely expensive too
15:25 cheapie red-001: No, posting mods on the forums tends to be more trouble than it's worth.
15:25 benrob0329 Is there a way of seeing how long someone has been away?
15:25 rubenwardy !seen pilzadam
15:25 ShadowBot rubenwardy: I haven't seen pilzadam in #minetest-hub.
15:26 benrob0329 I mean without a bot
15:35 Krock /msg nickserv info PilzAdam
15:35 Krock - NickServ: Last seen  : (about 33 weeks ago)
15:35 Krock ^ benrob0329
15:37 benrob0329 Ahhh
15:37 benrob0329 Thanks
15:39 benrob0329 Irc has sounds?
15:39 benrob0329 http://ircbeginner.com/ircinfo/ircc-tips.html
15:39 benrob0329 All the way at ths bottom
15:57 Krock lol, even explains ASCII emojis
15:58 Krock =-O * * *       Enterprise firing photon torpedoes
15:59 Krock Engage!
16:01 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:07 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:14 benrob0329 Krock: lol
16:24 Krock what's btw the correct term for "client side mods" in short? "CSM mods", "Client mods"?
16:25 red-001 huh
16:25 red-001 thats the good question
16:25 Krock s/the/a/
16:26 red-001 I don't think everyone knows that CSM is the short hand for "Client-side modding"
16:26 red-001 so I suppose it's CSM mods on IRC and Client mods on the forums
16:29 Calinou we shouldn't use CSM, people will believe it means Cubic Sadomasochism
16:29 red-001 lol
16:32 red-001 Client mods wouldn't be a bad term for client-sided mods
16:37 Calinou but if we do that, people will say it's clientelism!
17:00 Jordach mmmmmm nougat update
17:20 nerzhul we are thinking with Dumbeldor about knockback, but without a new packet it's not possible to have a proper knockback
17:20 Dumbeldor :)
17:20 nerzhul regarding World of Warcraft protocol they code a dedicated packet for this
17:20 red-001 lol even north korea is part of international trademark law related agreements
17:20 benrob0329 wouldn't old clients just ignore said packet?
17:21 red-001 benrob0329 just use the old protocol for them
17:21 red-001 nvm
17:21 nerzhul benrob0329, it's the problem yes, for old client knockback will be ignored
17:21 nerzhul it's the difficulty with a retrocompat model
17:21 red-001 I though we where talking about something else
17:22 benrob0329 Ok, I don't see too much of a problem with that
17:22 nerzhul idea can be to send moveTo to old client which is a little bit hacky (like a teleport) and send knockback to new clients
17:22 benrob0329 Ild clients don't support a lot of things
17:22 benrob0329 *old
17:22 nerzhul benrob0329, with the minimum protocol raise the gap is reduced
17:23 benrob0329 And servers can reject older clients to keep gameplay balences
17:26 nerzhul benrob0329, yes
17:27 benrob0329 So...I don't see the problem
17:35 rubenwardy just make an EULA to stop people using old versions
17:35 rubenwardy problem solved
17:36 rubenwardy also add auto updating
17:36 rubenwardy and search installed programs for cheating software
17:38 red-001 and add cypro
17:38 red-001 crypto*
17:41 rubenwardy We will have the very best crypto. The very best crypto. No other game will have better. Not even China will have games better. Believe me
17:42 nore function encrypt(message) return random() end
17:43 nore No-one can decrypt our encrypted messages.
17:43 nore not even the MSA
17:43 nore *NSA
17:43 nerzhul sha256(message) :D
17:43 nore (okay, not even the one receiving the message, but why is that useful anyway?)
17:43 rubenwardy you could do that in O(1):  function encrypt(message) return 42 end
17:44 rubenwardy our algorithms are also very, very, very fast
17:44 rubenwardy actually,
17:44 rubenwardy if you implement encrypt like   function encrypt(message) return random() end
17:44 rubenwardy you probably implement random like   function random() return 42 end
17:44 rubenwardy so mine's no faster
17:44 nore heh
17:45 nore depends whether your compiler inlines functions :)
17:45 Shara Hi all
17:46 nore hey Shara
17:48 Fixer nerzhul: knockback will be very cool to have imo
17:52 * Fixer listens to this and keks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjRjqYGNeQU
18:06 Krock +1 for 42 as a crypto method
18:36 lumidify joined #minetest-hub
19:13 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
19:13 tenplus1 hi fols
19:13 Krock hi tenplu1
19:13 tenplus1 hi Krock :P
19:14 * tenplus1 prepares indian foody for dinner :D
19:16 Krock nice :)
19:16 * nerzhul prepares indian for dinner
19:16 tenplus1 hi nerzhul, nice
19:17 * nerzhul is a canibal :p
19:17 tenplus1 eheheh
19:19 Megaf tenplus1, !
19:19 tenplus1 hi Megaf
19:20 Megaf onety-one :)
19:20 tenplus1 http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pi​c/c9ac64b4-hold-up-whatg.jpg
19:20 Krock lol I was so focussed on the text
19:20 Megaf tenplus1, lol
19:20 tenplus1 :PP
19:21 Shara Hi ten
19:21 tenplus1 hi Shara :P
19:22 Shara I think I rewrote potential fire PR maybe five times so far :P
19:22 Megaf When you are waiting for an answer from her on whatsapp and she is taking a long time to answer and you realise the battery was very low...
19:23 * Megaf using web.whatsapp.com ...
19:23 tenplus1 heh, making it better each time /
19:23 Shara It's messy because there are two settings...
19:23 tenplus1 what did you add ?
19:24 Shara Didn't make PR yet but....
19:24 Megaf tenplus1, somebody rewrote fire?
19:24 Megaf You?
19:24 Shara https://github.com/Ezhh/minetest_game/commi​t/1b1a5603121eb059f29775a43bad685c725b0611
19:24 * Megaf looks
19:24 Shara Megaf: Not rewriting. Just tiny change quite a few people liked the idea of
19:24 tenplus1 I did make a fire redo but it's for Xanadu and disables all sounds so that Ambiance handles fire sounds
19:25 tenplus1 ah yes, fire disabled if running on network :P good idea
19:25 Shara works same way as tnt then
19:26 tenplus1 :))
19:26 Shara No more new servers owners getting sad things were burned down when they didn't expect it :P
19:27 tenplus1 good idea :P
19:30 paramat fire is more dangerous than tnt
19:30 tenplus1 hi paramat, I agree
19:30 paramat and we have flint and steel now too
19:31 tenplus1 when first using ethereal forest fires were rampant until I put the dry dirt biome as a buffer
19:33 Shara https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1693
19:34 paramat thanks
19:34 Shara No prob. Was fun :)
19:34 tenplus1 thumbs up
19:35 Shara Thanks tenplus1 :)
19:36 Shara Hehehe "+1 -" I sort of read this as "plus one minus" :D
19:36 tenplus1 :)
19:37 Shara thanks paramat :)
19:39 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
19:39 tenplus1 am just gonna leave this here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4425
19:40 RobbieF Good day.
19:40 tenplus1 hi RobbieF
19:40 Shara Hi RobbieF
19:41 tenplus1 hows things
19:41 RobbieF Hey you two.
19:42 RobbieF Doing well thanks (now that my web site's server is back online - lol)
19:42 RobbieF how're you?
19:42 tenplus1 what happened to your server ?   am okie... finished work and nom'd indian foody
19:42 Shara Not bad. Just made the PR I've been working on
19:42 Shara (and thanks to Ten, I'm now going to order indian... :P )
19:42 tenplus1 eheheheheh
19:47 RobbieF great stuff on both counts!
19:47 RobbieF Korma = Robbie's favorite. Just FYI.
19:47 Shara sofar: can I ask your reasoning please?
19:47 Shara This is clearly an issue and first time server owners clearly don't know better.
19:47 tenplus1 RobbieF: Try a Ceylonese Korma... even better :DDD
19:48 sofar shara: completely ignores singleplayer
19:48 Shara I have walked enough people through how to turn fire off that I have lost count.
19:48 sofar any discussion in here that disregards singleplayer gameplay is completely biased
19:48 Shara WOuld you also want it off by default on singleplayer?
19:49 * RobbieF types: cp *.korma /tmp/mybelly
19:49 sofar not a single singleplayer player will come in here asking how to turn it ON
19:49 * RobbieF doesn't care what type of korma. Just give me the korma.
19:49 Shara But that's why I didn't change the behaviour for them.
19:49 sofar no, I want it on by default, just like tnt and liquids should be on by default
19:49 Shara For singleplayer, it still would be with this.
19:49 sofar huh, did I misread?
19:49 Shara Looks like
19:49 * sofar goes to wear glasses
19:50 Shara "Singleplayer remains unchanged. "
19:50 Shara I have no interest in changing singleplayer for this. I think everything should be on by default there. (you don't get other people showing up to grief in singleplayer)
19:50 sofar yeah
19:50 sofar so my kids enable lan play
19:50 sofar and now fire stops working
19:52 Megaf_ joined #minetest-hub
19:54 sofar anyway, sorry I misread, but using minetest.is_singleplayer() and changing behavior is IMHO broken
19:54 sofar unwanted, even.
19:55 paramat wanted by a few already, and makes a lot of sense
19:56 Shara sofar: I get the point about local lan players, but I think it's more important to prevent damage on large public worlds which someone is going to be paying to run for others.
19:56 sofar but
19:56 sofar but
19:56 Shara atorian37 hit this issue just last night
19:56 sofar you're making a mess with options for stupid server ops
19:56 sofar a single wiki page should suffice
19:56 Shara Being new is not being stupid.
19:56 TommyTreasure hey now, i resemble that!
19:57 Shara TommyTreasure also had this issue, yes.
19:57 sofar heres_how_to_make_a_safe_mu​ltiplayer_server_wiki.html
19:57 TommyTreasure yes, but i had found it in the wiki just as you told me about it
19:57 paramat wut, tnt is disabled for multiplayer and is less dangerous than fire
19:58 * TommyTreasure also didn't know about /deleteblocks until a few days ago
19:58 sofar paramat: ehehe, we should ban `minetest.singleplayer()` from mtg imho :)
20:00 TommyTreasure just my opinion.  the harder it gets for a new server owner to set up a safe game, the less those server owners will help promote the game.
20:01 sofar TommyTreasure: you're disragarding a very important factor
20:01 sofar 1) there are many servers already, and most are empty
20:01 TommyTreasure btw, not meant as an argument
20:01 sofar 2) many, many more players never go on servers
20:02 sofar people forget that probably 90% of players never go to a multiplayer server
20:02 Shara I don't forget, but there's only the one official game.
20:02 sofar they start singleplayer and play it once, or play a local server
20:02 sofar obviously that's a problem, there should be 1 official game.
20:02 sofar and what we have now (mtg) isn't that
20:02 paramat servers are still important
20:02 sofar it's a half-bad modding base and a half-bad singleplayer game
20:03 sofar so it's the worst of both
20:03 Shara Yes, that's why I'd like them split up.
20:03 sofar any server operator should realize that and stop using mtg
20:03 TommyTreasure that's exactly the way i started.  but.......  i studied the youtube vids (and a good part of them give some bad information), then joined the forums, and read, read, read.....
20:03 sofar and we should make mtg a singleplayer game 100%
20:03 Shara sofar: and with what time am I supposed to go and make a game from scratch?
20:04 Shara Most of us have been here learning as we go,a nd MTG was the only real option.
20:04 sofar well we can't do it all at once
20:05 TommyTreasure ^^ totally understood
20:05 sofar small steps
20:05 sofar but the steps should be going the right way
20:05 Shara Right way depends what MTG is, and if MTG devs can't agree on this, there isn't much hope for the rest of us to have a clue.
20:06 TommyTreasure but is the right way for a totally split of singleplayer vs multiplayer game?  sorry if i misunderstood you
20:06 sofar developing a multiplayer game is hard, no doubt
20:07 paramat your opinions about servers not using mtg and mtg being singleplayer only are irrelevant to what is actually happening on servers
20:07 paramat the PR seems a 'no-brainer'
20:07 sofar it's only irrelevant if you think singleplayers are irrelevant
20:07 sofar I'd like to point out that the change breaks peoples' games?
20:08 Shara But this PR is only bad if you think servers are irrelevant.
20:08 sofar I never play singleplayer since then my son can't join me
20:08 sofar do I want fire? yes
20:08 sofar tnt? yes
20:08 Shara And it's fixed with one line in conf
20:08 sofar liquids?
20:08 paramat how does it break games?
20:08 sofar Shara: no, the PR is bad too because it's written ONLY for uninformed server operators
20:08 nore what I would suggest then
20:08 sofar paramat: it removes fire entirely
20:09 sofar from a world that has fire
20:09 nore is that when you have a multiplayer server
20:09 nore the first time a player with "server" priv joins
20:09 nore they get asked whether they want a "safe" server (fire, tnt, etc disabled) or not
20:09 nore problem solved :)
20:09 paramat if a server has no fire setting they can add one, it's worth it
20:10 Shara I don't see what this breaks. Fire either edstroys things and goes out... or goes out before destroying things/spreading
20:10 Shara destroys*
20:10 sofar mtg has permanent fire
20:11 sofar also a problem with setting_get/set is that it applies to all worlds
20:13 TommyTreasure i actually thought i was the 'different' server owner, not using RUN_IN_PLACE.
20:13 atorian37 for me it was clearly my fault yesterday - I did not realise, that I had to disable fire at all if I don't want players to be able to destroy, what other players have built on my multiplayer world... it's always a risk because there is at leat one black sheep in the raws of the players
20:13 TommyTreasure atorian37, i did it to myself!  by accident, of course.
20:14 atorian37 ok, thats the other sie
20:14 atorian37 side
20:15 atorian37 maybe it should be disabled by default and be added if wanted?
20:15 tenplus1 agreed
20:15 Shara That's what this was for :)
20:15 sofar no, no, no
20:15 shivajiva How much support is there amongst the devs for concentrating on singleplayer and making it great as opposed to this 'worst of both worlds'? As a server owner I find it a very interesting statement
20:15 sofar might as well vote for removing fire and tnt altogether from mtg
20:16 TommyTreasure but, here's the drawback of uneducated server owners.  some servers get a great initial response to their 'new' worlds, then 1 person comes in, gets a fire started, and their hard work, as well as player's hard work, is destroyed
20:16 paramat this is not for uninformed admin, it's for innocently ignorant admin who don't yet realise the huge danger from fire. the danger is so high default off is well worth it
20:16 tenplus1 singleplayer is your own private world, having tnt and fire spreading is a good thing, but on servers by default tnt is already disabled so why not fire spreading
20:16 TommyTreasure not necessarily by griefing either
20:17 sofar again, a wiki page solves this problem
20:17 TommyTreasure sofar: i would agree with you if there was better (much better) documentation regarding minetest.conf, as part of the distribution.
20:17 sofar documentation is a way to solve a problem
20:17 paramat people don't always read the whole of wiki, i still haven't and try to avoid it because it's out of date
20:17 TommyTreasure +1
20:18 sofar no, no, no, don't blame the devs for not writing specific multiplayer docs
20:18 tenplus1 same paramat, I read git docs more
20:18 paramat and i encourage others to not rely on it
20:18 Shara I blame the devs for having one game and not being able to agree on what it is for. Nothing more than that.
20:18 TommyTreasure paramat: it took me a month of playing on a tps server before i knew the wiki existed
20:18 atorian37 but guys & gals, after all, fo rme it was also a lesson...nothing very hard hapened (thanks to the help here) and I learned a lot since yesterday ;)
20:18 paramat admin opting-in to fire is a very small inconvenience
20:19 sofar Shara: actually, I agree what it's for, but the other devs seem to be ignoring the problem entirely
20:19 sofar hell fork minetest_game today and I'd be exhilerated
20:19 nore no no no
20:19 sofar stop pretending that we can cater to everyone
20:19 tenplus1 I disabled fire on Xanadu after seeing it ravage whole areas of map and lag them to hell...  it's a needed feature to have it disabled by default on servers and enable it if wanted...
20:19 nore mtg should be for singleplayer, even if it can have a multiplayer use
20:19 Shara permanent_flame doesn't go out even when normal flame does from tests here.
20:20 nore but we should focus primarily on singleplayer
20:20 paramat what problem are we ignoring?
20:20 Shara So I still don't see how this breaks worlds.
20:20 sofar choosing that mtg is for LAN play only
20:20 nore although we should add configuration for things such as fire/tnt so that server owners can easily disable them
20:20 sofar unmoderated, undiluted, unprotected
20:21 nore and make a doc somewhere to tell that to server owners
20:21 sofar nore: but, said config should go into mod config, not minetest.conf
20:21 nore sofar: yes
20:21 nore however I think it would be nice to have some simple global switch that protects everything
20:21 sofar call it `survival_game`
20:22 nore i.e. every time we want to use is_singleplayer now, you use this switch with defaults to on
20:22 paramat it doesn't suggest mtg is for multiplayer only, it's just setting the default taking into account the dangers
20:22 sofar paramat: no but it changes how existing worlds work
20:22 paramat so?
20:22 nore and whenever a server owner wants a "protected" server, they flip the switch and that's all
20:22 paramat it's for good reason
20:23 sofar explain that to my son when he can't get his fireplace to work
20:23 sofar hint: he's 6, he doesn't take disappointment well
20:23 tenplus1 sofar:  you can easily enable fire
20:23 sofar he can't
20:23 tenplus1 but YOU can...
20:23 paramat it takes you a fraction of the time spent arguing to add the setting
20:23 sofar but you broke it
20:23 TommyTreasure explain it to a 7 y/o player when their house burns down
20:23 sofar ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF?
20:23 paramat your son has a helpful father
20:24 tenplus1 advanced settings has enable_fire
20:24 sofar there are hundreds of kids .... maybe thousands
20:24 sofar they don't have me as a dad
20:24 tenplus1 kids arent so stupid they cant go into advanced settings and search for fire
20:24 sofar heck their parents may not even know how to update windows
20:24 sofar oh ffs
20:24 sofar left #minetest-hub
20:24 paramat if kids have problems with settings they will have hundreds of problems elsewhere in MT
20:24 nore :'(
20:24 tenplus1 o.O why the hell was this even an argument ?
20:24 nore paramat: not true
20:25 benrob0329 What is happening
20:25 nore the thing is:
20:25 benrob0329 O_O
20:25 paramat sofar is making no sense at all
20:25 nore server owners *are able to read the docs*
20:25 benrob0329 No one is making sense
20:25 nore it is trivial for them to disable a single switch
20:25 TommyTreasure too bad it takes ages for a new server owner to find them
20:25 tenplus1 exactly... if a post on the forum alerts them to the change they can enable fire if they really want it
20:25 nore it is not for other players, especially kids
20:25 benrob0329 Problem: Fire is easy to grief with, and lags the server
20:25 tenplus1 it breaks nothing and saves many noob servers from getting burned
20:26 Shara Wish I never bothered...
20:26 TommyTreasure :(
20:26 Shara Why can't people disagree without arguing?
20:26 nore benrob0329: yes, but a server owner read the docs to know how to setup a server anyway
20:26 benrob0329 Solution: make fire not lag the server, and disable it in multiplayer by default
20:26 tenplus1 and the docs on forum can be updated to show fire/tnt enabling
20:27 nore exactly
20:27 Shara benrob0329: last part is what the PR is for.
20:27 atorian37 please not lanplay only.. my godchild lives 70kms away and likes to play with me on my server...
20:27 nore atorian37: nah, what I want is to enable it as a default
20:27 atorian37 ah
20:27 nore and public server owners can disable it easily
20:28 TommyTreasure nore: it really isn't as easy as that for noob server owners
20:28 benrob0329 perhaps move tnt and fire to the world select?
20:28 nore TommyTreasure: *any* public server owner will read at least some docs
20:28 benrob0329 /add and api to add per world sertings to main menu
20:29 nore but I *still don't see* why my suggestion was not even considered
20:29 tenplus1 settings tab has a space in the middle for "[ ] Enable TNT"   and "[ ] Enable Fire spread"
20:29 tenplus1 that's very easy indeed
20:29 nore the first time a player with the server priv joins, ask that an done.
20:29 TommyTreasure nore: docs are difficult to find
20:30 nore that's why I'm asking why this suggestion was not even considered in the conversation
20:30 benrob0329 An easy to see setting will do wonders for newbie players
20:30 paramat nore, yes, but multiplayer servers usually are run by people who know how to work with settings, and only multiplayer is affected here
20:31 nore paramat: yes, so?
20:32 paramat so the setting being a problem for a young kid is not much of an issue
20:32 Fixer *,...,*
20:33 Fixer if kid hates settings - smth wrong with this kid
20:33 paramat so why is tnt disabled for multiplayer by default? no-one has complained about that
20:33 nore there.
20:34 nore doing things differently in multiplayer is misleading
20:34 Shara nore: I actually have no issues with your idea
20:34 Shara Just kind of reeling from the reaction this got
20:37 tenplus1 http://i67.tinypic.com/3128hgn.jpg
20:37 Krock So what do we want now? protect server admins that don't know what fire is or is that over-control and should be left to them to disable it?
20:38 Shara Krock: let's just forget it
20:38 Krock Shara, but TNT is inconsistent too
20:38 Shara Any PR of mine that generates such fuss isn't worth it
20:40 Shara Krock: MTG devs need to decide here. It's been made quite clear server owners don't get an opinion that matters in terms of what MTG is.
20:40 Shara But yes, it should be consistent.
20:42 CWz i wonder what | are use for
20:43 Krock the current way of getting user feedback is just horrible. either nobody but the PR writer knows what should happen or there's a flamewar that shows that no overall opinion can be found
20:44 Krock how about adding a strawpoll into the pull, Shara?
20:45 Shara Krock: to be honest, it just puts me off
20:45 Shara We had, I think six people, including one dev, in favour of this here last night. Another dev (not MTG) told me he supports the idea
20:45 Krock normally there's a workaround where both parties are okay with. but here this gets impossile
20:46 Krock *impossible
20:46 Shara I never have objections to adjusting my PRs... but I don't want to be told I'm trying to spoil little kids' games
20:46 tenplus1 let the pull stand on it's own merit and see who answers it...
20:47 Shara Two devs said no, so it's pointless now
20:47 tenplus1 consistency in-game is a good thing and on multiplayer it helps if noobs dont destroy new worlds by using TNT and fires
20:47 rubenwardy Not really sure why there's such a big argument
20:47 Krock tenplus1, worst case is always being marked as controversial and then it slowly dies after getting the rebase-needed tag
20:47 rubenwardy Fire is supposed to add risk
20:47 rubenwardy that is the whole point
20:48 Krock I'd also like to keep fire how it is right now. but it's annoying to have tnt going its own way there
20:48 tenplus1 singleplayer worlds are fine to enable by default, yoy play you learn
20:48 tenplus1 but multiplayer it needs a little help to stop griefing unless fire is really wanted and enabled
20:48 * benrob0329 still thinks that fire shiuld be rewritten as a node state
20:49 Shara rubenwardy: yes, but when you find a new server owner didn't know that, and kids are crying their houses were burned down... it just bites a bit.
20:49 Krock and if you want to have intact forests after 1 week uptime, you have to disable fire or claim all the area :/
20:49 Shara The other way round, no damage is done, the current way round, damage is done
20:49 * Shara shrugs
20:49 Shara None of it is worth a fight though
20:56 tenplus1 nite all...
21:00 TommyTreasure had a phone call, so i couldn't post at the appropriate time....
21:00 TommyTreasure however...
21:00 TommyTreasure i honestly thought the idea of this channel was to get and weigh the response of the server owners, as well as the dev team members
21:01 Krock You're late. I hope you have some flowers to put on the graveyard ;)
21:01 TommyTreasure lol, sometimes work has to come first
21:01 Krock true
21:02 Fixer lies, that channel was originally dedicated to all funs of vapourwave
21:02 Fixer and minetest was mentioned just recently
21:02 TommyTreasure the point i wanted to make was regarding the docs.  a new server owner needs to understand programming language just to understand the minetest.example.conf
21:02 Krock Fixer, what? I originally came here to get new movie torrents
21:02 TommyTreasure if that's the actual filename, even
21:02 TommyTreasure great idea!
21:03 Fixer Krock: we forget about movies in the process, vaporwave was just that good
21:03 Krock TommyTreasure, *.conf.example actually but yes.
21:04 Krock The settings in the GUI makes it even more easier, if the server should be a temportary one
21:04 Krock *make
21:05 TommyTreasure it does, if you don't have to spend hours trying to get the definition of some of the terms.  also, there are many instances where the min/max aren't mentioned, and some work in inverse.  totally confusing to the noob
21:06 rubenwardy http://wiki.minetest.net/Setti​ng_up_a_server#Protect_server
21:06 TommyTreasure i would have to admit that there is about 90% of the minetest.conf settings that i have absolutely no clue
21:06 TommyTreasure not all minetest server owners are 'hard core' gamers
21:07 TommyTreasure dang!  another work phone call.
21:07 Krock well, if it gets too hard for understanding we have a quite good support here on IRC :)
21:09 Shara A big problem with MT is actually too much documentation. It's big and sprawling and messy. Great once you work out where to start reading... but until then, new person is lost with many headaches
21:11 nerzhul Shara, having more pages could be better than a single file
21:12 TommyTreasure and a lot of the documentation is old, and really is hard to find.  at least not in the 'official' location
21:13 Shara nerzhul: I've written such documentation professionally, and what MT has is largely confusing, incomplete-feeling an dmessy. Of course, that's the nature of something like this, so it's obseration, not me placing blame.
21:13 Shara observation*
21:14 TommyTreasure i should have stated my position on 'observation' also.
21:15 TommyTreasure i just wish i had the energy to go through the minetest config options, and submit a version at can be understood by the noob
21:17 TommyTreasure for instance, i was able to get m/t compiled along with all the prerequisites, on a slack box.  was able to install both inspircd and anope, and configure m/t to communicate my my private irc server, yet still have probs getting m/t working properly and smoothly
21:19 sofar joined #minetest-hub
21:43 red-001 did fire just turn into a second sneak?
21:44 * Shara shrugs
21:44 nerzhul red-001, heh
21:45 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/RZ79eQj.png EPIC
21:45 Fixer betanews, amen
21:46 red-001 theoretically speaking if you had to re-name minetest what name would you chosse?
21:46 Shara 'headache' :P
21:47 rubenwardy Freeminer
21:47 rubenwardy oh wait
21:47 red-001 dead fork, good name
21:48 sofar bwahahaha
21:49 red-001 kinda wish there was a way to filter servers in the serverlist
21:50 Shara Would be nice
21:50 red-001 I don't feel like working with formspecs through
21:51 Nathans21 joined #minetest-hub
21:51 sofar tbh, sfinv is nice
21:52 Shara left #minetest-hub
21:52 WhoAreYou left #minetest-hub
21:53 red-001 is that the new inventory system?
21:53 Fixer OpenCraft
21:54 benrob0329 Dental FLOSS
21:54 red-001 huh opencraft isn't a bad suggestion
21:55 behalebabo sounds like the name of a minecraft clone to me
21:55 red-001 someone on the forums suggested voxelia
21:55 benrob0329 Perhaps Minetest = Engine, Opencraft == default game
21:59 Fixer oh, new Samsung Galaxy S8 is out, battery power is estimated at 2kilotons
22:03 Fixer Spiceworks, which revealed the usage share figures of the main PC operating systems in the business space, says that Windows 7 has a share of 69 percent, followed by Windows XP with 14 percent. Windows 10 is in third place, with nine percent usage share.
22:03 red-001 lol where is windows 8?
22:04 red-001 fourth with 5%?
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22:20 Fixer red-001: kek
22:20 Fixer red-001: probably behind win2000
22:30 sofar caveplay, world of caves, dig a planet, cube digger, block digger, block craft, block maker, blocklife, cubilism, lucky blocks
22:32 paramat cubic sadomasochism
22:33 sofar well, that would do well with a certain demographic
22:34 sofar but "blocklife" would make it easier to get parents to install it for their kids
22:34 red-001 paramat, lol
22:37 benrob0329 OpenMiner
22:38 benrob0329 Irrcraft
22:38 benrob0329 Mod-the-heck-outa-it craft
22:40 red-001 another project is already using "openspade" btw
22:41 * benrob0329 gets back to learning C
22:41 TommyTreasure boy, am i going to stick my foot in my mouth big time.  but since i'm here as an observer, and obviously my thoughts and concerns as a noob server owner seemed to be ignored.  and, especially with all the latest in-fighting, i'm going to leave this channel.  no, not a rage-quit, just rather not participate in a one-sided outlook on what could be  really great game.
22:41 TommyTreasure left #minetest-hub
22:42 benrob0329 This is sad.
22:43 red-001 indeed
22:43 rubenwardy heh
22:43 rubenwardy decided against isn't ignored
22:44 red-001 a lot of opensource projects are more hostile to newcomers
22:49 paramat hmm that's odd, tommy, i've listened about sneak and have put a huge amount of hours into preserving old sneak behaviour in some form. i suggest foot back out of mouth :]
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23:15 shivajiva I'm thinking, if the exercise was to put server owners in their place in the scheme of things by sofar he definitely succeeded in stamping it
23:16 sofar never my intent
23:17 sofar if heated discussions turn into patches, great, I'll do them myself
23:18 shivajiva shouting and rage quitting and a pr for tnt to align it
23:19 sofar you know, we should have some more singleplayer players in here
23:19 sofar they're not really represented well
23:19 shivajiva agreed :)
23:19 nore shivajiva: it was decided to allow this to be configured in the inventory tab
23:19 sofar well nothing was decided yet, but I'd be happy to code it up and PR it
23:19 nore and it will probably be coded quite soon
23:19 nore just wait :)
23:19 sofar then everyone can decide in the PR thread, again
23:20 shivajiva I have a child also sofar so I'm also aware of the issues :)
23:20 sofar I felt like I was getting no support
23:20 sofar so I left
23:20 sofar then I made a technical contribution that fixed a bug
23:20 sofar and wrote, clearly, that it's a horrible change, in the PR
23:21 sofar so I don't think I was dishonest
23:21 shivajiva woa never implied
23:22 sofar well sometimes I can use a cooldown
23:22 sofar leaving for a bit isn't always bad
23:23 shivajiva need to know how this works, where do I get the info on the current goals of the project?
23:23 sofar mtg goals are barely written down, sadly
23:23 sofar the engine is much better organized
23:24 sofar but, I can't make any other conclusion that multiplayer server admins should be more than capable of maintaining a modding base
23:24 sofar the same cannot be said for single/LAN play
23:24 sofar hence my stance that mtg should become a survival/LAN play game
23:25 shivajiva I cannot argue with the logic
23:25 shivajiva just the execution of the discussion xD
23:25 sofar it's just a logical conclusion, and practical too
23:26 sofar well, sadly, any real discussion often tends to go the other way
23:26 sofar because server owners represent themselves well
23:26 sofar and they don't want to maintain it
23:26 sofar after all, they maintain servers, not code
23:26 sofar so there's the conflict, right there
23:26 sofar lots of talking, nobody coding :)
23:27 shivajiva not enough background info is passed to understand dev and support you guys
23:27 sofar https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1485
23:29 sofar I .. can't even see any disagreement, but it looks like it's just talk (and no code)
23:30 Shara joined #minetest-hub
23:32 paramat shivajiva c55's roadmap posts: http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491 https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=7&amp;t=9177
23:33 shivajiva thanks :)
23:33 shivajiva wb Shara
23:33 Shara thanks
23:35 Shara sofar: just for the record - if I thought there was a chance of officially getting some kind of base game for servers added, I'd love to help with it. But every time the topic comes up, it seems to just go in circles.
23:35 sofar very much aware of that
23:35 Shara and I don't really have the time to invest in something that big if it doesn't have official backing and a strong chance of getting somewhere
23:36 sofar and, painfully so, since other than making a new fork today I have no idea how else to resolve it going forward
23:36 Shara That's the other thing, a lot of people seem to disagree on what it should be
23:37 Shara if those issues could be figured out, I'd be happy to help in whatever way I can
23:39 shivajiva seems it was done like that before and ended up merging back skimming it but if it is the most logical way of improving both sides I'll support it
23:39 nore sofar: I have one idea to go forward a bit: finish entity_ai and let's merge it :p
23:39 Shara I guess the trouble is maintaining something
23:39 sofar nore: sure sure
23:40 sofar the refactor gave it a good push in the right direction
23:40 sofar not sure what I should tackle next
23:40 Shara but without official support, it'sa pointless exercise to even try
23:40 sofar probably more driver code (water movement, flying, victim finder)
23:40 * benrob0329 says "biom decorations style spawning" under his breath, and then disapears
23:40 nore we definitely need some kind of logic/circuits after that in _game
23:41 sofar benrob0329: in my design, spawning and keeping entity state is done in a separate mod entirely
23:41 sofar there's a mod to drive the monsters
23:41 zorman2000 joined #minetest-hub
23:41 sofar and there's a mod to spawn/save/restore them
23:41 nore not something too big like mesecons but we need something :)
23:41 benrob0329 Pressure plates, wires, torches
23:41 sofar nore: I think we've got enough experience to make something now :)
23:41 nore sofar: heh
23:42 sofar I'm thinking something voltage level based, though, with cabling using connected nodeboxes
23:42 sofar maybe even real voltage circuit emulation
23:42 sofar and, no free power
23:42 nore that would be good
23:42 benrob0329 and how does that open a door?
23:42 sofar voltage based
23:42 benrob0329 Piston (not in the mc sense)
23:42 benrob0329 ?
23:42 sofar more like MC than mesecons
23:43 sofar but not redstone
23:43 sofar we'd have an actual battery I think
23:43 benrob0329 I mean like a piston enablrd door, allowing you to open it with some power
23:43 nore ^ however something that allows pressure plate+door combo would be good I think
23:43 sofar pistons, doors are just voltage/current consumers
23:43 nore it's one of the most widely used features of mesecons
23:44 sofar well, one could insert a battery in a node to generate power
23:44 sofar copper + iron + potato == battery
23:44 paramat i'm ok with the adding of a new base game, could help out obviously with mapgen stuff, but too busy to do more than that
23:44 nore :D
23:44 sofar (I'm not joking)
23:45 benrob0329 A switch would be good as well, something that can allow builders to automate things
23:45 * nore is thinking about what a more serious recipe could be
23:45 sofar paramat: the thing is, taking the `server` out of minetest_game is easy. But who's going to take care of the `server` then?
23:45 sofar honestly I wouldn't.
23:46 benrob0329 ^
23:46 sofar idk, I'd be up for fixing bugs and help people maintaining it
23:47 sofar but I doubt I'll spend a lot of time making it cute
23:47 sofar you can easily guilt me into writing a ton of code
23:47 sofar just look at the timer class I wrote this morning
23:47 cheapie I don't know if I'm doing this wrong or not, but I have "checkbox[0.75,5.5;timestamps;Show Timestamps;false]" in a formspec, and I'm not getting a "timestamps" value in the received fields whether the box is checked or not.
23:47 sofar (all because wuzzy complained about minetest.after, lol)
23:47 cheapie The other fields in the same formspec are working.
23:47 Shara I'd hope it owuldn't be 'too' difficult to maintain, since (and here's where people will disagree...), in my opinion it should be mroe or less a reduced version of MTG
23:48 Shara wouldn't*
23:48 sofar anyway, I'm giving up on trying to do real work today
23:48 * sofar drives home
23:48 Shara travel safe :)
23:49 benrob0329 A reduced version of mtg?
23:49 benrob0329 What woyld be left?
23:50 benrob0329 Dirt?
23:50 Shara heh
23:50 Shara Well that's where everyone will argue :)
23:50 benrob0329 Dirt vs Stone
23:50 benrob0329 Or should it be cobble
23:50 cheapie benrob0329: Mese :P
23:50 Shara Mapgen (stuff in default) should definitely be included as is, I'd say.
23:51 benrob0329 Ditto
23:51 nore leave only pb&j pup
23:51 Shara nore wins
23:52 Shara We can't surpass that idea :)
23:52 benrob0329 No, the nyan cat
23:53 cheapie "The what cat?"
23:53 paramat markubu has been considering a base game
23:54 benrob0329 And then MTG can have more added?
23:54 Jordach or just go whole hog and give me a damn hand ;)
23:55 benrob0329 Minimal should probably have mapgen and base tools
23:55 Shara base game should be minimal content and intended for server owners to build on, whereas MTG can then be the all out singleplayer full game experience
23:56 Shara Jordach: your game wouldn't be compatible with any of the things I am already working on sadly
23:56 Jordach Shara, porting is straight forward
23:56 Shara and, I actually dislike your colour choices, which is sad, since I otherwise do like what I've seen :P
23:56 Jordach the porting work for farming+ was a piece of cake
23:57 Shara either way, looks like you're aiming for a real game, not a base game
23:57 Jordach Shara, perhaps minetest needs it's killer game
23:57 benrob0329 Jordach: I would help, but I can barely find time to do one mod
23:58 Shara I'd be happy to see more games either way
23:58 Jordach benrob0329, Shara: go to issues and just write things
23:58 Jordach ideas, enhancements
23:58 Jordach go for it
23:58 benrob0329 Non laggy carts :-)
23:59 Jordach h u e
23:59 Shara Jordach: If I start staring at solar plains, I am going to want to use pieces of it for one of my own projects, which doesn't help you much :P
23:59 Jordach Shara, likewise
23:59 Jordach it's all modular
23:59 nore ^ client-side modding should be able to do the non-laggy carts :)
23:59 nore (when a bit more developped that now)
23:59 Shara Jordach: what license are you using for things?
23:59 Jordach DILLIGAF

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