Time  Nick         Message
03:34 skyliner_369 how many logic-steps or 'ticks' per second does minetest run at?
05:06 oil_boi      skyliner_369, on github in minetest.conf.example says the default float value is 0.09, this can be changed by setting it in your minetest.conf
13:15 Warr1024     That only applies to dedicated servers.  Apparently in singleplayer the game ignores that and runs ticks as fast as it can or something.
13:15 Warr1024     That's also not a guarantee.  If a tick takes longer than 0.09 seconds, then the next tick will represent a larger chunk of time (e.g. dtime will be larger) and mods are expected to adjust accordingly.
13:22 appguru      I think ticks should be somewhere between 20 - 30 FPS
13:22 appguru      (by default)
13:22 appguru      Well-made games usually have (Lua) steps which would allow for 60 FPS
13:24 sfan5        you'd be surprised how many mods are not "well-made" in regards to performance
13:24 sfan5        Warr1024: unrelated but I've been meaning to ask: do you have an usecase for runtime_add_media() in nodecore and if yes, which would it be?
13:25 Warr1024     I don't have one very specific to nodecore right now, but I'd like to offer dynamic player skins, pretty much the same as a lot of game/mod authors and/or server operators.  It may or may not be something that falls within the scope of the game itself.
13:26 Warr1024     Customizable signs, paintings, etc. might also be really neat.  I can do lettering using [combine: right now, but to allow custom drawings and such would be pretty awesome.
13:27 Warr1024     I don't have a feature that's necessarily *blocked* on this, but that could also be because I usually adjust my plans to meet what the engine has to offer right now, rather than trying to push an engine feature through to support my game.
13:27 sfan5        I see, thanks
13:28 Warr1024     I think my original interest in that feature predated my work on NodeCore, so it may have been for other mods or other game ideas.
13:31 Warr1024     It might not be a bad idea to add a runtime_remove_media() call or something which allows a mod to notify the engine that it will no longer be using this media again, and that the engine can stop sending it to future clients.  Maybe think of a less misleading name, since it won't actually forcibly remove the media; it'll still be available on
13:31 Warr1024     clients that used it before, and it's just a promise not to make future clients need it.  I'm thinking for long-running servers that are trying to maintain some uptime, ensuring runtime media doesn't accumulate could help.
13:31 sfan5        yes that's planned
13:32 Warr1024     haha, good to know y'all're staying a few steps ahead of me :-)
14:25 appguru      #7188 could be merged, huh?
14:25 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7188 -- Do not crash if the world is read only by HybridDog
14:26 appguru      #7712 also seems good
14:26 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7712 -- Add an item pick up callback (2) by Desour
14:36 appguru      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9727#issuecomment-638889219 opinions please
14:38 sfan5        my answer is "hm"
14:38 sfan5        exposing it to CSM isn't easy since there is no permission model so that the user could say "yes this csm mod is allowed to write these images to my disk"
14:39 sfan5        the texture modifiers is probably a good idea but I wonder if there isn't a better way
15:34 sfan5        Wuzzy: now the documentation in #9486 confuses me even more
15:34 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9486 -- Play place_failed sound if node is occupied or attaching node fails by Wuzzy2
15:36 Wuzzy        what's wrong?
15:36 sfan5        shouldn't it say "Note: This sound is still played client-side when on_place handles the action in a custom way"
15:36 sfan5        ?
15:36 Wuzzy        wait
15:37 Wuzzy        you mean
15:37 Wuzzy        the sound plays when on_place is set?
15:37 Wuzzy        uh-oh
15:37 sfan5        I don't know, does it?
15:37 sfan5        but what it says now doesn't make any sense either
15:37 sfan5        if I set on_place = function() end, how would the client know *not* to play place_failed?
15:37 Wuzzy        oh wait
15:38 Wuzzy        the sound is *always* played ... regardless of on_place
15:38 Wuzzy        smh
15:38 Wuzzy        congratulations, you managed to confuse me so much, i destroyed my own documentation ?
15:39 Wuzzy        anyway, sfan5, note this PR is kind of experimental. feel free to reject and close
15:39 Wuzzy        It's not the prettiest solution tbh
15:39 Wuzzy        i mean, the PR works, but it's the "how" that could be rejectable
15:40 sfan5        the PR sounds generally good to me though
15:52 appguru      sfan5: how do I obtain a Client object somewhere in the TextureSource code?
16:02 appguru      typo in s_security: "Coudln't"
16:09 appguru      I'm currently thinking I could pass the client to the texture source during initialization, but this feels hacky
16:09 appguru      Is there something like "g_client" ?
16:17 sfan5        passing it during init is how it usually works
16:18 sfan5        but I'd say the texturesource isn't supposed to access the client directly, you should redesign the functionality to fit that
16:55 Krock        will merge #9968 in 10 minutes
16:55 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9968 -- Move shared parameters sending to UnitSAO by SmallJoker
16:57 Krock        PGimeno: does #9572 look good now?
16:57 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9572 -- Some vector functions useful for working with rotations by NetherEran
16:58 PGimeno      Krock: I mentioned another issue that was not commented in the thread
16:59 PGimeno      [0530 01:48:36] <PGimeno> vector.directions_to_rotation calls very expensive functions. It's probably simpler to construct a matrix (two normalizations, one cross product), and then to convert that matrix to Euler.
17:00 PGimeno      I don't like the name much. We have dir_to_facedir, dir_to_wallmounted, then directions_to_rotation?
17:01 PGimeno      I'd call it dir_to_rotation; the second (upvector) parameter can be seen as an extra
17:03 Krock        thnks
17:06 PGimeno      I've forgot to paste this correction: <PGimeno> sorry, two cross products
17:17 Wuzzy        sfan5: is the new sentence better now, in #9486 ?
17:17 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9486 -- Play place_failed sound if node is occupied or attaching node fails by Wuzzy2
17:18 sfan5        yes
17:19 Wuzzy        cool
17:30 sfan5        Krock: 10 minutes are over
17:31 Krock        thanks
17:31 Krock        pushy push
17:32 Krock        that happens when you set up a sound-based timer but don't wear headphones. all hail the "missed merge time analyzer" statistics
17:34 sfan5        don't worry I missed a merge by hours a few days ago
17:35 Krock        haha :3
18:07 Krock        rubenwardy: #8785 is still waiting FYI
18:07 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8785 -- LuaItemStack: Add __tostring metamethod by pauloue
18:07 Krock        trivial
18:23 Krock        Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9486/files#diff-1305560bd8befb32862f0feeefabd02eR6927
18:23 Krock        now that I understand what you actually meant there, how about this?
18:23 Krock        > This sound is played regardless on whether `on_place` is defined manually.
18:24 Krock        or  without "manually"
18:25 Wuzzy        ?
18:25 Wuzzy        Is the text still not ok?
18:26 Krock        I'm just asking whether that might be easier to understand
18:26 Krock        just my opinion
18:27 Krock        whereas it's accurate as-is, "anyway" and "still" make it feel like there was an inconsistency, but there isn't
18:28 Krock        rubenwardy: please help
18:28 Krock        language is complicated
18:45 sfan5        reminder https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/milestone/5
18:50 Krock        I was waiting for paramat for #2691
18:50 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2691 -- Add minetest.register_on_punchplayer by TeTpaAka
18:51 Krock        game#2691
18:51 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2691 -- creative: Update for compatibility with minetest.creative_is_enabled by sfan5
18:51 Krock        looks good
18:52 Krock        > creative.is_enabled_for = minetest.is_creative_enabled
18:52 Krock        this might deal bad when multiple mods override is_creative_enabled
18:53 Krock        you might want to convert it to a wrapper function?
18:55 Krock        or even better: use the old code.
19:09 rubenwardy   "Note: This happens if the _built-in_ node placement failed. This sound will still be played If custom code in a `on_place`callback is used to place the node."
19:10 rubenwardy   "If x, " in the PR felt a bit awkward
19:10 rubenwardy   also, s/a on_place/the on_place/
19:16 sfan5        Krock: you mean minetest.is_creative_enabled should be a wrapper that calls creative.is_enabled_for?
19:16 rubenwardy   other way around?
19:17 Krock        good question
19:17 sfan5        then what is the bad thing that would happen if mods override creative.is_enabled_for?
19:18 rubenwardy   you could use metatable hacks
19:18 Krock        that's not the point
19:18 rubenwardy   also, any problem that can be solved by "metatable hacks" is not a good idea
19:18 Krock        the two functions will go out of sync any way
19:19 Krock        thus I think the behaviour of creative.is_enabled_for should be kept like it is in master
19:19 Krock        and mods can switch to minetest.is_creative_enabled to support other mods
19:19 rubenwardy   with meta table callbacks, you can add warnings and also set minetest.is_creative_enabled when creative.is_enabled_for is written to
19:19 rubenwardy   this feels a bit convoluted
19:19 Krock        so the overwritten minetest.is_creative_enabled in creative would call to the creative function internally
19:20 rubenwardy   wait
19:20 * Krock      waits
19:20 rubenwardy   yes, that would works ok actually
19:20 sfan5        I consider overwriting one but not the other a mod bug, something that MTG shouldn't attempt to fix
19:21 Krock        you'd be only overwriting minetest.is_creative_enabled
19:21 sfan5        ...I don't really get what exactly the concern is right now
19:24 Krock        mainly that creative.is_enabled_for does not always call to the newest minetest.is_creative_enabled
19:25 sfan5        makes sense, it should do that
19:26 rubenwardy   `*(LuaItemStack **)(lua_touserdata(L, 1))`
19:26 rubenwardy   I hate this
19:27 rubenwardy   well, it's not that bad I guess
19:27 sfan5        in what way? do you want it moved to a templated helper function?
19:30 rubenwardy   it's a subconcious hatred, I guess the c-style cast bugs me. It works at least
19:31 rubenwardy   and it's in a util function so isn't duplicated everywhere
19:31 sfan5        *reinterpret_cast<LuaItemStack**>(lua_touserdata(L, 1))
19:33 rubenwardy   dynamic_cast, surely? reint
19:33 sfan5        updated game#2691
19:33 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2691 -- creative: Update for compatibility with minetest.creative_is_enabled by sfan5
19:33 sfan5        you could do a dynamic_cast here but I'm not sure it's useful when the lua type system already assures the class
19:34 rubenwardy   oh really
19:34 rubenwardy   that's nice
19:36 sfan5        https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5cc06e4748a82acb36310fee89e72f30b2b35a36/src/script/lua_api/l_nodetimer.cpp#L35-L36
19:36 sfan5        that's what these calls are for
19:51 rubenwardy   #9944 has been updated accoriding to review
19:51 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9944 -- Add buttons to ContentDB in game bar and configure world by rubenwardy
19:53 sfan5        that extra button kinda destroys the symmetry of the button two buttons
19:53 sfan5        but it's not like there's a better option
19:55 rubenwardy   the enabled check box should probably be in the sidebar, in which case you could have enable all on the left and FindMods on the right
20:00 rubenwardy   redesigning that dialog is probably out of scope though
20:10 sfan5        rubenwardy: did you run plus.png through optipng
20:10 sfan5        yet?
20:10 rubenwardy   oh shoot
20:13 rubenwardy   done now
20:13 sfan5        huh it's still almost 3 KB?
20:13 rubenwardy   Output file size = 2890 bytes (311 bytes = 9.72% decrease)
20:14 sfan5        % optipng -o7 -strip all textures/base/pack/plus.png
20:14 sfan5        Output file size = 759 bytes (2442 bytes = 76.29% decrease)
20:14 rubenwardy   oh, I didn't provide any arguments
20:14 sfan5        probably color profiles or whatever taking up all the space
20:18 rubenwardy   would you like to push that, or should I?
20:18 sfan5        you can
20:19 rubenwardy   done
20:36 rubenwardy   merging #9944 in 10
20:36 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9944 -- Add buttons to ContentDB in game bar and configure world by rubenwardy
21:19 rubenwardy   https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=375061
21:19 rubenwardy   !title
21:19 ShadowBot    Partially out of sync client. What do? - Minetest Forums
22:13 skyliner_369 what's the preferred format for static block object thingies? obj? and any tips on exporting obj files from Blender?
22:16 rubenwardy   please ask in #minetest
22:26 skyliner_369 Are there plans on pointing various world worldgen variables to a config file? Kinda like the custom world gen menu that was gone for a while in the other voxel game?
22:29 rubenwardy   that already exists?
22:29 rubenwardy   See world.mt
22:29 rubenwardy   or map_meta.txt
22:29 rubenwardy   I forget
22:29 rubenwardy   it's also in minetest.conf
22:29 rubenwardy   and there's a dialog in 5.3.0
22:30 skyliner_369 Well I was more saying super customization. Like changing ore spawn heights and rates.
22:34 skyliner_369 Then again I'm using the apt release. Are there any ppa urls that have the latest builds? If not, what's the recommended compiler/package builder?
22:34 rubenwardy   official stable PPA: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
22:35 rubenwardy   official daily PPA (5.3.0-dev): https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/daily-builds
22:37 appguru      Build instructions are in the Readme.
22:38 appguru      Mobile clients are currently not informing servers that they are mobile clients?
22:52 Warr1024     Is there an "official" Android build, like one I should be using if I want to repro an issue or test a mod against what would as of right now be a release candidate?
22:53 rubenwardy   there's no official one
22:53 rubenwardy   I've been making builds, and so has Monte
22:54 rubenwardy   also, proposal: we should push the release candidate to the play store
22:54 rubenwardy   the release candidate typically being done when feature freeze starts
22:54 Warr1024     I heard that there was going to be one in the play store when 5.3 was released.  I've been hoping to identify a build with configuration as close to what WOULD go into the app store as possible.
22:55 Warr1024     An official RC would be awesome
22:55 rubenwardy   well, my builds are here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/releases/
22:55 rubenwardy   I'm making a new one now
22:57 Warr1024     Unless I hear otherwise I'll consider your builds to be the release-candidate-est ones available then.  :-)
22:58 skyliner_369 I'm dumb... kinda used to github readme or build instructions being relatively useless... but this time the prereqs are in the building instructions, and it actually worked.
22:58 skyliner_369 where's the latest minetest_game game file?
22:59 rubenwardy   github.com/minetest/minetest_game
22:59 skyliner_369 got it
23:02 skyliner_369 now to figure out how to make a .desktop so I don't always have to run it via terminal