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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2020-06-04

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03:34 skyliner_369 how many logic-steps or 'ticks' per second does minetest run at?
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05:06 oil_boi skyliner_369, on github in minetest.conf.example says the default float value is 0.09, this can be changed by setting it in your minetest.conf
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13:15 Warr1024 That only applies to dedicated servers.  Apparently in singleplayer the game ignores that and runs ticks as fast as it can or something.
13:15 Warr1024 That's also not a guarantee.  If a tick takes longer than 0.09 seconds, then the next tick will represent a larger chunk of time (e.g. dtime will be larger) and mods are expected to adjust accordingly.
13:22 appguru I think ticks should be somewhere between 20 - 30 FPS
13:22 appguru (by default)
13:22 appguru Well-made games usually have (Lua) steps which would allow for 60 FPS
13:24 sfan5 you'd be surprised how many mods are not "well-made" in regards to performance
13:24 sfan5 Warr1024: unrelated but I've been meaning to ask: do you have an usecase for runtime_add_media() in nodecore and if yes, which would it be?
13:25 Warr1024 I don't have one very specific to nodecore right now, but I'd like to offer dynamic player skins, pretty much the same as a lot of game/mod authors and/or server operators.  It may or may not be something that falls within the scope of the game itself.
13:26 Warr1024 Customizable signs, paintings, etc. might also be really neat.  I can do lettering using [combine: right now, but to allow custom drawings and such would be pretty awesome.
13:27 Warr1024 I don't have a feature that's necessarily *blocked* on this, but that could also be because I usually adjust my plans to meet what the engine has to offer right now, rather than trying to push an engine feature through to support my game.
13:27 sfan5 I see, thanks
13:28 Warr1024 I think my original interest in that feature predated my work on NodeCore, so it may have been for other mods or other game ideas.
13:31 Warr1024 It might not be a bad idea to add a runtime_remove_media() call or something which allows a mod to notify the engine that it will no longer be using this media again, and that the engine can stop sending it to future clients.  Maybe think of a less misleading name, since it won't actually forcibly remove the media; it'll still be available on
13:31 Warr1024 clients that used it before, and it's just a promise not to make future clients need it.  I'm thinking for long-running servers that are trying to maintain some uptime, ensuring runtime media doesn't accumulate could help.
13:31 sfan5 yes that's planned
13:32 Warr1024 haha, good to know y'all're staying a few steps ahead of me :-)
14:25 appguru #7188 could be merged, huh?
14:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7188 -- Do not crash if the world is read only by HybridDog
14:26 appguru #7712 also seems good
14:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7712 -- Add an item pick up callback (2) by Desour
14:36 appguru https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9727#issuecomment-638889219 opinions please
14:38 sfan5 my answer is "hm"
14:38 sfan5 exposing it to CSM isn't easy since there is no permission model so that the user could say "yes this csm mod is allowed to write these images to my disk"
14:39 sfan5 the texture modifiers is probably a good idea but I wonder if there isn't a better way
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15:34 sfan5 Wuzzy: now the documentation in #9486 confuses me even more
15:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9486 -- Play place_failed sound if node is occupied or attaching node fails by Wuzzy2
15:36 Wuzzy what's wrong?
15:36 sfan5 shouldn't it say "Note: This sound is still played client-side when on_place handles the action in a custom way"
15:36 sfan5 ?
15:36 Wuzzy wait
15:37 Wuzzy you mean
15:37 Wuzzy the sound plays when on_place is set?
15:37 Wuzzy uh-oh
15:37 sfan5 I don't know, does it?
15:37 sfan5 but what it says now doesn't make any sense either
15:37 sfan5 if I set on_place = function() end, how would the client know *not* to play place_failed?
15:37 Wuzzy oh wait
15:38 Wuzzy the sound is *always* played ... regardless of on_place
15:38 Wuzzy smh
15:38 Wuzzy congratulations, you managed to confuse me so much, i destroyed my own documentation 😆
15:39 Wuzzy anyway, sfan5, note this PR is kind of experimental. feel free to reject and close
15:39 Wuzzy It's not the prettiest solution tbh
15:39 Wuzzy i mean, the PR works, but it's the "how" that could be rejectable
15:40 sfan5 the PR sounds generally good to me though
15:52 appguru sfan5: how do I obtain a Client object somewhere in the TextureSource code?
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16:02 appguru typo in s_security: "Coudln't"
16:09 appguru I'm currently thinking I could pass the client to the texture source during initialization, but this feels hacky
16:09 appguru Is there something like "g_client" ?
16:17 sfan5 passing it during init is how it usually works
16:18 sfan5 but I'd say the texturesource isn't supposed to access the client directly, you should redesign the functionality to fit that
16:55 Krock will merge #9968 in 10 minutes
16:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9968 -- Move shared parameters sending to UnitSAO by SmallJoker
16:57 Krock PGimeno: does #9572 look good now?
16:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9572 -- Some vector functions useful for working with rotations by NetherEran
16:58 PGimeno Krock: I mentioned another issue that was not commented in the thread
16:59 PGimeno [0530 01:48:36] <PGimeno> vector.directions_to_rotation calls very expensive functions. It's probably simpler to construct a matrix (two normalizations, one cross product), and then to convert that matrix to Euler.
17:00 PGimeno I don't like the name much. We have dir_to_facedir, dir_to_wallmounted, then directions_to_rotation?
17:01 PGimeno I'd call it dir_to_rotation; the second (upvector) parameter can be seen as an extra
17:03 Krock thnks
17:06 PGimeno I've forgot to paste this correction: <PGimeno> sorry, two cross products
17:17 Wuzzy sfan5: is the new sentence better now, in #9486 ?
17:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9486 -- Play place_failed sound if node is occupied or attaching node fails by Wuzzy2
17:18 sfan5 yes
17:19 Wuzzy cool
17:30 sfan5 Krock: 10 minutes are over
17:31 Krock thanks
17:31 Krock pushy push
17:32 Krock that happens when you set up a sound-based timer but don't wear headphones. all hail the "missed merge time analyzer" statistics
17:34 sfan5 don't worry I missed a merge by hours a few days ago
17:35 Krock haha :3
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18:07 Krock rubenwardy: #8785 is still waiting FYI
18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8785 -- LuaItemStack: Add __tostring metamethod by pauloue
18:07 Krock trivial
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18:23 Krock Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9486/files#diff-1305560bd8befb32862f0feeefabd02eR6927
18:23 Krock now that I understand what you actually meant there, how about this?
18:23 Krock > This sound is played regardless on whether `on_place` is defined manually.
18:24 Krock or  without "manually"
18:25 Wuzzy 🙁
18:25 Wuzzy Is the text still not ok?
18:26 Krock I'm just asking whether that might be easier to understand
18:26 Krock just my opinion
18:27 Krock whereas it's accurate as-is, "anyway" and "still" make it feel like there was an inconsistency, but there isn't
18:28 Krock rubenwardy: please help
18:28 Krock language is complicated
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18:45 sfan5 reminder https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/milestone/5
18:50 Krock I was waiting for paramat for #2691
18:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2691 -- Add minetest.register_on_punchplayer by TeTpaAka
18:51 Krock game#2691
18:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2691 -- creative: Update for compatibility with minetest.creative_is_enabled by sfan5
18:51 Krock looks good
18:52 Krock > creative.is_enabled_for = minetest.is_creative_enabled
18:52 Krock this might deal bad when multiple mods override is_creative_enabled
18:53 Krock you might want to convert it to a wrapper function?
18:55 Krock or even better: use the old code.
19:09 rubenwardy "Note: This happens if the _built-in_ node placement failed. This sound will still be played If custom code in a `on_place`callback is used to place the node."
19:10 rubenwardy "If x, " in the PR felt a bit awkward
19:10 rubenwardy also, s/a on_place/the on_place/
19:16 sfan5 Krock: you mean minetest.is_creative_enabled should be a wrapper that calls creative.is_enabled_for?
19:16 rubenwardy other way around?
19:17 Krock good question
19:17 sfan5 then what is the bad thing that would happen if mods override creative.is_enabled_for?
19:18 rubenwardy you could use metatable hacks
19:18 Krock that's not the point
19:18 rubenwardy also, any problem that can be solved by "metatable hacks" is not a good idea
19:18 Krock the two functions will go out of sync any way
19:19 Krock thus I think the behaviour of creative.is_enabled_for should be kept like it is in master
19:19 Krock and mods can switch to minetest.is_creative_enabled to support other mods
19:19 rubenwardy with meta table callbacks, you can add warnings and also set minetest.is_creative_enabled when creative.is_enabled_for is written to
19:19 rubenwardy this feels a bit convoluted
19:19 Krock so the overwritten minetest.is_creative_enabled in creative would call to the creative function internally
19:20 rubenwardy wait
19:20 * Krock waits
19:20 rubenwardy yes, that would works ok actually
19:20 sfan5 I consider overwriting one but not the other a mod bug, something that MTG shouldn't attempt to fix
19:21 Krock you'd be only overwriting minetest.is_creative_enabled
19:21 sfan5 ...I don't really get what exactly the concern is right now
19:24 Krock mainly that creative.is_enabled_for does not always call to the newest minetest.is_creative_enabled
19:25 sfan5 makes sense, it should do that
19:26 rubenwardy `*(LuaItemStack **)(lua_touserdata(L, 1))`
19:26 rubenwardy I hate this
19:27 rubenwardy well, it's not that bad I guess
19:27 sfan5 in what way? do you want it moved to a templated helper function?
19:30 rubenwardy it's a subconcious hatred, I guess the c-style cast bugs me. It works at least
19:31 rubenwardy and it's in a util function so isn't duplicated everywhere
19:31 sfan5 *reinterpret_cast<LuaItemStack**>(lua_touserdata(L, 1))
19:33 rubenwardy dynamic_cast, surely? reint
19:33 sfan5 updated game#2691
19:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2691 -- creative: Update for compatibility with minetest.creative_is_enabled by sfan5
19:33 sfan5 you could do a dynamic_cast here but I'm not sure it's useful when the lua type system already assures the class
19:34 rubenwardy oh really
19:34 rubenwardy that's nice
19:36 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5cc06e4748a82acb36310fee89e72f30b2b35a36/src/script/lua_api/l_nodetimer.cpp#L35-L36
19:36 sfan5 that's what these calls are for
19:51 rubenwardy #9944 has been updated accoriding to review
19:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9944 -- Add buttons to ContentDB in game bar and configure world by rubenwardy
19:53 sfan5 that extra button kinda destroys the symmetry of the button two buttons
19:53 sfan5 but it's not like there's a better option
19:55 rubenwardy the enabled check box should probably be in the sidebar, in which case you could have enable all on the left and FindMods on the right
20:00 rubenwardy redesigning that dialog is probably out of scope though
20:10 sfan5 rubenwardy: did you run plus.png through optipng
20:10 sfan5 yet?
20:10 rubenwardy oh shoot
20:13 rubenwardy done now
20:13 sfan5 huh it's still almost 3 KB?
20:13 rubenwardy Output file size = 2890 bytes (311 bytes = 9.72% decrease)
20:14 sfan5 % optipng -o7 -strip all textures/base/pack/plus.png
20:14 sfan5 Output file size = 759 bytes (2442 bytes = 76.29% decrease)
20:14 rubenwardy oh, I didn't provide any arguments
20:14 sfan5 probably color profiles or whatever taking up all the space
20:18 rubenwardy would you like to push that, or should I?
20:18 sfan5 you can
20:19 rubenwardy done
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20:36 rubenwardy merging #9944 in 10
20:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9944 -- Add buttons to ContentDB in game bar and configure world by rubenwardy
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21:19 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=375061
21:19 rubenwardy !title
21:19 ShadowBot Partially out of sync client. What do? - Minetest Forums
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22:13 skyliner_369 what's the preferred format for static block object thingies? obj? and any tips on exporting obj files from Blender?
22:16 rubenwardy please ask in #minetest
22:26 skyliner_369 Are there plans on pointing various world worldgen variables to a config file? Kinda like the custom world gen menu that was gone for a while in the other voxel game?
22:29 rubenwardy that already exists?
22:29 rubenwardy See world.mt
22:29 rubenwardy or map_meta.txt
22:29 rubenwardy I forget
22:29 rubenwardy it's also in minetest.conf
22:29 rubenwardy and there's a dialog in 5.3.0
22:30 skyliner_369 Well I was more saying super customization. Like changing ore spawn heights and rates.
22:34 skyliner_369 Then again I'm using the apt release. Are there any ppa urls that have the latest builds? If not, what's the recommended compiler/package builder?
22:34 rubenwardy official stable PPA: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
22:35 rubenwardy official daily PPA (5.3.0-dev): https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/daily-builds
22:37 appguru Build instructions are in the Readme.
22:38 appguru Mobile clients are currently not informing servers that they are mobile clients?
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22:52 Warr1024 Is there an "official" Android build, like one I should be using if I want to repro an issue or test a mod against what would as of right now be a release candidate?
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22:53 rubenwardy there's no official one
22:53 rubenwardy I've been making builds, and so has Monte
22:54 rubenwardy also, proposal: we should push the release candidate to the play store
22:54 rubenwardy the release candidate typically being done when feature freeze starts
22:54 Warr1024 I heard that there was going to be one in the play store when 5.3 was released.  I've been hoping to identify a build with configuration as close to what WOULD go into the app store as possible.
22:55 Warr1024 An official RC would be awesome
22:55 rubenwardy well, my builds are here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/releases/
22:55 rubenwardy I'm making a new one now
22:57 Warr1024 Unless I hear otherwise I'll consider your builds to be the release-candidate-est ones available then.  :-)
22:58 skyliner_369 I'm dumb... kinda used to github readme or build instructions being relatively useless... but this time the prereqs are in the building instructions, and it actually worked.
22:58 skyliner_369 where's the latest minetest_game game file?
22:59 rubenwardy github.com/minetest/minetest_game
22:59 skyliner_369 got it
23:02 skyliner_369 now to figure out how to make a .desktop so I don't always have to run it via terminal
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