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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2020-04-04

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Time Nick Message
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09:23 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9557#issuecomment-607979943
09:23 kilbith sfan5, so why we should deprive from small fixes during the feature freeze?
09:24 kilbith and why we should ship out a broken feature for 5.2?
09:24 kilbith add this to the milestone as well for https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9583
09:27 kilbith it's exactly like walking in the street and not bending down to pick up $2 deliberately
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09:31 kilbith your weak-ass PR management is so bad that you have occulted trivial fixes like that: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9319
09:32 kilbith or that: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9058
09:49 sfan5 ah yes great style, leaving a rant and leaving immediately
09:50 sfan5 ~tell kilbith if you had looked at the timestamps, you would have noticed that my comment was posted 3 minutes before the PR was created
09:50 ShadowBot sfan5: O.K.
09:53 sfan5 ...and the reason why such trivial PRs are often left lying around is that barely any of the devs has available time right now
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11:05 sfan5 merging game#2631
11:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2631 -- Fix respawn not working at all when suitable position was not found by sfan5
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12:57 Krock sfan5: yes, looks good
12:58 Krock opening a PR for that collision stuff
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13:09 kilbith still not added to the milestone...
13:11 Krock #9591
13:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9591 -- Revert collision tweaks #9365 and #9327 by SmallJoker
13:11 Krock kilbith: where?
13:11 kilbith sfan5, I haven't seen you paying attention to the formspec PRs at all but marking hypertext as unstable in the docs, that you can do with enthusiasm
13:12 kilbith great style
13:12 sfan5 not sure where you are reading enthusiasm into my actions
13:12 kilbith that thumb up to this PR (marking unstable) and merging
13:13 kilbith and btw this "no avalaible time" is a BS argument
13:13 kilbith first off, we are all locked up
13:13 sfan5 yes, I agreed with that PR
13:13 kilbith and you have time to create new PRs
13:15 kilbith I find it quite paradoxical to let it mark stuff as "unstable" while not reviewing small fixes aside... this is pure laziness
13:15 kilbith you are probably too buzy jerking off in front of your hentai
13:15 kilbith hmmm?
13:16 sfan5 I rarely go through my notifications backlog to look at PRs that were posted weeks before, so that should explain why the others are left lying around
13:17 kilbith Krock, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9573 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9583
13:17 sfan5 I would too like to know why everyone else doesn't have much time considering corona is currently a thing, but I can't look into other people's reallife
13:17 kilbith and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9319
13:17 Krock kilbith: not game breaking, thus no milestone
13:17 Krock although it's trivial enough to be merged
13:17 sfan5 regarding you last comment, I cannot think of a reason why you'd think such comments are productive in any way
13:18 sfan5 in fact you had been banned before for making inappropriate comments at coredevs, it should be in your interest not to repeat that
13:18 kilbith I don't care sfan5
13:18 kilbith it's not of my interest to do that
13:18 sfan5 I get that you're upset at easy fixes not being merged, but we cannot personally care for hypertext just because you are commercially developing it
13:19 kilbith it's for the people who actually play the game
13:19 sfan5 every PR receives equal amount of dev attention, often enough that is none
13:19 sfan5 if you cared about the general benefit of the Minetest community, you would also know better than to start shit with devs
13:20 Krock can you please stay civilized in here?
13:22 sfan5 that said, one or two of those PRs are definitely trivial enough that they don't risk causing any problems and I'd be fine with merging them for 5.2
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13:24 kilbith this is probably my last release with MT, my contract ends in June
13:27 sfan5 if I may ask, do you plan to keep working on education-related things?
13:28 kilbith not at all!
13:29 kilbith I plan to knock the door of Ubisoft
13:33 kilbith sfan5, regarding that Windows DPI's PR, there's certainly a macro to distinguish Windows 10 from the other versions
13:34 Krock WINVER
13:34 sfan5 sure but the displaycaps thing does work in w10, doesn't it?
13:34 sfan5 ...
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13:35 kilbith I lose the connection everytime my iPhone moves
13:36 kilbith wouldn't that be safer to use GetDpiForWindow?
13:36 sfan5 safer? no idea, the result of the two should be exactly the same
13:37 sfan5 the new w10 api can also support runtime dpi switching, but that can't be easily implemented in MT and would require support from Irrlicht too
13:38 Krock well, Minetest could register a hook, and forward that to Irrlicht. Not worth the effort, though. A constant DPI value on startup is good enough
13:39 Krock whereas "forward" would probably be to re-initialize the render
13:41 sfan5 oh and even if you use the new api, unless you opt in to runtime switching (using the exe manifest) you never get notified of changes anyway
13:41 sfan5 ..which is what leads me to believe the APIs return the exact same value
13:42 Krock #9591 btw
13:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9591 -- Revert collision tweaks #9365 and #9327 by SmallJoker
13:43 Krock will merge trivial #9554 in 10 minutes
13:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9554 -- Fix 'the the' typos in comments by lnjX
13:44 Krock sfan5: thank you for updating the translations, looking towards a release this weekend
13:44 sfan5 sure
13:44 Krock will check the changelog to update it
13:44 sfan5 figuring out where the steps are documented was roughly the hardest part
13:45 Krock sorry, I could've helped you out if I had more time in the past few days
13:52 Krock merging
14:04 sfan5 merging #9583 in 10m
14:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9583 -- Fix cursor still visible after closing formspec while on HyperText by pyrollo
14:17 sfan5 almost on time
14:29 rubenwardy Lockdown changes nothing for me - I still have the same hours of work. In fact, it may even be harmful because I'm less likely to look at Mt when I'm in a bad mood, which I will be when stressed and at home all day
14:33 rubenwardy I can spend some time on mt today though
14:34 rubenwardy And I'll probably make minetest my "job" if I'm furloughed in a few weeks
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17:08 rubenwardy ok, reviewed those two bug fix PRs
17:08 rubenwardy anything else I can do?
17:11 rubenwardy dev meeting tonight  Krock nore sfan5 sofar ?
17:11 sfan5 sure
17:12 Krock will be here
17:12 rubenwardy I'm free anytime, no plans
17:41 sfan5 https://old.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/fuvsdp/weird_texture_glitch/
17:41 sfan5 recently I've heard of 3 people who experience this glitch
17:41 sfan5 thankfully the object shading changes in 5.2 seem to have accidentally fixed it
17:41 sfan5 because otherwise I'd have no idea why this is suddenly broken
17:53 Krock also players reporting the wireframe glitch
17:58 rubenwardy edits Meetings:    500 Internal Server Error
17:58 rubenwardy hurray
17:58 rubenwardy and magically worked
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18:00 rubenwardy !dev Meetings
18:00 ShadowBot Meetings - Minetest Developer Wiki -- http://dev.minetest.net/Meetings
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18:07 Krock network desync?
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18:10 sfan5 the only potential problem I know of is that the client has a budget of 100ms for packet processing per step
18:10 sfan5 but that should be more than enough
18:12 rubenwardy I'm updating the credits now
18:12 rubenwardy I'm waiting for the person to submit a bug report
18:16 Krock err
18:16 Krock somebody re-organized the changelog
18:24 rubenwardy GUI changes were in multiple categories, along with scripting changes
18:27 rubenwardy what change didn't you like?
18:29 Krock hmm yes
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18:30 Krock I just tried to re-use the previous naming scheme, but probably I added a few points to the wrong category
18:32 rubenwardy #9592
18:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9592 -- Sometimes certain packets don't go from server to client
18:33 Krock interesting arm
18:38 rubenwardy wip credits  #9593
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9593 -- [WIP] Update credits for 5.2.0 by rubenwardy
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18:42 DS-minetest (I'd like to get referred to as "DS" ^_^)
18:42 rubenwardy ok
18:45 sfan5 hmm there's one thing I forgot about
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19:00 sfan5 #9594
19:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9594 -- Builtin: Make item entities glow less by sfan5
19:01 sfan5 I remember someone saying they supported this, but I couldn't find that
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19:03 rubenwardy should ShadowNinja be moved to previous core developers, given that they haven't made a contribution since 2018, and before then 2017?
19:03 rubenwardy do we have guidance on when that move happens?
19:05 rubenwardy "for comparison: an unlit item"   ->  this made me cackle
19:06 sfan5 previous coredevs is only used for people that explicitly left (I think?)
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19:07 rubenwardy I don't think pilzadam, sapier, or kahrl ever explicitly left
19:08 sfan5 hm
19:08 sfan5 can def.light_source ever be nil? adding a check is safer either way
19:09 Krock light_source = 0,
19:09 Krock item.lua L736
19:09 rubenwardy it can't
19:09 rubenwardy I also just checked
19:10 sfan5 what if some mod goes around and sets it to nil?
19:10 Krock they don't.
19:10 rubenwardy hm
19:10 rubenwardy is the default stuff a meta table or a copy?
19:10 sfan5 well ok
19:10 rubenwardy either way, it'll default to the default stuff if the mod sets it to nil
19:10 rubenwardy I don't mind the check necessarily
19:14 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fe046fab8aa0bde610f8828fb1c3fc014cf7e193
19:15 sfan5 at that time, ShadowNinja applied the "no recent contribs -> sort them out" to coredevs too
19:15 Krock brb
19:15 rubenwardy I made that commit
19:15 rubenwardy and I didn't - I updated based on people leaving the team
19:15 rubenwardy actually no
19:15 rubenwardy I did apply that to core devs too
19:15 sfan5 oh, misread
19:17 rubenwardy if the cut off for moving a core dev is the past release + a few months, then sofar is just in there :D
19:20 Krock don't add "[Fixes]" if you don't nkow what they did
19:20 rubenwardy lol
19:20 rubenwardy I add fixes when I scroll down the list, and see lots of fixing commits
19:20 rubenwardy which don't fit a particular categort
19:20 Krock well then :)
19:21 rubenwardy lol
19:23 Krock so merging #9594 and #9591 in a few minutes?
19:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9594 -- Builtin: Make item entities glow less by sfan5
19:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9591 -- Revert collision tweaks #9365 and #9327 by SmallJoker
19:24 sfan5 I wish I could ask paramat for his opinion on 9594 but he's not here
19:24 Krock sfan5: like "Formspec", and "Script API", "builtin" is also a certain code area
19:24 Krock probably not exact, but the most accurate you could get
19:24 rubenwardy the credits should be user facing really
19:24 rubenwardy along with the changelog
19:25 sfan5 oh I found it
19:27 Krock great :)
19:27 Krock so merging these two PRs now
19:27 Krock done
19:27 Krock forum topic - is anything prepared yet?
19:28 sfan5 no but I usually do that when it's time
19:28 Krock and this time around also when the forums work again
19:29 sfan5 would be helpful though if someone could list the 5 most important features :)
19:29 Krock game#2566 is still open
19:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2566 -- Fix beds by An0n3m0us
19:29 Krock move to 5.3.0
19:29 sfan5 agreed
19:29 Krock moved.
19:29 Krock - Hypertext Formspec element
19:29 Krock - Object shading
19:30 Krock - Documentation improvements
19:30 Krock - New sky API functions
19:30 sfan5 i don't think users care about the documentation much
19:30 Krock - New bugs to fix later
19:31 Krock - Pathfinder improvements
19:31 Krock - Altered ObjectRef livecycle
19:31 Krock - 9-slice buttons
19:32 Krock ... + styling
19:32 Krock I think that's about the most important stuff
19:33 Krock the other changes are really just bugfixes, and stuff that's not too important for a short read
19:35 Krock rubenwardy: so you want #9582 in 5.2.0? I tested it too, and it works. but I think leaving this discussion after the release would be helpful
19:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9582 -- Fix hovercolor not working in global tag by pyrollo
19:35 Krock deding-wise
19:36 Krock *design-wise
19:36 rubenwardy so, fixing it to the documented behaviour is trivial
19:36 rubenwardy but it may cause problems later
19:36 rubenwardy I think the documented behaviour is fairly valid
19:38 Krock * `hovercolor`: Color of <action> tags when mouse is over.
19:39 Krock that's why there's "<tag .."
19:39 Krock fair, if there are more elements that make use of "hovercolor", it might make more sense
19:40 rubenwardy well, I don't mind either way
19:41 Krock oh my.. so many PRs to review after the release
19:42 rubenwardy idk
19:42 rubenwardy *ikr
19:42 rubenwardy priority being with fixing Android support
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20:44 rubenwardy I hate bundler/gem so much
20:45 rubenwardy it never works
20:46 rubenwardy programming language package managers that install system-wide by default need to die already
20:46 sfan5 I never actually test my changes to the website because I don't want to touch ruby
20:47 Wuzzy were any new settings added to -dev?
20:47 Wuzzy i ask because of settingtypes.txt
20:48 rubenwardy python/pip at least has virtual envs
20:48 Wuzzy ah, indeed
20:48 rubenwardy I can check that
20:48 Wuzzy sorry, there are indeed more settings
20:48 sfan5 I ran the script yesterday and it did not make any changes to settingtypes.txt
20:48 Wuzzy which script?
20:49 Wuzzy I found a new setting: font_path_bold
20:49 sfan5 generate_from_settingtypes.lua
20:49 Wuzzy did not exist in 5.1.1
20:49 Wuzzy o_O
20:49 rubenwardy it's incredibly stupid how it's done, I hate it
20:49 Wuzzy looks like the script managed to miss font_path_bold then :/
20:49 rubenwardy also, settingstypes.txt is a source file
20:49 sfan5 uh well
20:50 Wuzzy and indeed: no german translation for the new font_* settings, neither in PO nor weblate
20:50 sfan5 it generates minetest.conf.example, settings_translation_file.cpp FROM settingtypes.txt
20:50 rubenwardy if there's a new setting that isn't in there then it won't be in  minetest.conf.examples
20:50 Wuzzy i mean source string
20:50 rubenwardy yeah
20:50 sfan5 so whoever added the setting didn't add it to settingtypes.txt
20:50 Wuzzy huh
20:50 Wuzzy it shows up in all settings O_O
20:51 sfan5 >./builtin/settingtypes.txt:font_path_bold (Bold font path) filepath fonts/Arimo-Bold.ttf
20:51 Wuzzy font_path_bold (Bold font path) filepath fonts/Arimo-Bold.ttf
20:51 Wuzzy so its in settingtypes.txt
20:51 Wuzzy notice how this doesn't have a description prepended by #
20:51 Wuzzy maybe the script chokes on settings that don't have a long description
20:51 Wuzzy ?
20:52 sfan5 ./po/de/minetest.po:msgid "Bold font path"
20:52 Wuzzy wat.
20:52 sfan5 ..?
20:52 Wuzzy ok
20:53 sfan5 https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/minetest/minetest/en/?q=%22Bold+font+path%22&amp;checksum=&amp;offset=1#translations
20:53 sfan5 it very clearly exists
20:53 Wuzzy ok ok  i'm recompiling haha. sorry
20:53 Wuzzy what did you do to make weblate update? I'm just curius how it works
20:53 Wuzzy (also for the devwiki :P)
20:53 sfan5 https://dev.minetest.net/Translating#How_to_merge_translations_from_Hosted_Weblate
20:55 Wuzzy "A good schedule is once per month." << that doesn't actually happen, right? reality is "once per release"
20:55 Wuzzy unless i'm mistaken
20:55 sfan5 correct
20:55 sfan5 and I think that's fine as long as it's done early enough (on feature freeze)
20:57 Wuzzy hmmmm maybe there were more updates that i missed
20:57 Wuzzy because the bold strings are clearly in weblate which are all new
20:58 Wuzzy i know those did not appear recently
20:58 Wuzzy maybe someone pushed an update and i missed it 😀
20:58 Wuzzy so that would mean i was wrong
20:59 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/987b2c5f372ea30e90f3d83dd9e76c2286a14a34 < this one added "Bold font path"
21:01 Wuzzy no i did not mean the commit itself, i meant the moment when weblate was triggered
21:01 Wuzzy but i see now that "updating weblate" requires quite a few (boring) steps. i see now why its not done so often 😀
21:01 sfan5 yes, I linked the translation update commit
21:01 sfan5 you can be sure weblate was updated on the same day
21:02 Wuzzy oops i assumed you meant the commit that added the feature (didn't click)
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21:07 sfan5 hm
21:07 sfan5 rubenwardy: you didn't have a chance yet to test the Raspberry Pi build I linked did you?
21:07 rubenwardy I didn't yet
21:07 sfan5 thought so
21:07 rubenwardy I can pull it out now
21:08 rubenwardy I didn't have a keyboard when you sent a link, I do now
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22:22 rubenwardy sfan5: build seems to work well, albeit slowly
22:22 rubenwardy still waiting for media to load
22:23 sfan5 i'm glad that it works at all
22:23 rubenwardy i think the slowly thing is more the RPi than the build
22:23 rubenwardy ah, loaded
22:23 rubenwardy a glorious 1 FPS
22:24 sfan5 hm that's not better than I had with my rpi1
22:24 rubenwardy I have an RPi 3 B+
22:24 rubenwardy it's emulated graphics
22:24 rubenwardy RPi 4s have integrated graphics
22:25 sfan5 what does the window title show as renderer?
22:25 rubenwardy OpenGL ES-CM 1.1 Mesa 19.3.2
22:25 sfan5 hm that's not indicative if it's software rendering or not
22:26 sfan5 ogles2 should work too, btw
22:26 sfan5 output from eglinfo should suffice to confirm the actual driver
22:28 rubenwardy ogles2 is much slower - draw time 600ms
22:29 rubenwardy it's possible my CPU is thermal throttling
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22:34 rubenwardy there are a bunch of errors, not sure if they're bad
22:34 rubenwardy 1 sdc
22:34 kilbith rubenwardy: I'm perplex about that "number of changes" criteria, e.g. a small fix of 3 LOC can take long to find out and that's something you cannot evaluate from an algorithm
22:37 rubenwardy I'll re-run it with a flat weighting
22:37 rubenwardy it's supposed to be correct on average rather than correct for everything
22:37 rubenwardy but a flat weighting might have a similar affect and be more fair
22:38 sfan5 number of commits does not necessarily indicate hours of work either, it's just a heuristic after all
22:38 rubenwardy yeah
22:38 kilbith or just drop the contributor list
22:38 kilbith the "ego" list
22:38 rubenwardy a weighting of a point for any contribution gives the same names
22:39 rubenwardy perhaps the "active contributors" list should be _all_ contributors since the last release
22:43 sfan5 rubenwardy: could you run `eglinfo` on your pi and pastebin the output?
22:43 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
22:43 rubenwardy I don't have the installed, I'll google it
22:43 sfan5 should be
22:43 sfan5 mesa-utils-extra
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22:53 rubenwardy !title https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/c3830f421a8dbfa398f077a3e12cda65
22:53 ShadowBot rubenwardy: RPi 3 B+ info · GitHub
22:54 sfan5 the jpeg thing is my fault, no idea what's up with the second warning
22:54 sfan5 the eglinfo output still doesn't give me what I was hoping for
22:54 sfan5 but thanks for testing so far
22:56 sfan5 hm, did you enable support for the GL driver in raspi-config?
22:56 rubenwardy I didn't touch anything
22:56 rubenwardy it's a fresh install, as-of an hour ago
22:57 rubenwardy because somehow my previous was bricked
22:57 sfan5 heh, classic
22:57 rubenwardy I think it wasn't booting because my external hard drive wasn't plugged in?
22:57 rubenwardy there was nothing of value on the rpi, and I couldn't be bothered to get the power supply for my external hard drive, so just wiped the sdcard
23:01 sfan5 try enabling the GL driver please
23:13 rubenwardy sfan5:   I have three options    G1 legacy,  g2 gl fake mks,    g3 gl full kms
23:14 rubenwardy number 3?
23:14 sfan5 not sure if KMS matters but pick 3 yeah
23:18 rubenwardy so much better, it's now 20FPS
23:19 rubenwardy I'll try gles2
23:20 sfan5 nice
23:21 rubenwardy ogles2 gives me 10FPS (75-80ms).   I'm measuring it by opening the same world, letting it load, then point to the same position
23:21 rubenwardy not entirely scientific
23:22 sfan5 does the window title show something else?
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23:23 rubenwardy it does
23:23 rubenwardy OpenGL ES 2.0 Mesa 19.3.2
23:23 rubenwardy I'll copy the glinfo in a sec
23:23 sfan5 well that's not very different from "OpenGL ES-CM 1.1 Mesa 19.3.2"
23:24 sfan5 so I wonder how Minetest would detect that it's using software rendering
23:24 rubenwardy it is still  "OpenGL ES-CM 1.1 Mesa 19.3.2" when using ogles1
23:25 sfan5 hm, maybe have to read GL_RENDERER
23:26 sfan5 if you feel like testing more, I'd also like to know whether you consider it playable for general use
23:26 sfan5 and perhaps which graphics settings could be tweaked to make it more playable
23:26 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/0d9ead3fe07ad2681eaf9102c6e4de43
23:27 sfan5 the reason I am asking all this is that I think we should provide official builds for the Raspberry Pi (downloadable .debs or perhaps a repository)
23:27 rubenwardy yeah, sounds good
23:27 rubenwardy it would also be nice to have build flags to remove features that may be intensive
23:27 sfan5 because distros will build with OpenGL which tends(?) to be slower and we also don't get the opportunity to set optimized defaults for weak GPUs
23:27 rubenwardy I'm not sure what
23:28 sfan5 I remember Krock saying that stars take lots of render time
23:28 rubenwardy even during day time?
23:28 rubenwardy maybe I should profile, but the problem with that is cpu vs gpu time
23:28 sfan5 I hope they aren't rendered during day time :D
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