Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2020-03-09

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:07 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
04:02 Taoki joined #minetest-dev
08:38 ShadowNinja joined #minetest-dev
08:42 fluxflux_ joined #minetest-dev
09:42 Beton joined #minetest-dev
09:42 df458 joined #minetest-dev
10:21 erlehmann joined #minetest-dev
10:36 proller joined #minetest-dev
10:49 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
12:37 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
13:17 nepugia joined #minetest-dev
14:24 absurb joined #minetest-dev
14:44 Andrey01 joined #minetest-dev
14:46 erlehmann joined #minetest-dev
15:19 nepugia joined #minetest-dev
15:40 fluxflux_ joined #minetest-dev
16:31 proller joined #minetest-dev
16:59 calcul0n_ joined #minetest-dev
17:23 proller joined #minetest-dev
17:27 DS-minetest joined #minetest-dev
18:16 DS-minetest joined #minetest-dev
18:20 calcul0n__ joined #minetest-dev
18:36 Wuzzy joined #minetest-dev
19:19 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
19:40 Krock rubenwardy: easy fix #9392
19:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9392 -- guiHyperText: Fix blinky cursor on link hover by SmallJoker
19:41 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
19:42 Krock #9458 looks dangerous to me. Mods that don't check for it, or user input for unknown nodes could result in a server shutdown
19:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9458 -- minetest.get_content_id: error on unknown node by HybridDog
19:45 Krock hmm.. but that's still better than the old side-effects where fire spawned on invalid nodes
19:56 Krock plantlife modpack, mg and ethereal work. No problem then.
19:56 sys4 joined #minetest-dev
20:03 Krock Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9481#issuecomment-596716008 ???
20:04 Wuzzy !!!
20:04 Krock the bug is clearly gone if you revert that commit
20:04 Wuzzy wait, what?
20:04 Wuzzy ohhhhhh, its not in the repo yet?! loool
20:05 Krock no? it would be nonsense, especially because the PR author is active
20:05 Wuzzy i didn't follow the bug too closely tbh...
20:06 Wuzzy ok if you already worked out a solution, great ^^
20:06 Wuzzy oh this reminds me
20:07 Wuzzy in MCL2 the creative tabs look different and uglier in -dev now. not reported so far...
20:07 Krock probably due to the style changes
20:08 rubenwardy please report with a screenshot :)
20:08 Krock take the opportunity to style[]-fix them entirely
20:09 Wuzzy compiling takes so long when you start from 0...
20:09 Krock Wuzzy: 30 minutes on a Celeron D 346
20:10 Wuzzy ooofff
20:10 Wuzzy ok its not THAT bad on my side at least
20:11 Wuzzy Krock: well i shouldnt be required to make any changes to formspec, really. its still a regression, technically
20:11 Wuzzy but on the other hand, formspecs are still in flux, sooooooo...
20:11 rubenwardy mlc2 also crashes in latest dev because of use of get_connected_players
20:11 Krock up to you. luck-based whether someone will fix it
20:12 Wuzzy lol so you're ok with releasing with regressions? 😀 ... dont worry, bug report will arrive eventually
20:12 Wuzzy what's wrong with get_connected_players?
20:12 rubenwardy it can no longer be called during load time
20:12 rubenwardy well, it can, but it returns nil
20:13 Krock a quick fix would probably to return an empty table there
20:13 Wuzzy ah, i see, so you are working hard on version 6 then, 🙂 as its clearly a breaking release 😆
20:13 rubenwardy I don't like that change in behaviour
20:13 Krock which would be compatible, but wrong
20:13 Wuzzy btw what is the rule for bumping the 5 in "5.1.1"?
20:14 rubenwardy breaking changes
20:14 Wuzzy 6.0.0 confirmed!!! 😆
20:14 rubenwardy undocumented and undefined behaviour doesn't count
20:14 rubenwardy get_connected_players during load time is undefined
20:14 rubenwardy apparently
20:14 rubenwardy I don't like the player/object/entity API, it sucks
20:14 Wuzzy why was get_connected_players changed anyway? whats the reason?
20:14 rubenwardy a player should be separate to an object imo
20:15 rubenwardy bug fixes
20:15 rubenwardy sfan5 ^
20:15 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> a player should be separate to an object imo     //     as in,   player:get_object()
20:15 Wuzzy i don't understand
20:15 sfan5 it was needed for something I planned to do and left in because it's generally a good idea
20:15 sfan5 but you could revert it today and things would also work
20:16 Wuzzy as i understand, its like this: the general thing is "object". and players and luaentities basically "inherit" from object (OOP-style). correct?
20:16 rubenwardy an object is a moving thing in the world
20:16 Wuzzy yes
20:16 rubenwardy imo, a player should have an object but not be an object
20:16 rubenwardy but this can't be changed
20:17 Wuzzy why should it not be an object? o_O players are moving creatures
20:17 Krock Players and Lua Entities share the common ObjectRef functions, and are inheritance-like
20:17 DS-minetest but objects are abstract; player objects can't be moved arbitrarily
20:17 Wuzzy yeah this really sucks indeed
20:17 rubenwardy composition over inheritence, a player should have an object but the player itself (and associated methods like hud_add) should be a separate object
20:18 rubenwardy the relevance of this is that the rationale for get_connected_players returning nil is because there is no environment at that time
20:18 Wuzzy sounds like something for the wiki. "List of breaking changes" or whatever
20:18 Wuzzy i doubt MCL2 is the only victim...
20:18 rubenwardy it's not a breaking change formally
20:19 rubenwardy but it does break things
20:19 Wuzzy > * `minetest.get_connected_players()`: returns list of `ObjectRefs`
20:19 rubenwardy and I disagree with the above rationale
20:19 rubenwardy get_connected_players() returning an empty list does make sense, there are no players connected
20:19 rubenwardy get_node() returning nil makes sense because there is no world
20:19 DS-minetest suggestion: make get_connected_players() return {} on load time but also print a warning
20:19 Wuzzy so just return an empty list then?
20:20 rubenwardy https://rwdy.uk/G15EV.png
20:20 Wuzzy thank you
20:20 rubenwardy it's rendering with a border when it shouldn't be
20:20 rubenwardy I wonder if the button element itself asks for a border?
20:20 Wuzzy its not just the border... its the whole gray button thing
20:20 rubenwardy the gray button is called a border
20:20 rubenwardy it's a stupid irrlicht term
20:20 DS-minetest if done correctly, get_node and co. should raise an error on load time, like register_* errors in runtime
20:20 Wuzzy ...
20:21 rubenwardy which also appears in the API
20:21 Wuzzy rubenwardy: so previously, these image buttons were just the icons, the rest was transparent
20:21 Wuzzy rubenwardy: I also got a lot of MCL2 crashing due to set_sky changes 🙁
20:22 sfan5 report a bug
20:22 rubenwardy report two bugs
20:22 Wuzzy ... dont worry
20:22 Wuzzy ... later
20:23 rubenwardy later sounds like forget
20:23 rubenwardy :D
20:23 Wuzzy anyway i am most happy with the new sky stuff
20:24 Wuzzy finally sun and moon are *actually* texturable
20:24 Wuzzy not just in texture pack 😛
20:25 rubenwardy I think the get_connected_players() change should be counted as a breaking change, as the method is documented in a "misc" section with no mention about not being available at load time
20:25 Wuzzy i still dont understand. why not just return {}? thats a perfectly valid and logical return value (as no players are, in fact, connected?
20:25 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> the rationale for get_connected_players returning nil is because there is no environment at that time
20:26 df458 joined #minetest-dev
20:26 Wuzzy well i disagree with the rationale
20:26 Wuzzy this is just one more annoying special value we need to check then
20:26 rubenwardy df458: <rubenwardy> https://rwdy.uk/G15EV.png
20:26 sfan5 there's still opportunity to change it you know
20:26 Wuzzy {} for implicity
20:27 Wuzzy yes but I'm afraid everyone is opposed
20:27 Wuzzy simplicity*
20:27 Wuzzy rubenwardy: fun fact: I still did not use formspec_version 3 to this day...
20:27 rubenwardy :'(
20:28 Wuzzy transforming the coordinates from old to new is a herculean task
20:28 Wuzzy the "fun" part of the fact is because i was one of the strongest proponents of consistent coords...
20:28 rubenwardy I think you can do    `formspec_version[3]size[1,1]real_coordinates[false]`
20:28 rubenwardy I didn't say that
20:28 Krock you also don't need formspec_version 3 unless there are changes in the parameter count of elements and you want to keep it backwards compatible
20:29 Wuzzy in fact, i never asked for the coord system to be *compleely* reworked. i only wanted that all formspec elements use the same system
20:29 Wuzzy i find it MUCH harder to build formspecs in version 3 tbh
20:29 rubenwardy I find it much easier
20:29 Krock > i only wanted that all formspec elements use the same system
20:29 Krock that's the same thing
20:30 Wuzzy not exactly
20:30 Krock without a rework this would not be possible
20:30 Wuzzy one of the existing systems could have been kepts
20:30 Wuzzy but all old systems were thrown away, so theres 0 compability
20:30 Wuzzy which means i have 100% of the work :X
20:30 Krock some were roughly kept, like inventory lists and button x/y positions IIRC
20:31 Wuzzy new coord system isnt based on inventory slot sizes.
20:31 Krock everything else just had any scaling factor
20:31 rubenwardy the new coordinate system uses inventory slot sizes but not the padding or spacing
20:31 Wuzzy what i like about version 1 is that i get the inventory slot offsets "for free". in version 3 i get nothing for free anymore, i have to start from 0 🙁
20:31 DS-minetest parseItemImageButton should probably just do e_btn->setDrawBorder(false);
20:32 rubenwardy I plan to add elements to do padding automatically
20:32 Wuzzy rubenwardy: btw is the distance between inventory slots a fixed number?
20:32 Krock item image buttons don't have borders - do they?
20:32 rubenwardy DS-minetest: it should use the correct default when there is no style
20:32 rubenwardy Wuzzy:  spacing=0.25xY     padding=0.375x0.375
20:32 rubenwardy where Y is some value
20:32 Wuzzy constant value?
20:33 rubenwardy yeah
20:33 Wuzzy k so this is hardcoded?
20:33 rubenwardy padding=typically inset from formspec window edge,   spacing=between elements
20:33 Krock nvm, they do have borders
20:33 rubenwardy yes, in formspec_version 1
20:33 Wuzzy no you dont understand
20:33 Wuzzy i mean the distance between 2 inventory slots in the same inventory list
20:33 Wuzzy i believe this can't be changed, right?
20:33 rubenwardy it cannot
20:34 Wuzzy ah
20:34 rubenwardy there's a few PRs that need to be reworked to use styles
20:34 Krock one inventory slot equals one grid unit
20:34 Wuzzy but if i want to implement those v1 offsets, i have to manually hardcode this formula back into my formspec? :(((((
20:34 Krock remove real_coordinates or convert your code
20:34 rubenwardy yes
20:35 rubenwardy however, the padding and spacing it gives you in formspec v1 isn't that helpful really
20:35 Wuzzy well v1 sucks even more, i definitely WANT to have consistent coordinates
20:35 Wuzzy but maybe i just didnt try hard enough so far
20:35 rubenwardy I plan to have containers that handle padding and layouting
20:35 Wuzzy what I probably need is is a script to convert v1 to v3 (at least the coords)
20:36 Wuzzy doing that by hand is really painful...
20:36 Wuzzy i tried. and almost became mad
20:36 rubenwardy place buttons side-by-side with equal dimensions:     stack[0,0;3,3;horizontal]   button[0,0;0,0;one;One]   button[0,0;0,0;two;two]   stack_end[]
20:36 DS-minetest other gui systems have many different kinds of containers
20:36 rubenwardy yeah
20:37 Wuzzy real games use a GUI library instead of rolling their own ...
20:37 Krock rubenwardy: container[]
20:37 Wuzzy Krock: i dont think thats the same
20:37 rubenwardy naming things like     stack_container[]    gets verbose, but can be done
20:38 DS-minetest container[] just moves; to have spacing like in invlists, you'd have to stretch everything i guess
20:38 Krock oh, I get the point
20:38 Wuzzy formspec_version[number] should be aliased to v[number]
20:38 rubenwardy A stack layouter places its children in a stack - one after another in some directly, with optional padding.
20:38 rubenwardy *direction
20:38 Wuzzy formspec_version is a mouthful
20:39 rubenwardy unfortunately, we can't rename it because otherwise older clients won't like it
20:39 Wuzzy argh!
20:39 Wuzzy yes, thats right
20:39 DS-minetest you only have to write formspec_version once
20:39 Krock luckily it already existed, otherwise this were a pure mess to implement
20:40 Wuzzy what you mean?
20:40 Wuzzy its not like we had formspec_version[] since the start.
20:40 rubenwardy we did
20:40 Krock we did
20:40 Wuzzy ??????
20:40 rubenwardy we've had that since formspecs were added
20:40 DS-minetest it was just added automatically
20:40 Krock it was just not exposed
20:40 rubenwardy it was never incremented from 1
20:40 Krock :3
20:40 Wuzzy .......
20:40 Wuzzy omg
20:40 rubenwardy and also had bugs which made it impossible to use
20:41 rubenwardy luckily those bugs are server-side
20:41 rubenwardy other types of layouts include:     frames (sets all children to equal the frame's position/size),     grids  (makes a table-like thing)       wraps (wraps elements based on available space),     constraint (super complicated equations)
20:41 Wuzzy i see. so it was not exposed for good reason 😀
20:43 rubenwardy these layouters should probably wait until after #9358
20:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9358 -- Formspec Refactor
20:44 rubenwardy all of these also mean that I should probably finish #9189
20:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9189 -- WIP: Add formspec rendering tests by rubenwardy
20:56 Wuzzy hmm i just found this old "High Priority" security-vuln fixing PR: #8059...
20:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8059 -- Add fatal error on missing dependency by rubenwardy
20:57 rubenwardy it's not really a security vulnerability and could break things
21:01 Wuzzy you literally said "caused a security vulnerability on my server"
21:01 rubenwardy doesn't mean it's a security vulnerability
21:02 Wuzzy i dont understand how things could break by refusing to start with bad dependencies...
21:03 Wuzzy so what about "High Priority"? is this wrong, too? 😉
21:04 rubenwardy I don't think it's high priority
21:05 Wuzzy minetest has too many zombie PRs
21:05 Wuzzy i.e. PRs that are kept alive for years but aren't going anywhere
21:05 calcul0n_ joined #minetest-dev
21:12 DS-minetest +
21:13 DS-minetest dev should not be kept stable
21:33 GreenDimond joined #minetest-dev
21:44 mizux joined #minetest-dev
22:14 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
22:14 kilbith I'd have renamed container[] to move[]; and scroll_container[] to container[]
22:15 rubenwardy perhaps
22:15 DS-minetest renaming would break backwards compatibility
22:15 rubenwardy yeah
22:16 rubenwardy I was planning on making `container[]` accept a size at some point, to do clipping and make it a real IGUIElement
22:16 DS-minetest the weird thing with containers is that they dont clip
22:16 rubenwardy which will clean up the offset code in GUIFormspecMenu
22:16 rubenwardy snap
22:16 rubenwardy with that change, you'd have a std::stack<IGUIElement*>
22:16 rubenwardy and then not have any offset code when parsing - you'd just attach it to the current parent
22:17 DS-minetest hm, but guielements still need their rect when they're drawn
22:18 rubenwardy that comes from absolute rect stuff though right?
22:18 DS-minetest it might be better if they just used their parents' relative rect
22:18 rubenwardy it'll be the same as scroll containers, but without the scrolling
22:29 sfan5 2020-03-09 23:29:32: ERROR[Main]: ...netest/bin/../mods/hunger_ng/system/interoperability.lua:26: attempt to call global 'file_exists' (a nil value)
22:29 sfan5 ^ Wuzzy I found one!
22:30 Wuzzy ugh. why do people depend on undocumented features? 😮
22:31 Wuzzy remove file_exists anyway. make them suffer for their heresy 😀
22:34 rubenwardy lol
22:41 sfan5 #9492 sounds like relying on buggy/implmentation-defined behaviour to me, so not worth fixing
22:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9492 -- Regression of image_button appearance
22:51 rubenwardy how do I run my server in gdb such that I can automatically get backtraces?
22:52 rubenwardy preferably sent to a bash command (I have a bash function to send me an email)
22:52 rubenwardy related because I'm attempting to debug a few seg faults and std::bad_allocs on cTF
23:03 sfan5 i had a script for that once five years ago
23:03 rubenwardy yeah, I recall
23:03 sfan5 probably something like gdb -x script.txt minetestserver
23:04 sfan5 where script.txt does run --args --here and bt full and quit
23:04 sfan5 and put that whole thing in a loop in bash
23:04 rubenwardy ohh, that's what -x does
23:04 rubenwardy https://serverfault.com/questions/61659/can-you-get-any-program-in-linux-to-print-a-stack-trace-if-it-segfaults
23:16 rubenwardy it seems to be running all of the commands at once
23:17 sfan5 at once?
23:17 Sokomine joined #minetest-dev
23:18 rubenwardy aha
23:18 rubenwardy got it
23:30 Wuzzy ugh
23:30 Wuzzy the "border" style argument ought to be renamed. dont use stupid irrlich terminology, please
23:31 Wuzzy renaming is still possible, i think. "border" was never in a stable release so far
23:32 rubenwardy it has been in Minetest since 0.4.16 at least
23:32 rubenwardy in the documentation at least
23:32 rubenwardy and in the code since 5.1.0
23:33 rubenwardy s/code/api
23:33 rubenwardy I've been meaning to rename it, it's possible to do so without breaking mods, but I'm not sure on a name
23:34 Wuzzy style[] is new
23:35 Wuzzy i mean "border" in style[] only
23:35 rubenwardy style is in 5.1.0
23:35 Wuzzy thats "new" by minetest standards
23:35 rubenwardy it is, but it's still a stable release
23:35 rubenwardy but it's not that hard to fix
23:36 Wuzzy oops
23:36 rubenwardy I just couldn't decide on an apt name
23:36 Wuzzy i see it now. border is not new .....
23:36 Wuzzy nvm
23:36 Wuzzy i mostly ignored 5.1.0 style because it was incomplete
23:36 rubenwardy it's WIP
23:36 rubenwardy development is incremental
23:37 Wuzzy in -dev it looks in a MUCH more useful state tho
23:37 rubenwardy 5.2.0-dev has had it massively extended, with the required GUI refactors necessary
23:37 rubenwardy yeah
23:37 rubenwardy the new buttons are awesome
23:37 Wuzzy more stuff can be colorized thats a big one
23:37 rubenwardy <3  9 slice buttons
23:37 Wuzzy i am trying to make those work in MCL2 now
23:37 Wuzzy buttons in mcl2 look just wrong atm 😀
23:38 Wuzzy 9-slice buttons was one of Kenney's feature requests btw
23:38 rubenwardy I know
23:38 Wuzzy not that it matters anymore ... haha
23:38 rubenwardy I implemented the feature because of him
23:39 rubenwardy (the feature = 9 slice rendering, I didn't add it to buttons)
23:39 rubenwardy (that was the button wiz)
23:39 Wuzzy but its also a sensible feature to have, after all
23:39 Wuzzy the idea is not new
23:39 rubenwardy no, it's a common technique
23:39 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
23:40 Wuzzy single-image buttons really don't scale well unless they are uber simple
23:42 Wuzzy one thing that constantly annoys me about formspecs is that you must hand-draw the inv slots into the background if you want to use custom imgs...
23:42 Wuzzy Pixture found a nice workaround for this, tho
23:42 calcul0n joined #minetest-dev
23:42 rubenwardy why can't use use background[]?
23:42 rubenwardy background[3,4;1,1;image;false]
23:43 rubenwardy then I think you can use a transparent slot color
23:43 rubenwardy not sure on that
23:43 Wuzzy seems i dont understand background[] then
23:44 rubenwardy background has two modes - in one, it acts exactly like an image (auto clip = false),     in the other it stretches to cover the formspec (auto clip = true)
23:44 rubenwardy in formspec v3, the former mode of background and image are identical
23:44 Wuzzy but i still need to draw ALL inventory slots by hand?
23:44 Wuzzy instead of just a single one, which is repeated
23:44 rubenwardy like, the former mode is only needed because formspec v1 and v2 don't support custom layers
23:44 rubenwardy you can draw a single one, and use a for loop to copy it
23:44 rubenwardy like how hotbar slots are done
23:45 Wuzzy yeah thats the workaround i was talking about 😀
23:45 rubenwardy it's not a workaround really, it's composition
23:45 Wuzzy baking all the slots into a single background is a really bad idea imo
23:45 rubenwardy you don't need to
23:45 Wuzzy which is what MCL2 does ...
23:45 Wuzzy *oops*
23:45 rubenwardy you can reuse the background multiple times
23:46 rubenwardy MTG get_hotbar_bg uses image[] apparently: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/init.lua#L35
23:46 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
23:46 rubenwardy I guess because images draw behind items (eugh, this is that regression again)
23:46 Wuzzy the hotbar image must also have the correct number of slots
23:46 Wuzzy if you want to change the hotbar size, new img required ...
23:47 rubenwardy don't get confused
23:47 rubenwardy the hotbar in the hud requires the correct number of slots
23:47 rubenwardy the hotbar image in the GUI is a single image
23:48 rubenwardy here's the hotbar image for the GUI: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/textures/gui_hb_bg.png
23:48 Wuzzy yes and if you want to switch to, lets say, 5 slots, the gui will break
23:48 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
23:48 rubenwardy no, the image will still work in the GUI
23:48 Wuzzy unless you replace the image that has 5 slots
23:48 rubenwardy because the image only has a single slot in it
23:48 rubenwardy you'll need to change the code to only do 5 slots in that for loop rather than 8
23:48 Wuzzy ugh...
23:49 rubenwardy > for i=0,7,1 do
23:49 Wuzzy more boilerplate
23:49 rubenwardy when we have inventory styling, this will probably be easier \o/
23:49 Wuzzy but i can almost understand why
23:49 Wuzzy what is inventory styling?
23:50 rubenwardy like   `style_type[list.slot;bgimg=mycustomslot.png]`
23:50 Wuzzy That's what I'm talking about! YES
23:50 rubenwardy styling is powerful, but mostly unimplemented
23:51 rubenwardy I created it because I was fed up of having tableoptions, listoptions, bgcolor, blah - having one way to do it is good
23:51 Wuzzy hmmm i still can't style the Esc menu directly, can't I?
23:51 rubenwardy not directly
23:51 rubenwardy only via formspec prepends
23:51 Wuzzy right
23:52 Wuzzy so its not a solotion for mcl2 them
23:52 Wuzzy i need the formspec_prepend for something different
23:52 rubenwardy in games, you should probably be putting default styles in formspec prepends
23:52 rubenwardy oh dear
23:52 Wuzzy sure
23:53 Wuzzy in mcl2, my formspec_prepend works nicely for my normal formspec but it makes the Esc menu look kind of ugly
23:53 rubenwardy I'll TAL
23:53 rubenwardy hmm, not sure if that's an actual acronym - take a look
23:53 Wuzzy TAL?
23:53 rubenwardy oh, found another crash. That's fun
23:54 Wuzzy =)
23:54 rubenwardy in set_sky in MCL2
23:54 Wuzzy its not my fault set_sky's compability suddenly broke 😛
23:54 rubenwardy I don't see any styling on the pause dialog
23:54 Wuzzy yes
23:55 Wuzzy i have removed most styling from formspec_prepend
23:55 Wuzzy i havent figured out a nice way to use formspec_prepend for default styling without *also* screwing up the esc menu
23:55 Wuzzy but maybe this will be easier now with the extended styling ...
23:55 rubenwardy what does screwing the esc menu look like?
23:56 Wuzzy hmm i don't remember exactly what it was
23:56 Wuzzy probably i wanted to have a darker background fullscreen shade
23:57 Wuzzy ideally, style/prepend can be set explicitly for those "special" menus
23:57 Wuzzy much less of a headache, i suppose
23:57 Wuzzy but maybe i will find a way now...

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext