Time  Nick         Message
09:12 ANAND        #8834 is ready for review
09:12 ShadowBot    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8834 -- [no squash] Send ActiveObjects along with definitions once connection is established by ClobberXD
17:36 paramat      there are some game PRs that need attention, the new tnt sounds seem good
19:45 rubenwardy   paramat:   I'd like to suggest making a "mobs" branch on Minetest Game were we can add mobs redo, and then strip and polish it
19:46 rubenwardy   I don't want to be the sole person to do that polishing, as it's a big mod
19:46 rubenwardy   I suggest reducing the number of mobs to a core set, and then polishing their animations and behaviour
19:46 rubenwardy   if we can get someone to do that
19:49 sfan5        are you sure we don't want to write stuff from scratch?
19:50 rubenwardy   after 7 years, I'd rather have something done than something done perfectly
19:50 rubenwardy   sofar gave up on his clean implementation
19:51 sofar        gheghe
19:51 sofar        "deprioritized"
19:51 rubenwardy   it would be good to see what problems mobs redo has first, I guess
19:54 rubenwardy   I don't think that we need engine support for mobs
19:54 sofar        I still think my approach would be ideal
19:54 rubenwardy   I do think that we need better related APIs, such as pathfinding
19:54 sofar        you can throw in models and sounds and textures and it would be better
19:54 sofar        you can plug in different pathfinders easily
19:54 sofar        since it's abstracted
19:55 rubenwardy   it's important to have an implementation actually perform well
19:56 sofar        for sure
19:57 rubenwardy   Are there any Minetest mobs mods which use steering behaviours?
19:58 sofar        that's what the sheep in my mod does in a very basic way
19:58 sofar        when you punch it, it runs away from you
19:58 sofar        it changes course if you flank it, too
19:59 sofar        it'll run for a while until it's far enough away, and then calm down again
19:59 sofar        but if you chase it, it'll go much further :)
19:59 rubenwardy   > last updated: 2017
20:01 sofar        yeah I was working on the stone monster and never finished that
20:01 rubenwardy   the restrictive license and CLA is troubling, and is probably dissuading contributors
20:01 sofar        he was going to mimic a stone block and sit in caves
20:01 sofar        I just need to LGPL-2.1 it all
20:02 sofar        surprised I haven't done that yet
20:02 sofar        that was the plan anyway, dumb of me I haven't done it yet really
20:37 paramat      hmm, perhaps mobs redo is too complex? there may be simpler, well coded mobs mods. personally i think MTG only needs very simple mobs, just enough to make the MT app more appealing to help it get downloaded more
20:40 rubenwardy   I think that MTG should have the following mobs:     Some farm animals (sheep for wool, cows for milk, pigs for meat),  predators (wolves),  and rare monsters  (dungeon master, oerkii)
20:41 rubenwardy   I think that the overworld should only have realistic enemies, and the monsters should spawn underground
20:41 paramat      if we insist on something complex, the more chance we won't have time to work on it and maintain it, so then nothing happens. simple is better than nothing
20:41 rubenwardy   and it's good to have uses for each thing, to expand the craft tree
20:44 rubenwardy   paramat, please may you take a look at the prioritising in this board? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1
20:51 paramat      wool is made from cotton, in fact it is cotton. i think it's best to not make this wool/cotton mess worse by changing it back to animal wool. cotton would lose it's primary use. anyway, minor point :)
20:52 paramat      yes looking
20:52 rubenwardy   wool isn't cotton
20:52 rubenwardy   cotton is cotton
20:52 paramat      ugh nerzhul spam, can we do something about this?
20:52 rubenwardy   oh wait, there's a wool mod
20:52 rubenwardy   nevermind
20:56 paramat      cotton is a better source for 'wool' because it only requires farming, not mobs. i think it's best to continue to consider 'wool' to be synthetic wool made from cotton. but anyway, it's a mess, weird how wool was merged, trying to imitate MC, without an animal source =)
20:56 paramat      but nevermind, mobs is the topic
21:06 paramat      i disagree with about half of the things in that project/roadmap (sorry)
21:12 rubenwardy   paramat: which things?
21:13 rubenwardy   paramat: please feel free to remove the things you don't agree with
21:13 rubenwardy   so that it accurately represents consensus
21:15 paramat      i can't face or justify working on mobs-redo, sorry, because it's big and complex (overly complex for MTG in my opinion) and the author is not a good coder
21:17 rubenwardy   well, I guess we need to kidnap sofar then
21:18 sofar        fine
21:19 * sofar      holds up wrists
21:30 paramat      well, i only 'object' to a very few things in the roadmap, which i have removed. there are some other things that i like, but where i feel our limited time is better spent on new games, i won't remove those from the roadmap
21:30 rubenwardy   bahmm
21:30 rubenwardy   it's troubling how there's no other games that are any good
21:31 * rubenwardy looks at Shara awkwardly
21:31 * rubenwardy hasn't contributed to her game in a while
21:41 p_gimeno     how would a mob API look like?
21:42 rubenwardy   finite state machine
21:44 paramat      recently i have been feeling that the only things worth doing in MTG are bugfixing and maintenance, that we shouldn't try to make it into 'MT's impressive game' because it can't be that, because it is an unfixable structural mess and so constrained by everything that depends on it being the way it is
21:45 rubenwardy   How do we get people to make actual good games?
21:47 paramat      MT's 'impressive game' has to be something else, and will be so much better because it isn't MTG so is freer and more modern, and does things in a better way
21:47 pmp-p        rubenwardy: by giving them libs to reduce coding efforts, so they can focus more on game itself
21:48 paramat      i think core devs need to work on new games, can't leave it to modders only, because core devs have so much talent and experience. so i feel we need to divert time from MTG to new games
21:49 * sofar      relicenses
21:56 paramat      it's a tough situation, because it will be a while before a good new game is ready, so that makes us feel we have to work on MTG. however, if we keep focussing on MTG it will delay the new games ...
21:58 paramat      ... considering this, i feel the best thing to do, even though it is painful, is to minimise work on MTG and prioritise working on new games
22:07 paramat      hopefully after november (CERN) we'll all have more time for HW
22:08 rubenwardy   not much has been done for the cern project recently