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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2018-02-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 paramat when drowning in issues and PRs already (and CSM issues) it seems wise to avoid non-essential big changes
00:00 celeron55 i'm looking towards years from now with these
00:01 pgimeno_ celeron55: yes it does, it runs without love2d if you use luajit and have SDL... something to look into is whether it needs luajit for normal operation, as love2d only comes with luajit
00:02 celeron55 well, it won't run out of the box anyway
00:02 celeron55 but SDL support means there's a good point in which to hook up a different backend
00:02 celeron55 being MT
00:08 QwertyCool so if the roadmap doesn't actually indicate what needs to be done for release, what does?
00:08 QwertyCool how do i know where to direct my contribution efforts to be most effective in the team moving forward?
00:13 pgimeno_ celeron55: sorry, I must have misremembered, apparently Luigi doesn't include multiline textboxes either
00:14 pgimeno_ a multiline textbox is difficult, it's pretty much an ascii text editor (and something Irrlicht got terribly wrong)
00:16 paramat QwertyCool we don't have any single document with plans for 0.5, following github threads, especially issues, will give an idea. some are marked with the 0.5 milestone https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issue​s?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0.5.0
00:17 paramat also see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/projects
00:18 paramat there are some PRs labelled as 'adoption needed', some open , some closed
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00:25 QwertyCool what does "release needed" tag mean?
00:26 QwertyCool won't be merged till release?
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00:30 paramat 'rebase'?
00:30 paramat we don't have a 'release needed' label
00:34 QwertyCool sorry yes.
00:34 QwertyCool misread
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14:13 AndroBuilder http://dev.minetest.net/Intro is this still correct? or not since a quick test does not show the png-tile but shows a greenish block :D
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18:58 QwertyCool buenos dias
19:00 ThomasMonroe buenos dias QwertyCool
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19:00 ThomasMonroe comos estas tu?
19:10 Krock ThomasMonroe, QwertyCool, please continue this discussion in #minetest if you consider to carry on
19:10 ThomasMonroe ok Krock
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19:39 pgimeno_ celeron55: I think this library includes most or all widgets that formspecs support, though I'm afraid it's very tightly tied to the engine: https://www.kennyshields.net/git/loveframes/ , also the support for multiline text isn't very complete (it lacks selection and copy/paste)
19:40 pgimeno_ demo here: https://www.kennyshields.net/git/loveframes-demo/ (needs love2d 0.9.1; needs one change in the source to run, namely replacing 'require "libraries.loveframes"' with 'loveframes = require "libraries.loveframes"')
19:43 QwertyCool oh shit, did celeron already code a replacement?!
19:45 pgimeno_ it's worth mentioning that many people in love2d are using imgui through a wrapper lib (imgui is in c++)
19:45 rubenwardy argh
19:46 rubenwardy imgur literally says in it's readme that it's not aimed at end users
19:46 rubenwardy but for programmers and designs
19:46 rubenwardy "Dear ImGui is designed to enable fast iteration and empower programmers to create content creation tools and visualization/ debug tools (as opposed to UI for the average end-user)"
19:47 sfan5 does it look better than irrlichts UI at least?
19:47 rubenwardy yes
19:47 rubenwardy but that's not hard
19:47 sfan5 true
19:47 rubenwardy Irrlicht's GUI is not meant for end users as well
19:48 QwertyCool lel
19:48 rubenwardy At least one of their developers said
19:49 pgimeno_ I grudge Irrlicht's multiline textboxes
19:50 QwertyCool is librocket an option?
19:51 sfan5 what's that?
19:52 rubenwardy it's webkit basicall
19:52 rubenwardy HTML
19:52 rubenwardy librocket.com
19:52 rubenwardy err
19:52 rubenwardy https://github.com/libRocket/libRocket
19:53 QwertyCool or FLTK?
19:53 rubenwardy librocket appears dead
19:55 QwertyCool https://github.com/ocornut/imgui and https://www.wxwidgets.org already discussed?
19:56 rubenwardy "Dear ImGui is designed to enable fast iteration and empower programmers to create content creation tools and visualization/ debug tools (as opposed to UI for the average end-user)"
19:56 pgimeno_ imgui was discussed a few lines ago, wxwidgets doesn't sound like a good idea
19:57 QwertyCool oopps miss read that as ocornut not imgui my bad
19:57 QwertyCool gotcha
19:58 celeron55 librocket is stupid in my opinion
19:58 celeron55 it's way too bloated and we already have a flexible script interpreter in MT
19:59 QwertyCool celeron55: did you already mock something up in imgui?
19:59 pgimeno_ plus what would we be doing if we used it? convert formspec to html then let librocket render the html? sounds like one step too much
19:59 rubenwardy argh
19:59 rubenwardy imgui isn't appropriate
20:00 celeron55 QwertyCool: umm... no, i've done nothing at all
20:00 pgimeno_ celeron55 was asking about Lua GUIs, that's why I brought up one implemented in love2d which uses Lua exclusively
20:00 QwertyCool ThomasMonroe: awaiting your input https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7025
20:01 QwertyCool oh my appologies.
20:01 QwertyCool too many library names, im green
20:03 celeron55 anyway, my entire idea depends on server-provided CSM to work
20:03 celeron55 so it's definitely not something for the near future
20:03 rubenwardy server-provided CSM shouldn't become required
20:04 celeron55 well then you discard the idea completely
20:04 rubenwardy so it should be possible for servers to send GUIs like currently
20:04 celeron55 and IMO CSM can be dropped completely also then
20:04 celeron55 the only reason CSM exists is for it to progress to that eventually
20:05 celeron55 if it doesn't, i might even fork MT
20:05 celeron55 (that might sound ridiculous, but i'm serious)
20:05 rubenwardy a replacement should have very code CSM support
20:05 rubenwardy to allow custom elements and latency reduction
20:06 celeron55 code?
20:06 rubenwardy good
20:06 rubenwardy but it's a bit much to make modders write a csm mod just to show a simple form
20:06 rubenwardy guess they could just use formspecs
20:06 rubenwardy or something very similar
20:06 celeron55 you can always simplify things
20:06 celeron55 for common cases
20:08 celeron55 i'm siding on removing CSM though, and with that, drop this, because i'm lazy and people hate all change
20:09 pgimeno_ celeron55: why did you want the GUI in Lua anyway? just so the GUI code could be sent by the server?
20:09 celeron55 and are used to the current security model of MT
20:10 celeron55 so that the gui can run on the client and be responsive and allow anything a modder wants to do
20:10 celeron55 up to falling back to drawing 2d graphics and not even using the provided gui
20:10 celeron55 or providing their own
20:10 pgimeno_ ah
20:11 celeron55 anyway, some are not willing to ditch the current security model which will stop all attempts at this
20:11 celeron55 so improved formspecs it is
20:12 pgimeno_ the current security model = no server provided csms?
20:12 celeron55 yes
20:15 rubenwardy I'm very much a proponent to client-side scripting
20:16 rubenwardy but we can't be negligent and compromise our users
20:16 pgimeno_ maybe a compromise could be to let the server verify the presence of CSMs... guess that has already been discussed?
20:16 celeron55 the current CSM API is too wide for sure and allows accessing stuff that wasn't necessarily designed to be secure
20:18 pgimeno_ I mean the server could do something like: don't allow the user to log in if this or that CSM isn't installed
20:18 celeron55 i'd probably just have a second one for server-sent stuff or something
20:18 celeron55 not sure how to actually handle this mess
20:19 rubenwardy disable filesystem access completely, and load the scripts from a virtual filesystem
20:19 rubenwardy checking ofc for bytecode
20:19 rubenwardy and don't just luajit
20:20 rubenwardy virtual filesystem is complexity to mess up
20:20 rubenwardy but hopefully not so much as an actual filesystem
20:20 celeron55 why are you talking about filesystems
20:21 rubenwardy second one -> environment?
20:21 celeron55 it literally just needs a list of filename - data pairs
20:21 celeron55 if even that
20:24 celeron55 at this point i'd probably need a different name for the system i want to make and implement it separate from current CSM to work on its side
20:25 rubenwardy remove csm then
20:26 rubenwardy there's no need for csm other than server-provided scripting
20:26 celeron55 there's just the problem that i probably can't find time to make what i want to make, so i'm not sure where i'm going with this
20:27 celeron55 (in a 5-year timespan i might)
20:28 celeron55 (assuming i manage to make someone else do things that i do now)
20:29 celeron55 (this is one of the times when i'd like to just shut down everything and turn them back on once i've had time to think and code)
20:32 celeron55 (anyone happen to fancy a completely outdated 5GB forum? lol)
20:33 rubenwardy storage space isn't so bad with a HDD (but slow)
20:33 rubenwardy phpbb though?
20:33 * rubenwardy shivers in disgust
20:33 QwertyCool celeron, if tou give me instruction i can help you work on the code youd like to writ
20:34 celeron55 rubenwardy: one word: backups
20:35 celeron55 the thing is annoying on many levels, believe me
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22:02 QwertyCool does fontsize change callback function on linux?
22:03 QwertyCool do you need to restart client to see font size change?
22:07 red-001 is there any well tested cross platform way to sandbox a process?
22:08 sofar depends, what resources do you want to sandbox away?
22:08 sofar stack+heap?
22:08 sofar file system?
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22:15 pgimeno_ https://github.com/CodethinkLabs/sandboxlib#​user-content-relationship-to-other-projects
22:15 pgimeno_ ^ red-001
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22:18 sfan5 it really depends on what you want to sandbox?
22:19 sfan5 a process with possibly malicous machine code? a process running a scripting lang interpreter? a processing running a JIT engine?
22:20 red-001 talking in the context on sandboxing the whole CSM/whatever it will be called subsystem
22:21 sfan5 how would you effectively sandbox that without sandboxing the whole of minetest?
22:21 celeron55 i guess it'd communicate by RPC by the rest of MT
22:22 celeron55 or, more like just feed commands in and out through stdin/out 8)
22:22 red-001 I imagine that would be fairly slow
22:22 sfan5 sure but what's the alternative?
22:22 celeron55 well that's what you do
22:22 celeron55 no other options
22:22 sfan5 shared mapped memory would work too, if you're careful
22:22 celeron55 that's how chrome works too afaik
22:22 sfan5 but no sandboxing without performance impact
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23:28 paramat game#2041 is good, might merge later with game#2027
23:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/2041 -- Adjust kelp placement and add selection box by Ezhh
23:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/2027 -- Add marram grass for coastal sand dunes by paramat
23:29 Shara THanks paramat
23:29 Shara Any plantlike_rooted nodes should be done that way really
23:31 Shara paramat: one last thing maybe - thoughts on adding waving = 1 to them as well?
23:32 Shara It apparently works fine, and big plants like that in water would not be still
23:32 sofar do they wave both ways?
23:32 Shara Both ways?
23:32 sofar e.g. plantlike and leaflike waving?
23:33 Shara Now I will need to stare at a leaf to try and work out the difference
23:33 Shara It's plantlike waving from what I can tell, because the base doesn't move
23:34 Shara I wasn't sure if it was supported for this drawtype, but it looks good
23:40 paramat i can try it
23:41 Shara I dropped a gif in the PR thread if you want to check. Seems worth it to me
23:44 paramat yes it's good
23:45 paramat please add
23:45 Shara Gladly. Quite pleased with how that turned out :)
23:47 Shara Done
23:50 QwertyCool https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7007 can i get a final word on this?
23:50 QwertyCool remove the frill error text and resubmit or leave as is
23:51 QwertyCool progess feels like quicksand when there's so many chefs in the kitchen t.t
23:52 paramat looking
23:52 paramat yes i agree with rubenwardy's comment
23:53 paramat will +1 when done
23:54 QwertyCool thanks. will do.
23:54 paramat heh this isn't slow for MT
23:58 paramat since trivial only needs 1 approval (mine), so will be merged soon
23:58 red-001 #7007
23:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7007 -- improving error message in src/map.cpp - closes #6977 by QwertyCoolMT
23:58 QwertyCool paramat: what would be the most helpful thing for me to do in your opinion as someone who's green to c++ and the project?

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