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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2018-01-23

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Time Nick Message
00:07 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
00:20 laudecay joined #minetest-dev
00:23 laudecay have any of you heard about efforts to develop a p2p sort of framework on top of this? my research group is thinking about forking your code and rewriting the engine to add deterministic lockstep and other cool P2P algorithms
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00:33 sofar laudecay: p2p minetest? what parts would you peer? the map data?
00:33 rubenwardy lockstep isn't well suited for this sort of game
00:33 sofar laudecay: in general MT is server centric due to the requirements that players can't just make unauthorized changes
00:34 rubenwardy lockstep is good for RTSes
00:41 red-001 #6951
00:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6951 -- [CSM] Don't create the script environment if CSM is disabled by red-001
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05:03 paramat celeron55 please could you consider my suggestions in https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/5393#issuecomment-359675913 and comment?
05:30 paramat merging #6932
05:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6932 -- Remove CSM screenshot API by red-001
05:38 paramat merged
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06:46 paramat merging game#2015 game#2020 game#2024
06:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/2015 -- default:dirt_with_snow: Re-add to soil group by paramat
06:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/2020 -- Creative: New textures for less distortion by paramat
06:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/2024 -- Dungeon loot: Reduce maximum processed rooms to 8 by paramat
06:51 paramat merged
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14:42 ThomasMonroe #6955
14:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6955 -- Update tab headers by ThomasMonroe314
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14:51 ThomasMonroe red-001, are you going to work on #6048?
14:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6048 -- Add a refresh button to the server list. by red-001
14:59 red-001 ThomasMonroe, not really, not great at user interface design, so if you want to make an icon for it feel free
14:59 ThomasMonroe icons don't actually work in the mainmenu for some reason
15:00 red-001 huh
15:00 red-001 you sure?
15:00 ThomasMonroe the images don't show up at all
15:00 red-001 so how do the subgame icons work?
15:01 ThomasMonroe idk, those aren't lua based as far as I can tell
15:01 red-001 pretty sure they are
15:01 red-001 had to move them for something
15:01 ThomasMonroe at least defining them that is
15:02 ThomasMonroe I can't see anything in the tab_local.lua that would put them there
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15:04 red-001 we really need to get rid of that android menu one way or another
15:04 red-001 either it's too large to work anyways or it locks android users out of features
15:05 red-001 Jordach, you were working on redesigning the menu right?
15:05 ThomasMonroe I'll pick up #6048 if you don't mind me doing that
15:05 ShadowBot ThomasMonroe: Error: Delimiter not found in "Connection timed out."
15:06 ThomasMonroe oops
15:06 ThomasMonroe wait what?
15:06 ThomasMonroe oh nvmd
15:12 red-001 if you want to, sure
15:13 ThomasMonroe ok
15:36 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev
15:37 pgimeno_ I like the idea of 6048. Preferably, with an option to disable refreshing the list by default. That way, when I am going to play locally, I don't have to wait for the list to fill up, and the server also receives fewer requests.
15:38 ThomasMonroe http://imgur.com/Dvz98N1l.png how's this pgimeno_, red-001
15:39 rubenwardy > serveminetest.net
15:42 pgimeno_ lgtm :) (but take my opinion as that of just a user)
15:44 ThomasMonroe ok, here's the PR: #6957
15:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6957 -- Add a refresh button to the serverlist by ThomasMonroe314
15:49 pgimeno_ I guess the same objection as in 6048 will apply
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15:51 ThomasMonroe about the image button?
15:51 ThomasMonroe they don't work in the mainmenu for somereason
15:51 red-001 -1 unless it gets a image button
15:52 red-001 that was the whole reason the first PR was put on hold
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15:54 pgimeno_ 'strace -e trace=open minetest' may help finding out what is trying to open and why it doesn't work
15:54 pgimeno_ (the image in the menu)
16:00 ThomasMonroe i would put a Unicode char in there, but idk how to get Lua to do that
16:02 pgimeno_ if it's supported, it will most likely be UTF-8
16:04 pgimeno_ ↻ maybe?
16:05 ThomasMonroe yes!!
16:05 ThomasMonroe what char was that?
16:06 pgimeno_ that's U+21BB, encoded as \xE2\x86\xBB in Lua
16:06 pgimeno_ in UTF-8
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16:08 red-001 #6954
16:08 ShadowBot red-001: Error: Delimiter not found in "Connection timed out."
16:16 basicer joined #minetest-dev
16:20 ThomasMonroe erm idk if this version of lua supports unicode
16:24 ThomasMonroe er anything higher than UTF-8 that is
16:27 red-001 #6954
16:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6954 -- Remove unused packet IDs and network code. by red-001
16:27 red-001 Megaf, it just breaks sometimes
16:28 Megaf well done red-001, on the cleaning up
16:28 red-001 ~1% of the time it just fails to get the url
16:28 Megaf LGTM
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16:39 ThomasMonroe ugh pgimeno_, it doesn't display the char in the main menu
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17:26 ThomasMonroe !tell Krock I can't get the unicode char ↻ to show up in Lua
17:26 ShadowBot ThomasMonroe: O.K.
17:27 red-001 your daily reminder that #6940 still needs a review
17:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6940 -- Fix issues with earlier CSM HUD commit by red-001
17:28 Krock joined #minetest-dev
17:32 ThomasMonroe hiya Krock
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17:59 lisac nerzhul: can you please review #6946? I've got one approval already.
17:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6946 -- Disable fall damage when "immortal" group set by lisacvuk
18:00 nerzhul lisac, done
18:04 nerzhul merging #6952
18:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6952 -- Intersects_protection(): Move from Minetest Game to builtin by paramat
18:04 lisac yay thanks nerzhul
18:05 Krock nerzhul, while you're at it.. mind doing a 2nd pass on #6787 ?
18:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6787 -- textarea[], field[]: Unify function, fix wrong fallback text by SmallJoker
18:11 nerzhul Krock, erf, i should hide :D
18:12 nerzhul Krock, code is good but i didn't tested it
18:12 * Krock watches nerzhul quickly hiding behind a tree
18:14 Megaf software video renderer totally broken, should I open an issue about it? https://imgur.com/a/LaO4d
18:14 Krock yes, but not on minetest/minetest
18:15 Krock time for irrlicht devs to fix their stuff
18:15 nerzhul Krock, are you still okay for #6946 ?
18:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6946 -- Disable fall damage when "immortal" group set by lisacvuk
18:16 Megaf Krock: it's time for Minetest to stop using this crap
18:16 Megaf yet another bug that we blame on Irrlicht
18:16 sfan5 "we blame on Irrlicht" what?
18:16 sfan5 it is literally Irrlicht's fault
18:17 Megaf +1 reason to not use Irrlicht
18:17 sfan5 not really, the software renderer is not intended for serious use
18:17 Megaf we can just use TuxKarts engine
18:17 sfan5 is this a joke
18:17 red-001 hey I found a way to fix it
18:17 red-001 don't use the software render
18:18 nerzhul red-001, CSM particles are nice, it permits to have local particle which doesnt' polute the server loop everywhere on the map, localized on players :p
18:18 Krock nerzhul, trivial changes all over the place. sure it's still fine
18:18 nerzhul Megaf, i tried to change MT to STK irrlicht and it's not very possible has they heavily change it
18:18 nerzhul red-001, seems your fix is like removing CSM to fix it :D
18:19 red-001 huh which one?
18:19 nerzhul Krock, then you have my approval go ahead
18:19 nerzhul red-001, i do a similar comment as software renderer fix you proposed :D
18:20 Megaf nerzhul: it's a shame, it does look quite good https://supertuxkart.net/An​tarctica:_Technical_Details
18:20 Megaf lots of nice features
18:20 Megaf and working occlusion
18:20 nerzhul maybe but the API is broken :p
18:20 nerzhul and it's a lot of work
18:21 nerzhul i strrted to prepare a such change with many client refactoring, but without properly spliting renderer from client it's very hard to change it
18:21 red-001 yeah architecture is a mess
18:21 nerzhul we have many irrlicht call everywhere in client in many objects
18:22 nerzhul abstracting some changes is needed to make it happen
18:22 Krock merging #6946 and trivial #6953 in ~5 minutes
18:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6946 -- Disable fall damage when "immortal" group set by lisacvuk
18:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6953 -- Add languages missing from settings menu by MuhdNurHidayat
18:22 Megaf nerzhul: what if I just try to build Minetest pointing the irrlicht lib to this directory? https://github.com/supertuxkart/s​tk-code/tree/master/lib/irrlicht
18:23 Megaf and maybe updating the defines stuff
18:23 Megaf wouldnt it work? Or thats what you tried
18:23 sfan5 Megaf: that source directory is not the "Antarctica" engine the wiki page mentions
18:24 red-001 nerzhul, my point with removing obsolute op-code is to make it easier for people of the future trying to find a new free id
18:25 red-001 marking them as obsolete makes it seem like they shouldn't be reused
18:25 nerzhul red-001, we are using less than 10% than the possible ids no ? opcodes are on 16b
18:26 rubenwardy nerzhul, Antarctica is a fork of Irrlicht
18:26 nerzhul rubenwardy, it doesn't mean they keep compat, last time i tried to move to it (2 years ago) MT was totally broken, but API was identical
18:26 rubenwardy so at worse it'll be like changing major versions of Irrlicht - some API breakages
18:27 nerzhul maybe it's better now, but no distro embed it, then we should have a submodule or a copy in our repository
18:27 Krock merging the PRs now...
18:28 lisac two approvals is enough for a merge, right? :)
18:28 lisac hey Krock
18:28 lisac yay
18:28 * lisac has another bugfix merged!
18:29 red-001 nerzhul, huh
18:29 TheBugHunter lisac: o/
18:29 TheBugHunter congrats
18:29 red-001 I thought there was a lot less
18:29 lisac thanks :)
18:30 red-001 so TOSERVER_NUM_MSG_TYPES isn't the max number of opcodes?
18:30 rubenwardy yes
18:31 rubenwardy it's a idiom to automatically get the number of op codes
18:31 Krock depends on what integer type is used to detect that
18:31 TheBugHunter [18:27:03] <nerzhul> maybe it's better now, but no distro embed it, then we should have a submodule or a copy in our repository
18:31 rubenwardy so it must be at the end of the enum list
18:31 TheBugHunter I see now issues there
18:31 TheBugHunter we bundle already jsoncpp, jmp and sqlite3
18:31 TheBugHunter gmp*
18:32 Krock irrlicht is quite heavy and requires other libraries too, do you know that?
18:32 Megaf I think we should NOT bundle jsoncpp and GMP, and bundle instead a/our fork of Irrlicht/other engine
18:32 Megaf And we don't need the whole thing...
18:32 red-001 I suppose I just kinda assumed with all the free space in the packet table the size was hardcoded
18:33 nerzhul Megaf, it's ridiculous to embed irrlicht and not the common libs between server and client
18:34 rubenwardy it's u16 max I believe
18:34 nerzhul embedding jsoncpp and sqlite3 permit to have those librairies up-to-date and stable, and they are tiny
18:34 nerzhul rubenwardy, theorically yes
18:34 red-001 rubenwardy, wow
18:35 rubenwardy tbh, once we reached  1000 0000 we could have made it expanding
18:35 rubenwardy ie: a first bit of 1 means the next byte is used
18:35 rubenwardy nvm, that's unnecessary
18:38 red-001 done #6954
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6954 -- Remove legacy chat network code. by red-001
18:39 Krock as if we ever will need that many different packets
18:39 rubenwardy 64MB is another for anyone!
18:39 rubenwardy in all serious, getting more than 255 would be suprising
18:41 Krock relevant xkcd: https://www.xkcd.com/619/
18:41 red-001 !title
18:41 ShadowBot xkcd: Supported Features
18:42 Megaf dont know if I should work on forking Irrlicht and making a tiny version of it for Minetest or porting Minetest to Antartica
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18:42 sfan5 you don't need to fork Irrlicht if you want a tiny version
18:42 sfan5 there's lot of optional features you can disable by editing irrCompileConfig.h
18:43 Megaf sfan5: I mean, to bundle it in Minetest
18:43 sfan5 we won't bundle Irrlicht, so that would be wasted effort
18:45 Megaf you could bundle µLight, that'd be just hte necessary libs we need
18:46 Megaf (Micro)µLight  = tiny version of Irrlicht
18:46 sfan5 but we won't
18:46 Megaf why not? What's so bad in bundling an essential lib and having control over it?
18:47 rubenwardy more maintenance
18:47 rubenwardy minimal gain
18:48 Megaf What is GMP used for by the way
18:48 rubenwardy Minetest is 20MB all in all
18:48 Megaf it's a Linux mouse lib for the terminal, text mode
18:49 Megaf ah
18:49 Megaf lol
18:49 rubenwardy that's including DLLs, quite often you easily reach that without them
18:49 Megaf its a different gmp
18:55 rubenwardy web#111
18:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/m​inetest.github.io/issues/111 -- Update customize page by rubenwardy
19:00 rubenwardy Calinou: any objections to web#79 ?
19:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/​minetest.github.io/issues/79 -- add new background-downloads.jpg by SpaghettiDeveloper
19:04 Calinou rubenwardy: looks good to me, I can merge it if you want
19:04 rubenwardy I can do it now, have a trivial one too
19:06 rubenwardy Calinou: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest.github.io​/commit/f42be28dced5cc5153413dc431b18179237b0ee1
19:06 rubenwardy also, we should change from GNU/Linux to Linux
19:07 rubenwardy only stallman's fanatics care about the ugly name
19:07 rubenwardy </minortroll>
19:07 red-001 idk I wouldn't risk messing with fanatics
19:08 red-001 plus I hear he was a katana and it's a well known fact that they are the pinnacle of swordsmanship
19:08 red-001 s/was/has but both work
19:09 sfan5 rubenwardy: agree
19:10 Krock I'd like to interject for a moment
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19:11 nerzhul i just pushed a SSM api change #6958
19:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6958 -- Add minetest.bulk_set_node call + optimize Environment::set_node call by nerzhul
19:11 nerzhul (yeah i should work on CSM but i got this idea before :p)
19:11 nerzhul and i got 10 mins to cod ethat
19:12 Krock wrong indents in the docs
19:12 nerzhul too fast for me Krock
19:12 nerzhul but yes :p
19:12 Krock missing + z in line 699
19:12 red-001 huh
19:12 nerzhul no it's normal :p
19:12 red-001 I wonder could we rewrite tnt to use this
19:12 nerzhul i didn't wanted to do a cube :p
19:13 red-001 nvm looks like it wouldn't work
19:13 nerzhul tnt use remove node no ? maybe if this call is pleasant for modders i will push similar thing for remove node :p
19:13 nerzhul but if your prefer a cube in integration test i'm neutral xD
19:13 nerzhul Krock, doc fix pushed
19:13 Krock nerzhul, then your loops make no sense as you don't need the z iteration
19:14 red-001 nerzhul, tnt needs to also read some data, so it needs full voxelmanipl
19:15 nerzhul Krock, exact :p
19:15 rubenwardy merging...
19:15 rubenwardy done
19:16 nerzhul Krock, you achieve me, okay for a cube :p
19:17 Krock :P
19:17 nerzhul and then, i triggered 4 travis builds yeah :p
19:17 red-001 anyone have anything agaist moving chat command handling to core? It would allow autocompleting commands and configuring the command prefix
19:17 nerzhul macosx users will be happy haha
19:17 nerzhul the main registration table ?
19:17 Krock you can abort them easily. usually it has a delay of a few minutes to start running
19:17 red-001 Krock, s/minutes/hours
19:18 red-001 at least for max os
19:18 Krock s/max /mac/
19:18 red-001 s/ //
19:19 red-001 oh nvm they changed the name again
19:19 Krock nerzhul, sorry that I haven't seen it in the first pass but there's a performance improvement possible. reserve the pos_list vector length to `len`
19:20 nerzhul Krock, yeah it's exact i missed that part, i was focused on the lua improvement
19:20 Krock `bool s` is also redundant
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19:20 nerzhul exact
19:21 Calinou rubenwardy: that's ok
19:22 red-001 nerzhul, move detecting commands being issued and the help command to the client, and add tab autocompletion for commands
19:22 nerzhul Krock, done heh
19:22 red-001 on the server side add a new on_chatcommand callback
19:22 nerzhul red-001, then you will send available commands to client ?
19:23 red-001 yes
19:24 red-001 add a new internal api that registers a command and all the data needed for /help and make the chat command code call that
19:24 red-001 kinda like register node
19:29 nerzhul red-001, if it's exactly the current API should be good
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19:38 rubenwardy Calinou, web#112
19:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/m​inetest.github.io/issues/112 -- Move home sub items to root level by rubenwardy
19:57 Megaf uh, help? Linking failing in 0.5 from master. http://paste.debian.net/plain/1006678
19:57 sfan5 -DENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP=1
19:57 sfan5 this keeps happening but we have no idea why so we can't fix it
19:58 Megaf eh, what about was said before about bundling json?
19:58 Megaf :)
19:58 Megaf bundling
19:59 Megaf sfan5: it only happens on 0.5, and I think it only happens on Debian Jessie, it works on Debian Stretch
19:59 Megaf Stretch*
19:59 sfan5 dunno what was said?
19:59 Megaf [18:34:23] <nerzhul> embedding jsoncpp and sqlite3 permit to have those librairies up-to-date and stable, and they are tiny
19:59 Megaf :D
19:59 Megaf I say we drop json
19:59 sfan5 well, it's up-to-date and stable
19:59 sfan5 just broken on debian
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20:09 Wayward_One fwiw, i experienced that on linux mint too
20:15 Megaf sfan5: even worse with systemjson http://paste.debian.net/plain/1006682/
20:16 sfan5 your system json is too old
20:16 Megaf It's Debian 8, just one of the most popular Linuxes...
20:16 Megaf MT is too "advanced"
20:16 sfan5 wrong
20:16 sfan5 debian is too old
20:17 sfan5 nerzhul: can you try to find a version of jsoncpp that compiles & links fine on debian 8?
20:17 pgimeno_ I'm on Debian 9
20:17 sfan5 this issue is getting quite annoying and it would be better to just fix it (even if we have to downgrade jsoncpp)
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20:18 nerzhul sfan5, what do you mean, the repository version is not good for 8 ?
20:18 sfan5 yes, it fails to link http://paste.debian.net/plain/1006678
20:18 Megaf sfan5: to be clear, I'm fine with running Debian 9 and supporting Debian 9. I just thing it would be interesting supporting Debian 8 too due to it's widespread use
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20:19 sfan5 nerzhul: this keeps happening: https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/issues/6567#issue-269361883
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20:20 nerzhul downgrading jsoncpp means less performance and some bugs can happen
20:21 sfan5 I'd rather have slower json parsing than broken build on debian 8
20:21 nerzhul use system json cpp then
20:21 nerzhul it's the prefered version for old systems
20:21 sfan5 that seems to be too old to work
20:21 nerzhul wtf
20:22 nerzhul https://packages.debian.org/fr/​jessie-backports/libjsoncpp-dev
20:22 nerzhul use backports
20:22 nerzhul don't use main repository ,use backports repository and it's nice
20:23 nerzhul i have debian 8 only servers at work (yeah i'm late too) and we heavy use backports for many softwares (mariadb, apache, haproxy, etc...) it works like it should
20:23 nerzhul 0.6 in main repository omg
20:27 Fixer Megaf: not sure if 8 is supported, upgrading to 9 should not be a problem, unless the are some problems
20:27 Megaf nerzhul: how faster can new json make minetest?
20:28 Megaf Maybe just as fast as removing all mapgens and dbs and leaving just sqlite3 and v6
20:28 rubenwardy so not faster at all
20:29 Megaf that's my point
20:34 Megaf systemjson wasnt linking on debian 9 either, Im not 100% sure if this was fixed #4306
20:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4306 -- Minetest fails to link JSONCPP on Debian 9.x if -DENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP=1
20:35 pgimeno_ ah yeah I have it off
20:39 Megaf enabling backports here...
20:43 nerzhul rubenwardy, 10-12% perf enhancement in debug mode
20:49 nerzhul same in relwithdebinfo
20:49 nerzhul retrying release
21:08 nerzhul 25% less
21:08 nerzhul it's nice
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22:04 Megaf nerzhul: ok, updated everything to backports. Lets see if it builds and links using system jsoncpp
22:06 Megaf Thou the begining was not very promissing https://i.imgur.com/LFWfpa6.png
22:07 Megaf wait, hold on
22:07 Megaf -- Using bundled JSONCPP library.
22:07 Megaf lol,
22:11 Megaf Sorry, I thought using systemjson was the default if the lib was found. Compiling again with the use systemjson flag
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22:18 Megaf nerzhul: you sure #6958 will not break anything?
22:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6958 -- Add minetest.bulk_set_node call + optimize Environment::set_node call by nerzhul
22:19 Megaf And did you test the memory spike when running the command with a large number of nodes, lets say, 100000
22:20 nerzhul no overhead
22:20 nerzhul i tested on 100 * 100 *100 nodes
22:21 Megaf I want to see how does that compares/relates to worldedit
22:21 Megaf and if worldedit could make a good use of that
22:21 nerzhul 12MB C++ memory for the for loop it's the only overhead for the price of 25% less time processing on 1M nodes
22:21 nerzhul worldedit can without doubt use it, but i think we can add better calls for worldedit that this generic call
22:24 ThomasMonroe nerzhul, why shouldn't I capitalize "Game" ? I thought that would be consistent with the other tabs.
22:24 sfan5 i don't think this is very useful for worldedit
22:24 sfan5 most commands use vmanips anyway
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22:38 Megaf About JSON, it linked using systemjson with debian 8 backports
22:38 Megaf also linked using bundled I think
22:39 Megaf I'm building client and server, minetestserver has linked already, client stil building
22:58 Foz joined #minetest-dev
22:58 pgimeno_ compiled just fine on Debian 9. -- Using system JSONCPP library.
22:59 pgimeno_ that was without the standalone server
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23:10 Megaf pgimeno_: problem is with Debian 8
23:20 pgimeno_ Megaf - 4306 was about Debian 9, you said you were not 100% sure if it was fixed
23:22 Megaf Oh, thanks

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