Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-10-31

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:11 est31 joined #minetest-dev
01:30 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev
01:55 turtleman joined #minetest-dev
02:56 EinChan joined #minetest-dev
03:29 KaadmY joined #minetest-dev
04:55 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
05:12 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
06:09 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
06:29 ssieb joined #minetest-dev
07:03 nore joined #minetest-dev
08:07 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
08:22 EinChan joined #minetest-dev
09:00 twoelk|2 joined #minetest-dev
09:07 proller joined #minetest-dev
09:53 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
09:54 jin_xi sofar: check how single rotating inventory cube is rendered... uses the exact same code as rendering an entire mapblock for every node. idk if this is really wasteful but it sure looks that way
10:02 loggingbot_ joined #minetest-dev
10:02 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Minetest 0.4.16 released! Chit-chat goes to #minetest. http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
10:08 Sockbat joined #minetest-dev
10:09 thePalindrome joined #minetest-dev
10:20 asl97 joined #minetest-dev
10:37 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
10:44 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
10:47 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:58 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
12:07 Sailor6249 joined #minetest-dev
12:10 Sailor6249 Hello there! I'm planing to organize a meeting where could learn how to translate a software. I'm from South France so I speak Occitan. I'm here to ask if it would be possible to add the Occitan language to the list. Gràcias !
12:15 Sailor6249_ joined #minetest-dev
12:30 Sailor6249_ joined #minetest-dev
12:32 twoelk Sailor6249_: of course :)  just provide content
12:34 Sailor6249_ Sure! I was asking so that it could be added to weblate :) Then we will make our cooking :)
12:51 RobbieF joined #minetest-dev
12:51 RobbieF left #minetest-dev
12:52 CalebDavis joined #minetest-dev
12:59 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
13:10 Sailor6249 joined #minetest-dev
13:11 Sailor6249 twoelk: Sure! I was asking so that it could be added to weblate :) Then we will make our cooking :)
13:24 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev
13:28 Sailor6249 joined #minetest-dev
13:37 antims joined #minetest-dev
13:44 Wuzzy joined #minetest-dev
14:10 proller joined #minetest-dev
15:06 Sailor6249 joined #minetest-dev
15:19 Sailor6249 joined #minetest-dev
15:22 proller joined #minetest-dev
15:28 nerzhul joined #minetest-dev
15:36 jin_xi joined #minetest-dev
15:50 est31 joined #minetest-dev
15:52 numzero joined #minetest-dev
15:59 est31 joined #minetest-dev
15:59 numzero joined #minetest-dev
16:59 Sailor155 joined #minetest-dev
17:17 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
17:30 Krock joined #minetest-dev
17:41 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-dev
17:43 proller joined #minetest-dev
18:11 ssieb joined #minetest-dev
18:22 nerzhul hi, merging #6253 in ~ 5 mins
18:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6253 -- Rewrite rendering engine by numberZero
18:23 sofar nice
18:23 nerzhul sofar, yeah
18:23 sofar nerzhul: did you see my comments yesterday on frameretrace?
18:23 sofar maybe numberzero is interested in playing with that as well
18:24 nerzhul sofar, no i was at the hospital to release a new children version
18:24 sofar so, a colleague of mine has been working on an extension of apitrace
18:24 sofar apitrace allows you to collect all openGL calls an application makes
18:25 sofar the new extension called frameretrace allows you to virtually step through, and profile, every openGL call
18:25 sofar so you can see which ones are expensive
18:25 sofar turns out I think the inventory meshes are likely really expensive
18:25 sofar I posted some links, too
18:26 sofar https://i.imgur.com/1QlqclU.gif
18:27 sofar that's a gif of the render steps (the expensive steps)
18:27 ThomasMonroe that would make sense, the inv meshes
18:27 nerzhul sofar, as we are using irrlicht not opengl directly i don't see why we should use it for MT
18:27 nerzhul the lag is due to rendering on client event loop
18:28 sofar this has nothing to do with lag
18:28 sofar this has to do with spending a lot of time rendering stuff that shouldn't be rendered every frame
18:29 sofar we could just render the entire inventory hud to a texture if it doesn't change, and reuse it
18:29 sofar I'm sure there are smart ways of doing that
18:30 rubenwardy that's essentially what the older code did
18:30 rubenwardy before RBA's changes
18:30 sofar as for irrlicht, it's a really thin API
18:30 sofar rubenwardy: yeah, I realize that, too
18:31 rubenwardy he seemed to think - and assert - that rendering the meshes was less expensive than rendering to the texture, then rendering those textures (which would be mapped to a polygon to be drawn)
18:31 rubenwardy but there was no benchmarking at all
18:32 sofar this tool essentially gives everyone the tool to benchmark it
18:32 rubenwardy nice
18:32 rubenwardy how does it compare to rendering the world?
18:32 sofar you can replay an entire minetest session that you previously have recorded
18:32 sofar and it measures the FPS/time needed to render
18:33 sofar so you can create a specialized scene if you need (e.g. with transparency)
18:33 sofar and then run `apitrace trace minetest --go --wordname demo` etc
18:33 sofar run it for a few seconds, alt-f4
18:33 rubenwardy that gif looks odd - it seems to be rendering internal faces with the cube drawtype
18:33 sofar then load the trace in frameretrace
18:34 sofar the gif doesn't show the bottom of the frame unfortunately
18:34 sofar but yes it renders stuff that's not visible in the first frame
18:34 sofar occlusion culling not entirely effective
18:36 sofar anyway, maybe if I have some time I'll profile the before/after effect of the inventory mesh patch
18:36 rubenwardy I've not really looked into Minetest's rendering yet. I do know that generally the bottleneck tends to be opengl calls rather than vertices on better GPUs, which could explain why a few item stacks takes more than the mapblocks. Unless I'm reading it wrong
18:37 rubenwardy sounds good
18:37 sofar I get the idea that the mapblocks take the same time as inventory meshes
18:37 sofar but there's only like 4-5 mapblocks rendered and 3 inventory meshes with 3 faces each
18:37 sofar so we end up with 12-14 expensive render steps instead of 4-5
18:38 sofar that's a total waste, of course
18:38 sofar but, like I said, need more data
18:38 sofar maybe we can make a single mesh for all the inventory items or something
18:39 rubenwardy yeah. Batch the calls
18:56 basicer` I had been using BuGLe to debug minetest rendering, worked fairly well.
19:00 proller joined #minetest-dev
19:14 Fixer sofar: can you look into minimap rendering? It is slow as hell on my hardware compared to minecraft beta minimap from year 2011
19:20 numzero joined #minetest-dev
19:21 QwertyDragon joined #minetest-dev
19:22 Fixer sofar: also, that tool may be useful for implemeting alpha textures z-sorting of some sort
20:10 troller joined #minetest-dev
20:18 Fixer_ joined #minetest-dev
20:28 troller joined #minetest-dev
20:45 troller joined #minetest-dev
20:51 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
21:45 nerzhul joined #minetest-dev
21:56 paramat joined #minetest-dev
22:00 paramat sofar i suspect the inventory rendering may be intensive to support to the unnecessary rotating selected item feature, better to remove that feature to have better performance i feel
22:01 VanessaE um, no.
22:01 numzero joined #minetest-dev
22:01 VanessaE removing the feature just avoids fixing the real problem.
22:02 VanessaE (why is everyone so against eye candy?  it's a game engine for crying out loud)
22:06 nerzhul the item rotation in inventory is very lightweight
22:09 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
22:18 sofar I need to redo the profile and confirm that it's not something else
22:18 sofar until then, nobody knows anything of value
22:18 sofar (except there's this cool tool that gives you reliable and concrete data!)
22:19 paramat yeah hopefully it is lightweight, i just mentioned it in case it requires an implementation that is intensive, in which case the feature would be the real problem
22:20 paramat also, there is a lot of support for eye candy in MT, i'm in a small minority so don't worry =)
22:26 numzero1 joined #minetest-dev
22:27 Fixer when i tested it last time I had literally same fps
22:27 Fixer except rotating thing
22:27 Fixer it is not even enabled by default
22:29 Fixer *did not test rotating thing, but did test new inventory at the time*
22:57 numzero1 er? inventory meshes? they *are* expensive. perhaps due to using *a lot* of materials
23:01 numzero1 or... believe it or not, it seems to clear Z-buffer for each stack drawn
23:05 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
23:07 numzero1 > profile, every openGL call
23:07 Fixer it was ok at least on my ATI card, experience may vary
23:07 numzero1 is it really possible? OpenGL calls often defer actions
23:10 numzero1 well, I feel I missed something. reading the chat log now
23:11 sofar numzero1: did you see my comments on the FrameRetrace tool?
23:12 numzero1 the comments you mentioned today? no
23:12 sofar numzero1: http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2017-10-30#i_5123833
23:18 Tmanyo joined #minetest-dev
23:19 * numzero1 installs apitrace
23:19 sofar numzero1: you want this fork and build qapitrace as well
23:20 sofar sec finding url
23:20 sofar https://github.com/janesma/apitrace
23:20 sofar branch frameretrace
23:22 numzero1 okay
23:23 numzero1 thanks
23:25 numzero1 actually compiling MT right now
23:34 proller joined #minetest-dev
23:35 numzero1 well, after commenting out hud.cpp:655 (clearZBuffer), inventory works considerably faster
23:36 numzero1 I don't even notice any glitches; perhaps it was cleared somewhere else
23:40 paramat interesting

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext