Time  Nick       Message
04:16 paramat    #6352 is ready, feel free to merge if approved
04:16 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6352 -- Ores: Add stratum ore by paramat
06:07 Hijiri     migrate to C++17
06:08 Hijiri     btw I'm ready to rebase my PRs when someone is willing to review them
06:08 Hijiri     not this instant though I'm about to get ready to sleep
06:09 nerzhul    C++17 is pretty useless for MT, only fielsystem part can be useful
08:55 nerzhul    hello
08:55 nerzhul    merging  #6357 in ~5 mins
08:55 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6357 -- Fix animation frame_speed and blend loosing precision due to incorrec… by sapier
10:32 Wuzzy      Please somebody look at this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5795
10:36 nerzhul    no i don't want
10:36 nerzhul    :D
10:37 Wuzzy      How do I convert mapblock coordinates back to normal coordinates?
10:38 nerzhul    * BS ?
10:38 nerzhul    intToFloat and floatToInt({x,y,z}, BS);
10:40 celeron55  define mapblock coordinates and normal coordinates, neither means anything
10:40 celeron55  and nerzhul's answer is most definitely wrong
10:41 Wuzzy      mapblock coordinates: the thing you get in error messages lke this:
10:41 Wuzzy      "ServerEnvironment::deactivateFarObjects(): id=3984 m_static_exists=true but static data doesn't actually exist in (36,-3,332)"
10:41 Wuzzy      normal coornates: what you see in debug screen
10:41 Krock      * MAP_BLOCKSIZE or similar
10:42 Wuzzy      i.e. 80?
10:42 sfan5      *16
10:42 celeron55  yeah, if you multiply by MAP_BLOCKSIZE, you get the lowest corner of the mapblock in node coordinates
10:42 Krock      no, 80 is the mapgen size (chunks?)
10:43 celeron55  the rest of the nodes of the mapblock are +0...(MAP_BLOCKSIZE-1) from there in each coordinate
10:43 celeron55  and MAP_BLOCKSIZE is 16
10:43 Wuzzy      hmmm ok let me try
10:45 Krock      in C++, we have operator overloading for v3s16/s32, so  my_vector * MAP_BLOCKSIZE is valid btw
10:45 Wuzzy      so (36, -3, 332) translates to the bounding box between (576, -48, 5312) .. (591, -63, 5297)?
10:45 celeron55  no
10:45 celeron55  -48 + 15 = -33
10:45 Wuzzy      lol
10:45 celeron55  and 5312 + 15 = 5327
10:46 Wuzzy      oops i went the wrong way
10:46 Wuzzy      but ok I see how it works now, thank
10:47 Wuzzy      so its really just *16 for each coorinate and I have the lower bound
10:47 celeron55  0,0,0 is the lower bound of a mapblock, and the rest just stack in a 3D grid from there
10:48 celeron55  the lower bound of the 0,0,0 mapblock :P
10:54 Wuzzy      How were all schematics in Minetest Game created? did you use tools or something?
10:56 sfan5      i think paramat uses some thing that turns .mts into lua tables and vice versa
10:56 Krock      there's also minetest.create_schematic
10:56 Wuzzy      that doesn't help me if I also need node probabilities and yslice_prob
10:57 Wuzzy      do you know paramat's "thing", by any chance?
10:57 Wuzzy      is it WorldEdit?
11:07 sfan5      nah i think it's an utility/mod he wrote himself
11:08 Wuzzy      ah, found it!
11:08 Wuzzy      https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12011&view=unread#unread
11:15 Wuzzy      Do you know of any other useful development tools (like saveschems, luacmd, NodeBoxEditor, etc.)?
11:31 nerzhul    celeron55, i missed MAP_BLOCKSIZE like a noob in my calcul :(
11:32 nerzhul    merging #6358 in ~ 5 mins
11:32 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6358 -- Remove nodeupdate completely by Rui-Minetest
11:46 Fixer      get biome info
12:12 tenplus1   fixed - https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1884
12:19 nerzhul    Krock, there is no sense to re-send the message to the sender
12:19 nerzhul    (passing by the server)
12:20 Krock      how come? two CSM mods might listen to the same channel
12:20 nerzhul    but if there is a need (i don't see why) we can broadcast to the local instance (SSM to SSM) and CSM to CSM in the same client
12:20 nerzhul    then it's a RPC like between mods permitting to standardize inter mod communication in the sandbox
12:20 nerzhul    exact ?
12:21 nerzhul    i can change the algorithm to add a callback on message sending in clients to handle that case, and send message to server when server sent the message, the problem is the sender will always receive it's message as a callback, and should handle it
12:21 Krock      they might would conflict each other when sending on the same channel :/
12:22 nerzhul    i'm not afraid about the conflict
12:22 nerzhul    my main concern is the loopback on the same consumer/provider mod, it means each mod developer should handle its own sent message return
12:23 nerzhul    we don't have a mean to find we are sending message to the same mod :(
12:23 Krock      indeed, they'd have to do so
12:23 Krock      but if this feature is requested later, the risk of a loopback is much higher when mods started using it
12:24 nerzhul    yes
12:24 nerzhul    if someone find a real good usecase we can remove the return-back security later
12:24 nerzhul    as mods are on the same sandbox they can talk lua to lua directly instead of translating to core C++ and re translate to lua :)
12:27 nerzhul    the only thing i wanted to tune but our registration model doesn't permit it now is remove the channel param from lua callback registration and register to a table with channel name as a key
12:27 nerzhul    it prevent any mod to receive non listening channels messages
12:28 Krock      indeed
12:28 nerzhul    if a good builtin developper can help me to achieve this task it can be nice and prevent copying every event to every listener
12:28 Krock      but for now we need a base to build on. improvements can also happen later
12:29 nerzhul    yes, this just needs a API break in the same dev,  but if it's tolerate in this cycle i can wait
12:29 nerzhul    it just needs to be fixed before release
12:29 nerzhul    Krock, did you tested it enablind CSM preview and playing on minimal ?
12:43 Krock      tested it in an own mod to check whether it works like I expected - and it does.
12:47 nerzhul    heh
12:47 nerzhul    you have a real use case ?
12:50 Krock      not yet. just some ping/pong tests
12:51 nerzhul    without the HUD CSM pr it's less useful because you cannot have readable real time informations between clients
12:51 nerzhul    i should review it asap to make it merged asap, both are very linked in a real case usage
13:22 nerzhul    a question about the message content
13:22 nerzhul    is this core engine responsibility to serialize a lua object or lua mod owner to use core.serialize call ?
13:47 celeron55  i'd say make the engine do it
13:47 celeron55  modders would have to do it anyway in the majority if cases and the api is supposed to make things easy
13:47 celeron55  of*
13:54 nerzhul    celeron55, okay i add it in the todo list, do we have any other API doing a similar thing ?
13:55 celeron55  possibly none
13:55 nerzhul    erf :(
13:55 nerzhul    i hope minetest.serialize code is easily transposable heh
13:55 celeron55  call it from C++ 8)
13:56 celeron55  and let someone optimize it later
13:56 celeron55  always a good plan!
13:56 nerzhul    lol, i don't like to be crazy like this, i'm not a NodeJS dev :p
13:59 celeron55  what the eff, minetest.deserialize has a "safe" parameter which is set to unsafe by default
13:59 nerzhul    lol
16:22 rubenwardy !tell nerzhul why not JSON instead of (de)serialize?
16:22 ShadowBot  rubenwardy: O.K.
16:32 paramat    Wuzzy use https://github.com/minetest-mods/saveschems instead, that's the latest version
16:33 Wuzzy      I am currently writing a small python script to parse and later manipulate schematics more easily. i plan to do enable common tasks like "replace all dirt with stone", etc.
16:33 Wuzzy      but thanks
16:34 Wuzzy      this lua-to-MTS and back is very tedious... :/
16:36 Wuzzy      btw paramat, I added your mod to the Developer Wiki on the Developer Tools page: http://dev.minetest.net/Development_Tools
16:41 Wuzzy      Who is maintaining the Developer Wiki btw?
16:41 Wuzzy      I mean who's the admin?
16:42 rubenwardy CalebDavis,
16:42 rubenwardy oops
16:42 rubenwardy Calinou,
16:42 rubenwardy well
16:42 rubenwardy c55 hosts it
16:44 Calinou    I don't have access to the hosting, I'm only a wiki admin
16:46 paramat    Wuzzy better to link directly to the minetest-mods repo, my forum topic may have some misleading or out of date explanation
16:47 Wuzzy      but it links to https://github.com/minetest-mods/saveschems
16:48 Wuzzy      i mean your post
16:48 Wuzzy      it already links to correct repo
16:48 Wuzzy      last commit was in December 2016 and that was by you. xD
16:49 sofar      I made him do it :P
16:49 Wuzzy      also, the readme is not really useful. forum post seems more complete
17:02 paramat    ok i'll update the forum post if there is any wrong information
17:03 paramat    maybe the readme too
17:42 Wuzzy      thx
17:42 Wuzzy      i noticed something strange in MTS files
17:45 Wuzzy      apparently many schematics in MTG have a y-slice probability of 127 (0x7F) for all slices instead of 255 (0xFF). WTF? The docs clearly say that 255 is equivalent to 100%.
17:59 sofar      interesting, for which ones did you see that?
18:02 sofar      yeah, I see it too (aspen tree, for one)
18:03 sofar      looks like during saving that ff -> 7f and 7f -> 3f
18:05 sofar      Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mg_schematic.h
18:05 sofar      #define MTSCHEM_PROB_ALWAYS 0x7F
18:05 Wuzzy      wtf
18:05 Wuzzy      so the docs are wrong.
18:06 sofar      1 bit was reserved for force placement of nodes, so the available mask for probabilities was reduced to omit that range
18:06 Wuzzy      but i was talking about y-slices which do not have that force placement bit
18:06 sofar      well the thing is that the save code accounts for it
18:07 Wuzzy      so... probabilities are actually from 0-127?
18:07 sofar      serialize_schematic() handles it
18:08 sofar      they're 0-255 if you use serialize_schematic()
18:08 sofar      and they're 0-127 from a binary storage perspective
18:08 Wuzzy      O_O
18:08 Wuzzy      whyyyyy
18:08 Wuzzy      this does not make sense
18:08 sofar      whoever added force_place flag obviously wanted to make the code consistent
18:09 Wuzzy      why allowing 0-255 in lua but only 0-127 in mts? this is not consistent at all
18:10 sofar      it keeps old code working the same way, so
18:10 Wuzzy      but the docs are still lying, right?
18:10 sofar      what docs?
18:11 Wuzzy      lua_api.txt, "Schematic specifier"
18:11 Wuzzy      nowhere says it anything about 127
18:12 Wuzzy      It looks like the Lua API is pretending you can have values between 0 and 255 while they are actually between 0 and 127
18:12 sofar      it looks correct, it just omits stating the format of the bits in the mts binary format
18:13 Wuzzy      well why pretending you have a precision of 0-255 when you actually lose 1 bit of precision
18:14 Wuzzy      so... y-slice probability is also between 0-127. does this mean that y-slice prob of 128-255 is invalid?
18:14 sofar      https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2979
18:15 Wuzzy      but also:
18:15 Wuzzy      1118 * The `yslice_prob` field is a table of {ypos, prob} which sets the `ypos`th vertical slice
18:15 Wuzzy      1119   of the schematic to have a `prob / 256 * 100` chance of occuring. (default: 255)
18:16 Wuzzy      ^ this is wrong
18:16 sofar      off-by-one error, sure
18:16 paramat    the per-node force-place encoding is confusing but the docs are correct, i had this conversation with octacian
18:16 Wuzzy      no. off-by-a-factor-of-two error.
18:16 sofar      not if you talk about lua table probabilities
18:16 Wuzzy      the correct formula should be prob / 128 * 100, right?
18:16 sofar      the internal format of MTS is not discussed here
18:17 sofar      so, you can't claim it's incorrect, since it does not exist in this document
18:17 Wuzzy      hmm strange
18:17 sofar      all this tries to explain is the lua table side of the equation
18:17 Wuzzy      does this mean a value of 255 (Lua) actually is divided by 2?
18:17 sofar      at least, that is how I read it
18:18 Wuzzy      i.e. 1 bit of precision is ismply thrown away
18:19 Wuzzy      okay.  i think i understand it now. its actually the MTS docs (*.h) which needs clarification, then
18:20 paramat    hm i didn't realise y-slice used the same encoding although it doesn't need to
18:20 sofar      it's certainly not pretty, lol
18:20 Wuzzy      and the Lua docs should at least hint at the fact that the probability is internally divided by 2
18:21 Wuzzy      its very awkward by the way to "fake" a probability range of 0-255. just my opinion
18:21 Wuzzy      by the same logic we could do a 0-100 range in Lua (percentage)
18:21 Wuzzy      (not that I would suggest that)
18:22 Wuzzy      but ok. its not really important.
18:22 Wuzzy      esp. because the "error" is very small
18:22 paramat    probability list appears confusing because it has not yet been updated to take per-node force-place into account, so you need to encode manually, that was the source of octacian's confusion
18:23 paramat    that's why i added the docs at L2979 to show how to manually encode
18:25 paramat    this was discussed here https://github.com/octacian/advschem/issues/1
18:26 paramat    there are 128 levels of prob, but it's consistent to present that as 0-255 to modders, because before 'per-node force-place' was added prob really was 256 levels presented as 0-255
18:27 paramat    hmmmm's doing
18:27 Wuzzy      "'but better for consistency that you ask the mod user to enter 0-255, then divide that by 2 to get 0-127'
18:27 Wuzzy      That should be done to avoid much confusion."
18:27 Wuzzy      has this been done?
18:29 paramat    anyway #6352 is ready, added ore density parameter, see pretty screenshots. Krock rubenwardy sfan5 sofar . ideally i'd like to merge later tonight
18:29 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6352 -- Ores: Add stratum ore by paramat
18:29 paramat    no octacian hasn't updated yet afaik
18:30 Wuzzy      awesome. Mese biomes, here we come!! :D
18:31 Wuzzy      paramat: In GitHub posts, you can create a pretty line segment by writing "---". add more dashes to make thicker
18:45 paramat    ah ok
21:58 paramat    i just discovered ore param2 can be set, but this was never documented, will add doc to PR
22:26 paramat    done
23:00 paramat    #6360 if anyone wants to test
23:00 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6360 -- Mapgen Carpathian: Reduce influence of 3D noise on mountains by vlapsley
23:28 paramat    hm worlds start just a little too early, just a little too dark, i would be ok with the next step in brightness (1 step before full brightness)
23:59 basicer    is there anyway to make a full screen formspec?