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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-05-11

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Time Nick Message
00:02 Hijiri paramat: the issues/PRs you removed from the milestone are still in the project, is that intended?
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00:04 paramat erm
00:05 paramat they will of course still be worked on, but there's only 11 days to freeze
00:05 paramat i closed 10 that obviously should not be in the milestone
00:07 paramat .. at this point. it was fine to add them earlier through optimism
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00:46 Hijiri paramat: I meant project as in the project feature of github
00:46 Hijiri https://github.com/minetest/minetest/projects/2
00:48 paramat i see
00:49 paramat i sort of can't be bothered with that kanban board thing, it's a nerzhul thing, seems unnecessary to me :]
01:07 paramat Zeno` thanks for your message
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05:07 Zeno` I think that maintenance is normally something that doesn't change how something behaves. Therefore removing maintenance tag from #5744
05:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5744 -- Caverns: Remove unnecessary liquid excavation by paramat
05:34 nerzhul Zeno`, except arrlen #5719 is okay for you ?
05:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001
05:35 nerzhul (i fixed it myself)
05:39 Zeno` yeah, but I'd rather the ARRLEN there so if someone changes the length of the array they don't have to remember to change the snprintf() as well
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05:42 lisac #5743
05:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5743 -- Fix instant dig bug #5728 by lisacvuk
05:42 lisac Hi everyone
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05:50 Zeno` hi
05:50 Zeno` nerzhul, yep I'm ok with it now
05:50 nerzhul nice :)
05:50 nerzhul hi
05:50 nerzhul merging in ~30mins then
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08:02 lisac Hi kilbith
08:03 kilbith hey
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08:26 lisac Hi nerzhul
08:26 nerzhul oh forgot to merge #5719 this morning, i will merge it in ~10 mins
08:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5719 -- Rework escape/pause menu by red-001
08:39 nerzhul merged
08:39 nerzhul ty red-002
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10:03 nerzhul guys, we really need #5554 for release, a second approval is required
10:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5554 -- [CSM] Allow enabling and disabling mods. by red-001
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11:57 lisac nerzhul, What does 'Blocker' tag stand for?
12:03 VanessaE lisac: in most projects, "blocker" means that the issue in question must be solved before next planned release of the project.
12:03 VanessaE the issue is literally "blocking" the devs from considering a release (or it would, if it isn't solved by the projected release date)
12:04 kilbith I have a gross analogy with the toilet in mind but I'll abstain
12:08 VanessaE heh
12:11 lisac VanessaE, Thanks :D
12:11 VanessaE yw
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14:59 Fixer who come up with this "Minetest Game" was intended to be simple? (maybe i forgot) I thought that was result of lack of development and will so it became so stagnant for years so that "simplicity" was accepted as norm because it is that much fucked up and you can't do much about it
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15:18 red-002 Fixer it's a feature not a bug?
15:24 Fixer red-002: rails without carts for almost 6 years - bug or feature?
15:25 red-002 feature since carts are more memory and cpu expensive then just tracks, duh
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15:26 Fixer red-002: remove minetest_game, even less memory/cpu used
15:26 red-002 huh good point
15:28 red-002 done http://i.imgur.com/7aA6CBe.png
15:30 nore Fixer: that was the opinion like 3 years ago, I should edit it out of game#515 probably
15:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/515 -- [Discussion] Development direction
15:47 twoelk red-002: there once was a gameless session on VanessaE's survival server. Connecting was fast and the world full of unknown content
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17:00 DS-minetest why don't have chests an extra file? furnace has
17:01 red-003 ad hoc?
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17:11 Fixer modularise default
17:11 Fixer if possible
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17:15 kaeza anybody knows offhand where the default player collision box is?
17:17 sofar builtin in the code?
17:19 kaeza nvm, found it
17:19 kaeza I guess this is it? >m_collisionbox(-BS * 0.30, 0.0, -BS * 0.30, BS * 0.30, BS * 1.75, BS * 0.30),
17:23 sofar that doesn't make any sense
17:24 sofar oh, well, collision box ~= selection box
17:24 sofar so yeah, maybe
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18:29 kilbith it looks like the middle mouse key ain't get-able from `get_player_control()`
18:30 kilbith while irrlicht supports it: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/st​ructirr_1_1_s_event_1_1_s_mouse_input.h​tml#a1a93f70157bfad1c15ae2a7c10745432
18:32 sofar there's plenty more valid buttons that are missed, but yes, middle is missing
18:35 kilbith some of our users want the middle-click to get the pointed node in their inventory, but not destructing it
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18:37 paramat kaeza https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/src/content_sao.cpp#L801
18:38 rubenwardy related: #2730 #4211
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2730 -- Pick node by middle click
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4211 -- Being able to use middle Mouse button (button 3 aka scroll wheel) for controls
18:38 kaeza paramat, thanks
18:39 kaeza but the line I posted is enough for my purposes
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18:45 paramat Fixer "... lack of development and will so it became so stagnant for years ..." see rate of commits in the last 2 years https://github.com/minetest/min​etest_game/graphs/contributors half my time has been spent on it
18:46 Fixer paramat: yeah, but still 2012-2014 was pretty stagnant
18:47 Fixer 2016-2017 looks much more active
18:48 paramat yes it was neglected earlier
18:52 Fixer MTG question, I can rotate default:wood but not default:cobble, what is the reason to not rotate cobble with screwdriver?
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18:53 Raven262 Cause it has same texture from all sides?
18:53 Raven262 No one thought that rotating it would actually make it look different, thought it would
18:53 Raven262 Is this a bug then?
18:53 Fixer hard to say
18:53 paramat intentional
18:53 Raven262 really?
18:54 paramat because it has been considered as looking the same in every rotation, although that's not exactly true
18:55 Raven262 Why couldn't all "ordinary" nodes be rotated then?
18:55 paramat but generally considering all texture packs, it's usually a random mess of stones
18:56 Raven262 I'm not sure if it would have any purpose in rotating it anyway
18:56 paramat param2 can be useful for other purposes so it's only reserved for rotation if needed
18:56 Raven262 Ah, yes, didn't think of that
18:57 Raven262 btw, will minetest get any coloured lightning at all?
18:57 paramat wood planks only became rotatable a year ago or so
18:58 paramat coloured light is a huge job, with changes to map format
18:59 Raven262 Well, is it in plan, if there is some plan anyway
19:00 Raven262 Since i have seen coloured text being added
19:00 Raven262 Was that less of a job?
19:00 paramat not really planned. coloured text is vastly easier there's no comparison
19:00 Raven262 Ah.
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19:02 Raven262 Well, there is one thing i would like to ask core devs.
19:02 twoelk never knowing what a texture pack may be up to I would consider all blocks, slabs, stairs and walls of mtg should be rotatable
19:02 Raven262 I noticed suspiciously large number of clients with the name consisting of a name starting with a capital letter + random 2 or 3 digit number.
19:03 Raven262 On a single server i have been following in irc last few months (and earlier possibly)
19:03 twoelk some new multicraft clone?
19:03 Raven262 The minetest's copies are getting out of hand, a bit
19:04 Raven262 People are joining from copies much more than from original minetest.
19:04 Raven262 It is an insane amount of clients
19:04 Raven262 one in every 10 minutes or so here
19:05 Raven262 just joins, waits for a few moments, then leaves
19:07 Raven262 Though one can ask a player what game is he playing, and he will respond with the name of the copy.
19:07 Raven262 And copies are a bit outdated too, some minetest features crash them
19:08 Raven262 which is nice, just tell a player to open a craft guide and see if it crashes him xD
19:09 twoelk http://i.imgur.com/3ZXqqq7.png rotated cobble :-D
19:09 Raven262 :O
19:10 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/4AGRLxx.png monitoring particle use on server
19:11 Fixer most of the time it is below 20
19:13 paramat would be good to be able to filter clients to only official MT clients
19:14 Raven262 But, then copies could steal that part of the code too :P
19:15 twoelk there had been discussions like that before
19:16 Raven262 How would server know if the client is minetest, not a copy?
19:16 Raven262 Maybe ask for version?
19:17 nerzhul paramat, it's very very difficult to filter because we don't have any idea about this
19:17 paramat ok
19:19 twoelk also such a feature could be missused and clones usually have enough interest to quickly hack around any signiture or whatever
19:19 paramat #5744
19:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5744 -- Caverns: Remove unnecessary liquid excavation by paramat
19:21 nerzhul it's easy to spoof data :)
19:21 nerzhul like the current random player names to bypass guest ban
19:21 red-003 well I guess it's a bit better then guest names?
19:22 Raven262 Better? Now we don't enev know which name is randomly generated and which is not? xD
19:22 Raven262 *even
19:23 red-003 could you post an example of some of the names?
19:24 Raven262 Krutsch380 Delrosario398 Kenady973 Babula777 Diesel234 Milledge562 Largent249 Hugghins283 Sandahl227 Gloeckner506 Brightharp319 Terhark486
19:25 Raven262 brought to you from craig's server
19:25 Raven262 I have no idea on how could one generate such different names.
19:26 nerzhul just have a list, add random number, finished
19:26 Raven262 list?
19:26 Raven262 that is one great job to get this many names
19:26 Raven262 There are hundreds of them, about 15 new every day
19:26 red-003 considering the quality of these clients there is probalay an giant array of names somewhere in the code
19:26 Raven262 lol
19:27 Raven262 somebody is actually doing it
19:28 Raven262 Well, you could ban clients from using a name that fits these parameters, Capital letter at the begining, 3 digits at the end
19:29 Raven262 this would stop them for some time xD
19:29 * Raven262 is afk.
19:30 nerzhul Raven262, then i can ban you now ?
19:30 Fixer why would you ban those names?
19:30 Fixer it is certainly better than Saddie666
19:31 Fixer ... and guest
19:31 Raven262 Yeah, right
19:31 Raven262 Bad idea
19:32 Raven262 And, we knew sadies and guests were nameless
19:32 Raven262 we don't know if someone is using an illegal client or not according to these new names
19:33 red-003 someone should reverse engineer one of these clients and check how long the name list is
19:33 Raven262 Sadies and Guests were better imo then
19:34 Raven262 Lets see if i can get to know some client names
19:36 Hijiri may or may not be actually illegal
19:36 Hijiri even if it's not an official client
19:37 Fixer i'm fine with those, why whould you ban them? just because of name? it is better than 666cutedogcapcake666
19:37 Raven262 Hmmm
19:37 Raven262 Yes, you are right
19:38 Hijiri Maybe if the name matches a particular pattern show the player a notice that they may be using an unofficial client
19:38 Hijiri and only on the first time they log on, otherwise it's annoying
19:39 Raven262 Yes, we need those names
19:39 red-003 some many of these apps don't link to their real source code
19:39 red-003 so*
19:39 red-003 not some
19:40 Hijiri nobody has made a DMCA against them?
19:40 Hijiri DMCA takedown request I mean
19:40 red-003 too much effort to dmca all of them
19:40 kilbith nerzhul once a time ago
19:40 Hijiri (though congress made the DMCA against them)
19:41 Calinou yeah, we need to ban all usernames ending with 3 numbers I gues :(
19:41 Calinou guess*
19:42 Calinou there probably is a list somewhere in the APK
19:42 Calinou if someone can get it in plain text, jackpot
19:42 Raven262 If someone could get to know which app are we looking for
19:42 Hijiri they'll just create some other random name scheme
19:42 red-003 Calinou, I remeber once opening one of these in a deassmbler and I'm pretty sure the list was embedded in the binary
19:42 red-003 disassmbler*
19:42 Hijiri showing a notice is less likely to cause enough complaints for them to switch it up
19:43 Calinou this is whack-a-mole anyway
19:43 Calinou we have to do it, this is getting out of hand
19:43 red-003 that was a while ago through
19:43 Raven262 Maybe they are overhearing this as we speak.
19:43 Calinou heh
19:43 red-003 and I don't remeber which app this was
19:43 Raven262 How does one get this minetest clone?
19:44 Calinou Google Play I guess
19:44 Hijiri there are multiple
19:44 Calinou aka. Hell on Earth
19:44 red-003 ^
19:44 Raven262 so google play then?
19:45 nerzhul for the DCMA, only unlegit fork can be nuked (no source providen an no reference to MT)
19:45 twoelk what is the most recent data on OS usage with minetest? how high is the android share on servers now?
19:45 red-003 apple app store encrypts the binary so you are out of luck if it's not in plain text somewhere
19:45 red-003 ~90%
19:45 nerzhul the only real way to fight against them is to change the license, but i don't think we will ever do it, to use GPLv3 + CC by NC SA for textures etc
19:45 Raven262 Guys, there are just so many copies
19:46 red-003 we know
19:46 Raven262 What is needed for a license change?
19:47 nerzhul signature of all contributor since MT birth :p
19:48 twoelk Raven262: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=16020 <-- add any new info here
19:50 Raven262 signature?
19:50 Raven262 Are you all just hiding your identities?
19:51 Raven262 twoelk, well this is quite a list already.
19:51 twoelk probably not complete
19:52 Raven262 But, why people play clones rather than the original game anyway?
19:52 Fixer wait a second... are particles on dig are rendered for _everybody_ ?
19:54 Calinou please no CC BY-NC-SA
19:54 Calinou it's the root of all evil
19:54 Calinou (someone could replace all textures if they wanted, too…)
19:54 Calinou so this won't even solve your problem
19:54 Calinou there are plenty of freely-licensed texture packs out there
19:54 Calinou Fixer: nope, only yourself
19:54 sofar perhaps move this discussion to -hub?
19:55 twoelk most clones are availiable at places players look for new games and some are maybe easier to install
19:56 nerzhul a good way to have players can be to distribute on steam, there is more control than play store, but it's not easy to distribute on steam and have some costs
19:57 Raven262 So, is minetest going to be added to steam?
19:57 Raven262 Are there any against it?
19:57 twoelk do you volanteer?  ;-P
19:58 Raven262 lol
20:04 Raven262 adding a game on steam requires money, right?
20:04 Raven262 Now, how do we get money?
20:04 Raven262 Donations should do
20:04 Raven262 I mean it is not that expensive, right?
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20:09 * Raven262 is away
20:12 nerzhul Raven262, no time for this, we have a release to manage, please talk about this on minetest-hub
20:13 twoelk http://i.imgur.com/bnlnN3s.png 3digit names at spawn on JT2 right now
20:16 sofar move it to -hub please
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21:17 nerzhul guys, just a question, why we use u32, u8 etc, instead of cstdint types ? uint8_t, int64_t etc ? (which is standard) ? It's only due to irrlicht stupidity ?
21:17 nerzhul celeron55, ^?
21:17 rubenwardy nicer
21:17 rubenwardy do you really want to type uint32_t everytime?
21:18 celeron55 if i started minetest now, i'd even alias std::string as ss_ or something
21:18 rubenwardy lol
21:18 sfan5 s::s
21:18 celeron55 that's what i do in new C++ projects
21:18 sfan5 does c++ even allow tht
21:18 sfan5 i wonder
21:18 nerzhul except the character typing speedup (which is a non sense, just use an IDE on a such project) it's standard :p
21:19 rubenwardy it's ugly and less readable
21:19 nerzhul celeron55, on private C++ projects maybe but for opensource it's not good to have such unreadable variable (ss_ :p)
21:20 celeron55 well, i just don't agree with common C++ practices generally either
21:20 celeron55 so don't ask me if you want common practices
21:20 nerzhul especially for external contribution, for the u8/u32 it's understandable, i just mean, why this choice
21:20 nerzhul just to keep some disk space to run on window 3.1 and OS hard disk drives ? :p
21:20 nerzhul or zx spectrum ^^
21:21 celeron55 i don't see why it's so bad to shorten common things
21:21 celeron55 i think humans generally like to do that
21:21 nerzhul for std::unordered_map<std::string, std::string> yeah :D StringMap is quite good ^^
21:22 nerzhul but uint8_t vs u8 :)
21:23 celeron55 if you can't call it C++, then call it Minetest C++
21:23 nerzhul :o
21:23 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/U0TI360.png
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21:31 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/OC7Fc0A.png
21:32 Calinou the latter might just be an altitude graph of the French Alps
21:32 Calinou who knows
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