Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-04-27

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:24 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
00:45 paramat joined #minetest-dev
00:46 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
00:46 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
00:47 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
01:02 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
01:02 twoelk|2 left #minetest-dev
01:05 rubenwardy merging game#1713 in 5 mins...
01:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1713 -- Fix owner not being checked on write to book by rubenwardy
01:07 paramat thanks
01:11 octacian_ joined #minetest-dev
01:12 octacian joined #minetest-dev
01:27 rubenwardy forgot, merged now
01:45 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
01:46 benrob0329_ joined #minetest-dev
01:46 XtremeHacker joined #minetest-dev
02:08 sofar paramat: squash it, bop it, merge it (#4525)
02:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4525 -- Startup boilerplate: fix line breaks by HybridDog
02:17 rubenwardy shouldn't it be cerr not cout? Although it doesn't matter much
02:20 sofar errorstream?
02:25 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
02:27 paramat nice, the wrapping ASCII bothers me in terminal
02:33 paramat typically sloppy PR though
02:40 paramat +1 for #3497
02:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3497 -- Allow mesh and nodeboxes to wave like plants or leaves. by sofar
03:04 XtremeHacker joined #minetest-dev
03:11 VanessaE all right G*d damn it, I just had to wipe out a 6GB debug log (and others in 1+ GB range), just one day's worth of log....  and a 136 GB rollback log.
03:11 VanessaE will someone PLEASE fix the fucking ghost entities bug and add a way to let a mod NOT record to the rollback log?!?
03:13 VanessaE (the former floods the debug log, the latter floods both logs)
03:15 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
03:16 VanessaE rollback is getting so unwieldy now that I'm going to be forced to disable it soon, on the servers that need it the most
03:16 VanessaE and yes, I meant GB, not MB.
03:16 paramat is there an issue for the mod rollback recording request?
03:17 * sofar ashamed to admit he couldn't even get rollback to work the last time he tried
03:19 sofar paramat: mind if I push a change to remove the conflicting dye color change to minetest_game?
03:19 sofar silly to make a PR and push 500 keys
03:19 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/blob/master/mods/dye/init.lua#L84
03:19 sofar remove that line
03:20 Calinou rollback didn't catch obvious griefing, last time I tried it, it also slowed down the server to a crawl
03:23 sofar paramat: I'll push a change in a bit
03:24 VanessaE Calinou: it's caught greifers on my servers many times, but because of that insane size, I can't use /rollback <user> <time> to auto-repair the grief, because THAT will usually hang the server for ages.
03:24 VanessaE (minutes, even an hour in one case)
03:26 paramat a dye PR is fine +1
03:26 paramat i mean, a commit
03:27 sofar ae7206c
03:27 paramat thanks for that
03:28 sofar we've got 3 more weeks where we should be a bit more aggressive merging easy changes and not forgetting them
03:28 garywhite VanessaE: What you may want to do is make a script that flushes those files every day at shutdown, at least till they can fix the issues
03:28 VanessaE garywhite: the debug logs are rotated out nightly.
03:28 VanessaE and rollback is trimmed to only the last month's worth of events
03:29 VanessaE yeah, that's right - 136 GB of events in a month
03:29 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
03:29 paramat :O
03:29 VanessaE (the rollback trim takes place either nightly or weekly, I forget which I set it for)
03:30 VanessaE paramat: it's because there's no way for a mod to exclude some events (think nodebreakers, deployers, certain technic machines) from the rollback log.
03:31 VanessaE so you've got some random machine, say a leaves-to-sapling reprocessor, that places a leaves block, waits a bit (a fraction of a second), and then digs it to try to get the sapling out of it, or recycles the dug leaves back to the input to try again at a later cycle
03:32 VanessaE now expand that to industrial-scale machines that might do say 30 or 40 of those each cycle, two cycles per second
03:33 VanessaE each cycle spams the debug log with "so-and-so placed foo:leaves" and "so-and-so dug foo:leaves", and equivalent events in the rollback log
03:33 VanessaE such things do NOT need to be logged, at least to rollback.
03:41 paramat indeed
03:41 VanessaE also that same machine would have "so-and-so takes foo:stuff from chest" for every cycle
03:42 VanessaE (because it would usually involve a "filter-injector" device, which removes an item from its neighboring chest and routes it into a tube)
03:43 destt_ joined #minetest-dev
03:44 VanessaE the most API-friendly way I can think to do this might be an API call one could put ahead of the event that shouldn't be logged, and a similar call to put after it
03:44 VanessaE that way you don't have to modify the actual call being logged
03:44 VanessaE (at least at the Lua level)
03:45 VanessaE then literally anything that sends an event to rollback can be excluded.
03:45 benrob03291 joined #minetest-dev
03:51 sofar VanessaE: what you want is some sql based logging method
03:51 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
03:51 VanessaE sofar: no (and anyway rollback *is* sql)
03:52 VanessaE minetest.disable_rollback_logging()  minetest.set_node(pos, {name="foo:stuff"})  minetest.enable_rollback_logging()
03:52 VanessaE something like that.
03:52 VanessaE well not set_node but rather, place_node.
03:52 VanessaE (or both, I forget which one goes to the rollback log)
04:34 bkeys joined #minetest-dev
04:35 bkeys I am trying to print out the JSON the minetest client sends to the master server
04:35 bkeys I am in serverlist.cpp and the function in question seems to be sendAnnounce
04:37 sofar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYWQcZovMaY
04:37 sofar nore: ^^
04:39 sofar bkeys: what are you attempting to do?
04:39 bkeys Print out the JSON for hwen the server does a POST
04:40 sofar why are you doing that?
04:40 nore sofar: nice
04:40 bkeys I want to see if I can self host a master server and use it for my non minetest game
04:40 sofar you know the master server code is open source
04:41 bkeys yes and I have it running on my pi
04:41 nore did you try with plain skybox and sky color going from blue to grey, while clouds color go from white to dark grey as well?
04:41 bkeys What I am trying to do now is see how the minetest server announces itself so I can try to replicate it
04:41 sofar nore: only thing I did was hack the client to not disable clouds (the color tints are from the skybox mod I think)
04:41 bkeys Hence I need to see the JSON it POST's so I can do the same
04:42 nore yeah, I know, I mean, you can do that just to see what the effect looks like :)
04:42 nore (so, using "plain" skyboxes instead of textures)
04:42 sofar dunno
04:42 sofar I literally want to kill the "clouds are visible in skybox 'plain' only mode"
04:43 sofar that's the only thing I'm looking to do now
04:43 nore anyway now that we have that cloud API we can kill that indeed
04:43 sofar just set density to 0.0 and it should be off
04:43 nore I don't know how much backwards compat we want though
04:43 sofar that's already a toggle
04:43 nore ^ yeah, that works
04:43 sofar no need to even set much
04:43 sofar old clients just have clouds, period
04:44 sofar I can't understand how it gets toggled though, lmao
04:45 sofar clouds get turned off if you're deep inside caves, sure
04:45 sofar but I literally don't see where clouds get disabled when you enable a skybox
04:45 sofar it's like I'm making a zero-line patch to do what I want
04:45 sofar this does not compute
04:46 sofar here's my diff so far:
04:46 sofar https://gist.github.com/sofar/d​5536194976103c4e5a8119597420028
04:46 sofar that's it
04:47 nore hmm
04:47 bkeys sofar: I got the log being serialized with the JSON lib; how do I print something to the console?
04:47 nore makes me think there's another change we probably want to do for the cloud colors
04:47 sofar bkeys: errorstream<< etc
04:47 nore which is use a texture for time of day -> color mapping
04:48 nore instead of the current hardcoded function for default sky and always the same color otherwise
04:53 sofar http://i.imgur.com/3fNlcFo.jpg
04:53 bkeys sofar: I have libcurl in the build and everything but sendAnnounce is not working
04:53 sofar from minetest?
04:55 paramat clouds are not visible with a plain skybox
04:55 sofar paramat: seen my latest video?
04:56 sofar nore: for other stuff like moon/sun we need to do a major overhaul, but this is trivial
04:57 sofar the color for the clouds seems to get applied from the skybox colors properly
04:57 paramat yeah seen the video, just the sort of work we need
04:57 sofar since it takes the fog colors I think
04:57 nore sofar: interesting
04:57 sofar all I did was remove an arbitrary restriction
04:58 bkeys Got the JSON c:
04:59 nore sun/moon need an API I think, and probably an API for arbitrary stellar objects would be good
04:59 sofar including ordering :)
04:59 nore shouldn't be too difficult either, just need to code it...
04:59 sofar so we can have eclipses
04:59 nore oooh :)
04:59 sofar precession
05:00 sofar inclination/obliquenes
05:00 paramat celeron55 coded 'set sky', might be interested in developing that
05:00 sofar elliptic
05:00 sofar so size of objects vary
05:00 troller joined #minetest-dev
05:00 sofar nore: right after we finish itb
05:01 nore hmmm I was mainly thinking about circular orbits over which you have control, but if we can give 3d positions and some way to control the trajectory it would be nice
05:01 nore sofar: yeah, I just thought about making a magic mod where the position of the planets & stuff matters
05:02 nore maybe it would be an interesting system for a subgame (or even the next generation mtg?)
05:06 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
05:32 nerzhul joined #minetest-dev
06:07 Karazhan joined #minetest-dev
06:15 paramat joined #minetest-dev
07:20 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
08:06 nerzhul joined #minetest-dev
08:49 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
09:17 Fixer VanessaE: so with nearly empty servers you get 140gb of rollback? That is insane
09:19 VanessaE Fixer: that's what happens when you have an old server with lots of user-built machines that are still operating
09:19 VanessaE (also, that server gets a bit more than "empty" activity these days, though it could be better)
09:20 RoaryTiger joined #minetest-dev
09:33 nerzhul merging #5660 in ~10 min
09:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5660 -- Fix incorrect formspec-tooltip doc, add detail in 'floodable' & 'on_flood' docs by BluebirdGreycoat
09:35 nerzhul also #5649
09:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5649 -- Allow scripts to get the client protocol version in non-debug builds. by red-001
09:46 lordfingle joined #minetest-dev
09:50 nerzhul sofar, are you okay too with #5657 ?
09:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5657 -- Search user path for sounds by desttinghim
09:51 nerzhul i will push the following trivial diff to ensure we never copy Scripting objects in ~10-15 min
09:51 nerzhul https://pastebin.com/ZSUriwht
10:13 nerzhul done
10:14 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-dev
10:24 Fritigern joined #minetest-dev
11:30 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
11:38 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
11:43 troller joined #minetest-dev
11:44 Zeno`` joined #minetest-dev
11:56 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:57 proller joined #minetest-dev
11:59 proller__ joined #minetest-dev
12:00 nerzhul oh Zeno` didn't notified about a merge :p
12:00 nerzhul 168 opened pr; does mt needs so many PR ? :p
12:05 Zeno`` silly Zeno`
12:05 Zeno`` (he actually did but didn't realise he was not connected LMAO)
12:08 kilbith you get too old, that's why
12:12 Zeno`` kilbith, that's why I don't think we should use C++11 for the engine... better to stick with Pascal
12:13 Zeno`` Maybe next release we can port to Modula-2 though... not quite sure yet though, it's a pretty new language
12:13 kilbith I thought you were sticking with the punched cards already
12:17 RobbieF joined #minetest-dev
12:20 RobbieF left #minetest-dev
12:26 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
12:43 Fixer sticking to real rocks and sticks
13:08 Megaf joined #minetest-dev
13:15 nerzhul joined #minetest-dev
13:26 XtremeHacker joined #minetest-dev
13:35 twoelk joined #minetest-dev
13:45 benrob03291 joined #minetest-dev
13:46 troller joined #minetest-dev
13:51 octacian joined #minetest-dev
13:57 proller joined #minetest-dev
14:00 troller joined #minetest-dev
14:05 proller joined #minetest-dev
14:06 troller joined #minetest-dev
14:14 DS-minetest joined #minetest-dev
14:38 CalebDavis joined #minetest-dev
14:38 CalebDavis i am wondering is there a way to hide the "<player> is connecting" messages in a server
14:46 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
14:46 destt joined #minetest-dev
14:56 kilbith 2017-04-27 16:55:57: WARNING[Main]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found
14:56 kilbith 2017-04-27 16:55:57: WARNING[Main]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found
15:06 RobbieF joined #minetest-dev
15:21 ShadowNinja About adding better screenshots to the website (https://github.com/minetest/m​inetest.github.io/issues/78).  Good pactures are quite subjective and we'll never do anything if everyone continues adding their own pictures, so I think we should just assign someone (Calinou perhaps?) to decide on some images and add them.
15:39 celeron55 i agree with wuzzy's points there
15:39 celeron55 it's too easy to fall into the trap of just showing off the map generator
15:39 celeron55 there could even be screenshots of a mod being edited
15:42 celeron55 and the wiki basically already has all the screenshots needed
15:43 celeron55 (http://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest)
15:52 sofar I can make some blender screenshots showing model creation
15:55 destt_ joined #minetest-dev
15:59 calculon joined #minetest-dev
16:03 proller joined #minetest-dev
16:06 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
16:11 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
16:16 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
16:26 proller joined #minetest-dev
16:32 CalebDavis left #minetest-dev
16:38 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
16:41 benrob03291 joined #minetest-dev
16:46 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
16:53 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
17:01 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
17:01 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
17:02 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
17:25 Krock joined #minetest-dev
17:25 Krock joined #minetest-dev
17:38 Krock !tell paramat FYI: Non-member approvals aren't shown as "Approved" in the PR list. Example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5622
17:38 ShadowBot Krock: O.K.
17:43 benrob0329_ joined #minetest-dev
17:52 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
17:52 Calinou ShadowNinja: I'm not sure if I'll really pick any images from that thread
17:53 Calinou most of them just scream "I installed 150 mods and I'm happy with it looking utterly inconsistent and ugly"
17:58 est31 joined #minetest-dev
17:58 est31 <CuteAlien> Also for fun - Irrlicht's emscripten port starting to take form: http://www.irrgheist.com/emscripte​n/examples/emscripten_testing.html
17:58 est31 on #emscripten , mozilla IRC
17:59 sfan5 why are they porting to emscripten now
17:59 est31 might be an interesting project for minetest.
17:59 sfan5 and not wasm?
17:59 est31 emscripten can also target wasm
17:59 Krock sweet.
18:00 est31 emscripten is the SDK created by mozilla, originally for asm.js but now also for wasm
18:00 sfan5 oh
18:00 est31 not sure though how much of it will be relevant once the llvm/clang wasm backend takes off.
18:00 est31 I think you need sort of a runtime as well, which is what emscripten provides
18:01 sfan5 you do
18:01 kilbith glad to see there est31
18:02 est31 just wanted to share this, maybe minetest can get a web browser demo on the web page like terasology has
18:02 Calinou Terasology's uses a Java applet though :P
18:02 Calinou also, Minetest on the Web platform is going to be lots of work
18:02 Calinou 1) we need to have non-buggy OpenGL ES 2
18:02 est31 yeah, and java is going to be geprecated haha
18:02 Calinou 2) filesystem access (for local worlds)
18:02 Calinou 3) don't even think about multiplayer
18:03 Calinou performance will likely be lackluster, it's not like native Minetest is too fast already
18:03 sfan5 Calinou: WebRTC :^)
18:03 est31 yeah, performance will be worse, not better
18:03 sfan5 i heard it's huge trouble to set up though
18:03 est31 yeah
18:04 Calinou sfan5: do we have the manpower to rewrite the network protocol?
18:04 sfan5 we don't
18:04 sfan5 need to
18:04 est31 there was a proposal somewhere for a protocol that is less overhead though
18:04 sfan5 sctp
18:04 sfan5 we're not doing that
18:04 est31 but until it arrives in browsers, it takes some time
18:04 sfan5 oh you didn't mean that
18:04 Calinou I heard WebRTC uses SCTP internally
18:05 est31 sfan5: yeah, I'm searching for a link atm
18:07 est31 meh no idea
18:08 est31 gtg
18:08 est31 left #minetest-dev
18:20 est31 joined #minetest-dev
18:20 est31 ah yes
18:20 est31 http://new.gafferongames.com/post/why_c​ant_i_send_udp_packets_from_a_browser/
18:20 est31 https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode.io
18:20 est31 but at this stage its useles, as its not implemented by browsers
18:20 est31 best bet now is WebRTC
18:20 est31 i think the biggest problem will be the missing pthreads support for wasm
18:21 est31 minetest has various threads talking to each other. not possible with wasm amt
18:21 est31 atm*
18:21 est31 left #minetest-dev
18:34 twoelk Java applet in a browser? aren't they sort of blocking that in current browser releases?
18:39 SaTa joined #minetest-dev
18:39 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
18:39 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
18:39 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
18:39 SaTa joined #minetest-dev
18:42 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
18:48 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
18:54 RobbieF joined #minetest-dev
18:55 kilbith someone to close this shit please: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5670
19:01 Fixer hi est31
19:04 lisac joined #minetest-dev
19:08 RobbieF left #minetest-dev
19:18 paramat joined #minetest-dev
19:21 paramat not sure if 5670 is helpful, it's sort of obvious it's a silly name and might just be lengthy debate with nothing done :]
19:22 VanessaE we've been down that road at least a couple of times already
19:22 paramat perhaps best kept to the forum
19:22 VanessaE and like you said, a fruitless discussion, close it.
19:23 red-001 close it
19:24 red-001 it can be reopened if some sort of conclusion is reached on the forums
19:24 paramat added my comment
19:29 paramat difficult to choose too, any name most will dislike. if we renamed i would just let c55 choose and save huge amounts of suggestions and discussion, it's bound to be an improvement
19:30 VanessaE there was a poll a long time ago about this
19:30 VanessaE http://www.strawpoll.me/32807
19:31 paramat ugh
19:31 VanessaE ?
19:32 sfan5 someone posted "Poll: Should we rename Minetest? (forum.minetest.net)" to /r/linux
19:32 sfan5 lel
19:32 VanessaE ohh brother.
19:32 paramat not sure any of those in the strawpoll are better :]
19:33 nerzhul joined #minetest-dev
19:33 paramat only the last option makes sense
19:34 VanessaE that's the "CowboyNeal" option.
19:34 VanessaE (see also, Slashdot)
19:35 rubenwardy I agree that issue is pointles
19:35 rubenwardy and isn't really linked to development
19:35 rubenwardy I like MT Voxel Engine, as it's not a full rename as such
19:35 Fixer minetest is silly, i hope most of people will agree with that
19:35 Fixer rubenwardy: too long
19:35 VanessaE for the sake of disclosure, I opened that poll years ago when the subject first came up (with any serious discussion that is)
19:36 paramat i have an aversion to names that are overly FOSSy
19:36 Fixer it needs to be pretty short, yet nice
19:36 nerzhul closed
19:36 Fixer please no this minetest or qtpfsgui or mt voxel engine insanity
19:36 nerzhul yetanothervoxelenginewhichroxx
19:36 nerzhul YAVLWR for intimates
19:37 VanessaE heh
19:37 kilbith the hipsters will love it
19:37 kilbith like Calinou
19:37 Fixer YAVLWR.io
19:38 Fixer The OpenMine Engine/TOME, there is already game called TOME
19:38 Fixer both freemine is out
19:39 nerzhul to answer sfan5 and est31, webrtc is not the best choice, websocket is a better choice :p
19:39 paramat i love the idea of FOS software but dislike the militant eliteism
19:39 Fixer Voxel is a bit geeky word
19:39 Fixer OpenCube
19:39 rubenwardy discussions with people usually go: "Oh, it's a voxel game engine that allows you to make any blocky game you like"
19:39 rubenwardy "what's it called?"
19:39 rubenwardy "Minetest"
19:39 rubenwardy "ohh..." frown
19:40 Fixer rubenwardy: test.........
19:40 nerzhul it's celeron55 fault :p
19:40 rubenwardy exactly, "test"
19:40 Fixer STOP TESTING
19:40 Fixer it is an engine, not related to testing
19:40 Fixer of any sort
19:40 paramat Meyencandy :]
19:40 Fixer people will think it is some kind of debugging of whatever
19:40 VanessaE celeron55 should have kept the "mesetint" name :)
19:41 Fixer what is mesetint?
19:42 rubenwardy Our name could be worse
19:42 VanessaE the project was named that for a brief period, early in the 0.4.x series I think it was
19:42 * twoelk wonders why Fixer keeps making all those tests if minetest is not related to testing
19:42 VanessaE but it was more an internal name than world-facing
19:43 rubenwardy VanessaE, I joined when 0.3.1 was the latest, and 0.4 was only previews, and I don't remember it being called that - so maybe it was longer ago
19:43 rubenwardy unless it was internal fully
19:44 Fixer just name it OpenCube :}
19:44 VanessaE in any case yes a new name is needed, has been for years, but there are more important issues than its name.
19:45 rubenwardy like our crappy looking unresponsive formspecs
19:46 Calinou minetest_game was called Mesetint for a month or so
19:46 nerzhul just finish the 0.4.X cycle and we can talk about things and break
19:46 Tmanyo joined #minetest-dev
19:46 Calinou like, in March 2012
19:46 Calinou after the engine-game split
19:46 nerzhul just a note, if we rename artifact on android, users won't be notified, it will be a new app
19:47 rubenwardy erm
19:47 rubenwardy you can't rename the namespace, yes, but you can rename the app
19:47 VanessaE rubenwardy: there are more important issues than formspecs :P
19:47 Thomas-S Fixer, actually OpenCube sounds good to me, but I think its abbreviation "OC" may lead to confusions. This abbreviation is already used for a well-known person of the Minetest community.
19:47 Fixer z-sorting
19:47 nerzhul rubenwardy doesn't want us to merge formspec PR :p
19:48 VanessaE and you can easily rename the namespace as long as you have an alias to the old one.
19:48 kilbith VanessaE: because you don't mess often with that
19:48 rubenwardy VanessaE: not android namespaces
19:48 Fixer Thomas-S: should not a problem at all
19:48 VanessaE rubenwardy: well you say "namespace" I think modding
19:48 rubenwardy I was responding to nerzhul :)
19:49 VanessaE oh that, didn't see it.
19:49 VanessaE kilbith: every time I play I see formspecs in one way or another...  yes they're ugly, but at least the're functional
19:50 kilbith they're not just ugly, irrlicht 2d tools lack plenty of useful methods
19:50 kilbith and it's a PITA to manipulate the irrlicht 2D components on eg. Android
19:51 rubenwardy the irrlicht people themselves even said you should use another GUI library
19:51 kilbith that's not its primary job
19:51 rubenwardy exactly
19:51 VanessaE there are still more important things to do than to mess with formspecs.
19:51 rubenwardy they focus on being a 3d rendering engine, the GUI is just bonus
19:52 nerzhul just design GUI using mapblocks :p
19:52 kilbith in the educational world, the GUI area matters a lot
19:52 rubenwardy For me the biggest issue are the formspecs, I don't get stuttering and whilst I'd like better performance/view range it's usable. I don't play multiplayer so I don't many of the big bugs
19:52 nerzhul not only, ergonomy is part of every good products
19:54 celeron55 you can throw name suggestions at me; i haven't completely thrown away the notion of changing the name
19:55 kilbith btw, am I the only one to receive some hatred PMs every morning now?
19:56 rubenwardy from whom?
19:56 celeron55 one thing i've thought about is publishing minetest under many names, at the same time
19:56 kilbith looks like OldDick
19:56 rubenwardy red-001,
19:56 * Fixer throws OpenCube at celeron55
19:56 VanessaE kilbith: offtopic for here, and no you aren't the only one.
19:57 celeron55 opencube is like a million things already
19:57 paramat nerzhul please could you address the line comment in the clouds.api PR so the author can finish it? #4524
19:57 VanessaE celeron55: OpenMiner sounds good to me.
19:57 kilbith don't care whether it's offtopic
19:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4524 -- Clouds api by bendeutsch
19:57 celeron55 probably many companies even
19:57 VanessaE meh, can't use that name
19:57 Fixer crap, can confirm
19:57 Fixer OpenCube - Responsive Menus
19:57 celeron55 openminer is a million things also
19:57 Fixer suggestive as hell
19:57 celeron55 you can't use simple names like that
19:58 Fixer openvoxel is taken
19:58 VanessaE Mesecrafter
19:58 rubenwardy I suggest posting a criteria/your opinion on here: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=17133
19:58 Fixer opencraft also taken
19:58 VanessaE only 11 google results for "Mesecrafter", most of which are minetest related
19:58 twoelk you can craft mese?
19:58 Fixer VanessaE: retarded
19:59 VanessaE twoelk: you can craft stuff with it :)
19:59 VanessaE Fixer: well suggest a better one then
19:59 celeron55 if you put mese in the name, it's certainly usable
19:59 celeron55 one option is pulling the name from the project i tried to make in 2015, buildat
19:59 Fixer CeleCraft
20:00 VanessaE nah, buildat is overly-generic also, no offense.
20:00 AntumDeluge joined #minetest-dev
20:00 celeron55 i still think the april 1st prank was good
20:00 celeron55 i don't remember the year, but
20:00 celeron55 communismcraft
20:00 VanessaE what was it?  I kinda tried to avoid th....   oh. :P
20:00 Fixer PepeCraft
20:00 Fixer that will be massive win
20:00 paramat buildat has some charm though, unlike the suggestions in the strawpoll
20:00 twoelk I don't think the name should be related to cubes, voxels or mining as it seems the engine aims at not being restricted to that
20:01 Fixer introduce pepe instead of nyancat
20:01 VanessaE twoelk: the engine may aim to be generic but at the end of the day it's still a voxel grid
20:01 red-001 why did you call me rubenwardy ?
20:01 Fixer Pepecraft | SpigotMC - High Performance Minecraft
20:01 celeron55 it's a voxel engine, that's not going to change; but crafting or so isn't really a focus
20:01 twoelk rather node grid in respect to unvoxely dreambuilder
20:01 Fixer yeah
20:02 Fixer but voxel itself is kinda creepy
20:03 kilbith where, in the nickname?
20:03 VanessaE kilbith: the user@host
20:03 kilbith ah, noted
20:03 kilbith but it's kinda fun 8)
20:03 red-001 get's old after a while
20:03 celeron55 this was one of my crazy name lists in 2013 https://gist.github.com/celeron55/5494364
20:04 celeron55 i actually took buildat from that list
20:04 Fixer voxelness
20:04 Fixer KEK
20:04 paramat Mined the gap
20:04 Fixer that list is insane
20:05 paramat Voxpants
20:05 VanessaE all of those names are terrible :P
20:05 shivajiva bump https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5622
20:05 Fixer VolumetricPixel3D
20:05 celeron55 it's possible to have much longer names too
20:05 Fixer .io
20:06 celeron55 like, we could have a sentence as a project name
20:06 Fixer Volumetric Pixel 3D 2017 engine
20:07 VanessaE that's just horrible
20:07 celeron55 in 2010 a game called VVVVVV was released
20:07 Fixer roguelike one iirc
20:07 Fixer there is vvv program
20:08 paramat those crazy names actually have charm, which is why i would let c55 choose
20:08 Fixer Volumetric Pixel Simulator 2017
20:08 celeron55 i'd change the name to mesetint any day that more than like 1 person said they like it
20:09 shivajiva lol
20:09 celeron55 These Voxels Might Have Names
20:09 * celeron55 the name artist
20:09 Fixer rename it to just "Pepe" and it will be a huge hit
20:10 VanessaE heh
20:10 Fixer will be in first results in google search
20:10 VanessaE Meseland
20:10 twoelk with "mesetint" the typicall reaction to hearing the name first time will be a "what?" instead of the usual frown at minetest
20:11 Fixer MinePepe, that is just silly
20:12 Fixer twoelk: minetest is worse than what
20:12 Fixer VanessaE: mese is just a block from a subgame(game)
20:12 celeron55 i think "what?" is a good reaction
20:12 VanessaE Fixer: it's also something you won't find in any other game
20:13 VanessaE and no matter how you slice it, to the average person, Minetest Engine == minetest_game ...  so capitalize on it.
20:13 shivajiva ^
20:13 twoelk I don't think the "-tint" part of mesetint works well though - at least not in english
20:14 Fixer engine is supposed to be independant
20:15 VanessaE Fixer: to the average person, it doesn't matter
20:15 VanessaE they.  don't.  care.
20:15 VanessaE so instead of trying to fight that, capitalize on it.
20:15 Fixer VanessaE: minetest_game is kinda crippled and may need a reborning
20:15 Fixer capitalize crippled sandbox subgame?
20:16 VanessaE Fixer: no, silly.  capitalize on the connection between engine and game.
20:16 VanessaE no engine install comes without _game
20:16 Fixer VanessaE: but there should be more games included with this engine
20:16 VanessaE (in normal packaged installs that is)
20:16 VanessaE yes there should
20:16 VanessaE but there aren't.
20:17 * twoelk doesn't think mtg is beyond repair
20:17 VanessaE and I'm saying capitalize on the good things mt_game has, or the things unique to it
20:17 VanessaE i.e. mese or whatever else
20:17 nerzhul just a note, can we finish the current roadmap, there are 171 PR active, i think it's more important for 0.4.16 cycle than a name :)
20:17 Fixer mese is almost useless
20:17 Fixer only good part is lamps...
20:17 Fixer and tools
20:18 VanessaE lamps...and tools...and magical stuff...and power sources....and...and...
20:18 twoelk on many servers mese is vital for crafting protection
20:18 nerzhul paramat, sorry but none of my last comments were addresses
20:18 VanessaE just because it's not well-used in mt_game doesn't mean it's just some random block
20:18 nerzhul addressed*
20:18 VanessaE the point of mentioning it is that nothing else has Mese.
20:18 celeron55 minetest works well for all languages where "test" isn't a native word :P
20:18 celeron55 so, just not in the US and UK and such
20:18 Fixer use CeleCraft and be done with it :trollface:
20:18 celeron55 everywhere else it's surprisingly quite fine
20:19 nerzhul google is a native word too, minegoogle can be a good name :p
20:19 VanessaE celeron55: actually "test" is a native word in like 40% of the world.
20:19 Fixer including my country
20:20 Fixer test part is horrifying
20:20 Fixer get rid of it
20:20 twoelk in german it sounds like my-test
20:21 nerzhul Fixer, right, let's call it minekampf
20:21 nerzhul :D
20:21 VanessaE ...
20:21 Fixer minekraft
20:21 RobbieF joined #minetest-dev
20:21 nerzhul 1 point godwin !
20:21 Fixer ms will be pissed
20:21 paramat nerzhul the author is asking your advice in a line comment
20:21 Fixer nerzhul: new best seller now in 3d /s
20:22 nerzhul oh i have missed it no ? can you link it please ?
20:23 celeron55 i should have come up with another bad name at the start though
20:23 celeron55 if this was called derpxel, nobody would have ever complained
20:23 Fixer https://www.reddit.com/r/VoxelGameDev/comm​ents/why8x/the_big_list_of_block_engines/
20:23 Fixer herpexel
20:23 VanessaE celeron55: nah, then you'd have people complaining that it's a stupid, even offensive name in the same vein as those who complain about The GIMP.
20:24 celeron55 i think derpxel fits fairly well
20:24 paramat lol
20:24 Fixer gimp still at gtk2
20:24 VanessaE Fixer: thank G*d.
20:24 celeron55 who would leave the project if it was renamed to derpxel? nobody? ok good
20:24 VanessaE fuck gtk3
20:24 celeron55 i'm going with derpxel
20:24 VanessaE fuck gtk3 up the ass with a rust pole, no lube, blunt end first.
20:24 paramat nerzhul https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/4524#discussion_r113557684
20:24 Fixer https://www.reddit.com/r/VoxelGameDev/wiki/index
20:25 celeron55 and it's going to be pronounced "derpkel" just for the sake of it
20:25 shivajiva I think Vanessa is just pointing out we need something to tie the game and engine for the public perception even though they are separate entities we shouldn't unlink them totally, that way we have a common search reference
20:25 nerzhul paramat, ty
20:26 Fixer derpixel ?
20:26 VanessaE shivajiva: well perhaps, but that's kinda overstating it.
20:26 Fixer celeron55: voxel.io - hipster friendly
20:26 VanessaE celeron55: I hope not.  that's a horrible name
20:26 celeron55 VanessaE: there's no name in existence you wouldn't call horrible; it makes your opinion irrelevant
20:27 VanessaE celeron55: that's not true and you know it :P
20:27 celeron55 well then say one that isn't taken
20:27 shivajiva me overstated nah ;)
20:27 VanessaE celeron55: I did.  twice.
20:27 paramat mesetint is a fine name
20:27 celeron55 oh the mese based ones
20:28 VanessaE yeah.
20:28 nerzhul "nyancatcontroversy the game"
20:28 nerzhul #troll
20:28 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
20:28 paramat the worst names are the unimaginative combinations of 'free open cube voxel miner'
20:28 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
20:28 paramat like 'freeminer' :]
20:29 celeron55 i'd never use anything like that
20:29 shivajiva lol
20:29 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
20:29 celeron55 even calling the game "sally" would be better like most open source projects seem to be these days
20:29 celeron55 just pick a random name, not related in any way
20:29 nerzhul openceleron55
20:29 celeron55 you can never recall how to launch programs on the command line as the names are just whatever
20:30 celeron55 like, who here even knows what their file browser's executable name is
20:30 Fixer Voxel.cpp
20:30 VanessaE thunar. :)
20:31 Shara 'name goes here'
20:31 VanessaE (how the fuck it got to be called that? no idea)
20:31 Fixer explorer.exe
20:31 celeron55 VanessaE: exactly, lol
20:31 Fixer and that is most depressing part
20:32 celeron55 what if i translate meseland to finnish: mesemaa
20:32 celeron55 that sounds funky
20:33 celeron55 then put some bad ass funk on the main menu and blow all other game engines out of the water as they don't have funk on their main menus
20:33 VanessaE heh
20:34 celeron55 mesefunk
20:34 celeron55 the branding opportunities are endless
20:35 paramat finnish words could work well
20:35 celeron55 i'd love it if i could change the name to mesemaa
20:36 paramat like 'kuutio'
20:36 VanessaE SandVox Engine and meseland_game.   there.
20:36 celeron55 just calling it kuutio would be fine too
20:36 rubenwardy how is that pronounced?
20:36 celeron55 there are some IoT products and stuff that have simple finnish words as names and people like them
20:36 VanessaE fek, sandvox is taken :(
20:37 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
20:38 paramat wow so many games have either cube, voxel, craft or mine, so boring
20:38 celeron55 rubenwardy: google translate doesn't get it entirely wrong
20:39 nerzhul IronVoxel
20:41 shivajiva kuutio shows an image of a cube, simple, I kinda like that for some reason
20:42 celeron55 kuutio is the direct translation of cube with the same exact meaning
20:42 rubenwardy kuut.io is taken though, so we couldn't be hipster
20:42 VanessaE 286'000 results.
20:42 celeron55 it's a common finnish word, you're going to get some results, lol
20:42 Fixer went away for a minute, and AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:42 VanessaE so I assumed :P
20:42 twoelk kuuitomaa?
20:43 VanessaE "No results found for kuuitomaa"
20:43 VanessaE it almost sounds....Japanese
20:43 celeron55 that sounds kind of retarded actually (and has a typo on it)
20:43 Fixer please no
20:43 celeron55 palikkamaa would be the same thing more naturally said
20:43 Fixer even worse than minetest
20:43 celeron55 palikka is like block
20:44 VanessaE taken.
20:44 Fixer you can't even remember this
20:44 paramat i briefly started work on a mod-base subgame one night recently and called it Kuutiocore
20:44 VanessaE (45 results, some kind of LEGO thing)
20:44 rubenwardy It needs to be pronounceable and spellable by an English-speaker, really
20:44 VanessaE Kuutiocore - "cutey-o-core"
20:45 celeron55 rubenwardy: who ares, mese is fine too :D
20:45 celeron55 cares*
20:45 celeron55 and nobody says it the same
20:45 VanessaE MEsecore :)
20:45 celeron55 kuutiocore sounds cool to a finnish speaker
20:45 VanessaE nah, taken :(
20:46 celeron55 very cool actually
20:46 VanessaE kuutiocore actually sounds okay to an English speaker too
20:46 Shara it is a little long though.
20:46 Shara Going to see lots of wonderful mis-spellings with something like that
20:46 celeron55 it could be shortened to kcore or kuutioc for file names and stuff
20:46 VanessaE "cue-TEE-o-core" is probably how one would want to pronounce it (rather than "CUtie-o-core")
20:47 red-001 that makes it sound like part of kde
20:47 paramat spellable or obvious pronunciation isn't important, finnish words and/or a japanese sound sound very cool to English speakers
20:47 Fixer rubenwardy: not just english speaker
20:47 twoelk I don't think finish pronounce it like cute
20:47 celeron55 VanessaE: that's correct
20:47 Shara Suddenly I worry we'll end up with Cute Cubes somehow...
20:47 celeron55 i mean
20:47 twoelk probabbly more like cut
20:47 VanessaE paramat: marketing.  how it sounds/is pronounced is absolutely important
20:48 celeron55 long u, like VE said; cue
20:48 paramat yeah
20:48 twoelk ah
20:48 VanessaE (my husband does these at-home surveys.  maybe a lot of BS, but you can learn a few things from them)
20:49 paramat a word not obvious in it's pronunciation raises interest and people have fun choosing a pronunciation, which is why we love mese :]
20:49 celeron55 i guess community members won't mind if the main project steals their name some day...
20:49 destt_ joined #minetest-dev
20:49 VanessaE celeron55: fyi, "uu" is a long-"you" sound in English, as in vacuum
20:50 celeron55 the way cue and vacuum is said is like finnish "y" though, which might be the same thing as ü in some languages
20:51 Fixer found this https://www.reddit.com/r/g​amedev/wiki/block_engines
20:51 VanessaE good lord
20:51 VanessaE didn't know there were so many
20:51 paramat when i googled for the finnish for cube i actually laughed loud at how cool and cute it was
20:53 paramat i added core to suggest it is what you add modules to
20:53 Karazhan joined #minetest-dev
20:54 rubenwardy terasology was in google summer of code last year O_o
20:54 celeron55 there are lots of finnish words that all are weird to pronounce to a foreigner; something like "suorakulma" comes to mind (straight angle; mathematically and as a tool)
20:55 celeron55 that would be a funny reference to building
20:55 VanessaE "soo-rah-kull-ma" is how one might pronounce that here.
20:56 nerzhul fusrohdah !
20:57 twoelk not so'ura.....?
20:57 VanessaE goozfrabah... ;)
20:57 VanessaE twoelk: it would vary.  I could see both./
20:58 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
20:58 Hijiri I think a new GUI API should be entirely in client-side modding and do stuff on the server by message channels
20:58 VanessaE twoelk: think fluorine/fluoride.  floor-een, floor-ide
20:58 Hijiri (this implies that the server can send client mods to the client)
20:58 celeron55 you literally probably just put the word in [] to get the IPA notation
20:58 Amaz Some of these sound almost like names Ikea would come up with for their furniture :P
20:58 nerzhul Hijiri, nothing new, it was already discussed
20:58 Hijiri oh, ok
20:58 VanessaE celeron55: whoever came up with IPA apparently doesn't speak English ;)
20:58 RobbieF left #minetest-dev
20:59 nerzhul but we talk we talk and PR are not finished, please review your PR guys, enhance them, and help us to close issues (by sending PR or notify us which issue to close)
20:59 Hijiri #5612
20:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5612 -- Allow overriding tool capabilities through itemstack metadata by raymoo
20:59 twoelk now english is a pretty bad example for pronounciation code in spelling :-P
21:00 paramat Ikea names are very cool
21:00 sfan5 can we rename to Björn
21:00 Fixer MineCube
21:00 twoelk Oerkiimaa?
21:00 paramat heh
21:01 VanessaE sfan5: what about Agnetha, Benny, Anni-Frid ?
21:01 VanessaE :)
21:01 sfan5 we will required further included subgames to rename to that
21:01 sfan5 s/d / /
21:02 twoelk have björn with subgame agnetha and add mod benny with texturpack annifrid
21:02 celeron55 all of those sound swedish
21:02 shivajiva lol
21:02 VanessaE they are. :)
21:02 shivajiva brotherhood of man
21:03 paramat motherhood of bran
21:03 celeron55 naming something finnish with a swedish word would seem like a joke to every finnish person
21:03 VanessaE celeron55: they're the names of the band members of ABBA :)
21:03 celeron55 oh, well that makes sense
21:05 * twoelk wonders how well abba tunes might work with mt
21:05 celeron55 (joke, kind of like the thing is so bad it can't have a finnish name)
21:06 rubenwardy lol
21:07 shivajiva when does the mamma mia release come out?
21:07 rubenwardy I suggest we name the engine to Kuutio when we Finnish it
21:07 celeron55 the bad release?, let's rush it
21:07 shivajiva rofl
21:08 Fixer finish him
21:08 shivajiva nice one ruben
21:14 ssieb joined #minetest-dev
21:21 XtremeHacker joined #minetest-dev
21:24 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
21:26 Fixer name it OpenMinecraft and insult everyone at the same time
21:26 Fixer like OpenTTD, OpenRA, OpenXcom
21:27 Amaz joined #minetest-dev
21:29 sofar OpenFreeGNUMineTest
21:29 sofar there, we're done now
21:30 VanessaE hah
21:32 Karazhan joined #minetest-dev
21:32 paramat so shall we merge new chests? nore rubenwardy sfan5
21:33 sfan5 seems fine to me
21:33 VanessaE you mean the ones that look open?
21:33 paramat game#793
21:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/793 -- Improve Chest appearance - opening chests. by sofar
21:34 VanessaE yeah.
21:34 paramat mods will need to update chest textures?
21:35 paramat no, it just breaks texture packs, ok by me
21:35 VanessaE it breaks pipeworks too, fwiw
21:36 Karazhan joined #minetest-dev
21:36 paramat good chance now to merge it
21:37 paramat so probably merge tonight
21:38 rubenwardy paramat,  +1 for concept, I haven't tested or reviewed
21:38 garywhite It doesn't seem like a needed issue, & if it breaks pipeworks, that's gonna screw up a lot of servers
21:38 garywhite So I'm gonna have to -1
21:38 garywhite Good idea, but needs the bugs worked out 100% before adding
21:39 VanessaE as far as I know it'll only break the textures
21:39 paramat there are no bugs
21:39 VanessaE pipeworks adds an "tube connection" overlay image.  It shouldn't be hard to fix
21:39 garywhite So it won't destroy the mod?
21:39 paramat nore mentioned a small issue of laggy formspec
21:39 VanessaE I don't think so but I have not tried it.
21:40 garywhite Then as long as it doesn't destroy the mod, then I  change it to a +1
21:40 Karazhan joined #minetest-dev
21:40 VanessaE I can just check the drawtype of the node, if it's mesh, adapt how the overlay is used.
21:40 paramat i'm sure the maintainer of pipeworks will quickly update
21:40 VanessaE however, there's other stuff
21:40 VanessaE the mod basically has to redefine the chests completely
21:41 VanessaE because at the time, there wasn't an API that I could override/wedge into
21:42 VanessaE in addition to the overlays, pipeworks also adds a little "toggle switch" to the chest's formspec
21:43 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest-mods/pip​eworks/blob/master/compat-chests.lua
21:43 VanessaE off the top of my head, I think you'll just get the old chest behavior
21:43 VanessaE but with broken textures
21:45 VanessaE this btw is another argument for not using the all-in-one image that's been proposed.
21:45 VanessaE (still requires changes to pipeworks though, regardless)
21:47 Karazhan joined #minetest-dev
21:49 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
21:54 VanessaE so, can something be added to let me modify the formspec so that I don't have to redefine it so thoroughly?
21:55 VanessaE just making the formspec strings and functions global might be enough.
21:55 rubenwardy would be awesome to abstract sfinv for this
21:55 rubenwardy and also make it better at modifying things
21:58 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
22:00 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
22:03 kilbith joined #minetest-dev
22:15 octacian_ joined #minetest-dev
22:16 davisonio joined #minetest-dev
22:17 Dumbeldo1 joined #minetest-dev
22:18 Icedream joined #minetest-dev
22:31 CSBot joined #minetest-dev
22:33 Wayward_One joined #minetest-dev
22:36 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev
22:44 benrob0329 joined #minetest-dev
23:19 Fixer detected a new strange bug related to rendering of borders in protected redo which was broken in very recent builds, something changed in engine so that entity disappears when i look in certain direction?
23:19 proller joined #minetest-dev
23:20 octacian joined #minetest-dev
23:27 proller joined #minetest-dev
23:41 bkeys joined #minetest-dev
23:41 bkeys Hello, I got your master server running on my pi and I tried to replicate the JSON that is sent in the POST request
23:41 bkeys https://da.gd/ML3o
23:41 bkeys This is my python code
23:42 bkeys https://da.gd/YHRk
23:42 bkeys And this is the JSON it is sending to the web server. I believe all the fields are there
23:42 bkeys They are in a different order; but I don't think that matters. The master server sees the request; is there anything else I need to do to register a server? Because it is not showing on on the server list
23:43 bkeys I turned on the DEBUG option in the config.py file but it is not giving me any output on why the server is not being registered
23:45 bkeys I got it pulling from the master server list no problem (which actually feels really cool). Once I POST and register a master server I would only need to replicate the JSON that deregisters it and I got what I need. I already have the exit JSON documented too.
23:45 bkeys Maybe once I have this working in my game I can document in a .md file how to use it; so others can benefit from this master server
23:48 rubenwardy You really should read the source, it'll be helpful
23:49 rubenwardy also, your address needs to be pointing to a Minetest server
23:49 bkeys I am doing that now
23:49 bkeys (reading the source)
23:50 bkeys I added an IP address and it is the same
23:50 bkeys According to the source it should print out an error
23:51 paramat joined #minetest-dev
23:54 bkeys https://github.com/minetest/master​-server/blob/master/server.py#L42
23:54 bkeys It is not getting past line 42 for some reason
23:55 paramat Fixer is protected redo using textures with backface culling? wild guess
23:56 Fixer paramat: no idea, posted an issue here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5671 commit in question is betw 17-22 apr
23:58 VanessaE Fixer: I've seen the same glitch with Worldedit's selection box.
23:59 Fixer VanessaE: it is a new change/bug
23:59 Fixer will bisect tommorrow

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext