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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-04-25

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Time Nick Message
00:05 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
00:31 Wayward_One I experienced that too today, newest engine as well
00:36 Lunatrius joined #minetest-dev
00:36 Tmanyo joined #minetest-dev
01:06 benrob0329 Video posted earlier today is now unlisted
01:06 benrob0329 currently working on remaking it in Kdenlive
01:10 benrob0329 oops, wrong channel
01:11 paramat ok
01:40 paramat sofar #3497 could be merged with a small fix or 2
01:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3497 -- Allow mesh and nodeboxes to wave like plants or leaves. by sofar
01:42 paramat i'll +1 if L660 is fixed
01:45 paramat also see if there's anything usable from #3515
01:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3515 -- Improve waving definitions by BlockMen
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02:47 sofar too tired to tend to prs, need food and espresso first
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04:52 sofar rebased and fixed up game#793 (chests)
04:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/793 -- Improve Chest appearance - opening chests. by sofar
04:54 benrob0329 +1
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05:13 destt_ Is there any problem with merging #5645?
05:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5645 -- Footsteps without view bobbing by desttinghim
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06:11 Zeno` destt_, no problem
06:11 Zeno` will merge in 10 mins
06:12 Zeno` I actually meant to do it about 24 hours ago but... well got distracted :)
06:14 nerzhul which PR Zeno` ?
06:16 Zeno` #5645
06:16 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5645 -- Footsteps without view bobbing by desttinghim
06:16 nerzhul ty
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06:38 nerzhul i will merge trivial #5656 after travis pass, in ~1h
06:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5656 -- Fix various points reported by cppcheck by nerzhul
06:46 destt_ Zeno` thanks
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07:17 destt_ PR #5646 updated zeno` nerzhul
07:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5646 -- Fix digging torches by clicking by HybridDog
07:20 sofar it's closed
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07:32 destt_ Oh wait, wrong number
07:32 destt_ #5645
07:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5645 -- Footsteps without view bobbing by desttinghim
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08:17 nerzhul merging #5656
08:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5656 -- Fix various points reported by cppcheck by nerzhul
08:19 sfan5 nerzhul: i think you have misunderstood what trivial means
08:19 sfan5 >If you have a small patch, fixing some compiler error or other trivial mistake, notify about fixing it on #minetest-dev, wait for 5...15 minutes and push it.
08:19 sfan5 "small"
08:22 nerzhul i notified 1 h ago
08:23 sfan5 i was referencing the patch size, +27 -39 is not a small patch imo
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08:42 nerzhul maybe i should do more and more commits then :), but it's not useful to polute commit history for changing iterator increment heh
08:49 kilbith PM'd hmmmm to get him back
08:51 nerzhul kilbith the troll :p
09:00 kilbith could there been a new rule enforcing 3 approvals to merge new features made out of >1000 lines?
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11:07 Zeno` merging #5645
11:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5645 -- Footsteps without view bobbing by desttinghim
11:13 Zeno` done
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11:18 est31 hi, just closed all the issues and PRs by me that were still open
11:19 est31 half of the issues and PRs were outdated, and no longer relevant
11:19 est31 other half was controversial
11:19 est31 and many of the PRs were just good drafts, nothing more
11:19 nerzhul est31, okay,  thanks you
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12:48 DS-minetest could we make an alias from moreores tin to default tin?
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15:07 red-001 nerzhul, could you add app image or something simlar to gitlab?
15:08 sfan5 why do you want everything built by gitlab
15:08 red-001 it's easy?
15:08 sfan5 there's already user-provided builds tho
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15:14 ShadowNinja Regarding #2275: Adding this to everything already there won't be fun, but I think it's reasonable to request it for any newly added APIs.
15:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2275 -- lua_api.txt should have a since field for every function
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16:15 destt_ I made another simple pull request #5657
16:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5657 -- Search user path for sounds by desttinghim
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17:21 ShadowNinja I'll push a commit renaming the serverscripting/clientscripting files to scripting_* soonish to make them consistent with scripting_mainmenu.
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17:39 Krock Yes, sounds good.
17:40 TeTpaAka What is still needed to make #2738 acceptable?
17:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2738 -- Make the player collisionbox settable by TeTpaAka
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18:31 Fixer crash again, hmmmmm
18:31 Fixer time to build debug
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19:17 Fixer will try to catch a backtrace
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19:21 paramat please could devs consider #2738 ? it has a hack but it's necessary and there seems to be no alternative
19:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2738 -- Make the player collisionbox settable by TeTpaAka
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19:55 paramat game#793 is fixed and rebased nore sfan5 and all
19:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/793 -- Improve Chest appearance - opening chests. by sofar
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20:18 VanessaE :-1: paramat sofar
20:18 VanessaE you need to UV-map those images as separate tiles
20:19 sofar what do you mean?
20:19 sofar there's 8 tiles
20:19 sofar anything more than 6 ... does that even work?
20:19 VanessaE yeah I know and honestly, you're doing it wrong :)
20:19 VanessaE remove one of the two black-with-border images, make the two side images identical
20:20 VanessaE then you can split it into six images and use tiles={} to texture it like any other node
20:20 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
20:20 sofar that would force symmetry
20:20 VanessaE one material per side
20:20 sofar forcing symmetry is a loss of freedom
20:20 VanessaE so? 99.999% of chest imagery is like that
20:20 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
20:20 VanessaE as are real chests
20:20 sofar it wouldn't be like any other node
20:20 sofar since now some arbitrary element in the array is "the inside"
20:21 VanessaE well you know what I meant :P
20:21 sofar and the inside of the lid would have your pile of gold as well, magically stuck up the lid?
20:21 VanessaE mmmh
20:21 VanessaE ok, then do this?"
20:21 VanessaE ok, then do this:
20:21 VanessaE make one image that contains the two inside faces
20:22 VanessaE one that contains the two siders
20:22 VanessaE sides*
20:22 VanessaE then UV map the rest
20:22 VanessaE so you have four separate images for top/bottom/front/back, one image with two parts for the sides, one with two parts for the inside
20:22 sofar I hear your points
20:22 VanessaE as long as you supply no more than 6 distinct PNG images, you can UV map freely
20:22 sofar and I understand them
20:23 sofar but I chose not to, for exactly the same reasons almost a year ago
20:23 sofar and today I'm still not convinced, sorry
20:23 VanessaE very well, just consider that HDX would need a 2048px-wide image for that chest.
20:23 VanessaE that would be above the tile size limit for some GPUs
20:24 VanessaE (older ones)
20:24 sofar 512px textures and older GPU's
20:24 sofar say it out loud
20:24 sofar record it
20:24 VanessaE heh yeah I know it sounds counter-intuitive :)
20:24 sofar upload it to google drive
20:24 sofar share the link with me, please
20:25 VanessaE all right all right
20:25 sofar I want to hear you say that with a straight face, lol
20:25 VanessaE wiseass :)
20:25 sofar sorry, I totally get what you're saying
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20:25 GreenDimond what is considered an 'old' GPU?
20:25 sofar the one issue I have with reusing left/right textures is that I think we're forcing symmetry too much
20:25 VanessaE at the very least you should split it into two images to keep them both power-of-2 sized.
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20:26 sofar they are power of 2
20:26 VanessaE square*
20:26 sofar and gpu's are very efficient at 2x1 rations
20:26 sofar ratios
20:26 VanessaE I guess some GPUs gets especially stupid at non-square images don't they?
20:26 sofar as long as the texture is wider more than deeper it's good
20:26 VanessaE ok.
20:26 GreenDimond o-0 what is considered an "old" GPU?
20:26 sofar no, they work better sometimes as landscape
20:26 VanessaE then I guess I have no objection
20:26 VanessaE GreenDimond: I was thinking 5 to 10 years old.
20:27 VanessaE (mine for example is about 3 1/2 years old already)
20:28 GreenDimond checking mine...
20:28 VanessaE the one in my husband's machine, an HD6870, is 6 1/2 years old and definitely is no slouch
20:28 GreenDimond mine is 11 years old :)
20:28 VanessaE however, neither of those would have a problem with a 2k-wide texture
20:28 VanessaE so the point is moot
20:28 VanessaE sofar: ok ok just merge it before you have to rebase it for the 47th time :P
20:29 GreenDimond I have a GeForce 84 (8600) which is 11 years old, and it is failing. So I have a GeForce 710 in the mail :)
20:29 GreenDimond but even that is 5 years old
20:30 GreenDimond but hey, it's like 3 times better than the one I have now.
20:36 benrob0329 GreenDiamond: if it works for what you do, go for it :-)
20:36 GreenDimond It has CUDA so Blender should work better now :D (if you want to talk more about this, do so on #minetest, not here :P)
20:37 VanessaE ok guys, getting offtopic now
20:37 GreenDimond So, the chest textures are being merged into one texture? Or did I miss something. @VanessaE: that is what I just said
20:37 VanessaE GreenDimond: that's basically it, since they'll be wrapped around a mesh node.
20:38 VanessaE I just get a little antsy about such merged textures is all.
20:38 sofar understandable
20:38 sofar there's a conflict in there anyway
20:38 sofar we don't want to do too many complex UV maps since they cost more work
20:39 GreenDimond isn't an opening chest gonna look weird if it is under a node?
20:39 sofar but UV maps like these offer more freedom in the end
20:39 sofar GreenDimond: it checks if it can open
20:39 GreenDimond Will it show the formspec if there is a node above?
20:39 sofar if obstructed, you can interact as usual but lid stays closed
20:39 VanessaE sofar: I saw a comment in there about sound playing even when a chest can't visibly open.  was that already addressed?
20:39 GreenDimond ah you answered as I asked
20:40 sofar sound plays when opened irregardless
20:40 GreenDimond makes sense
20:40 sofar the sound is an immersive thing, removing sounds makes no sense imho
20:40 VanessaE imho it should only play a sound if it can visibly open
20:40 GreenDimond maybe I am opening it a smidge to reach my arm in to feel around so it makes a sound when it creaks open :)
20:40 VanessaE it's an A-V sync issue
20:40 VanessaE one naturally goes with the other
20:40 sofar there's already little sounds in minetest
20:41 VanessaE maybe a different sound if the chest can't visibly open?
20:41 GreenDimond That would make it more complicated
20:41 VanessaE nah
20:41 GreenDimond no?
20:41 GreenDimond well tru
20:42 GreenDimond does it use the same sound for opening and closing?
20:42 paramat if a chest is under another node i would assume it is a front-openng chest (even if it doesn't look like one) so a sound is ok
20:42 paramat 2 sounds
20:42 GreenDimond ah ok :D
20:42 VanessaE paramat: don't assume
20:43 GreenDimond Assumptions are a huge part of minetest!
20:43 VanessaE if you walked up to a creaky old chest in real life and tried to open it, couldn't, but heard the hinges creak open, wouldn't that send you a sort of "mixed signal"?
20:43 paramat well it would have to be a front-opener
20:43 VanessaE sure, IF it were front-opening chest, but MT's chests aren't :P
20:43 GreenDimond How do you know? They haven't visibly opened til now
20:44 VanessaE GreenDimond: the textures clearly show a top-opening chest :P
20:44 GreenDimond and even then it hasnt been merged so they still havent opened :)
20:44 VanessaE always have.
20:44 GreenDimond It could be tricking you. Mydoors has a hidden chest door. It opens out.
20:44 sofar guys it's always a balancing act
20:45 sofar nobody is every going to like everything 100%
20:45 sofar it's a compromise
20:45 GreenDimond true. just like the sneak ladder.
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20:45 VanessaE sofar: so just make it play a different sound if the chest is obstructed.  address the notion of opens-forward/opens-sideways in some other PR (if at all)
20:46 sofar making the sounds that are in the current PR cost me a long ... long time
20:46 sofar how about we do all that in a next pr?
20:46 GreenDimond I wouldn't bother with the orientation. thats just me.
20:46 paramat a different sound if obstructed makes no more sense
20:46 sofar I wouldn't mind making the API even more generic either
20:47 sofar there's plenty work that could be done
20:47 VanessaE I haven't tried the code so I don't know what sound it makes, but if it were up to me, opening a chest would make a "clunk-click" sort of sound of the chest un-latching followed by a "RRrreeee...." creak as it actually opens. you could use just the "clunk-click" sound for the obstructed sound.
20:47 sofar it's a creaking sound when opening, and a slamming sound when closing
20:47 VanessaE paramat:  it makes perfect sense if the sound is something like unlatching the chest *withouth opening the lid*
20:48 VanessaE -h
20:48 GreenDimond that would be annoying to some people if opened over and over :)
20:48 sofar the hearing radius isn't large
20:48 GreenDimond *clunk-click-clunk-click-clunk-click-*
20:48 sofar and it's attenuated
20:48 sofar so, hardly a nuisance
20:48 GreenDimond oh good
20:49 paramat nope, what would the sound be of?
20:49 VanessaE paramat: of?
20:49 GreenDimond Will an in-game settings menu ever be added?
20:49 paramat makes no more sense than playing the normal sound
20:50 VanessaE paramat: opening an obstructed chest could just be the sound of a latch unbolting.  opening an un-obstructed chest would be single, longer file of that latch + the creaking.
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20:50 GreenDimond the chest's ghost is still opening through the node so it makes the noise. there. myth busted.
20:50 VanessaE you HAVE to match the audio cue to the visuals or it's just plain wrong
20:51 VanessaE come on guys
20:51 VanessaE this isn't rocket science.
20:51 sofar please
20:51 sofar let's work on merging what we have
20:51 sofar it's been a year
20:51 sofar we can improve later easily
20:52 sofar adding a second opening sound is a lot of work
20:52 Fixer is minetest getting increasingly slower when running under gdb?
20:52 sofar finding the right licensed sounds, editing them and making them sound coherent
20:52 GreenDimond Well, you could just use a really short creak. Use the one already there and cut it.
20:52 VanessaE fine.  merge it as-is and maybe I'll make a PR or something later./
20:52 VanessaE (WAY later)
20:52 GreenDimond ^agreed
20:52 sofar Fixer: well it's slower from the start, shouldn't get slower over time though
20:53 paramat if obstructed an audio-visual match would be no sound, which would make more sense than your suggestion, anyway it's fine as it is, the discussion was had in the thread and the author is certain
20:53 VanessaE paramat: um, lock unbolting?
20:54 GreenDimond who said the lock was bolted?
20:54 VanessaE that's an audible cue that the chest was interacted with, without the "squeeee" of the lid opening
20:54 VanessaE GreenDimond: I did, 7 mins ago....
20:54 GreenDimond wait you did?
20:54 VanessaE s/lock/latch/
20:55 paramat the sound of unlocking and then not being able to open the lid? then swearing? the argument is getting ridiculous
20:55 GreenDimond I thought it was done? :)
20:55 GreenDimond "merge it as-is and maybe I'll make a PR or something later"
20:56 paramat accessing a top-opener which can't open is already highly unrealistic already, we can't be perfectionist in this situation
20:56 sofar it's a compromise
20:56 sofar the more important parts are that chests are functional
20:56 sofar and remain so :)
20:56 GreenDimond let's leave it at that.
20:56 GreenDimond (for now)
20:57 sofar afk
20:57 GreenDimond gtg
20:57 * VanessaE shrugs
20:58 VanessaE the irony of all this is I never play with sound turned on anyway
21:03 paramat closed #4791
21:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4791 -- Crack animation visible to other players
21:05 sfan5 wut
21:05 sfan5 paramat: that would be very nice as an optional feature
21:12 paramat seems obviously unacceptable
21:13 paramat lots or work and code for a large increase in mesh updates, for no good reason
21:15 celeron55 i think that's a valid issue
21:16 paramat cracks are ugly and unsuitable on most nodes anyway, we don't need to see others' too. but, ok reopen
21:16 celeron55 maybe not going to happen very soon but a valid issue nevertheless
21:17 celeron55 maybe that user is only playing with 1 friend, likes cracks and only uses cubic stone nodes
21:17 celeron55 8)
21:17 paramat hehe
21:18 Fixer https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1712 now this is kek: true and sad
21:19 paramat first we need to address the problem of rapid crack frames causing mesh update load, such as linking number of crack frames to dig time
21:19 paramat reopened issue
21:19 Fixer spawn particles that indicate mining instead?
21:22 paramat already happens
21:22 paramat doesn't indicate progress though
21:23 paramat #3497 any more support? might merge later
21:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3497 -- Allow mesh and nodeboxes to wave like plants or leaves. by sofar
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21:24 VanessaE I proposed a long while back, when this subject first came up, that if one wants to get rid of cracks, one should temporarily convert the node being dug into a separate mesh, randomly subdivide the mesh into and distort it, repeating distortion (and occasionally subdividing again) as digging progresses
21:24 VanessaE until finally you're left with a random pile of "something", at which point the node disappears.
21:24 VanessaE s/into//
21:25 benrob0329 or perhaps digging away the pixels randomly?
21:25 paramat still does mesh updates though, and would be much more complex
21:25 VanessaE yeah I know
21:25 Fixer just spawn particles of digged block and be done with it
21:25 VanessaE but when this subject came up, the problem was that cracks were just ugly
21:25 red-001 Fixer, so just remove it?
21:25 VanessaE i.e. get rid of them in favor of something nicer
21:26 paramat excessively over-fancy too
21:26 VanessaE (I disagreed then as well, my proposal was a best-case replacement.  RBA wanted to change the color of the highlight halo.  others wanted lots more digging particles)
21:29 celeron55 personally i think it's hard to come up with anything better than the cracks altough the implementation could be improved
21:30 benrob0329 Well what does Pickaxing a chunk of stone do in real life?
21:30 benrob0329 A shovel to the dirt?
21:30 benrob0329 Axe to a tree, etc etc
21:30 benrob0329 (they all do different things)
21:33 kilbith_ the cracks are like my stepmother: painful but unavoidable
21:35 kilbith_ *mother-in-law
21:36 paramat we have a better crack texture suggestion. i would prefer something abstract like countdown numbers or a progress bar or something similar
21:37 VanessaE paramat: oh fuck no
21:37 paramat as cracks look wrong many nodes
21:37 VanessaE numbers/progress bar would look wrong on everything
21:37 paramat but i don't expect my idea to be accepted
21:37 sfan5 please nothing abstract -1
21:37 paramat ^ see
21:37 paramat :]
21:39 paramat abstract would be suitable for everything, whereas a crack is not, but abstract would be unpopular no doubt
21:39 sfan5 you have a weird definition of suitable
21:40 benrob0329 SurvivalCraft uses a circular progress bar, works well enough
21:40 kilbith_ nobody cares of SurvivalCraft
21:40 benrob0329 heh, it works better than Minetest on mobile
21:41 benrob0329 so yes, people do care
21:41 kilbith_ nobody cares
21:41 kilbith_ who are you actually? a developer?
21:41 benrob0329 Do you have statistics to prove your claim?
21:42 red-001 a progress bar would be nice
21:42 sfan5 how does the game itself working nicer relate to some insignificant visual being changed
21:42 benrob0329 kilbith_: Who am I? A player, creator, and idea maker.
21:42 sfan5 red-001: use a texture pack
21:43 red-001 since when can texture packs replace cracks with a progress bar?
21:43 benrob0329 it would be ugly, on every face of the node
21:43 sfan5 texpacks can't replace crack_anylength.png?
21:44 sfan5 would surprise me if they couldn't
21:44 VanessaE sure they can.
21:44 sfan5 red-001: the answer is: they can since texture packs exists for mt
21:44 red-001 why would you even implement it like that?
21:44 sfan5 what
21:45 celeron55 maybe the progress bar people don't want the progress bar to show up on the node though but somewhere in HUD?
21:45 celeron55 dunno
21:46 paramat ^ solving mesh updates?
21:46 benrob0329 ^ idc if its crack or bar, but a bar should be done right
21:46 kilbith_ plus it's rather trivial to do
21:46 VanessaE it's too bad you can't just put an actual animated cracking texture on the node, let irrlicht handle animating it, set the speed according to the dig time of the node with the tool in use
21:46 sfan5 how is a bar "done right"?
21:46 benrob0329 the bar should be over the node, but on the hud
21:46 VanessaE I guess right now you blit the crack on frame by frame?
21:46 sfan5 VanessaE: yup
21:46 VanessaE right, so see above.  can't that be done somehow?
21:47 benrob0329 having the crack actually spread with each swing would be nice
21:47 VanessaE that would surely solve the mesh update problem without losing the cracks
21:47 VanessaE (or for that matter, requiring any new textures)
21:47 celeron55 well you can render a mesh after everything else that is slightly in front of the node being mined and update it as cheaply as any small mesh
21:47 paramat #4524 is updated, very excited for this, will test tonight
21:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4524 -- Clouds api by bendeutsch
22:00 paramat this is the submitted crack texture game#1705
22:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1705 -- new crack anylength
22:01 VanessaE if the one on the left is the new one, I hate it.  uuuuuugly
22:02 sfan5 i have an innovative idea: no crack texture at all
22:02 sfan5 people will like that
22:02 VanessaE crack needs more frames and fix the issue with mesh updates - use the animation idea I just proposed, see if that works.
22:08 kilbith_ or you place an entity that display the crack textures at node position
22:09 kilbith_ the entity would be a cube of 1.0001^3 of size
22:09 VanessaE oh and for the record, I was complaining about these mesh updates years ago.
22:09 kilbith_ you see the hack?
22:09 VanessaE (they show up more easily under HDX)
22:09 VanessaE kilbith_: a single client-side particle displaying the animation might work too
22:10 kilbith_ ok but you see what I meant or no?
22:10 VanessaE yeah, you aim to separate the cracks themselves from the underlying node texture/mesh
22:10 VanessaE something like c55 was suggesting
22:11 kilbith_ yes
22:13 VanessaE the problem though is that the crack would then take up the whole node space and be offset from the object if you're digging something small like a fencepost
22:14 kilbith_ indeed, haven't thought to the nodeboxes
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22:38 sofar you could duplicate the mesh to an entity mesh
22:39 sofar that's fairly trivial
22:41 Fixer i like current cracking for first person, for 3rd person view just add some particles
22:42 Fixer hold on
22:42 Fixer there are particles... at least in 3rd person view, i'm confused
22:42 GreenDimond There are no particles if you have them disabled :P
22:42 Fixer cracks are essential imo, removing it will be baaaaaaaaad
22:42 GreenDimond ^true
22:44 Fixer ah, it is client side, ok
22:44 GreenDimond :O Can't wait for #4524! that looks so cool! when do you think it will be merged?
22:44 Fixer to show it to other players - just spawn few particles and don't show the cracks for them to now slow down with shitty mesh updating
22:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4524 -- Clouds api by bendeutsch
22:45 Fixer to show it to other players - just spawn few particles and don't show the cracks for them to avoid shitty mesh updating* (corrected)
22:45 Fixer my typing is so bad
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23:16 rubenwardy game#1713
23:16 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1713 -- Fix owner not being checked on write to book by rubenwardy
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23:26 Fixer https://pastebin.com/raw/HKz7nHLJ wonder if this makes any senc(s)e... good night
23:28 rubenwardy ...that's not good
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23:28 VanessaE weird
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