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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-04-12

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Time Nick Message
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01:18 nore sofar: should I port all the settings in minetest_game/settingtypes.txt to config API?
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03:58 paramat nore game#1695 ?
03:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1695 -- PB&J Pup: Remove mod by paramat
03:58 nore paramat: I'm neutral about it
03:59 nore I honestly care no more about PB&J Pup than I cared about Nyan cat, so I have no objection at all to removing it :)
04:01 paramat ok will merge later
04:02 sofar nore: well, yes, but, don't go all crazy
04:02 sofar nore: that's more of a post-0.4.16 thing for the new game I think
04:03 sofar nore: we also should change *all* settings to be live updatable then, even tnt and fire
04:03 sofar just make tnt not break nodes
04:03 sofar and make fire not spread
04:03 sofar or burn down nodes
04:03 sofar keep all the code active
04:03 nore well one of the reasons for disabling fire or fire sounds is to get one less ABM active and thus save processing power
04:04 nore so that's why I don't consider it a problem that a restart is needed
04:07 paramat fire and tnt need to be disableable by exiting to menu then re-entering a world
04:07 paramat because of the danger
04:12 paramat classic issue comment: "What about both a cold-summer Mediterranean biome with conifers, ferns, mountains, snow, strong storms, fog, wind, rain, rivers, large shore, mosses, some deciduous, stones and also a warm-summer Mediterranean biome?"
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04:20 sofar no, nonsense
04:20 sofar if fire doesn't spread, the abm is cheap
04:21 sofar plus fire needs to be a node timer
04:21 sofar then the problem is costless anyway
04:22 sofar and you want to keep the nodetimer to tick to make fire nodes go out after a while, too
04:22 sofar I'm more talking about a future survival game, post-0.416
04:25 benrob0329 I think that MTG should be forked and striped down, and have a minimalistic subgame be added as the new minimal
04:25 sofar well so far no dev decision has been made on the topic
04:26 benrob0329 But also add subgame dependencies, so that for eg mtg would inherent from minimal
04:26 benrob0329 And others could be based off mtg
04:26 sofar I don't think we want to inherit at all
04:27 benrob0329 but wouldn't that require double the work for mapgen changes?
04:27 sofar it's far easier to write proper unit mods and just copy them
04:27 sofar mapgen? pffft, we have paramapgem
04:27 sofar mapgen? pffft, we have paramapgen*
04:28 sofar mapgen is mostly a discussion about biomes being lame
04:28 sofar plus everyone wants the kitchen sink biome
04:28 benrob0329 Mtg should be based off of the base game imo
04:28 sofar no
04:28 sofar inheritance is death
04:28 sofar stagnation
04:29 benrob0329 inheritance means consistency
04:29 sofar at the cost of never changing an iota
04:29 sofar great, you have consistency. 5 years later you manage to merge a controversial patch
04:30 benrob0329 then mtg needs to be suitable for servers
04:30 benrob0329 Or whatever this new subgame is
04:31 benrob0329 Because (at least some) servers will want all default bioms
04:31 paramat hehe
04:32 sofar benrob0329: are you worried? then contribute :)
04:32 sofar I'm not worried, duplicating the mapgen portions of mintest_game is like, 20 minutes work
04:32 paramat btw don't even think about minimal, that's something very different and very broken/out of date
04:32 sofar copy
04:32 sofar paste
04:33 sofar drink beer for 15 minutes
04:33 sofar git commit
04:34 paramat yes, copying and modifying mapgen registrations is easy
04:35 benrob0329 Perhaps a mapgen mod for them woukd make it even easier
04:35 sofar mv default/mapgen/lua mapgen/init.lua
04:36 benrob0329 add depends.txt, git commit
04:38 nore <benrob0329> But also add subgame dependencies, so that for eg mtg would inherent from minimal <-- please don't reiterate the mistake common mods was
04:47 sofar I'd like to see very tiny mods that handle just small bits
04:48 sofar like e.g. `emote` handles the player basics
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05:12 paramat ~tell nerzhul https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5562 could you fix?
05:12 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
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07:05 nerzhul pushing warning fix for fips_cipher_abort
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07:18 rdococ what is reflowscan.cpp's role in the water physics system?
07:20 rdococ is it the whole thing, or is there more?
07:20 rdococ I feel like there's more
07:22 rdococ additionally, what is a liquid column as the code refers to? I think I know but
07:22 rdococ ...
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07:25 rdococ h
07:25 rdococ hi
07:26 rdococ what is reflowscan.cpp's role in the water physics system?
07:26 rdococ ...nvm
07:28 paramat this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/9714cdcf4ba51b44cca72e133ec5ef2a3c9f50f6
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07:30 rdococ ah
07:31 rdococ ty
07:32 rdococ by chance, do you know the file that controls the removal of the water?
07:34 paramat yeah
07:35 rdococ which file is it?
07:35 rdococ I've been looking in map.cpp
07:35 paramat looking
07:36 paramat map.cpp line640
07:37 paramat transformLiquids()
07:38 rdococ I was already looking there
07:40 rdococ but ty
07:46 paramat time to add saplings for bushes ..
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08:17 rdococ I can't seem to follow the code...
08:18 rdococ can you point me to the part that decreases flowing water's level when the source block is gone?
08:21 rdococ Take 3.
08:29 paramat hmm i'll look
08:29 paramat game#1698 WIP
08:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1698 -- Bushes: Add saplings and from-sapling schematics by paramat
08:32 paramat line 830
08:32 paramat in that code block
08:32 Krock ^ https://github.com/minetest/minet​est/blob/master/src/map.cpp#L830
08:34 Krock I was looking around L846 but totally overseen that comment :3
08:35 Krock rdococ, depending from where the water flows, it's calculated differently. In case it's the same level, see L848
08:36 celeron55 question to mtg developers: does minetest_game want to focus on singleplayer use? it kind of seems that an official subgame designed for servers could make sense in that case
08:36 paramat yes 845-848
08:38 rdococ hm.
08:38 paramat i don't intend mtg to focus on singleplayer use, i think it's more biased towards multiplayer
08:38 rdococ where does it spread the water to other blocks?
08:38 Krock celeron55, that's quite hard to say. it should be a base for both
08:38 rdococ wait
08:38 rdococ I'm already doing that
08:39 paramat rdococ other way around, the code is looking at the neighbours of a node to see water can 'spread' into it
08:39 rdococ ahh
08:39 Krock right, starting with L717
08:40 rdococ wait what
08:40 paramat max_node_level is the level of the flowing water made possible by surrounding water
08:40 rdococ hm
08:40 rdococ I kind of got that
08:40 rdococ ye
08:41 paramat sofar has ideas about new subgames designed for singleplayer (and i think is developing one)
08:42 celeron55 maybe not then
08:42 paramat game#1485
08:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1485 -- Split MTG into two games - one a game, the other a mod base
08:43 paramat i've seen server owners (Shara) asking for a simpler modding base for servers
08:44 paramat she says MTG is starting to get too messy for that use
08:44 celeron55 it seems that there's a lot of standard set-up required for servers that could be made less manual
08:44 Krock the more games there are to maintain the more time it will take to patch all games with the same bugfix
08:44 celeron55 that's really my concern
08:45 celeron55 a base could be a good solution
08:45 Krock site node: the name base_game would be available now
08:45 paramat a modding base also will not be too complex to maintain
08:46 Zeno` I don't think MTG should focus on singleplayer
08:46 Zeno` seems kind of strange to me for that to be the focus
08:47 Zeno` I think that sofar does think it's meant for singleplayer primarily though
08:47 Krock I quite like the idea of base & full features MTG
08:47 Zeno` (I could be wrong, that's just the impression I get)
08:48 paramat since mtg has been our only subgame it is certainly focussed on server use, multiplayer is seen as the priority although singleplayer is probably used more
08:48 celeron55 there needs to be way to use the official MT package as a singleplayer game, and a server game, without going through some sort of alchemy book of how to fight against its design
08:49 celeron55 a way*
08:50 Zeno` is singleplayer really used more?
08:50 Zeno` maybe I've lost touch with the userbase since I only speak to multiplayer users
08:51 celeron55 it's not a matter of which one is used more; both have to make sense
08:51 Zeno` yes, that's true
08:53 paramat well if you consider there are thousands of users, and only a few hundred are on servers, i think there must be more game-hours in singleplayer
08:53 rdococ that just sounds odd
08:57 rdococ ...
08:57 rdococ forget this
08:57 nerzhul Krock, can you finish the review on #5493 i finished it
08:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5493 -- Formspec: Add options to set background color and opacity (fullscreen mode) by nerzhul
08:57 nerzhul i improved the PR performance and make bgcolor tag overriding default
09:00 Krock well, now it's no longer the fullscreen color
09:01 Krock instead, just a default for all backgrounds
09:02 Krock but that should be good too, I think
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09:05 nerzhul oh seems you are right, i should support for both to enhance pr
09:06 Krock just change the setting names and the documentation and I'm fine with it :3
09:07 Krock but I don't think this was what kilbith wanted (to change the fullscreen bg color only)
09:07 Krock adding another color variable for fullscreen only isn't a thing
09:08 Krock ("isn't a thing" -> as in, no big work)
09:12 paramat personally i would be happy to maintain, with others, a new official modding base subgame
09:13 paramat minimalism is my thing :]
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09:14 Krock paramat, how about using the minimal development game then?
09:14 Krock I'm sure that's very minimalistic
09:16 Krock paramat, "A bush sapling grows into a tree at " seems legit ^^
09:16 red-002 it's also very outdated
09:17 red-002 it doesn't even have 3d players
09:17 Krock well yes, red-002. It's not supposed to contain any fancy stuff
09:17 DS-minetest (bandits were fancy)
09:17 Krock testing stuff doesn't depend on how the player looks like
09:18 paramat oops
09:18 red-002 yes but stuff like that would make it useless as a modding base
09:19 paramat i thought you were joking about minimal, it would have to be completely changed and i think some devs find it useful as it is
09:20 Krock paramat, actually I was joking about it ^^
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09:22 paramat lol
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09:26 paramat uh, forgot to make bush leaves drop saplings
09:28 Krock chance: 1/40  *trollface*
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10:04 paramat ok updated and tested, ready for review gmae#1698
10:05 paramat game#1698
10:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1698 -- Bushes: Add saplings by paramat
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11:22 twoelk I think mt-minimal should not be both a testbed and a modding base. It should concentrate on being a debugging tool and content to aid that purpose should be added and not any extra deco nodes
11:26 twoelk as for mtg I could imagine with all that new content it would be better if default was split into more mods such as plants, ores
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11:49 twoelk having more officially maintained server orientated content somewhere might indeed be a good idea. I would suggest to aim this along the needs of educational personal though as that should include most things server owners may need and would be a benificial target group as one of minetest's development directions
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12:35 paramat erm nope, we can't have education use as the priority, use in education is only a small part of MT usage, and is over-hyped
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12:52 kilbith so full of certitudes...
12:52 kilbith we use MT for educational purposes all around the world and there's a great demand/potential for it
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12:52 kilbith to compete with Minecraft EDU
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13:01 rubenwardy I like the idea of Minetest targeting education, in particular coding
13:01 rubenwardy but that doesn't mean that MTG should target that
13:02 kilbith I was reacting to "only a _small_ part of MT usage, and is _over-hyped_"
13:02 rubenwardy oh OK
13:27 paramat yeah, i agree, it's just not the priority
13:38 glut32 Hi all, I would like to know why unescape_string() function is used for image_path in GUIFormSpecMenu::parseBackground(...) and  GUIFormSpecMenu::parseImageButton(...). The problem is that this function remove all back slash in a string. And the image_path in windows contains several back slash
13:40 glut32 and it produces a bug for image loading
13:42 paramat and 'over hyped' is me being unreasonable :]
13:55 Thomas-S Bug report: Connected nodeboxes seem to be not fully rendered: Example screenshot (technic concrete fence): http://i.imgur.com/Z5Rg78j.png
14:01 Krock ah, wrong flipped nodeboxes
14:01 Krock with negative height/width/depth
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14:01 Krock Thomas-S, open an issue \o/
14:03 Thomas-S Krock, #5572
14:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5572 -- Connected nodeboxes seem to be not fullly rendered
14:15 Krock paramat, I don't know what you've seen from imgur but that one is a very reliable hoster
14:15 Krock ^ IMO
14:18 Krock merging #5547 in 10 mins
14:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5547 -- Item metadata compatibility by numberZero
14:34 paramat yes i agree, but it's always better to store at Github
14:34 paramat and easier
14:40 paramat i'll merge game#1695 game#1698 in an hour (and make a news post in the forum)
14:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1695 -- PB&J Pup: Remove mod by paramat
14:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1698 -- Bushes: Add saplings by paramat
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14:51 Krock whoops. time past too fast. merged now
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15:06 nerzhul sfan5, thanks for the review, i will answer and/or fix
15:18 nerzhul sfan5, do we need a space after a cast ? i prefer having it
15:18 sfan5 no idea
15:18 sfan5 does the style guide mention it?
15:19 nerzhul no mentioned on our wiki
15:19 nerzhul not*
15:19 nerzhul and not mentioned on linux kernel guildelines
15:20 Krock Thomas-S, is the issue solved now?
15:20 twoelk when mentioning server orientated content I meant that minetest lacks easy tools for non technic savy people and thought that teachers and the like would be a usefull target group when designing tools to aid in this area - such as monitoring a server from outside the game with a non frightening interface or the managing of player groups
15:22 twoelk this can all be done by extra mods and in depth things probably should but minetest should offer some more help out of the box here
15:25 nerzhul sfan5, i answered on #5559 please tell me what do you think about those comments, if you prefer to see a revert on some of commented files or not
15:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5559 -- Pass clang-format on various cpp/header files by nerzhul
15:25 * benrob0329 leaves this here... https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear
15:43 nerzhul sfan5, for the 0.4.16 you prefer me to add a manual migration using --migrate-players ?
15:43 sfan5 manual migration is always better
15:43 nerzhul i would use it for sqlite <-> pg but i can add file -> sqlite/pg and forbid sqlite/pg -> files
15:44 sfan5 why forbid sqlite -> files
15:44 nerzhul as we discussed, you, sofar and me, we statutate 0.4.16 is a transitional release for player files to database and on (0.4.16 + 1) we disable the file backend
15:45 sfan5 some people might find it useful, e.g. for comparing performance
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15:58 Zeno` what about leveldb?
15:58 Zeno` is it going to be abandoned?
16:00 sfan5 what no
16:00 sfan5 it's just not planned as a backed for storing players yet
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16:16 paramat will merge games 1695 1698 in a moment
16:17 nerzhul sfan5, migrating from player to relational doesn't remove files, it move it to a backup directory, your argument doesn't work :)
16:20 paramat merging ..
16:24 paramat complete
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16:50 twoelk is there a more recent mt-dev version than from march compiled for windows yet?
16:50 twoelk am having some issues with not seeing own chat
16:52 red-002 that might be the servers fault
16:53 red-002 mods can't check the protocol version of the client
16:54 Krock twoelk, master or any custom branch?
16:54 Krock can also apply patches into it if you wish :3
16:55 twoelk i thought i saw some chat prediction changes lately - can't remember where though
16:55 Krock that one was removed
16:55 sfan5 chat changes?
16:56 sfan5 what you are describing has not recently had any changes
16:56 twoelk a server where I don't see own chat is for example TPS Skylands
16:56 sfan5 client ver?
16:56 Krock https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/commit/2f56a00d9
16:57 twoelk yours and krocks latest as of march 30/31
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16:57 Krock does it only happen on multiplayer or also in SP?
16:58 sfan5 this is an issue with the mods they are using
16:58 twoelk hm, never chatted to myself - let me start mt :-D
16:58 sfan5 the modders expect an mt client before that commit
16:58 Krock right, callbacks of mods could affect this
17:01 twoelk no problem in singleplayer
17:01 twoelk interesting is that using /me works on that specific server as in I can see what I wrote
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17:03 Krock there must be some chat "enhancement" mod on the server that sends the message to everybody but you because chat prediction existed when it was written
17:07 twoelk non that I recognise
17:16 twoelk "xban2", "tps_teleport", "tps_sillyprivs", "tps_rule_enforcer", "tps_irc", "tps_irc_commands", "news", "names_per_ip", "bloc0415stable works indeed
17:16 twoelk ops
17:16 twoelk sorry for the artefacts
17:16 sfan5 you don't have to look into the json for the mods btw
17:17 twoelk easier to copy from there :-P
17:17 twoelk except if I missed some better trick
17:18 sfan5 i find that copying from the serverlist page is equally easy
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17:19 twoelk not if the list exceeds the monitor - it gets tricky then
17:20 sfan5 huh there's no problem here
17:20 twoelk wasn't supposed to appear in my reply anyways - was somehow left in memory
17:23 twoelk now that I try I can state that I can indeed  copy no popup list content at all  from the serverlist page
17:23 twoelk using ff on w10
17:25 Krock joined #minetest-dev
17:26 * twoelk seems to have crashed his firefox by trying to copy generated source html with some tool
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19:47 red-002 #5573
19:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5573 -- Network: Remove old opcodes and fix documentation. by red-001
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20:01 nerzhul red-002, i prefer using the deprecated handler it permits to track the opcodes for a little moment
20:02 nerzhul at least for 0.4.16
20:07 red-002 for all of them? or just the one that got removed only in protocol version 22?
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20:40 Shara Best we do it this way, as we will have a record that people involved agreed
20:41 Shara Wrong tab sorry :)
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21:04 nerzhul merging #5557
21:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5557 -- [CSM] Fix documentation localplayer by Dumbeldor
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22:58 red-004 #5577 not sure if thats the best way to calculate the average rtt
22:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5577 -- Add function and chatcommand to get ping to csm and fix RTT calculation. by red-001
22:59 red-004 but at least it works
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23:14 sofar try it on a server that you know the ping of
23:17 red-004 I tried it to see if it works, I'm just not sure if it's the most efficient way to do it
23:18 red-004 and if averaging the RTT is even useful

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