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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-04-10

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Time Nick Message
00:21 zorman2000 joined #minetest-dev
00:38 sofar merging #5057
00:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5057 -- Undersampling by numberZero
00:39 VanessaE \o/
00:51 sofar I'd love to see #5492 get merged as well
00:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5492 -- [CSM] Add local particles and particlespawners. by red-001
00:51 sofar but, needs more reviews
00:56 sofar !tell Krock: do you have time to rebase #5340?
00:56 ShadowBot sofar: O.K.
00:57 * VanessaE wonders where juhdanad disappeared to
01:00 VanessaE all right.
01:01 VanessaE we have colored itemstacks.  so, what do I need to do in UD to dapt?
01:01 VanessaE adapt*
01:05 VanessaE hm, I don't see an obvious way to /giveme foo:bar with a color specified..
01:05 VanessaE (not that that's something UD needs)
01:09 sofar depends on what you need or want to do
01:09 sofar does it need to be backwards compatible?
01:11 VanessaE well in the case of UD it'll be simple.  right now, dig splits a colored node into neutral + dye.  I'll make shift-dig do that, and unshifted-dig would dig the node straight into the inventory (as if UD weren't there)
01:12 VanessaE just curious if I have to do anything special for the dig-straight-to-inventory action
01:14 VanessaE meanwhile, I just discovered an interesting glitch:  `/giveme foo:bar 99 1`  prints,  "foo:bar 99 1 \"\\u001\\u002\\u003\"" added to inventory.
01:16 benrob0329 thats odd, how many does it give you?
01:16 VanessaE it gives me a stack of 99 as expected.
01:17 VanessaE (the 1 was just an attempt to guess at specifying a color index)
01:17 benrob0329 that'd make sense, tbh
01:19 VanessaE (actually if it were up to me, it would be foo:bar:color_index count e.g. coloredwood:wood_block:123 99  to get 99 of the item colored per entry 123 in the palette)
01:30 VanessaE sofar, spotted a bug.  if a node has a palette defined, the palette is applied whether paramtype2 is set to "color" or not
01:30 VanessaE I think (have not tried) that you can reproduce this by just installing UD and "blox" and observe that all default stone turns pinkish.
01:31 VanessaE yep, confirmed.
01:33 VanessaE (blox mod adds a few UD-specific node def items to default:stone but does NOT change its paramtype2)
01:35 VanessaE the same holds true for an item dug into the inventory
01:35 VanessaE its paramtype2 is ignored
01:37 VanessaE minetest.override_item("default:stone", {
01:37 VanessaE palette = "unifieddyes_palette_extended.png",
01:37 VanessaE })
01:44 VanessaE yep, that's all it takes.  add ^^^^ that anywhere, and put the named palette somewhere MT will find it.
01:44 VanessaE all stone will turn pinkish.
01:45 VanessaE the wield and inventory appearance is fine though
01:48 VanessaE you don't need UD or blox or anything else, just specify a palette image.
02:24 VanessaE my best guess is this change, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/58d83a7bb2f992194c3df304b1dcbb81f98f78c0​#diff-f44f50a96d13d2421bd5301b7511ee26R111
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03:55 sofar VanessaE: issue number?
03:56 VanessaE I attached my comments to the the 'colored itemstacks' PR.
03:56 sofar the PR is merged, so it should be a new issue
03:57 VanessaE ok.
03:59 sofar it's just easier to track that way (a lot)
03:59 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5555
03:59 sofar tbh it's kind of weird to have a palette defined for a node that doesn't use it
03:59 sofar but, sure, it should just be a simple extra check
04:00 VanessaE I tried digging through the code and...well... cross-eyed :-/
04:03 sofar wait, are you saying the placed *nodes* are being colored?
04:04 VanessaE I'm saying that any node including mapgen'd ones are.
04:04 sofar in the inventory or as a placed node on the map?
04:04 sofar screenshot?
04:04 VanessaE just in the map/world
04:04 VanessaE moment.
04:04 sofar AHA
04:04 sofar so, remove 58d83a7bb2f992194c3df304b1dcbb81f98f78c0 from your local tree
04:04 sofar try again
04:04 sofar my bet is that it's an older bug
04:05 VanessaE er
04:05 sofar well actually
04:05 sofar maybe not
04:05 VanessaE oh yeah, I did that already
04:05 VanessaE it's definite 58d8...
04:05 VanessaE definitely.
04:06 VanessaE still want the screenshot?
04:06 VanessaE (need to pull back to HEAD and rebuild)
04:06 sofar screenshot is always good
04:06 VanessaE ok, gimme a few mins
04:10 VanessaE http://i.imgur.com/6sI1QAH.png
04:10 VanessaE ninja'd :)
04:11 sofar np
04:11 VanessaE the pink is default:stone, the two ores are...idk what, something provided by glooptest I think.  wield is default:stone also.
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06:03 nerzhul hello guys, nice works this weekend :)
06:03 nerzhul i will just repair master build which was broken (LINT) when merging localplayer CSM api
06:04 nerzhul passing clang-format on wieldmesh.h & l_localplayer.{cpp,h}
06:06 VanessaE morning, nerzhul
06:11 nerzhul hi VanessaE
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06:19 nerzhul arf, > 170 PR opened, another time :p
06:22 VanessaE chicken ;)
06:23 nerzhul can someone review #5553
06:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5553 -- [CSM] Use more gettext by red-001
06:26 sofar nerzhul: you should consider moving the wielded item method into localplayer
06:26 sofar as well as adding inventory methods
06:26 nerzhul i should go to work, we can discuss about this in ~30min
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07:06 nrzkt hi, sfan5 i'm looking for your comments to see how can i update the rules according to this
07:09 nrzkt and also it seems non C++11 enabled compilers doesn't like the syntax std:vector<T<Y>> and prefer std::vector<T<Y> >
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07:17 nrzkt pushing a commit to fix the T<Y<S>> to T<Y<S> > in clang-format + disable function inlining in .cpp files + disable LINT errors on l_locaplayer.cpp fixing the code style to better reading + disable include sorting
07:21 sfan5 hm
07:22 sfan5 what about the case where it "inlined" the contents of LuaLocalPlayer::methods[] ?
07:24 nrzkt atm i don't know how to fix it, then i added the cpp file to whitelist
07:24 nrzkt i run clang-format on file and restore the wrong code style on struct, i don't know how can clang-format know this specific readable code style
07:27 nrzkt our header files should be fine if we clang format all but not some cppfiles, especially Lua. Also for some cppfiles we should define which syntax we prefer for classmember defaults (Class() : A(a), B(B)... or Class() :
07:27 nrzkt A(a),
07:27 nrzkt B(b),
07:27 nrzkt unconditionaly
07:28 nrzkt maybe it could be good to discuss about this point on ShadowNinja point (good idea to discuss together
07:28 sfan5 can't it allow both?
07:31 nrzkt i don't know if we can tell him, let the code style sometimes if it's readable, it's a formating tool
07:38 nrzkt very very strange
07:38 nrzkt oh it's normal
07:38 nrzkt i should fix https://travis-ci.org/minet​est/minetest/jobs/220452970 too, we don't build android in travis then this issue was not shown
07:39 nrzkt pushing it now, okay sfan5?
07:39 sfan5 a fix for the travis error you linked? yes thats okay
07:39 nrzkt nice
07:40 nrzkt it's now fixed, we have better clang-format rules now, tuning takes some time to do :)
07:48 nerzhul i don't know if it's possible but i hope i can make 50% of our headers outside of whitelist before release, checked by clang-format (headers are easier for clang-format than cpp files), review code style instead of features is not very interesting we should reduce the time lost to review code style (and end users can rule clang-format -i <file> to fix it directly)
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15:36 red-001 could someone review #5550?
15:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5550 -- [CSM] Move `.list_players` and `.disconnect` to builtin. by red-001
15:39 rubenwardy I'd rather wait longer for CSM to be more stable before making things like that official
15:40 rubenwardy But I am neutral overall
15:40 rubenwardy it's quite short code
15:40 Krock "/list_players" looks good but disconnecting over chat?
15:42 Krock for those who are too lazy to his ESC + pressing "main menu"
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16:07 paramat nerzhul nore rubenwardy Zeno` Krock could we merge #5527 ? provides in new code 2 sneak features much wanted
16:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5527 -- Sneak glitch: Detect ledge for 2-node climb-up by paramat
16:09 Krock the jump height also depends on physics_override_gravity
16:10 Krock lol, in my code it's the same check for ledge and sneak ladder :3
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16:13 Krock nvm, gravity does not change anything there
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16:16 Krock it does not change the jump speed itself but instead the player height changes. this here may work with the default settings (gravity & overwrite factor) but would break on higher gravity (if anyone would want to use a higher one)
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16:18 Krock thinking too far again. 1-row sneak ladders only existed because the gravity was "low" enough
16:18 Krock LGTM
16:38 paramat thanks
16:40 paramat taking into account custom gravity and jump strength could be done later but might be difficult and take some time
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17:06 paramat #5545 has 3 -1s shall i close?
17:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5545 -- Add object:kill() by zaoqi
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18:02 sofar how do I unregister a globalstep function?
18:02 sfan5 your don't
18:02 sofar I really really want to :)
18:02 sfan5 lemme take a look
18:03 Krock minetest.registered_on_globalsteps[index] = nil
18:03 sofar well yes, but, what is "index" ?
18:03 Krock nobody knows. there's no identifier
18:03 sofar if I pass the function, it doesn't seem to work
18:03 sofar working with a local function too
18:04 sofar local foo = function()
18:04 sofar end
18:04 sfan5 the index is a number
18:04 sofar minetest.register_globalstep(foo)
18:04 sofar hmmm
18:04 Krock the index is the number of entries that the table has after this new one was added
18:04 sfan5 so you'll have to do for k,v in ipairs(core.registered_globalsteps) do if v == your_function then table.remove(core.registered_globalsteps, k) end end
18:05 sofar yeah, that's doable
18:05 Krock ^
18:05 sofar lemme try
18:08 sofar table.remove or core.registered_globalsteps[k] = nil ?
18:09 nore sofar: table.remove
18:09 nore if it correctly translates
18:09 nore because else #core.registered_globalsteps will be incorrect
18:09 nore and ipairs as well
18:10 sofar ok, ty
18:11 sofar kek, game crashes, lol
18:11 sofar 2017-04-10 11:10:50: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: Runtime error from mod 'fire' in callback environment_Step(): .../ahkok/git/minetest/bin/../​builtin/game/register.lua:412: attempt to call field '?' (a nil value)
18:11 sofar ignore the "fire" mod, it's probably bogus
18:12 sfan5 the code doesn't account for holes in the table
18:13 nore exactly
18:13 sfan5 you'll have to move the values after it
18:13 nore or, if order is less important, you can just move the last one
18:13 sofar yup
18:13 sofar globalstep, so, totes unimportant
18:14 nore oh, and I'm wondering whether there's a local variable in builtin holding the current index
18:14 nore you should check that
18:14 nore ehm, I'm not sure the order of globalstep is unimportant
18:14 sofar yeah, this gets called in itself through a globalstep :)
18:14 nore moving the values after it should be safer
18:14 nore (and *what* are you trying to do?)
18:15 sfan5 hm i smell a "last run mod" circumvention here
18:15 sofar haha, let me post my code so you can see
18:18 * nore is fearing the worst
18:19 sofar https://gist.github.com/sofar/3​2bf4525a0060e6be0f7c82cf154074e
18:19 sofar it's actually pretty neat if we can get the removal working
18:20 sofar the idea is simple
18:20 sofar it's a timer class
18:20 sfan5 alternatively you could fill the hole with function() end
18:20 sofar I'd like to support stopping and starting timers, and saving them to modstorage
18:20 sfan5 but technically that's a memleak
18:20 nore uh
18:20 sofar iow let the mod handle storing/retrieving
18:21 nore the correct way to do this is to make a globalstep handle all the timers
18:21 nore and do that with a for ... in pairs(other table)
18:21 nore and that's a lot easier :)
18:21 sofar hmm yes, but it's another table with timers
18:21 sofar we already have one
18:21 sofar and I'd still have the hole problem?
18:21 nore no
18:21 sofar ahh no, that's gone then
18:22 nore because you'd use pairs :)
18:22 sofar but but
18:22 sofar I'd always have one globalstep running
18:22 sofar even if no timers exist
18:22 nore a globalstep doing nothing doesn't cost much
18:22 nore like, nothing at all
18:22 sofar true, but I was attempting to avoid it irregardless
18:22 sofar I'll think about it a bit
18:23 sofar I should get some lunch anyway first
18:23 nore you really want to optimize 20ns or so in a loop running at most 20 times per second?
18:24 sofar I like idle
18:24 * sofar hugs idle
18:30 sofar or, I take 5 minutes and make it work
18:30 sofar https://gist.github.com/sofar/3​2bf4525a0060e6be0f7c82cf154074e
18:31 sofar can now start/stop/star timers
18:31 sofar need to come up with a nice boilerplate save/load function and then I can publish this as a useful timer class mod
18:33 Krock copypasta into builtin to satisfy Wuzzy
18:33 sofar Krock: totes, yes
18:33 sofar Krock: but would be nice to debug a bit and see if it needs more features
18:33 Krock huh
18:33 sofar e.g. wuzzy requested a way to get elapsed time
18:34 Krock oh well, isn't that just another function? shouldn't be a thing to add afterwards if there are requests
18:34 sofar and making mods handle save/restoring would gracefully handle mods going away as well as mods changing function names
18:35 sofar yes, we can throw it in builtin, but, I haven't actually *tested* it other then start/stop :)
18:35 sofar and I like making things a mod for a bit to prove its usefullness
18:35 sofar especially for something as building-block like as this
18:36 sofar anyway, lunch, bbl
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18:40 sapier Hello, I've received a mail from some guy from buildpiper.com who requests support in increasing performance of minetest on a raspberry pi 3. Did anyone else get that mail too?
18:40 Krock *checks*
18:41 Krock either deleted long time ago or not received
18:42 Krock but there seems to be the chance to get by 70% reduced hostinger plans
18:42 sapier Increasing performance is always good and that guy seems to have some expertise so maybe it's a chance for joining efforts. At least if someone is interested
18:43 Krock sounds good but an issue describing the way how it should work or a PR would be more helpful
18:44 Krock in case it's a core problem and not a system tweak guide
18:44 sapier Well those guys do replace minecraft by minetest thus I guess a little bit pr for minetest should be possible
18:45 sapier according to their own checks they have already pinpointed some hotspot functions
18:45 sapier mapblock_mesh:updateAllFastFaceRows for example uses 40% of their cpu time
18:46 rubenwardy I got that email
18:46 rubenwardy Gregory Guterman
18:47 sapier yes
18:47 rubenwardy optimisation isn't really my thing though :P
18:47 sfan5 i have also received that mailo
18:47 sfan5 s/o//
18:47 sapier Well I'd consider it an interesting task but I'm out of time so no chance for me to support
18:48 nore I guess I'll probably have received it as well, can't check right now but I think it is worth looking into
18:48 sapier I guess he did adress every core developer
18:48 nore especially if as they seem to say there is a huge bottleneck somewhere
18:48 sapier 40% cpu time in a single function is a quite strong evidence yes
18:49 sapier unless it's main loop of course ;-)
18:49 nore (heh, and the function's name includes "Fast", lol)
18:49 rubenwardy the old one was 43%
18:49 sapier yes noone can tell god/fate/whatever you call it doesn't have a sense of humor ;)
18:51 sapier well 3% is 3% :)
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18:58 Krock didn't we recently already have an update there?
18:59 nore Krock: we did, but it was only a simple bugfix that improved the performance of rendering
18:59 nore (well, that reduced the number of tris anyway)
19:03 nerzhul can someone review #5553 please ?
19:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5553 -- [CSM] Use more gettext by red-001
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19:08 nerzhul sapier, welcome back, related to https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=7&amp;t=17180 no ?
19:09 sapier nerzhul: yes looks like the location that guy mentioned
19:09 paramat i might merge #5527 later, in case anyone wants to comment
19:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5527 -- Sneak glitch: Detect ledge for 2-node climb-up by paramat
19:09 sapier to be honest looks like those two guys are connecte
19:09 sapier d
19:10 rubenwardy same day too
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19:13 nerzhul merging #5550
19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5550 -- [CSM] Move `.list_players` and `.disconnect` to builtin. by red-001
19:13 Krock #5553 can be merged soon too
19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5553 -- [CSM] Use more gettext by red-001
19:13 nerzhul Krock, i'm doing it then
19:14 sapier I'm gonna pinpoint that guy from the mail to the irc development channel and tell hin that his topic got known to the community but I cannot tell him when it's gonna be adressed
19:14 nerzhul thanks red-001 for your massive involvement on CSM
19:14 nerzhul i think you developped ~60% of the CSM features :p
19:15 Krock but already the first garbage appeared in it. minetest.localplayer.got_teleported() is a function that returns "true" for less than 10ms
19:15 Krock and that only after being teleported
19:16 nerzhul Krock, you only have it on one loop before reseting flag i think
19:16 Krock it's used to block sneaking from .. sneaking for exactly one iteration, which is nonsense
19:21 nerzhul red-001, can you rebase #5499 please ?
19:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5499 -- [CSM] Add `on_joinplayer` and `on_leaveplayer` callbacks. by red-001
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19:40 paramat game#1693 nore rubenwardy sfan5 sofar Krock
19:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1693 -- Disable fire by default on servers by Ezhh
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19:54 paramat please can anyone test to settle this issue https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/5438#issuecomment-290906127 is fixed for me but not for tenplus1, but i expect he was using an old build
19:56 paramat ^ Krock ?
19:58 paramat fixed in master with 'sneak glitch' as default (true)
20:00 Krock ugh.. so much text to read the actual problem
20:00 Krock is it now about walking on ledges or the slab bug?
20:01 paramat whether it is possible to sneak across several nodes along one of those 1-node-high ledges
20:01 paramat works for me in latest
20:01 Krock checking
20:03 Krock walking along: ok. walking around the edge: impossible
20:07 paramat yes thanks, i get stuck at the corners
20:08 paramat but along works
20:08 nerzhul Krock, if you get some time or sfan5 can you look at #5559 please, thanks
20:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5559 -- Pass clang-format on various header files by nerzhul
20:09 Krock Also tested that with my sneak version - walking around like it was possible with the old sneak code, works.
20:10 Krock nerzhul, since when are two tabs for additional lines in function arguments enforced?
20:10 Krock one-tab is also compatible with our current code style guidelines
20:11 Krock lolwhat: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5559/​files#diff-1d27d1f78f1d6a5ddb1c892e48b3105bR42
20:12 nerzhul as i said some headers are not necessary to merge i can remove it from subset, for the diff you show we should choose which strategy i should apply to clang-format
20:12 nerzhul i can remove chat.h from the subset, it was questionable. For the two tabs it's mandatory to have same subset everywhere in clang-format
20:12 nerzhul it's "ContinuationIndentWidth: 16"
20:13 nerzhul s/subset/config/g
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20:25 sofar If -hub is going to be a flame war from server owners I'm staying out of it
20:26 Krock flame war about fire. *ta-tjing*
20:27 Shara sofar: No flame war from me. I prefer to disagree politely. Not even sure why this led to argument.
20:28 sofar we're never gonna get anywhere if people don't start contributing
20:29 sofar and, I'm spending my time working towards the goal that I've had for a long time: to make some really good single/lan play game
20:29 sofar so, all this bickering by people who are more than capable of making a fantastic wiki page documenting what it takes to make a good server
20:30 sofar it just oil on the fire that burns to destroy any goodwill I have towards people who are more than capable
20:30 sofar so, time to step out of the fire for me
20:30 kilbith talk is cheap.  show me the code.
20:30 sofar it's like people like sorcerykid. "I want this change" - "drops modified lua file screaming take my patch"
20:30 Shara sofar: reaction here made me wish I had 'not' tried to contribute.
20:31 Shara Please note I did speak with a dev before even starting to look at the code.
20:31 Krock kilbith, here, the code :PP  https://github.com/minetest/m​inetest_game/pull/1693/files
20:31 sofar Shara: I get that, you actually wrote a patch
20:32 sofar but I'm not even looking and I can find it breaks peoples games
20:32 sofar no hard feelings though
20:32 Shara I just wanted to understand how. permanent flame still works fine.
20:32 Krock breaking is when they depend on it
20:32 Krock do they depend on destructive flames?
20:33 Shara I don't understand how something can depend on destructive flames that burn out anyway.
20:34 Krock sorry, going to move this to -hub
20:35 Shara Krock: sure, just no one there seems able to answer this.
20:37 sofar it doesn't matter, you broke something they had before
20:38 Shara I don't think it's wrong of me to want to understand what, but okay.
20:39 sofar the answer is: the player depends on being able to burn down something
20:39 sofar it was possible, now it isn't
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20:41 sofar but the attitude that we can just break little kids' games, seriously
20:41 Krock sadly you can't burn cobble houses :<
20:41 sofar that has to stop
20:42 sofar if you run a server on the wide open internet, you're not a kiddo anymore
20:42 sofar you obviously know what a firewall it already, for instance
20:49 sofar I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but the fact is nobody appears to consider the impact of changes to all the little kids in the world, yet we've got maybe a dozen server operators havily involved and breathing loudly. And then there's the forums that are swamped with people who are obviously way too active on social media.
20:50 sofar if I don't represent them, then who does?
20:50 sfan5 can someone give me a tl;dr on what happened
20:51 Krock sfan5, fire_enabled = minetest.is_singleplayer()   END
20:51 sfan5 that's retarded
20:51 sfan5 is in mtg?
20:51 sfan5 +that
20:51 Krock yesh. I hope it was TL;DR enough
20:51 benrob0329 Everyone fought over what the drfault fire settings should be
20:51 sofar good summary
20:51 sfan5 who the fuck merged that shit
20:51 sofar nobody, I pushed back
20:52 sfan5 oh
20:52 nore on -hub my suggestion made a consensus that would cause no problems for both server owners & LAN games
20:53 nore which is, I repeat: if this is a multiplyaer game, the first time a player with server privs joins, ask them whether they want to disable these "dangerous" behaviours or not
20:53 Shara Hmm, I'm a retard for making a PR that TWO devs looked at and liked first?
20:53 Shara And you all wonder why people don't contribute enough...
20:53 Shara I don't mind if you don't want the PR.
20:53 sfan5 you're twisting my words
20:53 nore sfan5: *however*, tnt has been like that for a long time
20:54 sfan5 nore: that's pretty unintutive
20:54 benrob0329 Shara: sadly, this is true
20:54 sfan5 nore: tnt is arguably more destructive
20:54 nore sfan5: nope
20:54 nore fire is far worse
20:54 benrob0329 At this point, tnt is mostly contained
20:54 sfan5 also MC has both enabled by default in multiplayer and they're doing fine
20:54 sofar most you can do with TNT is a hole of ~30 size
20:55 sofar fire? could burn for miles
20:55 sfan5 because most servers admins install mods (aka plugins) to limit those
20:55 benrob0329 MC has properly optimized fire
20:55 sfan5 benrob0329: how does that matter?
20:55 sfan5 i don't really like different single vs multiplayer behaviour
20:55 benrob0329 Its far easier to contain if you can actually move
20:55 sfan5 if someone sets up a server why should it suddenly turn into a sandbox by default
20:56 rubenwardy The best fix for this is a wiki page which teaches how to set up a server, and how to secure it
20:56 paramat sfan5 fire is far more dangerous than tnt, but if you want to remove the tnt multiplayer thing i can understand that
20:56 sfan5 rubenwardy: yes
20:56 rubenwardy and also for all existing guides to have a link edited into the topic to that wiki page
20:56 benrob0329 Currently a large fire will crash even a good server
20:56 benrob0329 And at that point the world is lost
20:57 Shara There has to be something to let the person know to read the wiki page to begin with.
20:57 benrob0329 A help button?
20:57 paramat the PR was only done for consistency with tnt, that's hardly 'retarded shit'
20:57 Shara Then wiki pages that are actually clear, concise and up to date
20:57 rubenwardy !g minetest host a server
20:57 ShadowBot rubenwardy: Server list - Minetest - The server list is also available at servers.minetest.net ... server_announce = true server_name = My server server_description = A server that I made. server_url ... </l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fw​ww.minetest.net%2Fservers%2F>, Setting up a server - Minetest Wiki - Setting up a Server . Start your server on your desired port Note: It is recommended to (5 more messages)
20:57 rubenwardy http://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server
20:57 sfan5 when the first person joins the server tell them that they might wanna look here ^
20:58 Shara rubenwardy: Yes, but how does someone who has just downloaded the game know to do that and find it?
20:58 rubenwardy how do they know how to start a server without googling that?
20:58 rubenwardy yes, they can use the server tab - but they'd need to port forward first
20:58 benrob0329 Or add a ? Button to the main menu, giving resource links when pushed
20:58 Krock Tab "server" -> Create -> Play
20:58 Shara It's not all that complicated (I managed it - should say something really...)
20:58 rubenwardy and doing that requires reading the link
20:59 benrob0329 Heck, display said help menu on first open
20:59 benrob0329 And point to it on first close (people who close all menus instantly
21:00 Shara There is no need to read wiki to start a server. I never did. I only had a clue what I was doing because I made mine private for a couple of months and learned by inviting people in to show me things.
21:01 Shara But anyway.... I tried to contribute; I am sorry it just generated some kind of argument.
21:01 benrob0329 If someone contributing causes a flame war, there is a problem.
21:02 nore okay, so what is the problem with just giving a wiki link when starting a multiplayer server?
21:04 Shara nore: I feel like I've seen a PR somewhere (or a discussion anyway) when the idea of the game having links to anything on wiki got a big no.
21:04 Shara Might be mistaken though.
21:04 nore Shara: the game having links and an help page to setup the server are different things though
21:05 paramat at least be consistent and change the tnt mod so we know what the mtg approach should be, the PR was done for consistency with tnt and i helped with it and encouraged it, so you can blame me, not the author
21:05 rubenwardy http://wiki.minetest.net/Setti​ng_up_a_server#Protect_server
21:07 nore note that mtg does not provide a protection mod by default anyway
21:07 paramat being aggressive towards an author for submitting a PR that is consistent with mtg is not reasonable
21:07 benrob0329 Perhaps it should add some kind of protection
21:08 benrob0329 Even just border stones/stakes
21:08 Shara benrob0329: Issue there is different people want different kinds. You'd probably get this argument *10 at least.
21:09 benrob0329 **10 id say, stuff like that can't be decided upon apparently
21:09 sofar game#1694, I suck
21:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1694 -- TNT: do not change behavior based on `singleplayer` gameplay. by sofar
21:09 nore what I mean is: since mtg does not provide protection, I can't see why having a single setting for tnt & fire would be too complicated for server owners
21:09 nore they need to install a *protection mod*
21:10 nore also, there is the wiki page we can give a reference too when creating a new server
21:10 Shara Feels like an option for first time starting server could be a nice answer...
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21:13 sofar tbh, an sfinv tab with MP options would be good
21:13 sofar with "you must restart your server for these changes to take effect" yada yada
21:14 nore seems good to me
21:14 benrob0329 that'd be akin to Gmod, so it.wouldnt be out of place
21:14 nore do you want to code it, or should I do that tonight?
21:15 benrob0329 If settings are easy to get to, both tnt and fire spread could be diabled/enabled by default
21:16 sofar nore: unsure how I'll feel after work ;)
21:16 nore okay, tell me then, I have a few other bug fixes/feature requests on pipeworks to code as well ;)
21:16 sofar but, should really switch to using modstorage :D
21:17 nore yep
21:17 nerzhul nore, which case needs mod storage in pipeworks ?
21:17 nore if there's an ingame setting no reason to use text file
21:17 * benrob0329 mentions particles for itens in pipes
21:17 nore nerzhul: what do you mean?
21:18 nerzhul you talked about pipeworks and sofar tell you to use mod storage :p
21:18 benrob0329 Is mod storage per world?
21:19 nore well, pipeworks serialises a lot of things in text files :/
21:19 nore like the position of items
21:19 nore anyway, I should get back to work now
21:20 nerzhul benrob0329, yes it use world_dir
21:35 lisac #5561
21:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5561 -- [CSM] No option to send a chat message
21:38 nerzhul lisac, did you read client_lua_api.md ? if there is nothing it's normal :)
21:39 lisac lol, I did read it.
21:39 lisac And ctrl+F a few times.
21:39 lisac Is it not complete? :D
21:40 red-001 it should be
21:40 red-001 at least the method list
21:41 red-001 there is some disagreement over whatever mods should be able to send chat messages
21:41 red-001 thats why it hasn't been added yet
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22:05 red-001 could someone remove the rebase needed tag from #5492?
22:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5492 -- [CSM] Add local particles and particlespawners. by red-001
22:08 nore red-001: done
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22:50 cheapie Has there been any progress made on the "mod storage" CSM feature? It seems like everyone abruptly stopped talking about it.
22:51 red-001 it got added
22:51 cheapie Oh, where are the docs, then?
22:51 red-001 is it not in the csm doc?
22:51 cheapie I don't see it, and neither does grep.
22:51 cheapie (looking at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetes​t/minetest/master/doc/client_lua_api.md)
22:52 red-001 huh
22:53 sofar cheapie: `sethome` uses it
22:53 red-001 I think it's the same as the server-sided version right now
22:53 nore sofar: CSM
22:53 sofar cheapie: check that code for details and exampl
22:54 sofar nore: yes csm uses it but no example code
22:54 cheapie sofar: I see it in the server-side docs, does it work the same way in CSM?
22:54 nore ah yeah
22:54 red-001 sofar some mods use it
22:54 nore strange it's not in the doc, should be added
22:54 sofar cheapie: yah, it's exactly the same
22:54 cheapie OK, I'll give it a try. Thanks!
22:54 sofar red-001: I like pointing to examples in mintest_game :)
22:55 sofar they are after all, maintained
23:01 cheapie Still no way to get the local player's name?
23:02 sofar I thought I merged it?
23:03 sofar localplayer:get_name()
23:03 sofar note the localplayer handle is difficult to obtain
23:04 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob​/master/doc/client_lua_api.md#localplayer
23:04 cheapie get_name() worked. You may want to document that...
23:04 sofar oh, it's missing
23:04 sofar red-001: docs for localplayer:get_name() :)
23:04 cheapie I'm seeing a common theme with client_lua_api.md :P
23:04 sofar tbh I wonder if we should have called it lp:get_player_name()
23:06 red-001 yeah the localplayer doc seems to be unfinnished
23:09 red-001 sofar, cheapie maybe comment any issues with the localplayer docs on #5557?
23:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5557 -- [CSM] Fix documentation localplayer by Dumbeldor
23:09 cheapie red-001: That's the only issue I've found so far, and likely the only one I'll find as that's the only part I find useful.
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23:55 cheapie I don't know if this is something else missing from the docs or if I'm doing it wrong, but shouldn't checkboxes be sent with the rest of the fields?

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