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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-03-13

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Time Nick Message
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00:28 celeron55 we're in big trouble; i've just gotten an email
00:28 celeron55 ---
00:28 celeron55 minetest is not open source.
00:28 celeron55 http://searchenterpriselinux.tech​target.com/definition/open-source
00:28 celeron55 go to this website to learn what open source means. If it was open source, i would be able to read 100% of the code of every individual file and.class etc of minetest. however, we cant, so it is not open source, itwould be partically open or "semi-open".
00:28 celeron55 ---
00:29 celeron55 i don't know what kind of drugs this one is on but surely something
01:11 sofar celeron55: send him the address of the FSF, I'm sure they'll help him sue us
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06:22 sofar I'd really like the sneak PR to get merged
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06:55 VanessaE oh great
06:55 VanessaE 2017-03-13 07:55:18: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: OOM error from mod 'mesecons' in callback environment_Step(): not enough memory
06:55 VanessaE 2017-03-13 07:55:18: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 972 MB
06:56 VanessaE just started today
06:56 VanessaE fixer jinxed me :P
07:07 nerzhul merging #5368
07:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5368 -- GUI: Allow texture packs to customize the progress bar by kilbith
07:48 VanessaE tried Fixer's idea to grab luajit 2.1 and enable GC64.  that got the affected server going again.
08:11 VanessaE for the record, clone luajit, switch to remote branch "v2.1", open src/Makefile and uncomment "XCFLAGS+= -DLUAJIT_ENABLE_GC64"  (line 114 at the moment).  save, compile, then recompile minetest against it.
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11:02 paramat closed game#1594
11:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1594 -- Add shape_type and base_material attributes to the shaped items definition by bell07
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11:51 nrzkt coredevs, i rebased a last time CSM branch (#5088), please add your approvals on the PR (using GH approvals if possible) for merging this branch to master this week. and look at my last comment
11:52 nrzkt #5088
11:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
11:52 nrzkt seems ShadowBot doesn't recognize previous syntax ShadowNinja
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13:52 Fixer celeron55: phishing email?
14:06 VanessaE what's the cause of this?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24170793/
14:07 paramat #5386
14:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5386 -- Get biome list: Downgrade missing biome message to infostream by paramat
14:07 VanessaE Fixer: I finally had to build luajit with GC64 enabled.  started getting OOM crashes last night
14:07 Fixer VanessaE: hah
14:07 Fixer i reverted to 2.1.0-beta
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14:07 Fixer since i had lua related crashes
14:08 VanessaE Fixer: weird.  the above error happened before the update, just fyi
14:08 Fixer VanessaE: it is not lua oom
14:09 Thomas-S paramat, can you maybe review game#1580? It is actually quite a trivial change. Thanks in advance!
14:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1580 -- Change doors to default.can_interact_with_node() by Thomas--S
14:10 paramat core.node.dig on an unknown node?
14:11 paramat the code allows for nil 'def' in some parts of the code and not others
14:11 VanessaE paramat: I have no idea.  the last thing that was dug was a routine mesecons lightstone, which are very much defined.
14:11 paramat (but not others)
14:11 VanessaE could be a nodebreaker somewhere doing the digging, those have a nil player def I think
14:12 glut32 Hi all, I have a question: witch version of irrlicht do you use in travis?
14:13 glut32 (sorry to break the discution)
14:13 est31 glut32: I think its the one in ubuntu precise
14:13 est31 which is 1.7.2
14:14 VanessaE hm, no, this ain't about the player def...
14:15 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2530
14:15 paramat indeed the 'def' is a nodedef
14:16 VanessaE note the "error from mod '' " though... empty string
14:18 paramat i have almost reviewed game 1580, and would like to to help out, but am v.busy with higher priorities
14:19 VanessaE mmmh
14:20 glut32 est31 : thanks :)
14:25 VanessaE no offense, paramat, but the engine failing to accurately report a crash ought to be far higher priority than 1580, but I wasn't really expecting you to drop what you're doing and look (you're not the only dev here :) )
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14:50 Fixer third kind of jitter? https://i.imgur.com/mphF6v0.png
14:50 VanessaE and will someone please fix this crap?
14:50 VanessaE 2017-03-13 15:50:11: WARNING[Server]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id = 64828 statically but block (49,1,41) already contains 1683 objects. Forcing delete.
14:51 nrzkt just fix the mod which spawn many tings
14:51 VanessaE Fixer: that's more likely routine, large mapblock updates, like a mesecons circuit or something
14:51 Fixer VanessaE: no thats clear world on newest minetest with sleep at 10 ms
14:52 VanessaE nrzkt: my block limit is 500, and we've already wrung out everything that produces entities on the server in question.
14:52 nrzkt seems it's not the case
14:52 VanessaE Fixer: oh ok.  no idea then, unless it's blocks being loaded.
14:52 VanessaE nrzkt: been there, done that.  this is the engine either creating new entities out of nothing, or failing to return valid results to things like "get objects in radius" and has persisted for years now
14:53 nrzkt if i remember we have in master a check to prevent that, no ?
14:53 VanessaE evidently not.
14:54 VanessaE again, my configured objects per block limit is 500.  no matter what my mods do, the engine should never exceed that (let alone continue to increase once it does)
15:02 Fixer holy shit kind of jitter on default: https://i.imgur.com/ucuXylg.png
15:02 Fixer 135ms
15:02 Fixer i seen 200ms once
15:03 Fixer in forests
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15:34 paramat VanessaE i agree about the priority, but i did look at your bug, i traced the error in the pastebin through, linked to lua_api and mentioned what may be the cause
15:43 red-001 nrzkt, I think that the way in which you added the setting for disabling csm might have broken death/respawn screen
15:46 red-001 maybe disable loading mods other then builtin instead of disabling all of csm?
15:49 nrzkt red-001: it was what i think
15:49 nrzkt can you add this comment on the GH topic ?
15:49 red-001 sure
15:49 nrzkt i think about this screen but forgot this
15:49 nrzkt i think we can keep the builtin part because it's very trivial think, no mod, no callbacks
15:50 nrzkt except core ensured callbacks
15:50 * VanessaE grumbles at paramat
15:52 nrzkt red-001: tell me if i'm right: we can open a client side formspec using register_on_step if we want ?
15:52 nrzkt it's a stupid event , but it's possible no ?
15:52 red-001 I think so
15:53 red-001 it sounds like a bad idea
15:53 nrzkt yes ofc
15:53 nrzkt just a possibility, stupiod mais possible with the current evnet
15:53 kilbith s/mais/but
15:54 nrzkt lol
15:54 nrzkt speaking french and english to two people at the same time does speakshake :D
15:54 kilbith brainfarts happen
15:54 nrzkt sorry for my big fingers :)
15:59 paramat 'engine failing to accurately report a crash' do you mean the mod being ''?
16:00 VanessaE ...and the missing backtrace (i.e. what line in what mod triggered the crash, if any)
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16:01 VanessaE (having the "stack traceback" give a redundant line pointing to game/item.lua is not useful)
16:01 paramat even with gdb and debug build?
16:02 VanessaE it's a debug build, but not running under gdb - this is a production server after all.
16:02 VanessaE that paste constitutes the entire error message before the log separator.
16:03 paramat hm well bug reports are often not great
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16:04 VanessaE I get that, but when the engine tells me the mod is '' and no reference to find the bug on my end, I'm left with only one option: yell in here.
16:06 paramat hehe
16:08 sofar nrzkt: that's certainly a dilemma. I'd love it if CSM could be trivially disabled, but honestly I think there's no reason to if its designed well
16:08 sofar how about
16:09 sofar we disable loading code over the network but allow local / builtin client mods?
16:09 sofar or maybe even a switch to only allow builtin client mods
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16:12 nrzkt there is no loading code over network at this moment and it's not intended to be done shortly
16:12 nrzkt there is only local mods which should not be added without knowing MT at this moment
16:13 nrzkt but i accept for maybe stability reasons and API changes to keep it disabled at first for next release, permitting to enhance local mods
16:13 nrzkt but, maybe enable mods should only enable mod loading , keeping the current lua builtin stack loaded, because it handle the death formspec now
16:14 nrzkt and we can for release move some trivial things from core to lua (example game main menu
16:14 nrzkt to builtin*
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16:22 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/uFoRHse.png interesting spikes
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16:24 Fixer not related to mesh updates but quite big
16:24 Fixer even with antijitter
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16:48 ShadowNinja nrzkt: Yeah, it uses the regex r"(?:^| )#([0-9]+)\b"  (it doesn't use a \b at the beginning because Python's regex parses doesn't recognize the start of the string as a word break).
16:48 nrzkt okay
16:52 ShadowNinja Actually, I looked it up and that doesn't seem to be the reason.  But it could be changed to r"(?:^|\W)...".
16:55 ShadowNinja nrzkt: (#5088)
16:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
16:55 nrzkt nic
16:55 nrzkt e
16:57 VanessaE nrzkt, sofar for G*d sakes do NOT require users to install their own copies of mods!!
16:57 VanessaE (for CSM)
16:58 nrzkt VanessaE: in fact you didn't understand the current state
16:58 sofar VanessaE: small development steps
16:58 VanessaE that's fine,
16:58 VanessaE but I'm responding to,
16:58 VanessaE [03-13 12:09] <sofar> we disable loading code over the network but allow local / builtin client mods?
16:58 sofar VanessaE: I don't think in the end that any user would, although it will help slow load times if they do
16:58 nrzkt we are working on it, server don't send mods, we should have a client side API first, with local mods, maybe a store permitting to have client side customizations from modders and, when security will be very very very very very strong, maybe we will string server to client sending
16:59 VanessaE absolutely not, under any circumstances, should one require users to seek out their own local copies of mods
16:59 sofar VanessaE: umm no
16:59 nrzkt the principle for the first release is to have client side mods for customize client, listening for server standard events
16:59 sofar VanessaE: under no circumstance should a user ever be FORCED to take a server's copy of a client mod
16:59 VanessaE no!
16:59 nrzkt sofar: agreed
16:59 sofar no!
16:59 VanessaE MC went that route and it was a total cluserfuck
16:59 VanessaE cluster*
16:59 sofar VanessaE: what you want you'll get
17:00 sofar VanessaE: but to get there *safely* things have to evolve a certain way
17:00 nrzkt VanessaE: please don't send dreambuilder on android client you will trigger a galaxy S8 burn :p
17:00 VanessaE if the user wants to disable receiving of CSM from a server, that's just fine, but don't ever require them to seek out their own copies.
17:00 sofar we don't require anything
17:00 sofar it will never be a requirement
17:00 VanessaE ok
17:00 sofar maybe a server operator may force them to, though
17:00 sofar but the engine won't
17:01 nrzkt VanessaE: at this moment there is no real question, server don't send mods, he just send normal data, and mod can listen normal data and read it, maybe triggering some UI events, but that's all for first release (on release +2, not next release)
17:01 sofar nor would we force that in e.g. mtg
17:01 kilbith I'm siding with sofar on that matter, fwiw
17:01 VanessaE I think I can guarantee you that no server owner will require it either, because that just makes more support work for us.
17:01 VanessaE (us as server operators I mean)
17:01 nrzkt VanessaE: no
17:02 nrzkt VanessaE: in fact, you can ask your users to install a local mod from MT modstore to enhance their game life, and you maintain yourself your mod on modstore
17:02 VanessaE no.
17:02 nrzkt and we should i think guarantee mod updates to client (if enabled)
17:02 sofar the thing I can see happening right now is that there will be CSM ambiance mods
17:02 sofar since those will be possible very soon
17:02 sofar and yes, server operators WILL tell players about it
17:02 nrzkt sofar: it's nearly possible with the current API, you can also spam player formspec with ads purely clientside if you want :p
17:02 sofar and for now, players WILL have to install them locally
17:02 nrzkt sofar: moreover they should code it themselves too :p
17:03 sofar nrzkt: can we have client-side http api pls?
17:03 sofar and load resources?
17:03 VanessaE yes, they will, until they get sick of telling players.  it's bad enough when we have to tell our players to upgrade to a current stable build (let alone dev builds).  you want us to start telling our users to go fetch this or that random mod?
17:03 sofar then we can solve the skinning problem :D
17:03 sofar also, external download of music tracks
17:03 nrzkt sofar: atm it's not the case, but after merge just plug ModAPIHTTP class to ClientScripting and that's all
17:04 nrzkt (maybe filter allowed functions)
17:04 sofar oh
17:04 sofar even better
17:04 sofar let's do it without http
17:04 sofar let's use mod channels instead
17:05 nrzkt VanessaE: on my server i have a formspec with rules, saying copy the phrase somewhere i nthe rules else you will be kicked from server , and users are not stupid they are doing it if they are interested, and spammers are kicked
17:05 sofar have each client send skin texture to the server :D
17:05 sofar (horribly insecure, but, it works)
17:05 nrzkt sofar: i'm not sure it's a good idea for skins
17:05 nrzkt nude skins powa
17:05 nrzkt or nazi skins...
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17:05 VanessaE nrzkt: you're lucky.  on my servers, users are BRAIN DEAD when it comes to the rules formspec.
17:05 nrzkt VanessaE: sorry i am nespresso and you are a poor coffee :D
17:05 * VanessaE shrugs
17:06 VanessaE look, I'm just trying to stop you guys from making a project-breaking mistake here.
17:07 nrzkt there is no break, we are adding new features, and trying to think secure and modular without compromise users
17:08 VanessaE if it's good enough for every web browser in existence, it's good enough for Minetest.
17:08 VanessaE (as in javascript or java, assuming a site that isn't stupid about it)
17:09 VanessaE sending code to be executed on the client is not inherently unsafe if you're not stupid about what you allow the client to execute.
17:09 VanessaE (as in what you as the devs allow in the client-side of the engine)
17:09 VanessaE and I trust that you guys are not stupid
17:11 VanessaE the irony here is I have no plans to use CSM myself, and only maybe two mods in my entire archive would even benefit from it.
17:12 sofar a lot of people are not seeing the potential
17:13 sofar VanessaE: have you ever thought of client-side sign entities?
17:13 VanessaE nope, because the problem with signs already IS client-side.
17:13 sofar I can even do signs without entities, I think
17:14 VanessaE the server can't pre-render a static image, so the client has to composite all the text together, which is what makes signs entities slow
17:14 sofar well that part will unlikely ever get fixed
17:15 sofar even node face text needs rendering somehow
17:15 sofar although an actual font engine will beat anything we can cook up
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17:15 sofar but, why bother keeping all these entity resources on the server?
17:15 sofar it's purely decorational
17:16 VanessaE the bottom line here is users are idiots.  you can't expect, let alone demand, that they get this or that random mod just so that one server out of 200 works right, especially android users, for whom locally-stored mods are even more difficult to figure out
17:16 sofar heck, let the client make the sign entities
17:16 sofar VanessaE: I see zero problems like that
17:16 nrzkt sofar: also we can have a meteo mod in CSM, imagine a mod receiving custom event meteo from server and doing meteo wit ha client mod from store :D
17:16 sofar VanessaE: you'd be a stupid server owner and nobody would play on your server
17:17 sofar self-correcting problem, imho
17:17 VanessaE sofar: that's exactly the problem.  now imagine for a moment:  most servers have mobs of some sort - the one thing CSM should be best at.
17:17 nrzkt absolutely not
17:17 sofar oh fuck no
17:17 sofar mobs will never be client side
17:17 nrzkt mobs are server side entities
17:17 VanessaE what seriously?
17:17 sofar stop dreaming nonsense
17:17 VanessaE the one thing CSM is most needed for?
17:18 nrzkt lol
17:18 sofar you're dilusional if you think that mobs will be client side
17:18 VanessaE *facepalm*
17:18 sofar seriously, it won't ever happen
17:18 sofar it's not even remotely logical or feasible
17:18 nrzkt VanessaE: you are free to code a mod for this if api permit it and let players cheat :D
17:18 nore ^ I think mobs should be server-side except with some prediction client-side
17:18 sofar not just that, csm mobs will be worse than server side
17:18 nrzkt nore: prediction is difficult, we can only predict movements and it's hard to define
17:18 VanessaE nore: that's my point.  the whole point of CSM was to allow stuff on the client that would be adversely affected by server or network lag.
17:19 nrzkt other parts are not predictable
17:19 sofar yes you can do plenty stuff client side to improve mobs, but they will stay server side
17:19 VanessaE or that's how CSM was supposed to have been
17:19 nore nrzkt: of course
17:19 nrzkt VanessaE: a better example is unified_inventory in CSM it's the concrete real example
17:19 sofar "predict mob walks to x,y,z in 3 seconds" -> message to client
17:19 nrzkt client side formspec, only inventory movement events sent to server without lags
17:19 VanessaE nrzkt: which all of my servers use, as do a number of others.
17:20 nrzkt formspecs local handling, HUD local handling are all the real CSM usage
17:20 nrzkt imagine a HUD with shaders effects, if we permit shaders (example particles
17:20 paramat ShadowNinja if you're around, are you ok with Krock as a new core dev for engine and game?
17:20 VanessaE paramat: dude, seriously offtopic ...
17:21 nrzkt VanessaE: don't be rude. it's channel for coredevs discussion
17:21 sofar "I'll allow it"
17:21 VanessaE nrzkt: yeah and we're in the middle of a different discussion :P
17:21 nrzkt VanessaE: not a problem just filter
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17:22 sofar priority #1 for CSM mods: decoration, both visual and sound
17:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome
17:22 nrzkt sofar: yeah
17:22 sofar hud, ambiance, cool particls
17:22 VanessaE anyway bottom line, you can be sure I won't ever consciously allow mods needing CSM on my servers, if it requires the end user to download *anything* other than a new client build.
17:22 sofar better chat
17:22 VanessaE (anything not sent by the server of course)
17:22 nrzkt sofar: yeah, i have a PR for a better chat protocol permit to have better handling client side
17:23 sofar VanessaE: It can't be required since it's client-side
17:23 sofar VanessaE: CSM can't force the client to have certain mods to connect to a server
17:23 rubenwardy in the future it should do (minus opting out)
17:23 sofar nor should it affect anything unless we have some sort of "does client have mod X" type message
17:24 sofar of course, if nrzkt makes some sort of messaging protocol like I've been begging him for, a server could indeed do that
17:24 sofar "hey, you can reply to this message? no? kick!"
17:24 nrzkt sofar: maybe we can add a message sending mod requirements to client
17:24 rubenwardy web#93 web#94
17:24 VanessaE any code the client needs to execute, that isn't already included in Minetest engine builds, needs to be sent by the server.
17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/​minetest.github.io/issues/93 -- Fix linter errors by rubenwardy
17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/​minetest.github.io/issues/94 -- Add platform dependent download link by rubenwardy
17:25 sofar nrzkt: inter-client/server mod messaging shouldn't be in a mod IMHO of course
17:25 VanessaE if the client wants to refuse it, I'm fine with that.
17:25 sofar I don't see anything right now that would ever force the client to run any csm
17:26 VanessaE as you just said, "can't reply to this message?  kick!" is just fine with me, as long as CSM is enabled by default (once it's considered stable enough to actually use, of course)
17:26 VanessaE opt-out, not opt-in
17:26 nrzkt hey guys, i suggest to report the server to client mods later, when CSM pure client sid e will be merged and we will have sufficient API calls to make it interesting for everybody purely client side :p
17:26 sofar well that's a evil-server-operator option (opt-in)
17:26 twoelk abou the potential of CSM, do we have a thread on the forum  and if not maybe he should have one,  that lists the possible uses of CSM?
17:27 nrzkt twoelk: #5088 is the current discussion
17:27 twoelk -he+we
17:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
17:27 sofar we can't stop server operators being dumb or evil
17:27 VanessaE what's so dumb or evil about sending code to the client that the server operator trusts?
17:27 sofar they can already prevent many clients from connecting with strict version checks, for instance
17:27 Fixer weather/ambience/hud/physics
17:27 VanessaE if I trust a piece of code, shouldn't my users be able to trust it also?
17:27 twoelk dont make it too easy to be evil though
17:28 nrzkt VanessaE: imagine we allow for a reason http client, you send mod to client, http is allowed, i can have zombie machines for DDOS
17:28 sofar VanessaE: I wouldn't necessarily trust the server ops, no
17:28 paramat channel has parallel conversations :]
17:28 VanessaE nrzkt: no one's saying to allow things like THAT.
17:28 sofar the client should be highly conservative when it comes to trusting code from a server
17:28 VanessaE sofar: and I'm fine with that, too
17:28 Fixer at least allow weather/ambience/hud/physics mods
17:29 sofar weather is mostly particles and decoration
17:29 nrzkt sofar: if we have some server to client mods we should have a more and more restrictive lua stack, separated from client local mods, maybe
17:29 sofar should be easy
17:29 nrzkt Fixer: our first goal should be that
17:29 nrzkt i propose to open a github discussion after 5088 merge tagged as roadmap permitting to discuss about needs and have a checklist
17:29 sofar yes, it needs a new thread
17:30 sofar but you have to figure out what to do with 5088 first. I'd say merge it, but, shrug, not sure how others feel
17:30 Fixer +1 about checklist
17:30 nrzkt rubenwardy: no squash, i will fix messages
17:30 VanessaE merge it, disabled by default, for devs use only, assuming no further changes are needed.
17:31 twoelk I think a thread on the forum with a curatted list may also be usefull - as people there may have quite different ideas than those that use github
17:32 nrzkt twoelk: in fact GH is better because devs are consuming more time on github, and it permit to reference commits or PR easily
17:33 nrzkt then we can track the CSM part 2 easily
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17:33 twoelk all true but pretty invisible for normal users
17:33 nrzkt twoelk: as you say, normal users
17:33 twoelk :-)
17:37 nrzkt see you soon i'm off for a moment, if more can add their vote on 5088 for a merge, maybe we can merge it in 4-5 hours permitting more users (on this chan) to test the current capabilities. I let preview mod as a playground for modders, as CSM is disabled by default (see minetest.conf)
17:44 Fixer sofar: there were some changes to screws, i can't rotate signs anymore it seems
17:44 paramat screws
17:44 VanessaE Fixer: make sure the sign has somewhere to go.
17:44 VanessaE e.g. an adjoining wall
17:45 Fixer i did
17:45 Fixer let me try again
17:46 Fixer nope, it does not rotate
17:46 sofar hmm I tried signs as the first thing
17:46 sofar which sign is it?
17:46 sofar mtg sign?
17:46 Fixer wooden
17:46 Fixer yes
17:47 red-001 the issue with the death formspec needs to get fixed before csm be merged
17:47 VanessaE confirmed, broken in 07a5fca4
17:47 red-001 can be merged*
17:47 VanessaE default wooden sign, plain minetest_game, no extra mods
17:49 VanessaE broken at b87ef5cc (HEAD as of now) too.
17:49 VanessaE (not that that commit has anything to do with the screwdriver :P )
17:53 paramat celeron55 perhaps you could invite Krock to be a core dev for engine and game? i have asked all active/responsive 'team minetest' core devs (8 out of 14) and all are +1
17:54 celeron55 and Krock would like to?
17:56 sofar looks indeed broken
17:56 sofar celeron55: yes, he said he was up for it
18:00 paramat yes he would like to
18:01 celeron55 where can i look this up? i don't like doing stuff like this without actually hearing from the person in question
18:01 sofar I asked him in IRC, no idea when though, I'd have to search
18:02 celeron55 maybe i'll ask when he's around
18:02 sofar <sofar> Krock: are you up for it?
18:02 sofar <Krock> sofar, I think so, yes.
18:02 sofar still in my logs
18:03 Fixer i seen that too
18:03 VanessaE 03-10 12:03 EST in case you're curious.
18:03 sofar http://irc.minetest.net/minet​est-dev/2017-03-09#i_4826926
18:04 sofar celeron55: but sure, ask him again (maybe he was being polite to me, lol)
18:04 VanessaE hm, my clock must be a bit off.
18:04 paramat yeah good idea
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18:09 sofar US went on summertime this weekend (idiots)
18:09 VanessaE yep, save for three states now I guess
18:34 Fixer falling in boat from big height on ground deals no damage it seems
18:37 sofar break a rail under a cart you are in
18:37 sofar let it fall with player
18:37 sofar same problem
18:37 sofar well, cart has no gravity set
18:38 sofar but you could sit under lava in a boat too I think, without taking damage
18:38 Fixer hmmmm
18:38 Fixer m
18:39 Fixer let me check
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18:43 Fixer sofar: you die in lava while in a boat (no problem here), but you keep respawning in that boat in lava and die again and again
18:43 sofar lol
18:44 paramat #5382 seems ready to go now
18:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5382 -- Mgv7: Add optional giant caverns at depth by paramat
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18:44 red-001 and you stay connected to the boat right?
18:44 sofar Fixer: were signs rotatable by the screwdriver before?
18:45 red-001 I tried fixing that but it had unintended side effects
18:46 paramat celeron55 Krock is present
18:46 Krock and if I'd leave, I'd be past
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18:54 nerzhul red-001, i changed the stack enable to make death formspec work again
18:55 Fixer sofar: yes
18:56 nerzhul 5088 is now ready for a merge
18:57 Fixer sofar: remember you and vanessa here and I was playing with rotating signs from one surface to another
18:58 red-001 we also need the on_death callback
18:59 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088​/commits/2defddfe71f6b111ef9824cb20689f4232a84​89f#diff-52d62464c553a0d0abe5dd142bff4174R12
19:00 nerzhul on_death and on_hp ?
19:00 nerzhul yes you are right i saw that now
19:00 red-001 and register_on_sending_chatmessage
19:00 nerzhul why ?
19:00 red-001 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088​/files#diff-bbc9cdb8c658e05032d423038ca178ebR4
19:01 nerzhul the death used that as message ?
19:01 red-001 the issued command text was moved to lua
19:03 nerzhul strange on_death give me a lua error, it seems initMods does more than requested
19:03 nerzhul ModError: Runtime error from mod '' in callback on_death(): attempt to call a nil value
19:04 celeron55 http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Guidelines <- github has gotten a bunch of new features after this has been written; getting this up to date might be a good idea
19:04 nerzhul celeron55, y
19:04 nerzhul red-001, here is the current result : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088/c​ommits/fa96c9664a109f33bd1a078d0e9b7a2c85c693ae
19:05 nerzhul red-001, !
19:05 nerzhul m_script->loadMod(getBuiltinLuaPath() + DIR_DELIM "init.lua", BUILTIN_MOD_NAME);
19:05 nerzhul it's the first line :)
19:05 nerzhul i don't load builtin
19:05 red-001 looks like thats the issue
19:06 red-001 if bultin isn't loaded trying to call callbacks will fail
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19:06 Fixer sofar: i'm confused, maybe it was some PR i tested?
19:07 nerzhul red-001, okay i fixed it
19:08 nerzhul red-001, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5088​/commits/7a6e5a63df1e7a4aa85c8c930f3ee12cf6fe9​74d#diff-34f48ad91ac6c202ac60b0348ae90e30R274
19:08 nerzhul we load builtin but stop loading here, no mod will be loaded
19:09 nerzhul okay #5088 is ready for merge
19:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
19:10 nerzhul we have the switch, we have a little builtin with just formspec & messages when died other parts are enabled only if you configure minetest.conf
19:12 Thomas-S nerzhul, apparantly your CSM commits are signed. According to the dev wiki (http://dev.minetest.net/Git_Gu​idelines#Upstream_commit_rules) this will break a PPA. Not sure if this still applies, just wanted to remind you.
19:23 sofar who cares about PPA?
19:23 Fixer some servers use it
19:23 Fixer like xanadu
19:23 Fixer iirc
19:25 sofar honestly, I don't see how ubuntu can dictate how people make commits in minetest
19:25 sofar irrelevant, fix bzr, go away
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19:38 red-001 could #5075 be reopened?
19:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5075 -- Players killed while attached to entity stay attached and don't respawn normaly.
19:40 red-001 the bug had to be revented as it didn't work correctly
19:40 red-001 ahh
19:41 red-001 s/bug/fix
19:54 nerzhul Thomas-S, my commits are signed but this doesn't break ppa, it's just a git commit, update you git client.
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20:06 Krock *it breaks weblate
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20:14 nerzhul Krock, and why it should break weblate ? it's just a signature not an encrypted comment
20:14 nerzhul commit
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20:46 ShadowNinja paramat: I haven't been around enough to really know much about him, but AFAIK that's fine.
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21:10 Fixer ShadowNinja: i tried new luajit from git, it goes past limit easily, works 30 seconds and CTD
21:11 paramat SN ok
21:13 VanessaE Fixer, ShadowNinja as did I.  just started getting unexplained OOMs.  new luajit with GC64 turned on (and MT compiled against it) stopped them.
21:14 nerzhul sofar, Zeno` ShadowNinja sfan5 paramat nore okay for merging #5088 now ?
21:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
21:15 nerzhul client Lua builtin stack is enabled for death formspec but all mod support is disabled and only death formspec required calls are enabled into core when mods are disabled.
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21:18 Fixer GC64 allowed me to go past limit but yeah, Crash To Desktop later, backtraces were posted in kwolekr lua oom issue
21:20 VanessaE well this was on my servers, so no crash-to-desktop as such.  occasionally a crash in builtin/item.lua possibly caused by digging an unknown node, but that's about all.
21:21 sofar I've been playing for the last few days with CSM enabled and I had zero issues
21:22 nerzhul sofar, seems #5152 disappear on a force push, i re-add the commit , thanks for github patches from PR :)
21:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5152 -- [CSM] Add `get_wielded_item` by red-001
21:22 nerzhul compiling now, testing and will push
21:24 nerzhul okay it's good
21:24 nerzhul thanks to prview mod :)
21:25 nerzhul nore are you okay too ? est31 ?
21:26 nerzhul builtin loaded for current core spec (death formspec) no mod except if you set enable_client_modding to true ?
21:26 nerzhul i will merge it in ~1h if nobody complains
21:26 paramat i don't understand it enough to approve a merge
21:27 nore nerzhul: a quick check a while ago looked ok to me, no time to check right now
21:27 nerzhul nore, it has not changed since some weeks, except today i added a switch and re-inserted a missing commit lost during a rebase
21:28 nerzhul after merge i need to add mod storage API to client too, our future mods will really need that :)
21:31 Fixer mainloop draw jitter during emergeblocks: https://i.imgur.com/U5wImto.png
21:31 Fixer why?
21:32 paramat .. but i don't object, i leave it to others to decide
21:33 paramat Fixer those are the long freezes i get
21:34 Fixer 58 msec is not long
21:34 Fixer i get 100-200 ms sometimes without that sleep method
21:34 Fixer 100 ms is often tbh
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21:35 Fixer there is no mesh updates, yet lots of drawing spikes
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21:52 red-001 nerzhul, maybe you could disable the preview mod instead of removing it?
21:52 red-001 iirc minetest doesn't load mods if they have a "-" in their name
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21:54 red-001 that way it will still be usable as an example mod
21:55 nerzhul red-001, i didn't disable or remove it atm
21:55 nerzhul a - ? strange, but why not
21:55 red-001 or maybe rename init.lua to init.lua.bck
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22:06 nore ^ .example would be better if you do that
22:08 est31 I haven't looked at the code at all, but don't think I will
22:08 est31 so dont hold it back bc of me
22:09 est31 I trust you :)
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22:19 red-001 lol someone already made a  csm mod https://github.com/bigfoot547/csm-inspect
22:22 nerzhul it's great to see some users will find some interesting usecase and give us feedback it permits to improve it
22:30 Fixer "punch a node to see everything about it." not fancy! "hover over the node to see everything about it" - now thats a deal :}
22:38 red-001 does travis implement rate limiting or something?
22:38 nerzhul red-001, yes if there are too many builds
22:38 nerzhul will merge in ~10mins
22:56 nerzhul merged
22:57 nerzhul thanks all for your tests, support and red-001 for your prs :)
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23:11 Fixer Calinou: they need to block everything and everybody since nothing can be reliable source these days
23:13 red-001 lol minetestbot got kicked for flooding
23:13 red-001 too many commits
23:14 nerzhul red-001, xD
23:14 nerzhul sofar is hot, first issue, maybe first PR ? :p
23:15 nerzhul if i get time tomorrow i will add mod storage PR
23:15 sofar it's fresh in my mind, so, might as well write stuff down now
23:15 nerzhul sofar, i think it could be good to enhance preview to use all our functions, this permit to do a functional test easily, what do you think ?
23:15 red-001 nerzhul, are you still working on the chat protocol improvements?
23:16 sofar nerzhul: I think I suggested this already earlier in the github thread (enable for all dev builds, disable for official) so yeah
23:16 nerzhul red-001, i haven't do many work on minetest these days as i'm very busy on ansible contributions and some personal projects, but i will work on it for this release, it could be a good point to have it for this release permitting to use it at full capacity on next release +1 with CSM
23:18 nerzhul sofar, you mean about CSM, it's disabled for everybody as some users seems to use dev builds regularly , but you can enable it easily in mt.conf and after this release we can enable it by default on dev builds
23:19 nerzhul only builtin stack is partially enabled in master for required gameplay components
23:19 nerzhul some core parts should be ported to builtin, like game menu
23:20 sofar ack
23:20 red-001 I'm not sure if porting the menu is a good idea
23:20 nerzhul red-001, if it's builtin why not ? we already have all main menu in lua
23:20 red-001 it would mean adding a lot of functions that other mods wouldn't need
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23:21 red-001 good point
23:21 red-001 maybe just port the formspec for now?
23:21 nerzhul red-001, keymapping formspec can be a good point, it permits to have mods changing keymapping on events (why not)
23:22 red-001 I see your point
23:22 rubenwardy the client_lua_api.txt file should have a disclaimer
23:22 rubenwardy we should be free to break the API
23:22 nerzhul i looked at the game menu formspec it's not very trivial because it uses some little ugly callback variables , this needs a little bit rework and refactor to work
23:22 red-001 you want to port all or most of the functionality of the c++ formspec to lua?
23:22 nerzhul rubenwardy, yeah, agreed, PR and push :)
23:22 red-001 like move the key change menu to lua?
23:23 nerzhul red-001, if we can change the keymapping to it at this could be good, second part is not easy because of exiting, and build informations
23:24 red-001 just bind a lua function to the c++ exit/disconnect function
23:24 rubenwardy am I allowed to rename it to .md? Given that no links will be broken
23:25 red-001 it didn't look too hard last time I looked into this
23:25 red-001 +1 to renaming it
23:25 nerzhul rubenwardy, agreed
23:27 nerzhul i go to bed, see you tomorrow :)
23:27 sofar one more CSM feature request
23:27 sofar #5390
23:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5390 -- CSM: messaging channels
23:35 rubenwardy #5391
23:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5391 -- Add disclaimer to client_lua_api.md by rubenwardy
23:37 sofar lol yes :+1:
23:37 rubenwardy also, there's a lot of duplication between the two lua_api files currently
23:37 rubenwardy but meh
23:40 chatter29 joined #minetest-dev
23:40 chatter29 hey guys
23:40 chatter29 allah is doing
23:40 chatter29 sun is not doing allah is doing
23:40 chatter29 to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
23:46 rubenwardy if the IP changes, //ban chatter*@*
23:46 VanessaE ban webchat.

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