| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:32 |
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| 05:22 |
kaeza |
sofar, re: game#1579, can you skip the realtime updates to homes_file and do it only at shutdown? |
| 05:22 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1579 -- Migrate sethome mod to player attributes. by sofar |
| 05:23 |
kaeza |
in sethome.set I mean |
| 05:25 |
kaeza |
I'd personally prefer if mods started using the modname:whatever notation for everything that requires keys |
| 05:25 |
kaeza |
e.g. sethome:home for the attribute in this case |
| 05:26 |
kaeza |
(and FWIW, modname.whatever for settings) |
| 05:28 |
sofar |
Since the list will only ever shrink, and shutdown may omit calling on_shutdown .. this is just simpler and almost more reliable |
| 05:28 |
sofar |
I could care less about the prefix, I'm just the first one using it |
| 05:29 |
sofar |
so, if people agree which one of [_:.] we use then I'll apply it |
| 05:29 |
kaeza |
fine with me FWIW |
| 05:31 |
sofar |
game#1608 |
| 05:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1608 -- Choose player attribute modname prefix character. |
| 05:31 |
sofar |
nore: paramat: sfan5: rubenwardy ^^ |
| 05:36 |
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| 05:38 |
kaeza |
other related things are form names, meta keys, etc. |
| 05:39 |
kaeza |
there seems to be default:chest_locked and default:book, but beds_form |
| 05:39 |
kaeza |
that's a minor point though |
| 05:40 |
kaeza |
I guess it's too late to change "secret" to "default:key_secret" or something |
| 05:42 |
sofar |
they're often derived from lua names |
| 05:42 |
sofar |
and those can't have : in them |
| 06:06 |
|
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| 06:46 |
celeron55 |
"I hope I am contacting the correct person here. I have been doing some testing with Minetest in a school I work in and I am very impressed so far. The only question I have is, is there a way I can secure this for children? Basically I only want them to access the single player and maybe an internal server. I know this isn’t what it was originally designed for however the school are really keen to deploy it network wide but, ... |
| 06:46 |
celeron55 |
... having publically accessible servers is a Child protection risk. If this is not possible do you have a list of servers or ports I am able to deny access to? To stop publically accessible servers functioning?" |
| 06:46 |
celeron55 |
what's our reply to questions like this? |
| 06:49 |
VanessaE |
imho, tell them this is outside of minetest's purpose, block external access at their firewall, save for a whitelist |
| 06:50 |
VanessaE |
it's up to him to decide what isn't acceptable (or what is) |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
(I'm a strong supporter of freedom of association, so if he wants to restrict that, let him do so on his own) |
| 06:53 |
celeron55 |
well i think there's nothing wrong in what they're wanting to do |
| 06:54 |
celeron55 |
someone's going to blame the school if the kids go on public servers and see things someone doesn't want them to see |
| 06:55 |
VanessaE |
that's fair, but there have been "didn't go far enough" situations as well |
| 06:56 |
VanessaE |
some dickhead somewhere will blame MT if it doesn't block things "just right" |
| 06:57 |
celeron55 |
yes, we should certainly try to avoid that |
| 06:58 |
|
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| 06:58 |
celeron55 |
that's actually a very good reason for why we might want to not really support this |
| 06:58 |
VanessaE |
of course, we could just blame nerzhul ;) |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
? |
| 07:00 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: just nod, smile, and say "okay" :) (or check the logs for 15 mins ago) |
| 07:00 |
nerzhul |
i'm reading it , but i just wake up it's rude :p |
| 07:00 |
VanessaE |
heh just kidding, nerzhul :) |
| 07:02 |
sofar |
celeron55: I would actually suggest removing the multiplayer tab entirely instead |
| 07:02 |
sofar |
or replacing it with a custom single hardcoded server form only |
| 07:03 |
VanessaE |
the teacher (or whatever his/her title) could perhaps set up a proxy that captures the cURL request from MT and filters it? |
| 07:03 |
VanessaE |
(I hesitate to lump that in with firewall rules) |
| 07:04 |
sofar |
I would actually avoid external-to-mt-client solutions and patch the client instead so it does what they want |
| 07:04 |
nerzhul |
just a mt.conf switch could be sufficient ? |
| 07:04 |
sofar |
nerzhul: no, because the kids can modify mt.conf |
| 07:04 |
sofar |
best to provide a client that has the abilities entirely removed |
| 07:04 |
nerzhul |
just change rights to root root 644 |
| 07:05 |
sofar |
~/.minetest/minetest.conf |
| 07:05 |
nerzhul |
this is not a problem |
| 07:05 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: what stops the kid from launching MT with a different config? |
| 07:05 |
sofar |
minetest --config some/other/conf |
| 07:05 |
nerzhul |
path != rights |
| 07:05 |
nerzhul |
ok |
| 07:05 |
nerzhul |
but what is the problem in fact ? |
| 07:05 |
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| 07:06 |
sofar |
like I said, the best way is to hard code the client to only allow connections to a certain server |
| 07:06 |
sofar |
so, patch the client |
| 07:06 |
sofar |
anything else is a bandaid |
| 07:06 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: the teacher is afraid his students will end up finding pr0n. |
| 07:06 |
nerzhul |
in mt ? lol |
| 07:06 |
sofar |
VanessaE: s/will end up finding pr0n./ parents' will sue the school/ |
| 07:07 |
VanessaE |
sofar: I was being sarcastic. |
| 07:07 |
sofar |
I know, but, it helps to rule out kids being the problem |
| 07:07 |
sofar |
the real problem is the lawyers |
| 07:09 |
VanessaE |
I'd say the real problem is litigious parents, not so much the lawyers they hire |
| 07:09 |
celeron55 |
then there's an email from someone from french asking if i or some other minetest developer could come to some "graphics labbor 2017" event in rennes, france to "share your experience about the minetest development, and at the same time, show us your others creations." and they are checking if they can pay for the trip |
| 07:09 |
celeron55 |
france* |
| 07:10 |
celeron55 |
i'm not going, but if some core developer or contributor wants to, i can forward this |
| 07:10 |
nerzhul |
sorry i'm french but not interested, i'm not very aware on graphic parts |
| 07:11 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: maybe you can talk Calinou into it ;) |
| 07:11 |
nerzhul |
or nroe |
| 07:11 |
nerzhul |
nore |
| 07:11 |
VanessaE |
oh right |
| 07:11 |
VanessaE |
or kilbith :) |
| 07:13 |
celeron55 |
i am convinced this email comes from france because i can't really understand what half of it exactly means |
| 07:13 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: that's a pretty nice offer though, in all seriousness. |
| 07:15 |
celeron55 |
it is |
| 07:20 |
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| 07:25 |
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| 07:27 |
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| 07:34 |
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| 07:40 |
paramat |
heh talking about MT at a graphics event =] sharing the experience of chaos development |
| 07:51 |
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| 08:08 |
celeron55 |
well they say it's a game developer event |
| 08:08 |
celeron55 |
dunno |
| 08:13 |
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| 08:15 |
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| 08:16 |
juhdanad |
If someone would like to go, I would happily explain how node colorization works. |
| 08:25 |
paramat |
http://rgba.fr/rgba-invited-at-grafik-labor-in-rennes-france/ might be this |
| 08:25 |
paramat |
"Grafik Labor is a new conference dedicated to graphic and visual creation using Free and open-source softwares and tools." |
| 08:25 |
Calinou |
VanessaE: sorry, I can't, but thanks for the offer :) |
| 08:25 |
Calinou |
celeron55: yeah, they asked on #minetest-fr |
| 08:32 |
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| 08:34 |
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| 08:36 |
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| 08:38 |
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| 08:42 |
celeron55 |
fyi, here's my response to the earlier email with the school whitelisting question: |
| 08:42 |
celeron55 |
Minetest isn't really designed to do that, but depending on what exactly you need, you could for example configure the public server list to be disabled or for example edit the main menu to not allow entering any other servers than a single one. Or, really, anything. The menu is a very flexible system for anyone with a bit of programming knowledge. |
| 08:42 |
celeron55 |
The main menu lives in a bunch of Lua files, no need to even |
| 08:42 |
celeron55 |
recompile: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/builtin/mainmenu |
| 08:43 |
celeron55 |
i.e. making a custom version for schools is easy, we don't need to stress about it |
| 08:45 |
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| 09:00 |
paramat |
please could someone review #4967 ? |
| 09:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4967 -- New bulk node light update by juhdanad |
| 09:03 |
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| 09:26 |
paramat |
celeron55 perhaps you should state a legal disclaimer in your response? |
| 09:29 |
celeron55 |
i asked about why the other ones are inviting minetest to a graphics-related event; this is the answer: "It seems I make a wrong express, this is not an event ONLY on graphic software, but also on the free web and video game development (and all the job about the video games). So, the event is about the developers, designer, sound designer, tester etc." |
| 09:30 |
celeron55 |
so it's actually some kind of... well i don't even know, everything apparently |
| 09:31 |
celeron55 |
we need some kind of a stand-up comedian who understands minetest's development history and can go to all events |
| 09:32 |
celeron55 |
then it doesn't even matter what the event is about |
| 09:34 |
celeron55 |
paramat: meh, there's enough legal disclaimer is in minetest's license already |
| 09:34 |
celeron55 |
-is |
| 09:34 |
paramat |
ok good |
| 09:35 |
paramat |
hehe yes MT dev is a comedy |
| 10:13 |
est31 |
servers.minetest.net -> 0.0.0.0 in hosts.conf |
| 10:13 |
est31 |
very easy trick. works without a firewall |
| 10:14 |
est31 |
ofc manual entry still possible |
| 10:16 |
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| 13:09 |
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| 14:00 |
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| 15:06 |
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| 15:16 |
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| 15:20 |
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| 15:23 |
kilbith |
paramat should stop being a fucking hypocrite seriously |
| 15:24 |
kilbith |
in one of his comment he invited Krock to downvote a PR and ignore the other developer opinions because of his "good sense", but then he silently deleted that part few hours later |
| 15:24 |
kilbith |
sorry to be rude but that shit he regularly does must stop |
| 15:24 |
kilbith |
be a real man and assume the consequences of what you're saying |
| 15:24 |
kilbith |
^ Zeno` could second it I think |
| 15:30 |
Zeno` |
he said that? |
| 15:30 |
kilbith |
yeah |
| 15:30 |
Zeno` |
where? |
| 15:30 |
kilbith |
I did not take a screenshot this time |
| 15:31 |
kilbith |
in that comment : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4929#issuecomment-284974704 |
| 15:33 |
kilbith |
sometimes I dream to take this chickenshit by the collar and eject him through the door |
| 15:33 |
kilbith |
he's not only incompetent, but hypocrite |
| 15:34 |
Zeno` |
I really don't want to turn email notifications back on but maybe it's necessary :( |
| 15:34 |
kilbith |
and impopular at the utmost degree |
| 15:40 |
kilbith |
I'm willing to bet he'll say I'm exaggerating you'll see |
| 15:44 |
Zeno` |
a comment like that would not be acceptable |
| 15:44 |
Zeno` |
I can't see it, but if paramat wrote in a PR telling other people to downvote then that is BS |
| 15:45 |
kilbith |
thing is, he frequently posts offenses and then edit like a coward |
| 15:50 |
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| 15:51 |
est31 |
This strategy done in a few exceptional cases is okay, but if you adopt it as habit its not okay. Your habit should instead be to read through the comment before you press the button. |
| 15:53 |
nrzkt |
i also noticed paramat edited his comments to remove some parts after someone answer to it :( |
| 15:53 |
kilbith |
especially when you're core-dev, otherwise what idea of MT you're leaving to the exterior... |
| 15:54 |
sfan5 |
kilbith: the email notification does not include anything like that, must've been edited later |
| 15:54 |
est31 |
well yeah image is important, but if you start kicking out people out of these reasons, you'll soon be empty. Nobody is perfect. |
| 15:55 |
kilbith |
sfan5: yes, he may have added that part later, then removed it |
| 15:55 |
kilbith |
damn on me to do not have a screenshot on hand |
| 15:58 |
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| 15:58 |
kilbith |
est31: it's not only that btw, it's not fun to contribute with him in the team; everytime it's about graphics he makes a fuss to make it difficult to merge |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:10 |
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| 16:34 |
kilbith |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4929#issuecomment-285091091 |
| 16:34 |
kilbith |
why the hell he's not coming on IRC |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
he has said in the past that he finds IRC intimidating or difficult to talk on when there's a conflict. |
| 16:35 |
kilbith |
like you said, chickenshit |
| 16:35 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs |
| 16:36 |
kilbith |
people with no balls these days... |
| 16:37 |
kilbith |
meh, always the same excuses, gonna ignoring it |
| 16:38 |
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| 16:51 |
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| 16:55 |
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| 17:15 |
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| 17:17 |
paramat |
kilbith i'm here, but i haven't joined IRC because you expect me too. often when someone demands i join IRC for some reason i don't |
| 17:18 |
kilbith |
glad to see you finally came here |
| 17:19 |
kilbith |
I don't intend to bite you, just demand to be honest and true with people on github |
| 17:19 |
* sofar |
politely waves |
| 17:20 |
paramat |
note that you responded to me on IRC instead of in the thread, likewise i will respond to you wherever i want to |
| 17:20 |
kilbith |
it was offtopic, I didn't want to pollute that PR |
| 17:23 |
paramat |
i'm happy to be honest and true about the unreasonable things i sometimes write, i don't delete them in the hope no-one sees them, as i have explained in the thread |
| 17:24 |
|
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| 17:24 |
kilbith |
I'll likely end up sending an e-mail to the github team to forbid editing comments after an hour |
| 17:24 |
paramat |
the editing is not done through cowardice |
| 17:24 |
paramat |
that would be silly |
| 17:25 |
paramat |
editing is essential and useful for many reasons |
| 17:26 |
kilbith |
yeah, to avoid conflicts for example ? |
| 17:27 |
kilbith |
I've seen your numerous attacks toward e.g. hmmmm or Zeno` |
| 17:28 |
paramat |
i don't attack hmmmm much. arguments happen in dev, that's what it's like |
| 17:29 |
sfan5 |
kilbith: the github team wouldn't fulfil that request |
| 17:29 |
kilbith |
what I hate is people being sugar with you on IRC and then they stab you on github |
| 17:29 |
kilbith |
what an hypocrisy |
| 17:31 |
paramat |
i'm happy to be unpleasant to you on IRC if you want :] |
| 17:31 |
kilbith |
I prefer you go unpleasant with me on IRC but then it stops there, not on github |
| 17:31 |
paramat |
i'm often unpleasant to people on IRC, uunfortunately |
| 17:32 |
kilbith |
if you want a mudfight, do it here, but only here |
| 17:32 |
Zeno` |
paramat, did you tell Krock to downvote a PR? |
| 17:33 |
paramat |
'tell' is not the word |
| 17:35 |
paramat |
"Krock, i think you should stick with your opposition, according to your good sense, and not worry about what other's think, they may be wrong" that's the best i can remember |
| 17:35 |
kilbith |
I confirm that was something like that, maybe a little more directive |
| 17:35 |
paramat |
as he's clearly opposed to the concept as you can see from the comments |
| 17:36 |
paramat |
although now i can see the PR is actually a lot more reasonable than i first thought |
| 17:37 |
kilbith |
meanwhile I must leave now, bye |
| 17:37 |
est31 |
I'll leave too |
| 17:37 |
est31 |
bye |
| 17:37 |
paramat |
meant as encouragement, but then i saw that trying to influence someone's vote is probably unreasonable |
| 17:38 |
* est31 |
is gone. |
| 17:38 |
* VanessaE |
remains, just for spite :P |
| 17:41 |
|
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| 17:42 |
paramat |
Krock sorry for that comment |
| 17:42 |
Krock |
please specify |
| 17:46 |
paramat |
hehe |
| 17:46 |
Krock |
ah, *sees logs* |
| 17:46 |
paramat |
see logs for this channel |
| 17:47 |
Krock |
looks like a potential flamewar |
| 17:48 |
Krock |
Zeno`, I'm the manipulating person here. Upvotes aren't given away on demand ;) |
| 17:49 |
Krock |
*downvotes aswell |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:52 |
Krock |
is it my lossy brain or did I actually never hear this sentence about sticking with my opposition? |
| 17:56 |
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| 18:15 |
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| 18:31 |
paramat |
Krock i edited my comment in the thread to remove that, so you might have not seen it |
| 18:32 |
Krock |
ah, okay. |
| 18:36 |
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| 18:39 |
Fixer |
can someone write a simple mod that makes lua OOM? |
| 18:40 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: why not just declare a table and fill it with really large elements? |
| 18:41 |
sofar |
Fixer: a = {}; for i = 1,1000000 do a[i] = table.copy(minetest.registered_nodes); end |
| 18:41 |
kilbith |
an infinite loop triggers a OOM quite fast |
| 18:41 |
VanessaE |
foo = {} for i in 1,1000000 do table.insert(foo, "meh") end bar = {} for i i |
| 18:41 |
VanessaE |
damn it sofar |
| 18:41 |
VanessaE |
ninja'd :P |
| 18:42 |
VanessaE |
(and yeah, I know. = instead of in. whatever :P ) |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
please note that most OOM errors you see in lua are actually stack overflows |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
but, that's a side-effect |
| 18:43 |
VanessaE |
sofar: that raises the question, why wouldn't such a stack overflow be propagated to the error handling code before it could result in an OOM? |
| 18:43 |
Fixer |
i need one that goes past lua mem limit, but don't use up all my 8gb |
| 18:45 |
sofar |
Fixer: lua memory limit is less than your ram anyway |
| 18:46 |
sofar |
VanessaE: a stack overflow is technically a segmentatio fault, so it follows a different error handling path |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 18:46 |
sofar |
that's why in C it also is handled differently |
| 18:46 |
VanessaE |
gotchya |
| 18:46 |
Fixer |
sofar: yes, but they introduced some new LJ_GC64 mode, I'm trying it out https://github.com/LuaJIT/LuaJIT/issues/25#issuecomment-183660706 |
| 18:46 |
sofar |
a stack overflow in C is not a -ENOMEM for instance |
| 18:47 |
VanessaE |
(I never really connected stack overflow to a segfault before, but it makes sense) |
| 18:48 |
sofar |
you're violating the segmentation of the stack segment |
| 18:48 |
sofar |
by attempting to grow the stack beyond the limits of the stack segment :) |
| 18:48 |
VanessaE |
right, that's what I figured |
| 18:49 |
VanessaE |
I'm just used to old systems where the stack was not just a segment of memory, but restricted - an overflow in those instances overwrites the other end of the stack instead of exceeding its address space |
| 18:49 |
VanessaE |
(or trying to exceed) |
| 18:59 |
paramat |
Fixer this old version of riverdev might OOM, but it's not a simple mod https://github.com/paramat/riverdev/tree/9b34f87c9a35d6d7f2251e5ec8064e1b81d7164f |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
VanessaE: gcc protects the stack from overflowing |
| 19:00 |
paramat |
10 3D noises =/ |
| 19:05 |
getbiomeinfo |
*,.....,* |
| 19:06 |
getbiomeinfo |
sofar: thank you |
| 19:06 |
getbiomeinfo |
great results |
| 19:06 |
getbiomeinfo |
I've used "a = {}; for i = 1,1500000 do a[i] = table.copy(minetest.registered_nodes); end" |
| 19:06 |
getbiomeinfo |
gave instant OOM on loading with usual minetest |
| 19:06 |
getbiomeinfo |
but now |
| 19:06 |
getbiomeinfo |
i load this one with LJ_GC64 mode and it loads! |
| 19:08 |
getbiomeinfo |
i will add lua mem info to that, to confirm |
| 19:09 |
getbiomeinfo |
i will look more into that |
| 19:10 |
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| 19:19 |
sfan5 |
est31: you don't seem to understand |
| 19:19 |
sfan5 |
"Fix various problems with sneaking" is not a series of changes |
| 19:19 |
sfan5 |
it is a single change |
| 19:20 |
sfan5 |
fall damage avoiding cannot be prevented without the 0.4 -> 0.29 change |
| 19:20 |
sfan5 |
sneak-jumps cannot be fixed without doing it |
| 19:21 |
sfan5 |
all of the changes non-bugfixing changes we're pretty much required to fix the bugs |
| 19:21 |
sfan5 |
I did not choose to break sneak ladders |
| 19:22 |
sfan5 |
it just came with fixing the other awful problems |
| 19:23 |
paramat |
btw i tested and +1 #4967 please can anyone review? very important PR |
| 19:23 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4967 -- New bulk node light update by juhdanad |
| 19:23 |
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| 19:39 |
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| 19:47 |
getbiomeinfo |
yep |
| 19:47 |
getbiomeinfo |
lua oom mem usage was at nearly 5GB... without hitting any limits |
| 19:51 |
getbiomeinfo |
oom word is not needed in sentence above |
| 19:53 |
getbiomeinfo |
too bad it is crashing :( |
| 20:26 |
getbiomeinfo |
ShadowNinja: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2988#issuecomment-285157827 |
| 20:27 |
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| 20:47 |
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| 20:48 |
juhdanad |
Hi all! |
| 20:48 |
juhdanad |
I need the help of somebody who worked on clent side modding. |
| 20:49 |
juhdanad |
What is the difference between ScriptApi and ModApi? |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
red-001: nerzhul: ^^ |
| 20:58 |
red-001 |
iirc one is the interface from c++ to lua for callbacks and the other is from lua to c++ |
| 21:02 |
red-001 |
yeah script api is c++ to lua and modapi is lua to c++ |
| 21:02 |
red-001 |
what are you planing to work on juhdanad ? |
| 21:03 |
juhdanad |
I tried to implement get_pointed_thing in lua but then I realized that there are no object references on the client. |
| 21:04 |
juhdanad |
And I did not understand why were there so many different ModApi and ScriptApi classes. |
| 21:05 |
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| 21:08 |
VanessaE |
sofar: if you have a moment? GreenDimond there needs a quick review of a mt_game PR he's submitted. |
| 21:08 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1609 |
| 21:10 |
VanessaE |
(or paramat or whoever else wants to look) |
| 21:10 |
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| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
(he's going over to a proper IRC client) |
| 21:12 |
sofar |
done |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
thanks. |
| 21:13 |
sofar |
I would just solve it outside of mtg, and in the mod |
| 21:15 |
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| 21:26 |
nerzhul |
juhdanad, ClientModApi is lighter than server because we don't need many things, but you are free to propose a PR on CSM branch. But as i said in a message on the PR i think we should merge it this weekend if no core dev has good reason as we have worked at to make it working with many securities and the API light but secure and we will add more callbacks depending on user needs |
| 21:29 |
juhdanad |
nerzhul: I'm also waiting for the merge! Then #4421 may have chance to be merged. |
| 21:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad |
| 22:09 |
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