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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-01-26

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Time Nick Message
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00:45 octacian sofar: kids 12-14 CAN'T write a for loop? :P
00:46 sofar for some it's clearly a struggle
00:46 octacian huh, well, Lua for loops are simple.
00:46 octacian ..And I'm 13 :
00:47 sofar wow, I didn't expect that
00:47 \o` nothing in Lua is simple because Lua has no formal specification :P
00:47 * sofar pleasantly surprised
00:47 octacian lol OldCoder was quite surprised as well
00:47 sofar octacian: you're 13 and you're on IRC and coding minetest with adults.
00:47 octacian yeah..?
00:47 sofar octacian: congratulations, I have a job for you in ... 5 years!
00:48 * OldCoder was not all that surprised
00:48 \o` nore was on at the same age
00:48 octacian :rotfl:
00:48 sofar I was coding at 13 too
00:48 octacian OldCoder: well, you acted surprised :P
00:48 OldCoder octacian, you told me you were a developer
00:49 sofar but I didn't know about IRC until it was invented :P
00:49 OldCoder It was natural to assume 20s
00:49 kaeza \o`, I'd argue that Lua is one of the simplest languages around
00:49 \o` kaeza, not for those of us who don't read
00:49 OldCoder Startled briefly when it turned out to be off by a decade
00:49 octacian OldCoder: https://endev.xyz (I think I can claim that validly..)
00:49 kaeza there's not much that can bite you in the back :P
00:49 octacian Yeah.
00:49 OldCoder octacian, link noted for later
00:49 \o` kaeza, what about that boolean 0 thing being true that you showed me
00:49 OldCoder octacian, nothing stops you from contributing patches to the core
00:50 \o` that wasn't very obvious
00:50 \o` it still isn't :D
00:50 octacian OldCoder: Haven't learned C++ yet. However, I've contributed one thing in builtin, and still have another PR open.
00:50 * OldCoder started going to early public computers between 1972 and 1973
00:50 OldCoder octacian, very well
00:50 kaeza \o`, true, but that...
00:50 kaeza can you pls stick with one nick? >:(
00:51 Zeno` I have now
00:51 Zeno` sorry
00:51 octacian :rotfl: was about to say that
00:51 Zeno` OldCoder made me do it
00:51 Zeno` but I am back onto one nick now
00:51 Zeno` I dunno. I think maybe I just think differently to Lua
00:52 Zeno` everything in Lua is a struggle for me. I am always fighting syntax :(
00:52 octacian huh, well, I'd personally say Lua is even simpler than JS, which I think is pretty easy.
00:52 kaeza ^
00:52 octacian I know Lua is like an extension of English to me.
00:52 Zeno` yes, but I think I must think "lower level". I dunno
00:53 Zeno` I know what to write, but syntax tricks me
00:53 sofar my uncle told me at age 13 that C64 BASIC was one of the easiest languages to learn
00:53 Zeno` sofar it is
00:53 * Zeno` went from c64 basic, to 6510 asm, to M68K asm, to C, to x86 asm
00:54 octacian you know, on that note, are there any good resources for learning c++?
00:54 kaeza Zeno`, syntax-related, the only thing that may bite you is the weird call function with a table or string thing
00:54 Zeno` (with fortran and cobol and stuff scattered in there after C)
00:54 sofar octacian: hack minetest core code :)
00:54 octacian sofar: thought so lol
00:55 sofar c64 basic, c64 asm, pascal, modula-2, C, C++(Visual C++), then back to bash, perl, and after that it gets fuzzy
00:55 octacian Soon as I finish rewriting a commit on which I spent about 10h then had my HDD fail seconds before pushing, I'll start messing around.
00:55 Zeno` kaeza, perhaps. I just don't use it enough is probably the larger problem
00:55 Zeno` I love modula-2 (still)
00:56 octacian Formspecs really need to be rewritten.. (it's what I'm fighting with now, textarea units are acting differently than those on other elements)
00:58 kaeza octacian, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3872
01:00 octacian kaeza: so, do you know what causes that? Guess that's my problem. Now my dad can quit telling me I'm doing something wrong lol
01:00 kaeza no idea, but it's a known problem everyone (and their dad, apparently) hates :P
01:01 octacian :rotfl:
01:01 octacian Again, formspecs should really just be rewritten. IDK as to how it should really be done though, tables wouldn't really be an improvement.
01:10 Zeno` we have been saying "formspecs should be rewritten" for the last 4 years
01:10 Zeno` wanna volunteer?
01:10 Zeno` SN suggested an XML type format IIRC
01:11 Zeno` Qt uses an XML-like format for their "forms" so it does seem reasonable
01:12 octacian Zeno`: I'll consider it :P
01:12 octacian XML wouldn't be bad..
01:12 Zeno` octacian, find ShadowNinja's PR/Suggestion first
01:12 octacian Saw that.
01:12 Zeno` it's there... somewhere
01:12 Zeno` ok
01:12 octacian Using tables, right?
01:13 kaeza the FS protocol and API are fine IMHO
01:13 Zeno` yes
01:13 octacian FS?
01:13 Zeno` so lots of fine suggestions
01:13 kaeza I don't mind using raw strings or tables or whatever, but that's not the problem
01:20 octacian It'd be nice if the not allowing to place CONTENT_IGNORE thing would just tell you that it was an invalid node.
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02:08 octacian Any further opinions on #4994? ( sofar? )
02:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4994 -- Clear Inventory Chatcommand (/clearinv) by octacian
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02:16 Zeno` hmm
02:17 Zeno` I'm ok with it in principle
02:17 Zeno` bit easier than pulverize
02:21 Zeno` why is it needed though?
02:22 Zeno` I mean the "other player" bit
02:24 octacian Zeno`:  what do you mean the "other player" bit? (sorry, was AFK)
02:24 Zeno` I can understand people wanting to clear their own inventory
02:24 octacian I see..
02:24 Zeno` but what is the use case for "description = "Can clear another player's inventory","
02:25 octacian I guess it's not really required, I imagine that a server owner might need to clear another players inv in some circumstances.
02:25 octacian Or just in general.
02:25 Zeno` I used to all the time when I had a server, but I'd just do it while the server was shutdown for backup
02:25 Zeno` hmm
02:26 Zeno` I'm not saying there is no use-case at all. Just that I can't think of one that's really 100% necessary
02:26 octacian Your saying in general or the ability to clear another's inv?
02:26 Zeno` another server op I know has their own mod already to clear a player's inventory
02:27 Zeno` I'm just not sure when it's useful that's all
02:27 octacian Yeah. Many do already, but it's not necessarily nice that they have to do it themselves.
02:27 Zeno` I'm not against it
02:27 octacian hmm
02:28 octacian I guess. The only use case I can really see would be for a player to clear their own inv, but again, a server op could need it.
02:28 Zeno` I'll think about it. It can probably stay
02:28 Zeno` yeah so maybe just require server privs
02:28 Zeno` instead of adding a new one?
02:28 Zeno` I dunno
02:28 octacian Personally, I think the killme thing should have had the ability to kill another player too.
02:29 octacian I had thought about just using the server priv.. reality is it'd probably be best.
02:29 Zeno` that's what I'd do. But *shrug*
02:29 octacian 'cause, I doubt anybody without the server priv will want to clear another's inventory
02:30 Zeno` it's not a big deal I guess
02:30 Zeno` yeah, I can't think why either
02:30 octacian hmmm, I think I'll change it to just require the server priv.
02:30 Zeno` ok
02:45 Zeno` octacian, should craft really be deleted as well?
02:46 octacian IDK, I think so.
02:46 octacian it's part of the inv
02:46 Zeno` e.g. in unified inventory I use the craft grid to store things I specifically don't want to be deleted
02:46 Zeno` this is tricky
02:46 octacian CHEATER! lol :P
02:46 Zeno` :D
02:46 octacian Yeah, I do the same.
02:47 octacian IRDK.. I would assume that if your clearing your inv, chances are you are in creative and are starting a new project or something, and you'd want the grid cleared. In survival, IRDK
02:47 Shara I would never want the grid cleared, even though I'd love a command to clear main inventory.
02:48 Zeno` I tend to agree with Shara I think
02:48 Shara I'll dump tools like screwdriver and so on I'm using for testing mods in the grid when using UI, before I clear inventory. Saves me searching for those things again.
02:48 Zeno` that's a good point
02:48 Zeno` hmm
02:48 octacian hmmm
02:49 Zeno` hmm
02:49 Zeno` lol
02:49 Shara So if this doesn't clear the crafting inv, I'd be able to use it when not using UI... which would be lovely. But if it clears all inventories, it's worth is gone for me.
02:49 octacian I mean, the crafting grid is only 9x9, it shouldn't be a problem to move stuff you don't want out of there assuming your aren't purposefully putting stuff there.
02:50 Shara Move to where?
02:50 octacian ^ made no sense.
02:50 octacian lol
02:50 Shara :D
02:50 octacian crafting is only 9x9, so if you actually wanted the stuff there cleared, I don't see that it'd be a problem to move to main.
02:50 Shara Yea.
02:51 Shara Not really worth typing a command to clear that, though a command to clear the main inv would be nice.
02:51 octacian Yeah.
02:51 octacian Well, what do you guys think? remove the line to clear crafting grid?
02:52 Shara I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd favour that.
02:52 Zeno` I think I prefer that. But I really don't know what other devs think
02:52 octacian Zeno`?
02:53 Zeno` this is why these kinds of PRs are hard to merge even though they're simple
02:53 Zeno` PITA I know
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02:53 octacian OK, well, I'd like another dev opinion cause I myself am undecided.
02:53 Zeno` well my opinion as a dev is that I'd prefer the grid to stay. So I would like a 3rd dev to look at it hehhe
02:54 octacian ..you mean 2nd?
02:54 Zeno` but in principle I +1 in after it's discussed
02:54 Zeno` well there is already one approval
02:54 octacian 'k
02:54 Zeno` I could add the second and merge
02:54 Zeno` but I will wait I think
02:54 octacian I'll update to PR by tomorrow.
02:55 Zeno` (no offense I hope, it's just that it's tricky)
02:55 Zeno` gameplay and mechanics stuff are always tricky
02:55 octacian will change to server priv and remove crafting grid
02:55 octacian Yep, it's all fine.
02:55 Zeno` ok thank you
02:56 Zeno` I'll put WIP label for now and remove it after updates (or get someone else to)
02:56 octacian Great.
02:56 octacian Why can't I get a branch to fetch.. ugh
02:57 Zeno` get a dog
02:57 octacian already have one
02:57 octacian lol
02:57 Zeno` and it doesn't fetch?
02:57 Zeno` silly pup
02:58 octacian Nope.
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03:04 Zeno` is #5114 windows only?
03:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5114 -- Fix after hardware node coloring by juhdanad
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06:05 nore Zeno`: wrong about me coding for mt at 13, I wasn't until I was 16 :p
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07:46 red-001 could someone review #5113?
07:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5113 -- [CSM] Add function to get the name of the player and functions to colour chat. by red-001
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10:51 paramat realised i can add nodebox stairs to desert dungeons too. also, dungeongen needs a minor fix
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12:57 juhdanad Do you know of mods that use voxel manipulators to modify the map but do not update light?
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13:09 nore juhdanad: well, you could take one that does update light and remove the corresponding code
13:10 nore (technic and tnt are two mods that use voxel manipulators outside of mapgen I think)
13:11 juhdanad I mean that #4967 always updates lighting, when something is written to the map.
13:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4967 -- New bulk node light update by juhdanad
13:11 juhdanad And such mods might become slower.
13:11 juhdanad How should I correct this?
13:13 juhdanad The only mod I know of is tnt in minetest_game. It creates two voxel manipulators, but only one (the larger) is updated.
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13:20 sfan5 juhdanad: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3346
13:20 sfan5 lighting calculation not being done can only happen at mapgen time
13:21 Fixer nrzkt: will client-side modding reduce available luajit ram or it will use another luajit instance for running client-side mods?
13:21 sfan5 Fixer: that doesn't matter, that address space is shared by all luajit instances
13:22 Fixer so i will get even more OOMs in singleplayer? :S
13:22 sfan5 yes
13:22 sfan5 an interesting thing to consider would be to make client-side scripting optional
13:23 sfan5 that would suck a lot for mod authors though
13:23 juhdanad sfan5: and what about the tnt mod? https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/blob/master/mods/tnt/init.lua#L293
13:24 sfan5 juhdanad: afaik the lighting is always updated for such voxelmanips
13:24 juhdanad No, it was not. The TNT mod works because an even bigger voxelmanip is written, ant the lighting is updated for that one.
13:26 sfan5 https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/​blob/master/worldedit/manipulations.lua#L575
13:26 sfan5 this code updates the lighting though
13:26 sfan5 i tested that
13:26 sfan5 the TNT mod doesn't call update_map huh
13:27 juhdanad Yes, this is what I wanted to ask.
13:30 nrzkt Fixer: you mean against mainmenu ?
13:31 nrzkt CSM is a pure standalone Lua instance, like server or mainmenu, it's normal
13:32 nrzkt CSM is purely optional, we will only port some CPP features to CSM builtin and offer an API, mods does what they want with API and are purely optionnal depending on each player,
13:32 paramat hm, so you're wondering about write-to-map being done without a need for lighting update, and your implementation moves lighting update from update map into write-to-map
13:32 paramat good point
13:33 paramat i've seen ore generation mods that use vm but don't do lighting updates because everything is underground
13:34 juhdanad I think that there are very few cases when you don't want to update lighting (not at mapgen time).
13:34 paramat true
13:34 paramat but the option is nice to have
13:35 paramat but hmm ..
13:36 paramat vms are often used to read the map, without writing
13:36 paramat but that wouldn't be a problem with your PR
13:36 juhdanad paramat: if you call write_to_map and update_map at the same time (what I did), lighting update can be faster.
13:37 paramat yes, which makes the change worth it
13:37 juhdanad (because Minetest can assume that the lighting is correct just before re-calculating it).
13:38 juhdanad And lighting is still faster after all... (see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/4967#issuecomment-269678518)
13:38 paramat yes i think i agree that it's rare to write to map without a lighting update
13:39 paramat wow
13:39 paramat i think i like your method then, the gains will outweigh any losses
13:39 paramat far outweigh
13:40 juhdanad I just swithced from recursion to iteration (which consumes more memory, but faster).
13:42 paramat i'm not sure the TNT mod needs to write to map the first time as it's only counting TNT nodes
13:43 Zeno` juhdanad, what's wrong with adding the asserts?
13:43 juhdanad Nothing! Just give me some minutes...
13:43 Zeno` I don't want to read code to see pre-conditions
13:43 Zeno` nobody does :)
13:44 Zeno` k
13:44 paramat if param1 (light) can cope with 255 is assert needed when light is always 0-15?
13:45 juhdanad param 1 contains night light (4 bits) and day light (4 bits).
13:45 paramat oops
13:47 paramat *:]
13:47 juhdanad Is that an "I have an idea" smiley?
13:50 Zeno` it's needed
13:50 Zeno` so we don't have to look at hundreds of lines of code
13:50 Zeno` it costs nothing for a release build
13:51 Zeno` and is good practice
13:51 nrzkt Zeno`: it costs a beer, it's the minimum
13:51 juhdanad Okay, I see (I'm just inverting *_light_incomplete).
13:52 Zeno` juhdanad, you don't have to do that if you don't agree with me. I just think that it's kind of strange (as I said... almost a double negative)
13:53 juhdanad I chose incomplete because this is when I actually have to do something. But complete makes more sense.
13:54 Zeno` I think so...
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13:58 paramat it's an embarrassment or explody-head smiley
13:59 paramat but could also be an idea smiley
14:01 juhdanad Successfully inverted, now re-debuggign...
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14:07 Fixer nrzkt: client-side mobs will be possible with CSM?
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14:12 juhdanad I just got this: WARNING[Main]: createPlayingSoundAt: out of memory
14:13 paramat any fire nearby?
14:13 sfan5 Fixer: why would you want client-side mobs
14:13 juhdanad Yes, a huge lawa cast.
14:14 juhdanad *lava
14:14 Fixer sfan5: less laggy :)
14:14 paramat lava cooling in huge amounts might do that
14:25 juhdanad Zeno`: pushed!
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14:37 paramat i support a height setting for #3956 any more opinions?
14:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3956 -- F10 console covers the entire viewport/screen
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14:40 juhdanad paramat: you can use the mouse wheel to roll the chat. If you rolled to the last entry, the char window should begin to roll upwards.
14:40 juhdanad *chat
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14:46 Shara I don't think the mouse wheel has anything to do with this.
14:46 Shara But unless anyone voices strong objections, will look at something for it.
14:47 onez` the point is that f10 opening a chat "screen" at full height of the monitor is stupid
14:47 onez` I have said this for a long time
14:47 onez` so has VanessaE
14:47 Shara It's one I have been wanting to work on.
14:47 onez` it's ridiculous
14:48 * VanessaE mumbles
14:48 onez` Shara, please work on it
14:48 onez` nobody sane liked the change in the first place
14:49 VanessaE imho both f10 and t / should just open a 1/4 to 1/3 height console and be done with it.
14:49 VanessaE i.e. make them all do the same thing
14:49 Shara I simply want an option for the old height.
14:49 * paramat just realises who onez is
14:50 Shara Which was 60%
14:50 Shara t also seems ridiculously tiny to me, but then I never use it.
14:51 onez` 60% is what is was before?
14:51 Shara Yes
14:51 onez` ok, put it back
14:51 Shara Put it back or make it an option?
14:51 onez` either
14:51 onez` I don't care if it's an option but I don't care if it's just 60% hard coded either
14:52 onez` I've always hated this change
14:52 Shara I expect people would groan/moan/shake fists if it was simply reverted now, because people get used to things.
14:52 Shara And people with small screens might love it...
14:52 Shara So I think option is better.
14:52 onez` yeah well, option is easy enough to add
14:53 Shara Will look at it then.
14:53 onez` thanks
14:54 paramat yeah a setting has support
14:55 juhdanad Could someone review #5114 to prevent compiler warnings? (6 lines)
14:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5114 -- Fix after hardware node coloring by juhdanad
14:56 onez` juhdanad, how about I just merge it?
14:56 onez` if there are no objections I will in 10 minutes
14:57 juhdanad That would cause conflicts amongst devs...
14:57 onez` would it? We don't have conflicts!
14:58 onez` none of us compile using MSVC
14:58 onez` on Linux it makes no apparent difference
14:58 onez` so it's trivial imo
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15:00 onez` paramat, any objections?
15:00 paramat looking
15:01 juhdanad (I meant that you will argue again that someone merged something without asking others)
15:01 paramat seems ok to me
15:01 onez` I did ask though :)
15:01 onez` ok paramat I'll merge in 10 mins
15:01 paramat +1
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15:06 paramat onez` please could you add your approval to the PR so it looks approved?
15:10 onez` merging now
15:13 paramat thanks
15:14 juhdanad Me thanks! I should have been more cautious.
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15:45 paramat #5122 is fairly trivial might merge later
15:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5122 -- Dungeongen: Fix selection of diagonal corridors by paramat
15:48 paramat now to add stairs to desert dungeons i need to add a mapgen alias to mtgame
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15:59 paramat game#1529
15:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1529 -- Dungeons: Add mapgen alias for desert stone stairs by paramat
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16:20 paramat sfan5 and all. ok with stairs in desert stone dungeons too? #5102 updated
16:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5102 -- Dungeons: Add nodebox stairs to desert and sandstone dungeons by paramat
16:21 juhdanad Yes, it would be good.
16:47 paramat game#1528 can anyone approve? then i'll merge it later
16:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1528 -- Fix smooth lighting by numberZero
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16:49 paramat later i'd like to merge games 1479 1528 1529
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17:05 sofar it does add one more face to the model
17:06 juhdanad Yes, to make interpolatio correct.
17:06 juhdanad *interpolation
17:07 sofar was there a problem with the geometry?
17:07 juhdanad I don't think so.
17:07 sofar paramat: :+1: for game1528 from me
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17:25 juhdanad VanessaE: the paint API is done, any suggestions are welcome. game#1530
17:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1530 -- Add paint API by juhdanad
17:26 VanessaE juhdanad: I'm already working on something like that
17:26 VanessaE see unified dyes
17:27 VanessaE (or rather, I have a working implementation; I'm working on making coloredwoods mod work right)
17:27 paramat ok
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17:39 red-001 could someone review #5071?
17:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5071 -- Rename functions in the minetest namespace to be more consistent. by red-001
17:51 paramat will merge games 1479 1528 1529 in a moment
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17:58 paramat merging to game
17:58 red-001 hi nrzkt
18:01 nrzkt hi red-001
18:03 nrzkt red-001, does chat colorization works in #5113 ?
18:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5113 -- [CSM] Add function to get the name of the player and functions to colour chat. by red-001
18:04 paramat merged
18:06 red-001 it should but I don't have the correct dependences to test it
18:06 nrzkt red-001, what is missing ?
18:07 red-001 not sure, I think it's freetype
18:07 nrzkt you don't have freetype ?
18:09 red-001 it's that or gettext
18:10 red-001 huh I could add freetype, I have a copy of it but I don't have it set in cmake
18:20 * red-001 gives up and decides run an x-server on windows 10 is easier
18:21 * red-001 meant to say "running" instead of "run"
18:27 red-001 well that worked
18:30 nrzkt red-001, can you provide an example and a screenshot on PR ?
18:30 red-001 sure as soon as it finishes building
18:34 nrzkt oh ! i found a duplicate code on server side mod loading
18:35 nrzkt seems we check world.mt mods before loading and do exactly same thing when loading
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18:43 paramat any objections to updated #5102 ? will merge with #5122 in 2 hours
18:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5102 -- Dungeons: Add nodebox stairs to desert and sandstone dungeons by paramat
18:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5122 -- Dungeongen: Fix selection of diagonal corridors by paramat
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19:36 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/1367#issuecomment-275489654
19:36 sofar #1367 idea to implement
19:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1367 -- Proper display of text on the surface of a node(box)
19:36 sofar any takers? bounty!
19:37 sofar VanessaE: your comments welcome since you opened that one originally
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19:39 VanessaE seems like a good start
19:43 VanessaE I think as long as the node type doesn't matter (e.g. a mesh should work the same as a block), then I think you've covered everything
19:43 DFeniks joined #minetest-dev
19:44 VanessaE except, "Note: we should only ever use monospaced fonts"  signs_lib uses proportional fonts.
19:44 Thomas-S joined #minetest-dev
19:45 sofar I don't want to go there
19:45 VanessaE (though the size scalar can make up for the extra space needed for a mono font)
19:45 sofar everyone can understand how simple placing monospaced characters in a grid is
19:46 VanessaE yup
19:46 sofar with non-monospaced, you won't ever know if stuff people wrote will fit beforehand
19:46 VanessaE agreed
19:46 sofar could be 25 characters or 88 with proportional
19:46 VanessaE it was only a minor point
19:46 sofar iiiiiiiiii :)
19:46 VanessaE WWWWW :)
19:47 sofar I do want a few fonts, though, in the end, to be included
19:47 sofar and they can be large for all I care
19:47 sofar not sure how to handle that
19:47 sofar http://txt.static.1001fonts.net/charmap/tt​f/0/pc-senior.regular.character-map-1.png
19:47 sofar http://txt.static.1001fonts.net/charmap/t​tf/0/november.regular.character-map-1.png
19:47 sofar those are great
19:48 VanessaE the first one reminds me of the old VGA ANSI font
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20:12 paramat will merge 5102 5122 in a moment
20:23 paramat merging to engine
20:24 nrzkt #5102 #5122
20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5102 -- Dungeons: Add nodebox stairs to desert and sandstone dungeons by paramat
20:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5122 -- Dungeongen: Fix selection of diagonal corridors by paramat
20:28 paramat merged
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20:31 paramat the smooth-lit nodeboxes are stunning, i've been standing in dungeons in a state of shock from seeing stairs that actually look part of the world
20:31 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
20:37 sofar same experience for me, I swear I don't recognize scenes anymore
20:38 paramat 0.4.15 was a great release but already we have made huge improvements, light curve, smooth lighting and hopefully soon most lighting bugs fixed
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20:57 nrzkt is this me or github bugs ?
20:57 nrzkt https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5123
20:57 nrzkt i opened this PR 2 Mins ago
20:57 sofar haha
20:58 rubenwardy lol
20:58 rubenwardy not a bug - he commented on the commits which are days old
20:58 sfan5 nrzkt: nope not a bug
20:59 nrzkt sfan5, it's very strange, why sfan5 comment is on this PR as it's not this PR ?
20:59 sfan5 the minetest:client_side_modding branch does not have those commits so it shows them when you try to merge into it
20:59 sfan5 the comment is on a commit in your pr
20:59 nrzkt yes i will rebase master -> csm now and csm -> mypr
20:59 sfan5 not on the pr itself
20:59 nrzkt very strange behaviour
20:59 rubenwardy could use a git pull --rebase
20:59 nrzkt not very natural
20:59 rubenwardy oh, ^^^^
21:00 nrzkt rubenwardy, pull rebase is useless as CSM branch upstream need rebase
21:00 sfan5 you will need to rebase your pr onto minetest:client_side_modding as it seems to have history differences
21:00 rubenwardy pull rebase on the branch, not the pr
21:00 nrzkt no need to pull rebase, seems you don't understand rebase != pull rebase :p
21:00 rubenwardy meh
21:00 sfan5 and you definitely need to keep the fixes from master out of the csm branch
21:01 nrzkt yeah better, that's good now with everything up to date
21:02 nrzkt this PR add clientmods loading
21:02 nrzkt i moved prview.lua from builtin to a preview mod to show all works properly as intended
21:03 nrzkt i reused our ModConfiguration class to make it an interface for both server and client, sharing massively code
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21:04 nrzkt + little code cleanups, sfan5 if you get time to review to fix that point in #5088
21:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5088 -- Client side scripting/modding by nerzhul
21:09 nrzkt sfan5, nore onez` rubenwardy sofar #5123 is ready to review for a merge in CSM branch
21:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5123 -- [CSM] Implement client side mods loading by nerzhul
21:10 nrzkt one thing i want with CSM branch is stop working in the branch when security is sufficient, and retrieve the old minetest master workflow, permitting to have better user base and maybe more PR :)
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21:16 sofar nrzkt: so that loads client side mods from ~/.minetest/clientmods/ right?
21:17 sofar I don't see it send mods from the server to the client?
21:17 nrzkt sofar, shared_dir atm, but it's easily modifiable in ClientModConfiguration to add paths, and this is a good idea
21:17 sofar why does it need to parse world.mt?
21:17 nrzkt sofar, it's not the goal of this PR, the goal is to have pure client side mod in this pr
21:17 nrzkt it doesn't
21:18 nrzkt where did you see it ? warning, i added child class for server and client in ModConfiguration to split the loading locations
21:18 rubenwardy true client side modding requires subgames/server mods to be able to send code - but it's okay to leave that for later
21:18 rubenwardy which is the plan it seems
21:18 sofar ok, just making sure i understand how far along this code is getting
21:19 nrzkt rubenwardy, making things work properly and after adding features, 5088 is a huge PR atm, adding more things could be done before release after 5088 merge
21:19 nrzkt but things should be well discussion and think as it's a very waited feature, and we will need a CSM modstore, it's mandatory
21:20 nrzkt a model like ansible galaxy could be interesting, using github repository to fetch mods
21:20 rubenwardy I'm working on a mod store again, and it supports client mods
21:20 nrzkt okay, whihc language
21:21 rubenwardy NodeJS/ES6 due to good support
21:21 nrzkt arf
21:21 nrzkt nodejs :(
21:22 rubenwardy I quite like Flask, but I don't like Python as much as es6
21:22 nrzkt hopefully modstore will not need high traffic
21:22 nrzkt flask is very lightweight and easy to use :)
21:22 rubenwardy python though
21:22 nrzkt and nodejs required thousands of library to do a real thing...
21:23 nrzkt like this: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-nan
21:23 rubenwardy you don't need to use that
21:23 nrzkt or this: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-positive
21:23 nrzkt xD
21:23 rubenwardy every language is used wrong in some way
21:23 Fixer IE6 support? nice
21:23 nrzkt Fixer, no, netscape navigator 6
21:24 nrzkt rubenwardy, i don't talk about you, but about maintainer of libs you need :(
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21:24 nrzkt rubenwardy, with new modstore can we register mods ourselves ? and is there any rating ? some moderation ?
21:24 nrzkt ourselves = users
21:24 nrzkt where are modstore specs ? it's a very very very critical feature with CSM
21:26 nrzkt sofar, i added misssing path_user/clientmods
21:26 nrzkt it's now supported
21:26 nrzkt path_share + path_user :)
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21:32 nrzkt this is a good one: https://www.npmjs.com/package/mkdirp
21:32 rubenwardy ...fs
21:32 nrzkt 1M download per day for a recursive mkdir :p
21:32 rubenwardy there is the fs library for that
21:32 nrzkt 8671 libs depends on it :p
21:33 sfan5 rubenwardy: make sure to use left-pad
21:33 nrzkt sfan5, exact :p
21:34 rubenwardy this project uses C++, yet you don't like Nodejs
21:36 nrzkt use libmicrohttpd + jsoncpp and apache :p
21:37 nrzkt my IRC bot uses that to read github/gitlab hooks :p
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21:45 nrzkt i will squash some common author commits in CSM branch to reduce the branch footprint on rebases, squashing 2 red-001 commits and 3 of mine
21:49 red-001 ok
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21:52 nrzkt sfan5, sofar and red-001 (why not you help us :) ) please review at #5123 or add comments to permit merging :)
21:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5123 -- [CSM] Implement client side mods loading by nerzhul
21:56 red-001 I would prefer for the client sided mods to be in /client/mods
21:57 sofar nrzkt: attempting to focus on actual paid work atm ;)
21:57 red-001 not that I mind too much
21:57 nrzkt it's possible, but what do you want to add in client folder except mods ?
21:58 nrzkt sofar, i hope you will share pair work with us as we do many things to make this possible
21:58 sofar I wish :)
21:58 nrzkt sofar, and i need your review & approval on 5123 instead of adding more and more PR to this pr
21:59 sofar well I've been going over it a few times, just not enough to feel confident
21:59 sofar i mean, it looks squeekie clean already to me
21:59 sofar but that means I got to actually read it
21:59 sofar :)
21:59 red-001 well the client folder already exists and if some sort of data storage api is added to the client it could be in another folder in /client
21:59 nrzkt squeekie ? what is that
22:00 nrzkt google translate it in french with squeeze... and that doesn't mean anything in french xD
22:01 red-001 squeekie clean means very clean
22:01 nrzkt thanks for the translation :p
22:01 nrzkt strange word
22:01 red-001 it's a figure of speech
22:01 sofar it's like when you clean something so well, it squeeks when you rub it afterwards
22:02 red-001 ^
22:02 nrzkt okay :p
22:09 rom1504 http://www.urbandictionary.c​om/define.php?term=squeekie
22:14 nore nrzkt: #5123 looks good to me, but I haven't tested it
22:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5123 -- [CSM] Implement client side mods loading by nerzhul
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22:35 paramat in the UK we say squeaky clean, spelt 'squeak'
22:38 sofar nrzkt: for( if( ... lines 308, 328, 332
22:38 sofar yawn, I can't see anything wrong with the code but really, I don't know this part of the core that well
22:38 sofar nrzkt: +1 otherwise
22:39 nrzkt sofar, you mean here ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5123/​files#diff-516797c75a56873a5d67ac35f5bbef2dR308
22:39 sofar yeah that section
22:40 nrzkt it's a pure move from ModConfiguration to ServerModConfiguration, algo is strictly same
22:40 sofar yes, but you should fix it up anyway :)
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22:43 nrzkt code style or something else ?
22:46 rubenwardy code style
22:46 rubenwardy <sofar> nrzkt: for( if( ... lines 308, 328, 332
22:46 sofar yes, just code style
22:47 nrzkt okay i'm fixing it
22:51 nrzkt sofar, fixed
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23:02 nrzkt i have a politics question, if CSM is merged and fully operational for next release, can we bump to 0.5 ? it's a real improvement :)
23:03 nrzkt or maybe remove the first 0 and call it 5.0 :)
23:03 sofar only if you change the coordinate system to be 64bit per axis
23:03 rubenwardy we're basically using semvar with a 0. in front
23:03 sofar I want to build worlds as large as the universe
23:03 nrzkt 32b mapblocks coords too ? :p
23:04 nrzkt 64b is very huge yes :p
23:04 sofar that doesn't work?
23:04 nrzkt atm we are stuck on a u16
23:04 sofar yup
23:04 nrzkt and no that doesn't work out of the box, it breaks many things, especially in net protocol
23:04 sofar yes
23:04 nrzkt and maybe the map serialization
23:04 sofar yes
23:06 nrzkt fucking u16
23:06 nrzkt celeron55, is this you ??
23:06 nrzkt :p
23:07 celeron55 well for where minetest started, it could be u8
23:07 nrzkt u8 ! ow
23:07 * sofar snickers
23:07 nrzkt stuck in a tiny room
23:07 sofar "virtually endless"
23:07 celeron55 don't fret so much you silly
23:07 rubenwardy "almost nearly infinite"
23:08 nrzkt u64 powa
23:08 sofar also, for 0.5, I request a better name
23:08 nrzkt minetest-finite ? :p
23:09 celeron55 how about instead of requesting things just doing things
23:09 nrzkt 0.5 is good for a big feature but breaking things can wait after CSM i think
23:09 rubenwardy Map size is mostly dick waving, anyway
23:09 celeron55 the 16-bit map size is perfectly fine; you can only use like 1% of the coordinate space anyway before your disk fills up
23:10 nrzkt C++11 could be very good also :(
23:10 nrzkt celeron55, this is wrong, especially because of comrpssion, on my server i ask MT to generate all mapblocks it takes 14GB in my pgsql intance
23:10 rubenwardy well, currently surface space is more valuable than the whole 31,000 - but still, in singleplayer it's pretty good
23:11 celeron55 nrzkt: so how much more do you want it to take?
23:11 sofar currently you can't convert e.g. westeros
23:11 nrzkt rubenwardy, you can go to world end in less than 1 month of regular playing
23:11 sofar since it's too large for MT
23:11 sofar so, it's certainly limiting for some players
23:12 nrzkt celeron55, i don't want to take all disk ,as it's not possible to generate all, but generating 32b map permit to virtually have infinity of mapblocks if player goes forward
23:12 sofar I calculated once that it would take less than 5hrs of play time to walk from -32k to +32k
23:12 nrzkt i already saw some players who goes to map limits on my server (and this make server crash sometimes as it's not very well handled
23:12 rubenwardy yeah - that's pretty much the only reason I'd want larger maps, to allow world building like that
23:13 rubenwardy Although, personally, I think Minetest has bigger problems than map size, however :P
23:13 sofar 27 days of game days :)
23:13 celeron55 well, go ahead and change it and measure performance; we'll see
23:13 nrzkt minecraft has larger map and better performance atm
23:13 nrzkt not only in rendering
23:14 celeron55 is that news to someone
23:14 nrzkt no, but that mean we can enhance our code :p
23:16 nrzkt i'm off, see you :)
23:16 nrzkt thanks sofar for the review
23:17 celeron55 switching the versioning to 5.0 is ok to me
23:18 celeron55 it's a good single opportunity to gather some attention - which means: do it when there is something to see
23:19 celeron55 if client-side scripting or something similar is merged into master for a release, that's a big enough thing
23:19 sofar that and the lighting by itself
23:19 celeron55 it would be wasteful not to ask for some extra attention
23:21 red-001 Well I guess all the people that want 0.5 will finally get their wish fulfilled
23:24 rubenwardy I agree with that
23:25 garywhite So wait, MT is going to 0.5.0?
23:25 sofar it seems people want it to
23:25 sofar and nobody opposes
23:28 garywhite But #4528 should probably be fixed cause some people might be uneasy with ZIP files, i.e. my security program automatically tells me an EXE is safe or not, but not a ZIP.
23:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4528 -- minetest 0.4.14 64bit crashes at startup on Windows 10 Pro 64bit: debug.txt permissions/path problem
23:30 sofar we just need a windows developer who can make a decent installer work for us, I think
23:31 garywhite Hmm...What about telling it to install to My Documents?
23:31 garywhite In M$ Virtual PC, your VMs default to a folder in My Documents
23:31 garywhite & that was designed for XP/Vista
23:32 red-001 well it shouldn't be that hard
23:33 red-001 just make a special build for windows install that uses diffrent paths
23:33 garywhite & My Documents has no UAC read/write issues
23:33 garywhite Like Program Files does
23:34 rubenwardy It would be better for Minetest to do Windows properly
23:34 red-001 ^
23:34 rubenwardy and be able to be installed to program files
23:34 Calinou use the semi-standard C:\Games as a last resort
23:34 rubenwardy that way it can be installed in bulk, eg in schools
23:34 garywhite rubenwardy: True, but as a temporary fix
23:34 Calinou it's better if it goes to %PROGRAMFILES% though :)
23:35 rubenwardy currently C://Games/Minetest is the default install dir
23:35 red-001 doesn't this already work correctly on linux/unix?
23:35 rubenwardy yes
23:35 red-001 this sounds like an easy fix
23:36 garywhite Or for that matter, do it the Win95 way and just install to C:\Minetest
23:38 sofar do it right, or don't do it at all
23:38 red-001 ^
23:38 sofar let's not half half it
23:38 Calinou C:\MINETEST\MINETEST.EXE
23:38 Calinou this is actually 8.3 :)
23:39 garywhite Yeah, but is there a MT dev who works with WIN and knows how to work with installers?
23:39 rubenwardy There is an installer
23:39 rubenwardy I used to make one
23:39 rubenwardy I just lost access to windows
23:39 rubenwardy It just installs to C://games/ to avoid this problem
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23:40 garywhite Why'd you lose Windows access?
23:41 rubenwardy I blame UEFI
23:41 rubenwardy Although it's probably my fault
23:41 rubenwardy I corrupted my Windows partition
23:41 garywhite No backup disc?
23:41 rubenwardy or at least the MBR
23:41 rubenwardy Haven't got around to fixing it
23:42 garywhite VM works too
23:44 sofar I could test it plenty, but I have no idea how to make one
23:44 garywhite winworldpc.com has all versions of Windows from 1.0 to 2000 because MS doesn't care about them anymore
23:48 rubenwardy sofar: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/5397343
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