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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-01-17

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03:55 Hijiri why can't I see red-001 in the userlist
03:55 Hijiri I didn't see a leave message
03:55 Hijiri is this some IRC feature I didn't know about
03:57 Hijiri maybe my client is selectively hiding joins/quits (because I see some other quits)
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09:33 Zeno` lol paramat
09:33 Zeno` do you know how much grief hmmmm gave RBA?
09:34 VanessaE paramat doesn't like to talk on IRC.  he's a chickenshit ;)
09:35 Zeno` I'm sure he sees the conversation ;)
09:46 juhdanad Please don't hurt him. He is right, I should make lights better.
09:47 VanessaE juhdanad: no one wants to hurt him, but he's just as fair a target in here as anyone else is...and I speak as someone who used to get a lot of shit here.
09:47 VanessaE in other words, if I had to grow a thicker skin, then so does he.
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14:41 nrzkt merging #5047
14:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5047 -- Improve priv descriptions by Ezhh
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16:46 Thomas-S 2f56a00d9eef82052614e5854a07b39b087efd0b seems to be backwards incompatible: Older Minetest clients see their chat messages twice.
16:47 red-001 how old is your client?
16:47 sfan5 older = ?
16:48 sfan5 incompatibility between dev versions happens very rarely but is not a bug
16:49 nrzkt Thomas-S: protocol v29 declared client only will not receive messages
16:49 nrzkt sorry, will receive
16:50 Thomas-S ok
16:50 red-001 anything older than 52ba1f867e5edb579a59a44fbb8286d4f1e54931 should work correctly
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18:00 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5045 Added screenshots to show what this new modifier can do
18:03 juhdanad This is similar to multiplication.
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18:04 red-001 "<Hijiri> why can't I see red-001 in the userlist" maybe your client doesn't show people timing out?
18:04 sapier hmm could be true aybe the result would be even better if I tried multiplying it
18:07 sapier multiplication would be (255*255 / color * color ) *255 right?
18:08 sapier or better c1/255 * c2/255
18:08 juhdanad sapier: dst.r=src.r*dst.r/255
18:08 sapier *255
18:09 sapier ok too simple :-)
18:09 sapier thanks :-)
18:09 juhdanad My hardware coloring PR also uses multiplication.
18:10 sapier yes I heared about it but it can't be used for entities
18:11 juhdanad That's true. (for now...)
18:11 sapier that's what I actually need it for ... not wool nodes but wool still attached to sheep ;)
18:12 sapier ok multiplication result is identicaly to what I did (at least for my eyes)
18:12 juhdanad sapier: only if you paint originally white texture!
18:13 sapier true but that's what I did target anyway
18:14 sapier so better use something well known doing what I want it to do then something special noone expects
18:18 VanessaE sapier: I wonder if it wouldn't be better to wedge in a variation on [colorize instead of calling it [paint
18:18 VanessaE (like maybe prefix the color with "M" or something)
18:18 VanessaE (to imply "multiply")
18:19 sapier well by now it's not been multilication and I just changed it to be that way ... renaming it from paint to multiply while doing so
18:19 VanessaE oh ok
18:20 sapier but as always I don't bother that much about names if someone does suggest a better one
18:20 VanessaE just thinking of how it's called in GIMP :)
18:21 sapier gimp can do this?
18:21 sapier nice to know :-)
18:21 VanessaE <right click> Colors -> Colorize
18:22 sapier I wonder why this isn't already part of minetest imho the multiplication way of applying colors to textures has way more uses then the current colorize style
18:22 VanessaE which as far as my eyes can tell, does a multiply between the image and the HSL
18:22 juhdanad Colorize is not multiplication.
18:23 juhdanad (in GIMP).
18:23 sapier well the colors used in wool mod don't seem to exactly bee what they're named too ;-)
18:24 VanessaE juhdanad: it isn't?  then I withdraw my comment.
18:24 sapier looking at the sceenshots I added to the pull you see some do match quite fine to what results from multiplication others are way off
18:25 sapier especially strange is grey and dark gray for some reason those are inverted
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18:27 sapier hopefully get_velocity is just an alias for getvelocity :-/
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18:34 sapier @rubenwardy are you crazy?
18:34 sapier changing api functions present for years without adding aliases?
18:35 est31 sapier, which commit
18:35 sapier 63c892eedfe21cbca2e2369d28e5e4d4e62ca1bd
18:36 sapier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/63c892eedfe21cbca2e2369d28e5e4d4e62ca1bd
18:36 sfan5 it adds aliases?
18:36 est31 yes
18:36 sapier but doesn't seem to work
18:36 est31 what is the error
18:37 est31 is it a deprecation error
18:37 sapier let me check if it's just the one missing
18:37 est31 (I'm not sure whether it adds a deprecation error)
18:37 sfan5 (it doesn't)
18:37 est31 it should
18:37 sapier attempt to call method 'settexturemod' (a nil value)
18:37 est31 otherwise everybody will think they are fine, nobody will change
18:38 sapier doesn't sound like deprecation only
18:38 est31 sapier, that looks like a genuine error then
18:38 est31 the commit wrongly assumes the old name to be set_texturemod
18:38 est31 while it is settexturemod
18:39 sapier ahh @rubenwardy I appologize, should've looked at it more carefull
18:39 est31 it should be easy to fix
18:39 sapier true
18:40 sapier I'm pushing the fix directly
18:41 est31 okay
18:42 est31 I had been preparing one myself
18:42 est31 but you shoudl do it
18:42 est31 should*
18:42 sfan5 sapier: also nobody would have approved that if it didn't having working aliases
18:43 sapier seems so :-) guess I still have in mind how things have been some time ago ... obviously some things have improved
18:45 est31 yeah, more people are convinced of backwards compat
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18:45 sapier can someone explain to me why I always end up doing engine work when I just want to do mobf?
18:45 est31 xD
18:46 sfan5 because the engine is lacking
18:47 sapier ok pushed the fix, hope the commit message is ok that way
18:47 est31 it is okay
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19:01 sapier seems juhdanad has a return value by parameter fetish ;-)
19:02 juhdanad Is it bad?
19:03 sapier depends ;-)
19:03 juhdanad Feel free to comment and/or contribute to my work.
19:04 sapier I didn't want to offend you, you're doing very good work for what I've seen by now
19:05 juhdanad In fact I'm not a professional programmer, I have not learned how to format C++ code properly.
19:05 sapier it's not a bad thing to provide results by parameters often it's a tradeoff between readability and speed
19:07 sapier and believe me if you do ask multiple "professional programmers" you'll get completely different answers on a lot of topics too ... including this topic
19:07 sapier there's a reason why it's called "art of computer programming" ;-)
19:08 Krock and that's why there are code style guidelines and other instructions to follow
19:08 sapier true but even within these guidelines there's quite some room ;-)
19:12 sapier great I just discovered the new profiler :-)
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20:49 red-001 updated #4962
20:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4962 -- Save the name of the world in world.mt and remove invalid characters from the directory name by red-001
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21:22 rubenwardy #4806
21:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4806 -- Add search to advanced settings by rubenwardy
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22:28 rubenwardy #5064
22:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5064 -- Add minetest.player_exists() by rubenwardy
22:41 red-001 could someone review #4468 ?
22:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4468 -- Load textures from the subfolders in texturepacks. by red-001
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22:51 sofar red-001: you've got one comment from hmmmm open in that pr
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22:59 zorman2000 sapier, while you are at it (doing engine work), it would be awesome if minetest.find_path() could be improved.
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23:02 sapier1 well for what I have read there's a controversity what it's supposed to do right now it's been changed to something I didn't intend when writing first version
23:02 sapier1 before this ain't settled I see no use in improving anything
23:03 zorman2000 It is sad that is the state of thing. I tried using the function in many cases and in all of them just got nil
23:04 zorman2000 I ended up using a Lua implementation of A*, but I was only able to do it in 2D, so it works on flat terrain
23:04 zorman2000 It would be great to have a 3D built-in implementation
23:05 sapier1 I haven't tried it for quite some time, initially it was able do to exactly what you did in lua
23:05 sapier1 in fact my first implementation was done in lua
23:06 sapier1 it's never been thought to do 3d pathfinding for a very basic reason
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23:06 sapier1 it'd not be usefull in 3d at all as it'd have to handle collision boxes too and those are completely broken within minetest
23:07 sapier1 right now minetest can't even rotate collisionboxes
23:07 zorman2000 I agree on that. I have had the same issue. My solution has been to define a set of "walkable" nodes to go around that
23:08 sapier1 which of the felt 200 reinventions of mobs have you written? ;-)
23:09 zorman2000 Actually still working on it. It is a WIP NPC mod.
23:09 zorman2000 I want them to automatically go to places so first thing I saw was minetest.find_path()... and well, that didn't help at all
23:09 sapier1 funny ... if only half of the ppl writing their own mobs would've joined mobf development we'd have ki mobs in between
23:10 zorman2000 It is sad for the great fragmentation in mods. I look forward to see activity again in mobf.
23:10 zorman2000 Might get involved at some point
23:11 sapier1 btw in mobf sheep for example look for grass around find a path to it and walk there
23:11 sofar the problem is that all the "frameworks" are templates
23:11 sofar not actual frameworks
23:11 sapier1 not true
23:11 sapier1 mof supports configuration as well as customization
23:12 sofar customization is still template
23:12 sofar configuration doesn't mean it's actually a nice API to do something completely different with
23:12 sapier1 what's your definition of framework
23:13 zorman2000 sapier, many mob frameworks has some kind of path-finding, but most of it (at least all mobs_redo and everything based on it) do a on_step() pathfinding, and I didn't wanted that
23:13 sofar something where if I wanted to write some custom new code to do one small change that I don't need to copy 300 lines of default mob behavior
23:13 sapier1 sofar you don't have to do this in mobf
23:13 sofar or somehow magically know about 20 flags and params
23:13 sapier1 you don't have to do that either
23:14 zorman2000 sapier, did you got to do documentation for mobf?
23:14 sapier1 basic set of parameters for a mobf mob is about ... hmmm lets say 20 including the model and texture specification
23:14 sapier1 well documentation is the big point
23:14 sapier1 there's a doc for a very simple mob
23:14 sapier1 most more complex things are not explicitly described but there's a sample mob for almost everything
23:15 zorman2000 I see. When I finish my mod, I might actually take a look at the code and see if I can come up with some documentation
23:16 sapier1 https://github.com/sapier/animals_​modpack/wiki/Mob-creation-tutorial most simple mob you can create
23:16 zorman2000 I have always though mobf has big potential but myself I have been unable to use easily
23:16 zorman2000 use it*
23:16 sapier1 btw it's 13 parameters
23:16 sapier1 ok that mob just will stand there and not move at all :-)
23:17 sapier1 making it move random is about 5-10 additional parameters
23:17 sapier1 or specifying one single callback if you want to implement the movement yourself
23:18 sapier1 but I agree missing documentation is a big issue in mobf
23:18 zorman2000 I see. So you can define states. Well that is really good in my opinion
23:19 zorman2000 It gives a lot of flexibility
23:19 sapier1 yes you can attach a specific visual to a state too but don't have to then default states visual is used
23:20 zorman2000 Yes I see. That is cool
23:21 zorman2000 Do you plan to further develop mobf?
23:21 sapier1 in folder mobf_core/doc/ there's a file called mob_template.lua I use it do document all config parameters a mob definition may have
23:22 sapier1 right now I'm rewriting the probabilistic movement generator ... (almost done) ... I finally accepted my approach of using acceleration to generate movement doesn't work well for ground bound animals
23:25 sapier1 I hope to fix one of the main complains "jumpy mobs" ;-)
23:27 zorman2000 Ohh, nice, so that's where the parameters are defined!
23:28 zorman2000 Well, they didn't moved so bad either, but yeah, could use improvement
23:28 sapier1 well not defined just written in a way my automatic documentation generator provides readable output
23:28 zorman2000 Heh, at least is some kind of hint
23:28 zorman2000 What is this probabilistic movement generator?
23:29 sapier1 any state can have a movement generator attached to it. probabilistic movement generator is the one generating some random pattern
23:29 sapier1 well it makes sure mob stays within his "habitat" doesn't drop or drown ... things like that
23:30 zorman2000 That is indeed a needed feature
23:30 sapier1 the habitat is what you specify with "envid"
23:31 zorman2000 I remember having chickens going very far away and falling into water and dying
23:31 sapier1 Well I spent a lot of time making the movgen try to avoid this
23:32 sapier1 When I recently implemented water flow to have an effect on mobf mobs It's been difficult to get them into water they always did jump out way to soon
23:33 sapier1 or drown
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23:34 zorman2000 It is good to see you back and still willing to maintain that mod. It really has potential
23:36 sapier1 well I don't believe it's gonna reduce the amount of mob mods but to be honest I don't see a reason to reimplement all those things I already fixed in other mob implementations
23:36 sapier1 I might have a look at my simple_mobs converter I remember it was able to use 90% of all simple mobs without even changing their definition
23:37 sapier1 converter isn't correct it didn't convert them it just ran them ... so actualy some sort of emulator
23:38 zorman2000 That is the current state of things with mobs_redo, which is actually some improvement to simple_mobs
23:38 zorman2000 Most mob mods actually use mobs_redo
23:38 zorman2000 Not all of them though
23:38 zorman2000 But from what I see mobf definetely has more features than mobs_redo
23:38 sapier1 yes but for mobs_redo and simplemobs what sofar said is really true those are really template
23:38 sapier1 s
23:38 zorman2000 That's right
23:39 sapier1 mobf from the beginning was designed to just create a simple mob definition and then use or don't use the features mobf provides
23:40 sapier1 that's why I even split the mobs from the core on github ... mobf itself doesn't contain any mob
23:43 zorman2000 Yes, I saw that. To many new players, unfortunately that causes confusion. Maybe you should add a link to the forum post that points to a whole zip file with everything
23:43 zorman2000 Not saying that you are wrong
23:43 zorman2000 Just that it would help new players
23:44 sapier1 for what I remember I had a package containing both in the forum post, but not sure about it
23:44 sapier1 animals_modpack usually contains everything
23:44 sapier1 but I agree there's quite some reason for confusion
23:46 zorman2000 Last time I downlaoded it I had to tweak it a bit. Can't remember right now what it was
23:46 zorman2000 I can check and post it in the forums
23:54 crazyR Does anyone know of a way to make sounds fade in and out.. is there a way to adjust the volume of sound tracks after they have started playing without stopping them and starting them again??
23:54 sapier1 not for what I know
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