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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-01-01

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Time Nick Message
00:28 hcorion joined #minetest-dev
00:35 Zeno` joined #minetest-dev
01:06 Zeno` The change to _game was made a year ago?
01:06 Zeno` How was it not opposed? O.O
01:09 VanessaE well the only thing to do is fix it.
01:10 Zeno` well, the problem there is we will have a schism
01:10 Zeno` with a whole release that's out of whack (if this was indeed changed 1 year ago in the wrong place; i.e. in _game)
01:11 Zeno` and anyway only 2 of us (maybe 3) are allowed to merge to _game anyway
01:11 VanessaE all right, G*d damn it.
01:11 VanessaE parmat, wake up and get your ass in here.
01:11 VanessaE paramat*
01:14 VanessaE to be blunt, these kind of shit needs to stop
01:14 VanessaE this*
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01:46 sofar what change are we talking about?
01:47 VanessaE sofar: how light (as in 1-15) corresponds with the visual rendered result and how it affects growing stuff.
01:47 VanessaE I guess it's because a year ago, more light became required to grow crops than what a torch could produce
01:48 VanessaE and the new lighting table you guys are working on may be compounding that
01:48 VanessaE (the one for the rendering stage)
01:48 sofar the light table is just a visual effect
01:48 sofar the grow stages is linked to the nodes light level
01:48 VanessaE I think that's the whole issue.
01:49 Zeno` yes, and the nodes' light levels are potentially going to be changes
01:49 Zeno` d
01:49 sofar I would be totally OK with bright torches
01:49 Zeno` how they look visually makes no difference at all
01:49 VanessaE if a torch seems too bright, just use fewer of them
01:49 sofar it does for visibility
01:49 VanessaE it's not like players ever only place just one
01:49 VanessaE they use dozens
01:49 sofar that's why I wanted them brighter
01:49 sofar torch spam is a form of grief imho
01:49 Zeno` for visibility, yes, but for game mechanics the display/visual light levels make no difference
01:50 Zeno` whereas changing the nodes' light level affects a lot of things
01:50 sofar I think we just need to come up with some compromise
01:50 sofar e.g. require 12 to grow crops, and 13 for saplings
01:50 sofar make torches 13, mese lamps 14
01:50 sofar soemthing like that
01:51 VanessaE saplings just grow on a timer, regardless of light, I thought
01:51 Zeno` no, they need light
01:51 sofar ./default/trees.lua:if not light_level or light_level < 13 then
01:51 VanessaE huh.
01:51 VanessaE well ok
01:51 sofar all the same function I think now
01:51 VanessaE in any case,
01:52 VanessaE let's just fix it
01:52 sofar afk (dinner/new years etc.)
01:54 Zeno` doing that in the _game would still make a lot of mods broken though
01:55 VanessaE perhaps, but what else can be done?
01:55 Zeno` just tweak the light levels in the engine
01:55 Zeno` the display light levels I mean
01:55 VanessaE you know me, I'm one for backward compatibility when it's practical, but if there's no choice but to break a bunch of shit...?
01:55 hmmmm slight problem with that
01:56 hmmmm i had plans for adjusting the display light levels with client-side biomes
01:56 hmmmm should it be a user setting, i wonder?
01:56 VanessaE hmmmm: that's a nice idea and all but frankly, out of scope for this issue :-/
01:56 hmmmm well i think this is a silly issue
01:56 hmmmm just don't touch anything any more
01:56 hmmmm leave it the way it is right now
01:56 VanessaE it's too late for that
01:57 hmmmm how so?
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01:57 VanessaE because it would seem that we need to roll back to light relationships that were in place a year ago
01:57 VanessaE and THEN adapt the rendering table
01:58 sofar how about we define required light levels in the nodedef?
01:58 hmmmm when you say light relationships
01:58 VanessaE principle of least surprise would say that users should just use more or fewer light sources if they don't like the result
01:58 hmmmm what do you mean there
01:58 sofar same way we can define the schematics in the nodedef and get rid of the stupid sapling lookup code
01:58 VanessaE rather than changing *what* sources they use e.g. to grow a sapling or wheat or whatever
01:58 VanessaE that's what I mean
01:58 VanessaE but I can't speak for Zeno`
02:00 Zeno` I don't care what happens with display/visual light brightness
02:00 hmmmm so just to make sure i'm not misunderstanding, you're saying that there is an issue because players don't like the current perceived brightness of the torches due to the light LUT change?
02:00 Zeno` It's changing nodedefs that concern me
02:00 sofar hmmmm: I don't think people are complaining about the visual light levels (most people I've seen respond say it's good)
02:01 hmmmm yes, and i agree
02:01 Zeno` well, why change nodedefs then?
02:01 hmmmm so could someone tell me what the *issue* is?
02:01 hmmmm nobody needs to change anything
02:01 Zeno` the issue is that paramat wants to change them
02:01 hmmmm and there is a massive opposition to his proposed change
02:01 hmmmm it's called a pull REQUEST for a reason
02:01 Zeno` good :) So no issue then
02:01 hmmmm request denied
02:02 hmmmm I suppose not being able to grow trees with only torches is fine
02:02 VanessaE change the light levels at the rendering stage, using sofar's or Zeno`s table or something.  if necessary, fix farming plants, saplings, etc so that they grow well with the current node def light levels of torches et al.
02:02 hmmmm annoying change to game mechanics but whatever
02:02 VanessaE and for G*d sakes, add a mese lamp that isn't an ugly-ass 1m cube.
02:02 hmmmm VanessaE:  why though
02:02 hmmmm not what, why
02:03 VanessaE why, which part?
02:03 hmmmm why do you need to do
02:03 hmmmm [09:02 PM] <VanessaE> change the light levels at the rendering stage, using sofar's or Zeno`s table or something.  if necessary, fix farming plants, saplings, etc so that they grow well with the current node def light levels of torches et al.
02:03 hmmmm this
02:03 VanessaE because the existing rendering table (well, what I last saw) makes, and always has made, everything look too dark.
02:03 hmmmm the new rendering table is fine
02:03 VanessaE did you see all those screenshots fixer posted a while back?
02:04 hmmmm not really
02:04 VanessaE how "new" is "new"?
02:04 sofar currently, *my* table is in master (that PR was accepted)
02:04 VanessaE ok, then I accept that.
02:04 hmmmm as of right now, 12/31/16, the light levels we have are great
02:04 Zeno` well, if visual light levels need tweaking that is the approach I've been recommending all along, and not change the nodedefs
02:04 hmmmm don't screw with it
02:04 hmmmm ;;
02:04 sofar so the only thing remaining is farming mechanics
02:04 VanessaE then leave the new rendering table in place.
02:04 VanessaE I'm fine with it.
02:04 hmmmm me too
02:04 VanessaE so fix the farming mod and saplings et al.
02:05 hmmmm so what needs to get fixed with the saplings exactly
02:05 VanessaE apparently they need too much light to grow
02:05 VanessaE making underground farming impossible
02:05 hmmmm well that's controversial
02:05 hmmmm are you for or against?
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02:05 VanessaE I am in favor of lowering the required light levels of those growable nodes.
02:06 hmmmm personally, i could go either way.  i miss the fact that a cool game mechanic i used to create underground tree farms is dead, but i can adapt
02:06 VanessaE but not in favor of changing the light source values of torches etc (yet).
02:06 hmmmm what do you think about the mese lamp thing though
02:06 Zeno` I can adapt as well... but for existing worlds I guess they'll just have to never update minetest_game
02:06 hmmmm :/
02:06 hmmmm yeah agreed
02:06 hmmmm server owners are going to have to never update minetest_game, OR
02:07 Zeno` it was a very cool and IMO necessary (for deep, deep mining) for underground wood sources but *sigh*
02:07 hmmmm a mod could be added to minetest_game that's disabled by default, that does nothing more but override the grow function for trees
02:07 Zeno` we could make a migration script or something as well
02:07 hmmmm server owners would be able to update MT game, and enable that mod
02:07 hmmmm no script needed even
02:07 Zeno` it all sounds awfully complicated though hehhe
02:07 Zeno` hmm, true
02:07 VanessaE as for the mese lamp...  for now, it should be the brightest light source in the game, but as an ugly-ass cube, well..  no.  add something else to go with it, same light level, but looks more like a common grow lamp or whatever
02:08 hmmmm pretty sure paramat is already working on a better mese lamp
02:08 sofar this is why I want to move farming parameters into the nodedef, then people can easily make an init.lua with a minetest.override() that puts a new light level needed for growing in the nodedef
02:08 VanessaE hmmmm: to be perfectly honest, what's the delay on that?  this isn't something one should need to "work on"...
02:08 hmmmm sofar:  that's reasonable to me, when you put it that way
02:09 hmmmm VanessaE, it'd have to be a meshnode, no?
02:09 hmmmm you can't exactly churn those out in a few minutes time
02:09 VanessaE hmmmm: if it were up to me, sure.  but you know as well as I do that it won't be.
02:09 hmmmm well we dunno yet
02:09 hmmmm we'll see soon enough
02:09 hmmmm paramat is EST + 6 i think
02:10 VanessaE and,...um...well...  actually, I could churn one out in a few minutes if you wanted a really simple one. ;)
02:10 VanessaE EST+6 maybe, but this has been an issue for a few days now
02:10 hmmmm is it really that critical
02:10 VanessaE so he's had time, if he intends to make one.  honestly, I expect it'll be a nodebox not too different from a fencepost
02:10 hmmmm that a couple days is enough to complain about
02:11 hmmmm it's a 3d model that visually represents a specific pattern of 16 ones and zeros
02:11 hmmmm for a video game
02:11 hmmmm nobody's dying
02:11 VanessaE (I'm not saying paramat isn't creative, btw.  I'm saying he's conservative - seems like no one wants to really exploit meshnodes in mt_game)
02:11 hmmmm nsj
02:11 hmmmm bah*  are you kidding me?
02:11 VanessaE I'm quite serious.
02:11 hmmmm maybe conservative with visual styling, but minetest_game gets some ridiculous propositions from him
02:12 Zeno` phew
02:12 hmmmm by ridiculous i mean changing game mechanics in a big way
02:12 hmmmm not necessarily bad
02:12 VanessaE I meant the visual styling, actually; but really, look at mt_game.  can you spot one thing in it that couldn't have been done before mesh nodes?
02:12 hmmmm absolutely not
02:12 hmmmm what would celeron say?
02:12 hmmmm i know he doesn't like meshnodes but nodeboxes, maybe?
02:12 VanessaE he'd say he doesn't care enough to change it :P
02:12 hmmmm of course
02:13 Zeno` I think he would oppose changes to nodebox light levels though
02:13 hmmmm i mean i agree we need a strong lead on visual style for mt_game
02:13 hmmmm Zeno`:  you mean torch light levels
02:13 hmmmm ?
02:13 VanessaE hmmmm: let me put it this way - you ever looked at my/Dan's ilights mod?
02:13 Zeno` mostly yes
02:13 hmmmm i haven't no
02:13 hmmmm this should be consensus based
02:14 hmmmm no design by committee, just what a simple majority wants it to be like
02:14 VanessaE https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbi​es/minetest/screenshots/ilights.png
02:14 VanessaE there.  That's over-complex for mt_game of course
02:14 hmmmm yeah absolutely
02:14 VanessaE but it's an example of something you can do that looks good and doesn't go apeshit
02:14 hmmmm something simpler than that but you can do something very neat looking for mese lamps
02:14 VanessaE imagine a "mese lamp" that looks like the yellow one, but simplified
02:14 hmmmm yeah
02:15 VanessaE yeah, see we're on the same page here
02:15 hmmmm i mean mese lamps is supposed to be alien tecnhology right?
02:15 hmmmm or is mese an alien material and humans make use of it...
02:15 VanessaE it's an "alien artifact"
02:15 Zeno` I think it's alien something
02:15 VanessaE of course redefined all to hell
02:15 hmmmm who cares man
02:16 hmmmm just make it look cool, and make it a nodebox or meshnode
02:16 hmmmm problem solved
02:16 hmmmm in fact VanessaE if you want to put together a simple PR to get the ball rolling i would not object to you using the yellow lamp model right there in that screenshot
02:16 hmmmm seriously
02:17 hmmmm (see how i just delegated work to somebody else? :-P)
02:17 VanessaE heh
02:17 Zeno` very cunning
02:17 VanessaE I'd submit a PR but you know as well as I that paramat will throw it out
02:17 Zeno` I try that with VE all the time but she just tells me to fsck off
02:17 VanessaE yeah, fsck off. :)
02:17 hmmmm Zeno`:  don't you mean "f**k off"?
02:18 Zeno` that'll do :)
02:18 Zeno` VanessaE, but you already have the model
02:18 VanessaE besides, I'm too busy binge-watching The Simpsons :P
02:18 hmmmm yeah idunno
02:18 Zeno` how long would the PR take to make? :P
02:18 hmmmm paramat is a big contributor to mtgame but not the only voice
02:18 hmmmm again this all needs to be consensus based
02:19 VanessaE of course there's one problem with all of this
02:19 VanessaE your 7+1 lighting idea.  maybe it should be instituted first?
02:19 VanessaE otherwise, aren't we just setting up for another clusterfuck later?
02:19 hmmmm 7+1 lighting thing is dead
02:19 VanessaE well, shit.
02:19 hmmmm i was talking with that junhedad whatever guy
02:20 hmmmm i saw him make a couple of PRs, pretty good
02:20 hmmmm he's done a lot of thinking about lighting as well
02:20 VanessaE (juhdanad)
02:20 hmmmm yeah that
02:20 VanessaE so what's his plan?  I missed that convo
02:20 Zeno` 7+1 was how it used to be in the past I very vaguely recall
02:20 VanessaE (or didn't really "get it")
02:20 Zeno` and there is an obscure comment that doesn't make sense in one of the old LUTs
02:21 hmmmm well the fundamental issue with 7+1 is that it comingles separate light sources together
02:21 VanessaE hmm.
02:21 hmmmm the specific case where it falls apart is when you have a difference between day_light and night_light
02:22 hmmmm like the day_light is darker than the night light
02:22 Zeno` dat bad
02:23 VanessaE well surely that's more a problem at the rendering stage than the nodedef?
02:23 hmmmm err switch that around
02:23 Zeno` -# We want 0 at light=0 and 255 at light=LIGHT_MAX
02:23 Zeno` -LIGHT_MAX = 14
02:23 hmmmm if you have full day light, and then a dimmer night light
02:24 Zeno` I have no idea what that means but it's probably ancient
02:24 hmmmm then at night the air node would still be lit
02:24 VanessaE ah
02:25 hmmmm and before you say, "just check the nodedef for its light_source!"
02:25 hmmmm consider if the node is air where light is spread, not a source itself
02:25 Zeno` Why don't you just check the nodedef for its light_source?        (KIDDING)
02:25 VanessaE the only way to solve that is for all nodes to be dark, unless they have a light source, and add sunlight (or moonlight) at the rendering stage
02:25 hmmmm yeah that's one thing
02:26 hmmmm see, what you're doing there is removing a light source from having to be stored
02:26 hmmmm the issue is that we have two distinct light sources
02:26 VanessaE indeed
02:26 hmmmm sun and artificial
02:26 hmmmm sun is only "on" during the day, whereas artificial light sources are always-on
02:27 hmmmm the way the lighting algorithms were imagined though is that one light "bank" is active during the day, and the other is "active" during the night, and you blend the two together
02:27 hmmmm that's an equally valid way of looking at it but i think it all makes more sense if you consider the sun a light source that can be switched on and off, and the artificial light sources can be switched on and off
02:28 hmmmm the artifical light sources all being combined into one light bank too is a simplification
02:28 hmmmm really you should have X+1 number of light banks for a given mapnode, where X is the maximum number of light sources in a mapblock
02:30 VanessaE mmmh
02:37 VanessaE maybe I'm just too simplistic about this :P
02:40 VanessaE but to me, only artificial sources ought affect the map, and that stored light should only be re-calculated and re-stored when a light source is added or removed.  sun/moon should be added at the rendering stage for display, and added to the value loaded from the map when something queries the light level
02:41 hmmmm but why can't artificial light sources be the same?
02:41 VanessaE what do you mean?
02:46 VanessaE any way you slice it, you have to iterate through the nodes in the vicinity of a light source when you add/remove it, and similarly, all those stored light values still have to be read and displayed. adding a single integer to them (and capping the result) seems like it shouldn't be too heavy
02:47 VanessaE (well, two integers - since sun and moon are both visible for a short while at sunrise/set)
02:48 Zeno` just nuke the moon
02:48 VanessaE Zeno`: I think xkcd proved that that wouldn't actually have much effect :)
02:48 Zeno` *sigh*
02:48 VanessaE https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/
02:48 Zeno` oh well, it was a good idea at the time
02:51 VanessaE hmmmm: you'll have to bear with me if I sound totally stupid on this stuff.
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03:01 hmmmm VanessaE:  If the light sources were hardware then you would not need to store anything at all
03:01 hmmmm since it'd all be computed at render time by the gpu
03:02 VanessaE true, but we can't do that.
03:02 hmmmm it knows the geometry, textures, position of the light, light characteristics, etc.
03:03 hmmmm new year's in less than 2 hours
03:03 VanessaE http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/live_ne​w_years_eve_2017_ball_drop_live_stream_from.html
03:03 hmmmm i gotta bbl
03:03 VanessaE here's a stream for it if you want to avoid ABC
03:03 hmmmm lol
03:03 hmmmm i'm not alone
03:04 VanessaE (it ain't "new year's rockin' eve" but at least you can see the ball drop)
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03:04 hmmmm love to stay and chat, but i am obligated to do party celebration type things now
03:04 VanessaE cya
03:04 VanessaE get drunk.
03:04 VanessaE :P
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06:12 hmmmm happy new year!
06:13 VanessaE happy new year :)
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06:26 Zeno` err, you're 14.5 hours late!
06:26 Zeno` but happy new year!
06:26 hmmmm EST
06:27 Zeno` est31, hmmmm is trying to contact you
06:27 hmmmm pshh
06:27 hmmmm happy new year to you to est31
06:27 hmmmm but i just had my new year an hour and 30 minutes ago
06:28 VanessaE est31: happy new year, damn it :)
06:28 * Zeno` bursts balloons
06:32 hmmmm ok i'm really drunk now
06:32 hmmmm time to start coding minetst
06:32 hmmmm minetest
06:32 * VanessaE raises a glass to hmmmm
06:33 hmmmm or mebbe i pass out on this couch
06:33 VanessaE I'm quite comfortably plastered :)
06:33 hmmmm yeah i'm gonna cut it early tonight guys
06:33 hmmmm so tired
06:33 VanessaE ok, sleep well
06:33 hmmmm fbbbbbbbbbbb
06:33 Zeno` pass out well, hmmmm xD
06:34 hmmmm i had 2 glasses of baileys
06:34 hmmmm 2 white russians
06:34 Zeno` :-o
06:34 hmmmm 1 dogfish head 60 minute
06:34 Zeno` those russians!
06:34 hmmmm they hacked the elections bro
06:34 hmmmm :)
06:34 Zeno` lol
06:34 hmmmm lol
06:34 Zeno` I saw that
06:34 hmmmm i'm being facetious
06:34 VanessaE I've been consuming far more champagne and spark---^Wbarely glistening wine than I should :)
06:34 hmmmm and then i had lots of champagne
06:34 Zeno` and they had to do it on US soil instead of from Russia!
06:34 hmmmm i think i drank more than half the bottle
06:35 Zeno` so they sent the Hax0rs home
06:35 Zeno` what a load of shite
06:35 hmmmm well
06:35 hmmmm i don't doubt they had really implanted malware into a DNC computer
06:35 Zeno` doesn't the US do the same?
06:35 hmmmm that's pretty par for the course for any sufficiently advanced nation state, nevermind a rival
06:35 hmmmm yes it does
06:35 Zeno` and AUS and... yeah
06:35 hmmmm however leaked emails
06:36 hmmmm not so much
06:36 hmmmm anthony weiner was probably the source of the leak
06:36 Zeno` yeah, he whines a lot so it most likely *was* him
06:36 hmmmm and even so, if they were "unimportant" like the establishment democrats claimed, then it had no bearing on the results
06:36 hmmmm so much bullshit
06:36 hmmmm i can't stand it
06:37 Zeno` I told a friend of mine the other day that the moon is made of cheese
06:37 hmmmm remmeber back in 1976 when the USA rigged the australian election
06:37 Zeno` (he's 6)
06:37 hmmmm ;;
06:37 hmmmm lol
06:37 Zeno` and he said "That's bullshit Craig"
06:37 hmmmm thats the same age as my 2 lil nephews
06:37 Zeno` and stomped off
06:37 hmmmm they're so much fun at 6
06:37 Zeno` yeah hehhe
06:37 hmmmm lol
06:38 hmmmm alright really forreal now later m8
06:38 hmmmm m80
06:39 diemartin m79 works better
06:39 diemartin at least for mt code
06:40 Zeno` night
06:40 diemartin aaaaand Im on the hiiiiighway to helllll... or something
06:41 Zeno` lol
06:41 * Zeno` whorls his cowboy hat around his head
06:42 Zeno` I think I'm the only one sober and I've had 2 beers
06:42 Zeno` err wait... does that mean I'm not sober
06:43 diemartin o sht this is dev sorry
06:43 Zeno` lol
06:45 * OldCoder assumes not sober is off topic
06:46 VanessaE OldCoder: it's new year's morning.  drunk is quite on-topic for the moment :)
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06:48 Zeno` even VE is drunk
06:49 Zeno` this is quite an event
06:49 OldCoder VanessaE, Seasons Greetings to you
06:50 diemartin bah, an event would be z
06:50 diemartin Ve not drunk
06:50 VanessaE my friend, I am drunk as two skunks :D
06:50 OldCoder Two are drunker than one?
06:51 * OldCoder is sleepy and not sure of the math
06:51 VanessaE yes :)
06:51 OldCoder Very well!
06:51 * OldCoder has suspended beer entirely. But was handed Grand Marnier (spelling) tonight.
06:52 OldCoder It is hard to describe. Similar to liquid marmalade that is intoxicating.
06:59 est31 HAPPY NEW YEAR
06:59 est31 everyone
06:59 est31 (its 8 AM in my country lol)
06:59 VanessaE happy new year, est31
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10:09 nrzkt happy new year 2017, may minetest be less laggy and cheated than before :)
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14:09 nrzkt i'm fixing the breath cheat by backporting one fix from my fork, i will provide a PR soon. For HP i have it too except for falling
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14:30 sfan5 nrzkt: you mean doing breath server-side?
14:31 nrzkt ofc
14:31 nrzkt it's quite easy i already have the fix, just need to fix one crash & check the creative mode
14:31 nrzkt i also has it for HP (partially), i just need to backport it
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14:36 VanessaE fall damage should be easy to enforce server-side also.
14:36 juhdanad Hi and happy new year to all!
14:37 VanessaE happy new year, juhdanad
14:37 juhdanad I have a suggestion: lighting would be less controversial if plants grew on dimmer light levels too, but with less probability.
14:37 nrzkt VanessaE, it's not the easiest because you don't have the client physics servers side
14:39 VanessaE nrzkt: seems to me that you can at least detect when the client "should" have hit something, and figure the time from the last reported position to there.  short enough time for the distance == kill the player
14:39 VanessaE (I wouldn't bother trying to calculate actual damage, so much as being sure they're dead)
14:39 nrzkt it's less simple than that
14:39 nrzkt imagine you respawn => kill, you teleport using a ingame object => kill, etc
14:40 nrzkt you take a lift => kill
14:40 VanessaE true but I assume you'd filter out things like that
14:40 VanessaE anything involving a teleport
14:40 nrzkt yes, then not simple.
14:41 VanessaE maybe not "simple" but surely doable
14:41 Calinou <VanessaE> fall damage should be easy to enforce server-side also.
14:41 Calinou though it can be incorrect
14:41 Calinou especially since player positions are sent only 10 times a second
14:41 Calinou (it should be accurate enough for most use cases though)
14:42 VanessaE Calinou: that's why I figured only look for obvious kills
14:42 VanessaE you don't have to have a perfect solution, just good enough to make the client modification pointless
14:43 nrzkt no a pefect solution is required here due to different mod possibilities
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15:14 nrzkt here is the first preview: #4978
15:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4978 -- Breath cheat fix: server side by nerzhul
15:14 nrzkt i need to restore the old behaviour for old servers to prevent cheating on non updated servers... lol
15:16 juhdanad Thanks for working on this, it is a serious exploit.
15:17 nrzkt juhdanad, atm it's only breaht, HP a little bit more complicated but i already did the main part
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15:21 est31 okay, I think I have a job offer for minetest core devs
15:21 est31 there is a young company, they want to use minetest for teaching kids
15:22 est31 and it seems they are going forward with minetest, and need someone to adapt it to their needs
15:22 est31 if you are interested, contact me via pm
15:23 est31 their website: http://kidscode.com
15:24 est31 (you might know them from a forum post)
15:25 octacian huh, interesting. and I did see the forums post. too bad I don't know C++ otherwise I might be interested in helping...
15:25 nrzkt est31, interesting but what are their needs with MT ?
15:26 juhdanad I assume this would be a new fork. May the changes be pulled back to the main branch?
15:26 est31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOg2574OEU
15:28 nrzkt sfan5, did you have the client version stats ? and server version stats? could be interesting to know
15:28 sfan5 only client version stats here -> https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/
15:28 est31 nrzkt: server version stats: https://gist.github.com/est31/66602d589b225b27afd5
15:29 est31 also very easy to re-do
15:29 est31 (no privileged access to server infra needed)
15:30 nrzkt if we add anticheat the server version is very important to ensure it's working, and client version too
15:31 sfan5 well it'd need a protocol bump
15:31 octacian est31: I still don't quite get what MT things would need to be adapted from the video.
15:31 nrzkt sfan5, i did it
15:31 nrzkt it's forced pushed
15:32 nrzkt i saw the minimum protocol version is 13... maybe it could be interesting to raise this for next release
15:32 nrzkt TOSERVER_BREATH was added in v21 of the protocol in 2013
15:33 nrzkt maybe we can raise minimum version to at lease 21
15:33 nrzkt least*
15:33 nrzkt better should be protocol v23 which added TOSERVER_CLIENT_READY apr2014
15:33 nrzkt more than 2 years ago
15:34 nore btw, do we have the code of this hacked client or not?
15:34 nrzkt nore Zeno showed me and it was very simple it comment the shitty client part for damaged & breath, and taht's all
15:35 nore nrzkt: well, these were not all the hacks, were they?
15:35 est31 excerpt from the email:
15:35 est31 The first assignment is likely to be a audit with a plan to correct Minetest pitfalls and move to a platform which is as operational and reliable for schools as possible. If we could have one or two of the main developers working with us for this, it would be really great.
15:35 nrzkt not a server hack, just a protocol standard usage :p
15:35 nrzkt hmmm there is one bug to fix with my pr
15:36 nrzkt there is an underflow somewhere
15:37 nrzkt okay fixed
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15:39 sfan5 nore: i have also read the changed source, it's mainly patching the client to ignore what the server says
15:40 sfan5 that is mostly useless though since things like dieing, tool wear and punch damage are server-side
15:40 nore yeah
15:41 nore but I guess the client can just send its position again after "dieing", can't it?
15:41 sfan5 the server ignores any interaction or movement when the player is dead
15:42 nore of course, but what I meant is that the client asks for respawn, and then, sends its old position again
15:42 sfan5 that would cause the "moved too fast" check to trigger
15:43 nore hmm
15:43 nrzkt yes, for tools it's already prevented by server
15:43 nrzkt only remaining "bugs" are breath & HP
15:43 nore wasn't it often disabled on servers because it triggered too often?
15:43 nrzkt please review #4978 and tell me
15:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4978 -- Breath cheat fix: server side by nerzhul
15:44 sfan5 if you do disable_anticheat = true then don't come complaining about cheaters
15:44 sfan5 also would be nice if someone could review #4952
15:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4952 -- TileAnimation refactor & 2D sheet animation by sfan5
15:48 nrzkt sfan5, why did you remove the blocker thing ? cheating is a blocking issue
15:49 sfan5 blocker label only makes sense when there's a release soon
15:49 est31 yeah
15:49 est31 what sfan5 said
15:49 sfan5 high priority is a better label for that purpose
15:49 est31 ++
15:49 nrzkt okay :)
15:49 nrzkt est31, sfan5 please test & review & merge :p
15:53 Fixer Happy New Year! https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/C0_xARzWIAEhvqE.jpg:large
15:56 nrzkt est31, nore sfan5 => #4679
15:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4679 -- Add unittests to test player saving/loading by nerzhul
15:56 nrzkt #4979 sorry
15:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4979 -- Raise minimum protocol version to 23. by nerzhul
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16:04 paramat nore sfan5 sofar please can anyone approve game#1481 ? very much needed
16:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1481 -- Default: More generous meselamp recipe by paramat
16:05 juhdanad I know I wrote that but maybe you did not notice: lighting would be less controversial if plants grew on dimmer light levels too, but with less probability.
16:05 juhdanad *wrote that earlier
16:07 paramat yes i saw, i'm not keen
16:10 paramat torches are staying at 13, so you would then be able to grow stuff with torches, which has never been allowed in MT, quite rightly
16:11 juhdanad Sorry, I just wanted to help...
16:11 paramat no problem :]
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18:39 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4967 this is niiice one
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20:33 nrzkt est31, is this an approval for #4978 ? i'm fixing the point you noticed and used the MYMIN mentionned by Krock
20:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4978 -- Breath cheat fix: server side by nerzhul
20:34 est31 generally the code looks good but I'm not sure whether the concept is good
20:34 est31 err
20:34 est31 it is sorry
20:34 est31 +1
20:35 nrzkt thanks :)
20:36 nrzkt i will merge it later this evening, except if somebody wants to do it before, then he is free :)
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20:48 sfan5 est31: please review #4952 if you have time
20:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4952 -- TileAnimation refactor & 2D sheet animation by sfan5
20:49 sfan5 if a protocol bump is happening anyway then it would make sense to merge that too
20:50 est31 sfan5: -1 sorry, 2d sheet animation is bad imo
20:51 sfan5 because?
20:51 est31 whats the point
20:51 est31 also, its more complicated format
20:51 sfan5 it's
20:51 sfan5 * requested by modders
20:52 sfan5 * more common in general
20:52 sfan5 * nicer to edit (https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/4774#issuecomment-262310015)
20:54 est31 mhh
20:54 sfan5 it doesn't hurt to support it even if it is minimally more complicated
20:54 est31 I think I'll stay neutral in the discussion
20:56 sfan5 would still be nice if you could review the code
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22:11 nrzkt rubenwardy, sfan5 fixed the remaining style/typo fixes
22:15 nrzkt if no more objections or fixes, i will merge that in ~30min
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22:53 sfan5 hm
22:54 sfan5 nrzkt: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4978/​files#diff-2e027fdc3655b827284be99af7143dfbL196 why is that removed
22:54 sfan5 the client might still need to send breath packets to older servers
22:56 nrzkt sfan5, oops, thanks for pointing this, it doesn't break the behaviour but make the packet unreliable only
22:56 nrzkt i push the fix now, forgot it
22:56 nrzkt i forgot to cancel this after my first push
22:58 nrzkt pushed
22:58 nrzkt sfan5, don't hesitate to add your opinion on #4979
22:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4979 -- Raise minimum protocol version to 23. by nerzhul
22:59 sfan5 sure
23:15 rubenwardy Merging game#1474 in 15...
23:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1474 -- decrease the value of gunpowder for trails by DS-Minetest
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23:20 est31 sfan5: do you have an idea what the submitter wants?
23:20 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4980
23:20 est31 we don't use C++14, not even C++11
23:20 sfan5 well dunno
23:20 sfan5 but this https://github.com/minetest/minetestm​apper/blob/master/.travis.yml#L16L17
23:21 sfan5 it helps with testing the C++11 code paths i guess
23:21 est31 yeah
23:21 est31 also, we dont use experimental/filesystem
23:21 est31 its a bit weird because I've first thought this was some automated bot
23:22 sfan5 same
23:22 est31 idk, opening issues in all repos that have c++ and travis
23:22 est31 but we are the only repo to get a report
23:25 nrzkt i think this is a bot
23:26 rubenwardy it failed the turing test for me as well :)
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23:40 rubenwardy Merging...
23:41 rubenwardy done
23:41 VanessaE you merged in a turing test?
23:43 rubenwardy :P game#1474
23:43 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1474 -- decrease the value of gunpowder for trails by DS-Minetest
23:43 Fixer about time, I never seen any trails on actual servers
23:44 sfan5 that might be because tnt is disabled by default in mp
23:45 Fixer on servers I played it was enabled
23:45 rubenwardy What does "Adoption Needed" in MTG mean?
23:45 Fixer maintainer is needed?
23:47 rubenwardy Yeah, that would make sense as to why there's 0 open or closed tickets with it on

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