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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-11-29

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Time Nick Message
00:02 paramat that can generate new world though
00:07 Fixer paramat: you want to see how liquids unstuck in old worlds?
00:08 paramat well i might test in mgv7 floatlands
00:09 paramat in fact i intend to
00:09 Fixer minetest mem use after some idling - 280mb
00:10 Fixer paramat: too bad i don't have that amazing just test water/lava grief, it is so huge beyond believe, there is video about it on maikerumine channel
00:10 Fixer seen it in person, tried to fight, eventually they worldedited it
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00:46 est31 lhofhansl: hi
00:46 est31 lhofhansl: I have an idea for how to implement it in the best way
00:46 est31 will add a comment to #4811 shortly
00:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4811 -- Optimize/adjust blocks/ActiveObjects sent at the server based on client settings. by lhofhansl
00:46 est31 (generic system to send stuff from the client to the server)
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00:52 lhofhansl It's not just generic stuff. Needs to be sent at connect time, then when things are changing, etc.
00:53 lhofhansl Making sure it's only sent when changed, etc.
01:08 est31 reconnect initializes a completely new connection
01:08 est31 you dont need to special case it
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01:58 paramat +1 for 4061
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02:39 paramat game#1427
02:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1427 -- Boats: Fix player-attached dig pickup in creative mode by paramat
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03:27 paramat made parts of floatlands too thin, now addressing this
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03:54 TheReaperKing I came across a flowing river in the valleys mapgen today that actually went from a higher elevation and ran off into the ocean and I was like O_O
03:55 TheReaperKing it looked sooooo awesome
04:07 kaeza have a screenshot?
04:07 kaeza also, probably → #minetest
04:13 TheReaperKing I have it on my other computer which is off right now but I'll try to get one tomorrow
04:13 TheReaperKing I'm on my way to bed or else I'd fire it up
04:13 TheReaperKing it isn't that dramatic but looks so beautiful
04:14 TheReaperKing and realistic
04:14 TheReaperKing it is coming through a snow covered forest
04:14 TheReaperKing in general in class using the valleys mapgen we've found some really rivers and little islands in them
04:16 paramat #4817
04:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4817 -- Mgv7 floatlands: Thicker base terrain and mountain flange by paramat
04:17 paramat yeah it's difficult to make rivers flow from high to low
04:19 paramat so they tend to go downhill then uphill, round in circles
04:20 paramat 4817 is fairly trivial tuning, might merge later
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04:35 est31 maybe I can help with the PR to do it in the right way instead...
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04:59 paramat that would be good
05:03 lhofhansl Added a pretty long comment on $4811 with some ideas, would love to get some feedback.
05:03 lhofhansl #4811 that is
05:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4811 -- Optimize/adjust blocks/ActiveObjects sent at the server based on client settings. by lhofhansl
05:25 Zeno` lhofhansl, if another approach was take (e.g. adding that extra struct) wouldn't that require a protocol bump and cause client incompatibilities?
05:25 Zeno` Or could unknown packets just be dropped?
05:25 Zeno` (I'm not saying if it's a good idea or a bad idea, just wanting to get the protocol question out of the way first)
05:26 Zeno` I remember IFF files on the Amiga which were a file format but it's kind of similar... unknown chunks (as they were called) were simply ignored
05:26 Zeno` does minetest currently behave this way? (I've never looked at the networking code)
05:28 lhofhansl Handling an old client is easy: Just check the remaining length of the packet (that's actually done in a few places).
05:28 lhofhansl Not sure what happens when the client sends stuff the server did not expect. So a new packet type is definitely safer here (I came around to that).
05:28 Zeno` The other question I have (keeping in mind that I haven't even tested let alone reviewed the code yet) is: Is this PR suitable, in your mind, for the upcoming release or should it be delayed until immediately after the release. Again I honestly don't know the answer (I haven't reviewed) an am just asking
05:29 lhofhansl An old server would just ignore it.
05:29 Zeno` lhofhansl, looking at the code it looks like if there is extra data it's just ignored (a series of if's). Is that correct?
05:29 lhofhansl I think that's one to pull in. Saves a ton on bandwidth. (Apparently Freeminer had this for 3 years I just learned :) )
05:30 Zeno` yep, ok
05:30 Zeno` I'll test and review as soon as I can then
05:30 lhofhansl The if's deal with shorter packets, not with longer packets.
05:31 Zeno` ok, but your previous answer gave all the info I need (I'm really just glancing atm)
05:31 Zeno` speed reading :D
05:31 lhofhansl I have a new version almost ready which introduces a new packet type, to make this cleaner. Also allows sending this data at different time (compares to player pos)
05:31 Zeno` well, if that doesn't break older stuff then it seems sensible to me
05:31 lhofhansl (take a look at my last comment on the PR, unless that's what you mean)
05:32 Zeno` we really need to break protocol at some point as well, but just not right now heh
05:32 Zeno` yeah I'm reading the comment now
05:33 Zeno` I could measure network traffic while I am profiling etc as well, if required
05:33 Zeno` but I don't think it's required at all (to measure). It's kinda obvious the nett result will be less traffic I think
05:34 lhofhansl That'd be cool. I have some log message that tell me stuff is sent, and what is sent as well. But always good to double check.
05:34 Zeno` yeah ok. I have a script somewhere to do that, so may as well quantify it
05:35 lhofhansl I can see with full view range that less stuff is rendered on the client, so pretty sure it's not sent either, but you never know :)
05:37 Zeno` my gut feeling is you're right
05:37 Zeno` wow, there are a lot of comments to wade through hahah
05:37 Zeno` and it's only been open 3 days :D
05:38 Zeno` oh, nice to meet you finally btw
05:40 Zeno` so zoom issue if fixed now, lhofhansl?
05:40 lhofhansl Nice to meet you :)
05:41 lhofhansl Yeah, if I do the last_XYZ hack in LocalPlayer (just like we do for sendPlayerPos) everything works quite nicely.
05:43 Zeno` ok, I'll test etc etc tonight, but I like the concept and the code seems fine
05:43 lhofhansl I have a new version that implements what I described last. Should I just push that one out?
05:43 lhofhansl It's definitely better than the current version.
05:43 Zeno` if you think it's better
05:43 Zeno` yeah do it :)
05:44 lhofhansl lemme do that. Will do an extra commit, so the additional changes are obvious.
05:44 Zeno` yeah, it can be squashed later if necessary
05:54 est31 Zeno`: unknown packets are ignored
05:54 est31 you dont need a bump
05:54 Zeno` est31, ok, cool. I thought so but I thought I'd better ask to be sure
05:54 est31 but please only send the changed params in the packet, and not all of them.
05:55 est31 if you think string keys are a problem, make ids instead
05:58 lhofhansl Only the changed ones, but in a fixed packet... Can add to it later for sure, but I'm not going to invent a new mechanism for this. These are special anyway: View parameters, general settings would probably be handled differently more in the way you described... I think this is orthogonal to that.
05:59 Zeno` if this is slated for the upcoming release then we should review, test, test, test and merge as quickly as possible to give it as much exposure on public servers as possible
06:00 Zeno` my quick test (the one that doesn't take hours because of valgrind etc) doesn't show anything unusual
06:01 Zeno` if freeze remains 7th december then I think it should be merged before that
06:01 Zeno` but I'll do extensive tests tonight
06:02 Zeno` well it kinda *has* to be merged before the 7th doesn't it... 'cause of the freeze :)
06:02 Zeno` worst case scenario if it causes unfixable havoc is we revert it. No big deal
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06:07 lhofhansl Zeno`: Yep... Will push update soon. Then you guys can rip it to shreds. :)
06:09 Zeno` I can't get "so far away from me" by dire straits outa my head
06:09 Zeno` and I haven't even heard the song recently :/
06:12 paramat heh that's been happening to me too
06:12 lhofhansl haven't listed to that one for ages :)
06:12 lhofhansl listened
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06:16 Zeno` :)
06:16 Zeno` paramat, there is no need for concern. It's just a symptom of imminent insanity
06:17 lhofhansl doing one last test before pushing
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06:25 lhofhansl pushed... Have a look-see
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08:44 hmmmm i got highlighted here before but my chat log cut it off
08:45 hmmmm who wanted to talk to me...
08:45 hmmmm why does anybody want to talk to me in fact
08:47 VanessaE [11-28 14:53] <paramat> hmmmm #4061 is almost ready you might be interested
08:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4061 -- Add loaded blocks to transforming_liquid-queue similar to updateLiquid by MillersMan
08:48 hmmmm oh jeez a request to review a pr
08:49 hmmmm not quite something that can be done in 15 minutes - that's something for tomorrow
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09:50 rubenwardy game#1429
09:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1429 -- Add sfinv.get_homepage_name() by rubenwardy
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19:04 Guest97633 hello 1 question . How to access global objects in modding ?
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19:05 Guest97633 like player
19:05 Foghrye4__ minetest.get_player(name) or something.
19:06 Guest97633 does not work
19:07 Foghrye4__ Indeed. It is 'minetest.get_player_by_name(name)'
19:07 Foghrye4__ Check lua_api.txt
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19:13 garywhite wb paramat
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19:20 paramat omg boobs in mtgame
19:20 Guest97633 is there a other way to get it . I see people in their mods just use it as a parameter of the function
19:20 Krock paramat, they're rated high.. at least in the nerd IRC channels :P
19:22 Krock Guest97633, either you have a callback, like on_dig or on_inventory_move or you get them with the function said above
19:22 Krock what other way would you like to have?
19:23 Krock minetest.get_player_by_name(minete​st.get_player_by_name("admin"):get​_player_name()):get_player_name()  -> returns "admin", if that player exists
19:24 Guest97633 I try to use the param way but when i use it says tha i am giving player a nil value if i do something like player:hud_add
19:25 Krock this means that the player does not exist
19:25 Krock not exist = is not online
19:26 Guest97633 yes but i use player as a param as i define the function and when i call it . Like I see modders do ,but does not work for me
19:27 sfan5 paramat: re #4817 i definitely prefer the old one https://kitsunemimi.pw/i/6d1a44d6bc9e9410.png
19:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4817 -- Mgv7 floatlands: Various improvements by paramat
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19:29 paramat ok, sorry about that then
19:29 sfan5 also does "Make mountain terrain more exponentially shaped by altering the exponent." make mountains higher?
19:29 paramat it has to merge with base terrain edges so it's essential
19:29 sfan5 they are pretty extreme already imo
19:29 paramat erm
19:29 sfan5 sorry i have no clue about mapgen stuff :P
19:29 Krock IKRadulov, pastebin that stuff so we can debug. Could you please move the discussion to #minetest? Seems like C++ talk is invading here
19:30 IKRadulov ok :D
19:30 paramat exponential shape means that the rim is flatter and wider, then moving towards the mountain centre the height rises exponentially
19:31 sfan5 paramat: is it really essential? sometimes having only layers of stone float around is a nice touch
19:31 sfan5 ah i see
19:31 paramat for that stereotypical 'floating island' shape
19:31 paramat i made it slightly more exponential 0.8 to 0.75
19:33 sfan5 well i'm fine with your pr anyway
19:33 sfan5 even if it changes something i like
19:33 paramat http://i.imgur.com/7VhofVu.png for example this one is very exponential
19:33 paramat ok thanks
19:34 paramat the current lake terrain has a 2 node thick rim so now they merge nicely
19:37 paramat hm i know what you mean about the flat shards of stone, they are nice. however, before this i tried changing lake terrain to have a 1 node thick rim to match mountain terrain, but the flat stone rim looked bad
19:37 paramat .. looked bad around the lake terrain that is
19:38 paramat anyway it's unstable so can be improved in future and i'll keep your preference in mind
19:42 sfan5 mountain changes visualized -> https://kitsunemimi.pw/i/5b8e203454800492.png
19:43 paramat er, so the mountains may occasionally be a little higher and more spiky, only slightly
19:43 Krock trees gone :<
19:43 sfan5 a few subtle changes
19:43 paramat hm looks almost identical
19:44 paramat maybe because this is around density_grad = 1
19:45 paramat no idea why the trees went
19:45 sfan5 those are user-planted
19:45 paramat heh
19:47 paramat you'll notice more change at the rim and at very high mountains
19:47 paramat but it's subtle
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19:52 paramat #4061 just needs another dev to review the code, hmmmm i only notified you in case you were interested in looking, since you have been involved in this before
19:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4061 -- Add loaded blocks to transforming_liquid-queue similar to updateLiquid by MillersMan
19:52 paramat it's well tested
19:52 paramat 1 week to freeze
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20:11 Fixer picture ruined by New and Old fonts
20:11 sfan5 it's my handwriting :)
20:13 Calinou sfan5 Sans MS
20:18 paramat for biomes, i'm considering one last tweak: allow forest density noise to drop lower for less dense and more common 'clearing' type areas. i did this a while ago but it could go a little further
20:19 sfan5 important things still missing from mt_game since years: loot in dungeons
20:22 nrzkt sfan5, right, dungeons are just anoying
20:22 paramat blockmen had a mod for this i think, we could look at that
20:24 paramat but yes i'd be happy with that, get to use gennotify too
20:25 sfan5 also i think releasing a little more often might be beneficial
20:27 paramat at least twice a year
20:29 sfan5 that's not frequent enough
20:30 paramat release is a lot of work, so very often is not good
20:30 sfan5 3 times a year hardly makes a difference to twice
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20:31 paramat yeah, 3 seems ok
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21:51 garywhite I just had an idea: What if you added gold and silver coins to the default minetest_game for easier trade? I know gold coins are already in (I believe) VanessaE's home_decor mod, but I think it'd be much better for trading instead of using ingots on survival servers. I'd be willing to try to make some textures for it
21:54 sfan5 no
21:54 sfan5 you just named an alternative yourself
21:54 sfan5 just trade ingots
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22:11 sofar currency only makes sense if there is a bank
22:11 garywhite I'm saying like, 2 coins would make an ingot
22:11 nrzkt or a bourse
22:12 Fixer don't
22:12 Fixer i'm waiting for italia bank crisis
22:12 Fixer deutschebank crisis
22:12 Fixer let it burn
22:12 sofar I'd consider gold nuggets as an addition
22:12 sofar but not coins
22:13 Fixer sofar: ingots are good enough in game, only items that usually cost less than ingot is food, sticks, cobble
22:13 paramat mese crystal fragment was partly meant as a possible currency
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22:19 Fixer never seen people trading with it %)
22:19 sofar the problem with mese is that it isn't an ingredient to something desirable
22:19 sofar at least carts made it a bit more desirable
22:20 sofar gold and diamonds however make good swords
22:20 sofar but we have no monsters :)
22:20 rubenwardy mese was traded on redcrab
22:20 rubenwardy iron ingots where the currency
22:20 Fixer it is ingridient for protector on jt ii
22:20 rubenwardy With a little digging I may be able to find a prices list for the top 3 stores
22:21 rubenwardy oh, this isn't #minetest
22:23 rubenwardy +1 to loot in dungeons
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22:42 Fixer paramat: why can't we have more variants of same tree? so mapgen could randomly pick different schematic from say 3 variants of apple or aspen or whatever
22:43 Fixer just brainstorming
22:53 rubenwardy game#1429
22:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1429 -- Add sfinv.get_homepage_name() by rubenwardy
22:56 Fixer rubenwardy: ty
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23:10 paramat Fixer that has been suggested
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