Time  Nick        Message
08:21 Zeno`       paramat, #4769
08:22 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4769 -- Credit where credit is due
08:22 Zeno`       paramat I don't think every single person needs to be named at all
08:22 paramat     ok
08:22 Zeno`       but why is the work that server operators etc do not exceptional?
08:23 Zeno`       maybe we don't need to dedicate the release to them
08:23 Zeno`       but just add some kind of "thanks"
08:23 Zeno`       that can stay forever
08:23 paramat     hm well by definition all of them can't be exceptional ;]
08:24 Zeno`       minetest gets boring pretty quickly without those people running MP servers :)
08:25 paramat     yeah, anyway i'm not particularly opposed
08:26 Zeno`       :)
08:26 Zeno`       apart from the monetary cost of running a server, it can take a lot of time as well (I know, I ran a semi-popular server for quite a while)
08:27 Zeno`       onwards and upwards
08:27 * Zeno`     reviews some PRs
09:00 paramat     #4742 seems good
09:00 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4742 -- Fix crash when attached object no longer exists by Rogier-5
09:03 Zeno`       yes
09:03 Zeno`       added my tick
09:08 paramat     #4608 seems good +1
09:08 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4608 -- Install texture_packs.txt to DOCDIR by yyt16384
09:10 nrzkt       merging #4742
09:10 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4742 -- Fix crash when attached object no longer exists by Rogier-5
09:10 Zeno`       paramat, +1
09:11 Zeno`       nrzkt, to save confusion you should probably have left that to the person who brought it up (in this case paramat) :P~~~~
09:11 red-001     could someone take a look at #4472 ?
09:11 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4472 -- Make serverlist searchable. by red-001
09:11 nrzkt       Zeno`, because i have a request changes tag on this PR i removed it and merge :)
09:11 nrzkt       it's a trivial fix
09:12 nrzkt       #4608 can be merged now paramat it's trivial
09:12 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4608 -- Install texture_packs.txt to DOCDIR by yyt16384
09:12 Zeno`       nrzkt, I know. But say paramat was modifying a local copy (for some bizarre reason) of the diff?
09:13 Zeno`       it wouldn't be likely for 4742, but lol... a more complicated merge might
09:13 Zeno`       anyway, just thought it worth mentioning
09:14 paramat     i won't be merging anything for an hour, and will always warn first
09:16 paramat     i'm working on my mgv7 floatland PR, hopefully will merge that within a week
09:17 Zeno`       yep
09:17 Zeno`       merge that other one though
09:18 Zeno`       4608
09:18 Zeno`       or nrzkt can merge it
09:18 Zeno`       I just can't atm :(
09:18 Zeno`       github is being stupidly slow
09:18 nrzkt       param i can merge 4608 if you are okay
09:21 paramat     yeah go ahead, i have to eat now
09:21 paramat     there are some others too
09:21 nrzkt       done
09:22 paramat     hm i'd really like #2827
09:22 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2827 -- Allow overriding the hand by TeTpaAka
09:23 Zeno`       2827?
09:23 Zeno`       how old is that?!
09:23 paramat     but i'm still trying to work out how to use it
09:23 paramat     .. so i can test it
09:23 Zeno`       hehe
09:24 Zeno`       I am being invaded by flying ants! (termites)
09:38 Foghrye4_   Ok, while paramat has quit would someone be so kind to remove [Controversal] [Needs improvement] and [Won't add] labels from #4705
09:39 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4705 -- Adding particle blend, glow and animation by Foghrye4
09:45 est31       mhh arent ants and termites of different anchestry?
09:45 est31       yes
09:46 est31       termites are related to cockroaches and ants are related to wasps and bees
09:47 Zeno`       ok smarty
09:47 Zeno`       you're right :P
09:47 Zeno`       Foghrye4_, why do we have to remove them while paramat is absent?
09:48 Foghrye4_   Zeno, to avoid "labels war" and to merge it before paramat complain.
09:49 Zeno`       I'll remove "won't add" but not the others
09:50 Foghrye4_   Why not? [Needs improvement] is a bullshit as well.
09:50 Zeno`       I haven't reviewed it fully
09:51 Zeno`       (heck, I'm still reading the comments hehe)
09:51 Foghrye4_   est31 and sfan5 already reviewed it.
09:51 Zeno`       yeah and hmmmm (kwoleker) has made some points against adding it
09:51 Zeno`       I need to review myself as well
09:52 Zeno`       I removed the "Won't Add" because from what I currently see the label wasn't appropriate
09:52 Foghrye4_   kwoleker thinks blend is an Irrlicht feature. And this is a terrible mestake.
09:52 Foghrye4_   *mistake
09:53 Zeno`       possibly. As I said I haven't reviewed it myself yet
09:53 Zeno`       I don't like "blocking" PRs
09:54 Foghrye4_   Yeah, me too ^^
09:54 Zeno`       but with this many comments... well, I have to read them all and do a full review before I can just remove labels willy nilly
09:54 Zeno`       I hope you can understand that :(
09:54 Foghrye4_   It would be pleasure for me, if you read them and make your decision.
09:55 Zeno`       gosh, you've put a lot of work into it
09:55 Zeno`       even documentation
09:55 Foghrye4_   Indeed.
09:56 Foghrye4_   And still paramat can't understand how it works. Even with all documentation.
09:56 Zeno`       what's paramat's main concern with it?
09:57 est31       I think he doesnt like it because it only adds visual candy
09:57 Zeno`       (in your opinion)
09:57 est31       and paramat hates visual candy
09:57 Zeno`       well, that's not a valid reason to block a PR
09:57 est31       if it were for him, all blocks would look the same
09:57 Foghrye4_   He don't understand how blend works and did not know how disabling z-buffer write affect translucent particles display.
09:57 est31       nodes*
09:58 Foghrye4_   Therefore he don't want to add something, he could not understand.
09:58 Foghrye4_   And yes, he hates eye candy ^^
09:59 Zeno`       ok, I agree that the objections seem a bit "without substance"
09:59 Zeno`       I would still like more time to review it more if that's ok
10:00 Foghrye4_   What if i told you "No, its not ok. MERGE IT NOW!". Of course its OK.
10:02 Zeno`       I'm going to remove "Needs Improvement" as well
10:02 Foghrye4_   Hooray!
10:02 Zeno`       from a very quick review i'm not sure what exactly needs improving
10:04 sfan5       Foghrye4_: "there are 2 reviews -> we merge it 100%" isn't a thing
10:04 sfan5       if there are reasonable concerns from another coredev they have to be addressed
10:05 Zeno`       correct
10:05 Zeno`       and the main person I want to speak to in this instance is hmmmm
10:06 Zeno`       personally I like the PR from what I can see so far
10:08 Zeno`       but as sfan so correctly pointed out, it's not just up to me
10:09 Foghrye4_   Sofar will be happy as well.
10:09 Zeno`       why? :)
10:09 Foghrye4_   ... with latest changes I made. He wants "vertical frames" animation support.
10:10 Foghrye4_   And I made it. No other complains.
10:10 Zeno`       ok, well. I'll speak to hmmmm
10:10 Zeno`       the PR is not "Won't Close" now
10:10 Zeno`       I think it should be merged
10:10 Zeno`       but I want to discuss some things with hmmmm first
10:11 Zeno`       err not "Won't add"
10:15 sfan5       hm, why aren't our clouds transparent?
10:15 sfan5       they are in minecraft :P -> http://i.imgur.com/2DGhvsZ.png
10:21 est31       there are transparent too, no?
10:21 * est31     checks
10:22 est31       they are indeed
10:23 est31       http://pasteboard.co/qH0fX83cV.png
10:24 est31       http://pasteboard.co/qH0ucggf8.png
10:29 * Zeno`     confused now
10:36 Krock       ^ http://i.imgur.com/aWwFmDn.gif
10:43 Zeno`       lol
10:46 celeron55   why isn't minetest made in C++
10:47 celeron55   ok, i guess i'm being rude now
10:49 * Zeno`     plays the celeron55 song
10:50 Krock       huh?
10:50 celeron55   :D
10:53 sfan5       est31: they are not transparent enough then
11:12 est31       mhh I think this last comment from paramat raises some valid points
11:12 est31       that it is hard to understand for minetest modders
11:13 Foghrye4_   Thats no justify removing it from Lua API. If I could understand it, some people also could.
11:14 Foghrye4_   *not
11:14 est31       well one of the places minetest is prefered over minecraft is in schools where kids learn to program
11:15 est31       minetest has very few advantages over minecraft other than the license
11:15 est31       lets cling to those we have
11:15 Foghrye4_   Well, in that case we give those kids opportunity to improve their understanding of 3d graphics.
11:16 Foghrye4_   We are not forcing anyone to use any feature.
11:16 Foghrye4_   We just give them an option.
11:34 Zeno`       sofar, what are your main objections to #4705?
11:34 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4705 -- Adding particle blend, glow and animation by Foghrye4
11:35 Foghrye4_   Sofar is here?
11:35 Zeno`       well his nick is here
11:36 Foghrye4_   I pind him yesterday and leave PM, but he still did not reply.
11:36 Foghrye4_   *ping.
11:36 Zeno`       he might be having a very long sleep
11:36 Foghrye4_   I hope he did not die behind his keyboard.
11:37 Zeno`       no. the parrot is not dead. it's just sleeping
11:38 Zeno`       the only person here who might "get" that comment is probably Krock lol
11:38 Krock       I bet there are others too
11:38 Zeno`       brb, checking my shrubbery
11:45 Zeno`       i did wee wee on it
11:45 * Zeno`     giggles
12:09 Zeno`       will merge #4705 in 1 hour
12:09 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4705 -- Adding particle blend, glow and animation by Foghrye4
12:11 sfan5       Zeno`: what about hmmmms concerns?
12:12 Zeno`       the don't seem relevant
12:12 Zeno`       they*
12:14 Zeno`       sfan5, do they seem compelling objections to you?
12:36 sfan5       Zeno`: yes
12:39 Foghrye4_   sfan5, where I can read hmmmms concerns?
12:40 sfan5       https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4705#issuecomment-258316096
12:40 Foghrye4_   >these are my first general impressions.
12:41 sfan5       does that make that comment invalid or unimportant?
12:41 Foghrye4_   He thinks blend is Irrlicht feature, but it is not. Its already was negotiated.
12:43 sfan5       i'd like to see an approval / "withdrawal" of his concern before we merge this
12:43 Foghrye4_   oh, noes...
12:45 est31       I agree with sfan5
12:46 Zeno`       yes ok
12:46 Zeno`       I will wait to talk with hmmmm
12:47 Zeno`       I kinda said that already which is why I said an hour (I thought he'd be here by now)
12:48 * Foghrye4_ sigh in frustration
12:48 Zeno`       but ya know what?
12:48 sfan5       Foghrye4_: that's how the rules are
12:48 Zeno`       just because hmmmm objects to something doesn't mean that the PR cannot be merged
12:49 Zeno`       as talented as he is, and I respect him very much, he's not the "gatekeeper"
12:49 Zeno`       where if he says no, it means somethign cannot be merged
12:50 est31       sfan5: about the cloud opacity, I'm okay with the current opacity
12:50 est31       I don't think we should change it just for the sake of being more similar to minecraft
12:50 sfan5       maybe we can add an option for cloud opacity
12:51 est31       good idea
12:52 Foghrye4_   It could be wonderful, if we could add some "decorative scene node" which is rendered independed from distance and active block range.
12:52 Foghrye4_   For planets, clouds, satellites and such.
12:53 sfan5       that would be absolutely horrible
12:53 est31       yes
12:53 Foghrye4_   Why?
12:53 sfan5       the mapblocks might not be loaded, might be unloaded
12:53 est31       in the ideal case, planets are simply just VAEs
12:53 sfan5       you don't get changes for far away mapblocks
12:53 sfan5       etc.
12:53 est31       and we manage to somehow render lots of stuff from a big distance
12:53 Foghrye4_   This should not be saved in map blocks.
12:54 sfan5       but then it's not a node
12:54 Foghrye4_   How its called in Irrlicht?
12:55 Foghrye4_   An object inside scene?
12:56 Foghrye4_   Aha, its called "Scene node", sorry.
12:56 Foghrye4_   http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/classirr_1_1scene_1_1_i_scene_node.html
12:59 Foghrye4_   Definitely creating such objects and control behavior would fit good in client side API.
12:59 Foghrye4_   (*of them)
12:59 sfan5       a server side api could do this too
12:59 sfan5       and that even could be done right now
13:00 sfan5       instead of waiting for client side modding to get added somewhen
14:05 Foghrye4_   Here is a kahrl mentioning that we could cause client crash by assigning incorrect material param value. I could add a check on client or on server side, but any additional check will add a little bit CPU load. What you opinion?
14:05 Foghrye4_   *your
14:05 Foghrye4_   *opinions
14:06 Foghrye4_   And of course I'm about #4705
14:06 ShadowBot   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4705 -- Adding particle blend, glow and animation by Foghrye4
14:08 est31       Foghrye4_: do it server side and do it client side
14:09 est31       both sides are important
14:09 Foghrye4_   Roger that.
14:09 est31       server side for helping mod developers
14:09 est31       client side for ensuring safety
14:10 est31       best option client side would be to ignore it and print something to error or warningstream
15:28 Zeno`       guys I've asked Shara here to share her concerns
15:29 Shara       Hi all. Please blame Zeno` for me poking my nose in here. :)
15:29 Zeno`       you're welcome here anytime you like, Shara
15:29 Shara       I've been getting players on my server who report they cannot use the fly priv on their app unless they pay, despite me granting the priv by default.
15:30 Shara       They are usually children, so it can be difficult to get many details from them.
15:30 Shara       But it seems many of them are ipad users, so there is no official client for me to direct them to instead.
15:30 Zeno`       celeron55, with the current license can anything be done about this?
15:31 Zeno`       or, alternatively, is an official ipad client within our grasp? (I dunno the answer)
15:33 Shara       As much as I don't want to recommend an unofficial client, even knowing one that doesn't have this kind of issue to tell them to look for would be an improvement.
15:36 Fixer       i made long 2 wide stairs down to my deep mine, and now I can't get up, keep getting stuck in those stairs all the time, please fix this bullshit
15:37 celeron55   Zeno`: well as far as i know, LGPL is illegal in the app store
15:38 Zeno`       Shara, are they getting the app from the app store?
15:39 celeron55   there does exist a source of funds that might possibly allow paying someone to make an official iOS port of minetest or maybe buying one of the existing ones
15:39 Shara       I am assuming from the app store. They are children so I don't know what else they would be doing. (note that I don't use tablets to play myself, so might be missing something obvious in this assumption)
15:41 Shara       celeron55: One of the players with this issue last night told me it was the Exploration app.
15:42 nrzkt       just nuke those fucking clones which doesn't participate to the devel
15:45 est31       its a double edged sword
15:45 est31       on one hand, these people are bad, because they worsen the experience for the players
15:45 est31       on the other hand, they are the reason those players play minetest the first place
15:48 Shara       As someone who covers the cost of running a server, though I don't object to that cost itself, it's very disheartening to have other people profit so children can play on my server the way I intend them to.
15:49 OldCoder
15:49 OldCoder    Wait, this part about LGPL illegal in the app store - is this something we didn't know before?
15:49 OldCoder    est31's point is noted but - and I have talked politely with some of the publishers - nuke them
15:50 OldCoder    Nuke now. I'm tired today and can't do the filings. But I will if nobody else will this month.
15:50 OldCoder    The deciding point for me is that some of these packages...
15:51 OldCoder    Do not even credit the parent project. They have screenshots of my worlds
15:51 OldCoder    and yours
15:51 OldCoder    as though these are *their* creations - the software and the worlds
15:51 OldCoder    Take them down, please
15:51 OldCoder
15:51 OldCoder    Shara, celeron55, Zeno` ^
15:52 Zeno`       I tend to agree
15:52 Fixer       if it is illegal - nuke them
15:52 OldCoder    sfan5, new discussion of this issue ^
15:52 Zeno`       if it really is illegal (I dunno) then nuke 'em
15:52 est31       nuke all illegal forks of minetest
15:52 OldCoder    Yes and no on illegal as in prosecutable - C55 assume holds copyright
15:52 Zeno`       if it *is* legal then we need our own official client
15:53 OldCoder    LGPL does not waive copyright - or it may assign copyright to FSF
15:53 OldCoder    Zeno`, if the actual rights holder...
15:53 Shara       Any app that is looking to profit in such ways... I'd love to see nuked.
15:53 est31       obviously, it doesn't waive copyright
15:53 OldCoder    One of the GPLs does transfer copyright IIRC to FSF
15:53 est31       we can only nuke illegal apps
15:53 Zeno`       but do we have the resources to build an ios client?
15:53 OldCoder    I doubt LGPL does
15:53 est31       and those should be IMO
15:53 Shara       But problem remains that ipad needs a 'good' option.
15:53 est31       and if its illegal to have an ios client, then all ios clients should be nuked
15:53 est31       simple as that
15:54 OldCoder    Anyway the clones are at least technically illegal as in violations of copyright law
15:54 OldCoder    BUT
15:54 est31       yes
15:54 Zeno`       if it's illegal someone should complain
15:54 Zeno`       preferably c55
15:54 OldCoder    there are multiple factors involved in terms of "illegal"
15:54 Zeno`       because all our work is transferred to him at the end of the day
15:54 sfan5       celeron55: did you say "official ios port"? https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/tree/ios_new
15:55 OldCoder    Zeno`, Google will take complaints from involved parties
15:55 OldCoder    Both sfan5 IIRC and I have done filings before
15:55 est31       We could still have an official ios app on the app store, even when we use the argument of ios apps being illegal
15:55 est31       to take down forks
15:55 sfan5       est31: the issue with lgpl and app store remains
15:56 est31       sfan5: we simply hope that nobody who owns copyright on minetest tries to take down the official client
15:56 est31       its not a good state to be in, but better than nothing
15:56 sfan5       well who owns the copyright?
15:57 est31       subset of these people I guess https://github.com/minetest/minetest/graphs/contributors
15:57 est31       https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors
15:57 OldCoder    Hm - Or is it C55 ?
15:57 OldCoder    The contributors can file; his email can be included on contacts list
15:57 sfan5       hm yeah
15:57 est31       dunno, I'm not a lawyer
15:57 OldCoder    This satisfies Google requirements
15:57 sfan5       in theory each one of those could send a dmca
15:58 OldCoder    I spoke with the iOS desk once; they seemed amenable to complaints
15:58 OldCoder    We've done this before - I gather there is new interest - scrolling up...
15:59 OldCoder    C55 has noted something that seems to be new. I gather we haven't specifically mentioned LGPL to Google before. But there are FOSS apps in the Play Store...
15:59 OldCoder    celeron55, can you elaborate on the LGPL point you made earlier?
16:00 est31       the problem is that the app store basically enforces static linking
16:00 OldCoder    Hm; how are FOSS apps on it?
16:00 est31       you may not submit which use dynamic linking
16:00 est31       submit apps*
16:00 OldCoder    Are ALL GPL FOSS apps there inappropriate?
16:01 est31       yes
16:01 OldCoder    Whoa
16:01 est31       VLC player got thrown off apple app store
16:01 est31       because of GPL
16:01 OldCoder    What about
16:01 est31       then they rewrote everything under mpl...
16:01 OldCoder    Play Store - VLC is there now
16:01 OldCoder    Ahh
16:01 est31       and play store is a different matter
16:01 est31       there you are allowed to use dynamic linking
16:02 OldCoder    est31, what of C55 remarks then?
16:02 OldCoder    Is LGPL per se
16:02 OldCoder    not an issue for Play Store?
16:02 est31       no its fine
16:02 OldCoder    So, there is not really new information related to Google...
16:03 est31       I'm not sure tbh whether you can put purely LGPL  licensed stuff on the apple app store
16:03 OldCoder    Just some interest. Does anybody wish to help with takedown of Exploration?
16:03 est31       that may even work
16:03 sfan5       est31: the problems arise from the "allow the user to use different libraries" clause, right?
16:03 est31       sfan5: I think so.
16:03 est31       but the other clauses can cause problems too
16:04 est31       its all a matter of interpretation
16:05 sfan5       which others?
16:05 est31       "For an executable, the required form of the "work that uses the Library" must include any data and utility programs needed for reproducing the executable from it."
16:05 est31       this may pose a problem with app signing
16:05 est31       but idk, I'm no lawyer
16:06 est31       the license text continues
16:06 est31       "
16:06 est31       It may happen that this requirement contradicts the license restrictions of other proprietary libraries that do not normally accompany the operating system. Such a contradiction means you cannot use both them and the Library together in an executable that you distribute. "
16:06 OldCoder    Wait
16:06 OldCoder    So technically
16:07 sfan5       the first one sounds like you should include the build system
16:07 OldCoder    Well, I dispute the FSF position that dynamic linking is the same as static
16:07 OldCoder    But
16:07 sfan5       and not just throw a few source files at the user
16:07 OldCoder    If you accept that position
16:07 OldCoder    Almost no LGPL or GPL apps should be legal
16:07 OldCoder    Am I missing something?
16:07 est31       sfan5: that's what its made for
16:07 OldCoder    Unless they are built with a pure FOSS framework
16:08 sfan5       est31: IANAL but i'm pretty sure they don't mean that you should include gcc, the linux kernel and a coupon to buy a computer with that
16:08 est31       OldCoder: the license also says " However, as a special exception, the materials to be distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable. "
16:08 sfan5       so it should be fine
16:08 OldCoder    Right, est31 but don't...
16:08 sfan5       ah they even have some text for that
16:08 OldCoder    many Play Store apps link against other stuff?
16:09 sfan5       hm
16:09 sfan5       est31: actually why could every single minetest contributor dmca a minetest app?
16:09 sfan5       their contributions are licensed under lgpl, as long as that is followed
16:10 est31       as long as lgpl is followed nobody can be dmca'd
16:10 est31       I suggested to put an official app on the play store that is tolerated or not known about by all minetest contributors
16:11 est31       and dmca'ing all other apps on the app store
16:11 est31       s/play/app/
16:11 red-001     not a bad plan
16:11 sfan5       this isn't an issue with the play store as far as i'm aware
16:12 sfan5       the problem occurs when you try to publish to the app store (iOS)
16:12 est31       yes, its its no issue with the play store.
16:12 est31       thats why I said s/play/app/
16:12 est31       :)
16:12 red-001     I used to have a list of all minetest clones on the app store
16:13 est31       It may theoretically even be legal to put something LGPL licensed on the app store
16:13 est31       as long as the whole app is lgpl licensed
16:13 est31       no proprietary components
16:14 est31       but I'm not really sure
16:14 sfan5       there are none
16:14 est31       all the info I can find on the net is about using LGPL licensed libraries alongside proprietary ones, or inside proprietary apps
16:15 est31       but we have a completely LGPL'd (or LGPL-able like for irrlicht/libvorbis etc) codebase
16:16 sfan5       on iOS static linking is required for: Irrlicht, freetype, leveldb, ogg/vorbis
16:16 est31       all these things have non copyleft licenses
16:17 sfan5       you can even drop the last three if you don't want sound, nice fonts or leveldb
16:21 est31       http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement
16:21 red-001     found the list of clones: http://pastebin.com/tSscP1QV
16:21 est31       this "You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein." is part of the LGPL too
16:22 sfan5       well that clause is impossible to fulfil with app store
16:39 OldCoder    Next steps?
16:41 celeron55   basically, apple users are screwed like they have always been and always will be
16:42 celeron55   more news at 11
16:42 celeron55   too bad they're kids
16:43 celeron55   it'll be a long lesson 8)
20:45 red-001     so it is not possible to have an official build in the app store?
20:49 Calinou     red-001: iOS App Store? nope, it's not possible
20:50 Calinou     Mac App Store probably as well
21:35 KaadmY      in doc/lua_api.txt: "You can send such improvements as source code patches to <email>."
21:36 KaadmY      should that be changed to say do a PR on github