Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-08-28

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 paramat i would love that
00:03 paramat it would fit with c55's roadmap too about universality
00:03 rubenwardy yeah, exactly
00:03 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
00:03 rubenwardy ages ago I was talking to PilzAdam in PM about a gravity system
00:03 rubenwardy Mods would register point masses
00:04 rubenwardy and there could be linear gravity points
00:04 rubenwardy for games like most which have a normal MT world
00:05 rubenwardy gravity would be 9.81 at y=0, and decrease when going either direction
00:05 rubenwardy although it would decrease more going up than going down
00:05 rubenwardy as in, there would be less gravity at 30000 than at -30000
00:05 rubenwardy ideas are cheap though
00:05 agrecascino how would i add a network opcode?
00:06 paramat are you thinking gravity has 6 directions only? i think that's better
00:06 rubenwardy agrecascino: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/​master/src/network/networkprotocol.h#L607
00:06 agrecascino thanks
00:07 rubenwardy I think
00:07 rubenwardy paramat, they're be two types of gravity. Linear gravity is for masses whose centres are off map, for example the main world. For things like moons there could be point gravity, so at the center
00:08 rubenwardy problem with 6-dir gravity is the transition when at the edges
00:08 rubenwardy by linear gravity I mean the direction is always down, because the center of the earth is "infinitely" down wards
00:08 agrecascino i don't really understand 3d collision math, so i can't help you on this
00:08 rubenwardy as compared to point gravity
00:09 rubenwardy I understand the gravity equations
00:09 rubenwardy I wrote a HTML5 sim: http://physics.rubenwardy.co​m/sims/gravity/gravity.html
00:09 rubenwardy but it won't be as easy as that in MT due to how physics doesn't use forces
00:11 paramat there's a voxel game called stellar overload which has cubic planets and 6-fold gravity
00:12 paramat gravity flips at planet edges
00:12 rubenwardy for cube gravity that would make sense
00:12 rubenwardy I actually thing that makes the most sense in a voxel world
00:13 rubenwardy although, what happens if the player erodes the edges?
00:13 T4im wouldn't that still be point gravity, just made discrete?
00:13 rubenwardy maybe make the cube big enough
00:13 paramat gravity direction would be determined by diagonal planes emerging from centre
00:14 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
00:15 rubenwardy Another topic: what would be the most feasible way to add syntax highlighting to a formspec?
00:15 rubenwardy Thinking about making an educational subgame to teach people how to program
00:15 rubenwardy would also be useful for Lua controllers from mesecons
00:16 paramat https://www.youtube.com/user/PlanetsCube/videos
00:17 TheReaperKing rubenwardy: I'd be super interested
00:17 agrecascino is there a command to force a client to unload an object?
00:17 agrecascino opcode*
00:17 rubenwardy TheReaperKing, for an educational subgame?
00:17 TheReaperKing Some of my students and I have started to try to use them but haven't gotten them working
00:18 TheReaperKing I would really love for them to be able to program with Lua in game
00:18 TheReaperKing We haven't tried much, just to get that time sensor tutorial working
00:18 TheReaperKing I did get it to print a message to the console correctly
00:19 TheReaperKing We are still in the design unit so I haven't put that much time into it, but they'll definitely be learning lua one way or another
00:19 TheReaperKing and me too hehe
00:20 TheReaperKing I actually found this program that uses scratch like blocks and then it converts it to lua
00:20 TheReaperKing so we can go scratch, blocky, to full on lua
00:20 TheReaperKing or maybe even just start lua
00:21 TheReaperKing this is the one I tried but couldn't get to work, could never get the LCD to display
00:21 TheReaperKing http://mesecons.net/digilines.html
00:26 TheReaperKing I'll be working on the other tutorials for sure though.  I wonder if you could even save script files to file in game
00:36 Hijiri how does the server keep track of what keys players are pressing?
00:36 Hijiri for example, in get_control
00:37 Hijiri I was thinking of how to implement "extra keybindings", where the player could bind "real keys" to keys like "extra 1", "extra 2", etc. The basic idea was described by Wuzzy on the forums
00:38 Hijiri Then on top of that you could write a mod that would handle allocating the numerical keys to mods that request it
00:38 Hijiri (or it could be part of the core lua)
00:42 raingloom joined #minetest-dev
00:44 Hijiri well keyPressed has room for 23 more keys
00:44 Hijiri are there any plans to use them for anything?
00:57 Hijiri actually maybe it would be better to have a separate packet type for extra key press/release events?
00:58 Hijiri or update or whatever, in case you don't want the loss of a release event to break stuff
00:59 Hijiri alternatively #3777 would be something compatible with devices that don't use the keyboard
00:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3777 -- API for adding arbitrary elements to the hotbar
00:59 Hijiri It would be harder to implement though, but you could use item definitions for the extra elements
01:09 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
01:26 STHGOM joined #minetest-dev
01:26 STHGOM joined #minetest-dev
01:44 Hijiri also it wouldn't provide everything that controls do
01:46 paramat joined #minetest-dev
02:00 nnnn20430 joined #minetest-dev
02:19 betterthanyou711 joined #minetest-dev
02:21 ssieb joined #minetest-dev
02:44 ssieb joined #minetest-dev
02:58 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
03:04 agrecascino paramat, do you know how minetest's networking works?
03:07 paramat no, sorry
03:21 Hasan2 joined #minetest-dev
03:24 froike- joined #minetest-dev
03:25 Twirlimp_ joined #minetest-dev
03:25 thatgraemeguy_ joined #minetest-dev
03:25 thatgraemeguy_ joined #minetest-dev
03:26 friti joined #minetest-dev
03:27 exoplanet joined #minetest-dev
03:27 exoplanet joined #minetest-dev
03:27 exoplanet joined #minetest-dev
03:27 dmurph joined #minetest-dev
03:29 VargaD joined #minetest-dev
03:29 misprint joined #minetest-dev
03:47 agrecascino does anyone understand the networking in minetest well?
03:50 \o` joined #minetest-dev
03:51 endev15 joined #minetest-dev
03:56 octacian joined #minetest-dev
03:58 paramat some devs do yes
04:02 octacian joined #minetest-dev
04:20 agrecascino alright
04:20 agrecascino if anybody knows
04:20 agrecascino how does damage and or object unloading work on serverside
04:20 agrecascino thanks
04:33 Miner_48er joined #minetest-dev
05:13 paramat left #minetest-dev
06:06 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
06:06 Hunterz joined #minetest-dev
06:56 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
06:57 red-001 could something be done about #3900?
06:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001
07:17 damiel_ joined #minetest-dev
07:49 Gundul joined #minetest-dev
07:57 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
08:02 davisonio joined #minetest-dev
08:18 sofar joined #minetest-dev
08:20 Krock joined #minetest-dev
09:13 damiel_ joined #minetest-dev
09:55 T4im joined #minetest-dev
10:08 Darcidride joined #minetest-dev
10:19 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
10:25 ensonic joined #minetest-dev
10:26 ensonic hi, can a texturepack override textures from a mod?
10:27 Krock yes, that's its purpose
10:27 Krock it can also replace model textures
10:28 * ensonic is hacking on mcresconvert and mcimport
10:28 ensonic the mine-trek voyager already looks quite good
10:29 Krock make it so, Chackotey.
10:34 ensonic :)
10:48 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
11:29 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
12:41 AnotherBrick joined #minetest-dev
12:43 davisonio joined #minetest-dev
12:44 rubenwardy joined #minetest-dev
12:55 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
13:26 raingloom joined #minetest-dev
13:26 Robby joined #minetest-dev
13:35 STHGOM joined #minetest-dev
13:35 STHGOM joined #minetest-dev
13:42 Fixer !seem MillersMan
13:42 Fixer !seen MillersMan
13:42 ShadowBot Fixer: I saw MillersMan in #minetest-dev 8 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 25 minutes, and 32 seconds ago saying "Maybe the wrong time to ask this but: Is there any interest in having a generic base-implementation for mapgens that work similar to my Canyon mapgen?"
13:43 Fixer crap, now water reflow is in limbo too
13:45 red-001 water reflow?
13:45 red-001 related to the ignore bugs?
13:46 red-001 is that the pr that reflowed the water on block load?
13:46 red-001 !seen red-001
13:46 ShadowBot red-001: I saw red-001 in #minetest-dev 0 seconds ago saying "!seen red-001"
13:47 red-001 !seen davisonio
13:47 ShadowBot red-001: I saw davisonio in #minetest-dev 7 weeks, 3 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, and 34 seconds ago saying "seems like the docs are at https://lgtm.co/docs/install/ instead"
13:47 red-001 !seen book`
13:47 ShadowBot red-001: I haven't seen book` in #minetest-dev.
13:47 red-001 !seen book
13:47 ShadowBot red-001: I haven't seen book in #minetest-dev.
14:05 Wuzzy joined #minetest-dev
14:06 Wuzzy I noticed something odd in Minetest Game 0.4.14: The xpane nodes have buildable_to set to true
14:06 Wuzzy but in-game, they don't behave like buildable_to normally do: building does not replace them, and falling nodes do not go through and destroy them
14:07 Wuzzy anyone knows why buildable_to was set to true for these nodes?
14:10 Wuzzy actually, the whole pane_def_fields in the xpanes mod seems very odd: drawtype = "airlike", walkable = false, etc.
14:23 blaze joined #minetest-dev
14:31 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
14:36 KaadmY joined #minetest-dev
14:41 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
14:49 pperron joined #minetest-dev
14:49 rubenwardy Does anyone know about service broadcasting over LAN? I was thinking about whether it could be possible to auto detect servers on your LAN network and show them in the server list
14:49 rubenwardy looks like this might be what I'm looking for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si​mple_Service_Discovery_Protocol
14:50 rubenwardy usecase: to make it easier for technonoobs to setup a local server, they won't need to open a terminal an find their ip then
14:50 rubenwardy *and
14:52 raingloom joined #minetest-dev
14:53 celeron55 it has been talked before and is just a matter of making the client send some broadcast packets
14:53 ensonic rubenwardy, the easiest 'solution' is to put a static xml file into /etc/avahi/services/ (on linux)
14:54 celeron55 and making the server understand them and respond to them
14:55 ensonic rubenwardy, but we'd need to define a service type so that clients would discover server annoucements
14:55 ensonic this would be using mdns
14:55 rubenwardy celeron55: would you be able to give me some names to research?
14:55 ensonic celeron55, why invent some new discovery mechanism?
14:57 twoelk joined #minetest-dev
14:57 ensonic here are some sample xml files for static announcements: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/avahi#NFS, doing this dynamically when the server starts is much nicer of course
14:57 celeron55 ensonic: windows?
14:57 celeron55 ensonic: android?
14:57 celeron55 ensonic: something else than linux?
14:57 ensonic celeron55, zeroconf/bonjour works on all those platforms
14:58 ensonic celeron55, the static conf was only meant as an example
14:58 rubenwardy a solution should be as automatic as possible - the server owner is likely to just be hosting using the server tab
14:58 celeron55 well i don't have time to research this but if it's something that every user can use, then whatever
14:59 celeron55 it should work out of the box on every platform
14:59 celeron55 udp does, that i do know
15:00 ensonic rubenwardy, the server would announce itself via broadcast when the start and upon scan requests from clients, client would when starting send a disover req and add minetest server from the local net to the server list
15:01 rubenwardy ahh, there's a broadcast address on the network!
15:01 rubenwardy that makes things a lot easier
15:01 ensonic celeron55, mdns uses udp, it is quite close to dns (udp/53) but uses (udp/5353) - it is also not very complicated, we could have a built-in fallback, I wrote mdns stacks in js in not too many lines of code :)
15:02 rubenwardy it would be as simple as the client sending a packet (or a few incase the first fails due to udp) and the server listening for broadcast packets, and sending a "hello! I'm here!" packet to the client when it hears one
15:04 rubenwardy now I just need to try and setup a virtual LAN network using VMs so I can test...
15:09 twoelk would the client only search on start up? maybe each time the serverlist is called or have a search now button?
15:16 agrecascino joined #minetest-dev
15:25 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
15:30 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
15:37 Calinou there should be a refresh button in server list anyway
15:46 agrecascino anyone here understand minetest's networking?
15:47 Wuzzy Is it a bug that falling nodes can go through walkable nodes if the walkable node has buildable_to=true?
15:54 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
16:02 red-001 #4472
16:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4472 -- Make serverlist searchable. by red-001
16:06 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
16:12 twoelk uhm load http://servers.minetest.net/list and use your browsers search function
16:12 Krock not very handy on smartphones
16:21 red-001 twoelk might as well remove the serverlist
16:21 red-001 after all you can just copy the port and address
16:22 twoelk in contrast to their german colloquial name I don't think mobile phones are really handy anyways
16:24 red-001 I thought shadowbot generated different links for prs and issues?
16:24 red-001 when did this change?
16:26 red-001 e.g it used github/minetest/minetest/pull/ for pr's and github.com/minetest/minetest/issue for issues
16:26 rubenwardy I don't think it matters
16:27 rubenwardy How do I include changes from upstream/master into my origin/patch-1? Is it git pull --rebase upstream master
16:27 rubenwardy I can never remember
16:28 celeron55 if you want to "move" the patch commits to come after master commits, that would do it
16:28 rubenwardy yeah, that's what I want
16:28 celeron55 umm... maybe
16:28 rubenwardy I'll back up just in case
16:28 celeron55 i actually never use pull --rebase
16:29 celeron55 i just looked up the man page and yes, that's what it does
16:29 blaze joined #minetest-dev
16:29 celeron55 ...and i think i should use pull --rebase more often
16:29 red-001 rubenwardy it can be useful to know if something is a pr or issue without opening it
16:30 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
16:33 red-001 is https://github.com/orgs/minetest/people the list of core devs?
16:35 alkotob joined #minetest-dev
16:35 Krock yes
16:36 Krock make sure it says "Unfollow" on each button on the right side
16:36 red-001 :)
16:36 blaze left #minetest-dev
16:39 Krock red-001, the typo monster doens't like you: "[...] that are simultaneously send pre client."
16:39 Krock pre
16:40 rubenwardy red-001, apart from Calin_u, he's a web dev
16:41 Krock also, "to send" is in this case with "to be" ("are") -> "sent"
16:41 rubenwardy I think that's it
16:41 Krock I'm not a native english speaker so shoot at me when I'm wrong
16:45 rubenwardy *shoot me if I'm wrong
16:46 rubenwardy just kidding, yours was fine
16:50 * celeron55 measures darkness of humour, drops the result under the bed and can't find it anymore
16:52 Krock ^^
16:53 Fixer 639 players
18:08 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
18:09 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
18:13 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
18:32 paramat joined #minetest-dev
18:42 agrecascino joined #minetest-dev
19:00 damiel_ joined #minetest-dev
19:10 APNG can we get player-defined player models?
19:10 APNG and unlockable flight/etc capabilities, through dungeon items?
19:11 agrecascino joined #minetest-dev
19:11 APNG mostly because that'd be furry-friendly
19:11 APNG and furries are one of the most welcoming communities, so we wouldn't have so many assholes in our community
19:18 sofar chat about furries is offtopic
19:19 APNG it's about furries sure, it's also about the minetest community, the users, and even the developers >.>
19:19 sofar unless it's about game or game engine development, it's off topic
19:19 APNG so #minetest-dev doesn't care about minetest?
19:19 APNG good, fucking useless >.>
19:19 sofar you love to twist words, don't you
19:20 sofar nobody can have an honest discussion with you since now I've apparently raped furries
19:20 twoelk this is not about furrieys but about the easiness to change the player model
19:21 sofar THEN WHY THE FUCK DID YOU MENTION FURRIES?
19:21 sofar sorry, that was uncalled for
19:21 sofar please, stay technical in chat in here?
19:21 APNG so #minetest-dev doesn't care about the minetest community?
19:21 sofar you can't have player defined models since the server needs to know all the models at server start
19:22 APNG which, fyi, is more important than the game code
19:22 sofar you can have player defined models if that means that the player chooses a model from a list of known models
19:22 sofar you can have items that grant flight or abilities, just write a mod that does that
19:22 APNG but how would it work?
19:22 APNG you see
19:23 sofar you'd write some lua code
19:23 APNG granting flight or w/e only grants the same thing everyone has
19:23 APNG it doesn't let you control flight semantics or w/e
19:23 APNG so there's no good UX
19:23 sofar you'd have to write a mod to make whatever UX you want
19:23 sofar e.g. helicopter mod makes a specific UX in the form of a flying vehicle
19:24 APNG mods can't control how high you can fly or how you do the flying without breaking some things
19:24 sofar file a bug?
19:24 APNG a mod can't make it so you have to hold space to go up, stop holding space to go down, etc
19:25 APNG or tap space repeatedly to go up (like wings)
19:25 APNG and limiting the fly height would leak into things
19:25 sofar you could do "flapping" with an item in hand and repeatedly using it to "flap" in a mod
19:26 APNG also, fly has to be manually activated in the config, instead of being something that can be toggled on/off with an item
19:26 sofar all movement buttons are capturable in mods too
19:26 sofar no, you can make people fly even if flying is off in the config
19:26 sofar all player movement can be defined and overridden in mods
19:27 APNG but doesn't that have to go through the network?
19:27 APNG sounds wonky
19:27 sofar ?
19:28 sofar everything has to go through the network at some point
19:28 APNG yes, but I mean
19:28 APNG movement can be simulated on the client
19:28 APNG except mods can't simulate movement on the client
19:28 APNG so instead you have to send the keys through the network, which might take 500 ms
19:29 APNG then the mod has to tell the client what to do, which takes another 500 ms
19:29 sofar minetest is a network game
19:29 sofar that's not going to change
19:29 APNG next thing you know it takes 1 second to start flying and another second to stop flying
19:29 sofar minetest is a network game.... again
19:29 sofar you can't get rid of that problem, it's part of the design
19:29 APNG sofar, yes, but at least it could do some things on the client to make it less shitty
19:29 APNG you can get rid of that problem
19:30 APNG minecraft doesn't have that problem
19:30 agrecascino_ joined #minetest-dev
19:30 agrecascino_ hey APNG you like bikesheds
19:30 sofar it has other problems
19:30 agrecascino_ i do too ;)
19:30 sofar back to your problem, you can do it in mods, problem seems solved?
19:31 APNG eh
19:31 APNG when do we get client-side mods :/
19:31 sofar when you write the code, or someone else does
19:31 agrecascino_ i could make a logo for it
19:32 APNG ok
19:32 APNG in more pressing matters
19:32 sofar yes, a logo, that would really help development of that code...
19:32 APNG can we get end-to-end encrypted PMs?
19:32 sofar sure, install signal messenger on your phone
19:33 sofar oh, you mean in minetest?
19:33 sofar not going to happen.
19:33 APNG yes, in minetest >.>
19:34 agrecascino joined #minetest-dev
19:34 agrecascino sofar, is there already infrastructure for running lua on clients?
19:34 agrecascino or is there none?
19:34 Calinou agrecascino: there is literally none
19:35 agrecascino oh god
19:35 sofar client stays 100% in C++ atm.
19:35 agrecascino how is mruby's performance compared to luajit?
19:35 Calinou mruby?
19:37 agrecascino Calinou, basically ruby for integration
19:37 Fixer ruby has jit?
19:38 sofar ruby wouldn't be a choice for client side mods anyway
19:38 sofar it's going to be lua no matter what
19:38 agrecascino sofar, yeah, since everything else is written in lua
19:38 sofar even C++ mods won't make any sense
19:38 agrecascino ?
19:38 agrecascino sofar, i disagree
19:39 Calinou Ruby is slow compared to LuaJIT
19:39 Calinou Ruby is not JIT, and no JIT implementations seem to exist for Ruby
19:39 Calinou (unlike Python)
19:39 agrecascino is pypy a jit?
19:39 sofar explain how an x86_64 server is going to send a precompiled binary to an armv7 android client then
19:39 Calinou agrecascino: yes
19:39 Calinou sofar: cross-compilation :P
19:39 Calinou but yeah, C++ mods are a bad idea
19:39 agrecascino sofar, why not use something like cling
19:40 Calinou even with NaCl you still need to compile for every architecture
19:40 sofar you'd have to precompile possibly dozens of versions
19:40 sofar it's not worth it
19:40 agrecascino and compile on the client
19:40 sofar lua solves the whole problem
19:40 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
19:40 Calinou (NaCl is platform-, but not architecture-independent)
19:41 sofar plus c++ mods from a server could hack clients and are inherently insecure
19:41 agrecascino sofar, what about something like a pledge call?
19:41 sofar a what?
19:41 Calinou you mean a crowdfunding campaign?
19:41 agrecascino http://man.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/Op​enBSD-current/man2/pledge.2?query=pledge
19:42 sofar agrecascino: how is a BSD specific thing going to help linux or windows clients?
19:42 sofar again, native mods are a huge security problem
19:42 agrecascino sofar, i was thinking the idea, not the exact implementation
19:43 T4im Calinou: JRuby is JIT
19:43 Calinou T4im: in my experience it's not much faster than official Ruby
19:43 Calinou can be slower in many cases
19:43 Calinou unlike PyPy which is almost always faster than CPython
19:43 nrzkt joined #minetest-dev
19:44 Fixer too bad there is no good anticheat in minetest, I seen hackers who can fly/fast/teleport/noclip...
19:44 Calinou Fixer: no good anticheat exists for any game
19:45 Fixer agree
19:45 agrecascino sofar, do you understand networking in mintest?
19:45 Calinou the only solution is moderation
19:45 agrecascino BattlEye rootkit for minetest!
19:46 Fixer Calinou: at least some kind of noclip/fly/fast detector will be useful (presented as a report)
19:46 sofar agrecascino: it's not that complex
19:46 Fixer there are already hacked minetest clients with cheats
19:46 agrecascino sofar, but it's poorly documented
19:46 sofar the code is the documentation
19:47 APNG <Calinou> even with NaCl you still need to compile for every architecture
19:47 APNG asm.js
19:47 Calinou not gonna happen, we ain't adding V8 or such in Minetest…
19:47 agrecascino asm.js is still incredibly slow
19:47 APNG seamonkey
19:47 APNG fuck v8
19:47 APNG v8 is shit
19:47 APNG v8 eats half the RAM to run a hello world
19:47 agrecascino APNG, then what else is there?
19:47 agrecascino duktape?
19:47 APNG agrecascino, seamonkey
19:48 sofar duktape isn't bad
19:48 Calinou the speed concern remains
19:48 APNG or w/e that mozilla thing is called
19:48 agrecascino what
19:48 Calinou SpiderMonkey?
19:48 Calinou 0 A.D. uses it, they seem to regret it
19:48 agrecascino spidermonkey is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo​ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.
19:48 sofar but, why would you ever do JS?
19:48 APNG Calinou, it's faster than non-JIT Lua
19:48 agrecascino sofar, because they obviously hate themselves
19:48 APNG sofar, because emscripten
19:48 APNG it's literally the only reason you'd ever use JS
19:49 agrecascino why not add c++ mods then
19:49 APNG the modern web doesn't use JS, it uses emscripten
19:49 agrecascino and somehow sanitize the code
19:49 Fixer damn, what are they smoking for this names...
19:49 APNG agrecascino, again, emscripten
19:49 sofar I'm pretty sure this is a non-discussion, if we'll ever have client side mods they'll be lua
19:49 Calinou client-side modding, if done, should be done in an interpreted language
19:49 Calinou I do not want blobs being downloaded from a server and run on my machine
19:50 agrecascino and somehow sanitize the code
19:50 agrecascino oops
19:50 agrecascino meant
19:50 APNG Calinou, thus JS
19:50 agrecascino "why are we even arguing this"
19:50 APNG allows C and C++ mods
19:50 Calinou APNG: we support one interpreted language already
19:50 APNG Calinou, then give me an asm.lua >.>
19:50 Calinou if by "allow", you mean "run at 10% speed with tons of restrictions", maybe
19:50 Calinou also C/C++ are not good modding languages
19:50 Calinou they make things much harder than they should be
19:50 agrecascino and lua doesn't
19:51 agrecascino one word
19:51 agrecascino nil
19:51 Fixer whats the problem with lua? tenplus1 run server with up to 40 servers, and lag was manageble, should not block inclusion of carts/mob in lua %)
19:52 Calinou lag in Minetest is coming from the engine (server and client)
19:52 Calinou and also because people expect too much with mods sometimes
19:52 Calinou like, running tons of code every step
19:52 Fixer server lag*
19:53 paramat sofar rubenwardy game#1270 ?
19:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1270 -- Default, stairs, doors: Vary wood flammable and choppy group values by paramat
19:54 APNG lag happens because LuaJIT can't JIT through C/Lua boundary
19:54 APNG minetest should be reimplemented through the FFI
19:54 agrecascino oh god
20:07 Fixer what annoying thing is memory limit
20:07 Fixer try darkage mod with some bunch of other mods, lua mem consumption... 30 40 50 40 20 30 50 80 40 50 20 LUA OOM
20:09 Fixer suddenly
20:09 red-001 joined #minetest-dev
20:11 est31 joined #minetest-dev
20:12 est31 I am a friend of 6-fold gravity
20:13 est31 transition is very easy: calculate a vector of gravity
20:13 est31 then take the closest of the 6 directions as "down"
20:13 est31 and if the norm of the vector is smaller than some value, allow free movement or sth
20:15 red-001 !seen loggingbot_
20:15 ShadowBot red-001: I haven't seen loggingbot_ in #minetest-dev.
20:20 eeew` joined #minetest-dev
20:24 APNG Fixer, swap luajit with lua 5.1
20:24 Fixer APNG: lua 5.1 is much slower
20:24 Fixer APNG: and those lua oom errors can be fixed by writing mods properly
20:24 APNG Fixer, but it can eat all your RAM
20:25 Calinou Minetest supports plain Lua, but it's rarely used due to low performance :P
20:26 APNG RAM is more important than efficiency
20:26 APNG just look at V8 if you want an example
20:26 KaadmY <APNG> RAM is more important than efficiency
20:26 T4im the mod will leak in vanilly certainly, too, just not gonna oom so soon
20:27 KaadmY then you complain minetest is laggy?
20:29 APNG KaadmY, lookup tables are much faster than CPU heavy shit
20:29 APNG lookup tables can speed up minetest significantly
20:29 APNG but they're not luajit-friendly
20:29 red-001 ??
20:30 APNG luajit has a 2GB ram limit
20:30 APNG lua doesn't have a ram limit
20:30 APNG so in plain lua you better use lookup tables for performance, while in luajit you better use CPU so your code doesn't crash
20:32 red-001 2GB is a pretty reasonable limit
20:32 APNG some servers have 3TB of RAM >.>
20:33 APNG 2GB is the opposite of reasonable >.>
20:35 red-001 so around $3100 of ram?
20:36 APNG RAM is cheap
20:36 APNG $3k for 3TB is cheap
20:37 red-001 why does lua jit have a limit of 2GB any way?
20:38 T4im red, note the #lua channel topic
20:38 * T4im starts to get it now
20:38 red-001 ?
20:42 rubenwardy Topic for #lua is: http://lua-users.org/wiki/IrcChannel :: Paste on http://codepad.org/?lang=Lua :: Please consider registering with NickServ if you haven't already. :: Pay no attention to Soni/cat5e/APNG :: * is zero or more :: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubdek0l4Mzc
20:42 APNG red-001, something about the way the GC is designed
20:42 Calinou joined #minetest-dev
20:42 APNG the bytecode isn't quite fully portable
20:52 Fixer T4im: last time I checked vanilla used like 2-5 mb of lua mem
20:52 Fixer thats nothing
21:22 Tmanyo joined #minetest-dev
21:30 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
21:34 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
21:36 APNG left #minetest-dev
21:37 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
22:03 Grandolf joined #minetest-dev
22:15 hmmmm even if you had 3TB of ram, you certainly wouldn't want lua to use it, because of GC churn
22:19 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest-dev
22:30 paramat the new reused noise 'buffer' must help, i've updated but i'm sure many mods have not
22:32 ekem joined #minetest-dev
22:37 proller joined #minetest-dev
22:43 Fixer darkage probably needs heavy rewriting of mapgen code, since it halts on on_generated
22:43 Fixer while adding ores and blocks
22:53 halt_ joined #minetest-dev
22:53 red-001 what c++ standard should be used when coding for minetest?
22:55 rubenwardy red-001, the one before c++11
22:56 rubenwardy C++98?
22:56 rubenwardy yeah
22:57 red-001 could a newer standard be used?
22:57 red-001 or is compiler support not good enough?
22:58 rubenwardy I think FreeBSD still has an old version of gcc, or smth
22:58 rubenwardy I remember something about switching over when Ubuntu(?) 14.04(?) reaches EOL
22:59 red-001 to c++11?
23:13 paramat the darkage code looks 'unoptimal' to me
23:20 paramat will merge games 1270 1274 in a moment
23:31 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-dev
23:31 rubenwardy game#1270 game#1274
23:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1270 -- Default, stairs, doors: Vary wood flammable and choppy group values by paramat
23:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1274 -- eliminated redundant calls by pinkysnowman
23:32 rubenwardy Awesome
23:34 paramat now merging
23:39 paramat complete!
23:40 paramat minor change to the last commit, moved the line to a suitable place
23:44 paramat #4475 seems good now
23:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4475 -- Small improvements of settingtypes.txt by red-001
23:47 paramat rubenwardy i might merge some engine stuff, shall i merge #4416 ?
23:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4416 -- Formspecs: Fix background elements from interferring with each other by rubenwardy
23:48 rubenwardy Yeah, I think I'll self approve that
23:48 rubenwardy thanks
23:48 paramat might merge #4372 also
23:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4372 -- Disallow registering users with the same name by SmallJoker
23:48 paramat ok
23:49 Tmanyo joined #minetest-dev
23:50 paramat will merge those 3 in a moment

| Channels | #minetest-dev index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext