Time Nick Message 00:15 Hijiri what do formspecs use all the node metadata for? 00:15 Hijiri I know the formspec field and the meta inventory are used 00:21 paramat APNG you will not get anywhere by insulting us and giving orders, maybe code it yourself? 01:08 est31 btw, the topic of #lua also includes the text " Pay no attention to Soni/cat5e " 01:09 est31 (Soni == APNG == cat5e) 01:10 APNG and that's why I don't like to touch lua projects >.> 01:10 APNG (unless they're from tim caswell) 01:10 est31 APNG, I'm sure you earned it 01:11 APNG (then again most tim caswell things don't compile correctly... >.>) 01:11 est31 APNG, if you would be more respectful with people, maybe they would listen to your suggestions 01:12 APNG est31, it's hard to be nice when you have a deadline 01:12 est31 APNG, ?? 01:13 APNG est31, unlike the things I tried to do with luvit, this thing has a deadline 01:13 APNG which's why I'm giving orders 01:13 est31 why does minetest have a deadline 01:13 APNG no, not minetest 01:13 APNG my mod 01:14 APNG also, I don't touch C++, so unless you want me to shove C in your C++, you probably don't want me to touch your C++ 01:14 APNG so my only options are to give orders or to hire someone to do C++ for me, and I don't have any money 01:15 est31 or you could just kindly *ask* 01:15 APNG est31, well... how can I get things done before my deadline? 01:15 est31 if your mod has a deadline for whatever reason possible, being kind will get you much farther than being as arrogant as you act atm 01:17 APNG can I set custom item names?<+sofar> not currently, no can you fix that? because I kinda need it 01:17 APNG tbh, I did ask... 01:19 est31 well you still can develop in APNG and then write a converter to minetest's format 01:20 APNG that doesn't solve the texture pack problem, or the per-frame delay problem 01:20 APNG (apparently you can't have per-frame delay or something) 01:22 est31 the per frame delay issue can be solved differently as well 01:23 est31 for example by extending the timing specified by lua 01:23 APNG or, alternatively, APNG 01:23 APNG which's a lot easier to support on the client and fully backwards-compatible (just ignore frame timings on the client) 01:25 est31 is there even a library that supports apng 01:25 est31 as it seems official libpng doesnt include it 01:25 APNG yes 01:25 APNG uh let me find it 01:25 est31 we'd have to add a new mandatory dependency to minetest, that's a big undertaking 01:25 APNG (I forgot the name .-.) 01:26 APNG est31, doesn't libpng let you parse custom chunks? just extract the APNG chunks and make in-memory PNGs so you can extract the frames 01:26 APNG anyway 01:26 APNG it's called Gecko 01:27 est31 oh you are trolling right? 01:27 est31 gecko is an html rendering engine 01:27 APNG Gecko can parse APNGs and it comes in lib format 01:28 APNG it can do more than just HTML rendering 01:28 est31 and it is gigantic 01:28 est31 not suited for minetest 01:29 Warr1024 Gecko is not gigantic. Gigantic things are small next to Gecko. 01:29 est31 but only because it can climb the trump tower! 01:29 est31 :) 01:29 APNG anyway, apparently you can just do this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2568912/how-do-i-read-an-arbitrary-chunk-from-a-png-file 01:30 APNG if enough ppl adopt full APNG support then it'll be easier to make APNG official 01:30 Warr1024 Why is apng even a thing? Whatever even happened to mng? Wasn't that supposed to do the same thing, but not be some obscure feature hidden in only some png handlers? 01:31 est31 idk 01:31 APNG Warr1024, MNG is APNG on steroids, I like to call it "spritesheet-oriented APNG" 01:31 Warr1024 ah. steroids would probably be harder to support in principle 01:31 APNG because that's basically how it works, you have subsections of an image and you shove a bunch of animations in the same image 01:32 Warr1024 though if there's a reasonably good lib out there, maybe it's a route... 01:32 APNG where each animation is a whole MNG stored in a chunk 01:32 APNG so it's basically a file inside a file, and parsing such recursive things is uh... 01:32 APNG painful... 01:32 APNG so it never gained widespread adoption 01:33 Warr1024 but if there is a libmng which is not painful to integrate, and apng->mng converters, it may be a shortcut to solve your need 01:33 APNG APNG is simple tho 01:33 Warr1024 apng cannot be simple because png is not really simple 01:33 APNG oh, and MNG also puts whole JPEGs inside it 01:34 Warr1024 libpng doesn't support apng? 01:34 est31 no 01:34 APNG so in addition to parsing MNGs and PNGs (because MNG uses some things from PNG), you also need to handle JPEGs 01:35 APNG cool, eh? 01:35 Warr1024 jpeg support in mt is not an entirely unreasonable thing to add 01:35 APNG ಠ_ಠ01:36 APNG uh I guess some ppl enjoy JPEG artifacts :/ 01:36 Warr1024 jpeg still occupies a use niche which does not 100% intersect png's 01:36 APNG unless you're using like 512x512 textures, I don't see why you'd want JPEG 01:37 est31 I think that jpeg doesnt really fit for minetest 01:37 Warr1024 ...which is pretty much how some others feel about apng 01:37 Warr1024 I did try to animate skins once though 01:37 Warr1024 it did kind of sucl 01:37 Warr1024 s/.$/k/ 01:38 APNG Warr1024, minetest already uses .png 01:39 Warr1024 yes, and it seems good enough for most users... 01:39 APNG the overall file format is the same, so supporting APNG is uh how can I call it... 01:39 APNG it's not really trivial but uh 01:39 est31 you just have to modify libpng, nothing easier than that 01:39 APNG it's backwards compatible? sort of 01:40 APNG est31, you don't have to modify libpng 01:40 est31 plus probably irrlicht as well 01:40 OldCoder apng is a png patch 01:40 * OldCoder does this 01:40 * OldCoder can test the patch and make a PR if it works 01:40 OldCoder Will this help? 01:40 Warr1024 the term is "non-trivial". there's even a tag for it in mt's github issue tracker. 01:40 APNG you don't have to modify libpng 01:40 APNG Warr1024, I'm not talking about non-trivial or trivial, I'm talking about something else 01:41 * OldCoder seems to remember a patch. APNG what changes are needed, then? 01:41 est31 OldCoder, you mean this patch? https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/media/libpng/apng.patch 01:41 APNG well 01:41 APNG you can do this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2568912/how-do-i-read-an-arbitrary-chunk-from-a-png-file 01:41 OldCoder Reviewing 01:41 APNG do it a few times to retrieve all the APNG chunks 01:41 est31 That *does* require modification of libpng 01:41 APNG est31, it does? 01:41 est31 which we are not going to do 01:42 Warr1024 yeah, it seems like libpng would have support for some pieces of this, and most of what would be needed to load is just glue 01:42 APNG est31, are we reading the same thing? 01:42 OldCoder est31, APNG I use a different patch. But perhaps they do the same thing. 01:42 Warr1024 going from loading to actually displaying in thr necessary places would probably be more tricky 01:42 APNG loading is easy 01:42 APNG displaying is easy 01:43 APNG the abstractions in between may be a pain depending on the current code >.> 01:43 Warr1024 apng: if you know c but not c++, it's not a huge barrier to contributing. 01:43 Warr1024 C++ is just a superset, really; I 01:43 APNG (seriously don't hardcode this shit, use a parser-and-consumer model) 01:43 APNG Warr1024, no thanks, C++ sucks 01:43 Warr1024 ve contribbed code which is definitely more C than C++ 01:44 est31 minetest is very c like in many parts 01:44 APNG est31, then why the C++? 01:44 Warr1024 "C++ sucks" doesn't get your feature done the way you want, either. 01:44 est31 because its only c like not written in c 01:44 APNG but why? 01:45 APNG why's C++ somehow better? 01:45 Warr1024 just hold your breath, dive in, and wash the ++ off yourself after :-) 01:45 APNG you can't use try/catch if you want it to run in emscripten 01:46 APNG and other than templates there's not much of a reason to use C++ 01:46 est31 APNG, in c you cant use try/catch either because there is no try/catch 01:46 est31 templates are one of the ugliest parts of c++ in my eyes 01:46 OldCoder C++ vs. C is for other forums and times... what is the proposed change presently? 01:47 est31 OldCoder, APNG wants minetest to adopt the APNG image format 01:47 APNG altho that's not my top priority 01:47 APNG my top priority is custom item names 01:48 APNG either as an addition to what we currently have (trivial) or as a replacement of the itemstack metadata system (non-trivial and backwards-incompatible) 01:49 APNG the trivial option might be easier to get merged 01:50 APNG but it's also uglier 01:51 thePalindrome I still say flif :P 01:51 Hijiri probably it won't get merged because there is some work on better metadata systems 01:51 est31 thePalindrome, ++ 01:51 thePalindrome Just as soon as it's done :P 01:51 est31 thePalindrome, but blocker issue is that it gets stabilized AND that it gets a spec written 01:51 thePalindrome It has a spec written, it's just unstable 01:51 Hijiri item metadata is much closer than client side scripting but people still disagree with features that would be special cases of client-side scripting 01:52 Hijiri so probably the same would happen for a specialized item name thing 01:52 thePalindrome Indeed 01:54 thePalindrome Well, things like this are why I want to work more on mintest :P 01:55 OldCoder Lost connection 01:55 OldCoder Missed any response 01:55 OldCoder In case my text was lost: 01:55 OldCoder APNG, are you proposing apng support without libpng changes? 01:55 OldCoder By moving some of the functionality into MT? If so, shall we produce a PR so that there is something concrete to present? 01:55 OldCoder 01:56 est31 thePalindrome, it has? 01:56 est31 thePalindrome, links or it didnt happen 01:56 thePalindrome Yeah, lemme grab it 01:57 thePalindrome At the very least a reference build has been made 01:58 thePalindrome I realize now you might not call that a "spec" :P 01:58 thePalindrome https://uprootlabs.github.io/poly-flif 01:58 thePalindrome There's a polyfill 01:58 est31 thats not a spec 01:58 est31 a spec is a document people can use to write implementations with 01:58 APNG flif sounds stupid imo 01:58 thePalindrome and apng doesn't? :P 01:59 OldCoder est31, APNG the question is... can apng support be added without modifying libpng if libpng mods are forbidden? 01:59 thePalindrome It outperforms apng at least :shrug: 01:59 OldCoder Hm 01:59 est31 OldCoder, I'm wondering on that as well 01:59 APNG thePalindrome, it doesn't promise to be good at all the things 01:59 OldCoder Could libpng be added to MT? License IIRC is open 01:59 est31 OldCoder, thats not the way to do it, it would be a terrible hack. 01:59 est31 apng is not needed that much 02:00 est31 plus we'd need to maintain it 02:00 APNG OldCoder, you can support apng without modifying libpng 02:00 OldCoder So, it comes down to the question of what is involved to support apng 02:00 OldCoder APNG, go on 02:00 est31 imagine if a CVE is in libpng, we'd need to release a hot patch 02:00 est31 etc etc 02:00 OldCoder If you can explain how elsewhere 02:00 OldCoder est31, right 02:00 APNG apng is final 02:00 OldCoder If you can explain how elsewhere, I can prepare a PR 02:00 APNG so all you have to do is extract the APNG chunks (see the stackoverflow I linked), parse them, then process them 02:00 OldCoder OK 02:01 OldCoder Do you know enough 'C' to do this? 02:01 OldCoder Shall we prepare a pull request? 02:01 thePalindrome Although why do we need animated texture, can the engine even do that? 02:01 est31 thePalindrome, the engine already has a format for animated textures 02:01 thePalindrome APNG: http://flif.info/animation.html 02:01 OldCoder It is an interesting idea. The key questions may not be answered though until the code can be reviewed. 02:02 APNG thePalindrome, the engine already does animated textures, but it has fixed framerate IIRC and framerate is set by the server 02:02 est31 and minetest is not a game about adding as much formats as possible 02:02 thePalindrome Ah, I see 02:02 * thePalindrome ponders 02:02 est31 adding a new format needs to make sense, and in this case I'd say we should wait for flif to become stable and then make the descision 02:02 est31 if we support apng we cant go back, because of compat reasons 02:02 thePalindrome ^ 02:02 OldCoder est31, explain 02:02 * OldCoder is curious 02:03 OldCoder Can't have both? 02:03 OldCoder Assuming libpng doesn't need to be modified 02:03 APNG est31, thankfully it's a client-side only change 02:03 est31 and minetest is not a game about adding as much formats as possible 02:03 OldCoder est31, right, but the question is, why "can't go back" ? 02:04 est31 OldCoder, because clients should be able to load legacy mods/games/ connect to legacy servers 02:04 OldCoder est31, you mean, you could not drop apng support 02:04 OldCoder once added 02:04 est31 yes 02:04 OldCoder Right, this is true. IMHO key question... which needs a PR to discuss... is what is the code to do this really like? 02:04 APNG est31, and that's a pain because it means you're stuck in legacy forever 02:05 OldCoder APNG, I would suggest attempting to produce a branch with the feature for review 02:05 APNG do it the MC way and break things every 0.x version 02:05 OldCoder Um, no :-) 02:05 * OldCoder does not want his worlds to die 02:05 APNG OldCoder, they wouldn't die thanks to git history 02:06 OldCoder APNG, not the forum for this part, but if you mean, servers no longer support old worlds, no, thanks 02:06 est31 Either way, if its really just a small patch and doable without modifying libpng OR irrlicht I might consider supporting the change 02:06 OldCoder See my suggestion though 02:06 OldCoder APNG, ^ that is what you will get for today 02:06 OldCoder I will help you to prepare an apng branch if you like 02:06 APNG est31, well, can you use libpng directly? 02:07 est31 APNG, i dont know the details, but I think minetest has access to libpng directly, yes 02:07 OldCoder No reason it wouldn't 02:07 est31 so libpng header is includeable, etc 02:07 Hijiri what if you can convert it to the animation format we have now? 02:07 APNG so can you refactor the whole rendering code so it separates "parsing" and "displaying"? 02:07 OldCoder Hijiri, on the fly, you mean? 02:07 Hijiri when the client recieves it 02:08 Hijiri oh wait 02:08 Hijiri that doesn't make sense, animations don't exist then 02:08 * OldCoder has a meeting elsewhere. He offers to help APNG prepare a branch if there is a specific small patch to make. 02:08 OldCoder Hijiri, there is an animation format 02:08 OldCoder Limited 02:08 APNG (that way we can turn APNGs into the internal format, as well as legacy animations into the same internal format) 02:08 est31 APNG, thats a reasonable change and I would support it but i dont do it for you sorry 02:08 Hijiri I mean animations aren't sent at asset send time 02:08 Hijiri because they're made dynamically 02:09 est31 APNG, if you find someone to do it for you it can be added, even independently from whether to use apng or not 02:09 OldCoder Right, mods do this in sprites 02:09 APNG (actually, why not add client-side scripting and add all those features to client-side mods?) 02:09 Hijiri it could cache the conversions 02:09 Hijiri maybe at asset send time 02:09 OldCoder got to go, APNG I am offering to try to help with some of this, PM me again 02:09 Hijiri but that's more work than just converting 02:10 APNG well you're still gonna parse it one way or another 02:10 APNG also graphical changes don't affect the ability to load worlds, especially since it's APNG which has a PNG fallback 02:10 est31 GTG as well 02:10 APNG (static image) 02:10 Hijiri I just mean if we tried to glue it onto the existing system 02:11 APNG so APNG support can be added or removed anytime 02:12 thePalindrome Oh yeah, forgot about that 02:15 APNG so yeah, go ahead and add APNG support! if it becomes an issue, just remove it! everything will still work just fine, except animations won't play, but that's not a significant issue 02:16 APNG I need to go sleep... 02:16 APNG good night o/ 02:16 thePalindrome Not that I really have much sway here, but I don't see anything to lose here, so why not? 02:16 thePalindrome /) 02:39 OldCoder May I inquire, is there anything in the core, as opposed to mod-level features such as lifetimers, that despawns (erases) entities? 02:39 OldCoder Once an entity is created, at the core level, is there any reason it would not last forever? 02:44 sofar I'm fairly sure they are destroyed at a certain point 02:44 sofar I think even handles are recycled 02:44 KaadmY o 02:44 KaadmY oops 04:25 OldCoder sofar, thank you; is there a timer of some sort internally? Are you saying that mobs can't be immortal? 05:19 Hijiri entities can be deleted if there are too many in a chunk (block?) 07:32 red-001 could something be done about #3900 ? 07:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001 07:42 Hijiri usually a feature won't get written unless someone who can write the code also cares about it 07:42 Hijiri cares enough to write it, at least 07:43 Hijiri cares enough to write it above other features/bug fixes/enhancements 07:56 T4im thePalindrome: https://wiki.mozilla.org/APNG_Specification ? use duckduckgo, google is terrible at finding useful things (yes, I'm serious, they filter too much) 07:57 T4im and http://pmt.sourceforge.net/specs/png-1.2-pdg.html for extensions in general 09:45 Thomas-S Hello! Could any of the devs please add a second approval to this ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4267 ), if the PR is ok; or if the PR still needs improvement, tell me what I should improve? Thanks in advance! 11:08 Zeno` Thomas-S, done 11:47 nrzkt hi \er 12:50 paramat 700 issues! :} 12:50 Krock wohoo! 12:51 Krock Next milestone: 800 issues 13:00 paramat closed game#475 13:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/475 -- Have beds to depend necessarily on red dye? 13:04 sfan5 pushing in 5 minutes http://sprunge.us/UgDf?diff 13:05 paramat seems ok 13:21 nrzkt mergin #4267 13:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4267 -- Add an [opacity: texture modifier. by Thomas--S 13:22 APNG nrzkt, what's the use-case for that? why not just use PNG transparency? 13:23 sfan5 APNG: texture modifiers can be used to modify existing textures without creating a new one 13:24 sfan5 also dynamic changes on entities or in formspecs 15:10 APNG is there any way to display a GUI when rightclicking an item? 15:12 sfan5 there is 16:12 paramat in my irc client rubenwardy has no 'yellow indicator light' and isn't grouped at the top with other devs 16:13 Calinou rubenwardy is not currently voiced, that's why 16:13 Calinou same for me :) 16:13 Calinou (I mean, I see rubenwardy not grouped with other devs) 16:25 rubenwardy :P 16:26 rubenwardy and yeah, it's voice 16:30 rubenwardy I've been visiting my parents for the last 5 days, which is why I haven't been active 18:02 paramat Fixer please are you able to reduce the amount of join/quit messages from your 2 nicks? 18:03 Fixer paramat: sorry, I'm currently analysing my boot speed with special tools that needs a lot of restarts 18:03 paramat :} 18:16 rom1504 use /ignore JOIN QUIT 18:20 paramat ok 18:24 jomat /ignore JOIN QUIT lets you speak to people who are already gone 18:27 Fixer i finished my --- with windows, chat is yours now 20:03 OldCoder We have solved the mystery of the Sadies. This is for discussion in -project and not in -dev. But asking here... 20:03 OldCoder Who was the person who knows how to DMCA illegal clones? 20:04 OldCoder Was that Proller? This is a pretty bad one 20:04 OldCoder It needs to be taken down 20:04 Krock Is there a link for it? 20:09 sfan5 OldCoder: you just need to file a dmca with google and provide an explanation : https://support.google.com/legal/troubleshooter/1114905 20:09 OldCoder sfan5, Krock link coming 20:09 OldCoder This is -dev business after all. I have another question: 20:09 OldCoder If the developer proves to be unreasonable, would a core patch to block his product be acceptable? 20:10 sfan5 the first question is whether it's technically possible 20:10 OldCoder I think it is. And the Sadies are coming from an Eastern European Minetest clone that doesn't credit Minetest... 20:10 OldCoder The really annoying part 20:10 OldCoder is that the developer simply implies that he, himself, has created a Minecraft clone 20:11 sfan5 that is definitely a reason to go for dmca 20:11 OldCoder He is also sending 100s of players into Minetest worlds with no explanation 20:11 OldCoder of what the game is 20:11 OldCoder Link: 20:11 OldCoder http://www.explorationbase.com/ 20:11 OldCoder He has app versions for Apple AND Android 20:11 OldCoder And is going the whole route on monetization 20:12 OldCoder Proller, I think, DMCA'd Multicraft before or one of the knockoffs 20:12 sfan5 i did 20:12 OldCoder If I can reach him, I'll ask him for... 20:12 OldCoder sfan5, will you help with this one? I will contribute time and editing to the letter 20:12 sfan5 i'll show you what i filed 20:12 OldCoder Review the website. This one is really annoying. 20:12 OldCoder OK. PM or -project. 20:15 Krock backend = dummy -> exploration lite done. 20:16 OldCoder sfan5, dig it up. I am filing with Apple now. 20:17 thePalindrome "Sadies?" 20:19 Krock yes, "Sadie1231", like the guests 20:19 * thePalindrome has never been on a public minetest server 20:21 Krock then you know your next mission ^ 20:22 thePalindrome So after the mission "Add a callback that a lot of mods want to use to the engine" comes "join a server? :P" 20:24 thePalindrome Krock: Too late, I've already added a callback that at least somebody else wanted to do :P 20:25 Krock mymod.initialize_callback() 20:26 thePalindrome No silly, I added it to the engine :P 20:28 thePalindrome on_secondary_use 20:32 * thePalindrome is cool, right? 20:49 nrzkt OldCoder, it was me not proller for multicraft 20:53 OldCoder nrzkt, thanks. I'm on the phone with Apple regarding the issue. 20:55 BrandonReese Are you sure exploration and exploration lite is built off of minetest? I installed it, feels totally different. Interface is completely different. No multiplayer. 20:57 OldCoder BrandonReese, sfan5 says that it includes the readme.txt. It also connects to our servers. 20:57 sfan5 no no 20:57 OldCoder Oh? explain, then 20:57 sfan5 the exploration *you* linked is something different 20:57 sfan5 this one >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.freecraft.freecraft_exploration 20:57 sfan5 uses minetest 20:58 nrzkt OldCoder, i only do it for google, not apple 20:58 OldCoder nrzkt, thanks 20:58 sfan5 and is confusingly also called "Exploration" 20:58 OldCoder So, the Apple link appears to be innocent? 20:58 OldCoder Need to settle this 20:59 OldCoder Because I am on hold for Apple Legal right now 20:59 sfan5 apple link seems innocent yes 20:59 sfan5 (other minetest clones exist on the apple app store however) 20:59 OldCoder Is Andrzej Chomiak's MC clone entirely independent, then? 20:59 OldCoder Right 20:59 sfan5 Yes, it is 20:59 OldCoder Very well 21:00 sfan5 sorry if i didn't make this clear 21:00 OldCoder sfan5, I'm out of time shortly. Would you like to deal with the Google one? 21:00 OldCoder OK 21:00 OldCoder I think 21:00 sfan5 not today at least 21:00 OldCoder We need to start doing this on a more regular basis 21:00 OldCoder I will deal with the Sadies one next week, then 21:00 sfan5 the thing is 21:00 OldCoder Go on 21:00 sfan5 many games mention "bla bla based on lgpl minetest engine" in their description 21:00 OldCoder Right 21:00 sfan5 and then they're out of it 21:00 sfan5 no dmca possible 21:01 OldCoder Actually 21:01 OldCoder It depends 21:01 OldCoder I'll comment further after research; I just remembered that this is -dev and not -project 21:01 OldCoder So not appropriate forum 21:02 OldCoder But why did you or nrzkt bother to file against MultiCraft if you felt it could not be taken down? 21:03 sfan5 that was before they added that note to their description 21:03 sfan5 two years ago... 21:04 nrzkt OldCoder, yes, the main problem was they are not talking about the original project and didn't expose their sources 21:04 OldCoder If MT is pure LGPL for the purposes of this discussion, is the notification actually sufficient for compliance? 21:04 OldCoder You can answer in the -project channel 21:05 OldCoder All of _game is unencumbered, then? 21:05 OldCoder Takedowns can be attempted, regardless 21:06 sfan5 well they didn't mention the license of the _game content 21:06 OldCoder Appropriate solution might be to start blocking the worst offenders in the server list and in core 21:06 OldCoder to the extent possible 21:06 sfan5 it's pretty much impossible to do in core 21:07 sfan5 as the only things you get are two numbers (protcol versions) 21:07 OldCoder Requires further thought. But you *can* block clients from accessing the server list, right? 21:07 sfan5 yes 21:07 OldCoder I don't propose to block all mobile. But I think Exploration should be blocked. 21:07 OldCoder Just that one initially. Is this a reasonable step? 21:08 sfan5 i'd like to hear others opinions about this 21:08 sfan5 reasonable? IMO only if DMCA was no use 21:08 OldCoder Let's take this to -project. But again we are not DMCA'g. We are filing company-level complaints. 23:11 est31 I think blocking them on a serverlist basis is bad. 23:11 est31 because they just change the user agent to match the minetest one 23:11 est31 and we've got nothing anymore 23:12 est31 we even lose statistics on who uses exploration craft, and who uses the real thing 23:12 est31 so I'm against it, just my opinion 23:13 sofar I don't mind bad clients existing, but I do think that server operators should have a way to detect, identify and even block them 23:13 est31 I do like dmca requests against builds that dont comply with LGPL though 23:13 thePalindrome Aye 23:14 est31 sofar, we shouldn't discriminate people on their client choice. Minetest should not have a pocket edition and a desktop edition 23:15 est31 with mutually incompatible protocols 23:16 est31 especially as the main motive seems to be the predjudice by server operators that all mobile users are "kids" 23:16 est31 but blocking android blocks out all the grown up android users as well 23:16 sofar est31: I wouldn't block mobile clients 23:16 est31 thats not good 23:17 sofar est31: I'd want to however at least identify possible hacked clients, or ones that have advertising 23:17 sofar so I can at least send those users a message in-game that they're being ripped off 23:18 thePalindrome hmm 23:19 est31 identifying "hacked" clients is impossible 23:19 est31 unless we implement RFC 3514 23:19 est31 :) 23:19 thePalindrome Which could still be spoofed :P 23:20 est31 thePalindrome, no, never! 23:21 est31 sofar, I agree with the general idea to tell users that there are ad free clients as well 23:21 thePalindrome Oh, that's the evil bit 23:22 est31 sofar, but I see no way we could implement it 23:23 est31 at least no way that cant be spoofed by the third party clients 23:23 thePalindrome Aye 23:25 est31 and I would not like "giving it a try". 23:34 est31 probably half of the active minetest audience is from multicraft 23:34 est31 ^ plus this 23:34 est31 those apps add users to the minetest platform 23:35 est31 as long as they comply with the LGPL I am fine with them