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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-08-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:15 Hijiri what do formspecs use all the node metadata for?
00:15 Hijiri I know the formspec field and the meta inventory are used
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00:21 paramat APNG you will not get anywhere by insulting us and giving orders, maybe code it yourself?
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01:08 est31 btw, the topic of #lua also includes the text " Pay no attention to Soni/cat5e "
01:09 est31 (Soni == APNG == cat5e)
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01:10 APNG and that's why I don't like to touch lua projects >.>
01:10 APNG (unless they're from tim caswell)
01:10 est31 APNG, I'm sure you earned it
01:11 APNG (then again most tim caswell things don't compile correctly... >.>)
01:11 est31 APNG, if you would be more respectful with people, maybe they would listen to your suggestions
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01:12 APNG est31, it's hard to be nice when you have a deadline
01:12 est31 APNG, ??
01:13 APNG est31, unlike the things I tried to do with luvit, this thing has a deadline
01:13 APNG which's why I'm giving orders
01:13 est31 why does minetest have a deadline
01:13 APNG no, not minetest
01:13 APNG my mod
01:14 APNG also, I don't touch C++, so unless you want me to shove C in your C++, you probably don't want me to touch your C++
01:14 APNG so my only options are to give orders or to hire someone to do C++ for me, and I don't have any money
01:15 est31 or you could just kindly *ask*
01:15 APNG est31, well... how can I get things done before my deadline?
01:15 est31 if your mod has a deadline for whatever reason possible, being kind will get you much farther than being as arrogant as you act atm
01:17 APNG <APNG> can I set custom item names?<+sofar> not currently, no<APNG> can you fix that?<APNG> because I kinda need it
01:17 APNG tbh, I did ask...
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01:19 est31 well you still can develop in APNG and then write a converter to minetest's format
01:20 APNG that doesn't solve the texture pack problem, or the per-frame delay problem
01:20 APNG (apparently you can't have per-frame delay or something)
01:22 est31 the per frame delay issue can be solved differently as well
01:23 est31 for example by extending the timing specified by lua
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01:23 APNG or, alternatively, APNG
01:23 APNG which's a lot easier to support on the client and fully backwards-compatible (just ignore frame timings on the client)
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01:25 est31 is there even a library that supports apng
01:25 est31 as it seems official libpng doesnt include it
01:25 APNG yes
01:25 APNG uh let me find it
01:25 est31 we'd have to add a new mandatory dependency to minetest, that's a big undertaking
01:25 APNG (I forgot the name .-.)
01:26 APNG est31, doesn't libpng let you parse custom chunks? just extract the APNG chunks and make in-memory PNGs so you can extract the frames
01:26 APNG anyway
01:26 APNG it's called Gecko
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01:27 est31 oh you are trolling right?
01:27 est31 gecko is an html rendering engine
01:27 APNG Gecko can parse APNGs and it comes in lib format
01:28 APNG it can do more than just HTML rendering
01:28 est31 and it is gigantic
01:28 est31 not suited for minetest
01:29 Warr1024 Gecko is not gigantic.  Gigantic things are small next to Gecko.
01:29 hmmmm joined #minetest-dev
01:29 est31 but only because it can climb the trump tower!
01:29 est31 :)
01:29 APNG anyway, apparently you can just do this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2568912/how​-do-i-read-an-arbitrary-chunk-from-a-png-file
01:30 APNG if enough ppl adopt full APNG support then it'll be easier to make APNG official
01:30 Warr1024 Why is apng even a thing?  Whatever even happened to mng?  Wasn't that supposed to do the same thing, but not be some obscure feature hidden in only some png handlers?
01:31 est31 idk
01:31 APNG Warr1024, MNG is APNG on steroids, I like to call it "spritesheet-oriented APNG"
01:31 Warr1024 ah.  steroids would probably be harder to support in principle
01:31 APNG because that's basically how it works, you have subsections of an image and you shove a bunch of animations in the same image
01:32 Warr1024 though if there's a reasonably good lib out there, maybe it's a route...
01:32 APNG where each animation is a whole MNG stored in a chunk
01:32 APNG so it's basically a file inside a file, and parsing such recursive things is uh...
01:32 APNG painful...
01:32 APNG so it never gained widespread adoption
01:33 Warr1024 but if there is a libmng which is not painful to integrate, and apng->mng converters, it may be a shortcut to solve your need
01:33 APNG APNG is simple tho
01:33 Warr1024 apng cannot be simple because png is not really simple
01:33 APNG oh, and MNG also puts whole JPEGs inside it
01:34 Warr1024 libpng doesn't support apng?
01:34 est31 no
01:34 APNG so in addition to parsing MNGs and PNGs (because MNG uses some things from PNG), you also need to handle JPEGs
01:35 APNG cool, eh?
01:35 Warr1024 jpeg support in mt is not an entirely unreasonable thing to add
01:35 APNG ಠ_ಠ
01:36 APNG uh I guess some ppl enjoy JPEG artifacts :/
01:36 Warr1024 jpeg still occupies a use niche which does not 100% intersect png's
01:36 APNG unless you're using like 512x512 textures, I don't see why you'd want JPEG
01:37 est31 I think that jpeg doesnt really fit for minetest
01:37 Warr1024 ...which is pretty much how some others feel about apng
01:37 Warr1024 I did try to animate skins once though
01:37 Warr1024 it did kind of sucl
01:37 Warr1024 s/.$/k/
01:38 APNG Warr1024, minetest already uses .png
01:39 Warr1024 yes, and it seems good enough for most users...
01:39 APNG the overall file format is the same, so supporting APNG is uh how can I call it...
01:39 APNG it's not really trivial but uh
01:39 est31 you just have to modify libpng, nothing easier than that
01:39 APNG it's backwards compatible? sort of
01:40 APNG est31, you don't have to modify libpng
01:40 est31 plus probably irrlicht as well
01:40 OldCoder apng is a png patch
01:40 * OldCoder does this
01:40 * OldCoder can test the patch and make a PR if it works
01:40 OldCoder Will this help?
01:40 Warr1024 the term is "non-trivial".  there's even a tag for it in mt's github issue tracker.
01:40 APNG you don't have to modify libpng
01:40 APNG Warr1024, I'm not talking about non-trivial or trivial, I'm talking about something else
01:41 * OldCoder seems to remember a patch. APNG what changes are needed, then?
01:41 est31 OldCoder, you mean this patch? https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-cen​tral/source/media/libpng/apng.patch
01:41 APNG well
01:41 APNG you can do this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2568912/how​-do-i-read-an-arbitrary-chunk-from-a-png-file
01:41 OldCoder Reviewing
01:41 APNG do it a few times to retrieve all the APNG chunks
01:41 est31 That *does* require modification of libpng
01:41 APNG est31, it does?
01:41 est31 which we are not going to do
01:42 Warr1024 yeah, it seems like libpng would have support for some pieces of this, and most of what would be needed to load is just glue
01:42 APNG est31, are we reading the same thing?
01:42 OldCoder est31, APNG I use a different patch. But perhaps they do the same thing.
01:42 Warr1024 going from loading to actually displaying in thr necessary places would probably be more tricky
01:42 APNG loading is easy
01:42 APNG displaying is easy
01:43 APNG the abstractions in between may be a pain depending on the current code >.>
01:43 Warr1024 apng: if you know c but not c++, it's not a huge barrier to contributing.
01:43 Warr1024 C++ is just a superset, really; I
01:43 APNG (seriously don't hardcode this shit, use a parser-and-consumer model)
01:43 APNG Warr1024, no thanks, C++ sucks
01:43 Warr1024 ve contribbed code which is definitely more C than C++
01:44 est31 minetest is very c like in many parts
01:44 APNG est31, then why the C++?
01:44 Warr1024 "C++ sucks" doesn't get your feature done the way you want, either.
01:44 est31 because its only c like not written in c
01:44 APNG but why?
01:45 APNG why's C++ somehow better?
01:45 Warr1024 just hold your breath, dive in, and wash the ++ off yourself after :-)
01:45 APNG you can't use try/catch if you want it to run in emscripten
01:46 APNG and other than templates there's not much of a reason to use C++
01:46 est31 APNG, in c you cant use try/catch either because there is no try/catch
01:46 est31 templates are one of the ugliest parts of c++ in my eyes
01:46 OldCoder C++ vs. C is for other forums and times... what is the proposed change presently?
01:47 est31 OldCoder, APNG wants minetest to adopt the APNG image format
01:47 APNG altho that's not my top priority
01:47 APNG my top priority is custom item names
01:48 APNG either as an addition to what we currently have (trivial) or as a replacement of the itemstack metadata system (non-trivial and backwards-incompatible)
01:49 APNG the trivial option might be easier to get merged
01:50 APNG but it's also uglier
01:51 thePalindrome I still say flif :P
01:51 Hijiri probably it won't get merged because there is some work on better metadata systems
01:51 est31 thePalindrome, ++
01:51 thePalindrome Just as soon as it's done :P
01:51 est31 thePalindrome, but blocker issue is that it gets stabilized AND that it gets a spec written
01:51 thePalindrome It has a spec written, it's just unstable
01:51 Hijiri item metadata is much closer than client side scripting but people still disagree with features that would be special cases of client-side scripting
01:52 Hijiri so probably the same would happen for a specialized item name thing
01:52 thePalindrome Indeed
01:54 thePalindrome Well, things like this are why I want to work more on mintest :P
01:55 OldCoder Lost connection
01:55 OldCoder Missed any response
01:55 OldCoder In case my text was lost:
01:55 OldCoder <OldCoder> APNG, are you proposing apng support without libpng changes?
01:55 OldCoder <OldCoder> By moving some of the functionality into MT? If so, shall we produce a PR so that there is something concrete to present?
01:55 OldCoder
01:56 est31 thePalindrome, it has?
01:56 est31 thePalindrome, links or it didnt happen
01:56 thePalindrome Yeah, lemme grab it
01:57 thePalindrome At the very least a reference build has been made
01:58 thePalindrome I realize now you might not call that a "spec" :P
01:58 thePalindrome https://uprootlabs.github.io/poly-flif
01:58 thePalindrome There's a polyfill
01:58 est31 thats not a spec
01:58 est31 a spec is a document people can use to write implementations with
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01:58 APNG flif sounds stupid imo
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01:58 thePalindrome and apng doesn't? :P
01:59 OldCoder est31, APNG the question is... can apng support be added without modifying libpng if libpng mods are forbidden?
01:59 thePalindrome It outperforms apng at least :shrug:
01:59 OldCoder Hm
01:59 est31 OldCoder, I'm wondering on that as well
01:59 APNG thePalindrome, it doesn't promise to be good at all the things
01:59 OldCoder Could libpng be added to MT? License IIRC is open
01:59 est31 OldCoder, thats not the way to do it, it would be a terrible hack.
01:59 est31 apng is not needed that much
02:00 est31 plus we'd need to maintain it
02:00 APNG OldCoder, you can support apng without modifying libpng
02:00 OldCoder So, it comes down to the question of what is involved to support apng
02:00 OldCoder APNG, go on
02:00 est31 imagine if a CVE is in libpng, we'd need to release a hot patch
02:00 est31 etc etc
02:00 OldCoder If you can explain how elsewhere
02:00 OldCoder est31, right
02:00 APNG apng is final
02:00 OldCoder If you can explain how elsewhere, I can prepare a PR
02:00 APNG so all you have to do is extract the APNG chunks (see the stackoverflow I linked), parse them, then process them
02:00 OldCoder OK
02:01 OldCoder Do you know enough 'C' to do this?
02:01 OldCoder Shall we prepare a pull request?
02:01 thePalindrome Although why do we need animated texture, can the engine even do that?
02:01 est31 thePalindrome, the engine already has a format for animated textures
02:01 thePalindrome APNG: http://flif.info/animation.html
02:01 OldCoder It is an interesting idea. The key questions may not be answered though until the code can be reviewed.
02:02 APNG thePalindrome, the engine already does animated textures, but it has fixed framerate IIRC and framerate is set by the server
02:02 est31 and minetest is not a game about adding as much formats as possible
02:02 thePalindrome Ah, I see
02:02 * thePalindrome ponders
02:02 est31 adding a new format needs to make sense, and in this case I'd say we should wait for flif to become stable and then make the descision
02:02 est31 if we support apng we cant go back, because of compat reasons
02:02 thePalindrome ^
02:02 OldCoder est31, explain
02:02 * OldCoder is curious
02:03 OldCoder Can't have both?
02:03 OldCoder Assuming libpng doesn't need to be modified
02:03 APNG est31, thankfully it's a client-side only change
02:03 est31 <est31> and minetest is not a game about adding as much formats as possible
02:03 OldCoder est31, right, but the question is, why "can't go back" ?
02:04 est31 OldCoder, because clients should be able to load legacy mods/games/ connect to legacy servers
02:04 OldCoder est31, you mean, you could not drop apng support
02:04 OldCoder once added
02:04 est31 yes
02:04 OldCoder Right, this is true. IMHO key question... which needs a PR to discuss... is what is the code to do this really like?
02:04 APNG est31, and that's a pain because it means you're stuck in legacy forever
02:05 OldCoder APNG, I would suggest attempting to produce a branch with the feature for review
02:05 APNG do it the MC way and break things every 0.x version
02:05 OldCoder Um, no :-)
02:05 * OldCoder does not want his worlds to die
02:05 APNG OldCoder, they wouldn't die thanks to git history
02:06 OldCoder APNG, not the forum for this part, but if you mean, servers no longer support old worlds, no, thanks
02:06 est31 Either way, if its really just a small patch and doable without modifying libpng OR irrlicht I might consider supporting the change
02:06 OldCoder See my suggestion though
02:06 OldCoder APNG, ^ that is what you will get for today
02:06 OldCoder I will help you to prepare an apng branch if you like
02:06 APNG est31, well, can you use libpng directly?
02:07 est31 APNG, i dont know the details, but I think minetest has access to libpng directly, yes
02:07 OldCoder No reason it wouldn't
02:07 est31 so libpng header is includeable, etc
02:07 Hijiri what if you can convert it to the animation format we have now?
02:07 APNG so can you refactor the whole rendering code so it separates "parsing" and "displaying"?
02:07 OldCoder Hijiri, on the fly, you mean?
02:07 Hijiri when the client recieves it
02:08 Hijiri oh wait
02:08 Hijiri that doesn't make sense, animations don't exist then
02:08 * OldCoder has a meeting elsewhere. He offers to help APNG prepare a branch if there is a specific small patch to make.
02:08 OldCoder Hijiri, there is an animation format
02:08 OldCoder Limited
02:08 APNG (that way we can turn APNGs into the internal format, as well as legacy animations into the same internal format)
02:08 est31 APNG, thats a reasonable change and I would support it but i dont do it for you sorry
02:08 Hijiri I mean animations aren't sent at asset send time
02:08 Hijiri because they're made dynamically
02:09 est31 APNG, if you find someone to do it for you it can be added, even independently from whether to use apng or not
02:09 OldCoder Right, mods do this in sprites
02:09 APNG (actually, why not add client-side scripting and add all those features to client-side mods?)
02:09 Hijiri it could cache the conversions
02:09 Hijiri maybe at asset send time
02:09 OldCoder got to go, APNG I am offering to try to help with some of this, PM me again
02:09 Hijiri but that's more work than just converting
02:10 APNG well you're still gonna parse it one way or another
02:10 APNG also graphical changes don't affect the ability to load worlds, especially since it's APNG which has a PNG fallback
02:10 est31 GTG as well
02:10 APNG (static image)
02:10 Hijiri I just mean if we tried to glue it onto the existing system
02:11 APNG so APNG support can be added or removed anytime
02:12 thePalindrome Oh yeah, forgot about that
02:15 APNG so yeah, go ahead and add APNG support! if it becomes an issue, just remove it! everything will still work just fine, except animations won't play, but that's not a significant issue
02:16 APNG I need to go sleep...
02:16 APNG good night o/
02:16 thePalindrome Not that I really have much sway here, but I don't see anything to lose here, so why not?
02:16 thePalindrome /)
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02:39 OldCoder May I inquire, is there anything in the core, as opposed to mod-level features such as lifetimers, that despawns (erases) entities?
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02:39 OldCoder Once an entity is created, at the core level, is there any reason it would not last forever?
02:44 sofar I'm fairly sure they are destroyed at a certain point
02:44 sofar I think even handles are recycled
02:44 KaadmY o
02:44 KaadmY oops
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04:25 OldCoder sofar, thank you; is there a timer of some sort internally? Are you saying that mobs can't be immortal?
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05:19 Hijiri entities can be deleted if there are too many in a chunk (block?)
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07:32 red-001 could something be done about #3900 ?
07:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001
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07:42 Hijiri usually a feature won't get written unless someone who can write the code also cares about it
07:42 Hijiri cares enough to write it, at least
07:43 Hijiri cares enough to write it above other features/bug fixes/enhancements
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07:56 T4im thePalindrome: https://wiki.mozilla.org/APNG_Specification ? use duckduckgo, google is terrible at finding useful things (yes, I'm serious, they filter too much)
07:57 T4im and http://pmt.sourceforge.net/specs/png-1.2-pdg.html for extensions in general
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09:45 Thomas-S Hello! Could any of the devs please add a second approval to this ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4267 ), if the PR is ok; or if the PR still needs improvement, tell me what I should improve? Thanks in advance!
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11:08 Zeno` Thomas-S, done
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11:47 nrzkt hi \er
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12:50 paramat 700 issues! :}
12:50 Krock wohoo!
12:51 Krock Next milestone: 800 issues
13:00 paramat closed game#475
13:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/475 -- Have beds to depend necessarily on red dye?
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13:04 sfan5 pushing in 5 minutes http://sprunge.us/UgDf?diff
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13:05 paramat seems ok
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13:21 nrzkt mergin #4267
13:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4267 -- Add an [opacity: texture modifier. by Thomas--S
13:22 APNG nrzkt, what's the use-case for that? why not just use PNG transparency?
13:23 sfan5 APNG: texture modifiers can be used to modify existing textures without creating a new one
13:24 sfan5 also dynamic changes on entities or in formspecs
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15:10 APNG is there any way to display a GUI when rightclicking an item?
15:12 Fixer joined #minetest-dev
15:12 sfan5 there is
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16:12 paramat in my irc client rubenwardy has no 'yellow indicator light' and isn't grouped at the top with other devs
16:13 Calinou rubenwardy is not currently voiced, that's why
16:13 Calinou same for me :)
16:13 Calinou (I mean, I see rubenwardy not grouped with other devs)
16:25 rubenwardy :P
16:26 rubenwardy and yeah, it's voice
16:30 rubenwardy I've been visiting my parents for the last 5 days, which is why I haven't been active
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18:02 paramat Fixer please are you able to reduce the amount of join/quit messages from your 2 nicks?
18:03 Fixer paramat: sorry, I'm currently analysing my boot speed with special tools that needs a lot of restarts
18:03 paramat :}
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18:16 rom1504 use /ignore JOIN QUIT
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18:20 paramat ok
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18:24 jomat /ignore JOIN QUIT lets you speak to people who are already gone
18:27 Fixer i finished my --- with windows, chat is yours now
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20:03 OldCoder We have solved the mystery of the Sadies. This is for discussion in -project and not in -dev. But asking here...
20:03 OldCoder Who was the person who knows how to DMCA illegal clones?
20:04 OldCoder Was that Proller? This is a pretty bad one
20:04 OldCoder It needs to be taken down
20:04 Krock Is there a link for it?
20:09 sfan5 OldCoder: you just need to file a dmca with google and provide an explanation : https://support.google.com/l​egal/troubleshooter/1114905
20:09 OldCoder sfan5, Krock link coming
20:09 OldCoder This is -dev business after all. I have another question:
20:09 OldCoder If the developer proves to be unreasonable, would a core patch to block his product be acceptable?
20:10 sfan5 the first question is whether it's technically possible
20:10 OldCoder I think it is. And the Sadies are coming from an Eastern European Minetest clone that doesn't credit Minetest...
20:10 OldCoder The really annoying part
20:10 OldCoder is that the developer simply implies that he, himself, has created a Minecraft clone
20:11 sfan5 that is definitely a reason to go for dmca
20:11 OldCoder He is also sending 100s of players into Minetest worlds with no explanation
20:11 OldCoder of what the game is
20:11 OldCoder Link:
20:11 OldCoder http://www.explorationbase.com/
20:11 OldCoder He has app versions for Apple AND Android
20:11 OldCoder And is going the whole route on monetization
20:12 OldCoder Proller, I think, DMCA'd Multicraft before or one of the knockoffs
20:12 sfan5 i did
20:12 OldCoder If I can reach him, I'll ask him for...
20:12 OldCoder sfan5, will you help with this one? I will contribute time and editing to the letter
20:12 sfan5 i'll show you what i filed
20:12 OldCoder Review the website. This one is really annoying.
20:12 OldCoder OK. PM or -project.
20:15 Krock backend = dummy -> exploration lite done.
20:16 OldCoder sfan5, dig it up. I am filing with Apple now.
20:17 thePalindrome "Sadies?"
20:19 Krock yes, "Sadie1231", like the guests
20:19 * thePalindrome has never been on a public minetest server
20:21 Krock then you know your next mission ^
20:22 thePalindrome So after the mission "Add a callback that a lot of mods want to use to the engine" comes "join a server? :P"
20:24 thePalindrome Krock: Too late, I've already added a callback that at least somebody else wanted to do :P
20:25 Krock mymod.initialize_callback()
20:26 thePalindrome No silly, I added it to the engine :P
20:28 thePalindrome on_secondary_use
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20:32 * thePalindrome is cool, right?
20:49 nrzkt OldCoder, it was me not proller for multicraft
20:53 OldCoder nrzkt, thanks. I'm on the phone with Apple regarding the issue.
20:55 BrandonReese Are you sure exploration and exploration lite is built off of minetest? I installed it, feels totally different. Interface is completely different. No multiplayer.
20:57 OldCoder BrandonReese, sfan5 says that it includes the readme.txt. It also connects to our servers.
20:57 sfan5 no no
20:57 OldCoder Oh? explain, then
20:57 sfan5 the exploration *you* linked is something different
20:57 sfan5 this one >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/detail​s?id=com.freecraft.freecraft_exploration
20:57 sfan5 uses minetest
20:58 nrzkt OldCoder, i only do it for google, not apple
20:58 OldCoder nrzkt, thanks
20:58 sfan5 and is confusingly also called "Exploration"
20:58 OldCoder So, the Apple link appears to be innocent?
20:58 OldCoder Need to settle this
20:59 OldCoder Because I am on hold for Apple Legal right now
20:59 sfan5 apple link seems innocent yes
20:59 sfan5 (other minetest clones exist on the apple app store however)
20:59 OldCoder Is Andrzej Chomiak's MC clone entirely independent, then?
20:59 OldCoder Right
20:59 sfan5 Yes, it is
20:59 OldCoder Very well
21:00 sfan5 sorry if i didn't make this clear
21:00 OldCoder sfan5, I'm out of time shortly. Would you like to deal with the Google one?
21:00 OldCoder OK
21:00 OldCoder I think
21:00 sfan5 not today at least
21:00 OldCoder We need to start doing this on a more regular basis
21:00 OldCoder I will deal with the Sadies one next week, then
21:00 sfan5 the thing is
21:00 OldCoder Go on
21:00 sfan5 many games mention "bla bla based on lgpl minetest engine" in their description
21:00 OldCoder Right
21:00 sfan5 and then they're out of it
21:00 sfan5 no dmca possible
21:01 OldCoder Actually
21:01 OldCoder It depends
21:01 OldCoder I'll comment further after research; I just remembered that this is -dev and not -project
21:01 OldCoder So not appropriate forum
21:02 OldCoder But why did you or nrzkt bother to file against MultiCraft if you felt it could not be taken down?
21:03 sfan5 that was before they added that note to their description
21:03 sfan5 two years ago...
21:04 nrzkt OldCoder, yes, the main problem was they are not talking about the original project and didn't expose their sources
21:04 OldCoder If MT is pure LGPL for the purposes of this discussion, is the notification actually sufficient for compliance?
21:04 OldCoder You can answer in the -project channel
21:05 OldCoder All of _game is unencumbered, then?
21:05 OldCoder Takedowns can be attempted, regardless
21:06 sfan5 well they didn't mention the license of the _game content
21:06 OldCoder Appropriate solution might be to start blocking the worst offenders in the server list and in core
21:06 OldCoder to the extent possible
21:06 sfan5 it's pretty much impossible to do in core
21:07 sfan5 as the only things you get are two numbers (protcol versions)
21:07 OldCoder Requires further thought. But you *can* block clients from accessing the server list, right?
21:07 sfan5 yes
21:07 OldCoder I don't propose to block all mobile. But I think Exploration should be blocked.
21:07 OldCoder Just that one initially. Is this a reasonable step?
21:08 sfan5 i'd like to hear others opinions about this
21:08 sfan5 reasonable? IMO only if DMCA was no use
21:08 OldCoder Let's take this to -project. But again we are not DMCA'g. We are filing company-level complaints.
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23:11 est31 I think blocking them on a serverlist basis is bad.
23:11 est31 because they just change the user agent to match the minetest one
23:11 est31 and we've got nothing anymore
23:12 est31 we even lose statistics on who uses exploration craft, and who uses the real thing
23:12 est31 so I'm against it, just my opinion
23:13 sofar I don't mind bad clients existing, but I do think that server operators should have a way to detect, identify and even block them
23:13 est31 I do like dmca requests against builds that dont comply with LGPL though
23:13 thePalindrome Aye
23:14 est31 sofar, we shouldn't discriminate people on their client choice. Minetest should not have a pocket edition and a desktop edition
23:15 est31 with mutually incompatible protocols
23:16 est31 especially as the main motive seems to be the predjudice by server operators that all mobile users are "kids"
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23:16 est31 but blocking android blocks out all the grown up android users as well
23:16 sofar est31: I wouldn't block mobile clients
23:16 est31 thats not good
23:17 sofar est31: I'd want to however at least identify possible hacked clients, or ones that have advertising
23:17 sofar so I can at least send those users a message in-game that they're being ripped off
23:18 thePalindrome hmm
23:19 est31 identifying "hacked" clients is impossible
23:19 est31 unless we implement RFC 3514
23:19 est31 :)
23:19 thePalindrome Which could still be spoofed :P
23:20 est31 thePalindrome, no, never!
23:21 est31 sofar, I agree with the general idea to tell users that there are ad free clients as well
23:21 thePalindrome Oh, that's the evil bit
23:22 est31 sofar, but I see no way we could implement it
23:23 est31 at least no way that cant be spoofed by the third party clients
23:23 thePalindrome Aye
23:25 est31 and I would not like "giving it a try".
23:34 est31 <STHGOM> probably half of the active minetest audience is from multicraft
23:34 est31 ^ plus this
23:34 est31 those apps add users to the minetest platform
23:35 est31 as long as they comply with the LGPL I am fine with them
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