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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-08-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 est31 sofar, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15336
00:10 est31 have fun, if you could report whether it works for you it would be cool
00:15 est31 I think I'll go offline now
00:30 Hijiri If someone was to add an "add_velocity" method to ObjectRefs for pushing players around, lua entities should respond similarly for consistency, right?
00:32 Hijiri oh, there's already a PR with some discussion
00:38 Hijiri What if entities had multiple "movement models" that could be used, with each one being predicted separately by the client side?
00:38 Hijiri The current velocity + acceleration one we have now would be one
00:39 Hijiri An example of another possible one is a "path movement model", where the entity has a set path along points, a velocity, and a start time
00:39 Hijiri this model could be used for e.g. carts
00:41 Hijiri using setvelocity or setacceleration (and maybe moveto) would switch to the default model we have now, and using path stuff could switch to the path one
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11:44 paramat nore and all game#1238
11:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1238 -- Default: Optimise and simplify leafdecay ABM, remove cache by paramat
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11:53 Krock so it wasn't possible to fix the decay cache?
11:54 Krock the code looks good to me, simple and easy
11:55 paramat the cache is possibly fixable, but has too many issues
11:56 paramat as well as being insanely huge in size
11:58 paramat #1249 is trivial i feel
11:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1249 -- Minetest Slackware
11:58 paramat ugh
11:58 paramat game#1249
11:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1249 -- Faster find snow near sapling by tenplus1
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12:00 Krock is_snow_nearby must return either true or false. not nil and nodedef
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12:01 Krock but this usually doesn't make a difference.
12:01 paramat ah
12:03 paramat hm, not sure if to be strict or faster
12:05 paramat returns pos or `nil`
12:05 paramat well it should work so let's be faster
12:15 paramat nore sfan5 any opinions on game#475 ?
12:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/475 -- Have beds to depend necessarily on red dye?
12:18 Calinou paramat: can you explain why -1 on https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1235 ? considering I'm proposing a skin conversion tool
12:18 Calinou we aren't going to stay on <1.7 format, it's too limited
12:19 Calinou nearly all Minecraft skins use the new format already
12:19 Calinou and there's already converters out there, we just need to mainline one in Minetest repo
12:19 Calinou (Python script probably)
12:19 paramat will add explanation
12:19 Calinou ok
12:19 Calinou also, 64×32 vs 64×64 is no real performance impact
12:19 Calinou if you complain about skin file size, then use OptiPNG and reduce to 256-color palette
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12:20 paramat hm maybe i'm neutral instead
12:27 paramat i'm neutral, i misunderstood something sorry
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13:42 Fixer paramat: have you thinked about ice lately?
13:43 Fixer paramat: i remember glacial biome has ice, but snowy forest biome + river will not have icy in river, right?
13:43 * paramat .oO(hmmm, cool, refreshing)
13:43 paramat correct
13:44 Fixer paramat: https://i.imgur.com/DSrbUEh.jpg like here, is it intentional that river does not have at least some icy blocks?
13:46 paramat yes intentional. perhaps ice blocks are possible with decorations
13:47 paramat my feeling was that ice doesn't form easily in a river so i chose no ice over solid ice
13:47 Krock rivers dno't freeze easily
13:47 Krock *don't
13:48 Krock maybe the border would be a bit frozen
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14:55 APNG does minetest have torrent downloads?
14:58 Krock Why do you need that? It's not illegal
15:07 Fixer Krock: maybe he likes to download faster
15:08 Krock oh yes. Minetest ships thousands of kilobytes of data
15:09 Fixer Krock: you can download 20mb of minetest much faster with torrents in certain conditions %)
15:09 Krock oh yes. That's true. People don't want to wait long to finally play Minetest
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15:25 Calinou Fixer: any decent server has good enough bandwidth for direct download
15:25 Calinou provided you use remote_media
15:34 Fixer Calinou: i mean not server, but game.zip itself
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15:41 Calinou Minetest is like a 20 MB download…
15:41 Calinou (at most)
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15:51 Krock I squash my builds into a 6 MiB archive - without any subgame. The players must update it themselves
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15:52 Fixer 20mb is very small by todays standards anyway
15:58 sfan5 -rw-r--r-- 1 sfan5 sfan5 13M May 15 14:47 minetest-0.4.14-win64.7z
15:58 sfan5 and that's with extra subgames included
15:58 Krock 7z is your friend ;)
16:06 APNG Krock, can minetest handle 1000s of concurrent downloads?
16:06 Krock don't know about other players but my router keeps crashing sometimes when loading the media
16:06 APNG hmm...
16:06 APNG meh
16:06 APNG why can't I just pack my own minetest...
16:07 Krock you can.
16:07 APNG exactly
16:07 APNG I'm stupid .-.
16:13 Fixer i doubt there will be 1000s of concurrent downloads
16:39 APNG can I use zerobrane studio with minetest?
16:40 KaadmY APNG: it should work, minetest doesn't have anything really specific in MT only
16:40 KaadmY it's mods are lua, zerobrane handles that iirc
16:42 APNG can I use the debugger?
16:47 Tesseract I don't think there's anything blocking just switching to C++11 now.  It's supported with all but the stock compilers on the oldest LTS releases (and those probably aren't gaming desktops anyways).
16:48 Tesseract Also: https://github.com/ShadowNinja/MC2MT  sofar: I finally got to publishing it :-)
16:49 Tesseract ^ like nore's converter but something like 10-100x faster.
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16:50 Krock Minetest was not only designed for gaming desktopis
16:50 Krock *desktops
16:50 Tesseract 16m0.8s vs 7s was one comparison (although it was on different computers).
16:51 Tesseract Krock: I mean, those computers are probably headless servers.
16:51 Krock could you do the test on the same machine? Different ones can't be compared anyway
16:51 Tesseract Although the server would run on those.
16:52 Tesseract You can just update your compiler, install a prebuilt package, or cross compile though, if you care about having a recent game but not a recent OS...
16:52 Tesseract Krock: Moment.
17:06 Tesseract Well, 14500 blocks and still waiting...
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17:11 Krock heheh.. let the computer calculate, that's why they were built
17:11 Krock hello est31
17:11 est31 hi Krock
17:11 KaadmY hi Krockpot ;_;
17:12 Krock Hi akaademy
17:12 KaadmY :P
17:12 KaadmY K, a dummy!
17:12 KaadmY ^ don't call me that :P
17:12 Amaz That's not the right way to address Krock!
17:13 Amaz The proper salutation for him is:
17:13 Amaz Hello Krockolony of the holy lands of Krocky island, first of the Sir Mc Krock family.
17:13 Amaz :P
17:13 Krock please, this is the wrong channel
17:13 KaadmY Amazing
17:13 Amaz Opps :P
17:14 Tesseract Krock: 16m53.2s vs. 7.0s.
17:14 Krock wow, that's really a difference.
17:14 Tesseract 144.7x faster.
17:15 Tesseract Part of that is threading.  My program's multithreaded and I have two cores (with hyperthreading).
17:16 est31 nice
17:16 Krock Sounds like cheating.
17:16 Tesseract Something like 50% of the program's time is spent in zlib doing compression/decompression, so it's getting pretty close to the limit.
17:17 est31 Tesseract, about requiring c++11: we currently still support 12.04 LTS
17:17 Tesseract Krock: It's still very fast in simglethreaded mode.
17:17 est31 (which PilzAdam is using)
17:18 Tesseract est31: Just have them update their compiler.  C++17 is already rolling out.
17:18 est31 Tesseract, on linux its not that simple especially with libraries with cpp interfaces
17:18 est31 if irrlicht comes from the system, and you use a newer compiler you get in trouble
17:19 est31 (or any other cpp library minetest is using)
17:20 Tesseract Make PA update then :-P.  There's a newer LTS already.
17:23 est31 Tesseract, do you have time for a PR review session
17:24 est31 we review PRs and merge those we think are okay
17:24 est31 there are > 150 open prs, a bad situation
17:24 Krock with tendence to increase
17:25 Tesseract est31: Eh, maybe.  I'll look through a few notifications.
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17:28 sofar Tesseract: ah, nice!
17:29 * Krock waits to rebase & build his local repo later
17:29 sofar Tesseract: I'll have to look at your table layout but conversions.h seems self-explanatory enough
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17:54 Fixer Tesseract: pr 3810, please decide what to do with it, i played with it for many weeks, found nothing else except minor issues I already described
17:58 Krock #3810
17:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3810 -- Try to fix jumping at node edge again by ShadowNinja
18:01 Tesseract Fixer: Well, I could merge it.  I don't think there's anything I can do about it seeking a bit more"jiggly" for you thought.
18:01 Tesseract seeming*
18:03 Fixer Tesseract: that jiggle thing, only masohists make those kinds of 2block stair shafts
18:03 Krock damn it.
18:05 Krock Fixer, but why the masochists? It's a free ladder
18:05 Krock and ladders don't hurt ;)
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18:22 Tesseract I'll merge it if I get approval from someone.
18:24 Tesseract Also https://github.com/minetest/minetest/compar​e/master...ShadowNinja:check-float-not-nan fixes #4425 and #3326, and should probably be merged.  I just need an approval for that.
18:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4425 -- Assertion failure: sanitize some values obtained from mods (yaw, velocity, etc.) by Rogier-5
18:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3326 -- Check that LuaEntitySAO::setVelocity's parameter and generally Lua's v3f inputs are not NaN by celeron55
18:28 est31 #4363
18:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4363 -- Call FATAL_ERROR() on lua panic, instead of exit(). by Rogier-5
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18:36 Fixer Krock: example: https://imgur.com/UmsgUPt (i made it, i admit)
18:36 Fixer Krock: slight jiggle here
18:40 paramat dungeons are filled with 2 block stair shafts. i should test 3810
18:41 paramat i'll try to test it soon
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21:59 sofar est31: if you see this - perhaps adding installation instructions to the flatpak is needed
21:59 sofar est31: I'm not sure how to get it to install myself on the cmdline
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22:51 APNG can I encrypt node metadata?
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23:02 sofar yes
23:02 APNG can I set custom item names?
23:02 Hijiri not from metadata
23:02 sofar not currently, no
23:02 APNG can you fix that?
23:02 sofar you mean tooltip text, right?
23:02 APNG because I kinda need it
23:02 Hijiri there are some github issues/PRs for it, but nothing merged yet
23:02 APNG yes
23:03 sofar APNG: I've worked on several PRs with several folks, nothing conclusive yet
23:03 sofar it's certainly possible, question is how
23:03 APNG just replace the string metadata with a table metadata
23:04 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=13732
23:04 APNG I need it to display metadata
23:04 sofar there's a minetest PR open but unlikely to get merged
23:04 sofar metadata is arbitrary, so, it needs a standard
23:05 sofar that's the whole problem
23:05 APNG yes
23:05 APNG actually no
23:05 sofar it also needs to get serialized into the player store
23:05 APNG just add a "display name" field
23:05 sofar there is no field
23:05 sofar it has no structure
23:05 APNG that's why I said "add"
23:05 APNG it should be a string
23:05 APNG associated with an ItemStack
23:05 sofar can't add a structure without core change
23:06 sofar the PRs open add a structure
23:06 sofar they're not merged
23:06 APNG then bump the version to 0.5 >.>
23:06 sofar feel free to help out getting the problem solved
23:06 Hijiri APNG: do you mean a new field completely separate from the existing metadata?
23:06 APNG ok so
23:06 APNG replace the metadata field
23:07 APNG use a serialization lib like serpent to support tables in it
23:07 sofar e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3449
23:07 APNG (that's not really replacing)
23:07 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3984
23:08 APNG why max_stack=1 only?
23:08 sofar don't duplicate another serialization lib, minetest already has code to serialize/deserialize
23:08 APNG uh
23:08 sofar can't stack items with different metadata
23:08 APNG serpent can do cyclic references
23:09 sofar you won't get it merged
23:09 APNG sofar, I never said different metadata
23:09 sofar sure, maybe some items can be stacked
23:10 APNG but imagine 20 items with the same metadata, "function x() [20 opcodes]", and you wanna be able to stack them so you can carry them all at once to multiple places
23:10 sofar sure, I'll allow that
23:11 APNG meh :/
23:11 sofar congrats, you've spotted an improvement. have a cookie
23:11 APNG I wish we had client mods
23:11 APNG we wouldn't need any of this
23:11 Hijiri someone was working on it, last I saw
23:11 sofar Hijiri: orwell96 gave up
23:11 Hijiri oh
23:11 Hijiri rip
23:12 Hijiri is duckbrain orwell96?
23:12 sofar dunno
23:12 Hijiri bottom of #3440
23:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3440 -- Client side Lua scripting
23:12 Hijiri or near-bottom
23:12 Hijiri it used to be the bottom
23:13 sofar different person I think
23:13 sofar APNG: client side mod modify tooltip text? possibly could work, yes
23:13 sofar but then you can't hide node metadata and have to send it to all clients
23:13 APNG sofar, client side mods (note the s) to implement all the things minetest takes too long to implement
23:14 sofar I noted the "s"...
23:14 sofar "(a) client side mod (to) modify the tooltip text"
23:15 APNG I also don't get why minetest doesn't send only what's relevant to the client
23:15 sofar (not that node metadata is secret right now)
23:16 sofar APNG: what data does it send out that is not relevant?
23:16 APNG (with the current system, making the server send only what the client should see would be trivial)
23:16 APNG sofar, it sends the whole node metadata
23:16 APNG instead of only the things that matter
23:16 sofar it needs that for the formspec I think
23:16 APNG then make it so the formspec is easier to parse
23:17 APNG put a "params" element
23:17 APNG or something
23:17 APNG and bam, problem solved, it can just use that to decide what to send
23:18 APNG (the server can strip the params element, which means it's a backwards compatible change)
23:19 APNG or add a special field to hide things from the client
23:20 APNG (a list of fields to hide, that is)
23:20 sofar small problem, big solution
23:21 APNG in other words I have to make my own voxel engine because you're too stupid to care about performance
23:23 APNG (you're basically telling me I have to decrypt 1000s of nodes in as few ms as possible)
23:24 sofar you're reading into things too much
23:24 sofar I want what you want
23:24 sofar don't Trump me by twisting my words
23:25 APNG yes uh
23:25 APNG you as in the developers
23:25 sofar I don't represent the developers, I'm just one of them talking in here
23:27 * sofar afk - commuting
23:28 APNG yeah well ping the other devs or something :/

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