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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-07-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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16:05 paramat nore sfan5 sofar please can anyone review/approve game#965 ? we sorted out the issues yesterday and now it's tested
16:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/965 -- Ability to Disable bones, drop items or keep inventory. by tenplus1
16:05 sfan5 then merge it
16:06 paramat ok
16:08 paramat nore sfan5 Zeno` any opinion on #4336 ? so far reviewer devs are neutral
16:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4336 -- Shaders: Disable by default by paramat
16:09 sfan5 haven't tested, can't comment
16:10 paramat there are comparison screenshots and data in #4335
16:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4335 -- Disable shaders by default (or make tangent space to only be used when necessary)
16:17 Zeno` I haven't tested it either :(
16:17 Zeno` but... how do shaders make things slower?
16:18 Zeno` merge 965
16:19 hmmmm there's rendering code that toggles between regular vertexes and tangent vertexes if shaders are enabled
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16:23 paramat PR is temporary, eventually of course we need to only enable tangent space when actually needed (normalmpas)
16:24 hmmmm everything is temporary until it's not
16:24 hmmmm that's a horrible policy
16:26 paramat well yeah, 'temporary' is redundant
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16:31 hmmmm no, 'temporary' becomes the new normal because the problem is now hidden
16:31 hmmmm not because of any sort of redunancy
16:34 VanessaE hmmmm: which is better though?  a temp solution that exists and at least helps, or a permanent solution that never comes to pass?
16:34 paramat sometimes it takes time for a complex fix to be done, in the meantime if the problem is serious enough, as here, a workaround is needed
16:34 paramat we have to make sure the proper fix is done of course
16:35 hmmmm how are you going to guarantee that
16:35 hmmmm what are the steps you'll take
16:38 paramat bug people to work on it, thing is, who understands that code?
16:39 hmmmm nobody.  you'll have to learn
16:39 hmmmm it sucks that you have to learn new things in life but you'll live
16:40 paramat :P
16:45 paramat anyone know if normalmaps are the only effect requiring tangent space? personally i find bumpmapping very ugly, i would remove that and tangent space completely. however some mods and texture packs do use normalmaps
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17:04 Fixer man, minetest development is so overzealous
17:05 paramat so the issue here is that our default is basic nodes shader only enabled, which means since tangent space was added FPS has dropped unnecessarily by 20%-50%, this is a big issue
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17:13 paramat the option will remain and players will soon find it and try it, it's just obvious we shouldn't have this bad situation set as the default
17:15 rubenwardy as requested, game#1220
17:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1220 -- Move books and papyrus into separate mod by rubenwardy
17:17 paramat looking
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17:45 VanessaE paramat: tangent space was added to support parallax mapping, actually.
17:45 VanessaE if I remember correctly.
17:46 VanessaE normalmaps didn't need it before, still shouldn't.
17:46 VanessaE (at least theoretically shouldn't)
17:47 VanessaE RBA was having problems getting textures to tile correctly when parallax was enabled, in particular dirt with grass sides, the upper grass edging would echo itself to the bottom of the node at some viewing angles.
17:47 VanessaE (and any other similar textures)
17:48 paramat ok
17:48 VanessaE in fact, if I remember right, THAT feature was also why using a texture atlas was forbidden, in his eye.
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18:06 Fixer i think you can simply find that pr paramat posted earlier, and check the date and reread few months of logs before that, it should have some discussion, i will look at it
18:09 Fixer actually here http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2016-01-02 paramat and hmmmm probably talking about this issue
18:14 nolsen What settings should I use to optimize minetest server? It's hogging 60% of my 1GB RAM.
18:15 nolsen Sometimes eat my singlecore.
18:16 Fixer paramat: this one? http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2016-02-22#i_4541319 "RealBadAngel, only bumpmapping and parallax can trigger tangent space on"
18:18 paramat interesting
18:23 paramat i wonder if that's actually the case though?
18:26 paramat perhaps he meant only those effects 'use' tangent space
18:27 paramat no description in his PR :(
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18:27 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/3530#issuecomment-169119242
18:36 paramat indeed it seems to be switched with basic shaders
18:39 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3654​/commits/b04266dfb5ef2160f72547e0418d627930c40​4fc#diff-c2f90db5de8c33a259c27113939c63c5R1243
18:44 Fixer yeah, i guess so
18:44 paramat ugh, no descriptions in PRs, no commit messages, so messy
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18:53 paramat and that part of the PR is the one hmmmm pointed out in our previous discussion
18:54 paramat "since tangent space is crucial for any advanced effect, removing it completely is out of discussion" i assume this was done because he had plans for using tangent space in many future effects
18:55 paramat so left it enabled whenever basic shaders was enabled
18:56 paramat i'll merge game#965 game#1219 later
18:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/965 -- Ability to Disable bones, drop items or keep inventory. by tenplus1
18:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1219 -- Replace deprecated get_look_yaw/set_look_yaw by SmallJoker
19:05 VanessaE +
19:11 VanessaE oops.
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