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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-07-14

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Time Nick Message
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01:13 Hijiri do particle spawners get sent to all clients, so that a player too far to see a spawner will see it when he gets close?
01:27 hmmmmmm paramat:  reading through that issue, seems to me like it's a problem with the user's lua code, not the engine.
01:27 hmmmmmm real life mapgen v6:  http://i.imgur.com/Mgemkx0.jpg
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01:27 hmmmmmm hijiri:  yes
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07:24 tenplus1 hi folks
07:24 tenplus1 pull game#1194 amended
07:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1194 -- Changed door groups to be more like material used by tenplus1
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08:55 tenplus1 sapling height check before growing into tree: game#1195
08:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1195 -- Sapling height check before growth by tenplus1
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10:53 VanessaE [07-14 06:52] <VanessaE> it just occurred to me that perhaps the easiest solution [to the protection issue] is to add a new node def field to saplings that specifies the [height/width/girth] of the fully-grown tree.
10:53 VanessaE then the growth code could just check those specified values instead of trying to ascertain the tree's size the hard way
10:54 tenplus1 isnt that overkill for a tree ?
10:54 VanessaE why so?  grown_size = {X, Y, Z}  seems pretty simple to me
10:55 VanessaE growth from the side is an issue also, that's what the discussion was mostly focused on
10:55 tenplus1 and if ANY of the volume lays within a protected area it wont grow ?
10:55 VanessaE e.g. a pine or acacia tree is fairly wide
10:55 VanessaE that was the final decision I believe, yeah
10:55 VanessaE paramat, *poke*
10:55 VanessaE (let's see if he's awake and monitoring the log ;) )
10:56 tenplus1 so you would have to check each corner of the volume ?
10:56 VanessaE I think the plan was to check the 6 cardinal sides, rather than the corners.
10:56 tenplus1 please explain 6 cardinal ?
10:56 nore hm, the corners would be better imho
10:56 VanessaE centered above the sapling, below it, and to each of the four sides.
10:57 VanessaE 6 directions from the center of the sapling, rather than 8 corners.
10:57 VanessaE (well five directions, you don't need to check downward)
10:57 tenplus1 so you would need to store the player inside sapling metadata to check those
10:57 VanessaE yes.
10:57 VanessaE that was the plan.
10:57 nore VanessaE: yes, but with that it is easy to modify an area owner by a player
10:57 VanessaE nore: what do you mean?
10:58 tenplus1 what if tree is large and the 6 cardinals lay outside check ?
10:58 nore VanessaE: place a sapling in diagonal to the corner
10:58 VanessaE ah right
10:58 VanessaE you're right, checking the corners is better.
10:58 nore whereas with the corners, if the area is a cuboid
10:58 tenplus1 a house right in the middle of the tree growth will be replaced completely
10:58 VanessaE but what of my idea to specify the tree's final size (plus some fudge factor) for the purpose of that check?
10:59 nore the only risk is if some of the dimensionss are completely included inside the size
10:59 tenplus1 that's why I opted for the line of sight check, from just above sapling to total height of tree... if it finds any block there it doesnt grow...
10:59 tenplus1 and players tend to protect horizontally around houses to stop anyone from growing right at the sides
10:59 nore hm, I guess specifying the tree size is indeed a good idea
10:59 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1195
10:59 VanessaE good :)
11:00 VanessaE for L-system trees you could just specify the maximum height/width/girth a model can ever take
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11:02 tenplus1 so basically the dimensions are included in sapling, the sapling contains 'placer' name, and if all conditions set to grow it checks each of the 6 (or corners) if it lays within another protected area before growing actual tree ?
11:03 VanessaE yes, and if it can't grow, the user should be warned
11:03 VanessaE I think popping the sapling back out as a dropped item is best.
11:03 VanessaE no one will ever reasonably expect a dropped item to re-plant itself.
11:03 tenplus1 and if it despawns then they lose the sapling
11:03 VanessaE oh well!
11:03 VanessaE sucks to be them if they can't pay attention to where they're planting.
11:03 tenplus1 how about changing infotext of sapling ? (cannot grow due to protection etc)
11:03 VanessaE but I meant pop it out on place,
11:04 VanessaE not when the timer expires.
11:04 VanessaE infotext isn't a bad idea I guess
11:05 tenplus1 hover over to see status (growing, cannot grow in protected area, someone pee'd on me)
11:05 VanessaE if you really wanted to get fancy (and this is the domain of an add-on mod) you could draw a worldedit-like box around the sapling if it won't grow, and additional boxes inside of that showing where the protection conflict is :)
11:06 tenplus1 right clicking saplign maybe shows growth box (like protector mod) ?
11:06 VanessaE good idea.  also best handled by a mod
11:07 VanessaE same sort of idea could perhaps be used with other situations where it's easy to get tripped up by protection areas.
11:08 tenplus1 also, waht if ownership of area changes hand and the saplings are all named to the original owner...  would they even know to replace them all again ?
11:09 VanessaE that's a corner case best ignored, I think.
11:10 VanessaE changing ownership of an area is so uncommon that it's really not worth trying to code in a special case for it.
11:11 tenplus1 thing is, we cant ignore that... I have players who build for other users then pass protection over...  farms, tree farms etc...  which under latest changes dont grow for up to 2-4 minetest days... I'm having many complaints over tree's themselvesd
11:11 tenplus1 adding further complications and checks for somethign as simple as a tree is going to annoy players more
11:12 VanessaE well the thing is, how's the tree/code going to know that ownership has changed?
11:12 VanessaE the only way that can be reasonably handled is for the protection mod to do it.
11:12 VanessaE i.e. have it check all around the protected zone for saplings owned by whoever's handing off their area.
11:13 tenplus1 further complicating sapling growth code...    K.I.S.S. is required here
11:13 VanessaE exactly.
11:14 VanessaE place sapling -> checks owner -> checks corners -> either it's planted or denied with a message.  on growth, check ownership and corners, either pop out as an item if it fails or use infotext.
11:14 VanessaE let the protection mod handle corner cases like area ownership changes.
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11:32 VanessaE nore: done coding it yet? :D
11:32 nore VanessaE: I'm at work :P
11:32 VanessaE only kidding anyway :)
11:35 tenplus1 I do like the idea of storing tree dimensions in the sapling node though
11:35 VanessaE if you store them as a node def property, then they'll "just work" for everything already planted.
11:36 VanessaE (at which point only ownership of old saplings is an issue, and we covered that already)
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11:49 tenplus1 will use that idea and add 'grown_height' to saplings for los checks :) see how well it works
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12:07 tenplus1 hi paramat
12:08 paramat nore any comments on game#1194 ?
12:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1194 -- Changed door groups to be more like material used by tenplus1
12:08 paramat hello
12:10 VanessaE I guess he wasn't paying attention to the log. :)
12:10 tenplus1 lol
12:10 paramat sapling placer doesn't need to be stored http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2016-07-12#i_4649037
12:10 paramat well i just woke up and read it
12:12 VanessaE ah right, I forgot about that part of the convo.
12:12 paramat either check all nodes (if fast enough) or just some corners
12:12 VanessaE paramat: what about my idea of hard-coding the max size of the tree as a node def property?
12:12 paramat oh yeah, possibly good
12:13 VanessaE ok.
12:13 paramat but we know that already it will be coded into the volume check
12:13 paramat so may be redundant
12:13 VanessaE nonono
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12:13 VanessaE the point of it is to avoid the volume test entirely.
12:14 paramat you mean just check corners?
12:14 VanessaE yeah
12:14 paramat yeah
12:14 VanessaE use the hard-coded size to perform a corners-only check and forget the whole all-nodes test or trying to calculate the actual size.
12:14 paramat seems good
12:16 paramat it may need a few more ponts checked, like tree centre and lower corners etc
12:16 VanessaE lower corners were implied :)
12:16 VanessaE check all 8 corners, maybe the five faces excluding -Y if you're really paranoid :)
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12:17 paramat maybe all 8 plus 1 central or something
12:17 VanessaE yeah
12:17 VanessaE anything more than that is overkill
12:18 VanessaE and if the size of the tree is not perfect, it's a small matter to bump up the size specified in the sapling's node def.
12:18 VanessaE (that way you can add some fudge factor, like to account for a bit of air space around the tree)
12:19 paramat yes good
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12:20 paramat est suggests a fast all-nodes check API may be possible, but until that arrives we could try this simpler way
12:20 paramat i don't consider all-nodes check essential
12:22 VanessaE yeah in retrospect I don't see a great need for it.
12:22 VanessaE all that aside, another point was raised:
12:23 VanessaE do a line-of-sight check between the sapling and the projected height of the tree (also I'd do the same for all 8 corners), and refuse to grow if there's an obstruction.
12:26 VanessaE (I can't imagine this would be particularly cheap, but shouldn't be TOO expensive either)
12:26 tenplus1 game#1195
12:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1195 -- Sapling height check before growth by tenplus1
12:26 paramat hm
12:26 VanessaE actually, line-of-sight just to the upper four corners, center, and top center.
12:27 VanessaE you wouldn't want to check the lower corners, because that would stop someone from say planting a sapling right next to a bench for later.
12:27 VanessaE (a perfectly safe operation since there are no leaves for the first few meters' height)
12:27 paramat working upwards with checks every 2, 3, or 4 nodes perhaps
12:27 paramat instead of every node
12:27 VanessaE that might do.
12:27 VanessaE it doesn't have to be perfect.
12:28 paramat how small can protected areas get in common use?
12:28 VanessaE in common use, as narrow as a few meters.
12:28 VanessaE roads for example.
12:29 VanessaE I've done areas that were like 3x3 meters wide, and hundreds tall
12:29 VanessaE (like "fast drop to the bottom" mine shafts)
12:31 VanessaE I think the smallest protected space I've seen was 3 or 4 nodes' worth, a street sign and its signpost
12:32 paramat then i think check every 4 nodes is enough, that could miss a 3x3x3 volume but only very rarely
12:33 VanessaE seems fair
12:34 VanessaE once this goes live, for moretrees, I'll probably just do 8-corner checks and maybe line of sight to the upper four.
12:34 VanessaE maybe you could make a generic API call that I could use? :)
12:36 paramat possibly a good idea
12:36 VanessaE note this for the record, people:  paramat and I finally agreed on something from the first try :D
12:41 tenplus1 lol
12:42 tenplus1 I tried the node setting for tree height for ethereal and it works well vanessa :)
12:43 VanessaE it's a good start :)
12:43 VanessaE but trees aren't tall, thin poles :)
12:43 VanessaE (well at least other than poplars and certain cypresses)
12:46 tenplus1 paramat: changed game#1194
12:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1194 -- Changed door groups to be more like material used by tenplus1
12:50 paramat yeah i saw +1
12:51 tenplus1 kewl :)
12:59 paramat reading project channel i can see how essential this is now (shara's experience)
13:01 paramat so i might code a prototype check soon, maybe later it can be improved with new APIs
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13:35 tenplus1 is anyone looking into this particulat feature by any chance ?? #4215
13:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4215 -- Lit Particle Effects.
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14:01 everamzah #4317
14:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4317 -- Documentation for checkbox[] incorrect
14:04 Krock either the documentation is wrong or the parseCheckbox is incomplete
14:05 everamzah i'll do a pr to fix the doc, but hopefully parseCheckbox could be fixed to match the doc instead
14:05 Krock add a pull to make parseCheckbox complete :)
14:05 everamzah like the f i could do that
14:05 everamzah why is it easy?
14:07 Krock oh wait. it's a documentation error because it's possible to add a tooltip to any element with tooltip[
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18:10 paramat nore sofar any opinion on game#1190 ? (once the readme is done < rubenwardy)
18:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1190 -- Move Nyancats into a separate mod by rubenwardy
18:11 paramat also game#1194 ?
18:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1194 -- Changed door groups to be more like material used by tenplus1
18:20 paramat also game#1164
18:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1164 -- Variable and Value cleanup to prepare CI-Linting by t4im
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18:25 paramat hopefully i can merge some of those later along with game 1191
18:25 twoelk -but trees aren't tall, thin poles- , ever seen the bambus biomes on Xanadu?
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18:32 paramat yeah we have a proper check planned which checks the edges too
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