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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-07-09

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Time Nick Message
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03:49 SloanOnLinux hi
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05:46 paramat ~tell tenplus1 saplings need light 13, only a meselamp (light level 14) directly next to (not diagonally adjacent) will work
05:46 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
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07:15 Zeno` I don't get what's going on with #4142
07:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4142 -- Item description bug
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07:16 Zeno` ugh
07:16 Zeno` the macro is wrong
07:19 Zeno` I dunno... I think it's insane
07:19 Zeno` or I am
07:19 Zeno` maybe I need to nest #ifs instead of having it all on one line, I dunno
07:20 Zeno` it seems like it should be much simpler than this :/
07:21 Zeno` yeah it needs to be nested ifs to check the version correctly
07:21 Zeno` *sigh*
07:29 Zeno` rofl
07:30 Zeno` http://dpaste.com/3YYQZ9J
07:30 Zeno` very elegant :)
07:30 Zeno` missing an endif
07:30 Zeno` http://dpaste.com/2KQVSFK
07:31 Zeno` surely there is a better way :/
07:31 Zeno` actually that will break for version 1.9.0, 1.9.1 etc
07:32 Zeno` need more nesting!
07:37 Zeno` actually, bugger it
07:38 Zeno` something like   #if (IRRLICHT_VERSION_MAJOR * 100000 + IRRLICHT_VERSION_MINOR * 100 + IRRLICHT_VERSION_REVISION) > 010802
07:38 Zeno` >=
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07:46 celeron55 yeah, except that obviously 10000 instead of 100000 and 10802 instead of 010802
07:49 Zeno` oops, yes
07:49 Zeno` I just typed that to give a general idea though... not on my dev computer
07:52 Krock why not just add a new makro to convert that MAJOR MINOR REVISION mess into a single number?
07:52 Krock so that one could be used in the whole project
07:54 Zeno` it's probably worthwhile yes
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08:00 Zeno` Krock, certainly worthwhile because there are similar issues elsewhere in the code
08:01 Krock yes and those #if checks could be so much shorter with less effort
08:03 Zeno` it should probably be in cmake though
08:09 Zeno` #4302
08:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4302 -- Change method for checking Irrlicht version; fixes tooltip height bug by Zeno-
08:10 paramat nice
08:10 Zeno` I'm cooking dinner but I might look into the cmake thing after dinner
08:12 Krock testing #4303
08:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4303 -- Anticheat: Use the physics_override modifiers aswell by SmallJoker
08:15 Zeno` what's an item /msg Krock hi
08:15 Zeno` oops
08:16 Zeno` that didn't work out well
08:16 Krock lolwat
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08:32 Zeno` #4142 doesn't make sense
08:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4142 -- Item description bug
08:32 Zeno` from irrlicht changelog " IGUIStaticText::getTextHeight returns now the correct height for texts with newlines even WordWrap is not set."
08:32 Zeno` (for 1.8.2)
08:32 Zeno` but the rpgtest mod needs the /old/ code
08:36 Zeno` hmm
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08:55 OldCoder A world host has noted that 0.4.14 changes F10 to make console takes 100% of screen
08:55 OldCoder She greatly objects. Would it make sense to allow the percentage to be a preference?
08:56 OldCoder make console take *
08:56 OldCoder There are no performance issues involved
08:58 VanessaE tell her to press T instead.
08:58 OldCoder Is there a reason this could not be a preference?
08:58 VanessaE idk.  I objected as well.
08:58 Krock Yes, the regular chat window shows a minimized form of F10
08:59 VanessaE I suppose at the end, it's probably best this way
08:59 OldCoder Krock, right... a very short form
08:59 OldCoder Is there a reason the player could not be empowered
08:59 VanessaE since T or / will bring up the short console and you could use F10 for the large one
08:59 OldCoder to select other than the hardwired nmber?
08:59 OldCoder See question; would there be any reason
09:00 OldCoder Not to allow player to override?
09:00 Krock I think it should be possible to configure the shown lines in the T-chat windows instead of F10
09:00 Krock because F10 is like the full-chatter mode
09:00 OldCoder Krock, see question
09:00 OldCoder For any mode
09:00 OldCoder Where testing for a preference
09:00 OldCoder and implementing it
09:00 Krock so, two settings
09:00 OldCoder Does not slow things
09:00 OldCoder Possibly two preferences, yes
09:01 OldCoder For any mode where testing for a preference and implementing
09:01 OldCoder does not slow performance
09:01 OldCoder Would there be any reason to object to such a preference?
09:02 Krock I'd say that belongs into a new GitHub issue ^^
09:02 OldCoder Just garnering initial input
09:02 OldCoder Thank you
09:04 Zeno` I participated in that discussion as well
09:05 Zeno` to me it seems silly to have a 2560x1440 console heh
09:05 Zeno` and that assumes I'm not using all 3 monitors!
09:06 Krock you have a long chat history. that needs space :P
09:06 T4im some margin + a bit more padding wouldn't hurt it
09:07 T4im just to have the text a bit off the screen edges (which might make the fullscreen issue less of an issue)
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09:14 OldCoder So, let each player choose what works for him or her
09:14 * OldCoder will work up a pull request this Summer
09:14 OldCoder Default can be 100% (or maybe 98%) if that was consensus before
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10:15 paramat no setting needed for F10 because that is obviously intended to be fullscreen. if there's a setting it only needs to be for 'T'
10:16 paramat the whole screen going dark with F10 is actually helpful visually, makes the text easier to read
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10:19 paramat indeed a few columns of indent might be nice to bring text in from screen edge, but keep the screen dark all the way to the edge
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10:27 Zeno` I actually find long (non-wrapped) harder to read
10:27 Zeno` at least slower
10:41 T4im harder, but faster, apparently
10:41 T4im "Other studies […] continued to show that reading rates increased as characters per line increased. These same studies have reliably shown that users prefer shorter line lengths."
10:43 Zeno` maybe faster because they never get to the end of the line before reading the next =D
10:43 T4im well, I guess because you don't have to carriage return your eyes :P
10:43 T4im at the same time, it's probably easier to get "lost", I'd imagine
10:44 T4im or in a multi monitor setup, carriage returning your head, Zeno` ;)
10:44 Zeno` I dunno
10:44 Zeno` I don't read just a single word at once
10:45 Zeno` maybe I'm just weird but I read in "chunks" and I do get lost on long lines
10:45 T4im there must be some usability studies that can recommend a line lengths, I mean neither too short nor too long is nice
10:46 Zeno` it's not really related to the current issue though... line lengths are the same whether the console takes up 10% or 100% of the vertical space
10:46 T4im they are fixed width?
10:46 Zeno` they are however wide the console is
10:47 Zeno` I don't think they wrap do they?
10:47 T4im nvm, I overread the "vertical" in your sentence
10:47 Zeno` heh
10:47 Zeno` I think my IRC window fits about 80-120 characters across
10:48 Zeno` I could count them I guess :/
10:48 Zeno` 76-80
10:48 T4im you could also copy a text of the right width into a console and pipe it to "wc"
10:48 Zeno` exactly what I just did heh
10:49 Zeno` it's 78
10:49 Zeno` I wonder how that happened
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10:49 Zeno` I never explicitly set the line width, just adjusted window size and pane sizes until it looked "right"
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10:50 Zeno` I never explicitly set the line width, just adjusted window size and pane sizes until it looked "right"
10:52 Zeno` <T4im> nvm, I overread the "vertical" in your sentence       <--- What's your characters per line set to?
10:52 Zeno` :D
10:53 T4im 137 including names and timestamps
10:53 T4im but that constantly changes :P
10:53 Zeno` well, that should be ok
10:53 Zeno` I accept your characters per line
10:53 Zeno` lol
10:55 T4im it appears the whole faster vs acceptance idea seems to be widespread in usability recommendations
10:55 paramat yeah i prefer shorter lines too, easier to locate the next line to read
10:57 paramat most chat is short lines anyway
10:57 Zeno` I think paramat hit the nail on the head
10:58 Zeno` if I scan across a huge line of text my eye loses track of where the next line is when I get to the end of the line and they jump back to the left hand side
10:58 Zeno` T4im, so studies say longer lines are better?
10:59 paramat shorter is certainly optimum, 'faster' is not better
10:59 Zeno` for speed?
10:59 T4im ah, that explains the acceptance part, it's a trade off between carriage return amount and time
11:00 Zeno` interesting
11:05 T4im well, if you think of it, it's plausible, for the same text you have more CR with shorter lines, but also can aim faster (a CR should follow fitt's law here, which means distance decreases speed and size of the target increases it)
11:05 T4im but if you increase text size, you make the lines shorter again x)
11:07 Zeno` I just did my own study and concluded that short lines are faster AND easier to read
11:08 Zeno` will submit to Journal of Psychology once I write the paper
11:09 Zeno` I'll mention fitt's law to sound cool
11:10 T4im it's a fundamental thing to consider in ui's, imo
11:10 Zeno` will give me credibility with the journal's editors if a cite /something/ at least
11:10 T4im :D
11:10 * T4im feels mocked
11:10 Zeno` nah I was mocking myself really
11:11 Zeno` but I see my mistake and how you may have felt that. I apologise
11:11 T4im heh, no prob
11:12 T4im lets not force wrap text though :P I think that might mess with tabular printed data for example
11:12 Zeno` yeah
11:12 T4im which doesn't have the problem of long lines anway as much
11:13 Zeno` we could always use latex to process the console and present the console as a PDF anyway
11:13 T4im image replacement might actually be a cool thing
11:14 T4im "Hey, could you please stop placing [default:cobble] everywhere?"
11:15 Zeno` :-o
11:16 T4im might also help with a few language barrier issues then
11:17 T4im "no [default:cobble]! nein! nei! ne!"
11:17 T4im x)
11:20 Zeno` well, it does have some merit
11:20 Zeno` and would look cool for sure
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11:21 Calinou emoji in Minetest!
11:22 SloanOnLinux What?? :o
11:24 SloanOnLinux Calinou: Tell me more
11:24 Calinou no, they aren't here
11:25 Calinou but what Zeno` suggested is close to emoji
11:27 Zeno` T4im suggested it
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12:35 paramat nore any opinion on game#1002 ? One more -1 can close it.
12:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1002 -- Add sandstone wall to Walls mod by vlapsley
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13:58 Zeno` merging #4298
13:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4298 -- Fix typos by Snipie
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15:29 paramat will merge game#1173 game#1185 in a moment
15:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1173 -- Always return the leftover ItemStack for on_place and on_rightclick by t4im
15:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1185 -- Doors: Fix trapdoor crash on can_dig with nil-player by t4im
15:30 paramat merging
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15:40 paramat merged 1173 but that caused a conflict in 1185 T4im
15:45 T4im yea, let me quickly rebase it
15:47 T4im done
16:07 est31 If any of the devs want to review something: #4249 #4296
16:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4249 -- Add multithreading ability to mapblock mesh creation by ElementW
16:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4296 -- Builtin: Fix check for a player object in core.check_player_privs by t4im
16:07 est31 nore, sfan5 sofar Tesseract Zeno` ^
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17:09 paramat hmmmm #4249 might interest you
17:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4249 -- Add multithreading ability to mapblock mesh creation by ElementW
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18:38 paramat game#1187
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1187 -- Bones: New textures by paramat
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18:41 paramat ^ nore sofar
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18:59 Krock Could someone please be so nice and label #4303 with [@ Server / Client / Env.] and [Bugfix] ?
18:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4303 -- Anticheat: Use the physics_override modifiers aswell by SmallJoker
19:00 Krock Reviews are welcome too, for sure :P
19:08 paramat yeah
19:11 Krock Thanks :)
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19:18 rdococ ...Hiya.
19:23 rdococ I was messing around with the nodes_shader for whatever reason. But now I'm confused. When I set the blue return value to day + night, the blue shows up in artificial light sources.
19:23 rdococ I'm not exactly sure what these values mean, but I don't think that's meant to happen. Correct me if I'm wrong.
19:25 Krock well, our shaders expert is not here anymore. Not sure if anyone can help you
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19:28 rdococ "Light intensity is parsed as a fake SColor... where the Red means sun light, Green means moon light, Blue means light sources." from a post
19:29 rdococ However, underground where there are no caves, sunlight and moonlight must be zero, yes?
19:30 rdococ Now, if the return color, the color that I believe is the one actually used, has a blue value of color.b = day + night, then why would the torch light appear light blue?
19:30 rdococ Am I missing something here? I'm really confused.
19:31 rdococ (There is the chance that the lighting system has changed since Mon Apr 15, the day the post was made.)
19:31 VanessaE it wouldn't.  light sources are always hard-coded to appear yellowish
19:31 VanessaE it's been the bane of many modders for a while now :)
19:32 rdococ I'm messing around with the node shader. I wanted to make it appear more yellowish to give it an effect.
19:32 paramat i don't understand that code (yet)
19:33 rdococ Additionally, it looks like I made night look as bright as day.
19:33 rdococ But only the blue increases with moonlight.
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19:34 rdococ (in the code.)
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19:46 rdococ okay, so I've mapped the rgb values to the fake values - red means sunlight, green means "moonlight" and blue means "artificial light"
19:54 rdococ I've got it under control now. In my experience, the "red" means natural light and the "green" means artificial light. I use dayNightRatio to then distinguish day from night.
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19:59 rdococ huh...
19:59 rdococ apparently, red increases with artificial light too
20:00 rdococ but this hits the 1.0 limit when light from a torch combines with natural lighting. so I can't tell between torch light alone, and natural plus torch light
20:01 rdococ actually, no, there's a chance I still can
20:01 rdococ wait, no, there isnt
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20:14 rdococ but it looks cool
20:16 rdococ Hmm... do you think night time should be blue or purple?
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20:46 rdococ How are you meant to distinguish torch light in the day from torch light underground?!
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21:02 paramat deep blue. full moon light is scattered as in daytime to create blue sky
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21:18 rdococ k
21:19 rdococ I wish I could tell whether torch light is in daylight or if it's shadowed...
21:19 rdococ but I don't think I can
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21:55 rdococ ty
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