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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-06-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:27 Fixer paramat: do you remember why the hell torch looks THAT bad? not even sprite, but one plane :/
00:28 paramat calm down :) it's been that way for years, most never notice the flatness
00:28 paramat a sprite is one plane
00:28 paramat doesn't bother me at all, MT is unrealistic and simple
00:28 paramat plantlike is fine too
00:29 Fixer paramat: i know, it was that bad since 2011
00:29 paramat MT and voxel games are only possible due to visual simplicity
00:29 paramat bad is subjective
00:30 paramat torch just doesn't particularly need more than a single plane, that's why
00:30 Fixer paramat: problem is from a lot of angles torches are not seen at all, like this https://i.imgur.com/zZ0PGqh.png
00:30 paramat no, from one specific tiny angle they are invisible
00:30 Fixer in any room with 4 torches in corner, you will not see at least 1 due to this one plane texture
00:31 Fixer torches need second plane for sure
00:32 Fixer if there is a torch attached to a wall i look at, i will not see it most of the time
00:32 Fixer such kinds of problems
00:32 Fixer anyway i go sleep, very late, have fun
00:32 paramat in your screenshot you've carefully moved to the exact angle to mkae the torch disappear
00:33 paramat (make)
00:33 paramat 'not see it most of the time' you spend most of the time precisely positioned at the exact angle that makes it disappear? =S
00:35 paramat heh. maybe this is why you're so good at finding bugs ;)
00:35 * paramat renames Fixer to Reporter
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01:13 hmmmmm haha
01:13 hmmmmm so true
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01:25 hmmmmm sigh, another major oversight
01:25 hmmmmm the environment isn't available at script load time, so i have no way to access the mapgen settings even if the map exists
01:26 hmmmmm celeron55:  is there an actual reason why the environment is created after the mods load?
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04:19 paramat will merge games 1097 1108 1149 1152 in a moment
04:21 paramat merging, this will take a while
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04:39 paramat done. as usual had to fix awful commit messages
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06:23 celeron55 hmmmmm: i believe it just happens to be that way
06:24 celeron55 it was that way from the day the scripting interface got any environment-related functionality (i just checked)
06:24 celeron55 or, well
06:26 celeron55 the lua state has been passed as a parameter to ServerEnvironment right from the first commit, as it is today
06:26 celeron55 which kind of requires the lua state to be created before the environment
06:28 celeron55 not that the environment has ever done anything with it in its constructor though 8)
06:28 hmmmmm the lua state is only required by the environment in order to generate callbacks for things that happen in the environment, right?
06:29 celeron55 generally yes
06:29 hmmmmm doesn't Environment already hold onto an IGameDef at some point?  why not just use gamedef->getScriptInterface()
06:29 hmmmmm that would be more consistent
06:29 hmmmmm i might change this sometime because it would be beneficial to have access to the environment at script load time
06:29 celeron55 well, you know, gamedef wasn't a thing back then so it couldn't do it back then
06:31 hmmmmm i'm missing a lot of context on why these design decisions were made at the time, thanks.  for all i know there could be a hidden mine... test
06:33 celeron55 maybe i thought the environment could change while the scripts would stay loaded so they would have to cope with that anyway
06:34 celeron55 as of today, that absolutely never happens and probably would be impossible
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09:34 tenplus1 hi folks
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14:50 tenplus1 hi folks
14:51 tenplus1 pulls game#1085 game#1081 and game#965 changed with additions... ready for adding
14:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1085 -- Disabling TNT by tenplus1
14:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1081 -- Placing liquid in protected area fixed by tenplus1
14:52 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/965 -- Ability to Disable bones, code tidy. by tenplus1
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15:20 tenplus1 laters :)
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16:09 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/rWjiei4.png another nail in the render, i know it does not smooth nodeboxes... thats a point...
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16:46 hmmmm fixer, why not fix it?  :)
16:47 Krock fix it!
16:47 Krock but don't do it like M$ and "Fix it!" so that it just disables the whole feature
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16:54 Fixer hmmmm: need to learn basic programming, c++, rendering basics, with that much procrastinations it will take years
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17:02 hmmmm reporting bugs already well known is complaining, not reporting :)
17:03 hmmmm and certainly not fixing
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17:25 Fixer sorry for repeating about this again
17:29 Fixer hmmmm: sometimes it gets so annoying it is hard not to complain :/
17:32 Fixer but some people can live with it I guess
17:35 Fixer limits my options when building, avoiding bright materials helps
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19:07 hmmmm ffs
19:07 hmmmm why is "if (foobar) dothing();" on the same line like that so damn pervasive?
19:07 hmmmm isn't it absolutely clear that is BANNED?
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20:10 paramat Calinou you're being excessively negative, all open source projects have arguments. if you want MT to improve please work on it, it will be much appreciated, we are very understaffed
20:12 KaadmY paramat: maybe rejecting every PR because it's "too similar to MC", or "ruins the *feel*", or "might not work correctly 100% of the time" causes this sort of negative arguments?
20:16 paramat yes open source is difficult because you have to discuss and compromise, no excuse for lack of perspective
20:25 Calinou generally, projects that admit that they can't please everyone work better
20:25 Gael-de-Sailly paramat: I'm trying to rework the noise params of valleys mapgen
20:29 Gael-de-Sailly I'm trying a noise with a high lacunarity
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20:41 paramat how high?
20:42 paramat you understand lacunarity?
20:48 paramat as it rises above 2 general noise quality falls, it's best used when specifically needing large gaps between scales of detail
20:50 hmmmm hmmmmmm
20:50 hmmmm you can play around with different noise parameters using shadertoy
20:50 hmmmm get a feel for what the actual effect of each parameter is
20:51 hmmmm but i personally use my own little utility i made using tk
20:51 hmmmm gtk
20:52 Gael-de-Sailly lacunarity of 4
20:53 Gael-de-Sailly in fact I want to have rivers that have meanders and iregular riverbanks
20:54 Gael-de-Sailly so I need a noise with very small octaves
20:54 paramat i see
20:54 paramat you may need to tune persistence when adjusting lacunarity
20:55 paramat otherwise the small scale octaves have too large an amplitude
20:55 Gael-de-Sailly the side effect is that, if I use a noise with numerous octaves and high persistance, there are some huge marshes where the river makes loops
20:55 Gael-de-Sailly so I need to reduce medium-sized octaves to avoid that
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20:57 paramat for lacunarity 4, persistence 0.25 is equivalent to standard noise (i think)
20:58 Gael-de-Sailly that's what I see
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21:36 Gael-de-Sailly paramat: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=222970#p222970
21:37 Gael-de-Sailly good bye :)
21:37 paramat ok
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22:16 Fixer paramat: fun question for you, if you have time: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&t=13429
22:18 paramat ok
22:19 paramat some is 'blob' ore, most is 'scatter'
22:19 paramat but that's obvious, the code explains how it works
22:20 paramat blobs are spheres distorted by 3D noise
22:22 paramat scatter is randomly placed clusters
22:23 paramat each cluster is a mix of ore and unchanged nodes
22:23 paramat the blob ore spheres are solid ore
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22:32 Fixer paramat: mc has neat graphs explaining distribution, like this http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/t​ekkitlite/images/d/d0/VanillaOreDist.​jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130303004811
22:33 est31 it would be cool to have an automatic tool that generates this info automatically
22:41 * T4im wonders what they mean by world height 4->64
22:42 est31 its the depth probably
22:42 est31 minecraft is a very very shallow game compared to minetest :)
22:42 T4im ah
22:48 Fixer est31: i always wondered if ore distribution changes depending on depth or constant (across allowed depths)?
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22:48 est31 Fixer, I think it bases on constant
22:48 Fixer est31: there is not much difference between 1000 and 10000
22:48 est31 but thats really something the lua api does
22:49 T4im Fixer: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga​me/blob/master/mods/default/mapgen.lua
22:50 Fixer T4im: thanks
22:50 T4im you'll see sometimes 2 stages of distribution; there are other mapgens out there, that are a bit less predictable
22:51 T4im iron even 4 here
22:53 T4im est31: such a tool wouldn't be hard, the question is, would it actually help with something? :P
22:53 est31 idk, it would help fixer?
22:54 Fixer est31: it was just a curiousity, not much help, since ores are easy to mine anyway (except mese blocks)
22:57 T4im hmm are caves still generated by the cave generator? or has that moved to the ore/biome setup by now? (as in "air" as ore)
22:57 est31 still cave generator I think
23:01 paramat still cavegen
23:01 paramat but the new 'vein' ore can make 3D noise tunnels of air
23:17 hmmmm kinda disappointed nobody ever put a biome restriction on a super-rare ore
23:17 hmmmm like how in minecraft, emeralds only occur in extreme mountain biomes
23:17 Fixer never too late to do this
23:19 paramat could be done, perhaps we have been staying faithful to mgv6 depth-only distribution
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23:20 hmmmm you could use different ore setups for different mapgens
23:22 paramat yeah
23:26 sofar hmmmm: put rare ores under sea biomes? :D
23:28 paramat currently everything under y = -112 is a single biome called 'underground', to avoid occasional unwanted biome material
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