Time  Nick       Message
05:07 paramat    merging games 1153 1162
05:15 paramat    done
05:29 paramat    nore sfan5 Tesseract i have 3 game PRs ready, any reviews much appreciated game#1149 game#1152 game#1161
05:29 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1149 -- Default: New aspen tree schematics by paramat
05:29 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1152 -- Doors: Add dedicated sounds for glass doors by paramat
05:29 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1161 -- Default: Stone drops stone, cobble is crafted by paramat
09:40 nore       ~tell paramat since PilzAdam isn't very active lately, and sofar contributes a lot to _game, would you agree to make him game maintainer as well?
09:40 ShadowBot  nore: O.K.
09:40 nore       sfan5: ^
11:07 nore       Oh, and of course: sofar, do you want to be maintainer? (Because it is useless to ask the question if you don't want to)
12:46 sfan5      nore: i'd have no problem with sofar being game maintainer
13:01 nore       sfan5: ok, good :) Let's wait to know if he wants to be one, then
13:30 T4im       is that normal, that the osx build via travis randomly fails?
14:01 nore       T4im: it is a well-known, long-standing bug
14:01 nore       it is a problem with the threading unit tests
14:11 T4im       ah, ok
14:12 T4im       btw, who best to talk to regarding travis stuff anyway? I'd like to add CI-driven lua linting to _game
14:13 T4im       also related: game#1164
14:13 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1164 -- Variable and Value cleanup to prepare CI-Linting by t4im
14:15 T4im       that is, if there's interest for that
14:20 xunto      T4im: Hm. There is mess detectors for lua? Or you found all of it manually?
14:21 T4im       that stuff up there was found via static code analysis
14:26 T4im       I also wrote something nearly a year ago to find minetest-mod specific mess, if you're interested in testing your code: https://github.com/t4im/shakedown#smoketest that also works against _game, but that's somewhat harder to integrate with CI, since it directly runs in minetest (not tested it headless yet)
14:28 xunto      Hm. Interesting.
14:28 T4im       plus there has been zero interest in quality assurance back then for _game, let's hope that changed by now :)
14:32 T4im       before adding anything like that, the remaining issues would have to be fixed first, or people wouldn't take failing tests serious anyway
14:34 xunto      I was thinking about suite like this actually. And I like yours. Maybe I'll use it in my development :D
14:35 T4im       glad to hear :D
14:37 T4im       was kinda frustrating building that, and then have people just ignore it completely; in those 9 months the failed tests against _game alone only reduced from 56 to 52, still containing lots of crashes, that are even explained by the engine on how to reproduce/cause them
14:44 sfan5      T4im: you don't need to talk to anyone for travis
14:45 sfan5      just prepare a pull with the code
15:21 T4im       sfan5: I thought one needs to setup repos in the travis-ui first? or has that already been done for _game? anyway game#1165 there you go
15:21 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1165 -- Let Travis-CI automatically lint the lua code of the game. by t4im
15:22 sfan5      somebody with travis permissions needs to do that *after* the pull is merged
15:22 T4im       ah
16:59 sofar      nore: yeah, of course I'd be up for that
17:10 hmmmm      agh this is painful
17:11 hmmmm      whose bright idea was it to have fixed_map_seed for the global config file and seed for the map meta file
17:12 hmmmm      it's because i never imagined having to unify the two of them in this manner
17:25 nore       sofar: then I think it's probably ok, since sfan5 and I agree on this :)
17:25 nore       sfan5: ^
17:27 nore       ~tell paramat sfan5 and I agreed to make sofar a _game maintainer as well, so there will be now two active maintainers (sfan5 and I aren't very active now :/)
17:27 ShadowBot  nore: O.K.
18:29 hmmmm      i hope nobody minds if i start rambling again
18:29 hmmmm      so, the new interface for mapgen params deals with everything in strings
18:30 hmmmm      you want to set the water level to 5, you set "water_level" to "5"
18:30 hmmmm      this way there is no requirement for type information to be associated with particular fields, which means there doesn't need to be any management for the said fields
18:31 hmmmm      does anybody agree with this?
18:33 hmmmm      it seems to me like this is similar to what LuaSettings does, but it does have a single exception for booleans for whatever reason
18:34 hmmmm      another thing i'm having trouble on deciding is how to handle the difference between 'fixed_map_seed' as is found in minetest.conf, and 'seed' as found in map_meta.txt.  should they be unified?  if so, which version should be used?  a new version altogether, like mg_seed?  should I make each of the setting names aliases for eachother?
18:35 hmmmm      as a Lua modder, which version would you like to use?
18:58 nore       hmmmm: as modders, we still have get_worldseed, haven't we?
18:58 nore       I consider it to be the only reliable seed source
18:59 nore       so I'd say, do as your want, as long as get_worldseed continues to work
19:18 Calinou    https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1409
19:18 Calinou    can't we implement Opus audio and be done with it? :p
19:18 Calinou    Opus @ 64 Kb/s should sound good and be very lightweight
19:21 Fixer      midi is crap, use mod :trollface:
19:22 Calinou    prboom-plus's music is horrible on Linux here :|
19:22 Calinou    the Doom music sounds like it's being played by a 12 year old in flute class
19:31 MillersMan For those that are interested: I've updated the canyon mapgen: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=14380
19:31 MillersMan It is now based on the current trunk and got a few improvements
19:31 Fixer      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NvXLaokV7A \m/
19:31 Fixer      use mod/xm/s3m/it
19:34 Fixer      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQBBNpq7DBE (xm)
19:38 Fixer      or even AHX
19:38 Fixer      it gives sid like music
19:51 Fixer      MillersMan: looks nice
19:55 tenplus1   Hi folks
19:56 tenplus1   to any devs listening, could you please check out mt-game-pulls #1108, #1102, #1101, #1097, #1085, #1081, #669 and especially #965 (disable bones)
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1108 -- /home/megaf/minetest/src/inventory.cpp:624: ItemStack& InventoryList::getItem(irr::u32): Assertion 'i < m_size' failed.
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1102 -- Fix win32 reading semaphore count not working (broke all queues) by sapier
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1101 -- 0.4.9-36-g574ed6a Minetest Client /mainmenu.lua:562: in function 'handle_multiplayer_buttons'
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1097 -- /home/megaf/minetest/src/connection.cpp:1164: virtual void* con::ConnectionSendThread::Thread(): Assertion '0' failed.
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1085 -- Serverlist is broken as of b031355
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1081 -- Add option to link to OpenGL ES by sfan5
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/669 -- Lua HUD: bigger textures are at the same scale
19:56 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/965 -- Portability fixes for OpenBSD (and possibly NetBSD and others). by Warr1024
19:57 rubenwardy use game#1108 to link to game PRs
19:57 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1108 -- added new locked chest and mese crystal craft by tenplus1
19:57 tenplus1   much :))) appreciated
19:57 Fixer      eh, wrong links
19:58 tenplus1   yup... I specifically said mt-game but shadowbot cant read
20:04 T4im       it's game#id then
20:05 tenplus1   to any devs listening, could you please check out pulls game#1108, game#1102, game#1101, game#1097, game#1085, game#1081, game#669 and especially game#965 (disable bones)
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1108 -- added new locked chest and mese crystal craft by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1102 -- Read bed spawns once on load by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1101 -- save respawn entering bed, remove constant read_spawns by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1097 -- added creative.formspec_add info by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1085 -- Disabling TNT by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1081 -- Placing liquid in protected area fixed by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/669 -- Tidy sethome code, add global functions, round coords to 1 decimal by tenplus1
20:05 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/965 -- Ability to Disable bones, code tidy. by tenplus1
20:06 T4im       tenplus1: why didn't you put 1101 and 1102 into the same pr?
20:06 tenplus1   cause I dont use git console, only website and dunno how to merge them on site
20:07 Fixer      MillersMan: how is water reflow pr going?
20:16 tenplus1   nite all
20:18 est31      hi T4im how are you doing
20:19 T4im       hey est31 :) long time no see, fine and yourself? :D
20:19 est31      fine too
20:19 T4im       thanks for the quick review you did the other day, sorry for forcepushing over it; but your mentioned issues were addressed
20:20 T4im       the build fail confused me that moment, but heard earlier there seem to be threading issues
20:25 MillersMan Fixer: currently not working on it, i have to rethink the details and than start over the implementation, it's a little bit more complicated than originally thought
20:26 MillersMan but it is still on my list
20:41 paramat    sfan5 any opinion on game#1161 to bring that to a resolution?
20:41 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1161 -- Default: Stone drops stone, cobble is crafted by paramat
20:41 sfan5      >stone drops stone
20:41 sfan5      wat
20:41 sfan5      never!
20:41 paramat    heh ok
20:41 Fritigern  It it April 1st again already?
20:41 paramat    will close
20:44 paramat    nore please could you review game#1152 ?
20:44 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1152 -- Doors: Add dedicated sounds for glass doors by paramat
20:44 paramat    +1 for sofar as mtgame dev
20:45 nore       paramat: sorry, already in bed, can't listen
20:45 nore       Good night btw
20:49 paramat    no problem it has +2
21:04 paramat    how about making that PR affect desert stone only, since that dropped itself for years?
21:29 VanessaE   paramat: leave it like it is.
21:29 VanessaE   *stone -> *cobble just makes sense.
21:29 VanessaE   or certainly as much sense as stone_with_* -> *_lump
21:30 paramat    yes, but playability over realism
21:31 VanessaE   I don't think it negatively affects playability
21:31 VanessaE   besides, you'd be taking away one use of the furnaces.
21:31 paramat    it's now much more difficult to get desert stone
21:32 VanessaE   dig -> cook is difficult?
21:32 paramat    yeah, needs fuel and time
21:32 VanessaE   meh
21:32 VanessaE   leave it be.
21:33 paramat    for nice builds, it's harder to build up a large amount of stone bricks or blocks
21:35 paramat    anyway, on to other stuff :)
21:56 VanessaE   make those lazy-ass users WORK for their stuff :)
23:13 paramat    ~tell tenplus1 for games 669 and 1081 we're waiting for you to make the requested improvements
23:13 ShadowBot  paramat: O.K.
23:17 paramat    hmmmmm i think 'fixed map seed' and 'seed' should be unifed. 'fixed map seed' is afaik only used to choose a particular seed value for a new world, so is just a way to set 'seed'
23:19 paramat    i wouldn't bother with messy aliasing
23:23 paramat    hmmmmm btw i've made posts in the forum about how 'trees' and 'flat' flags have moved into 'mgv6_spflags', and have advised those who would be affected by the removal of those flags from 'mg flags' to prepare. so i think that can be cleaned up at 0.4.15
23:28 hmmmmm     i thought about it a little more and i don't think i actually need to handle the special fixed_map_seed at all
23:29 hmmmmm     as long as modders use 'seed' when setting mapgen settings and 'fixed_map_seed' when setting the global config it should be okay
23:29 hmmmmm     since the latter stays in its own Settings object instead of getting merged into a new one
23:30 hmmmmm     so it'd compare true against g_settings and silently switch over to fixed_map_seed when getting that parameter
23:31 hmmmmm     the only issue is that if the mod hasn't explicitly set a value, and the map_meta.txt doesn't exist yet, get_mapgen_setting() won't fall back to the global config setting value
23:32 hmmmmm     but that doesn't even matter either since in practice map_meta.txt will always exist now that the global config settings are saved when a new world is being initialized
23:37 hmmmmm     actually that's going to be a problem
23:40 paramat    i feel it's messy to keep both, good chance to unify them
23:41 hmmmmm     for as much chat as we generate about reverse compatibility with the lua API, how effective is it in practice?
23:41 hmmmmm     how often do modders find themselves having to apply workarounds for specific broken versions of minetest?
23:50 paramat    workarounds are needed sometimes but the effort for reverse compatibility minimises those and is much appreciated. but also, should not block a really good change
23:52 hmmmmm     if i were given carte blanc right now, i'd remove on_mapgen_init, get/set_mapgen_params, get/set_noiseparams, change fixed_map_seed to mg_seed, and add mg_ prefixes to the rest of the mapgen settings
23:52 hmmmmm     actually nevermind the last part; i'd use a settings group for mapgen settings instead
23:52 paramat    with your current big changes i would consider a compat break acceptable if unavoidable
23:52 hmmmmm     they're big internal changes
23:53 hmmmmm     anyway i just thought of a reason why it won't work unless mods forcibly override map_meta.txt all the time
23:53 hmmmmm     because creating a new world populates a map_meta.txt immediately
23:54 hmmmmm     the whole point was to have several levels of precedence; if a map_meta.txt hasn't been created yet (that is, new world) it would be able to nudge the mapgen type to what it wants
23:54 hmmmmm     and so on and so forth with seed and other parameters
23:57 hmmmmm     https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/224e101ef37dcfe7fd8bdef0e6ca002164081cf3#diff-a3f773aebe1ab61ac758488712d8dd8dR160