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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-05-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Fixer MillersMan, by changing max amount of loaded blocks i guess?
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00:00 Fixer MillersMan, maybe "client_mapblock_limit = 5000", try lowering it down, it is "Maximum number of mapblocks for client to be kept in memory" ?
00:01 Fixer MillersMan, you can search in minetest.conf.example if not sure
00:02 MillersMan Does this also limit the server in singleplayer?
00:02 Fixer MillersMan, don't know :) not a dev
00:03 Fixer MillersMan, if not sure, run it from Server tab
00:06 MillersMan I'll try you test map, am I right that all water in the air is flowing and no source nodes?
00:06 Fixer MillersMan, yeah, that is the worst kind
00:07 Fixer MillersMan, you can found more of the stuff
00:07 Fixer MillersMan, simplest case is probably this hanging one https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/3686677​/12376394/bf4e1572-bce9-11e5-903e-733d672d504f.png
00:08 Fixer source above is present and water_flowing getting stuck some where below
00:08 Fixer but sometimes it gets more ugly and you get flying water_flowing in air :)
00:09 Fixer that map has all kinds of strange water bugs
00:09 Fixer thats why i saved it
00:11 Fixer it will lag a lot because of liquids going through empty nonsaved map chunks but thats ok :) (don't do performance testing on it! it has empty space below so huge amounts of water can start flowing through some cracks or empty chunks)
00:11 Fixer have fun and good night
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00:51 hmmmm paramat: what I ended up doing was take the generateBiome change out of that commit completely
00:52 hmmmm it's harder work but it's worth it in the end imho because if there's a problem it's simpler to trace down and it's better organized too
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01:57 ShadowNinja nore: I already have a multithreaded C++ MC2MT converter working.  It does about 8900 16x16x16 blocks in 14 sec on my laptop.
01:58 ShadowNinja Most of the time is spent in ZLib compression, so it's not going to get much better than that.
01:59 Void7 joined #minetest-dev
02:02 ShadowNinja I also fixed some bugs in your converter (some incorrect conversion file entries mostly I think), added chest inventory conversion, added a bunch of other nodes, and started adding MC inv items (not yet done with all of the conversions).
02:03 ShadowNinja I also fixed some bugs in your converter (some incorrect conversion file entries mostly I think), added chest inventory conversion, added a bunch of other nodes, and started adding MC inv items (not yet done with all of the conversions).
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02:33 sofar ShadowNinja: damn, time to merge my improvements to mcimport then
02:33 sofar I was starting on very non-trivial things like itemframes
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02:49 gregorycu Hello all
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03:17 Wayward_One Two Android users have encountered problems with my recent apk, detailed here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=42&t=12169&p=215809&sid=e​779a5875127aafd9e6c1b228ead02c2#p215793. I personally test each build before I upload them, so I have no idea what could be wrong
03:19 gregorycu hmmmm is going to enjoy that bug report
03:20 gregorycu "ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: SQLite3 database error"
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03:50 diemartin nothing else?
03:58 Zeno` is anyone merging #4056?
03:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4056 -- Mainmenu: Remove space under mod list by Rui914
03:58 Zeno` If not I'll do it in 10 minutes or so
03:59 nore ShadowNinja: oh, interesting, didn't know that
03:59 * nore looks
03:59 gregorycu diemartin: ?
04:00 Zeno` that's his name
04:00 Zeno` literally
04:00 gregorycu <diemartin> nothing else?
04:02 nore ShadowNinja: do you have a repo with it though? I can find the nbt reader, but not the cpp mcimport
04:02 diemartin gregorycu, your error. in any case, please ignore
04:03 gregorycu I was quoting from what Wayward posted
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04:34 gregorycu sofar, give me sheep bro
04:36 sofar hop over an island, they have plenty
04:37 gregorycu Well played
04:38 gregorycu Where are you from sofar?
04:38 gregorycu By the way, my pathfinder now has parity with the existing pathfinder, except it has no bugs
04:39 sofar the answer to that question depends on a timescale
04:39 gregorycu Check this out: http://www.gregorycurrie.com/hooray.jpg
04:39 gregorycu That's with a jump height of 2
04:40 sofar just make a tester stick
04:40 gregorycu I have two tester blocks
04:40 gregorycu Which I move about
04:41 gregorycu But they don't bleat
04:41 sofar sorry, I'm really not going to publish it until I think it's ready for that
04:42 sofar I want to get everything right, no shortcuts, no bad models, no mspaint textures, no bad sounds, no missing gameplay components, etc.
04:43 gregorycu I know, I'm just teasing :)
04:43 gregorycu That's why I'm working on a kickarse pathfinder for you
04:43 gregorycu What pathfinder options do you need
04:43 gregorycu At the moment I have max drop / max jump
04:44 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4049
04:44 gregorycu Which of those do you need?
04:45 gregorycu Soon, I mean
04:45 sofar swimming across surfaces
04:45 sofar and, obviously, walking through grass plants needs to work
04:45 gregorycu So, with swimming, I'm thinking there are three types
04:45 gregorycu Swimming above the water, like a boat
04:46 gregorycu Swimming below the water, like a fish
04:46 gregorycu Swimming "at the surface" like an animal
04:46 gregorycu A non-fish animal :)
04:46 sofar ah, yes
04:46 nore oh, btw, is there an option for needed height?
04:46 sofar although two of those are very similar
04:46 gregorycu nore: No, there isn't, and you're right, there needs to be one
04:46 sofar ohh yes, needed height is good
04:46 gregorycu sofar: You're talking about the first two
04:47 gregorycu Right?
04:47 sofar needed size to be complete
04:47 sofar gregorycu: add a note?
04:47 sofar I'll add it
04:47 gregorycu sofar: With regards to surface and above water
04:48 sofar "path may swim under the surface (against the bottom) of the liquid"
04:48 gregorycu For me, under the surface means inside a block that doesn't have air above it
04:48 gregorycu Can be dirt, ice, etc.
04:48 gregorycu Maybe not air, maybe walkable
04:49 sofar sure
04:49 gregorycu Are you happy with 3 types of swimming?
04:50 sofar bottom dwellers can just use the normal surface of nodes
04:50 sofar so yeah, I think that's everything
04:52 gregorycu The hardest thing about all of this is to make it performant
04:54 gregorycu lol
04:54 gregorycu What if the liquid is lava
04:55 sofar damage will kill entities inside of them if needed
04:55 sofar otherwise, it's a liquid
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04:56 nore sofar: yes, but then, the pathfinder should say to avoid the lava
04:57 sofar sure, assign a high cost to lava
04:57 sofar gregorycu: #define performant
04:57 nore Oh, there would be per-liquid costs?
04:57 sofar gregorycu: let me give you a request based on what I think would be normal usage:
04:58 sofar gregorycu: 100 mobs requesting 1 path every 1 second
04:58 gregorycu_ So, it must be able to handle 100 tps
04:58 sofar yup
04:58 hmmmm why are mobs requesting paths so often
04:58 sofar I'd be happy with that already
04:58 sofar hmmmm: edge case
04:59 sofar my sheep are requesting paths every 20-30 seconds right now
04:59 gregorycu With regards to lava
04:59 sofar but, if they're in pursuit or fleeing, they may recalculate more often
04:59 gregorycu What do you mean, associate a high cost with it?
04:59 gregorycu Nothing in the pathfinder understands what lava is
05:01 nore gregorycu: that was the why of my per-liquid costs question
05:01 gregorycu Yep, it was a good question (I got DCed so I'm catching up)
05:04 gregorycu How does the pathfinder help mobs avoid lava while allowing them to go through water
05:06 kahrl let the mob specify a parameter to the pathfinder like 'avoid = {"group:hot"}'?
05:06 sofar assign a higher cost to liquids than air nodes
05:07 sofar assign a higher cost to lava than to other liquids
05:07 sofar air cost = 1
05:07 sofar water cost = 5
05:07 sofar lava cost = 100
05:07 gregorycu Right
05:07 gregorycu Well, I like kahrl's suggestion
05:07 gregorycu This means the pathfinder needs to understand the different liquid types
05:08 sofar I'd make a standard cost matrix first
05:08 kahrl yeah, ideally costs can be different for each mob
05:08 kahrl if someone wants to make a lava monster
05:08 sofar then allow specific custom costs to be passed
05:08 gregorycu You could also associate costs with groups
05:09 gregorycu group: hot; cost: 100
05:09 sofar maybe define a few standard cost sets (cost_set_water) (cost_set_surface) (cost_set_flying)
05:09 gregorycu But this question isn't really about costs
05:09 gregorycu It's about categorisation
05:10 gregorycu In fact, at the moment, everything is boolean
05:10 gregorycu Which means either a cost of 0, or a cost of infinity
05:10 gregorycu Or more than infinity
05:45 gregorycu There is another type of swimming
05:45 gregorycu Wading
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06:32 Zeno` Can anyone look at this please: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/src/threading/event.cpp#L63  ?
06:32 Zeno` And explain the logic behind it (specifically, what is 'notified' meant to be initialised to when the object is created...)
06:34 gregorycu false
06:35 Zeno` yeah, so I am not wrong if I add code to actually initialise it to false?
06:35 gregorycu err...
06:36 gregorycu Well
06:36 Zeno` in the constructor I mean
06:36 gregorycu Yeah
06:36 Zeno` thanks. Just making sure :)
06:48 Zeno` #4063
06:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4063 -- Fix use of uninitialised variable in class Event by Zeno-
06:54 hmmmm aren't objects initialized with the "default value"?
06:54 hmmmm i.e. zero fill for primitives
06:55 Zeno` no
06:55 Zeno` not last I checked the standard anyway
06:56 Zeno` valgrind was complaining anyway (uninitalised)
06:57 hmmmm hmm looks like what i mentioned only applies to new T()
06:58 hmmmm so-called value initialization
06:58 gregorycu Yeah, value initialzation
06:59 gregorycu Unless it's static
07:04 Zeno` I think I can *probably* remove the constructor for C++11 and it would be fine
07:05 Zeno` But not for pre-c++11
07:05 hmmmm subtle
07:05 Zeno` yeah, too subtle for my liking :(
07:05 hmmmm absurd
07:05 hmmmm mr. bjarne should think hard about what he's done
07:06 * Zeno` waits for an explanation mark
07:06 Zeno` explanation lol
07:06 Zeno` exclamation!
07:06 hmmmm what does an explanation mark look like
07:06 Zeno` it looks like @&$*^@$^&@*(
07:06 hmmmm that doesn't explain very much though
07:06 Zeno` lol
07:07 hmmmm for people like me who learns languages from using them/seeing them, such incredibly subtle things are bad
07:07 hmmmm i never read a book on C++ so idfk about the 50 types of initializations and every circumstance they apply in, under which versions
07:10 Zeno` well, that's what I'm saying. I'm not sure having people needing to refer to the Standard (and more than one version of it in this case) for something as simple as this is a good idea
07:11 Zeno` will merge in a few minutes if there are no objections
07:11 Zeno` look, another request for a C++ api
07:12 gregorycu *shrug*
07:13 gregorycu Mark as non-trivial
07:13 gregorycu The current Lua pathfinding API is this:  find_path(pos1, pos2, searchdistance, max_jump, max_drop, algorithm)
07:13 Zeno` is #4042 ready?
07:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4042 -- Use ReplaceFile to rename files on Windows (not rename) by gregorycu
07:13 gregorycu Are we able to overload it to be find_path(pos1, pos2, searchdistance, options) ?
07:14 gregorycu Yes, it's ready
07:14 gregorycu bb in 30 min
07:18 Zeno` hmmmm, I'll merge 4042 at the same time as 4063?
07:20 hmmmm would be nice if 4042 had the line wrapped onto the next
07:20 hmmmm could you do that before merging?
07:20 Zeno` line 711?
07:21 hmmmm yes
07:21 hmmmm also that loop looks a little odd
07:21 Zeno` yeah, I'll wrap it. Loop looks ok to me...
07:21 hmmmm !rename_success doesn't need to be a condition
07:21 Zeno` true
07:22 Zeno` I'll do that when merging as well
07:24 Zeno` grrr. I'll fix "warning: 1 line adds whitespace errors." also >:-|
07:54 Zeno` whoa. I got curl to work for the server list
07:55 Zeno` I had to disable ipv6 in minetest settings
07:56 Zeno` which is... odd
08:05 nore Zeno`: maybe because the serverlist isn't ipv6?
08:06 Zeno` yeah, but why do I, as a player, have to disable ipv6 which is enabled by default?
08:06 nore A bug...
08:06 Zeno` eek
08:07 nore So that should be fixed
08:07 nore Perhaps you should file an issue
08:07 nore I'm wondering why I don't get the problem though
08:08 Zeno` I'm not sure
08:08 Zeno` I'll look into it more after dinner
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08:08 nore Well, I never enabled ipv6, but never disabled it either
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08:09 nore Have a nice dinner then :)
08:09 gregorycu Thanks Zeno
08:09 gregorycu So yeah, my find_path question above
08:09 gregorycu Anyone have opinions?
08:10 nore gregorycu: this overloading should be possible
08:10 gregorycu Should we do it?
08:11 nore I think so
08:11 nore It goes in the line of a consistent and easy to extend API
08:20 gregorycu The lua c api is annoying me
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08:23 Zeno` I think it's some of the best code in minetest
08:23 paramat nore do you +1 #4037 ? perhaps it can be merged
08:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4037 -- Pathfinder cleanup by est31
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08:25 nore paramat: have there been changes since yesterday evening?
08:25 paramat kahrl #4048 ?
08:25 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4048 -- FileSelectMenu: Fix formspec parsing broken by Irrlicht file-chooser by kilbith
08:26 paramat nore no, est was waiting for +1
08:26 nore paramat: I gave my +1 yesterday
08:26 paramat ok thought so
08:26 nore But maybe you already left
08:26 nore 4048 is good too
08:27 paramat 4037 has only been rebased and updated with hmmmm's request
08:30 millersman i've added a fix for the reflow problem #4061
08:30 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4061 -- Add loaded blocks to transforming_liquid-queue similar to updateLiquid by MillersMan
08:30 paramat good looks like freeze tonight then
08:30 paramat ok mm will look later
08:33 Zeno` yes.. PLEASE freeze :)
08:34 gregorycu freeze tonight?
08:34 gregorycu What do you mean freeze?
08:34 Zeno` feature freeze ready for release
08:34 gregorycu Looks like release will be ready tonight :)
08:34 Zeno` haha
08:34 Zeno` yeah, let's release while everyone is away!
08:34 gregorycu Now you get it
08:34 nore Finally! :)
08:34 Zeno` we only need two approvals right?
08:34 Zeno` hehe
08:35 paramat freeze = 2 weeks of testing without adding new features
08:35 Zeno` and then 6 weeks of bug fixing after release :-D
08:35 jin_xi most mt bugs so old they're features now, so fixes not allowed
08:36 Zeno` "oh my god, it's full of features" is now part of my sig (thanks jin_xi)
08:36 paramat for game i'll rereview game#1061 then merge it later
08:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1061 -- TNT: Combine adjacent TNT into the explosion by sofar
08:37 Zeno` I tested that TNT changed... it's fun
08:37 Zeno` I couldn't *not* test it after watching sofar's video :)
08:38 paramat nore this evening i will be submitting a PR to make grass_side textures hang a little lower: halfway down
08:38 paramat i'll prepare screenshots later
08:38 nore paramat: ok, will review
08:39 paramat i'd prefer 3/4 covered but thought halfway would be a compromise to keep most happy
09:02 gregorycu I want to add freestanding begin and end
09:02 gregorycu Should I, if so where?
09:04 nore gregorycu: what do you mean?
09:05 gregorycu http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/iterator/begin/
09:05 gregorycu (2)
09:05 gregorycu I want to add that when compiled in non-C++11 mode
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09:07 nore Hm, to what do you want to add that?
09:08 gregorycu It's a freestanding function
09:08 nore Ah, ok
09:08 gregorycu Works with all arrays
09:09 gregorycu (Works with arrays that are not raw pointers, that is)
09:09 nore I guess, in util/something
09:09 nore Maybe misc.h if there isn't a better place
09:11 gregorycu for(name_to_setter* iter = begin(bool_setters); iter != end(bool_setters); ++iter) {
09:11 gregorycu To iterate through an array (as you would a std container)
09:13 nore Yeah
09:13 gregorycu Actually, maybe I won't
09:14 gregorycu It will clash with the C++11 feature
09:14 gregorycu And I'm not sure we can avoid that easily
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09:42 nore gregorycu: Well, I'd say it is good to have, but you should see that with the other devs at well
09:42 gregorycu I won't touch it, I have other battles to fight :)
09:42 nore And to avoid the clash, just put it in an #ifndef
09:43 gregorycu lol
09:44 gregorycu That assumes include order
09:51 nore gregorycu: no, an #ifndef __CPLUSPLUS11 (or whatever the name is)
09:53 MillersMan found another flow bug: http://imgur.com/aJNLdLC
09:53 MillersMan this affects both mapgen and reflow
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10:10 Zeno` The column of water stays like that?
10:12 gregorycu nore: But in the user code, what do you include?
10:12 gregorycu misc.h would have to include <array>
10:17 nore Ah
10:18 nore Hm, don't know then
10:18 gregorycu All good
10:18 gregorycu We can revisit this later :)
10:19 nore MillersMan: are these source or flowing?
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10:57 MillersMan Zeno, nore: They are source blocks in this case, it only occurs for blocks added by mapgen or after loading
10:57 MillersMan I've created a fix for them: #4065, note that it has to be applied to #4061 also when both are merged
10:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4065 -- Fix for flow issues in Mapgen::updateLiquid by MillersMan
10:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4061 -- Add loaded blocks to transforming_liquid-queue similar to updateLiquid by MillersMan
11:01 MillersMan s/or after loading/or at loading/
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11:35 nore ~tell Fixer maybe this light problem is related to #2823
11:35 ShadowBot nore: O.K.
11:36 Icedream joined #minetest-dev
11:39 gregorycu I think I'll do a video demo of the pathfinding
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12:01 gregorycu https://youtu.be/8vFKXovblCw
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12:03 gregorycu It's alright to be amazed
12:08 MillersMan gregorycu: Looks nice. Does the pathfinding have weightings for different actions. Like giving the dog the preference to walk around a small puddle but walk under water through a long river?
12:09 gregorycu Not yet
12:09 gregorycu That's planned though
12:10 nore gregorycu: woah
12:12 gregorycu I want to add underwater swimming and wading through water next
12:12 gregorycu (wading is only suitable for animals more than 1 high)
12:13 gregorycu Then after that, flying
12:13 gregorycu And then diagonal movement
12:13 gregorycu Then I'll think about adding weighting
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12:57 gregorycu Off off to watch history being made
12:57 gregorycu I'm off *
12:58 Krock watching your neighbour, mowning the lawn?
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13:17 kahrl paramat: I can't really approve #4048 since I made that patch (even though kilbith submitted it)
13:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4048 -- FileSelectMenu: Fix formspec parsing broken by Irrlicht file-chooser by kilbith
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13:24 PilzAdam kahrl, approving your own PRs is allowed
13:25 Zeno` kahrl, it's one line. Just merge it without even using the PR :/
13:26 Zeno` kilbith didn't write it and the PR is not necessary
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13:28 kahrl Zeno`, I'm not sure it is that trivial, see hmmmm's comment in #4044
13:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4044 -- In-Game Font switching mess up the GUI
13:29 kahrl PilzAdam: is it? I wasn't sure about the outcome of that recent discussion
13:29 Zeno` I'm aware of hmmmm's comment but the thing is either 4048 has to be closed as not a solution or the small change merged as a possible fix
13:30 kahrl sure
13:30 kahrl but I wanted to give it the chance to generate more feedback first
13:30 Zeno` I can't see how it would cause any harm even if it doesn't actually fix the issue...
13:31 kahrl idk, locales are weird, maybe it causes something completely unrelated to break on a specific OS
13:32 kahrl but that sounds far fetched for LC_NUMERIC, I admit
13:32 kahrl (when set to "C")
13:33 kahrl thing is, Irrlicht changes all the locale categories, not just LC_NUMERIC, so the whole combination of them might end up broken
13:34 Zeno` This bug... after it manifests, is it "fixed" after restarting minetest or does it persist?
13:34 kahrl restarting fixes it
13:34 Zeno` I don't see how it's a blocker then. Perhaps it can wait
13:36 kahrl I wouldn't call it a blocker either
13:36 kahrl all that said, my fix can only break things in the case where someone has opened a file select menu
13:36 kahrl which is already broken
13:37 kahrl (to the extent that restarting is required)
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13:37 kahrl so I don't thing the fix can make anything worse
13:37 kahrl think*
13:38 kahrl I think I'll just merge it in 30 minutes then
13:38 Zeno` Which was my first thought also
13:38 Zeno` yeah, just do it :) +1
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16:00 Zeno` hi hmmmm
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16:14 hmmmm hello
16:26 ShadowNinja nore: No repo yet.  Another thing I fixed is the block flags, the generated flag is actually stored inverted, and the lighting expired flag doesn't work properly.  My converter has to fix the lighting of nodebox nodes like stairs and slabs, but other than that you can just use the MC lighting.  chunksize=1 is also necessary to prevent maiden griding from mod with mapgen like moretrees.
16:27 ShadowNinja *mapgen greifing.  Thanks, autocorrect.
16:27 hmmmm and here i was thinking that maiden gridding is a new term i haven't heard of yet
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16:48 Zeno` Gosh I hope we're frozen when I wake up
16:49 Zeno` We've been in "semi-freeze" since I've been back lol
16:49 hmmmm yeah this is getting ridic.
16:50 Zeno` it is
16:50 hmmmm then again i'm not the greatest at release management either D:
16:50 Zeno` things keep getting added to the milestones and freeze delayed
16:50 hmmmm maybe somebody should be designated for the role instead of passing it around every couple of versions
16:50 Zeno` let's just put it in liquid nitrogen hehehe
16:51 Zeno` well, it *is* a juggling act, I agree
16:51 Zeno` but... semi-freeze for months on end?
16:52 hmmmm alright i'm gonna make an executive decision
16:52 hmmmm we'll be in feature freeze until everybody decides on which blockers are really blockers or not
16:53 hmmmm and then immediately code freeze for a week or two
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17:07 Fixer wait what? feature freeze is not release, who said there will be release? is not it is bug fix part now for some weeks? just to be sure
17:08 Fixer nevermind
17:08 Zeno` Fixer, feature freeze hasn't even ... hehhe ok
17:09 Fixer could you guyz look at that water reflow fixes? that could be nice for mt, i will play with it today too I guess
17:09 Zeno` the liquid reflow?
17:09 Fixer yeah
17:09 Zeno` yeah I think it looks great but I should not be in this release
17:09 hmmmm ?
17:09 hmmmm what are you guys talking about
17:10 Zeno` secret stuff
17:10 Fixer #4061 and #4065
17:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4061 -- Add loaded blocks to transforming_liquid-queue similar to updateLiquid by MillersMan
17:10 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4065 -- Fix for flow issues in Mapgen::updateLiquid by MillersMan
17:10 hmmmm oh..
17:10 hmmmm no no no no...
17:10 Zeno` yeah, ok, secret's out
17:10 hmmmm we already discussed this, that's not a valid fix
17:10 Fixer oh
17:11 Zeno` it shouldn't even be discussed now :P
17:11 Zeno` it's promising though
17:12 Zeno` hmmmm, why is it not valid?
17:12 Fixer i missed discussion on irc, have not noticed in logs
17:12 Zeno` I missed it also
17:12 hmmmm performance issues
17:12 Zeno` but I don't really want to discuss it before this release happens
17:12 hmmmm the liquid queue is being filled up with thousands of nodes on load time
17:13 Zeno` it might be better than "frozen" liquids though :/
17:13 Zeno` that queue is infinite anyway
17:13 Zeno` (effectively infinite)
17:13 hmmmm it's an issue of priority
17:14 hmmmm our priority is basically having the game as smoothly running as possible
17:14 hmmmm frozen liquids are an issue, but nowhere nearly as big of an issue as a chronically lagging liquid queue
17:14 Zeno` It's pretty horrible to walk into a region where lava is pooling around the bottom of a block
17:14 Zeno` or water, or whatever
17:15 hmmmm didn't paramat do something to address this?
17:15 Zeno` well if he did I can't see it fixed
17:15 hmmmm not liquid reflowing exactly, but stopping it from pooling at least
17:16 Zeno` possibly, I'd have to check again
17:16 paramat joined #minetest-dev
17:16 paramat yeah i stopped liquids spreading out if they hit ignore
17:16 Zeno` but that doesn't fix the entire "issue"
17:16 Zeno` although it's a great improvement
17:16 paramat correct
17:17 paramat now a water column will just stop, looks much tidier
17:18 paramat #3581
17:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3581 -- Liquids: Prevent liquid spreading on ignore by paramat
17:19 Zeno` in real life lava and water (as two examples) don't flow down forever anyway
17:19 Zeno` lava cools and water gets absorbed
17:20 Zeno` but I'm not even going to think about this until after release :)
17:21 Zeno` paramat, so, are we ready for freeze?
17:22 paramat i'm catching up, reading logs, been out all day ..
17:23 Zeno` who gave you permission to go out?
17:23 Zeno` You need two approvals to go out
17:24 hmmmm hmm
17:24 hmmmm millersman seems to have read the original thread since he commented in it, but does he actually understand...?
17:24 paramat heh
17:24 hmmmm if he did then he'd get why the PR isn't a solution
17:25 hmmmm it's not like 50 people haven't already tried fixing it and then this random person does something obvious and all of a sudden it works
17:25 hmmmm we're gonna have to invent something for a good solution, and also perhaps some compromise
17:25 hmmmm i hate to say it
17:25 paramat well engine can be frozen now, no milestone PRs left
17:26 paramat game has a tnt
17:26 paramat sorry ..
17:26 paramat .. PR i will review then merge soon
17:26 hmmmm no problem, as long as something is happening
17:27 paramat so yes engine freeze now. game freeze later tonight probably
17:27 Zeno` yay
17:28 Zeno` tnt by sofar?
17:28 Zeno` I tested that... it's great
17:29 Zeno` can't/won't comment on the code (I'm not 100% comfortable with Lua)
17:29 paramat i have some texture tweaks for game to propose, but textures don't have to delay game freeze
17:29 hmmmm actually on second look
17:29 hmmmm millerman's solution might possibly be okay
17:29 hmmmm it needs to be profiled though, this is one of those things that can't be predicted accurately
17:29 Zeno` hmmmm, I think it would be ok because that queue is always full anyway lol
17:30 Zeno` but as I said... not looking at it until after release
17:30 paramat there are still some engine issues labelled as milestones
17:30 hmmmm it's not
17:30 Zeno` paramat, you can freeze with issues still open (IMO)
17:30 paramat yes correct
17:31 hmmmm it only gets "full"-ish on mapgen time
17:31 hmmmm in the average case it's like... 10
17:31 Zeno` hmmmm, on a multi-user server it's nearly always full
17:31 hmmmm well what did you expect
17:31 Zeno` I profiled it ages ago
17:32 hmmmm so if it's almost always full on a multi-player server now, it's going to be even worse when every single block load adds 1k or more
17:32 hmmmm at that point why even bother, honestly
17:32 hmmmm if the liquid transform queue is going to be always full then no liquids will get flowed
17:32 Fixer why?
17:32 hmmmm maybe there needs to be a smarter liquid flowing algorithm
17:32 Fixer is it gets stuck or smth?
17:33 hmmmm one that doesn't recursively re-add nodes
17:34 Fixer don't understand why when it gets full it won't process, it will process oldest parts and slowly empty it, etc first in first out thing
17:35 hmmmm oh yeah it'll get processed
17:35 hmmmm you're just gonna have to wait an hour
17:35 Zeno` hmmmm, yes, but it won't matter... because clogged is clogged
17:36 Zeno` if I still had my VPN I'd be tempted to setup a server just to test it
17:36 hmmmm or maybe even better, you'll get a std::bad_alloc crash on the 1 zillionth liquid transform
17:36 Fixer i don't know, i will just apply that PRs and play with them on that world copy, just to see the gameplay
17:36 hmmmm i don't think the liquid transform queue gets dumped anymore
17:36 Zeno` hmmmm, it's (it == that queue) already occupies most of the RAM according to massif
17:37 hmmmm yeah okay
17:37 hmmmm it's clear to me at least that the liquid flow algorithm sucks and simply doesn't scale
17:37 Zeno` yep :)
17:37 hmmmm this shit
17:37 hmmmm is not fixing the issue
17:37 hmmmm so are you volunteering for improving liquid flow?  lol
17:37 Zeno` me?
17:37 hmmmm ya
17:38 Zeno` no way dude
17:38 hmmmm hahaha
17:39 hmmmm ok less talk more code
17:40 Zeno` If I did it I'd implement the cooling/absorbing heh
17:40 Fixer paramat, "players on Xanadu complaining about new grass texture... they no like"
17:40 paramat stuck liquids are not a huge problem, at least they don't spread anymore
17:40 Fixer yeah
17:40 paramat heh well of course many will not like it
17:40 Fixer worst thing is when some DH places one block below it and it spreads a little and go down in that shape and freeze :)
17:41 Zeno` my water elevators are broken!
17:41 Fixer someone actually playing minetest? breaking
17:42 Zeno` I was giving an example of a complaint :P
17:42 paramat oh :)
17:48 paramat sofar i'll merge game#1061 now i assume it's still ready
17:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1061 -- TNT: Combine adjacent TNT into the explosion by sofar
17:49 sofar yes, it's good to go
17:49 paramat good work on this, thanks
17:49 sofar I experimented yesterday with liquids being a falling node, that was interesting
17:50 sofar it has potential
17:53 * VanessaE peeks in
17:55 paramat 'peek' and 'poke' were ZX Spectrum keywords for accessing memory locations
17:55 * VanessaE pokes paramat jut because.
17:56 MillersMan hmmmm, Zeno` : didn't notice my PR are in discussion. Some background on my fixes: I did my best to avoid adding any nodes to the tranformation list that don't belong there.
17:56 paramat now merging
17:57 MillersMan #4065 might actually get rid of the issue with clogged queue after mapgen, as it ignores most of the nodes that would have been previously added
17:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4065 -- Fix for flow issues in Mapgen::updateLiquid by MillersMan
18:00 MillersMan the old implementation added the whole upper plane of generated chunks while the new implementation ignores anything above the first actual non-ignored block which actually solved a bug while I wasn't able to see any issue so far
18:01 MillersMan the loading implementation will only add the highest and lowest node in an actual water column where a column that might continue above or below is ignored
18:02 paramat merged, all game milestones cleared
18:03 MillersMan so for ocean blocks it will only add the water surface and the water base which has a relative low overhead.
18:03 paramat 4065 issue 1 is weird, water does usually spread when it hits ground
18:04 MillersMan paramat: it only does if it wasn't added by the mapgen, i've added the following line in the plane mapgen to produce the result
18:04 MillersMan line 400: } else if (y <= water_level || x == 0 && z == 0 &&) {
18:04 MillersMan oh sorry should be } else if (y <= water_level || x == 0 && z == 0) {
18:05 paramat if it was added by schematic or voxelmanip liquid is not added to the transform queue
18:06 MillersMan it is not that it wasn't added to the queue, it's just that the solid block was added instead of the fluid block itself, in case of an air block the transform will still work as it just progresses downward but it will just ignore solid blocks so the column is stuck
18:07 MillersMan its actually only replacing the coordinate with the uppers nodes coordinate if the node itself is not fluid, the rest of the PR is about avoiding updates where they shouldn't be
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18:09 Zeno` MillersMan, as I said... personally I think it has potential
18:10 Zeno` I (for one) will certainly be looking at it very closely after release
18:10 Zeno` liquid stuff was a big problem on my server when I had one
18:11 MillersMan the loading algorithm could be improved by additionally ignoring all nodes that have fluid or solid nodes beside them
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18:12 hmmmm millersman:  yes, I looked at your code a bit better and it definitely has potential
18:13 hmmmm do you mind performing a simple printf("transforming queue size: %u\n", m_transforming_liquid_queue.size()); in transformLiquids() with and without your fix?
18:14 MillersMan I've tested it with the map attached to #2977 and runs unexpectedly smooth on my machine, but someone else with more MT-benchmarking experience has to validate my results
18:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2977 -- Stop liquids from flowing over ignore. by red-001
18:14 paramat ah i see updateLiquids is failing for a water column, i guess we don't notice usually because most water is in a mass below water_level, or in gently sloping rivers
18:14 MillersMan I'll can do it
18:15 paramat perhaps check rivers in mgvalleys for non-updated water
18:15 Fixer i will play with those prs :)
18:15 Fixer i remember some stuck water in valleys iirc
18:15 Fixer placed by mapgen
18:15 hmmmm as for the sides of a water column not getting flowed
18:15 MillersMan paramat: I only noticed it when testing the broken map and after all water run off  few places were left that had the same initial configuration and i tried to reporoduce it with mapgen and the issue remained there
18:15 hmmmm that was expected behavior
18:15 paramat yes i've come to expect occasional non-updated water
18:16 hmmmm i made it that way because the topmost water node is supposed to spill and cause the lower nodes to get their transform queued as well
18:16 hmmmm like a cascade effect
18:16 MillersMan hmmmm: But it does if it gets generated in any other way than by mapgen only, so for me it is unexpected behaviour
18:16 hmmmm right... that's why it's called Mapgen::updateLiquids
18:17 hmmmm generating map is a heavy operation to begin with, so all the mapgen variations of the algorithms like transforming liquids and updating light take many shortcuts and make assumptions on the current state, for the sake of speed
18:19 MillersMan topmost nodes will still spill exept for cases where there is an upper block that might continue the column but wasn't generated yet
18:20 MillersMan i've started learning MT code by doing a new mapgen that has strictly downflowing rivers (ok sometimes there is a single water node above the other where it shouldn't be, but that just a bug) that go through the whole map, so mapgen code is the part i know best so far
18:20 rubenwardy #579
18:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/579 -- Don't grant priveleges to non-existent players. by 0gb-us
18:20 paramat the shortcuts in updateLiquids are ok with me, even working with a river mapgen the stuck water bugs are only occasional and minor
18:21 rubenwardy game#579
18:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/579 -- Add give_initial_stuff API (and a setting) by rubenwardy
18:21 paramat nice rebased
18:21 paramat i'll merge
18:22 Fixer kahrl, will you bugfix that chat scrolling before release or after?
18:25 paramat mapgen doesn't usually generate these water columns so it may be best to not fix the issues in 4065
18:26 hmmmm it might be worthwhile as long as the number of updated nodes isn't significantly higher..
18:27 hmmmm mapgen generates water columns when you have a cave that gets carved right next to a lake
18:27 hmmmm (maybe it's for the best, liquids + caves = bad news
18:28 paramat now merging game 579
18:34 paramat done
18:37 MillersMan hmmmm: Where can I paste the output generated by transformLiquids?
18:37 hmmmm fpaste.org?
18:39 MillersMan here is the output: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/361565/27923146/
18:39 MillersMan I'll do the same without my changes
18:40 hmmmm wow
18:40 hmmmm at least it's not consistently 12-15k like my attempt
18:45 Fixer i have compiling error while cross-compiling win build on my debian of newest minetest: error in event.cpp I guess, pic: https://i.imgur.com/U6A90oH.png Should I open an issue?
18:47 MillersMan Here the same without my fixes: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/361569/62128420/
18:50 MillersMan The first version contained both PRs, so the high load during loading will be gone without #4061 but the lower load during generation is the result of #4065
18:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4061 -- Add loaded blocks to transforming_liquid-queue similar to updateLiquid by MillersMan
18:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4065 -- Fix for flow issues in Mapgen::updateLiquid by MillersMan
18:51 MillersMan I didn't apply my changes from 4065 to the loading algorithm in 4061 yet, it might get better when doing so
18:53 MillersMan looks like 4065 reduces load while generating area with little to now water by up to factor 20, while removing it completely in dry regions
18:55 MillersMan I'll going to check whether it has any disadvantages for valleys mapgen, or are there any other mapgens with flowing water spread over a y range of about 200 nodes or so?
18:57 paramat no only mgvalleys
18:57 paramat mgv5 can have very deep oceans though, but this is mostly liquid source
18:58 hmmmm incredible
18:58 hmmmm and shadowninja wonders why I get upset with his copious overusage of ifdef blocks
18:59 paramat i agree that addressing the updatng of water next to underwater tunnel entrances would be good, to get it flowing down into tunnels
19:00 MillersMan only issue i can think of is if an upper block gets generated before one below without overlap and the upper one contains fluid that stops exactly at generation border with ari below, but either i wasn't able to adjust the flat-mapgen to generate one of that or its not an issue
19:00 Fixer paramat, yeah, i've seen some times water in caves that got stuck above nice cave
19:00 MillersMan either case i would term a mapgen that creates a lake over air with the ground being the generation chunks border an bug by itself, so this should not be an issue
19:01 Fixer paramat, or you mean generated one?
19:02 paramat i mean in core mapgen
19:05 MillersMan oh, one bug isn't fixed with my PRs: if fluid stops exactly at side of a chunk that is generated before the neighbouring one that contains only air, but this would require different measures
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19:05 MillersMan so no, haven't fixed all issues with flow in valleys mapgen :(
19:06 MillersMan http://imgur.com/TDOB1OA
19:07 paramat maybe we could make updateLiquids overgenerate like generateTerrain does, but by 1 node horizontally too
19:07 paramat for overlap
19:07 hmmmm please stop it with the overgeneration
19:08 paramat heh
19:08 paramat maybe not
19:08 hmmmm it might solve the immediate problem but it causes data dependency problems
19:08 paramat i agree it can be problematic, best avoided if possible
19:09 hmmmm like mapgen isn't subtle enough the way it is
19:09 hmmmm --;
19:09 paramat does disabling waving water solve that river bug?
19:10 Fixer is not we removed it?
19:10 paramat that was 'new style water'
19:11 paramat the slight lowering of water surface
19:11 Fixer waving water adds another problems
19:13 MillersMan paramat: i wouldn't expect it, the river bug comes from not recreating tranformation requests at the borders of chunk if the neighbouring block was containing water but the generated block doesn't
19:15 MillersMan fixing those might be possible if updateLiquid will also process the borders of neighbouring blocks that already existed
19:16 MillersMan not sure if this is possible yet, as i don't know whether mapgen starts out with an empty buffer or whether it preloads existing content
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19:19 paramat mapgen works with the 5x5x5 block mapchunk plus a 1 mapblock thick 'shell' of mapblocks
19:21 paramat some things like large caves, dungeons, trees will be generated out into neighbour mapchunks
19:25 hmmmm i wish i could take a video of my screen right now
19:26 hmmmm to share how good it feels to highlight ~600 lines of code, and then press the backspace button
19:26 hmmmm and then do it 5 more times
19:29 Fixer http://littlefun.org/uploads/52​4cd2d3e691b2144cc4428d_736.jpg
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19:37 paramat nice, de-duplicating all that mapgen code
19:38 MillersMan paramat: thanks, just have seen that MMVManip::initialEmerge initializes the new block with already generated nodes so it should be possible to fix this bug easily
19:39 hmmmm it's pretty much impossible to deduplicate valleys mapgen generateCaves however :(
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19:39 paramat yeah
19:39 Zeno` yeah
19:40 MillersMan hmmmm: it would be even worse with my canyon mapgen once underground rivers are implemented, it will rewrite the whole cave generation...
19:41 Zeno` changing in event.cpp to this:   http://dpaste.com/3NAWQ6S
19:41 hmmmm oh god no
19:41 hmmmm please don't do that zeno
19:42 hmmmm instead, remove the #ifdevs around the notified variable definition
19:43 Zeno` even though it's not used?
19:43 Zeno` actually I'll leave it... it's a trivial error
19:43 hmmmm it's worth not having surprise compilation fails for some specific subset of builds
19:43 Zeno` got to sleep
19:44 hmmmm bad enough that the client and server include different subsets of header files making server-only builds fail for some people due to the large and complex chain of required includes...
19:44 hmmmm better yet, on certain platforms
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20:00 MillersMan can't reproduce my issue anymore, same seed, approaching the blocks from the same side but the river is flowing now at that location :((
20:06 paramat it may be an occasional random thing. y = 176 is a lock border but not a chunk border
20:07 paramat nore sfan5 WIP but some screenshots game#1065
20:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1065 -- Default: Slightly lower grass_side and snow_side textures by paramat
20:07 sfan5 I'm not sure whether i like this more
20:07 sfan5 also
20:07 sfan5 can we finally have a set date for feature freeze?
20:09 paramat freeze doesn't have to stop new textures, so now, engine is in freeze
20:09 paramat savanna certianly looks better, more golden. the snow side needs work though
20:10 paramat (certainly)
20:10 sfan5 when do you plan to release?
20:10 paramat provisionally 2 weeks later
20:10 sfan5 later than now?
20:11 paramat 2 weeks from freeze start
20:11 hmmmm this is ridiculous
20:11 sfan5 yeah when did the freeze start
20:11 paramat right now
20:12 hmmmm we'll release on the 11th
20:12 hmmmm no ifs ands or buts!
20:12 sfan5 why do we need yet another 2 weeks of freeze?
20:12 sfan5 i understand that there are problems in need of solving
20:12 paramat some feel 2 weeks is needed
20:12 hmmmm to test the burst of changes that just got merged to make sure nothing is a huge issue
20:12 sfan5 but this release has been pushed so far back already
20:12 sfan5 this is getting a little annoying
20:12 sfan5 "some"
20:13 paramat better than rushing
20:13 sfan5 rushing
20:13 sfan5 ahaha
20:13 sfan5 what
20:13 sfan5 this release is anything but not rushed
20:14 paramat getting annoyed is your problem
20:14 Fixer don't forget to test the damn thing :)
20:14 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. Feature freeze since 2016-05-01, release on 11th. Last release: 0.4.13, Aug 20 2015. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
20:14 sfan5 it may be
20:14 sfan5 this release having been pushed back a lot is a fact though
20:15 paramat unavoidable due to many bugs arising at last moment
20:15 hmmmm what bugs have arisen though?
20:15 sfan5 bugs do not require pushing back a feature freeze
20:15 paramat well yes
20:16 paramat i mean essential PRs
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20:17 paramat the complaints seem to come from devs not around much
20:18 paramat who then seem to blame me for the delay
20:18 paramat and don't have much of a grasp of whats going on
20:18 hmmmm well, as the release manager, you do get to make judgement calls on whether or not something *needs* to be fixed in this release
20:19 paramat i odn't mind less than 2 weeks freeze, it's up to others, it was requested by a few devs so i went with 2 weeks
20:19 paramat (don't)
20:20 paramat i think it went well. delay is irritating for everyone, but it was needed
20:21 paramat i now know why est31 didn't enjoy being release manager last time. people give you crap :)
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20:24 hmmmm after your turn, who is up next?
20:25 hmmmm i already went a couple times now, est31 went, you went, pilzadam went, did zeno ever do it?
20:25 PilzAdam why choose someone who hasn't done it before?
20:26 hmmmm everyone should get a turn'
20:26 PilzAdam I think experience is a big factor when managing releases
20:27 hmmmm distributing experience in this manner is good though because everybody will get to know what they're doing up to a certain point
20:27 hmmmm and maybe have a provision like the last release manager to go should help the next one
20:27 PilzAdam maybe w could have 2 release managers next time?
20:28 PilzAdam it would make life easier for both of them
20:29 paramat it's quite an experience, you need a lot of tolerance
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22:04 hmmmm hey guys
22:04 hmmmm does anybody know off the top of their head what a class would be that has its purpose documented?
22:05 hmmmm there are a lot of inline comments about what individual methods do, or what a parameter is, but i can't find any examples of where we wrote a comment discussing the what/why of a class
22:05 hmmmm i'd much rather follow prior precedent than making up my own style as i go along
22:06 hmmmm nvm, found one in camera.h
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22:10 MillersMan hmmmm: A few others are in environment.h
22:18 hmmmm i guess these days minetest developers aren't too terribly concerned about architecture and where their code fits in :/
22:24 MillersMan i wouldn't say it this way... minetest seams to have an architecture and the structure was easy to learn so far... i've seen projects where you wouldn't be able to answer any architecture related question without doing a whole day of traversing call-hierarchies and writing full blackboards with dependency-graphs
22:26 MillersMan fixing a trivial issue in such an project is roulette, it might take 10 minutes or a whole week and one can't answer before the fix is done
22:26 hmmmm there's no way to know if you're inadvertantly causing an even bigger bug by fixing it either
22:32 hmmmm i'm glad people like minetest's architecture :)
22:34 MillersMan so far it was fun, and i think i already know about 50% of all flow related code, or maybe more
22:35 MillersMan and a lot of mapgen stuff
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