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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-04-24

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Time Nick Message
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01:20 sofar ugh, is there no way to intercept on_punch for an entity so I can play a death animation?
01:22 sofar I guess I have to make it immortal and do all the damage calculations myself, then
01:30 sofar enough procrastination, I need to write the movement code now :/
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04:59 gregorycu #4025
04:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4025 -- Fix for Main Menu uses a lot of CPU by gregorycu
05:00 Zeno` people will complain that the clouds don't move as fast as the did before :D
05:01 gregorycu I was actually more worried about the click-responsiveness
05:01 gregorycu But even 5fps is fine
05:01 est31 what bout making cloud movement not dependent on fps?
05:01 gregorycu It's not
05:01 gregorycu Clouds move at the same rate regardless
05:01 gregorycu (I think the default for the setting in question is 20fps)
05:01 Zeno` Yes, sorry est31 (I was being facetious)
05:02 Zeno` *shrug* looks good to me
05:02 est31 Zeno`, i didnt know it either :)
05:02 Zeno` est31, heh
05:07 Zeno` Physical id 0:  +68.0°C  (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)  :/
05:08 Zeno` 85%
05:08 Zeno` 90C
05:08 Zeno` I think I'll bbl
05:08 gregorycu Zeno must have had the main menu open
05:09 DI3HARD139 lol
05:14 est31 an even better fix would be to make the clouds drawing use less cpu
05:14 est31 if thats possible somehow
05:16 gregorycu That's not the issue here
05:16 gregorycu Well
05:17 gregorycu The reason the CPU heats up is because drawing the clouds are so trivial
05:17 gregorycu That not a lot of time is spent with graphics related operations
05:17 gregorycu But instead, in code that prepared the cloud for drawing
05:18 gregorycu Maybe we can make it better, for instance, cache the results of the perlin noise stuff rather than recalculating
05:18 gregorycu But yeah, this brings the main menu in-line with the in-game-menu, so I think at the very least, we should do this
05:19 est31 yeah +1 to the patch
05:20 gregorycu I'm going through the issues tagged "Performance" to see if I can get rid of some easy ones
05:23 sofar minetest.find_nodes_in_area_under_air never returns any nodes for me... weird
05:25 sofar ahh silly me
05:30 DI3HARD139 Im surprise CPU temps are high. My CPU is usually idling at the main menu
05:31 gregorycu If you want to reproduce the bug, set your max_fps to be very large
05:32 gregorycu I managed to make one CPU max out
05:32 gregorycu With the patch, minetest uses ~0% CPU in main menu for me
05:32 DI3HARD139 is around 300 good?
05:32 gregorycu Make it 1000
05:32 DI3HARD139 thats what I currently have it set to.
05:32 DI3HARD139 ok. checking now
05:33 gregorycu It should use 100% of one core
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05:34 DI3HARD139 Only using roughly 80% atm
05:35 gregorycu What's your FPS?
05:35 gregorycu Surely not 1000 ?
05:35 DI3HARD139 481
05:35 gregorycu Interesting
05:36 DI3HARD139 constant. Thats using HDX256 though
05:36 gregorycu Ahh ok
05:36 gregorycu Basically, the more crap your graphics card is, the more CPU it will use
05:36 gregorycu It's strange
05:37 DI3HARD139 Thats OGL for ya.
05:37 gregorycu Anyway, no need for massive FPS in main menu
05:37 DI3HARD139 What GPU are you using?
05:38 gregorycu HD 5700
05:38 gregorycu A model in that series, I can't remember which
05:38 gregorycu The users reporting the issue were on laptops
05:39 DI3HARD139 lemme get on my laptop. It has a Quadro 1000m
05:40 gregorycu lol, you don't have to
05:40 gregorycu But if you want, I'm not gunna stop you
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05:43 DI3HARD139 83% avg and 200fps
05:44 gregorycu Do you have a fps_limit of 200?
05:45 DI3HARD139 nope. I dont use FPS caps. Nor Vsync
05:45 gregorycu Cool, if you make your fps_limit 20, you'll use next to no CPU
05:45 Zeno` 20? Wouldn't that be yucky to play?
05:46 DI3HARD139 ^
05:46 gregorycu lol
05:46 gregorycu Not the main menu
05:46 DI3HARD139 I like to maintain 60 if possible. Or if I have no choice 30
05:46 gregorycu In the main menu?
05:47 gregorycu You're wanting to see the effect of decreasing the fps_max on the main menu, this is how :P
05:47 gregorycu Or take my patch
05:47 Zeno` oh, heh
05:47 gregorycu I'm 99.9% certain my patch will fix the issue for the user
05:48 gregorycu So, any investigation is for your own benefit DI3HARD139, unless you can +1 my patch that is
05:48 Zeno` firefox is using 25% cpu!
05:48 Zeno` sitting on the google homepage... no wonder my cpu is hotter than usual
05:49 Zeno` Maybe I could limit its FPS somehow
05:49 hmmmm [01:18 AM] <gregorycu> Maybe we can make it better, for instance, cache the results of the perlin noise stuff rather than recalculating
05:49 hmmmm incredible
05:49 est31 google uses you for mining bitcoins
05:49 hmmmm perlin noise is still a bottleneck
05:49 gregorycu hmmmm: Well, it is for the main menu cause it represents a significant chunk of CPU processing
05:49 gregorycu In-game, probably less of a slice
05:50 hmmmm this is a problem on android i take it?
05:50 gregorycu It would be. But the issue was reported on laptops.
05:50 DI3HARD139 Zeno': Have ya cleaned the heatsink out lately?
05:50 hmmmm very interesting
05:50 DI3HARD139 and changed the thermal compound?
05:50 Zeno` DI3HARD139, about 20 minutes ago
05:50 gregorycu #2226
05:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2226 -- Minetest main menu uses a lot of CPU
05:50 hmmmm on PCs at least, main menu takes up 1% cpu if anything at all
05:51 hmmmm but the real question is should anybody be working on optimizing this so close to release
05:51 gregorycu Did you check my patch? I mean, the contents?
05:51 gregorycu We don't have to merge this now
05:52 Zeno` I'm not sure if that really classifies as an optimisation per se, but even if it is we don't have to stop work just because a release is imminent :p
05:52 hmmmm oh
05:52 hmmmm that's really sweet and simple
05:52 hmmmm sure, i approve of it
05:52 Zeno` me too
05:52 est31 me too
05:52 Zeno` quickest approval ever
05:53 gregorycu \o/
05:53 hmmmm pause_fps_max is like 15 by default right?
05:54 gregorycu 20
05:54 hmmmm yeah ok
05:54 hmmmm and later on we'll (i will or you if you really want to) optimize clouds
05:54 gregorycu Sounds good to me
05:55 hmmmm a large enough buffer could be generated once and looped around
05:55 hmmmm nobody is going to notice
05:55 gregorycu Something to keep in mind, if the user has fps_max set to something very high
05:55 hmmmm like one 80x500 strip of noise
05:55 gregorycu (And we don't take my change)
05:55 gregorycu We'll still churn through a lot of CPU
05:55 gregorycu Cause drawing the clouds in the GPU is trivial
05:56 VanessaE hmmmm: weren't clouds once done exactly like that at one time?
05:56 gregorycu But yeah, should be optimised
05:56 hmmmm vanessae, not to my knowledge.
05:56 Zeno` But... what about the people who like to watch the clouds for hours looking for new shapes and patterns?
05:56 hmmmm i wonder if there's a way to loop around a scene node in irrlicht
05:56 hmmmm or tile it
05:57 hmmmm cloud_strip_size =
05:57 hmmmm they can set it to a zillion if they want
05:57 Zeno` could we just do a shader that makes nice smoke
05:57 Zeno` I suppose people would miss the nice clouds
05:58 hmmmm maybe we can bulk generate perlin noise and generate it as a texture
05:58 hmmmm then use that texture as data for the shaders
05:58 Zeno` might work
05:58 nore anyway, even if we keep generating the clouds, but with caching, ot wouldn't be very expensive, would it?
05:59 hmmmm i feel like this is getting way out of scope though
05:59 gregorycu Yeah
05:59 hmmmm it's supposed to be a quick simple optimization
05:59 gregorycu I'm all for a complicated optimisation if profiling indicates we would get significant gain
05:59 gregorycu Clouds are only a major problem in the main menu
06:00 gregorycu I can take a look at clouds later to see if the actual game would benefit
06:01 Zeno` why use perlin noise for the menu clouds at all?
06:01 hmmmm what should be used instead..?
06:01 hmmmm perlin noise is not a heavy operation, the cloud generator is just doing it wrong
06:01 Zeno` they're just squares ... surely any PRNG could do the job of queuing a new cloud or two that will emerge next
06:02 hmmmm it takes under 1 millisecond to generate 80x80 of the data
06:02 Zeno` oh, well that's nothing
06:05 hmmmm yeah
06:05 hmmmm i have an idea for a good algorithm to do clouds (and more generally all kinds of smoke) with shaders
06:06 hmmmm it's just a matter of asking, do the players want that or do they want the characteristic clouds of minetest that they're used of
06:07 est31 well in the worst case we add an option for the legacy clouds
06:07 est31 in fact we do require this as shaders are optional
06:09 hmmmm how do video games usually implement clouds?
06:09 hmmmm i'm wondering if using perlin to generate them is overboard
06:16 DI3HARD139 They are usually particle shaders.
06:20 Zeno` c64, amiga etc used to use just normal random numbers (the clouds are really just an oversized starfield if you look at them in a certain way)
06:21 Zeno` big blobs instead of points (or balls)
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07:13 jin_xi est31: so i have a bad feeling about that pathfinder PR. it got merged w/o much discussion and does a controvesial thing, and i wonder if thats gonna cause headaches for some after release
07:15 jin_xi its pull no 2651 and the issue is 3453
07:24 nore ~tell paramat maybe merge #3907 since freeze is today...
07:24 ShadowBot nore: O.K.
07:25 nore hmm, interesting, ShadowBot doesn't links PRs when you use ~tell
07:27 gregorycu #3453
07:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3453 -- minetest.find_path returns extremely bloated path
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07:36 Zeno` will merge #4025 shortly (3 approvals)
07:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4025 -- Fix for Main Menu uses a lot of CPU by gregorycu
07:37 gregorycu Thanks Zeno
07:37 Zeno` np
07:41 Zeno` done and done and done
07:42 Zeno` and CPU is still on 27C :D
07:42 gregorycu Hooray!
07:43 gregorycu What happens with the bug?
07:43 Krock roast and eat it
07:43 gregorycu (Shouldn't github close it automatically?)
07:45 Zeno` oh.. I'll close it
07:46 Zeno` it probably would close it if I used github to commit (I dunno... don't trust github heh)
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07:46 gregorycu Ahh ok
07:47 gregorycu Yeah, i didn't have
07:47 gregorycu "Fixed #blah" in the commit message
07:47 gregorycu Only the PR
07:47 Zeno` Those github "merge now" buttons scare me
07:47 Zeno` I think I used it once and it went all FUBAR
07:49 est31 they have been changed since
07:49 est31 github introduced a merge + squash feature
07:50 est31 basically the same thing we did before all the time
07:50 est31 no merge commit created
07:50 est31 and c55 has enabled the feature by default, without a way to not do it
07:51 Krock So, updated #4016 with est31's comments
07:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4016 -- tile.cpp: Automatically resize overlaying texture to base dimensions by SmallJoker
07:52 Zeno` est31, so it will work as expected now?
07:52 est31 Zeno`, yes, try it :)
07:52 * Zeno` looks at the green button in terror
07:52 est31 :)
07:52 Zeno` heh
07:52 est31 https://github.com/blog/2141-squash-your-commits
07:53 est31 and its no april fools joke despite the date
07:55 Zeno` I'll try it. Although I don't mind just typing it
07:55 Zeno` gives me a chance to test etc
07:55 Zeno` overly paranoid perhaps, but *shrug*
07:56 Zeno` does it let me abort if I click it just as a test?
07:56 est31 there is a second dialog before, you must do two clicks to merge a pr
07:56 Zeno` ok, I'm willing to try it out in that case
07:56 Zeno` next commit
07:58 Zeno` It may have made committing nore's PR last night easier (git am didn't work)
07:58 Zeno` I had to branch from an earlier commit, squash, rebase and apply to master... kind of annoying
07:59 Zeno` but github was saying it would merge no problems so maybe it does fancy stuff
08:02 gregorycu I'm looking at #3511
08:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3511 -- Setting an item's range high results in poor performance
08:03 est31 gregorycu, thats because we dont do real ray tracing
08:03 gregorycu Yeah
08:03 est31 we need to do some improved version of bresenham's algorithm or something
08:03 gregorycu We basically get every node in a octant, and then see if we collide with it
08:03 est31 yeah
08:04 est31 pretty inefficient
08:04 gregorycu That's reasonably intensive
08:04 Zeno` oooh, I've done lots of modified bresenham's. I even modified it to rotate and zoom pixmaps heh
08:04 gregorycu What I suggest that, as a stop-gap measure, when the wield distance is over some threshold, like 20, we precull nodes where the angle to the node is greater than the camera angle
08:05 gregorycu It's not perfect, but for large draw distances, it should significantly improve performance
08:05 est31 yeah
08:05 Zeno` for large draw distances wouldn't error be more applicable anyway (so culling shouldn't make all that much negative difference)
08:06 gregorycu I'm about to test it out
08:06 gregorycu How I've implemented it, for nodes near the user, no culling happens, for nodes far away, culling occurs
08:07 gregorycu And this logic only kicks in when the tool has a large wield distance
08:07 gregorycu So yeah, as you say Zeno, shouldn't make any difference to correctness
08:09 Zeno` seems like a valid conclusion
08:23 jin_xi so im still trying out some stuff for particle collision overhaul: here is a greedy mesher making meshes used for collision detection. now trying to get it to make the right block at the right position.
08:23 jin_xi http://imgur.com/ZAaYxlz
08:23 Krock cool structure
08:29 jin_xi so what i am wondering about is how to let particle systems keep track of map changes. just re-meshing every step is too slow
08:30 jin_xi and for digging particles many particle systems actually use the same block, so sharing those would be nice
08:31 jin_xi and i keep thinking that if these problems are solved this method of collision detection could be used for other stuff
08:31 jin_xi avoiding all the issues with unfitting, non-rotating collision boxes
08:51 gregorycu I can improve FPS from 22 to 38
08:51 gregorycu It's still pretty shit though
08:53 jin_xi here is another thing i wonder about: irrlicht code comments say its meshmanipulator is not intended for use inside render loops, yet minetest does exactly that
08:53 jin_xi https://sourceforge.net/p/irrlicht/code/HEAD/tr​ee/trunk/source/Irrlicht/CMeshManipulator.h#l17
08:56 est31 no
08:56 est31 we manipulate the meshes not inside render loops
08:56 est31 we manipulate them in a separate thread even
09:02 jin_xi oh ok, well thats good to know
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09:16 gregorycu I was thinking about bresenham
09:17 gregorycu But I'm not sure
09:17 gregorycu I think the current implemention could be modified to scan an small octant, move the origin, then the next octant, move origin, next octant
09:18 gregorycu With a little bit of overlap
09:20 gregorycu Maybe I should attempt bresnham
09:28 Zeno` gregorycu, on an unrelated project I profiled bresenham vs. floating point and the results were not compellingly different
09:28 gregorycu What do you mean "floating point"
09:28 Zeno` as long as there is an FPU (what doesn't have one these days?) then the difference is not great
09:29 Zeno` just using floating point calculations instead of accumulating errors in integers like bresenham
09:29 gregorycu Right
09:29 Zeno` but, it depends of course how you optimise it...
09:29 gregorycu bresenham isn't good enough though, at least, a simple implementation
09:29 gregorycu It "misses" corners
09:30 Zeno` it does?
09:30 Zeno` mine doesn't
09:30 Zeno` although it would (might) depend on distance
09:30 Zeno` so you're correct
09:31 gregorycu https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/t​humb/a/ab/Bresenham.svg/300px-Bresenham.svg.png
09:31 Zeno` the best thing about bresenham (and it might not even be applicable here) is the reduction down to 4 octants using reflection etc
09:32 Zeno` oh you mean that... yeah
09:33 Zeno` I thought you were referring to something else :)
09:33 gregorycu bresenham basically increments the smaller of the x and y component
09:33 gregorycu Right?
09:33 Zeno` normally
09:33 gregorycu And increments the other by 1, or if the error has built up, 2
09:33 gregorycu Or 0 and 1
09:33 gregorycu Sorry
09:34 Zeno` but if you look at optimised versions not really
09:34 Zeno` If I was in Windows I'd email you the papers I have
09:34 Zeno` but you'll find them
09:34 Zeno` unless you'd like me to reboot?
09:34 gregorycu We don't have to be superfast here
09:34 gregorycu Nah
09:34 Zeno` I'll email them to you later in any case (unless you mind)
09:35 Zeno` they're a good read
09:35 gregorycu We are currently looking at 1million nodes for a tool with range of 100
09:35 gregorycu Looking at a node requires a lookup in a std::map
09:35 Zeno` *nod*
09:35 gregorycu So yeah, we don't need a superfast algo to improve that
09:35 gregorycu Also have to be careful not to slow down tool range < 10
09:37 gregorycu I think I have an algo to try
09:38 Zeno` The gregorycu super-algo!
09:38 Zeno` (TM)(C)(R)
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09:38 Zeno` Google Cardboard support...
09:39 Zeno` anyone feel like doing that? :)
09:40 Zeno` ugh I jumped out of my tank and it destroyed my solar farm
09:40 Zeno` err... sorry... meant to pm
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09:41 neoascetic Does feature freeze mean there will be new release soon?
09:42 Zeno` neoascetic, yes
09:42 neoascetic Great! Tried v7 just now and it looks absolutely awesome
09:43 Zeno` I think paramat is aiming for 1-2 weeks of feature freeze (but don't quote me on that)
09:47 neoascetic Meanwhile, I've put addition $10 on #3440
09:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3440 -- Client side Lua scripting
09:47 neoascetic I know this is pretty small but anyway...
09:50 gregorycu $10 how?
09:51 gregorycu Ahh bounty
09:51 gregorycu Nice
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09:57 gregorycu I've added $15
09:59 neoascetic awesome
10:00 neoascetic I think this feature will be a huge improvement
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10:01 neoascetic AFAIK the only person who claim bounty from bountysource is me. My own bounties. Lol
10:01 gregorycu And now mine, apparently
10:08 Calinou >implying bounties are ever used
10:10 gregorycu I don't think that was the implication
10:10 gregorycu Hopefully people can back a few things
10:11 gregorycu After we somehow give project admins access to the bounty claiming
10:12 lisac nore: Are you there?
10:18 Zeno` must have been nore's secret admirer
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11:43 gregorycu hmm... I think I've done it
11:44 gregorycu A 3d Bresenham thing
11:45 gregorycu More like some sort of interpolation  machine
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12:40 gregorycu Fixer: Hello
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13:32 Fixer gregorycu, ohi
13:32 Fixer gregorycu, something interesting for me? %)
13:33 Fixer gregorycu, jitter? 3770?
13:33 gregorycu #3770
13:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3770 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by ShadowNinja
13:34 gregorycu Ahh, that thing
13:34 gregorycu #3511
13:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3511 -- Setting an item's range high results in poor performance
13:34 gregorycu That's what I'm looking at at the moment
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13:36 gregorycu Yeah, you can make code much faster by not doing calculations it seems
13:36 Zeno` amazing :)
13:44 Krock Rebased #3267
13:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3267 -- Standardize the menu button order and sizes by SmallJoker
13:51 gregorycu This code is blisteringly fast
13:51 gregorycu But buggy
13:51 gregorycu And a real PITA to debug
13:56 Zeno` sounds perfect!
13:56 gregorycu Like 5 fps to 140
14:00 Zeno` really?
14:01 gregorycu I think that was debug, so it doesn't really count
14:01 gregorycu But yeah
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14:05 gregorycu Examining 1M nodes is indeed slower than examaning 400
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14:31 gregorycu *sigh* Everything was going so well, until it crashed
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15:06 * gregorycu is a happy chappy now
15:08 gregorycu In release build, 250 fps, instead of 30
15:12 PilzAdam gregorycu, when using a tool with a high range?
15:12 gregorycu Yeah
15:12 gregorycu With a range of 100
15:13 gregorycu Range of 200 should be only 2 times slower than 100
15:13 PilzAdam what is the performance difference with a range 4 tool compared to a range 100 tool with your new code?
15:13 gregorycu In terms of FPS?
15:14 PilzAdam yep
15:14 gregorycu Hard to tell... I'll try to figure out
15:16 gregorycu lol
15:16 gregorycu Give me a sec, for some reason holding a screwdriver results in better FPS than sand
15:20 gregorycu Ok, so stone pick (range of 3)  vs steel pick (range of 150)
15:20 gregorycu Same FPS
15:20 gregorycu ~240 for me
15:21 PilzAdam thats great
15:21 gregorycu It goes from 220 - 240 no matter which tool
15:21 PilzAdam we could give the creative hand in mt_game a larger range now
15:22 gregorycu Well, I have to create a PR first
15:23 gregorycu lol @ destroying things far in the distance
15:23 gregorycu I can only tell cause the selection box is changing, it's so far away
15:25 gregorycu I've very happy with this, and it only took me 8 hours
15:25 gregorycu Time for a hot drink, bb in 10 min
15:46 Zeno` a nice warm irish cream
15:47 gregorycu I see what you did there
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16:04 gregorycu #4027
16:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4027 -- Make getPointedThing faster by gregorycu
16:05 gregorycu PilzAdam: You can have a play with that PR if you want to test your creative hand
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16:17 Krock gregorycu, so how much better is this change than before?
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16:18 gregorycu With the old code, and a tool with wield range of 100, the FPS for me was 30
16:18 gregorycu Now it's 240
16:19 Krock looks a bit too complex for me :<
16:20 gregorycu It's a little math heavy
16:20 gregorycu Oops, I meant to rename a variable before commiting
16:21 gregorycu Zeno`: Did you want me to fix up aabb3f box = *i; while I'm at it?
16:23 gregorycu Krock: The old code used to check an octant (which is like a quadrant but in 3d). It would try and intersect  distance ^ 3 nodes
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16:24 gregorycu My code starts near the camera and moves away, selecting nodes likely to intersect
16:24 Zeno` gregorycu, I just wondered why you were making copies of objects when copies are not needed
16:25 gregorycu yeah, the old code did it
16:25 Zeno` silly old code :(
16:25 gregorycu I was trying to not change that code so the diff would line up, but it's fucked anyway
16:25 gregorycu I'll amend it
16:25 Zeno` lol, cool :)
16:30 Zeno` gregorycu, I haven't tested but it looks great
16:31 Zeno` very neat solution
16:32 gregorycu Thank you
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17:03 nore gregorycu: did you test with doors though?
17:03 gregorycu lol doors?
17:03 nore Their selection box is bigger than the node
17:04 nore two nodes, to be more precise
17:04 gregorycu What's the item name?
17:04 Zeno` yeah, they sang great songs like "Touch Me" and "Gloria"
17:05 nore doors:door_wood iirc
17:06 gregorycu No problem with doors it seems
17:06 Zeno` Well, except that Jim Morrison died
17:07 gregorycu Are doors nodes or entities?
17:07 nore gregorycu: oh, interesting but surprising
17:07 gregorycu Yeah, it selects the door, doesn't select things behind the door
17:07 Zeno` nore, I thought you were going away for a week
17:08 nore they are nodes, but how recent if your minetest_game?
17:08 gregorycu A door is apparently two things
17:08 gregorycu door_wood_t and door_wood_b
17:08 nore Zeno`: I am, I am using my phone ;)
17:08 Zeno` haha, addicted :)
17:08 gregorycu Probably not that receint
17:08 nore gregorycu: then this is an old mtg
17:09 nore Zeno`: maybe :D
17:10 nore (well, I am visiting Sweden right now, but since I have nothing to do on the evening :))
17:10 gregorycu I'll get latest minetest_game
17:14 gregorycu Yeah
17:14 gregorycu I broke doors
17:14 gregorycu FML
17:14 gregorycu Well, how large can a selection box be?
17:16 gregorycu Who needs door anyway, amirite?
17:17 nore I don't know, they could be quite big
17:18 nore but I think it is reasonable to disallow selection boxes to get more than one node away
17:18 gregorycu 1 is just some value of n
17:19 gregorycu I think this is already broken, but less obviously so
17:19 nore or even to disallow them to be bigger than the node, with some kind of way to make them bigger (with a ghost node of something like that)
17:19 nore something like, a ghost node saying "look at that node instead of me"
17:20 gregorycu Or I can just special case for doors, and have it always check one node below
17:20 nore sofar: your opinions on that? (since it was you who rewrote doors...)
17:21 nore hmm, then maybe a callback to say to the engine that it should check in some direction too
17:22 nore and add that to the doors code
17:22 nore (new clients wouldn't be compatible with old servers though)
17:24 gregorycu Well, my special casing works
17:24 nore did you try beds too?
17:25 gregorycu Of course not, I'm not a good developer
17:25 gregorycu I'll check out beds
17:25 nore (more special cases I guess)
17:25 nore so, I think just one node away is reasonable
17:26 nore with documentation to go with it
17:28 gregorycu Yeah, beds are also broken
17:28 gregorycu What prevents me from building over the top of a bed?
17:28 gregorycu I mean, the part that isn't the node
17:29 nore So, do you think one node in each direction is a good compromise? What does it give on performance?
17:29 nore gregorycu: there is another, not pointable but not buildable_to node
17:30 gregorycu Maybe these things should be entities instead
17:31 gregorycu I can do 1 in every direction, the perf hit won't be too bad
17:31 nore no, entities are not a good idea for static things
17:32 nore There are a lot of problems with entities
17:32 sofar ideas? he broke it! ;)
17:33 nore Including /clearobjects, the maximum number of static entities per block, and a lot of other things
17:34 nore sofar: well, what do you think is better: keep his PR and fix doors and beds, or add the one-node-away check? ;)
17:34 nore (Which would cost some performance though, even if I think it wouldn't  be that much)
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17:35 gregorycu Ok, the one node thing works
17:35 gregorycu If that's the rule
17:35 nore I think the one-node-rule wouldn't break any mods
17:35 gregorycu hmm...
17:35 nore And it wouldn't cost too much (just a factor 7)
17:35 gregorycu This must be broken already
17:36 nore Why do you say that?
17:37 gregorycu Cause I know how the old logic used to work
17:39 nore Ah, and what was the problem?
17:40 gregorycu The old code used to do the +1 trick
17:41 gregorycu The problem with the old code
17:41 gregorycu Well
17:41 sofar how would we fix doors and beds? sorry, I missed the proposed change
17:41 gregorycu Don't worry about doors and beds, the amendment will work
17:41 * sofar still confused, has espresso
17:42 gregorycu nore: Do you know what a quadrant is?
17:42 sofar gregorycu: you could even optimize it
17:42 sofar gregorycu: 1 node up is logical
17:42 nore gregorycu: yes
17:42 sofar due to "visual_size"
17:42 gregorycu sofar: beds are one node across
17:42 sofar hmm, yes
17:42 sofar but never down
17:43 gregorycu sofar: That means I can optimise away 1 of 8
17:43 gregorycu nore: Do you know what an octant is?
17:43 nore gregorycu: yes too
17:44 nore sofar: the proposed change is to allow nodes to have a selection box extending up to one node away
17:44 gregorycu nore: Awesome. The old code would test an entire octant for things the player may be pointing at
17:44 sofar that's fine
17:44 sofar selection boxes are client-side things
17:44 nore Yeah, that was what I thought
17:44 gregorycu nore: So, if the tool had a range of 100, it would search 100 * 100 * 100 nodes
17:45 nore But, I was unable to make that break doors (although I tried hard, because I thought it would)
17:45 nore gregorycu: bad for performance, indeed
17:45 gregorycu Looking at the code, it ensures that the octant also includes slightly more than 1/8th
17:45 gregorycu More like 101 * 101 * 101
17:46 nore Oh, that's why it worked
17:46 gregorycu Yeah
17:46 gregorycu So yeah, 1 million nodes are checked
17:46 nore And that means that selection boxes extending further that one node were also broken
17:46 gregorycu Yes
17:46 nore So we're not breaking anything :)
17:47 gregorycu Correct
17:47 * nore likes it
17:47 gregorycu The other thing we could do is store a list of nodes with large selection boxes
17:47 gregorycu Or whatever, some structure
17:47 gregorycu And explicitly test them
17:48 nore hm, I don't know what the best would be
17:48 gregorycu Probably slower than just increasing the scope of checking
17:48 nore I think so too
17:48 nore Increasing the scope looks like a good idea to me
17:49 nore Best way would also probably be to first check the intersection on the main line
17:49 nore And then, check the oversized selection boxes that are a bit away
17:50 nore Using the node that was first found to reduce the number of checked nodes
17:50 gregorycu Checking a node isn't too slow
17:50 gregorycu Just when there are a million of them...
17:52 nore :D
17:52 gregorycu Bed time for me
17:52 hmmmm I'm confused
17:52 hmmmm isn't this hit detection for particles?
17:53 hmmmm particles are usually very small and unlikely to hit more than one node at a time
17:53 nore hmmmm: no, it is getPointedThing
17:53 hmmmm instead of an intersection of several polygons, can't it be a line instead?
17:54 hmmmm that's the smae thing
17:54 hmmmm they're both casting rays
17:54 hmmmm how is this slow?
17:58 nore hmmmm: what happens is that the current code checks the whole octant
17:58 nore Instead of just checking the casted ray
17:59 nore Gtg, bbl
17:59 hmmmm by octant you mean 2x2x2 cluster of nodes?
18:01 jin_xi moar like distance^3
18:01 hmmmm doesn't make sense to me, i should probably look at what the code is actually doing..
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18:15 kaadmy long range tools? :]
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18:16 Krock Wuzzy (IIRC) wrote a teleproter stick with a huge range of pointing a node
18:16 Krock as destination location
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18:52 * sofar scratches head and wonders how to get a handle on INodeDefManager inside pathfinder.cpp
18:52 sofar see https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/1701#issuecomment-214022155
18:56 sofar anyone know?
18:58 jin_xi env->gamedef->nodemanager?
19:02 sofar INodeDefManager *ndef = m_env->getGameDef()->ndef();
19:02 sofar that did something...
19:24 hmmmm guys is it okay if i rant a little bit in this channel
19:24 hmmmm need to dump my ideas about biomemanager architecture that i came up with while taking a shit
19:25 hmmmm ----------------- so we have a couple of requirements that are unfulfilled by the current implementation of BiomeManager
19:25 VanessaE hmmmm: well you're off by about 12 hours but go aheaed :)
19:25 hmmmm it's monolithic, and does not handle separation of concerns well
19:25 hmmmm - i want to be able to specify unique biome parameters for each mapgen
19:26 hmmmm - i want the biomemanager to handle all biome related computation - the mapgen should be able to give it parameters x y z and get a result
19:26 hmmmm so right now there is only one biomemanager shared across all mapgens
19:27 hmmmm and this is okay to do without synchronization because we made the contract that the biome list becomes read-only after the mod initialization phase
19:28 hmmmm but each mapgen needs its own set of noise values at any given time, so the workaround is that the mapgens provide the noise objects to the biome calc functions
19:28 hmmmm this is fine but it disrupts separation of concerns
19:28 hmmmm because now the mapgen is responsible for knowing what types of noises are needed for biome calculation
19:29 hmmmm the solution here would be to have a single BiomeManager per thread, clearly, but we don't want to deal with keeping the biome lists across all instances of BiomeManager synchronized
19:30 hmmmm so we'll retain the single BiomeManager as an element of the EmergeManager and we more clearly define BiomeManager's role as maintaining the biome list and handling the lookups
19:31 hmmmm we delegate biome *computation* to a new, separate class that each mapgen creates that exists on a per-thread basis
19:31 hmmmm what its name should be is not known at this point because i'm not 100% sure about what the responsibilities of this class is going to be yet
19:32 hmmmm but at the very least, it's going to be initialized with some of the same parameters for the mapgen
19:32 hmmmm but it's not going to be tied *to* the mapgen as the dungeongen is for example
19:33 hmmmm organizationally speaking, DungeonGen is a complete fuckup
19:33 hmmmm we do not want to repeat this again
19:35 hmmmm BiomeCalculator biomecalc(biomemgr, chunksize);   ... biomecalc.generateAndCacheBiomes(node_min); .... Biome *b = biomecalc.getBiomeAtPoint(p);    I guess?  pretty straightforward
19:36 hmmmm so we're going to have one kind of list of biomes, that is the BiomeManager
19:36 hmmmm but we're going to have many different ways to compute which of these biomes is chosen
19:37 hmmmm BiomeCalculator is going to be an interface, and the current approach to calculation (intersection of temperature and humidity) is going to just be one implementation
19:38 hmmmm which approach to calculation will be used is going to be handled the same way the rest of the biome configuration will be
19:38 hmmmm per mapgen
19:38 hmmmm this is going to be generalized in the same way mapgen configuration will be
19:39 hmmmm there'll exist a mapgen configuration script (so e.g. mapgen_v7.lua, mapgen_singlenode.lua) for each builtin mapgen that's executed upon final determination of the mapgen type
19:39 hmmmm here, this is where mapgen noise parameters will be set, and biome parameters chosen as well
19:40 hmmmm while i'm doing this i'd like to remove the mapgen params from the config files once and for all - that was a bad idea due to the sheer amount of configuration bloat but i didn't see it at the time
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19:40 hmmmm of course this will break reverse compatibility
19:40 hmmmm i'm going to go off on a limb and say fuck reverse compatibility this time
19:41 hmmmm people will just need to understand that they need to create a mod for their custom mapgen parameters if they want to make a *new* world with custom params
19:41 hmmmm of course this won't break previously existing worlds because the parameters have been copied to map_meta.txt
19:41 hmmmm </rant>
19:42 hmmmm putting thoughts into words really helps me organize it all
19:42 hmmmm now i'm going to do it
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21:28 jhcole for any minetest-mods dev, issue tracking is disabled for the castle mod; is that on purpose?
21:30 VanessaE sofar: ^^^
21:52 sofar jhcole: no, just means it wasn't enabled originally
21:53 sofar issues now enabled
21:53 jhcole sofar: thanks, i'll be making use of it soon :)
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22:48 sofar woot, I got my sheep to jump
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