Time Nick Message 00:54 est31 hmmmm, any other problems with the changes? 00:55 hmmmm nothing major, just extremely out of conformance with minetest code style and conventions 00:55 hmmmm but i guess that doesn't really matter for srp 00:55 est31 otherwise I'll merge an even newer version, that uses clang-format 00:55 est31 its closer to minetest code style than before 00:56 est31 e.g. it enforces no space after ( and before ) 00:56 est31 and space before * 00:56 hmmmm what is your own personal preference? j/w 00:56 est31 I've made the guidelines after my personal preference 00:56 est31 https://github.com/est31/csrp-gmp/blob/master/.clang-format 00:57 est31 so my preferences are aligned by minetest style guides i admit 00:57 est31 note that the last two commits are WIP 00:58 hmmmm is there a "preset" for Linux style? 00:58 est31 usually I dont do push -f, especially for old changes (> 1 day) 00:58 est31 yes 00:58 hmmmm sorta wonder what that does 00:59 est31 http://clang.llvm.org/docs/ClangFormatStyleOptions.html 00:59 est31 copies linux style guide 00:59 hmmmm i mean for CPP 00:59 est31 esp. http://clang.llvm.org/docs/ClangFormatStyleOptions.html#examples 00:59 hmmmm the minetest code style tries to be linux mostly except expands on c++ specific items 01:00 hmmmm i'm kind of interested in this because it could be integrated with the unit tests and give a warning on miscompliance or something 01:00 hmmmm better to have a robot do dumb things like style checking 01:00 hmmmm so nobody has to say, "oh you missed a space" 01:01 est31 yeah 01:01 hmmmm so what was up with that fit you had a couple days ago 01:01 est31 fit? 01:01 hmmmm from what i was reading in the logs and on various github comments you seemed very angry 01:02 est31 well idk, you turn up, thats cool, then you speak with a contributor about their pr, then you merge it without asking anybody else 01:02 est31 usually you just added a :+1: 01:03 hmmmm because it was small enough to only need 1 approval i thought 01:03 hmmmm certainly wasn't a medium sized PR 01:04 est31 well it had a pretty involved API change in it 01:04 hmmmm when i *just* add a :+1: that usually means i'm lazy and don't feel like going through all the process of downloading the patch and cherry picking it and so on 01:04 hmmmm involved as in, confusing? sure i'll agree it's confusing 01:04 est31 yes 01:05 hmmmm but paramat has done worse and i was the only one to code review it 01:05 hmmmm nobody seems to have a problem there 01:05 est31 yeah i understand that you then are eager to merge, i have this sometimes too 01:05 hmmmm and it certainly didn't break any reverse compatibility 01:06 est31 usually paramat waits though before its clear that nobody reviews his code 01:06 est31 e.g. mapgen change 01:07 hmmmm no, I'm saying he's modified the API, I'm the only one who reviews it, and there's nobody being upset there 01:07 hmmmm with that situation 01:07 hmmmm i'm sorry it's just that i had no idea that an api change automatically makes it a larger change that requires more reviewers 01:07 hmmmm not quite a change as much as an addition 01:08 hmmmm the word 'change' implies that it would disrupt others from doing their modding 01:09 est31 the main thing that i didnt like was that you didnt respond to my repeated questions 01:09 hmmmm you didn't ask me any questions before i merged it 01:09 est31 completely acted as if i wasnt there 01:09 est31 no no after you merged it 01:10 hmmmm you never asked me anything directly 01:10 hmmmm this is the first time in over 4 days i've been on IRC at the same time you are 01:10 est31 true 01:10 hmmmm soo... 01:10 est31 still I've tried to reach you over various channels 01:10 hmmmm i did act like you weren't there because you weren't there 01:10 est31 either way, I'm okay now with keeping the change in 01:11 hmmmm 'various channels' 01:11 est31 the main critic point I had (bad docs) was fixed 01:11 hmmmm I caught on to what was happening when I reviewed the logs for a completely different reason 01:12 est31 I also asked on github, although I could have remembered that you dont read github notifications 01:12 hmmmm ... no i do not 01:12 hmmmm github notifications are dumb 01:12 hmmmm they alert on literally every single thing anybody does 01:16 est31 we need a policy for how to deal with conflicts like these: where one dev merged a change and some other thinks it needs more approval 01:16 hmmmm celeron would probably think it's a 'waste of time' 01:16 hmmmm ;; 01:17 paramat anyone agree this can be closed? #2747 01:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2747 -- Random rotation of textures 01:17 est31 I'm only wondering about the disagreement case, not for how to interpret the rules 01:18 hmmmm the amount of approval required for something to be merged should always be the larger of the two in the case of a disagreement 01:18 est31 https://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=17362 01:18 est31 :( 01:18 hmmmm so if i say something requires 1 approval and you say 2, we go with 2 01:18 hmmmm more careful is always better 01:19 est31 makes sense 01:19 hmmmm if it's already been merged and another developer objects after the fact, then there's not much you can really do aside from raise your objections, have the original developer fix them, fix them yourself, or if it's too egregious of a problem, revert 01:20 hmmmm any of those three actions require approval though, equal to the amount of approval the original change required 01:21 hmmmm (wait, is the last sentence a good policy?) 01:21 hmmmm it should take less approval to undo a change because it can always be re-done 01:21 hmmmm if there is further disagreement 01:22 hmmmm but we don't want a smaller group of developers engaging in a standoff by reverting everybody's commits 01:22 hmmmm in any case i doubt it would matter since common sense ultimately overrules all 01:22 est31 yes, reverting is no fun 01:23 hmmmm these are just rules, not hard rules, but rules nevertheless, for maintaining some semblance of balance and order 01:23 hmmmm and so others have an idea of what to expect under normal circumstances 01:23 hmmmm without rules everybody would get upset due to mismatched expectations 01:25 hmmmm paramat: yes, that could definitely closed 01:25 hmmmm be closed* 01:25 paramat ok 01:25 paramat will do so 01:26 hmmmm it's just that closing issues that are valid but hard to fix is really bad 01:26 hmmmm if the main cause is a duplicate of another issue, close it for the reason of being a duplicate and link to the original 01:27 hmmmm even if something is hard to fix doesn't mean we won't fix it, and it's always good to keep it in our issue tracker for visibility 01:27 est31 it's just that closing issues that are valid but hard to fix is really bad + 1000000 I hope paramat now changes his behaviour 01:27 paramat ok 01:27 hmmmm the PR might get solved later on if we make a big change like switching graphics engines 01:28 hmmmm also that looks reflects bad on us imho because you're basically telling outsiders that if something is too hard you're not going to consider it 01:28 paramat i welcome any checks on my closes, i may have made mistakes :) 01:29 paramat i'm still looking for the duplicate, if i can't find one i'll re-open it 01:31 hmmmm i think you might be able to get a chronologically ordered list of events a user performed on github 01:31 hmmmm i can do that for commits but iunno how to for everything else like commenting or closing issues 01:33 paramat if the duplicate exists it's not well labelled because searching by label didn't help, it's just a case of going through all 600 01:33 paramat thoughts on old issue #1033 ? 01:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1033 -- Mapgen selection needs info text 01:34 hmmmm mixed thoughts... on one hand i think the vague text and no description encourages users to explore each and form their own opinions 01:34 hmmmm on the other hand i can definitely see how a friendlier ui would have descriptions for each 01:34 hmmmm but actual descriptions that are multiple sentences, not (something in parentheses) like the original author of that issue wrote 01:35 paramat i just think extra text should be elsewhere not in the dropdown 01:35 hmmmm of course 01:35 hmmmm it should be in a text pane to the left of the dropdown 01:35 hmmmm err rather a static text label 01:36 paramat well to avoid annoying most users i think don't display any extra info by default 01:37 paramat i also disagree with marking out 'the default' in case it discourages use of the others 01:38 hmmmm i don't think descriptions would annoy the user if the UI is designed correctly 01:47 paramat re-opened until i find the duplicate (if it exists) 01:48 paramat is it the case that translucency z-sorting would still not work within a mapblock if each mapblock is a made scenenode? i may have misunderstood 02:09 paramat nevermind :) it's not important 02:14 est31 hmmmm, https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9 02:14 est31 if you want to review, you can look at the library commits 02:14 est31 and diff before, and diff after the commits 02:15 est31 and if you want to review the clang-format commit, simply apply clang-format yourself if you dont trust me :) 02:20 hmmmm [09:49 PM] is it the case that translucency z-sorting would still not work within a mapblock if each mapblock is a made scenenode? i may have misunderstood 02:20 hmmmm that is correct 02:21 hmmmm the way to get transparency z-sorting to work correctly (under irrlicht, anyway) is to keep a separate scenenode for each translucent material 02:22 paramat ah i see 02:22 hmmmm switching to one-scenenode-per-mapblock won't do anything to help, but it would allow us to use irrlicht occlusion culling 02:22 hmmmm or at least test it 02:23 est31 and celeron55 would cheer because yet another thing to rebase against 02:23 hmmmm this is why you keep your commits small and focused people 02:24 est31 you want me to split up https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9 ? 02:24 est31 i can split it up into its original 6 commits 02:25 est31 err 7 02:25 hmmmm no 02:25 hmmmm there's no advantage to splitting that change up 02:25 hmmmm something like celeron's 55 file change is a nice candidate for splitting 02:26 hmmmm in any case, I hope you know that putting the result of an if statement body on the same line as the if statement is a huge violation of the minetest code style 02:26 hmmmm just FWIW 02:27 est31 ok, wont do it in minetest code 02:27 hmmmm yeah you said you were looking to change it closer to minetest style... 02:27 hmmmm just an FYI 02:28 est31 ok 02:29 est31 I didn't mean that the goal was to mimic minetest style as much as possible, the goal was rather to mimic my preferences 02:29 est31 I edited it until i liked the style 02:29 betterthanyou710 hi 02:29 hmmmm est31, what do you think about this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3929 02:30 est31 I hope you dont think I'm a horrible person now just because I prefer if on the same line :) 02:30 betterthanyou710 est31 your a core developer right? 02:30 hmmmm i do because you might be hiding something 02:30 betterthanyou710 lol just like batman 02:30 betterthanyou710 dun da da dunnnnnn 02:31 hmmmm if (memcmp(password_hash, stored_hash, 20)) goto success; 02:31 est31 betterthanyou710, yes I am 02:31 hmmmm goto failure; 02:31 est31 hehe 02:31 est31 clang-format would ruthlessly format that however 02:31 hmmmm "WHOOPS" that was a mistake 02:31 betterthanyou710 est31 me and a friend were talking and you haave to be invited to become a core developer right? 02:31 hmmmm RealBadAngel actually pulled something similar to that 02:31 est31 it would make the goto failure on the same line 02:31 betterthanyou710 we made a bet on it xD 02:32 hmmmm if (g_settings->getBool("some_shader_feature_we_agreed_to_not_be_enabled_by_default"); { 02:32 hmmmm ... do stuff here ... 02:32 hmmmm } 02:32 est31 thats mean 02:32 hmmmm he played ignorance 02:35 est31 betterthanyou710, the rules are a bit more complicated, but yes, in the end you get invited on github, by c55: http://dev.minetest.net/Organisation#Assignment 02:35 betterthanyou710 cool 02:35 betterthanyou710 i also wanted to ask will you guys be doing more texture mods and adding shaders? 02:36 betterthanyou710 cuz one of the only things that minecraft has over minetest is textures 02:36 est31 hrmmmm I discovered a style issue 02:36 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9#diff-2f6369328116e9b654242a7597658a48R1011 02:37 est31 especially the line below 02:37 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/2ced546eb1208ac3f47b91afdfbbc1a225520fd9#diff-2f6369328116e9b654242a7597658a48R1012 02:37 est31 I think I will have to tweak the script.... 02:37 est31 but before that, I go to bed 02:38 betterthanyou710 ha same 02:39 betterthanyou710 if u have a answer plz msg it to me 02:39 hmmmm your question is off-topic for this channel 02:40 paramat bbl after omnoms game#1022 02:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1022 -- Default/mapgen: Add upper limits to forest biomes and trees by paramat 02:44 betterthanyou710 sorry hmmmm ill ask on another channel 02:44 kaeza while we're on the topic, VoxelArea is a nice candidate for style cleanup 02:45 hmmmm yeah, it puts a lot of functions way larger than 3 lines into a header file, doesn't it? 02:45 hmmmm speaking of which, util/string.h has a number of offenders there. 02:45 kaeza no, I mean the naming convention 02:45 kaeza all of Minetest is foo.do_something_useful(p1, p2, whatever) 02:46 kaeza VoxelArea is VoxelArea:new{MinEdge=what,MaxEdge=what} 02:46 hmmmm oh you're talking about the lua voxelarea 02:46 kaeza yea 02:46 hmmmm i'd rather not touch it 02:46 kaeza nowhere else is CamelCase used for field names 02:47 kaeza or methods for that matter 02:47 hmmmm you're going to break compatibility and it's just a mirror of the VoxelArea inside the engine 02:47 hmmmm and that's PascalCase, camelCase isLikeThis 02:47 kaeza it shouldn't break compatibility if done right 02:48 hmmmm idk how to do it 02:48 kaeza VoxelArea should really be a function (like ItemStack) 02:48 hmmmm if you can, no problem 02:50 kaeza we should take some time to standardize on the naming conventions for Lua-visible symbols 02:50 hmmmm perhaps 02:50 hmmmm before we just jump in and make everything lower_case_underscore_style i think a vote should be taken to see what people find the most visually pleasing to work with 02:50 kaeza other stuff that really gets on my nerve is that we have register_on_player_whatever, but get_timeofday, or even getvelocity 02:51 kaeza I prefer "PascalCase" for "class" type things and words_with_underscores for fields and methods 02:52 kaeza "class" as in, ItemStack, VoxelArea, perhaps Vector? 02:52 hmmmm sure 02:52 hmmmm make a vote thread about it on the forum even 02:52 hmmmm you want to or should i? 02:53 kaeza my english sucks. could you? :) 02:53 hmmmm that sounds like an excuse 02:54 hmmmm i don't think anybody would be able to tell you were a non-native speaker 02:54 hmmmm from text anyway 02:54 kaeza okay okay, gimme a few mins to come up with something 02:54 hmmmm well ok 03:14 OldCoder kaeza, I will edit, if you like 03:14 OldCoder But I'm sure it will be fine 03:14 OldCoder TBH I had no idea originally of your native language 03:29 sofar :386 03:29 sofar wheps :D 03:38 kaeza hmmmm, PTAL https://gist.github.com/kaeza/072684493564eaabfe0d8f42f965e806 03:38 kaeza Cc OldCoder ^ 03:39 hmmmm as an aside, I like the ItemStack() notation 03:39 hmmmm it's like a constructor 03:40 hmmmm yeah i agree with your proposal 03:41 hmmmm post looks good 03:48 kaeza let's see how long before it gets Godwin'd #3980 03:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3980 -- Standardizing API naming and calling conventions. 04:21 Zeno` brb going to laptop 04:43 Zeno` everything lower_case_underscore_style <--- very annoying to type 04:43 Zeno` i.e. I think get_timeofday is better than get_time_of_day 04:44 Zeno` But I don't really want to get involved in this discussion again hehe 07:20 hmmmm it's consistent with everything else though 07:21 hmmmm i will admit it is pretty annoying to type 09:16 Zeno` yes, for API function names it certainly needs to be consistent 09:16 Obani would be less confusing indeed 12:49 est31 https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/ebdffeb2ab5cd36406308eae72a923df1275ad4b 12:49 est31 okay last chance to say something, i will push in ten minutes 12:50 sfan5 all those formatting changes seem useless 12:51 sfan5 and you're still checking fclose and CryptReleaseContext 12:51 sfan5 fine otherwise 12:56 est31 better one check too much than one too few 18:56 Foghrye4 I'm still waiting for my pull request to be accepted. Or, at least, rejected. So, here is a video: https://youtu.be/vWE3fjOgwIc 19:01 sfan5 give it a little title 19:01 sfan5 time* 19:02 hmmmm only 6 days? 19:03 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc 19:03 sofar Jul 9, 2013 19:03 sofar oldest pending PR 19:03 Foghrye4 Why so slow? 19:05 hmmmm because minetest isn't a full time job for anybody here 19:07 Foghrye4 So, new features will be implemented only in 0.4.14? 19:07 sofar after 19:07 Foghrye4 Even after!? 19:08 sofar yes, 0.4.14 is coming out in a short bit, so after that features can be added to master 19:09 hmmmm this is more of a #minetest topic 19:42 paramat please could devs add their opinions to #3774 ? perhaps it would be good to bring this to a resolution 19:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3774 -- Halo: highlight selected face by RealBadAngel 19:47 hmmmm it honestly seems like a bit too much 20:05 nore hmmmm: yes, but if it is configurable... 20:13 paramat here are my 2 mapgen PRs needed for release #3973 #3974 20:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3973 -- Mgvalleys: Don't let cavegen place biome nodes everywhere by paramat 20:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3974 -- Mgv5: Optimise tunnels, add biome material in entrances by paramat 20:22 paramat nore any opinion on game#543 ? 20:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/543 -- Strengthen obsidian glass by tenplus1 20:29 paramat i might merge #2094 later 20:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2094 -- Fix offset being ignored by inventory bar HUD by rubenwardy 20:31 paramat maybe also #3985 since it's trivial 20:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3985 -- Minimap: revert change from RGBA to Indexed by sofar 20:35 PilzAdam paramat, you can merge #3985 20:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3985 -- Minimap: revert change from RGBA to Indexed by sofar 20:35 paramat ok 20:40 paramat closed #3429 20:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3429 -- Configurable damage screen intensity 22:09 VanessaE hmmmm: as I recall, one of RBA 22:09 VanessaE ...RBA's goals was more eye candy 22:09 VanessaE done in such a way as to be customizable. 22:09 hmmmm don't you love how the ' is right next to the enter key 22:09 VanessaE so I don't see any harm in adding that feature. 22:09 VanessaE no, I hate it :P 22:10 hmmmm i had a keyboard where there was an indentation between the enter key and the ' which prevented such errors 22:10 hmmmm was my favorite 22:10 VanessaE whatever moron it was who decided on that ought to have been shot 22:10 celeron55 best keyboard design features: ' right next to enter; backspace right next to enter 22:10 VanessaE well I have a 3d printer, I suppose I could create a replacement Enter key with a similar indentation 22:10 hmmmm ya in any case 22:11 hmmmm all this stuff should be configurable but look at how many entries there are in minetest.conf.example 22:11 hmmmm just too many 22:11 hmmmm but it's actually quite typical for games to have a lot of configurable options - the nitty gritty options are more hidden though 22:11 VanessaE celeron55: I had one once that was the MOST irritating design ever - a second backspace key occupying half the footprint normally reserved for the spacebar 22:12 hmmmm like you know in the console how they have sl_some_crazy_option = 5 22:12 celeron55 it's going to always be too many and it can't be solved by forcefully removing them; there needs to be some way for a human to manage the too many settings 22:12 PilzAdam hmmmm, we now have a nice GUI for the settings 22:12 hmmmm well those are usually auto-set with an option that encompasses all similar settings 22:12 PilzAdam where it's possible to hide some advanced settings 22:12 hmmmm like a slider control for visual effects 22:12 VanessaE hmmmm: the current GUI works well for that. "basic" stuff first, "Advanced" stuff behind a button 22:12 hmmmm no i'm not talking about hiding most of the advanced settings 22:12 Fixer VanessaE, yeah, designers are nuts those days, well designed classical keyboard is too boring it seems, and we need some more mazohism 22:12 hmmmm i'm talking about better settings configuration design in general 22:12 VanessaE you mean more like a "good, better, best" gradation? 22:12 hmmmm yes 22:13 hmmmm so if you had a Visual Effects slider that you could crank all the way up you'd have RBA's presets 22:13 VanessaE I'm not entirely against such a thing, so long as one can still get into, as you put it, the "nitty gritty" if desired. 22:13 hmmmm and if you really wanted to disable this one option, you can, via the text config file 22:13 hmmmm naw'mean? 22:14 celeron55 you don't really need to touch the text file; just open the advanced settings 22:14 celeron55 but same thing 22:14 VanessaE hmmmm: exactly that. 22:14 hmmmm yea 22:14 hmmmm this is what the standard for AAA games is i think 22:14 hmmmm so okay 22:15 hmmmm i guess my complaint isn't with having too many config options, it's more a matter of presenting all these options to the end user 22:15 VanessaE Fixer: I'd have been more happy with one of those weird split-in-half M$ keyboards :P 22:15 hmmmm in an awkward manner 22:15 VanessaE (but I don't think they existed at the time) 22:15 hmmmm in fact you know something, this is one of my ideas for the mapgen noiseparams config settings that never happened 22:15 VanessaE how do you mean? 22:16 hmmmm you remember a long time ago, I wanted just one mapgen, but all the noise parameters were freely configurable 22:16 VanessaE yes 22:16 hmmmm but that would be too many options, so there'd be a dropdown box where you select one of "flat, forests, plains, oceans, islands" etc. 22:16 hmmmm and that enters the presets of noiseparams for that type of terrain 22:17 hmmmm well like that 22:17 hmmmm except for other config options 22:18 VanessaE I could see checkboxes for oceans, deserts, jungles, and other large-scale map features, though. 22:18 VanessaE but yeah, having some presets would be good 22:19 hmmmm the 'select a checkbox for each desired terrain feature' idea already exists in the form of paramat's not-so-simple flat mapgen 22:19 VanessaE well you know what I meant 22:20 VanessaE I so rarely create new worlds, I don't actually know what the current state of the GUI for it is. 22:22 VanessaE though one thing I had wished for at one time was a "preview" of sorts, not unlike you see in some older games like Micropolis/Sim City 22:22 hmmmm we can still do that 22:22 VanessaE Something simple, like that online thing celeron55 had for "making sense of" perlin params 22:25 hmmmm yeah 22:25 hmmmm i already made something like that, it's just not a part of minetest 22:26 hmmmm also i have a 3d mode: http://i.imgur.com/2l13W0U.png 22:26 VanessaE oh that's nice 22:26 hmmmm that's for figuring out appropriate biome values 22:28 hmmmm i think it's more beneficial in the long run to figuring out how to short circuit some logic in minetest to make it generate and display map faster without entering an actual game 22:28 hmmmm s/to// 22:28 hmmmm i coded this up and then compared to minetest's source and it looks really close to mapblock_mesh.cpp 22:29 VanessaE well, you could produce a bare, false-color terrain maybe. no deco, no trees (well unless it's easy), no lua mapgen hooks, etc 22:30 VanessaE that would certainly short-circuit it 23:43 est31 regarding settings, we could improve i think and make some settings per world 23:43 est31 and allow the user to change those settings 23:43 est31 as well as mods to define new settings 23:43 est31 I do like however how we present the current settings to the users 23:44 VanessaE est31: you're taking after paramat :P 23:44 est31 hah lol 23:44 est31 yeah lets close some issues 23:44 est31 what about #3970 , there are no graphical bugs 23:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3970 -- Graphical bugs when drawing inventory hud 23:44 est31 its a lovely characteristic! 23:45 est31 same for 23:45 est31 #3964 23:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3964 -- lighting glitch 23:45 est31 we must close them all 23:45 est31 592 open issues are too much1 23:45 est31 ! 23:45 est31 xD 23:46 hmmmm i don't get what that last issue is about 23:46 est31 probably they mined, and suddenly there was light 23:46 est31 out of nowhere no torch no anything 23:47 hmmmm oh is that what it is 23:47 hmmmm ahh i see it now, that hole in the ceiling looked like it was connecting the surface to the cave he's in 23:48 hmmmm can't do anything there until he tries the latest version 23:50 est31 yeah its really one of the kind of bugs you dont want 23:50 est31 probably hard to reproduce, etc. 23:50 est31 but still, perhaps there is hope to solve them 23:55 est31 going again 23:55 est31 bye all