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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-03-16

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Time Nick Message
00:11 rubenwardy_ joined #minetest-dev
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00:26 ssieb Fixer: After the inventory mesh change, my inventory pages are really fast.  It used be slow like that.
00:30 Fixer ShadowNinja, "jumping at node edge", what kind of bug was that? i don't remember
00:31 ShadowNinja Fixer: Go up to the edge of a node (on an edge that drops off) and try to jump, the input is ignored.
00:31 Fixer interesting
00:31 ShadowNinja You have to get right up on the edge though.
00:33 Fixer ShadowNinja, made 1 flying block, can jump right on the edge, stable 0.4.13
00:34 Fixer oh wait
00:34 Fixer i see, ok
00:34 Fixer reproduced
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05:11 Hijiri ShadowNinja: if you spam sneak button you can also get the walk sound to play over and over
05:11 Hijiri when you are on the unjumpable edge
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09:12 est31 I'll push this patch in one hour: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/3863#issuecomment-197133987
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12:10 celeron55 client_mapblock_limit is dumb as hell
12:10 celeron55 what is the server supposed to do when the client keeps deleting the blocks that it sends to it?
12:11 celeron55 currently it just sends then again and again and the whole system just works 100% of the time against itself
12:12 celeron55 them*
12:12 celeron55 i now made it so that the client tells the server that value, and now i can't walk anywhere because the server refuses to send blocks to the client because it knows they would go over the limit
12:13 celeron55 this is wasteful as fuck
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12:17 celeron55 well i know what i will do
12:17 est31 celeron55, before it was a memory leak
12:17 celeron55 but this is dumb anyway
12:18 est31 you explored the map fast enough, you hit the memory limit of your CPU
12:18 celeron55 i'm going to float up the value told to the server based on a new heuristic value collected by the mapblock draw list generation
12:19 est31 you mean meshgen?
12:19 celeron55 nope
12:19 celeron55 soon nobody can understand how this works 8))
12:19 est31 xD
12:20 celeron55 mapblock draw list generation is a thing that exist that is needed but which nobody knows nothing about except me
12:20 celeron55 exists*
12:20 est31 its part of farmap?
12:20 celeron55 no
12:20 est31 secret part of minetest lol
12:21 celeron55 i'm improving it otherwise too now though
12:22 est31 fine
12:22 est31 i gotta go again
12:23 est31 will push that change later this day
12:23 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/3863#issuecomment-197133987
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13:25 dfelinto_vnc does anyone know how complicated would it be to have camera roll support in minetest?
13:25 dfelinto_vnc it seems that part of the problem is that irrlicht itself is only using camera pitch and yaw (if I got it right)
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14:02 celeron55 so, the next problem is that 5000 is good enough for only a draw range of like 160
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14:02 celeron55 5000 is the current default and there's no user-friendly way to change it, and no automation to change it
14:03 VanessaE how much RAM would it cost if you, say, bumped it up to 25K/
14:03 VanessaE ?
14:03 celeron55 i don't think a static value like this makes any sense
14:03 VanessaE hm
14:04 VanessaE well remember the reason it had a static measure is OOM crashes before, as I recall
14:04 VanessaE (I'm not opposed to just using however much it needs, though)
14:04 celeron55 i think it chould be calculated from the user's draw range
14:04 celeron55 and there could possibly be a setting to increase it beyond that
14:05 celeron55 i guess it could be this exact setting
14:05 celeron55 it should be just be automatically overridden to a higher value if that is needed for rendering how much the thing is set to render
14:06 VanessaE problem is, you have to account for the user gallivanting around the map, so view range alone won't do, I think.
14:06 VanessaE but I agree in principle.
14:06 celeron55 of course it will do
14:07 celeron55 what does that word even mean
14:07 VanessaE ?
14:07 celeron55 if you mean like teleporting, then maybe a value of 2x what works for hanging around at a single-location
14:08 VanessaE oh, nono.  I mean running around like crazy, going all over the place (not even teleporting).  pretty common in multiplayer servers
14:08 dfelinto_vnc are you talking about culling?
14:08 celeron55 that's the issue i am solving
14:08 celeron55 not something i am breaking
14:08 VanessaE ok.
14:08 VanessaE I'll just leave it to you then
14:09 dfelinto_vnc is there a quick place I can hack to bump it to 10x?
14:09 * dfelinto_vnc wants to understand this part of the code better
14:11 VanessaE client_mapblock_limit = xxxx
14:11 VanessaE (if that still works; my engine is outdated)
14:11 dfelinto_vnc thanks
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16:05 nore sofar: btw, for the beds, I was able to put an attached node there using a mesecons piston
16:05 nore but I would like to be able to attach nodes to the sides of the beds (like signs for example)
16:05 * nore is still wondering on how to do it
16:20 sofar nore: just like doors it's pretty much impossible unless we make some sort of API for it
16:20 nore yeah :/
16:21 nore either we would need something like multinode support
16:21 nore or horrible hacks
16:33 VanessaE secondary_nodes_sides = {xp=true, yn=nil, zn=true, ...}
16:33 VanessaE seems reasonable to me anyway
16:34 VanessaE (xp = x positive, yn = y negative, etc)
16:35 VanessaE seems to me that if a node is placed with one of those flags, there ought to be callbacks attached to those nodes, e.g. is_secondary = func(pos,dir) or some such
16:36 VanessaE that way they're still distinct nodes.  problem is you'd need the secondaries to have some sort of back-link to their "root" nodes for easier destruct
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16:37 VanessaE that last part would not work though for mods that have a common "placeholder" airlike node used to fill the space taken by the "root" node
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16:40 VanessaE the only other way would be for the engine to treat collision box data (or the model itself) as an indicator that a node space is already filled
16:40 VanessaE and that could be...complicated.
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16:45 sofar I wouldn't necessarily implement it that way
16:46 VanessaE it's just the first thing that came to mind
16:46 sofar I was thinking of looking into something like an on_place_onto() callback that would return a modified pointed_thing
16:47 VanessaE on place ONTO?
16:47 sofar on_place_pointing()
16:48 sofar that could then be called by builtin or core to receive a different pointed_thing.under and pointed_thing.above
16:48 sofar and then the normal core code can resume
16:49 sofar it would be a very minimal method. the callback would have to do some math though to properly determine where the player is looking
16:54 nore sofar: that looks like a good idea
16:54 sofar nore: and doable, too
16:54 nore maybe the callback could pass the intersection of the player view with the collision box
16:54 VanessaE for placing a node I guess that works
16:54 nore that would avoid a lot of math
16:54 VanessaE but what about destroying a node?
16:55 VanessaE you can't even begin to rely on player yaw then
16:56 sofar core.on_dig_node wouldn't call it
16:56 sofar it wouldn't need to, anyway
16:57 VanessaE well I'm talking about the case for beds when, for example, a piston or nodebreaker or even just a growing tree somehow destroys half.  the engine should detect that and destroy (or drop) the other piece(s).
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16:59 sofar that part ... making the secondary node an "attached" node that drops nothing would already fix that
16:59 sofar can't believe I've not thought of that before, either
16:59 VanessaE how would that work?  "attached" nodes only matter if they are hanging from the wall
17:00 sofar hang bed tops off bed bottoms?
17:00 VanessaE but they'd still be sitting on the ground
17:00 sofar anyway, that issue I've fixed
17:00 VanessaE I get where you're going though
17:00 sofar PR pending, don't think it's merged tho
17:04 sofar I don't think that PR will miss the release, it's too trivial
17:04 sofar actually, that part is already in
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18:30 Fixer https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/940 confirmed by other person
18:34 everamzah #game941
18:35 everamzah game#914 ?
18:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/914 -- Option to disable bone drops by tenplus1
18:35 everamzah heya!
18:35 everamzah https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/941 *takes a walk*
18:50 sofar thanks
18:56 Fixer sofar, remember your "Allow digging of protected doors with "protection_bypass"" ? now i wonder if steel trapdoors are affected by this too, will test it later.
18:56 sofar I checked the code, it's not
18:56 sofar but, please test
18:56 Fixer ok
18:56 * sofar puts QA hat on Fixer
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19:33 Fixer wooden sign is not diggable by mese axe? o_0
19:36 sofar it no longer is dig_immediate
19:36 sofar try digging longer
19:39 Fixer nope, it is a buuug
19:40 Fixer damned, another two issues :/
19:40 Fixer steel one is fine though
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19:52 Fixer sofar, wooden one is only diggable by axes
19:53 sofar so it needs to become oddly_diggable_by_hand = 1
19:53 sofar can you try that?
19:53 sofar I gotta run afk a bit
19:53 Fixer don't work
19:54 sofar oddly_breakable_by_hand = 1 in groups, sorry
19:55 Fixer another bug about the bad :S
19:56 Fixer sofar, steel trapdoors are ok btw
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21:01 nore < VanessaE> well I'm talking about the case for beds when, for example, a piston or nodebreaker or even just a growing tree somehow destroys half.  the engine should detect that and destroy (or drop) the other piece(s). <-- according to me, tree growing should call nodeupdate
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21:01 nore so that falling nodes fall and attached nodes are dropped, if needed
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21:25 Fixer i see that obsidian is distractable by tnt now, is this correct behaviour?
21:28 est31 using only a viewing range based check is dumb
21:28 est31 you go to a place, you come back
21:28 est31 but the server has to re-send the area because it got deleted because it was outside of the viewing range
21:29 celeron55 how i did it now was that the setting which defaults to 5000 is used unless it's too low for the viewing range
21:30 est31 it should be something like if (inside viewing range) { don't delete } else if (count limit exceeded) { delete }
21:30 celeron55 so assuming 5000 was somehow chosen wisely, then it all is wise now
21:30 est31 paramat chose it i think
21:31 est31 how do you calculate the number of the blocks inside the viewing range?
21:31 celeron55 basically just double it and cube it up
21:31 celeron55 works fine
21:31 est31 ah okay
21:31 est31 yeah thats the maximum then
21:32 Fixer celeron55, i do have memory problems with new farmap, if you talking about it
21:32 celeron55 this isn't about farmap
21:32 Fixer ok
21:32 est31 celeron55, your key privs are needed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3865
21:44 sofar celeron55: since I can't transfer to you directly, I've transferred it to your personal account, you can then transfer it to the minetest org
21:44 sofar since I can't transfer to *minetest* directly...
21:48 celeron55 i wonder when and where is it going to tell me about it
21:50 sofar e-mail
21:50 sofar and then you have to click the link
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21:57 paramat celeron55 we jointly chose 5000 because that would use 2GB of memory
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22:01 Fixer cpu usage is quite high with farmap, up to 80%, in default mt it is closer to 30-40%.
22:10 est31 okay last chance to say no, will merge this fix in 10 mins: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​3132bcb3732df51c08c8b2f34781e463cd94fe7f
22:10 paramat 2GB seems a lot for 5000 blocks though, and 5000 is not much world
22:10 est31 i have been announcing this for the whole day now :)
22:10 paramat looks
22:11 celeron55 whether 5000 blocks takes 2GB largely depends on what they contain
22:11 est31 yeah
22:11 celeron55 could be more like 100MB or less in another case
22:13 paramat it was chosen for average mgv7 with it's massive forests
22:13 est31 the limiting is not perfect, i originally wanted to use the real memory demands for each block
22:13 Fixer massive forests are no go for 32 bit builds
22:14 est31 but i didn't find a way to measure it
22:14 celeron55 sofar: done
22:14 paramat i noticed that limit wasn't acting on farmap, luckily. will farmeshes be limited or are they super-compact? i didn't notice much memory use even with a huge view
22:15 Fixer paramat, try recent farmap, it just eats memory like crazy
22:15 est31 the problem about farmap is the big texture cache. no?
22:16 est31 well not problem
22:16 paramat yes i'll be testing again
22:16 est31 s/problem/memory demanding part/
22:16 est31 so store each texture in each brightness 4 times
22:16 celeron55 est31: it actually really doesn't eat a lot of memory
22:17 celeron55 back then it used much higher resolutions by default
22:17 sofar celeron55: cool, thanks.
22:18 celeron55 farmap's memory consumption mostly consists of the meshes on the client side
22:18 est31 do the core devs have write permissions for the repo ? https://github.com/orgs/minetest/​teams/team-minetest/repositories
22:19 celeron55 just like mapblock memory consumption, in fact
22:20 celeron55 est31: now they do
22:20 est31 fine
22:22 celeron55 i guess farmap needs some kind of thresholds for unloading stuff up to completely unloading stuff
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22:23 celeron55 it's not my priority now because i'm finding so many other issues in the PR after i started beating more speed out of it
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22:45 paramat ShadowNinja some simple reviews for you game#932 game#935 game#941 game#931
22:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/932 -- Allow digging of protected doors with "protection_bypass" by sofar
22:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/935 -- Walls: Don't connect to group:cracky by sofar
22:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/941 -- Rename argument to priv check by everamzah
22:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/931 -- Re-export character.b3d without texture linkage. by sofar
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23:04 paramat any approval for #3862 ? simple review
23:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3862 -- Mgv7: Limit pseudorandom caves to surface mapchunk or below by paramat
23:39 Fixer paramat, "In stable 0.4.13 it was breakable by hands, wooden tools/swords (and stronger), except of hoes"
23:39 paramat wooden sign?
23:39 Fixer paramat, yes, wooden sign
23:40 Fixer checked it few minutes ago in stable one

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