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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-03-15

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Time Nick Message
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08:06 est31 will push this fix in 30 mins: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​2607b97b4f2b41767d7a010e9376d3e7f578cb71
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08:21 paramat ok
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12:37 paramat nore sfan5 when you have time game#925 game#925
12:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/925 -- Default: Recolour desert cobble to be consistent with desert stone by paramat
12:37 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/925 -- Default: Recolour desert cobble to be consistent with desert stone by paramat
12:39 paramat oops game#924
12:39 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/924 -- Doors: Update glass door item textures to new design by paramat
12:41 nore est31 paramat ShadowNinja if you have some time, I'd like some feedback on #3861
12:41 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3861 -- Remove chat escape sequences from chat messages, for future colored chat. by Ekdohibs
12:42 nore (I'd like to get it merged before 0.4.14, as it is fairly simple and is only for future compatibility)
12:42 paramat looking
12:43 sfan5 paramat: 925: maybe keep the ligher shade of the "lines" inbetween
12:45 paramat looks like the colourisation darkened the mortar a little
12:45 sfan5 approved game#924
12:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/924 -- Doors: Update glass door item textures to new design by paramat
12:45 paramat ok
12:45 nore paramat: approved game#924 too
12:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/924 -- Doors: Update glass door item textures to new design by paramat
12:45 paramat thanks
12:46 paramat ok i can try brightening the texture a little
12:46 nore got to go now though, will look at 925 later
12:46 sfan5 no the rest is fine
12:47 sfan5 just copy the lighter part from the old texture to the new one
12:47 paramat ok i'll try that
12:47 paramat good idea
12:51 paramat game#758 ?
12:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/758 -- Add sounds for steel doors. by sofar
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12:56 est31 nore, looking
13:03 est31 sfan5, what are minetest's "market statistics"?
13:03 sfan5 how would i know
13:03 est31 version distribution
13:03 est31 of masterlist
13:03 est31 you still run it, right?
13:03 sfan5 i won't do some full stats now
13:04 sfan5 but i can take a quick look at the versions now
13:04 est31 ok, thats enough
13:11 Fixer est31, client or server?
13:11 est31 client
13:11 est31 server distribution can be done by me
13:11 est31 I can simply wget the list
13:11 Fixer est31, rubenwardy has the stats
13:11 Fixer somewhat limited but...
13:11 est31 ?
13:11 est31 ah yeah of his server
13:11 Fixer est31, http://minetest.rubenwardy.com​/stats/graph_ctf_versions.png
13:12 Fixer est31, http://minetest.rubenwardy.com​/stats/graph_ctf_platforms.png
13:12 sfan5 9804 0.4.10
13:12 sfan5 73233 0.4.11
13:12 sfan5 9234 0.4.12
13:12 sfan5 69099 0.4.13
13:12 sfan5 66 0.4.9
13:12 sfan5 4345 gUnknown
13:12 est31 thanks
13:13 sfan5 (last 10 days, only GET /list)
13:13 est31 are there no different clients?
13:13 sfan5 yes
13:13 est31 like mobile or so
13:13 Fixer whats up with 0.4.11?
13:13 est31 or are they only small number
13:13 sfan5 their versions look like cgbuildahouse/1.0 or BuildCraft/2.0.1
13:14 sfan5 - - [05/Mar/2016:14:00:09 +0000] "GET /list?proto_version_min=13&proto_version_max=26 HTTP/1.1" 200 172816 "-" "Freeworld/2.0" "-"
13:14 sfan5 not useful
13:14 sfan5 what might be easier is parsing the proto versions
13:14 est31 yup
13:14 sfan5 lemme do that
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13:14 est31 if you have the time
13:15 sfan5 i don't do it by hand
13:15 est31 but still you have to create the awk/sed/whatever command pipe
13:15 sfan5 i can reuse the old one
13:16 est31 lots of sort | uniq -c
13:16 sfan5 nah
13:16 sfan5 % tail -n 1580000 /usr/local/nginx/logs/serverlist.log | grep "GET /list" | LC_ALL=C uniq -w 16 | sed -rn 's|.*proto_version_max=([0-9]+).*|\1|p' | LC_ALL=C sort | LC_ALL=C uniq -c
13:16 sfan5 79247 24
13:16 sfan5 101669 25
13:16 sfan5 311355 26
13:16 sfan5 91728 27
13:16 sfan5 128 28
13:16 est31 what about those who dont pass proto_version_max
13:17 sfan5 ignored
13:18 est31 they are interesting
13:18 est31 even total number would be enough
13:18 est31 wc -l
13:18 est31 then i can calculate the rest
13:18 sfan5 wc -l of what
13:19 est31 tail -n 1580000 /usr/local/nginx/logs/serverlist.log | grep "GET /list" | LC_ALL=C uniq -w 16 | wc -l
13:19 sfan5 892223
13:20 est31 thanks
13:20 est31 thats alot
13:20 sfan5 <that> - <sum of version distrib stuff> should be the amount of non-Minetest clients
13:21 est31 older non minetest clients have sent it too
13:21 est31 its a pretty recent patch
13:21 est31 one of my first :)
13:22 est31 308096
13:23 sfan5 non-mt clients?
13:23 est31 ah
13:23 est31 older minetest clients
13:23 est31 not non minetest clients lol
13:24 est31 you quoted above a request with proto_version_max
13:24 sfan5 yeah
13:31 est31 sfan5, nore your opinion on #3854 ?
13:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3854 -- Drop support for < 25 protocol servers by default
13:32 paramat so what would be a reasonable guess at current number of MT users?
13:32 est31 what is an mt user
13:32 est31 is it sb who has downloaded one of our official binaries
13:32 sfan5 est31: how many servers would that currently affect?
13:32 est31 9
13:33 est31 out of 132 i think
13:33 est31 there is a "study" linked in the issue
13:33 Fixer 9 with players or without?
13:34 sfan5 ok
13:34 sfan5 i think this should wait for a bit
13:35 paramat ahh sb == somebody, i wondered who you keep referring too heh
13:36 Fixer me too
13:41 est31 one of the servers has 0.4.7, six have 0.4.12 and one runs 0.4.12-FozLand and two run 0.4.12-dev
13:41 est31 while one of the two servers which have 0.4.12-dev has proto v24 and one has v25
13:41 est31 otherwise it wouldnt add up
13:42 est31 cant tell the names
13:42 est31 or well i can
13:42 nore est31: about #3611, with it we don't need to do a protocol bump if we want to add new escape sequences
13:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3611 -- Don't pass non-const references to collision methods by est31
13:43 est31 that's a point
13:43 nore else, we would need to bump every time
13:43 nore (oops, that was 3861)
13:43 est31 yeah
13:43 nore anyway, gtg again :/
13:43 est31 well, I've +1ed it
13:43 est31 bye
13:44 est31 nore, do you +1 it too
13:44 est31 then it can go in :)
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13:56 est31 the 9 legacy servers are: "LLM II (testing)", "The Sea is My Life", "AKIBA", "Mundo Medieval en Espa\u00f1ol", "CreativePlaceOriginal", "Krondor", "DTAmedia Minetest server", "B52's Hot lava serveur dedi\u00e9 FR", "Eatlama's EC2 Server"
13:56 est31 dunno whether they have lots of users
13:56 est31 but yeah it would probably make sense to wait a bit
13:56 est31 we shouldn't ruin the day for the server owners :)
13:57 est31 and if we wait a bit, perhaps the 0.4.12 people update
13:57 est31 okay
13:57 est31 I will update the PR
13:58 est31 and make it not disable it by default
13:58 est31 but enable it by default
13:58 est31 then it can go in, and people who dont want to connect to those servers can simply flip the switch
14:03 Fixer you can also make a topic about those servers
14:10 Fixer btw, why not add contacts field in server announce? that will contain some contact info, like email
14:10 est31 nah, its nice enough that they make servers
14:10 est31 no need to stalk them
14:11 Fixer hehe
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15:16 paramat sfan5 updated game#925 to have mortar unchanged
15:16 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/925 -- Default: Recolour desert cobble to be consistent with desert stone by paramat
15:18 sfan5 paramat: good to merge
15:18 paramat ok
15:20 paramat will merge games 913 922 924 925 in 20mins
15:21 sfan5 when was the release date for .14 again?
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15:30 kilbith i'd like game 906 to be merged right now. thanks.
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15:35 paramat sfan5 freeze on roughly 20th March, but is flexible
15:36 paramat hm that's soon, probably have to delay freeze a little
15:36 kilbith beware if it's too flexible we'll never get a release soon
15:36 est31 sfan5, what about this patch: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3855
15:36 est31 nah, we have lots of time
15:36 paramat indeed
15:36 est31 idk when the release deadline for ubuntu 16.10 is
15:37 est31 but its still some months
15:37 est31 unrelated to that, it would be cool to have a release before may :)
15:38 kilbith ubuntu froze the packages months ago afaik
15:38 paramat sfan5 any thoughts on game#906 ? it can probably be merged
15:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/906 -- Add Flint and Flint-and-Steel (producing fire) by kilbith
15:40 est31 kilbith, 16.10 not 16.04
15:40 est31 we already missed that :)
15:40 kilbith ah, misread
15:40 est31 by a long time
15:40 est31 for a package update to go from debian testing to debian unstable, it has to be at least 4 weeks old I think
15:41 est31 so if we say it takes one week for the debian packager to bother, we need 5 weeks until the ubuntu people first can consider updating their package
15:41 kilbith fedora might have 0.4.14, they're more flexible
15:41 est31 and then it still needs time
15:41 kilbith i mean for fedora 24
15:41 est31 ok
15:42 est31 at least they wont ship wayland by default
15:42 kilbith yep
15:42 est31 wayland is not ready at all
15:42 paramat ok i'll merge game 906 too
15:42 kilbith last time i checked the camera wasn't spinning anymore on moving the cursor
15:42 kilbith on XWayland
15:43 est31 it wasn't?
15:43 est31 interesting
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15:43 kilbith the behavior has changed but it's still jerk
15:43 est31 i have a pretty outdated wayland version
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15:44 est31 well either it works or it does not work
15:44 kilbith i'm on arch with latest version
15:44 Samson1 oops!  Sorry!
15:44 sfan5 est31: 3855 reviewed
15:45 est31 thanks
15:45 sfan5 paramat: +1 for game906
15:46 paramat ok
15:46 paramat 'two approvals' can be used for 3+ approvals, no need to remove it
15:47 sfan5 i expected you to merge the pull right now
15:47 est31 paramat, you are native speaker
15:47 est31 which way is better: "Disabling this option will better protect your password."
15:48 paramat i will in a moment
15:48 est31 or "Disabling this option will protect your password better"
15:48 paramat hm
15:49 paramat first one
15:49 sfan5 wait what
15:49 sfan5 isn't the word order wrong on the first one?
15:49 sfan5 or maybe not wrong, but it seems unnatural to me
15:49 srifqi will protect your password better (?)
15:50 paramat well both are ok, first one is a more fancy use of english
15:51 paramat even though it looks a bit weird
15:52 paramat maybe '.. will protect your password more'
15:53 paramat the fancy first one may be less clear to non-native speakers
15:54 srifqi agreed
15:55 paramat so yeah second with 'more'
15:56 everamzah "Disabling this option will protector your password more betterer"
15:56 kilbith lol
15:56 VanessaE "better" is more appropriate than "more" here.
15:57 est31 https://xkcd.com/1133/ xD
15:57 VanessaE heh
15:58 srifqi "Disabling this option will protect your password better."
15:58 est31 VanessaE, better with "first" order or with second
15:58 VanessaE the second way.
15:59 VanessaE (works for the first too, but the grammar looks weird there, even if it's correct)
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16:10 est31 well idk
16:10 est31 we have two people who think the second one is better, one who thinks the first is better
16:10 est31 all native speakers admit that the first looks weird
16:10 est31 so lets take the second
16:11 est31 and merge the patch
16:11 kilbith UK english != US english
16:11 kilbith but in general UK one is cleaner
16:11 kilbith it seems
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16:14 paramat yeah second with better is ok
16:15 paramat now merging to game
16:15 everamzah oh neat i didn't know about this one: http://english.stackexchange.com/
16:18 est31 there is one for german too
16:30 est31 well my opinion on flint and steel is that I really like the fake_fire mod
16:30 est31 i mean, you can place fire anywhere without it affecting your building
16:30 paramat merged
16:30 est31 and it does not go out after some time
16:31 everamzah there is basic_flame, permanent_flame and perhaps there could be a fake_flame too
16:31 est31 idk perhaps one could make crafting "permanent fire flint" harder
16:32 est31 also note that many servers are allergic to fire
16:32 est31 they disable lava buckets bc of that
16:32 est31 but well they will adapt
16:32 everamzah or use something like fireguard by indriApollo, which makes privs for their usage
16:33 est31 only admins can fire-grief?
16:33 est31 thats cool
16:34 est31 i really like that
16:34 est31 you know, kids joining servers and being nice and so on if the admin is on
16:34 paramat nore sfan5 game#917 would be good, added to milestone
16:34 est31 trying to convince them to give them the fire priv
16:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/917 -- Unlink character.png from b3d export by stujones11
16:34 est31 then when admin is offline they threaten to burn everyone
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16:35 * everamzah wonders whether fire spreads in protected areas by default
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16:37 est31 yes it does
16:39 everamzah of course, yes, makes sense
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16:50 sofar I'm gonna write a filter for '{ ' and call it "the paramat filter"
16:51 paramat heh
16:51 est31 big trouble?
16:51 sofar it's just muscle memory that I'm typing "{ "
16:53 paramat ok i'm pushing freeze back to 22 March (night before fullmoon), one week from now, but still flexible
16:54 sofar tbh I think this release is going really well. the list of open things is definitely down to the more obscure items
16:54 paramat i still want to attempt a fix for lighting bugs, will be tough
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17:36 paramat #3857 back later
17:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3857 -- Mgv7 large pseudorandom caves bright at chunk borders when above water level
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17:37 Obani paramat, will you make a floatting islands mapgen some day ? :D
17:37 Obani ok
17:45 sofar Obani: he already has (floatlands)
17:45 Obani sofar, core side ?
17:47 sofar ah, no, that would be interesting tho
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19:26 Fixer btw, protection bypass allows to open/close steel doors, but not remove them, on the other hand, i can remove owned chests (but not doors)
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19:29 paramat duh wrong link, here it is #3862
19:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3862 -- Mgv7: Limit pseudorandom caves to surface mapchunk or below by paramat
19:31 paramat Obani i'm now adding floatlands to this https://github.com/paramat/minetest/tree/rivergen
19:34 paramat it would be easy to add floatlands to mgv7 as an option, i've already done it once as an experiment
19:35 sofar I'd love floatlands if it used normal blocks....
19:36 paramat you mean standard stone and biomes?
19:38 sofar right
19:38 Fixer sofar, incoming!11 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/929
19:38 Fixer far map PR has some glorious code
19:39 sofar I love our edge case testers
19:39 sofar these guys would kill our QA department
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19:40 paramat http://i.imgur.com/sVnvQr0.png here i was testing towers to get up there (mgv7)
19:40 Fixer I have worst case scenario superbuggy Just-Test spawn copy, load up in usual minetest, horrible stutters, you can torture terrorists with it, now, load up MT with farmap PR (farmap disabled), and it is gloriously smooth
19:41 Fixer i was requesting something like that for a long time, could be at least part seperated to seperate PR to include faster?
19:41 sofar paramat: FYI if you set active_block_mgmt_interval to 0.2 and start flying around you'll get the smoothest map loading experience *ever*
19:41 Obani paramat, those look great ! Just as I imagined the thing :o
19:42 paramat http://i.imgur.com/GlmGYpV.png
19:42 Obani Yeah right
19:43 Obani Also would it be a mapgen by itself or an "add-on" ?
19:43 Obani I would love to see a complete mapgen made of these :D
19:44 Obani (is that meru mountain on the first pic ?)
19:44 paramat mgv7 can already create floatlands with custom noise params, but the mountains become extreme too
19:45 paramat a floatland-only mapgen is possible
19:45 paramat not meru, just mgv7 terrain stretched upwards at a point
19:45 sfan5 wouldn't it be easier to disable the normal terrain in mgv7?
19:46 sofar can we combine a normal mgv7 noise set under ~1000 with a different set above ?
19:47 paramat my experiment reuses the 3D mountain noise to create the floatlands so no additional noises needed
19:50 Fixer feel the difference: https://i.imgur.com/3EdBMkg.png (default), https://i.imgur.com/bxQRWU0.png (farmap PR)
19:50 paramat so an option added to mgv7 is easy and no slower. the main problem is how to get up there
19:51 paramat wow much smoother
19:51 Fixer paramat, hugely smoother
19:51 paramat after release we should work on adding farmap
19:52 Fixer paramat, it has a bug with slower map gen over time, but it is very smooth in all situations
19:52 Fixer that what i was asking for long ago
19:52 Fixer and it is already developed by celeron
19:52 Fixer so that pain in the *** with stutters should go away
19:53 sofar Fixer: try the interval settings patch as well
19:55 Fixer sofar, i can try it but i doubt that it fixes that problem
19:55 sofar helps make mapgen and block loading much more smooth
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19:55 paramat anyway yes i like that ABM interval PR
19:56 Fixer sofar, default minetest loads blocks in crappy way making a big stutter, celerons PR somehow smooth it out
19:56 sofar Fixer: that's because it's only done every 2 seconds, my patch makes it tunable
19:56 sofar it'll help, try it
19:56 Fixer sofar, and default is 2 sec?
19:56 sofar active_block_mgmt_interval
19:56 sofar with my PR patch
19:57 sofar set it to e.g. 0.2
19:57 Fixer sigh
19:57 Fixer let me compile it
19:57 sofar then scoot around flying to force mapgen/emerge
19:57 Fixer sofar, noo, wait, it lags hugely just on already generated block looong ago
19:58 Fixer and on mapgen
19:58 Fixer and just on load
20:00 Fixer anyway, celeron kinda fixed it in farmap PR, it is server + client, it will not help to play smoother on nonpatched servers
20:01 paramat wooo 5500 commits
20:01 celeron55 i wonder if the farmap PR should be merged with the farmap part being disabled by default
20:01 celeron55 the reworked map sending code is probably worth it
20:02 Fixer reworked map sending code, yes, this is a big deal
20:02 Fixer i see the difference, it is huge
20:02 Fixer on that j-t copy, before: hardly unplayable, after: close to excellent
20:02 celeron55 i don't care about the smoothness, but it's a bit more reliable and more maintainable
20:03 Fixer i care because i play it of course
20:03 celeron55 and it reacts somewhat faster to player movement
20:03 Fixer you can imagine my eyes bleed with 30 fps + stutters, that can cause headache ._.
20:03 celeron55 that kind of stutter is horrible of course
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20:05 Fixer only problem is map chunks generate slowly over time? even with high v_range and walking forward I noticed that it starts to generate slower and closer to me, far map was disabled
20:05 Fixer restart makes it fast again, smoothness is not affected
20:08 celeron55 well it prioritizes mapblocks differently
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20:09 Fixer but yes, it will be nice to have it merged with far_map disabled
20:10 paramat merged for 0.4.14? we should consider it
20:11 Fixer only problem i've encountered with farmap itself is weird mix of farmap blocks with detailed blocks (in some weird ways) and sometimes slight blink on farmap to detail (possible to smooth transition somehow?)
20:12 celeron55 i don't know if this is the full explanation to that but up to certain distance it will load mapblocks behind the player, and it doesn't have this particular conditional: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/src/clientiface.cpp#L299
20:12 celeron55 that conditional is known to cause sea floors to never generate or be sent to clients
20:12 celeron55 there's an issue about it but i don't know the id
20:12 Fixer farmap blocks can be visually closer than detailed, and blink happens when farmap bl goes to detailed* / sry for bad explanation
20:13 Fixer i've heared smth about that long ago
20:13 Fixer someone asked about not generated ocean floor
20:13 Fixer valleys mapgen got up to -63 deepness
20:15 Fixer i found a downside with new sliding down chat window, it hides coordinates and i need to use brain power to memorize it in gameplay and it could be tricky if situation is hot
20:15 paramat ah yes the way dark stuff is neglected
20:17 Fixer paramat, i'm still spawn in some trees on close to new git btw
20:17 paramat mgv5 oceans go down to -128
20:17 sofar FWIW https://youtu.be/WLO-Mn4DcOs
20:17 paramat i spawn inside trees too
20:17 paramat if in doubt, punch!
20:18 Fixer i know
20:19 paramat nice video
20:20 sofar it's not even available in 1080p yet, not sure why
20:21 paramat terrain is cute in low res
20:21 sofar yeah, it's very nice
20:23 Obani I don't understand whatt's just happening in this video
20:23 sofar random seed, was lucky to get some nice diversity
20:23 paramat apparently meshgen is slower than mapgen, so with farmap-only meshes it seems possible to generate world faster
20:23 sofar Obani: farmap is generating terrain
20:24 Obani Yes but
20:24 Obani Why is it low res like that ?
20:24 sofar that's what farmap does
20:24 Fixer sofar, i get lua out of memory error with "far_map_generate = true"
20:24 nrzkt sofar, sorry but horrible :)
20:24 sofar it presents far stuff as low res blocks
20:24 sofar nrzkt: hah, it's taste, I suppose
20:25 sofar nrzkt: horrible far map, or horrible camera controls/video technique?
20:25 sofar Fixer: I don't understand how lua is involved in farmap, afaik it isn't
20:25 sofar Fixer: any mods?
20:25 nrzkt graphism are horrible :)
20:25 nrzkt it's just ugly :(
20:26 Fixer sofar, iirc it said something about abm, maybe it generates a loooot of blocks that overload lua with those abm functions and stuff
20:26 sofar hmmm, that would suggest your machine can't keep up CPU wise
20:29 Fixer sofar, default mods
20:29 Fixer sofar, actually i managed to get Lua OOM error after walking in default singleplayer on valleys for 8 hrs, yes, really
20:30 sofar nrzkt: graphism? I don't understand
20:31 nrzkt the render is just ugly, it's not regular, don't reflect an idea about world, create big volumes :(
20:31 sofar ok
20:31 Fixer it reflects for me perfectly fine, very close to real blocks
20:32 paramat in proper use it's only meant for very distant stuff
20:32 Fixer yes
20:32 nrzkt paramat, very distant = ?
20:33 sofar beyond visual_range
20:33 sofar e.g. 150+ nodes. or whatever your range is set to
20:33 sofar I like it
20:33 nrzkt if you have a low machine with 100 nodes it will be just... ugly
20:34 nrzkt sorry but textures doesn't reflect reality and the world is transformed and doesn't reflect reality.
20:35 celeron55 i hate it that people make videos where they fly 10 nodes from the farmap geometry
20:35 celeron55 it's not meant to be used in that way
20:36 sofar didn't mean to ... just wanted to demonstrate how fast it can generate terrain in a new map
20:36 celeron55 it's pretty close to reality in natural terrain especially with large-scale mapgens like v7 and watershed
20:36 paramat http://i.imgur.com/tqyJMKN.png here it switches at 330 nodes
20:36 celeron55 player-built structures is where it truly gets ugly
20:36 sofar maybe I should do an exploration video where I walk a regular pace
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20:37 celeron55 anyway, i know that some people absolutely hate it
20:37 celeron55 that's why it's completely disableable
20:37 nrzkt i don't think player building huge towers want to see those modified by farmap
20:38 nrzkt farmap is a good idea, but rendering is just ugly, maybe this could be improved
20:38 paramat heh
20:38 paramat it has to be simple to work
20:39 celeron55 it can't render it any better given the amount of geometry and data it has to work with
20:39 nore well, it is configurable and it can be improved later anyway
20:39 nore so I like it
20:39 nrzkt the main problem is MT is a game, more than a simple engine. Rendering should be non agressive for eye
20:39 celeron55 i haave tried what it does when the geometry is 1:1 to nodes; what happens is that rendering the farmap gets just as slow as rendering actual regular mapblocks
20:39 celeron55 -a
20:40 celeron55 maybe some 10% faster but really nothing useful
20:40 nore nrzkt: disable it then
20:40 nrzkt maybe add aliasing make it more smoother
20:40 celeron55 RBA suggested blurring it
20:40 celeron55 i'm not implementing that
20:40 nore celeron55: what do you mean, 1:1 to nodes?
20:40 celeron55 if someone does add such an option, then fine
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20:41 Fixer I've played it on NYC map and it can look crude at times but it gives very nice idea about environment
20:41 nrzkt nore, and if i want to see a beautiful world from a very huge distance ? i should throw it ? :p
20:41 nore nrzkt: well, you can use full view range I guess
20:41 Fixer celeron55, besides that two problems I've noticed another with thin(?) walls with glass: https://imgur.com/a/IOSaE
20:41 celeron55 the point of farmap is that it gives environmental awarenss
20:41 celeron55 awareness*
20:42 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/9q6TQxL.png
20:42 Fixer awareness like this
20:42 celeron55 you can look at the distance in glorious 60fps and see a mountain and decide to either walk there or avoid it
20:42 celeron55 without farmap, that's simply not possible, at all
20:42 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/fhL1yrb.png
20:42 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/OqkH9n8.png this one is cool
20:42 nrzkt celeron55, what method is used by minecraft then ?
20:43 celeron55 for someone who just wants to builds objects or tinker with mesecons, farmap gives nothing at all and they should keep it disabled
20:43 Fixer nrzkt, it does not use anything iirc, just far range
20:43 nrzkt Fixer, the main problem is the texture, this doesn't reflect reality, texture is repeated on a single node as i see
20:43 celeron55 build*
20:44 celeron55 i stopped running minecraft when it stopped wanting to run on my computer some years ago
20:44 kilbith Q: it's /far/ map, then why is the map cubification so close ?
20:44 Fixer nrzkt, with vbo + superflous PR (needs few bug fixes) and celerons farmap PR you will be possible to play on LARGE v_range
20:44 Fixer like 100 and beyond
20:44 Fixer on simpler server beyond 200
20:44 Fixer so will be same to minecraft far setting
20:45 sofar isn't minecrafts' max 12x32?
20:45 nrzkt Fixer we can already run 150 blocks and more on modern GPU, i do it since i have the VBO patch
20:45 celeron55 nrzkt: dunno; i'm working with what i have and i'm kind of incompetent in modern computer graphics, plus we're using irrlicht and so on
20:46 nrzkt celeron55, no problem with that for me :)
20:46 celeron55 nrzkt: i.e. do it better or don't complain
20:46 Fixer nrzkt, superflous shaders PR gives a very big fps boost for me, even bigger than vbo
20:46 Fixer at least for me
20:46 nrzkt Fixer, i didn't notice that because i already done the modification before on my client, but yes it was an improvement. VBO does much more on my GCN AMD card
20:47 nrzkt ~15 FPS more, i increased max range from 110 to 170
20:47 Fixer paramat, down side of merging it after release is map sending code is server side, so a lot of server will not use it :(
20:47 nrzkt celeron55, i'm not very familiar with renderers :) i only said eyes are agressed by texture iregularity :p
20:48 Fixer nrzkt, yes, strangely i have AMD/ATI too, but vbo gives modest boost while superfl thing is a beast! other people reported a big increase with vbo on
20:48 celeron55 kilbith: because minetest kind of sucks and is often unable to get the exact rendering far enough for your taste
20:48 celeron55 kilbith: due to various factors
20:48 celeron55 the vbo patch is already in, right?
20:48 Fixer yes
20:48 nrzkt Fixer, which card do you have ?
20:48 Fixer hd 6870
20:49 nrzkt okay, i have the first GCN 7970, maybe this is why i have more improvements :)
20:49 Fixer superfl pr is this #3770
20:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3770 -- Fix superflous shader setting updates by ShadowNinja
20:56 sofar whoops, game frozen with farmap
20:56 sofar celeron55: second time I've seen it freeze now
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21:02 celeron55 well
21:04 celeron55 that's not useful unless you get a backtrace because it never freezes for me
21:04 sofar running with gdb now
21:05 sofar see if I can catch it
21:05 sofar I love how farmap continues to load far block
21:05 sofar after a while it's got everything loaded
21:05 sofar what is the scale of far_map_far_weight?
21:05 sofar I set it to 16, lol
21:06 celeron55 scale?
21:08 sofar what does the number mean?
21:09 celeron55 16 will make the server send farmap stuff very very eagerly
21:09 celeron55 you'll get almost no mapblocks
21:09 celeron55 it's documented, just read the doc
21:10 celeron55 it's a priorization factor
21:10 celeron55 mapblocks and farblocks are in the same priorization system with farblock distances divided by that number
21:15 paramat i've just noticed farmap changing to ultra-low res at 1000 nodes, too close for such low res cubes
21:16 paramat i'll comment in PR
21:18 celeron55 oh that... yeah
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21:47 Fixer changing inventory page on vanessas creative is 2-4 sec drawtime
21:50 nore Fixer: only on first time you see a new inventory page, or on the others as well?
21:50 Fixer each page for the first time
21:51 Fixer 26 pages :S
21:51 nore hm, it has been like this for a looooong time :/
21:51 Fixer on that fancy inventory plus panel iirc
21:51 nore that's because preload_item_visuals is disabled
21:51 nore so client sees that it needs the textures late
21:52 nore I actually don't know how this could be fixed
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21:57 sofar nore: care to +1 game#911 now?
21:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/911 -- Allow both sides of the bed to be digged up. by sofar
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22:03 bobomb does anyone want to help with writing a few lua modding functions into minetest core to allow using irrlicht IImage methods?
22:05 sofar I wouldn't even know what IImage is, maybe some more info is needed?
22:05 bobomb it would be very simple, using only IImageLoader::loadImage() and IImage::getPixel()
22:05 bobomb IImage is an irrlicht class
22:05 sofar what would the functionality be?
22:05 bobomb the idea is that mods need access to core image handling functionality
22:06 bobomb https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&amp;​t=14164&amp;sid=904c7853f63c27485fd4b14327ce5cae
22:06 sofar mods reading textures?
22:06 bobomb pixel access to images that are not necessarily textures
22:06 bobomb pixel to voxel conversion
22:07 bobomb mods need to be able to load images and read pixel rgb values.
22:07 sofar ok, I see. I'd make a lua method that returns an object handle that has the appropriate methods to read pixels by coordinates
22:07 sofar but I have no idea how to do such a thing :)
22:08 bobomb some mods might want pixel_set and imageWrite functionality too but that is less important
22:08 sofar but, the images would be in the mods path to begin with
22:08 bobomb yes
22:08 bobomb or wherever...
22:08 sofar so it's kind of a dev type of thing only
22:09 sofar unless you're going to write world map tiles for some external website?
22:09 sofar exporting seems like a much better use case than importing
22:09 bobomb no, not write, read from heightmaps etc for mapgen mods
22:09 bobomb see the forum link above
22:09 nrzkt bobomb, don't forget lua is server side mainly
22:09 sofar yeah, that's a one time conversion process
22:09 sofar image converted? problem solved!
22:09 nrzkt irrlicht images are not transfered to clients if generated server side
22:09 sofar world map tile export is a continuous problem
22:10 sofar it's never done, always changes
22:10 bobomb this is server side
22:10 bobomb for mapgen mods
22:10 bobomb more interested in import
22:10 bobomb all we are looking for is to eliminate reliance on lua-libs for image handling
22:10 sofar I'm saying, use export as your motivation, it's a far better excuse :)
22:11 bobomb ok that too then =)
22:11 bobomb i want to make a camera tool
22:13 bobomb theoretically i think i know what needs to go where but would like help from someone who works on core regularly and who is versed in exposing functionality to the lua modding api
22:13 bobomb celeron55 says it is a valid use case and would be included in core if it is kept neat and simple and doesn't attempt to become a paint program
22:14 bobomb as for export it would be cool to take a worldedit volume and export it as a heightmap image (and a biome image)
22:15 bobomb but that is only useful if import is already implemented...
22:15 bobomb mods like realterrain and imageloader are the prime beneficiaries of this
22:15 bobomb any takers?
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22:52 sofar celeron55: farmap together with a focal blur could work well (the stuff from RBA's branch)
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